Rudy Giuliani, Attorney for President Trump and former Mayor of New York City, spoke with Brian Kilmeade about the areas where he believes Michael Cohen perjured himself to Congress, why he doesn't buy Cohen saying Roger Stone called President Trump to tell him that Julian Assange said that there would be a massive email dump that would damage Hillary Clinton, not being worried about the Southern District of New York's investigation into the President, if he expects the Mueller Report will be released next week and why he thought reports that Jared Kushner's security clearance being held up was unfair.
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX RADIO ANCHOR: Joining us now is the President of the United States personal attorney and good friend Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor welcome back.
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well Brian it's always a pleasure, how are you?
KILMEADE: I wanted to start where I saw you tweeted. That was a lie, right?
GIULIANI: Well that one is about as provable perjury I'd ever seen. So far if you just look online there are about eight, no five witnesses and then of course the tape with Cuomo. And I have to tell you I don't want to be a witness but he told me the same thing and he even complained to me that he can get a job. But it was well known, I mean I not only heard it from him, I heard it from other people who secondarily would say and then of course there was this talk that he was very upset when he didn't get one.
KILMEADE: So, with the whole Stormy Daniels situation and the payments and the checks as exhibit A for $35,000 in a series of payments. Legal experts have said this is very problematic because he was the one receiving the checks and Donald Trump did sign at least one of them.
GIULIANI: Well you know it really isn't because they don't have any sense of history. Look, we brought all that out ten months ago, there's nothing new in what he said. We brought out ten months ago about that he made the payments, it's our view of it that the President didn't know about it at the time. And then the President when he found out about it made arrangements for reimbursement. Now, it's not a campaign contribution Brian because one of the purposes of it was the shield Melania, his wife and his family, from the bad publicity. And he himself acknowledged that twice when he said the hardest thing was when he had to go lie to Melania. So, you can go back to girly(ph) explanations on a tape of which there are many, he said he made those payments primarily for a personal purpose. So, if you go back to some of the other cases that exist, if I make a so called "campaign expense," one of the reasons for it is personal and I would have made it anyway had I not been in a campaign and it's not a campaign contribution. That's clear, so the southern district is pursuing a faulty theory with regard to Cohen but he plead guilty to it, never tested. I really doubt they're going to use a questionable theory to pursue other people.
KILMEADE: Right. Andy McCarthy nodded in be the President all, I think he's playing it pretty fair, but no one does know the southern district as you do. I think you brought him in, he says the problem with the Stormy Daniels thing is the stream of payments that wasn't disclosed.
GIULIANI: Well, he wouldn't have disclosed them if they weren't a campaign contribution. Andy who I love and I think is a great lawyer, I don't think he's done enough research on the interpretations of the campaign finance payment. The Edward's case is the main one but there are about five others. It's very simple, if - let's say I'm going for a debate and my political advisor says to me, you've got the worst suits in the world, you've got to buy a suit because you've got to look better on television. I go buy the suit, can I use campaign money for it? No I can't because I would have bought the suit anyway, I buy suits regularly anyway. So, if a woman comes to you and threatens to come out with a terrible story about you that can hurt you and let's say it's untrue but it can hurt you in the campaign and you know your wife and family are going to get very upset with you, they're going to get very angry at you, they're going to be very hurt and you pay her for both of those reasons, it's not a campaign. Think about this, if I were running for office I could pay off all my lawsuits with campaign funds. If I have four lawsuits against me I'd get the campaign to pay for all of it.
KILMEADE: Got you.
GIULIANI: So, this is a - let's call it a bull you know what theory, it will never fly, never, not worried about it.
KILMEADE: So, I don't know who wrote her questions but Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez went pretty quick on where this investigation is going. Let's listen to this exchange Mr. Mayor.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OSACIO-CORTEZ: To your knowledge did the President ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company?
OSACIO-CORTEZ: Who else knows that the President did this?
COHEN: Allen Weisselberg, Ron Lieberman and Matthew Calamari.
OSACIO-CORTEZ: And where would the committee find more information on this? Do you think we need to review his financial statements and his tax returns in order to compare them?
COHEN: Yes, and you'd find it at the Trump Org.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILMEADE: So, he's basically saying the CFO's going to come in there and these other people who I have never met are also going to come in there to try to explore whether he did these things. Mr. Mayor your reaction.
GIULIANI: My reaction is that's about as true as he wasn't asking for a job, he didn't represent foreign governments, that's another area of really serious perjury. There are about five areas that Congressman Meadows and Congressman Jordan pointed out and their very, very powerful letter to the Attorney General referring it for criminal investigation. The man is not worth of beliefs and the reality is the Congresswoman is wrong too. If somebody makes an allegation that I did something wrong on my taxes, Congress can't investigate that, even if it's the President. The IRS has all ready gone over those taxes, if it is to be investigated a prosecutor has to investigate it. They're not a prosecutorial agency, they get taxes in order to make tax legislation, not to prosecute people for alleged tax crimes.
KILMEADE: Mr. Mayor, it sounds logically to me that Adam Schiff or Elijah Cummings should not be looking into the Trump Organization's practices. However, it sounds like they're going to subpoena the CFO to come up and these other names to come up.
GIULIANI: They haven't done it yet, so I'll have to give the President legal advice but I tell you as a legal expert, certainly would be my first instinct to resist all those. And say, if you want to do that, do what the Congressmen did. The two Congressmen referred Cohen for criminal prosecution, they didn't have Congress start the criminal prosecution, they have an idea of what Article I, II, and III of the Constitution say. So if Schiff and Cummings and all these others want something done about his taxes, should be referred to the justice department or the IRS, not Congress. But that's why the President, I know they get angry at him when he says this but that's why this is a witch hunt Brian. This is not anything like any investigation I've ever seen. This is like looking at man and saying, just take any man and say, I've got to search his whole life.
GIULIANI: I'm going to try and find something he did wrong, and so far they've been doing it to the tune of about $50 million and they haven't found in a good old New York word, bupkis.
KILMEADE: In the Mueller investigation but the southern district of New York has people who like the President, none of those concerned, like Chris Christie says I'm worried about the southern district of New York. Andy McCarthy said this whole is a side show, the real show is the southern district of New York. Now, is that where are you? Would you represent the President in that respect?
GIULIANI: Well of course, yes, I would. I know those cases really well, I do not think there is anything there to concern us. I mean, concern us when they come up with cockamamie theories we've got to deal with, like we had to deal with collusion. We've been dealing with collusion for two years, they did whole power intelligence investigation, a phony one, no evidence. The big news, the other day is, even Cohen came up with a good lie about collusion. Don't you think if he could come up with a lie he could of told he would?
GIULIANI: The reason he can't do it is there's so much darn collaboration that there was no collision, that he would really get destroyed if he did that. So, he and his lawyer Lanny Davis was smart enough to stay away from that but they sure did a poor job of preparing him. Man he got ripped apart by Jordan and Meadows, man those guys, particularly when they caught him on the foreign governments that he was representing.
KILMEADE: Well you know what was explained to me by the Governor he said that republicans should have done a better job. When someone said oh he doesn't tell me directly, he has certain ways of talking in a secret code that any lawyer or anybody looking to defend the President would have said what the heck are you talking about, are you going to tell me the President has a secret code and we're supposed to go with this secret code.
GIULIANI: Chris is being a little bit harsh, I thought they got what I would consider, man I tried you know (inaudible) cases and I supervised thousands. I thought they got tremendous stuff out of him when they got him on those foreign and when they got him to not only say that he didn't look for a job but then to boast about it and expand on it and it's going to be hard for him to say I didn't understand the question.
GIULIANI: I know there are about three other areas that I can't reveal but they had their own purpose in mind and if they were working for me as a U.S. attorney I'd give them a promotion.
KILMEADE: OK, I want you to hear what he did say about Roger Stone, the President, and a speaker phone.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COHEN: Days before the democratic convention, I was in Mr. Trump's office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone. Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speaker phone, Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange. And that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that within a couple days there would be a massive dump of e-mails that would damage Hillary Clinton's campaign. Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect, wouldn't that be great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILMEADE: So, Graff (ph) transferred the call, she's probably going to get called up there, what is Rudy Giuliani as the President's attorney, what does that mean to you?
GIULIANI: Well, if I don't know what they're going to do I can't comment on that in detail, except to say two things. One, it sounds fishy to me because I believe Assange at least a week or two before that call had all ready announced that he was going to do it. So this big secret that he's talking about, was known to everybody. It sounds kind of ridiculous that Stone would call him up, by the way, that part has been investigated. Stone denies the call. So, it was kind of weird that Stone would call him up and say President I got unbelievable news for you. Assange is going to release, well he had said that 10 days before publically. I think this is another area where Cohen kind of tripped over himself, so there was no big surprise in that. I can't say anything more about it but I don't think it's going to turn out to mean anything.
KILMEADE: So, do you believe the Mueller investigation is going to be dropping next week?
GIULIANI: Only read the tea leaves (ph) Brian, I have no inside information that it is.
KILMEADE: I heard they cleaned out your offices, I heard they cleaned out their offices, the grand jury has not been convened, is that?
GIULIANI: All the same things that you've heard, I've heard because they all come from leaks as opposed to them calling us and telling us we're going to do it in ten days, we're going to do it tomorrow, we did it yesterday. As far as I know they could have submitted the report to the justice department all ready. Remember the justice department has to review it and then have some kind of internal discussion with them.
GIULIANI: I'd always expected that we would be notified when the justice department was ready to decide what are we going to do about it.
KILMEADE: Right. I would assume they'd call you. Mr. Mayor West the story in the New York Times say the President cleared Jared and Jared Kushner and his daughter of security clearance over the objections of Don McCann and General Kelly who was Chief of Staff at the time. What kind of - what do you think about this story and if memo's exist what do you do?
GIULIANI: I really don't know anything about it, I'm not involved - I wasn't involved in that, I mean Jared and Ivanka are good friends of mine and I thought the whole thing about holding up a security clearance, was to me, really unfair but beyond being a friend and knowing it from the outside, I don't know the details of it.
KILMEADE: OK, Mr. Mayor how do you feel right now about your client and his case?
GIULIANI: I thought Cohen really fell apart, I don't see how you can put that man on a witness stand and I think here's the irony of it. Lenny Davis and he brought him in there in part so he could reduce his sentence. Now he's looking at possibly two or three more criminal charges and spending more time in jail. That's a hell of an outcome.
GIULIANI: I mean those perjury prosecutions can't be ignored. One is provable by tape and the other is provable by document.
KILMEADE: Got you.
GIULIANI: Look what they did to Flynn.
KILMEADE: I hear you.
GIULIANI: Flynn gets prosecuted when the FBI doesn't think he's lying, this guy has lied to millions of people. And where's Cummings? Didn't Cummings say he would hang him or something if he lied?
GIULIANI: His first (inaudible), well right now he's going to be the last one, boy he went ahead once his witness starting lying.
KILMEADE: Mr. Mayor, I can't thank you enough for coming on.
GIULIANI: All right.
KILMEADE: This is what the countries talking about, they want your prospective, can't thank you enough.
GIULIANI: Thank you, bye bye.