Former Vice President Mike Pence On The Brian Kilmeade Show

Former Vice President Mike Pence joined Brian Kilmeade to discuss testifying before the special council investigating former President Donald Trump. Pence also spoke about being open to a 15 week national ban on abortion, running for president and the First Republic Bank collapse

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Rough transcript

Brian Kilmeade [00:00:00] were back with us right now is and by the way. Thanks so much for joining us on this Tuesday, the 48th vice president, United States Mike Pence, who in a matter of weeks is more than likely going to be declaring his candidacy for the presidency against the GOP nomination. Mr. Vice President, welcome back.

MIKE PENCE [00:00:16] Great to be back, Brian. Thanks for having me on.

Brian Kilmeade [00:00:18] First off, there’s so much going on right now. I don’t know where to start. First off, on the economy, it looks like the Fed’s going to raise rates despite the fact that our second biggest bank collapse just took place and JPMorgan Chase just did the purchase. Your thoughts?

MIKE PENCE [00:00:34] Yes. Second biggest ever in history. Third bank failure in as many months. It is a testament to the failed economic policies of the Biden administration. And it’s why we need change in America in 18 months. I mean, look, you can’t borrow and spend and bail your way back to a growing economy. But from the outset of this administration, that’s exactly what they’ve been trying to do. They in tax increases on top of that. But look, this latest this latest bank rescue is just one more bank bailout. And, Brian, you and I have known each other a long time. I was in Congress during the Wall Street bailout. I helped lead the charge against it. Which bailouts are not the answer in a free market economy. We’ve got to let the let the market ebb and flow and hold people accountable. But more than anything else, I just I see it all as an indictment of the economic policies of this administration.

Brian Kilmeade [00:01:29] But you know what, Mr. Vice President? How is it.

MIKE PENCE [00:01:32] That’s hurting families and institutions?

Brian Kilmeade [00:01:34] So you think it’s inflation along with the spending, so the inflation stays high, interest rates go up to try to tame the inflation and the banks are going up. Oh, I’m upside down in this, but they should be knowing this. So it’s the hard thing with conservatives especially who pride themselves on letting business be business. And you don’t want to put your hand on their tail, but you just count on people being responsible. I mean, these banks had to know they were upside down. They know where the interest rates are trending. They know inflation is not transitory. They all picked that up already. It’s been two years now. So how do they just sit there and wait for an implosion?

MIKE PENCE [00:02:13] Well, everybody I’ve talked to have said that, you know, because of the highest inflation in 40 years, Brian, that we’re likely headed to a recession. I’ve talked to I was out in Utah the other day. I was talking to some people very involved in real estate out there. They said real estate out that way is already in a recession, has been for.

Brian Kilmeade [00:02:30] Commercial or residential.

MIKE PENCE [00:02:31] But look, come on, let’s let’s let’s let’s recognize the fact that, look, the inflation took off like a jackrabbit when Joe Biden takes office and the Democrats in the House and Senate pass on a party line vote, $1.9 trillion in completely unnecessary spending. That’s what lit the pilot light on this inflation. And the economy was getting back on its feet in the wake of COVID. It really was, Brian. And then and then this this administration comes in does what Democrats always do, and that is spend money we don’t have and that we don’t need to spend. And and they said as they set in motion. This is the war on energy. Let’s not leave that out. Yeah. I mean, the Biden administration has declared a war on energy from go, and that drove up gasoline prices through the roof in their first year in office. It leveled off a little bit, but still way too high. And all of that is creating the conditions where you’re seeing these financial institutions fail, I believe. But all roads lead back to the Biden administration.

Brian Kilmeade [00:03:35] As vice president, me ask in this scenario. So you see these people that put their money in First Republic Bank and they say to themselves, wait a second, I’m seeing the you know, 49% of the people have withdrawn their they’re starting to believe that’s going to collapse. And then when it’s about to collapse, the government comes in and forces this sale. The FDIC takes over and they and they offer it up and JPMorgan Chase takes it for $10.6 billion. They take $173 billion in loans and $92 billion in deposits. So if we’re a free market, laissez faire approach, it do you will let that bank collapse and let these people lose their money. And that’s the whole thing. And or do you that’s free market. But if people lose their money, you say to yourself, where was the oversight? Why couldn’t you step in? Rock on says, just back it up, fix it, get these people their money back. Other free marketers say, I got a problem with that. Where do you stand?

MIKE PENCE [00:04:31] Well, look, there’s an old rule in economics. I heard long ago from my mentor, Jack Kemp. He said, What you subsidize, you get more of what you tax, you get less of. I mean, we are subsidizing irresponsible behavior in the marketplace every time we do a bailout. It’s just a fact. And there are alternatives to this, like the FDIC, you know, essentially guaranteed $13 billion to make that deal happen with First Republic and Jp morgan. And and that’s that’s $13 billion, they say. Well, comes from fees on banks. And what look, it comes from the American people. And I think at the end of the day, there are just like in the savings and loan crisis, which happened a thousand years ago around 1980, they did they did a work out. Institution by institution. They you know, they protected, you know, account holders and and saw America through that for pennies on the dollar that we did in the Wall Street bailout or what they’re doing now. My concern as a as a free market conservative is just the more of these bailouts that just happen as soon as you see a major institution collapse. The more we say there are there are some banks that are too big to fail, the more likely it is that more will happen. But also there’s going to be some banks out there that are too small to save.

Brian Kilmeade [00:05:52] Yes, So interesting because there’s a couple of things going on. We know, by the way, that all that TARP money got paid back so end up being a decent investment. Nobody knew what to do and we knew what a colossal failure was. A lot of those policies were in place during the Clinton administration when they were there were these banks were incentivized to give people unqualified loans for interest rates that were floating and for deposits that didn’t really have to happen and for houses they couldn’t afford. So we watched the ripple effect around the country, around the world, and then government stepped in. So when you look at the fact that, for example, we don’t know the difference what happened with First Republic, but with the Silicon Valley Bank, we had the CEO there and other executives cashing out right before the whole thing collapsed. And we had the CEO sitting on the San Francisco board on oversight. And I’m say to myself, how does this it’s almost as if they’re laughing at the American consumer. They’re saying Americans are such morons, we could do anything we want. They still have their money. Are you for a clawback for getting those for those selloffs right before the collapse and maybe the incentives and bonuses that were issued?

MIKE PENCE [00:07:00] Well, I’m for that a whole lot more than I am for bailouts. But, you know, let the top executives walk out the door while the ship is sinking and then stick taxpayers with the bill. But look, you know that bank as well. Also, again, you know, the comment you just made a few minutes ago was very I hope your listeners know how really bright and insightful Brian KILMEADE is because it’s government intervention that set into motion the mortgage crisis to begin with. You’re 1,000% right. And there’s also an argument that S&P on the West Coast was taking advantage of all this green money and these climate change bills coming out of Washington. That kind of betting on all these very speculative, you know, business deals that are built on green energy and that combined with higher interest rates is what we’re out of there. But we just ought to let will let business do business. I believe in limited government. We have to let the free market thrive and free enterprise thrive. That that’s how we created the most prosperous nation on earth.

Brian Kilmeade [00:08:04] So June 1st, Jen Yellen says, I looked at the receipts. Tax receipts are down. Will Looks like we’re going to hit the debt ceiling of over $30 trillion. And now Kevin McCarthy, who passed through the House a deal that would be you want to raise the debt ceiling, pass this package through in 40 pages. Now all of a sudden, the president called up and said all the leaders reported to the White house May 9th. How how would you run that meeting and would you agree to some type of package or would you do what Donald Trump did and you did and say, just raise the debt ceiling, This is money that is owed. We have to pay our bills.

MIKE PENCE [00:08:41] Well, first off, let me let me commend Speaker Kevin McCarthy and the House Republicans. They got a four seat majority. They found a way to get a bill that makes a down payment on fiscal responsibility, pass and raises the debt ceiling. And that is commendable. And as I talk to members of Congress going into that vote, not everybody liked every bit of it. Right. But I said, look, the Biden administration made it clear until the House Republicans passed the bill, Joe Biden was just going to fold his arms and say, I’m not doing anything. So essentially, House Republicans have put Kevin McCarthy at the table. I think he’s got to stand firm with a $32 trillion national debt. He’s got to stand firm for these initial steps back toward fiscal responsibility is a modest beginning, but it’s an important beginning. And I think Kevin’s got all the leverage on his side. And I think at the end of the day, the fact that the president called him yesterday signals that the stand that Republicans are taking is beginning to carry the day.

Brian Kilmeade [00:09:46] You know, it’s the one thing that I think unfair attacks from Republican to Republican, as people say, well, Donald Trump didn’t finish the wall and there was so much there was spending. You guys add to the deficit. Well, that’s true to a respect. But in the end, it was Congress adding money during the pandemic to tell everyone to go home for two and a half weeks. And when you guys asked for money, they had Congress actually added more to it. Also, it was the Republican House that didn’t give you money for the wall. And then ultimately you guys repurposed money from the Defense Department under much criticism to do it. So when Republicans are criticizing that, I personally think that’s unfair.

MIKE PENCE [00:10:26] Well, look, I look at the spending record of the Trump administration. And I would tell you in the early going, we had a lot of catching up to do on military spending and essentially been flat lined. And there had been reckless budget cuts to our defense spending during the eight years of the Obama administration. So we had to make historic investments in our military, which the American people understand more today with with war in Eastern Europe and China, menacing of the Asia Pacific and frankly, in COVID. Of course, Congress spent more than we asked. But in my judgment, you know, this is what government is for. When the roof falls in with a hundred year pandemic hits, that’s when you need to be there for families and businesses and create a backstop. But I’ll be the first to stipulate that in the in the in between those things, Brian, we didn’t do as good a job as we should, reining in spending and as I’ve said many times. So I believe that.

Brian Kilmeade [00:11:27] You think you could have done a better job.

MIKE PENCE [00:11:29] I think we could have done a better job on domestic spending. And I also believe that we could have done a better job engaging the American public on the need for common sense and compassionate reform of entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. I think we could we could preserve that program for everyone that’s in it for anyone that’s going to retire in 25 years. But for Americans under the age of 40, I thought we should have started that conversation. We didn’t. But whatever the future holds for me and my family will be in that discussion because our our kids and grandkids deserve better.

Brian Kilmeade [00:12:03] Well, it’s interesting. So you did say we and you believe that’s an interesting approach to say things you would be doing different. So everybody knows you can talk in detail about it, but you went behind closed doors with this this Jack Smith, who’s been very, very dogged in doing this investigation to January six, as well as the Mar a Lago papers. One of the things that Newsweek speculated. That would be damning on Donald Trump is a passage in your book When you recount that Donald Trump looked at you when in which he was trying to get you to say to not declare and certify the election, you said, I have no choice. He said, The problem with you, Mike, is you’re too honest. Could you tell me if that line was played back to you behind closed doors? And did I get that right? Is that was that how that conversation went?

MIKE PENCE [00:12:51] That’s pretty much how the conversation went. But I would tell you, I’m really not at liberty to talk about what took place, you know, in the in the proceedings, you know, over the course of the past week. But what I can tell you is that people can be confident that the story that I have told to you, the story that I have told in innumerable interviews and of course, in the face of my part, memoir is the same story that I would tell in that setting. It’s truth. And and I truly do believe at the end of the day, the American people can judge those facts for themselves. But I have to tell you somewhere and as I traveled around the country last week, I was in Iowa, Utah and North Carolina that nobody’s talking about this stuff. I think the Biden administration has weakened America at home and abroad. Everywhere I go, the American people and Republicans especially are focused on the future and how we solve these problems.

Brian Kilmeade [00:13:48] And having said that, Mr. Vice President, I agree with you because I get to travel a lot and talk to people to not like you could use this fresh off a book tour. But were you surprised that the former president opened up his rally with January 6th?

MIKE PENCE [00:14:02] Yeah, I didn’t see the rally, so I can’t say whether I was surprised or not surprised. But look, it’s a free country. The president and I have a strong difference of opinion about my duties and what the Constitution required me that day. But as I’ve said many times, I’ll always believe that by God’s grace that we did our duty that day to support and defend the Constitution and ensure the peaceful transfer of power.

Brian Kilmeade [00:14:26] So Glenn Youngkin announced yesterday he’s not getting in the race, Mike. Mike Pompeo two weeks ago said he’s not getting in the race. They were both in single digits. Tim Scott’s about to get in May 22nd. You’re in single digits. Nikki Haley’s in single digits. Tim Scott to single digits. Will that would the polling affect your decision as the former president and your running mate? Kim has a commanding lead in these polls. He’s over 50%. Will that affect your decision?

MIKE PENCE [00:14:56] Well, what I can tell you is I don’t have anything to announce today. But the the way Karen and I have always made decisions over the last 20 years, during my years in Congress, my years as governor and my years as vice president is just simply out of a sense of calling. And I must tell you, as we look at the challenges facing America today and the failed policies of this administration, we’re reflecting very deeply on what role we might play in helping to turn this country around. And I promise as soon as we have something to announce, Brian, I’ll be I’ll be right back on the Brian KILMEADE Show to talk about.

Brian Kilmeade [00:15:32] You know, I be honored and I just know you’d be a force and a great voice out there. Lastly, I know where you are. You’re solid pro-life and but America isn’t. It seems that they if they had their choice, over 60% would keep Roe v Wade intact. Do you have to give in to a 15 week ban in order to win over the country and win an election?

MIKE PENCE [00:15:57] Well, I’m pro-life. I don’t apologize for it. Thanks. Thanks for acknowledging that we’ve known each other a long time, I think. I think the the decision by the Supreme Court of the United States now almost a year ago gave the American people a new beginning for life. They return this question to the states and to the American people. And I can tell you for the rest of my life, I’ll be working to restore the sanctity of life at the center of American law. I’ll support efforts. I said about a week ago that if I ever had any duties in Washington, D.C., I’d certainly support a 15 with a ban. But I’ve supported measures all around the country.

Brian Kilmeade [00:16:36] Thanks, Mr. Vice President.