Rudy Giuliani, Attorney for President Trump and former Mayor of New York City, spoke with Brian Kilmeade about the latest on Bob Mueller's "useless" investigation, saying "if abided by the American rule of law then the president would be exonerated.] Giuliani also mentioned how Mueller's press conference yesterday made him look like the Wizard of Oz, stumbling over his script and contradicting himself, a strong contrast from President Trump speaking to the press this morning, to which Giuliani said he had "never seen a president give a better press conference." Giuliani also confirmed that he spoke to President Trump yesterday after Mueller's press conference and he is a "fighter" who has been convinced from day one "that this thing is justifiably called a witch-hunt."
BRIAN KILMEADE: Joining us now is Rudy Giuliani. Rudy, you've been all over this case, you've read the whole Mueller report and I go down to this -- and I'm not the lawyer you are, I never will be. But he said, we had confidence that the president clearly -- if we had confidence -- he said confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. Could he easily have said, if we had the confidence that the president did commit a crime, we would have said so? And wouldn't have changed everything we're talking about today?
GIULIANI: Well, if he abided by the American rule of law, then the president would be exonerated. When I conclude as a prosecutor and I'm not confident that a person committed a crime, that's called exoneration. In order to charge a crime, you have to be convinced by a reasonable certainty that a person committed a crime.
If you're not, every rule I ever learned as a prosecutor -- and I did it a lot more than Mueller ever did, I tried a hell of a lot more cases and I'm a lot more experienced and a successful prosecutor then he's been his entire career -- so I don't take anything from Mueller. Always considered him a rather average assistant, and he showed it yesterday. It's disgraceful what the president (ph) let him get away with. Hes totally reversed the American rule of law; the English rule of law, the roman rule of law.
The person is innocent until proven guilty. That's not a slogan, it's not a joke, it's a basic fundamental of our Constitution, of the Magna Carta, of elemental fairness. If we did this to a terrorist, Nadler, Schiff and all those phonies would go crazy. We have to be convinced to a morrow certainty that the terrorist didn't commit a terrorist act in order not to put him in jail. How ridiculous is that?
KILMEADE: Hey Rudy, we don't get a chance -- it's been a while since I saw him testify because he get the respected two administrations as FBI director for his...
GIULIANI: I will sometimes tell you how ineffective an FBI director he was right after 9/11 when he wouldn't give the information about what was threatening New York and I had to get it out of the White House. And when he told me the FBI doesn't leak, and I said to him, neither does the NYPD, and by the way, I've been at this job a lot longer than you have, Bob, and don't tell me that crap.
KILMEADE: Well you guys in New York...
GIULIANI: I love the FBI, but don't tell me they don't leak. How come we heard over and over again that Donald Trump Jr. was going to be indicted. You think I leaked that? I think the guy who was stumbling and bumbling yesterday leaked that.
KILMEADE: So I've got to ask you that too. Is that the same guy you know, because not many people saw him talk before...
GIULIANI: Same guy I know...
KILMEADE: He looked scared, he looked old...
GIULIANI: ...Donald Trump. You want to know the secret about that guy? He appeared once to talk to me. One time, to me, Jane Raskin and Marty Raskin. Because he didn't know the case. You ask John Dowd (ph), and I'm telling you the truth, I saw him one time in a year. They wouldn't let him show up.
KILMEADE: So wait a second, is that why he won't testify? Because he knows that he'll be exposed?
GIULIANI: I dare him to testify. I'd love to see Meadows and Jordan cross examine him on when did he find out there was no collusion? Exactly why would you hire Andrew Weissmann, who is the most notorious and unethical prosecutor of the last 20 to 30 years? I'm not just saying that, the Justice Department has written that, judges have written that, every defense lawyer you'll meet will tell you that.
KILMEADE: So Rudy, so when you him - when you saw him speak yesterday -
GIULIANI: He took down Arthur Andersen, they all turned out to be innocent, innocent, and he lost jobs for 20,000 to 30,000 people. That's Andrew Weissmann, a decent prosecutor or a guy who's accomplished (ph) menace (ph) doesn't hire Andrew Weissmann.
KILMEADE: So a couple of things, I read the first part - all the first part of the investigation, because as an American, I don't care who's president. If I found out a candidate was colluding with another country and put us second, I'm off that train.
And this is what stuck out with me, I'm going to take an excerpt from a Russian oligarch who was being questioned, he said this. As soon as news broke that Trump had been elected president - president, Russian government officials and prominent Russian businessmen began trying to make end roads to the new administration.
They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the president elect. That according to Petr Aven of Alfa-Bank. He had interactions once a month with Vladimir Putin and they spoke about the difficulty - Putin spoke about the difficulty he faced with his government getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration.
So Vladimir Putin, with all this collusion and with the big Moscow hotel could not get a hold of anybody.
GIULIANI: Do you think - did you read that in the Mueller report?
KILMEADE: It's in the Mueller report.
GIULIANI: So how come that isn't emphasized, how does it - how does that not prove unequivocally that there's (ph) not just insufficient evidence of collusion, what a joke, but he had a seven month Peter Strzok counter intelligence investigation.
The end of that investigation was no evidence of collusion no there - there (ph) quote Strzok, and then they had the a summary (ph) to start a second investigation, that's Mueller's useless investigation, to find the same thing they found with wire taps, international investigation before.
The FBI has established two times there was no collusion. Do you think that might get you frustrated if you were an innocent man taking on the president of the United States and being charged with treason?
You think maybe you might get a little angry, and if you didn't, you think maybe you were kind of like about as dead as Mueller is? I mean that guy was reading yesterday. I don't read.
I speak. I didn't see Donald Trump reading today when he took a half hour with the press, I saw that guy's eyes down reading the script sometimes stumbling. Hey Bob, you're not the wizard of Oz, come from behind the curtain, go in front of the House and Senate and defend your idiotic report and defend your change in (ph) the burden of proof.
That report as Alan Dershowitz has said is a disgrace.
KILMEADE: Right. Mr. Mayor, did you speak to the president - did you speak to the president yesterday?
GIULIANI: Of course I did.
KILMEADE: And he seemed somewhat serene today and fired up, almost like when the first report came out and the first summary was released. Is there anything you can tell our listeners about his reaction?
GIULIANI: The president of the United States, thank god for America, is a fighter. He doesn't let you punch him in the face or even throw a jab without hitting you back a lot harder.
He is - he has been convinced, and I have from the day I entered this case and the first time I met with Mueller that this thing is justifiably called a witch hunt. They knew a long time ago this wasn't true.
Not when Mueller found out, when Peter Strzok found out it was not true. Peter Strzok led the investigation for Mueller. Mueller only fired him because he had to. But he kept Weissman, Weissman's just as bad as Peter Strzok.
KILMEADE: All right.
GIULIANI: Weissman's the architect of all these crazy theories of crimes of putting people in solitary confinement, raiding their homes, this is McCarthy like and worse tactics, and then to reverse the burden of proof, so in other words Donald Trump is the only person in America who has to prove unequivocally that he's completely 100 percent innocent, which is almost impossible to prove because you can't prove a negative.
KILMEADE: Mr. Mayor -
GIULIANI: And that's why our founding fathers had a lot more wisdom than that stumbler and bumbler who was speaking yesterday.
KILMEADE: Mr. Mayor, I know you have the gloves off now, so does the president on what you think of Mueller but I want you to hear this. This is what has to be resolved, I think, and the Attorney General has to speak up. The Attorney General said he asked the -- the -- the -- Robert Mueller three times one thing, Mueller had a different story now. Listen to the -- listen to these two debate.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: There was no evidence of the Trump campaign collusion with the Russian governments hacking.
ROBERT MUELLER, SPECIAL COUNSEL: There was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy.
BARR: The evidence devolved by the Special Counsel is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction of justice offence.
MUELLER: If we had had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the President did commit a crime.
MALE: Special Counsel Mueller stated three times to us in that meeting in response to our questioning that he emphatically was not saying that but for the OLC opinion he would have found obstruction.
MUELLER: Under long standing department policy, a president can not be charged with a federal crime while he is in office.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KILMEADE: That's the difference, the last part's the difference, Mr. Mayor. What is the -- Mueller tells -- tells Rosenstein and Barr one thing, but he just told America something else, the only reason we didn't indict him is because you can't indict a sitting president and he told Barr three times that wasn't the only reason. What -- how do you -- how do you solve this for us?
GIULIANI: Well, I'd solve it this way. Barr, we can see testify, is clear, precise, answers the questions directly. Mueller is completely stumbling, bumbling, and contradicts himself, by the way. And he has a history of leaking, hiring unethical prosecutors -- John Dowd told me that Mueller lied to him. So, I have to bet on Barr and Rosenstein telling the truth. And I have to believe that Mueller is doing everything he can to suck up to the Democrats who are very disappointed that he wasn't able to find evidence of collusion or obstruction.
By the way, when he said -- that sound byte where he said we could not come to the conclusion that he committed a crime, that's the end of the case, that's called exoneration, my friend. You see, for a (ph) prosecutor, and he was never a particularly good one, however I think a lot of that Whitey Bulger stuff happened under him -- under him.
GIULIANI: He was a pretty darn average prosecutor. Try to find out how many cases he tried. Not nearly as many as John Dowd and me.
KILMEADE: Well, and he actually -- yes he thought (ph) -- I said he put gasoline all over Washington D.C. and then threw a match and then left the building. And now this story is going to last another year.
GIULIANI: It's not -- this is not -- you know -- it is not the same thing they'd amount to be (ph) at best he's the Wizard of Oz. He hid behind a curtain after he got embarrassed on our first week (ph), he never reappeared, and every time we'd talk to him they'd say we have to take it to Bob, we have to take it to Bob. The joke was, if he's awake.
KILMEADE: Wow. Rudy you're fired up today. Maybe it's because Yankees won 7-0 last night -- GIULIANI: I don't (inaudible) I just want phonies (ph), Republican, Democrat, independent, you're not my friends, I don't like phonies, the most (ph) important thing, they're not the friend of the American people.
The President of the United States did a press conference today. I've never seen a president give a better press conference than that. He wasn't reading notes like Mueller, he didn't refuse to take questions. When did I ever refuse to take questions?
GIULIANI: You know why?
KILMEADE: And neither has the President.
GIULIANI: Because I'm telling the truth and I can defend myself.
KILMEADE: And you're a big help to me because you define -- you help the show. Mr. Mayor, thanks so much for your --
GIULIANI: OK Bob, now go get questioned.
KILMEADE: Thank you.
GIULIANI: I challenge you.
KILMEADE: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. He's a big Yankee fan, he's also very happy about that. This is the Biran Kilmeade show, that was Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the President's lead attorney.