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A video has been posted on YouTube that shows an anti-bullying activist delivering a Bible-bashing, profanity-laced speech to high school students attending a national journalism conference in Seattle. At one point he called Christian teenagers who walked out of the speech “pansy-assed.”
Dan Savage, the founder of the “It Gets Better” project was supposed to be delivering a speech on anti-bullying. But instead, teenagers attending the National High School Journalism Conference sponsored by the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association were subjected to a profanity-filled attack on the Bible.
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“We can learn to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about gay people — the same way we have learned to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstration about virginity about masturbation,” he told the young students. “We ignore bullshit in the Bible about all sorts of things.”
The video shows a number of teenagers walking out of the auditorium as he continued his attack on the Bible, calling it a “radically pro-slavery document.”
“We ignore what the Bible says about slavery because the Bible got slavery wrong,” Savage told the students. “Sam Harris in a ‘Letter to a Christian Nation’ points out that the Bible got the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced wrong – slavery. What are the odds that the Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? 100 percent.”
At no point did anyone try to interrupt or refute Savage’s allegations to the several thousand teenagers in attendance.
He also attacked the Republican Party — and specifically Callista Gingrich, the wife of Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich.
“The Bible says if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father’s doorstep and stoned to death,” he said. “Callista Gingrich still lives.”
His speech was interrupted by students cheering and howling.
“There is no effort to amend state constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding nights if they’re not virgins — at least not yet,” Savage said. “We don’t know where the GOP is going these days.”
“People are dying because people can’t clear this one last hurdle,” he said. “They can’t get past this one last thing in the Bible — about homosexuality.
At some point in Savage’s speech he addressed the young people who chose to walk out. What he said brought cheers and hollers from those that remained.
“You can tell the Bible guys in the hall they can come back now because I’m done beating up the Bible,” he said. “It’s funny as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-assed people react when you push back.’
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Typical foul mouth.
Typical foul mouth.
typical foul mouthed bully..it is outrageous.. at an anti bullying speech no less. Liberalism.. a mental illness. Just let them keep talking.. except to the young..
don't worry when his time comes he can explain his speech to god and god will not be impressed.
don't worry when his time comes he can explain his speech to god and god will not be impressed.
There you go. Its called live and let live. We can worry about our differences after we're all dead.
Amen
It's funny that people who bash the Bible for it's anti-homosexuality only look at Levitical law. Because of Christ's death, we are no longer under the law he gave in Exodus. But, anti-homosexual statements still show up in the Epistles in the New Testament, to the Gentiles in the early churches, who weren't under the law. And Christians should also point out that God totally demolished two cities for their sinfulness (including homosexuality) before the law was even written.
Biblical Christians should also point out that the Commandments and the Law are a means to point others to Jesus Christ, Who,as we know fulfilled the law and its requirements, so salvation is now by grace, not works. This guy is a hypocrite and obviously on a the fast track to hell, even he can be redeemed..no matter how much I'd like to push him over the cliff
Biblical Christians should also point out that the Commandments and the Law are a means to point others to Jesus Christ, Who,as we know fulfilled the law and its requirements, so salvation is now by grace, not works. This guy is a hypocrite and obviously on a the fast track to hell, even he can be redeemed..no matter how much I'd like to push him over the cliff
Linda Braine There you go! Jesus said "Love your enemies" and today's Christian says, "Sure, I'll do that by pushing him over a cliff!" You're not Christians, your a sanctimonious self-satisfied mob.
Linda Braine many many people have had deathbed conversions
Linda Braine You are exactly correct. People like to think of the Holy Bible as an "Idiot's Guide" to being a better person. It's not! The sole purpose of Scripture is to get people saved (by pointing to Jesus, the Savior and allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work). Are there things that can be used to rebuke and teach in the bible? Of course, but that is secondary to the purpose of Scripture.
It's funny that people who bash the Bible for it's anti-homosexuality only look at Levitical law. Because of Christ's death, we are no longer under the law he gave in Exodus. But, anti-homosexual statements still show up in the Epistles in the New Testament, to the Gentiles in the early churches, who weren't under the law. And Christians should also point out that God totally demolished two cities for their sinfulness (including homosexuality) before the law was even written.
The only interesting thing about this video is 1) that his cursing is only a description of his own cow pie, shabby, short sighted, humanistic theology and philosophy. 2) That some students were still smart enough to walk out. 3) That in America it's OK to bash Christians, Christianity, and their Holy Book the Bible, while it is never acceptable to do the same to Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, or people of other faiths, because that would be discrimination and a hate crime. Even where other religions require, for example, women to have their faces covered and to be treated less than human, this same speaker would never stand up in Islamic States and call their holy books or moral views "B…S…." It would also be 4) interesting to see what happened IF HE DID. So he stands here, using the freedoms that Christian America developed, defended, and fought and died for, to bad mouth the very foundation responsible for creating a society where he is free to do stand and do so. 5) That's also quite interesting. Smells like the dung is at his own feet if you ask me.
The only interesting thing about this video is 1) that his cursing is only a description of his own cow pie, shabby, short sighted, humanistic theology and philosophy. 2) That some students were still smart enough to walk out. 3) That in America it's OK to bash Christians, Christianity, and their Holy Book the Bible, while it is never acceptable to do the same to Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, or people of other faiths, because that would be discrimination and a hate crime. Even where other religions require, for example, women to have their faces covered and to be treated less than human, this same speaker would never stand up in Islamic States and call their holy books or moral views "B…S…." It would also be 4) interesting to see what happened IF HE DID. So he stands here, using the freedoms that Christian America developed, defended, and fought and died for, to bad mouth the very foundation responsible for creating a society where he is free to do stand and do so. 5) That's also quite interesting. Smells like the dung is at his own feet if you ask me.
"That in America it's OK to bash Christians, Christianity, and their Holy Book the Bible …"
Indeed this is correct: it is okay to bash Christians, Christianity and their Holy Book, because this is America. Just as its okay for Christians to bash gays and lesbians, and their marriages and their families and their children because "God told you to". But condemning someone because he is *not* a Christian, as you do in your comments, is not an acceptable political or social act, *also* because this is America. Bash him as a Christian for being a bad Christian. But for being a bad person because he's not a Christian and because Christians have tormented him and his family for decades … ?
Is all that text your comment jeff? Nicely said! All of this bashing is encouraging and growing a base of true, difficult, gettin ur hands dirty, humble, sacrificial love christianity in this country whose impact is already being felt, and we ain't seen nothing yet!
Bob Clinkert I was a bit afraid of how this argument may be viewed by many Bob. But I guess I couldn't keep my mouth shut. Just had to bash someone today… you know, that's what we Christians love doing
Bob Clinkert I was a bit afraid of how this argument may be viewed by many Bob. But I guess I couldn't keep my mouth shut. Just had to bash someone today… you know, that's what we Christians love doing
Jeff Pessina Yah, "love your enemy" and all that is so 3rd Century.
Jeff Pessina Yah, "love your enemy" and all that is so 3rd Century.
Except that Dan Savage speaks out against Islam all the time.
Except that Dan Savage speaks out against Islam all the time.
With chuck colson gone we need others to step up and defend the faith. Defense does not have to mean bashing.
With chuck colson gone we need others to step up and defend the faith. Defense does not have to mean bashing.
Jimmy Cline
POST A LINK. LIAR. This homo doesn't talk about ISLAM at least not with the profanity he reserves for Christians. Typical loose anus filth.
Jimmy Cline Yeah, in a Christian country. Let's see him try in the middle east. He hides behind freedoms established by Christianity founded country to bully and bash others, go try it in an Islamic founded country then get back with us. He attacks Christianity because it what America is founded on and what restricts is deviant freedoms he seeks…
Heywood Jablueme sorry but we are not a Christian country, we might be a country with a lot of Christians but that is not the same.
You might want to read the Treaty of Tripoli.
Heywood Jablueme we are not a Christian country, we never have been, you might want to read the Constitution.
Jimmy Cline sorry you wrong. founders where of juedo-christianity. Thanksgiving is religious holiday(just look up George Washington's essay on it), God is on money and in Pledge of Allegiance just to name a few. Just because you want to deny history doesn't make it true.
Jimmy Cline so tell me Jimmy what's the Constitution say about religion…
Heywood Jablueme the Constitution states three things. There can be no religious test to hold any office, that the government can not establish a religion and that people can practice their religion without interference of the government.
Heywood Jablueme have you read the Treaty of Tripoli, you are the one deny history. God was put in the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s, and on the money from the last 1910s to the 1950s. Have you not studied your history?
As for George Washington's essay, it is not a legal document, the Constitution and Treaty of Tripoli are.
Jimmy Cline essay was written in making Thanksgiving national holiday. So, you are denying the forefathers were Christians? The ones that wrote the Constitution Christians and people of God, that 6 of original 13 States used to have state-supported churches and that the ten commandments the bases of laws (hence why used to find them in many court houses), just to name a few. At least you didn't run with that diluted notion of "separation of church and state" argument. Yep God was added in 1950s, but you for got to mention it was composed by a Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy(Baptist pastor), nice omission on your part. Oh and Christian Socialist beliefs are based on New and Old Testament. Like I said before, just because you choose to deny history doesn't mean it's changed to fit your new delusional beliefs. Also, G. Washington's response to the resolution of Thanksgiving being passed was a Proclamation by a Sitting President so it is a legal document like Emancipation Proclamation by Lincoln. You and your half truths/lies lose again. Enjoy your life done here proving you wrong…
Jimmy Cline He does ?LINK PLZ
The unfortunate thing about this whole discussion is that as soon as an individual stands up & says he/she disagrees with gay marriage or is not in favor of the homosexual lifestyle , that person is branded a homophobe . We are not allowed to have our own opinions without being pilloried by the far left or the gay rights lobbyists. And if that person is a Christian , watch out for the vitriol !!! The Bible talks about homosexuality in the same light as it talks about pre-marital sex & extra- marital sex . In my opinion , the Bible says it is wrong . That is what I believe !! The bigger question here is , why are the people who don't believe that trying to force me " to go along " with their beliefs ? That smacks of totalitarianism !!! Either we live in a free democratic society or we don't – we can't have it both ways !! In a democratic society , the majority rules – not the minority !! And in North America , it still appears that the majority are opposed to gay marriage . It would be quite interesting to see these gay rights activists & their supporters go to Saudi Arabia , Iran or any number of Muslim countries & start spewing their hatred for anyone that disagrees with them . I doubt they would be allowed to open their mouths !! In North America , they can – so , by the same token , should I not be allowed to publicly disagree with them ?
Heywood Jablueme there were founding fathers that were Christians, many of them in fact. There were some that were atheists.
By the Constitution the states were allowed to have state supported churches at that time, the 14th Amendment changed that.
It is funny that you have yet to present a "legal" document stating we are a Christian nation, I have provided one that states we are not. You keep bring up essays and papers and opinions, but not one of the is a legal document.
By the way it was Abraham Lincoln that proclaimed Thanksgiving as a nations holiday "as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens"
Dennis Willows, from my point of view, you have every right to disagree with gay marriage all you want. So don't get one. But why do you think that your beliefs should trump their rights?
The last poll I have seen says that 54% support gay marriage, last I heard that is a magority.
Are you saying that you want us to be more like Saudi Arabia and Iran?
You are disagree with gay marriage all you want, that is called freedom. But the same freedom should grant two consenting adults the right to marry if they wish.
Heywood Jablueme lets also not forget 16 of the founders were christian ministers LOL
homos lose their heads in muslim countries, and women are below dogs,then again our muslim president and his wife eat dogs
Jimmy Cline plese link proof to otherwise you are proved the LIAR i know you are
Jimmy Cline and in every stae were a gay judge/legislator passes a gay marriage law and the PEOPLE get to vote on tthe issue every time gay marriage is struck down LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Jimmy Cline
I dare Savage Dan to physically speak in front of an audience of muslims if he has the testicular fortitude. At least Christians dont behead people for being offended and attacked, and they sure dont declare a jihad.
I'm not sure what poll u are reading , Jimmy , but everyone I have read says that gay marriage is not acceptable to the majority. I also don't see gay marriage as a right installed in your constitution. You are missing the point anyway , my friend . The way you & people like you vilify us because of our beliefs is not acceptable. If & when gay marriage becomes the law of the land , I will accept the law but I will still not agree with it as is my right. And I will continue to fight against it but without vilifying those of you who think differently from me .
Jeff Pessina
My thoughts exactly. But I guess we have to be reminded that God gives man free will, and its how we use our wisdom in accordance with that free will that determines our fate. For some, they'll use free will in vial and vexing ways while others will use it to build up and not destroy. Faith will not be stifled or silenced.
Jimmy Cline
Its funny you speak about people having the right to practice their religion without interferance from the government when we had this incident with McKenyan trying to force a Catholic institution to go against its own beleifs in providing contraceptives to women in its employment. You can candy coat this all you want.
Heywood Jablueme the First Amendment of the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." So we are not a Christian (or any other religion) country. It does not matter if the founding fathers were Christian or not, that does not automatically make our country Christian.
Jeff Pessina I didn't see your post as bashing. Strong, yes, but not bashing, no. Simply truthful.
Thanks Nancy… I do come across stronger than I sometimes intend. But I'm not into bashing anyone. I just feel that Christian America has accepted people for years from all cultures and religions, and has opened it's doors, arms, and it's success to millions. That we have been a haven to those seeking asylum from despots and dictators. And though "we" have done many things wrong ourselves, and are not free from "sin"… we've basically championed freedom for people to live, do, believe as they want, and the pursuit of happiness. Nowadays there are strong moves to tell single out Christians as the problem with our culture and society. But the Christian problem is the very foundation of our culture, and it rightfully irritates many people when teachers bully and belittle Christians and the Christian faith.
Call it as you see it – Bullying/bashing whatever the name done to anyone is unacceptable, he will reap what he sows and God does know his heart and every hair on his head…..
So, he runs an anti-bullying organization, yet he is mocking, swearing at Christians and the GOP. Oh, the irony.
So, he runs an anti-bullying organization, yet he is mocking, swearing at Christians and the GOP. Oh, the irony.
Apparently irony doesn't exist for Dan Savage.
Methinks it does, and that you don't understand the meaning of the word "irony".
A speaker at an anti-bullying conference bullying Christians for their beliefs qualifies as irony.
Alex Kuhns Ah, its just that you don't understand the meaning of the word "bullying". Bullying, apparently, is when someone points out the flaws in your beliefs, after you've spent a lifetime berating him for his sexual orientation. Bravo! I believe this qualifies as "finding the mote in your brother's eye and missing the boulder in your own". Something, I think, that your god explicitly condemned.
Next, you can go off and berate Muslims for Sharia law while legislating 1st Century Christianity in the U.S. I guess this is Jesus 2012: now on steroids!
Calling someone's most deeply held beliefs "bullshit", then calling them "pansy-assed", crosses the line from rational debate into bullying, in my book. Thomas, you're assuming an awful lot about my beliefs based on one statement. I would like to say more, but I'm not about to repeat your mistake.
"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include VERBAL HARASSMENT, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, RELIGION, gender, sexuality, or ability (capitalization mine)." Given that Mr. Savage has a long record of Christian-bashing, and the fact that, as an invited speaker to a conference of HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, there is an obvious imbalance of power, his attack certainly qualifies by the dictionary definition of bullying.
Apparently irony doesn't exist for Dan Savage.
No one Christian is "living by the code of Leviticus". As Sean Pace pointed out below, we are no longer under the OT law. And the sin of homosexuality is still pointed out in NT teachings. He calls Christians hypocritical bigots, while speaking on bullying, yet bullies, and fails to acknowledge his own hypocritical bigotry. Because that's what they do. And the young, impressionable crowd before him that stayed, with no moral compass teaching them at home, applaud.
No one Christian is "living by the code of Leviticus". As Sean Pace pointed out below, we are no longer under the OT law. And the sin of homosexuality is still pointed out in NT teachings. He calls Christians hypocritical bigots, while speaking on bullying, yet bullies, and fails to acknowledge his own hypocritical bigotry. Because that's what they do. And the young, impressionable crowd before him that stayed, with no moral compass teaching them at home, applaud.
It's funny how it is ok that Christians can bash gays and other religions but when someone else bashes Christianity it is suddenly not ok. This country was founded on religious freedom and not just for Christians. And Islam does not actually treat their women like less than human. It is the culture in the area. Islam was actually one of the first religions to introduce the equality of all races and the equality of of all its believers it is the culture of the area that dehumanizes their women not their religion and in the Bible it actually implies that women are less than man since God took Eve from Adam and made her his "helper". Also just because someone is gay or has different religious views than you do that does not make them immoral or wrong. Every religion has its own answers and none of them are wrong so get off your high horse since Christians do the exact same thing to other people.
You obviously know very little about Christianity.
Lynn Bussing Or he knows a lot about Christianity and knows too many modern "Christians". Oh, and when you shove your religion in our face, don't pretend to be shocked when we spit it back at you.
I agree, you know very little about Christianity. And you probably know just as little about other faiths. You would undoubtedly say that Christians are "bashing" gays when we simply state our faith – that it is immoral according to our faith. That's bashing, right? But other faiths can say what they want and be praised, or at least defended on the basis of their longstanding "culture" (but of course, America get's no culture credits, only Islam and other faiths). And no-faiths can also bash and curse the Bible and Christians and be exempt from "bashing." The speaker in the video would not call Islam "Bullshit" in Saudi Arabia… but perhaps he should try?
Jacob, you begin with the assertion that, "It's funny how it is ok that Christians can bash gays.." and then proceed downhilll from there. Where in the bible does it command or approve of disparaging ANYONE? Lynn is right, you have no idea what you're talking about – just parrotting what you've heard other equally ignorant souls.
so it's ok to bully Christians at an anti bullying event? Liberal logic… is insanity!
Lynn Bussing The only thing you need to know about christianity is that it's the religion of ignorant, nomadic middle eastern tribesmen. A religion that they used to explain a world that was terrifying to them in their ignorance with comfortable lies about talking snakes, great floods, people living to 900 years of age, etcetera.
Jacob, you make the assertion that, "it is ok that Christians can bash gays.." and proceed downhill from there. Where in the New Testament does it command or approve of disparaging ANYONE? Lynn is right, you don't know what you're talking about, just parrotting what you've heard from other equally ignorant souls. Try actually reading the N.T. before you pretend to be an expert and judge those who do read it.
Jacob, ever read the Qur'an? Then you know not what you speak of and let others feed your feeble knowledge. Yeah, Jacob everyone is equal all cultures and animals are to human. Keep drinking the naive kool-aid.
Heywood Jablueme Is every argument you make based on false equivalencies?
John Block funny you like to cherry pick your arguments just justify false beliefs?
John Block Ah yes John. All of us Christians are ignorant. Not a smart intellectual christian out there anywhere? Only idiots would be Christian, right? And you are much too smart for that. So, if we want to be smart like you, and not ignorant, then we should be… uhm… what? Atheist? I assume then that ALL religious people of any faith who believe things you can't comprehend, are… ignorant?
Heywood Jablueme : Funny how you don't realise your response proves my assertion about you.
Jeff Pessina You keep using words like "belief" and "faith" and expect me to take you seriously? Try the words "Provable fact" and then we can talk. Also, your reading comprehension is terrible (but then again if it was any good you'd end up in my camp if you read the bible, so I'm unsurprised). Are you a middle eastern nomad as well? If not you are taking personal insult from my reference to the authors of the bible which is really stretching things a bit. If you really want to take it to the mat, I would like to clarify: You are most likely not ignorant, but are definitely very gullible by not dismissing a book that has talking snakes and 900 year old people as a ridiculous piece of antiquated fiction.
John Block I used "faith" in reference to variety of religious "faiths" John. You are hiding from the "fact" that by inference you pool Christians – who would dare believe such ridiculous, antiquated, fiction – into the followers of ignorant nomadic fools. Deny as you may… but you obviously think Christians are idiots in this respect; and if we were smart, we would dismiss the Bible as a joke like you. Sorry, but the FACT that the Bible is still BY FAR thee most read, printed, published, deliberated and debated book in history of the world stands up easily to the wise-guys who try to discredit and discount it.
John Block
If thats your take on it, then thats fine with me if it keeps your sanity intact.
Jeff Pessina Do not equate an accusation of lack of reading comprehension and gullibility with an accusation of stupidity or idiocy. I never said anything like that and you seem to think that you can put words in my mouth and make a fact out of something you falsely intuit. It is that exact mindset that makes you so sure you are right in your choice to be religious. Now will you get back to the topic? The only thing I accused you of was having limited reading comprehension and extreme gullibility and I will not be baited by you to go off subject with your strawman arguments.
Joel Rivera I'm not sure if you agree with me or not, but I honestly appreciate your not taking me to task with strawman arguments and logical fallcies like Mr. Pessina. His claims of the bibles popularity only make me think of the popularity of reality tv shows such as "Jersey Shore". Just because it's popular does not mean it's not stupid and offensive to a certain segment of the population. It's a ridiculous argument from a man who cannot stay on topic and has to grasp at straws.
The topic here is this, Mr. Pessina: Was the bible written by ignorant bronze age nomads or not? Answer this and maybe we can progress.
Jacob, you seem to be spewing what they taught you in a taxpayer funded, government run school.
John Block
I dont agree, but if what you beleive keeps your sanity intact then so be it. I will go so far as to say that the spirit of confusion is strong in these troubled times, more troubled than times past, with social, economic and political chaos reigning supreme and apathy running rampant. Whatever was wrong back then is the norm now, and is now acceptable because everyone is doing it. I expect many arguments like on this topic to get more passionate and face more attacks by skeptics as the days and months go by.
Heywood Jablueme actually I have read the Qu'ran and it does put forward the idea that everyone is equal and all its believers are equal. Have you actually read the Qu'ran?
Jacob Kaiser Yea. Everyone is equal. Right! But not equally respected or protected. Women are 2nd rate TO THE MAX. And just don't share any opposing views or faith in Islamic countries, lest you get killed. If you want to rant about stupid religions, you can do it in the protective space of free societies like USA, that had (most of them) a Christian background. So if you DARE to call Mohamed a nut, imposter, stupid, just be sure you do it from a safe and free society like America.
Joel Rivera I haven't read your posts and I'm sure I'll disagree with you, but I like people like you. Pessina took a comment that was simply a statement of fact and decided to build a whole demonic persona about me and then went on the offensive because the fact that my statement was correct made him doubt what he was thinking for a brief second and the dogmatic part of his mind decided that I should be punished for this. You're the kind of guy who doesn't make assumptions about what I mean and just goes on what I have stated. You're the kind of guy who I imagine would say "As long as you are not attacking me personally let's just agree to disagree. Now let's get a beer".
John Block No John. The Bible was not written by ignorant nomads. How unlearned are you? That is a ridiculous assumption. You think people 2000 years ago in and around Jerusalem were all ignorant nomadic idiots? No, you probably just think the ONES WHO WRITE THE BIBLE were. Right? And perhaps you think we are getting better as a world society of enlightened and happy loving people? Do some research John, the Bible is BY FAR AND AWAY the most printed published read book in the history of the planet. Always will be.
Jeff Pessina in the religion, everyone is equal. The governments and cultures on the other hand have a different viewpoint. Is a religion stupid for not having the same viewpoint as Christianity? I'm merely saying that people should not just expect it to be ok if they just bash other religions and suddenly become offended if someone bashes their own religion. This country was founded upon religious freedom and we should be tolerant and respect everyone instead of just calling their religion "stupid" or "wrong" since each religion has different answers to the same question.
Jacob Kaiser
Sorry about the mistype Jacob.
Jeff Pessina. Relative to the knowledge that we possess today they were ignorant and if you want me to think that you are as well, please deny this statement. I will dismiss you as the small fry that I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are and we can both get on with our lives. Another thing, you keep on trotting out logical fallacies and embarrass yourself by doing so. If you think that popularity makes for truth you might as well be a Jedi. It's a pathetic argument and to tell you the truth you're starting to make me laugh.
Heywood Jablueme: I keep reading your username and I just have to ask. How did it feel when Heywood Ja blew you? Did he have a soft mouth?
John Block What a pathetic "argument" John. Surely you don't believe that I care what you think about my intelligence? Small fry? I'm laughing at you? Oh boy. Now that's solid stuff. "Relative to the knowledge we have today" you say, they were ignorant? So you are referring now to what we know about science and technology… uh, well sir, that's not the kind of ignorance we were discussing. Just because we know more about the ocean, elements, stars, the universe, and have cool gadgets does not make us smarter than our predecessors, or LESS IGNORANT in the realms of character, wisdom, or even common sense. No sir, they were no more ignorant than people today.
Jeff Pessina Yes, if your beliefs contradict science and common sense, then you're an ignorant fool. Hey, my 2nd son was born a virgin birth: you wanna worship him?
Jeff Pessina: Yes, Mister Pessina. I'm sure that's why you'll defend slavery in the Bible, why the writers of Exodus though that it was fine for a man to sell his children into slavery — girls only if they were at least 12! — why it was okay to marry your slave (also if she's at least 12). Perhaps, when Iraq fell, we should have taken the foreskins of all Iraqi men, like the ancient Jews. Who here is the barbarian, Sir?
Jeff Pessina So, You have to narrow down the kind of ignorance that we are talking about to make your rebuttal easy. You are small fry.
not all denominations of Christianity are the same, but most are based on a male hierarchies. Although not denominations of Christianity "bash" people, they are certainly guilty of oppressing groups of people. To practice a religion by its very definition is to live by a set of rules. If one does not abide by such rules one cannot truly be religious in the literal sense. And although I do not agree that the Bible was written my ignorant nomads, I do believe those that take the Bible literally are the ignorant ones. That is not to say to find meaning in the Bible is worthless. But it is not meant to be taken word for word. Although Catholicism cannot be viewed as the only form of Christianity, Catholocism is very guilty of oppressing groups of people. If anyone disagrees with this read a history book or read some of the ridiculous stuff the Pope says or things the Church "bans"…although they may not come out and say things that can be taken for bashing, they certainly do not do much to discourage it. Again I am not speaking of all Christians, but there is certainly a fair share.
It's funny how it is ok that Christians can bash gays and other religions but when someone else bashes Christianity it is suddenly not ok. This country was founded on religious freedom and not just for Christians. And Islam does not actually treat their women like less than human. It is the culture in the area. Islam was actually one of the first religions to introduce the equality of all races and the equality of of all its believers it is the culture of the area that dehumanizes their women not their religion and in the Bible it actually implies that women are less than man since God took Eve from Adam and made her his "helper". Also just because someone is gay or has different religious views than you do that does not make them immoral or wrong. Every religion has its own answers and none of them are wrong so get off your high horse since Christians do the exact same thing to other people.
Notice what a foul-mouthed bullying tone this speaker uses as he attacks from his "bully pulpit" a book, which he freely takes out of context and grossly misinterprets, and which many in his audience hold sacred. Then he justifies his own bullying by defining it as "self-defense" and "pushing back." even as there was no-one in the room opposing or attacking him. Then he tops it off with an assault on hypocrisy, a charge he makes against those who would oppose his views.
Notice what a foul-mouthed bullying tone this speaker uses as he attacks from his "bully pulpit" a book, which he freely takes out of context and grossly misinterprets, and which many in his audience hold sacred. Then he justifies his own bullying by defining it as "self-defense" and "pushing back." even as there was no-one in the room opposing or attacking him. Then he tops it off with an assault on hypocrisy, a charge he makes against those who would oppose his views.
Apparently bullying is wrong, UNLESS your bullying Christians.
Tina, how was that bullying?
Jimmy Cline… idjit.
Jimmy Cline… idjit.
Jimmy Cline I'm not Tina, but I would suggest that if he had been a Christian espousing the wrongs of the Kabal and Sharia Law in the same manner as that and Muslim youth were getting up and walking out you wouldn't be asking that question!
Cynthia Klahn he speaks out against Islam and Sharia all the time. He often uses pretty much the same argument he used here. I would have said the exact same thing as long as the person can back up what they are saying with facts and reality.
What did he say that was not true?
Cynthia is right. Anybody who gets up in front of a captive audience and denigrates any other group of people he considers himself to be superior to, is a bully.
Jimmy Cline how is not calling someone's beliefs BS and callnig them pansy asses not bullying? Keep avoiding the argument and dancing around to justify your position. You seem naive enough to think people are born homosexual.
Heywood Jablueme so you seem to want everyone to be PC huh?
Heywood, people are born gay, just like just about every mammalian species has gay members. Being gay is biological, that is a fact.
Tina Cattane so when people speak out saying that being gay is wrong, that is also bullying?
Jimmy Cline no animals are not born homosexuals they exhibit homosexual behaviors. You are the PC one using the term gay, sure you use African American to describe Blacks in the US too which is made up PC term.
Heywood Jablueme sorry but not true. There are exclusively homosexuals animals. This has been seen is almost all mammalian species. Na, I use the term "chuk chu" more then anything to talk about black people, by the way it means "black person", well roughly.
I went back and listened to what this young man had to say again mostly to make sure I heard him correctly.
Tina I would ask what is the difference between the snippet of what this young man said and the post you had just a while back about mocking atheists? In both instances you and the young man in question were and are voicing your opinions which we are still allowed to do. So why is he a bully?
Cynthia, if Tina had posted something espousing the wrongs of other religious beliefs I would ask her questions not necessarily about bullying, but about her view. BTW Tina and I are cousins and do often disagree on religious issues; but she still loves me as I love her. At least I hope so.
Heywood, he did not call them pansy asses, he called their behavior pansy ass. Go back and listen again and yes there is a difference.
Jimmy I have to say that even though I agree with you on the question of why this young man is supposedly being a bully; I disagree with you on the animal part. Heywood is correct.
Think about what you said Jimmy.
There cannot possibly be any one animal species that are exclusively homosexual. If there were, they would be extinct.
There are how ever many (mostly primate) species that use homosexual acts as a means of control and discipline.
Roberta Heidebrecht I never said any animal was exclusively homosexual, I said pretty much ever mammalian species has homosexual member that are exclusively homosexual.
Jimmy unless you are a zoologist you will never get to agree with your statement that “mammalian species has homosexual member that are exclusively homosexual.”
Where are you getting your information from?
Roberta Heidebrecht I am not zoologist, but I do have a degree in Biology. All you do is have to do a little research and you will find the information, it is not hard to find.
Jimmy Cline Y'know, no one knows for sure if people are born homosexual or not, but it's funny you believe it by faith (without evidence), because I still haven't seen those baby homosexuals you guys keep talking about (LOL). Regardless, the Law is to reveal to us that we are all sinners and need to accept Christs' sacrifice as payment for our sin. "ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God".
So, the purpose of pointing out that your homosexuality is sin is not to condemn you, you are already condemned. It's to let you know that you also (just like the rest of us) need to repent & believe.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Jimmy Cline Y'know, no one knows for sure if people are born homosexual or not, but it's funny you believe it by faith (without evidence), because I still haven't seen those baby homosexuals you guys keep talking about (LOL). Regardless, the Law is to reveal to us that we are all sinners and need to accept Christs' sacrifice as payment for our sin. "ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God".
So, the purpose of pointing out that your homosexuality is sin is not to condemn you, you are already condemned. It's to let you know that you also (just like the rest of us) need to repent & believe.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Jimmy, if they say that being gay is a sin according to God's law that is one thing. Church groups who carry signs saying "God hates fags" they are not only bullies, but hypocrites and liars. You can disagree with someone without calling names or insulting them. You can even make harmless jokes to an audience of people you know agree with your own view, that doesn't mean your
mocking anybody (bobbi, and yes I love you, even when your wrong. lol) In addition, all BELIEVERS are called to live lives of holiness and sexual purity whether they are gay, straight, ot other. For the unbelievers God said "judgement is mine" and "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Jesus loves all his wayward children, even a retch like me.
Jimmy Cline if you try to tell someone that what they believe is wrong and use language that is offensive to them and you know that then that is BULLYING
Roberta Heidebrecht : I think this man was irritated that these people got up and refused to listen to his rant about the Bible. He compared these kids to people who had beat him up apparently, which I'm quite certain they never did. To group the "bible people in the hall" with those who wronged him is just as bad as calling all Muslims terrorists. Insinuating that there was something cowardly with their decision to leave is just as bad as saying "your a pansy ass" and I don't see much of a distinction there. Unfortunately someone or someones calling themselves Christians have behaved in a way that has caused this man to be very bitter and that bitterness rang out very clear and strong to me. I wish everybody knew what Jesus said. "They will know you are Christians by your love" and those who cannot love would quit lying and calling themselves by that title, then I think a lot of this animosity would not be the case.
Tina I personally think that the kids who got up and left showed a lot of strength.
A huge problem I see here is that once again someone (not you) took a little snippet out of a speech to stir up more hate mongering.
Tina Cattane How about that! You're saying that Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum and Rick Perry are all bullies. Bravo!
Roberta Heidebrecht That is partly true. I also feel a lot of Christians are getting tired of the double standard of anyone who speaks out on any other topic gets pounced on by the media, but if you bash Christians or Christianity you pretty much get a free pass. Some peoples answer is to put what could be considered too much emphasis on little things, but it is just a symptom of the fact that a lot of us are getting really tired of it. I don't know what the answer is, perhaps Jesus would tell us to turn the other cheek. On the other hand, at some point it gets hard to sit back and be ran over.
Tina: Those Christian kids leaving the building were not bullied. They were not beaten until they had multiple fractures and a separated shoulder. They didn't have there heads shoved in full toilets. All because people thought I was gay – these things happened to me. I'm guessing this has never happened to you. Good guess? Now go back to your cushy life where no one tells you you're wrong.
Heywood Jablueme You seem stupid enough to believe your sexual orientation is a CHOICE. It is not. Did you choose to be heterosexual? I don't believe sexual attraction is a choice. Show me some proof to the contrary. I'm straight, and I didn't pick that. I am simply, by nature, attracted to women.
Merciful Nate, those things you described are horrible and I an sorry they happened to you. I had my share of being picked on, called names, in high school I was stalked by and attacked several times by a large group of girls who decided they didn't like me. I was married to a man 8 years who decided I made a good punching bag. I am no stranger to fear and assualt. I also dont hold what happened to me against those who had nothing to do with it. I dont hate all men for instance just because of one mans weakness and insecurity.
Tina Cattane. I only said this because you seemed to throw the terms "Bullying", "Bashing", "Pouncing" (see above) around without the slightest idea of what "Bullying" means. Again, what Dan Savage said was not bullying, it was speaking truth to power. Sometimes the truth hurts, and the powerful can't handle it. You never did respond directly to what Dan Savage said: why not go after adulterers like Callista Gingrich? Why not go after consumers of shellfish, cheeseburgers, and mixed fabric clothing? These are all "wrong" under the very same Levitical laws. l
By the way, as a Jew, I believe "turning the other cheek" could possibly be the dumbest 4 words uttered by a human being. From personal experience, turning the other cheek makes a real good 2nd target for a bully. And trust me, if the people of Israel followed the completely idiotic philosophy of Jesus Christ (turn the other cheek), there would be no Israel. The only truth bullies – Saudi, schoolyard, or spousal – will ever understand is a steel-toe boot.
Again, if speaking truth to power hurt the feelings of those poor students – too bad, so sad.
Heywood Jablueme The "christian nation" claims are ludicrous and revisionist. It doesn't matter what faith/beliefs the founders had, they purposely made our government secular to include people of all walks of life. I know it pisses you off that we are a pluralistic society and a melting pot, but the sooner you can accept that your religious beliefs do NOT shape our laws, the better off you will be.
Its been stated to you that you should read the Treaty of Tripoli, I would suggest doing so before making such ridiculous claims. The 10 commandments are not in the constitution. Murder and theft were crimes and were wrong long before the bible existed.
Now to the point of the article, Savage chose the wrong language to make his case. Yes. But his points stand, and I have yet to see anyone debunk them or even attempt to discredit them. All i see is a bunch of phony outrage. Christians in this country are in the highest positions of power, you make up a majority of the population. Just because some people don't agree with your holy book doesn't make them bullies. Just because someone is speaking out against some of the "bullshit" in that book, doesn't mean they are attacking you. Instead of getting offended, how about fighting back with some facts?
Well, this is America, where we have the right to believe whatever philosophy we choose. Idiotic or not. I don't agree with those Christians who attack gays, in fact I doubt they really have any true idea what being a christian means. As a jew then you maybe un the understand the real significance of what turning the other cheek really meant. It was not a sign of weakness but a way to shame the person who struck you, and point out their unjustice, or bullying, if you will. For to strike the other cheek the striker would of had to backhand you, and the significance of that in first century Judea was quite powerful
WOW, and he does not see the venom he is throwing…
Mr. Savage please look in the mirror when you speak of intolerance.
WOW, and he does not see the venom he is throwing…
Mr. Savage please look in the mirror when you speak of intolerance.
Isn't it odd, no one there was oppressing him. No, signs of protest condemning him, but he felt the NEED to "push back." The Christian School students were there to learn how to use the media to stop the bullying.
It would probably shock him to find out I supported his position until his attack on my faith. We do not need to replace one kind of bullying for another. Wrong is wrong regardless of the source. When you create/re-create G-D in you own image he comes up short.
Did he later attack ISLAM? Mr. Savage clearly is a fraud and a pretender.
John Salmeier he speaks out against Islam all the time. Also Islam follows the same bu||sh!t bible as the Islamic folks.
When did speaking the truth become speaking venom? What did he say that was untrue? There are thousands of things we ignore in the bible, but people seem to insist that because the bible talks about gays we have to follow that part. Can you explain the inconsistency?
Jimmy Cline: So only HIS core beliefs are valid?
John Salmeier I don't know his core beliefs, but your beliefs are just as valid as his. He has every right to think the bible is bullsh!t as much as you have the right to believe that it is fact. He has the right say those beliefs as much as you have the right to say his views are wrong.
But I am still wondering what he said that was inaccurate?
Jimmy Cline Hate is hate
Jimmy Cline Hate is hate
John Salmeier what did he say that was hateful? He said that people using the bible to bash gays was wrong and he backed it up.
Did a single Christian in that room attack him?
Jimmy Cline Did a single person in that room demand he change his view?
John Salmeier he attacked the views that did not make sense. He did make a comment about the people that left because they didn't like what they were hearing. Now from my view that is pretty candy@ssed in my view.
John Salmeier he attacked the views that did not make sense. He did make a comment about the people that left because they didn't like what they were hearing. Now from my view that is pretty candy@ssed in my view.
Jimmy Cline DID ANYONE THERE ATTACK HIM?
John Salmeier when did he say that anyone attacked him? What is your point?
Jimmy Cline He felt the need to "push back" who in that room was pushing?
John Salmeier in my view walking out on someone because you can't handle listening to what they are saying is pretty pansy-@ssed. So I can't disagree with what he said.
Jimmy Cline: They left because of his unprovoked cowardly attack.
John Salmeier that is exactly my point, he didn't attack any of those people that left. They took his words as an attack because they wanted to, not because he did attack them. He did attack the bible, but that is completely different than attacking them. If you are a liberal wanting more gun control and I show that your belief is irrational because they cities with gun control laws have more crime, am I attacking you? Not at all, I am attacking what I see as a mistaken belief.
Jimmy Cline It's not that he was speaking some truth about the bible; he just wasn't speaking the whole truth! Want the whole truth on the subject? Read Romans 1:18-32,
and this:
1 Cor 6:9,10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
and this:
1 Tim 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1 Tim 1:10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
THEN if you don't like it or are offended, take it up with God who wrote it.
ps, note that these passages refer to numerous other sins as well. Where do you stand?
Bill MacCaughey actually men wrote the bible. Men claim it was god that inspired them, but it was still men.
I stand on individual rights. My rights end where yours begin. If you are not injured by my actions then my rights are absolute. Having your feelings hurt is not injury.
Jimmy Cline yep, jImmy as long as it feels good and doesn't "hurt" anyone else it's ok right? Bill and John, Jimmy is just justifying his lifestyle and choices.
Jimmy Cline yep, Jimmy as long as it feels good and doesn't "hurt" anyone else it's ok right? Bill and John, Jimmy is just justifying his lifestyle and choices.
Heywood Jablueme if what I am doing doesn't affect you then why is it any of your concern at all? As for my lifestyle, you mean the father of three wonderful children, husband to my wife of 25 years?
Jimmy Cline Ill say it again link his talking about muslims otherwise stop posting your LIES
Bill MacCaughey AChristians duty is to point out sin and try to save the lost,being gay is no different a sin as adultery,sex b4 marriage,Lying(we know were obama is heading)stealing,coverting(that applies to everyone jealous of what rich people have
As to diet changes, Mark 7:14-23 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Just sayin. There are NO contradictions.
John Salmeier there are plenty of contradictions but with enough faith you can just disbelieve them away. That is the thing about faith, reality is no effect on it.
Jimmy Cline show one in context…
John Salmeier Have you ever read Jesus, Interrupted by Bart D. Ehrman?
Jacob Kaiser
Have YOU ever read the Dead Sea Scrolls in original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?
Or the new testament in the original Greek? Not simply someone telling you what it says, actually reading it?
It is worth the effort, if one beliefs can handle a few knocks.
John Salmeier That doesn't change the fact that there are contradictions in the Bible. And isn't the Bible made up of writings by men who TELL YOU what God says rather than him telling you yourself?
Jimmy Cline you're at it again! The NT Christians are not under the OT Law, AND the OT Law came with a system of worship and sacrifice for forgivenss because God knew that no person could be as holy as He is in their own right. Still, He had to define holiness. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory. "Falling short" in Romans 6:23, is the Greek word picture for an archman who's arrown does not hit the target, even when he's aiming for it. That's all of us. God told us what the target is, and He knows we fall short, so He provided a way through Jesus to make us holy like Him and in fellowship with Him.
So I watched the video and I am trying to see why people are so upset. Everything he said was true. All he was saying that people ignore many parts of the bible all the time so why should it be different about gays? I can't see where he cured Christian teens. He said that many things in the bible were bu]]sh@t, well I have to agree with him there.
Can anyone point out something he said that was not accurate?
So I watched the video and I am trying to see why people are so upset. Everything he said was true. All he was saying that people ignore many parts of the bible all the time so why should it be different about gays? I can't see where he cured Christian teens. He said that many things in the bible were bu]]sh@t, well I have to agree with him there.
Can anyone point out something he said that was not accurate?
These guys *love* to be outraged, and Fox loves the headlines. I'd wager that none of the posters here have even watched the video. They just read the inflammatory text and, like the good sheep that they are, bahhh bahhh bahhh.
calling HS students, pansy asses? Yeah great role model/speaker. How about fact he talks only of old testament. Keep dancing around Jimmy trying justify your agenda and lifestyle.
Heywood Jablueme "my agenda and lifestyle" huh? I have been happily married to my wife for 25 years. My agenda is freedom and liberty.
Jimmy Cline and I am sure you'd find it ok to let your 5 year old to go hang out with the homosexuals that live down the street. Since, it's so ok with you. When you are ok with that then I guess you can see it as not deviant, unnatural behavior. And if you already find it ok feel sorry for your children having a father like you. Your freedom statement is a joke, since you think Christian should be tolerant of others ramming their agenda down their throat and accept their behavior that goes against their beliefs.
Jimmy Cline I agree Heywood Jabluenne… So Jimmy, do you have any qualms whatsoever about having young Homosexual men baby-sitting your male children?
Jeff Pessina actually there is a gay guy that will be babysitting my kids tonight. He is a very upstanding person and I trust him completely. We have a charity event we are attending and will be out until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. By the way, there have been a total of three people that have been allowed to babysit for my kids. I am very picky.
Heywood, how does someone being gay affect you? They are not ramming their agenda down your throat, they just want to be free to live their lives, nothing more.
Heywood Jablueme His lifestyle is full of sin and hate for believers, would love to see his face when he stands before the throne, when God sends him to the escalator that goes DOWN
gays are 2% of the poulation, and so are murderers,both head to the same place come the judgement (if unredeemed)
Heywood Jablueme dont forget the vast majority of child molesters are homosexuals.just look at the gay catholic priests for proof, not 1 case of catholic sex abuse scandal involved a priest and a little girl all were boys.thats why gays are always at our schools recruiting for a fresh batch of future abominations
Jimmy, if one looks up the dictionary definition of "bully," Savage fits the definition. He was intimidating and mocking weaker people, and being abusive.
His remarks about the Bible and slavery were entirely inaccurate. First of all, it is important to understand that Christians do not live by Old Testament principles. We are supposed to live by the New Testament.
That said, according to Old Testament teachings, kidnapping and selling people was punishable by death. The kind of slavery that was practiced during Biblical times was not the same as that practiced in America. Slavery frequently was voluntary. The OT's is replete with instructions to the Hebrews to NOT mistreat their slaves. OT Hebrews were not Christians.
New Testament teachings about slavery were directed toward Christians who were involuntarily enslaved by the Romans. Again, not Christians owning Christians, but Christians who were themselves slaves. They were instructed to serve their masters as if serving the Lord so as not to create antipathy for Christianity.
The "shortest book in the Bible" to which Savage referred is Philemon. He is flat out wrong about what Paul says in Philemon. Read it for yourself if you don't believe me. It will take you about a minute.
When Savage says "we" ignore things in the Bible all the time, the "we" of which he speaks is not Christians. If he meant Christians ignore the Bible, he would have said "they." Christians typically don't ignore the Bible.
I am sorry that you think the Bible is bullshit. I will pray for you to know how very much God loves you despite your contempt for Him.
"Can anyone point out something he said that was not accurate?" Heck yeah, how bout his foundational premise; that the Bible got it wrong.
What is wrong with homosexuals? Just because they love someone who is the same gender as they are doesn't mean that they are horrible people. I know quite a few gay people who are constantly volunteering with the needy, helping out at animal shelters, or other places. So according to some does this mean that they are horrible people just because of who they love regardless of all the great things they are doing in society?
Jeff Pessina Ha. This is called prejudice. Its like my fear that Catholic priests might rape my two boys or that "loving" Christians will bully them and protest their school because they have two daddies. Oh wait, the latter *do* happen, while the former does not. How about that. Keep on spreading that Christian love and wipe the bile from your mouth the next time you choose to vent.
Jacob Kaiser, I so agree with you that those who claim homosexuality have value in other areas of life, just like any other person does. However, I disagree with you on this: homosexuality is not about love. It's about sex. I love my children, but I'm not going to have sex with them. I love my sisters and best friends, but I'm not going to have sex with them. If sex were all about love, then we wouldn't have a multi-billion dollar porn industry. I Corinthians 13 is considered to be the Chapter of Love in the Bible. Sex isn't mentioned, though every principle in there can be APPLIED to sex, but it often isn't. Homosexuality is about sex, not love. Even married men and women are TOLD to love one another because they don't always do that just coz they are married. Sex is protected in male/female monogomy only. Every other type of sex brings risks with it. Do not confuse passion with love. They are very different animals. Even heterosexuals get those confused. It's time to wake up, people!
If sex is for reproduction, and being gay is "natural", then tell me Mr. Savage why can you not reproduce in someone's intestinal tract?
David Pierce, so does that mean that a woman that is infertile can only have unnatural intercourse?
Jimmy Cline Nice try…but I am sure her ovaries were never in her intestinal tract.
David G Pierce your contention was that because they could not reproduce it was unnatural, so are you changing that position?
Jimmy Cline No. If it were a natural thing to be homosexual, there would be a way to reproduce. There is not. It is against the basic human instinct for the species to survive. There is presence for this in religion as well as Darwinism.
David G Pierce you seem to misunderstand biology a bit. Do you know where ever gay person comes from? Straight parents. Gay is as natural as a human being left handed. Also you don't seem to understand evolution, it is the survival of the species, not the individual. After all gays just make us more fabulous.
Because sex is not solely for reproduction, duh. Although maybe it is for those of you who can't bear to be that close to your spouse more than once or twice in a lifetime.
But the line stops at the gay. He/she cannot reproduce. For sakes, Mr. Cline, you did not just infer that being gay is a choice, tisk, tisk…
Mr. Parker…you are so right. The sperm and egg are just there for your viewing pleasure…no real reason for BIRTH CONTROL.
Jimmy Cline Give it up Jimmy, this guy has never had sex for pleasure, has never eaten shellfish, has never worn mixed textiles. He's perfect. ; P
Mr. Block and you call yourself a Catholic?
David G Pierce when did I infer that being gay is a choice? It is biological, that is just reality.
David G Pierce Absolutely not. Because of my education I actually read the bible and dismissed it outright as a very poorly written piece of fiction. Talking snakes? Bats are birds? People live to 900 years old? It's utterly preposterous.
Jimmy Cline Top commenter for who…Media Matters?
Cynthia Klahn, thanks for demonstrating a classic ad hominem response. Instead of replying to my comments and trying to show they might be incorrect you try to attack me.
David, better question for naive people like Jimmy. If people that are homosexuals are "born" that way, why are their so many of now than any other time in history? Since, being homosexual is self defeating behavior and they don't procreate, the born condition would die out and be extremely rare. Like albinism is in the wild, which is a self defeating born trait which makes it extremely hard for them to survive…The born with it argument was made up by the homosexual agenda (like hijacking the term "gay" to sound nicer then homosexual) to make it look like it isn't a choice to be homosexual…"I am born this way accept it"…Try some critical thinking sometime Jimmy.
Heywood Jablueme the numbers of gays has been fairly level throughout history. The difference is that would you admit you were gay if it meant death, injury or jail? At times when gays were accepted it seemed like there were more gays. The part you are missing is why would anyone choose to be gay in places like Iran when it would mean your death? Or at times in the US when you could be jailed for it?
Jimmy Cline it's call deviant behavior. Why would anyone commit crimes they know would result in death penalty(pst here is a tip, it's call behavior, a learned decision from their exposure to the environment around them) ? Nice weak argument there Jimmy, go fish again. Thanks for proving my point to; for argument sake we'll go with your claim that the numbers of homosexuals are consistent. How is that possible with homosexuality being a self defeating behavior(doesn't produce offspring with the condition since they don't procreate). Numbers should be dropping and going to extremely rare occurrence/virtually extinct . Funny you didn't explain why that is, because your argument doesn't hold up is why…have a nice day, keep living your sin or justifying it others you know, but end of the day you are naive and wrong.
Heywood Jablueme sorry but you might want to read up on a bit more biology. You seem to have this mistaken believe that biology is only genetic.
I said that being gay was biological, not genetic. You might want to go read up on the difference.
One does not make an argument "if … then … therefore …". Clearly your argument is wrong because the hypothesis is incorrect: sex is not *for* reproduction only. Proof: go to any college campus, any night of the week, and virtually all of the sex — and there's lots of it — is not for reproduction, will not lead to reproduction, has no intention of being reproductive, and is generally done with an explicit attempt to thwart reproduction. And yet they're doing it for a reason: if not, they wouldn't be doing it. Ergo: sex is not for reproduction.
Nice try. Now give this a shot: if noses are for olfaction, is it immoral to wear eyeglasses?
Heywood Jablueme How is being gay a crime or deviant? Is it deviant just because you don't like it? Why can't gay people just be with the people they love without intolerant people saying they are an abomination or it is a "crime"? It does occur naturally in the wild whether or not it results in offspring.
Isn't this ummmm… Bullying? We need to be careful what movements we support. Know the underlying agenda.
So saying the truth is bullying? When did that happen?
So saying the truth is bullying? When did that happen?
Jimmy Cline I've been reading your comments. You're awesome. I agree with you wholeheartedly. All he did was point out that christians conveniently ignore large parts of the bible, so why not ignore the part about being homosexual? It's intellectually dishonest to ignore parts of a book that is considered the law of your faith while you cherry pick the parts that you like. They condemn homosexuals to hell because they don't obey the laws of the bible, when in reality the christians who are doing so are they themselves going to the same hell for eating shellfish, wearing a poly/cotton blend, cutting the hair on the sides of their heads and a whole host of other things.
Jimmy Cline I've been reading your comments. You're awesome. I agree with you wholeheartedly. All he did was point out that christians conveniently ignore large parts of the bible, so why not ignore the part about being homosexual? It's intellectually dishonest to ignore parts of a book that is considered the law of your faith while you cherry pick the parts that you like. They condemn homosexuals to hell because they don't obey the laws of the bible, when in reality the christians who are doing so are they themselves going to the same hell for eating shellfish, wearing a poly/cotton blend, cutting the hair on the sides of their heads and a whole host of other things.
Yah: social conservatives have been co-opted by the GOP in an effort to elect representatives who will install policies that help the rich to the detriment of the poor and middle class. That's the underlying agenda, and its why the GOP is led now by rich men like Romney and Limbaugh, whom Jesus himself said can never enter heaven … unless, of course, you can figure out how to shove a camel through the eye of a needle. Heck, you can't push Limbaugh through the door of an airplane restroom.
John Block
If you had read the bible and understood what the central msg is, that God sent Jesus His Son to die for our sins and to give us new life, you would know that the bible nowhere in the New Testament commands hatred for anyone. At the same time the N.T. speaks clearly of a variety of sins and includes homosexuality and lesbianism not only in Romans but in 2 other places. 1 Cor 6:9,10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Also see 1Tim 1:8-10. Read it then talk to God about it, He wrote it.
Bill MacCaughey you mean like this message from the New Testament; "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality."
So you think we should still have slaves and they should be striving to please their masters?
Bill MacCaughey When I read Harry Potter, it was about a boy who lived under the stairs in his Aunts house and it could have been non fiction book, then an owl showed up with a letter that told him that he was going to a school that taught magic. Up until that point it could have been non fiction, but at that moment I saw it was clearly fiction and the rest of my reading was understood from that perspective.. The same goes for the bible, there was tons of ridiculous stuff from the get, but when I got to the talking snake part I thought to myself "This is clearly fiction" and in reading the rest of the book I viewed it from that perspective. It's a pity that in this enlightened day and age people don't regard literature in this fashion.
Jimmy Cline, Jimmy really are your critical thinking skills that lacking. It is a half truth at best which is the same as lying.
Bill MacCaughey They don't want to hear that Bill. They want to "cherry pick" parts of old testament(which isn't applied to modern as you posted) to serve their means and justify their deviant lifestyles.
Heywood Jablueme what about my statement was not completely correct? The New Testament in multiple places talks about how slaves should obey their masters and be happy about it.
Jimmy Cline No. I don't think you have EVER in your lifetime heard ANY CHRISTIANS anywhere presenting a message that we should have slaves, or allow it, or that Christians think it's a good idea. And ESPECIALLY not the old American experience of slavery. If you have, please present us your source. Paul, in saying they should serve not only well, but EVEN BETTER since they were Christians, is not saying that he thinks slavery was a great idea. He was simply saying as a slave, do your best. To be an honorable person and show what it meant to be a Christ follower. He also said somewhere else, if you can be free, then use that option and serve God as a free person. There is a "slavery" that was not purely evil. Read your Bible. Many slaves would, after many years of service say, "I Don't want to leave." And they would pierce their ear as a symbol of lifelong loyalty to their "master" who they loved. You may not like that, but that's just too bad. It's not your life and not your choice. If a person had a GOOD Master that they loved, it was not deemed an evil thing. In fact, it was NOT an evil thing. It was a choice and a relationship. Jesus Christ did not propose revolution or rebellion, neither did Gandhi, and neither did Paul. So advising slaves to be honorable and good is not the same as saying I think it's a great social policy.
Jeff Pessina sorry but owning another person is wrong, well at least in my opinion. If you read the Old Testament you will find all kind of stuff justifying slavery, but even in the New Testament they don't speak out against it.
I would think if the bible was this great moral compass it would instead of telling the slaves to be good little slaves it would be telling the masters that slavery is wrong.
Jimmy Cline Sounds like you think the Bible should say what you think it should say? And that Paul should have taught people to revolt against the culture of the day? He should have led an uprising against slavery and Roman oppression, right? And I suppose that's what Gandhi should have done also? And Martin Luther King… he should have told his followers to get guns and clubs and start fighting and killing white people for their abuses? No. Paul told them to do what they should have done. Be honest. Show respect. Fulfill your contract if you have one. Don't steal. You may not like the taxation of today, or of that day, and yet Jesus and Paul advised that we should respect the authorities and pay taxes. Like it or not. The Bible teaches that as much as possible, we should live lives of peace, and respect, and OF ALL PEOPLE, Christians SHOULD be people who do better than anyone. (I am not saying this is so… but Paul taught, as did Jesus, that we SHOULD be.) Paul did not condone or suggest slavery. He was not a politician, nor a worldly revolutionary. He was a persecuted, in jail, Christ-follower suffering for his faith, and writing most of his letters from prison, and advising Christ followers to DO WELL. To do right, and commit their suffering to Him who one day will settle and judge all injustice and unrighteousness.
Jeff Pessina that is the point I was making, people have been twisting the bible to say what they want it to say for a long time. They ignore the parts that don't fit their view and push the parts that do.
John Block both of you are ignorant quoting the OT(for the jews)we are in NT days were we (the gentiles) are not under mosiac law.Stiill the NT points out God detests sin all of them and nobody that isnt covered by the blood will see eternal life
What I find ironic is that some many on here complain about "political correctness", but I now realize that you don't really care about PC, what you want to do is use that term as a tool to say what you want to but bash anyone that says something you don't find PC to your beliefs.
Dan Savage is a BATH HOUSE HOMO who doesn't belong within MILES OF CHILDREN. We have to either start KILLING LIBERALS ( which get's my vote) or we have to take back their ability to corrupt our children through ALLEGED SEX ED. To have this VILE FILTH MONGER whose articles on the internet are laced with SEMEN DRINKING FILTH address CHILDREN is a HANGING OFFENSE.
Listen to the NUMBERS OF your STUPID CHILDREN who are CHEERING THIS FAGGOT ON!
WHERE'S A LONE GUNMAN WHEN YOU NEED ONE?
“We can learn to ignore the [expletive] in the Bible about gay people the same way we have learned to ignore the [expletive] in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation,…” — Dan Savage.
Christians do not adhere to the dietary laws of the Old Testament, etc., because God gave Peter a vision. But Christians are told to attempt to do what is morally right – what is natural.
Read chapter 10 in Acts.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2010&version=NLT
How is Dan Savage an anti-bullying activist? He's nothing more than a raunchy degenerate who makes it his goal to peddle homosexuality as normal behavior to as young an audience as possible. The only bullying he opposes is the kind directed at supposedly homosexual children. Savage obviously has no problem bullying Christian kids who disagree with him.
When gays realized that California was the only state that would accept direct indoctrination of children with their tripe, they created this whole anti-bullying movement as a cover to promote their lifestyle in the public schools. "Anal Intercourse – A Duet of Pain and Ecstasy" or "Carpet Trimming – How to Become a Really Cunning Linguist!" probably aren't going to fly on the middle school assembly schedule. "Bullying. Why it's Wrong and How We Can Help" sounds a lot better, and most parents won't realize what the activists are promoting until the kids have already sat through the brainwashing session.
The hypocrisy from people like Savage is migraine-inducing. Can anyone imagine what these morons would be doing if a public school held an assembly featuring a pastor from a local church who presented Christianity as acceptable, or even cool? The ACLU, AUSCS, PAW, and Lambda Legal would all be busily preparing lawsuits and booking their spokesholes on CNN and MSNBC.
"Teaching not to bully" others by bullying himself. Interesting…. "Do as I say, not as I do?" He was using his stage to hurt and "get back" at others who've hurt him in the past. Not the best teaching method. People who teach lose their credibility when they use profanity, bashing and name calling. Let's all show some respect, please.
Elizabeth, how did he bully? Please give specifics.
A national journalism conference? How does this speaker qualify to be invited? His advocacy is juvenile and pre-literate, not a presentation worthy of students. One might find his act in a Comedy Club venue somewhere but I would not have stayed for long myself if I were in attendance.
Savage has nothing to say. HIs fills the air with words but says nothing worthwhile.
James A Glassok, it would be accurate if you said "He fills the air with works but in my opinion says nothing worthwhile." For I found many of the things he said worthwhile.
Homosexuality is wrong, and although we find Savage's tirade disgusting, we always want to respond with the humility of Christ, even when we feel righteous anger compelling us to defend our Lord with the sword of Peter.
We must respond with the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God (as did Christ with Satan) without allowing our anger to overshadow the message.
It's difficult, I know, but many of us were "lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God."
But we certainly don't want to be guilty of "having a form of godliness but denying its power."
Jimmy, if they say that being gay is a sin according to God's law that is one thing. Church groups who carry signs saying "God hates fags" they are not only bullies, but hypocrites and liars. You can disagree with someone without calling names or insulting them. You can even make harmless jokes to an audience of people you know agree with your own view, that doesn't mean your
mocking anybody (bobbi, and .eyes I love you, yyyour.wrong
I keep trying to fix above post but phone is goofing up. I meant to say " I love you even when your wrong lol"
In addition, all believers are called to live lives of holiness and sexual purity whether they are gay, straight, ot other. For the unbelievers God said "judgement is mine" and "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" Jesus loves all his wayward children, even a retch like me
allhis wayward children
Jimmy, if they say that being gay is a sin according to God's law that is one thing. Church groups who carry signs saying "God hates fags" they are not only bullies, but hypocrites and liars. You can disagree with someone without calling names or insulting them. You can even make harmless jokes to an audience of people you know agree with your own view, that doesn't mean your
mocking anybody (bobbi, and .eyes I love you, yyyour.wrong
If this guy had been saying anything slanderous about homosexuals, he would have been dragged off this stage and arrested…this makes me so hurt and offended! How is this an anti-bullying speech???
Arrested? Really?
He is a homosexual so then he would saying something slanderous about himself
Yes arrested is what I wrote. and jacob….no, just no. thanks
Eleni Kelley um yes just yes
Eleni Kelley um yes just yes. Did you not know he is gay?
Of course it's obvious, and obviously you didn't know what I meant…are you done following my post now??
Sad
Yeah, it was very sad that the kids were rude enough to walk out on a speaker.
Jimmy Cline No the Sad part is people stayed to listen to his foul mouth!
Jimmy Cline No the Sad part is people stayed to listen to his foul mouth!
Jimmy Cline No the Sad part is people stayed to listen to his foul mouth!
Jimmy Cline No the Sad part is people stayed to listen to his foul mouth!
Jimmy Cline No the Sad part is people stayed to listen to his foul mouth!
I love the Christians on this site. They are *so* Christ-like. Ha ha ha ha. Hey, remember to give up your wealth, pay your taxes (give unto Caesar…) and, if you divorce, don't get remarried! Oh, and be good to your slaves and, as Exodus warns, don't sell your daughter into slavery until she's at least 12. And don't marry your slave until she's at least 12 either (even if you breed them yourselves)! Thus saith the Lord.
The problem is, so many "professed Christians" make arguments about the bible and religion based off what they've heard or just think that's what the bible says. That's what has led to people like Todd Savage having a built up anger towards us, and refuting our often emotionally-based arguments. I'm not going to get into where he is right or wrong, but everyone on here needs to remember that, as Christians, our job is to win souls through kindness, not win the argument. (I would like to point out, however, that the old testament law was created for the Israelites, not the Christians of today).
well said, especially the 10 commandments. it wasn't meant for the Jews if they can follow the law, but to prove that they can't follow the law itself, as if they failed in one law is guilty of all. As for us and the Bible. it is our mirror and shows who we truly are, that's why we need Christ.
Roch Bee Exactly. God gave the laws (which are impossible to keep) to prove to us that we can't possibly get to heaven on our own accord. When asked what the greatest commandment was, Jesus replied with "To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself." When you follow that, every moral decision you make will be in God's favor.
His anger has got NOTHING to do with us Brent and I get sick of hearing this crap. You think we should do what? Be sweet and nice to the reprobate? You got any Idea where we are at in the history of the world and how much time is left? Saving souls and the whole idea of the Church as you may well know, in the last days is a waste of time and it is best to prepare for what is coming. Children of the Grave like this Godless, Christaphobic, in your face militant intolerant faggot, can take his speech and his opinions and shove em up his colon where he gets the rest of his dumb stupid ideas. You know as well as I do, MOST of the things we are told about all the evil Christians in this Country, don't resemble a damn one of them and are nothing but imagined or embellished to the max with colorful adjectives and lies. His problem is his own guilt and that isn't our fault. No amount of acceptance by society is going to legitimize them anymore than allowing them to ride the coat tails of Church and / or State sanctioned and approved, license for marriage. They will STILL feel like the repugnant abomination they are. They shame you into giving you some nice n sweet Christian reputation to live up to, they will walk all over you. You need to know what you are dealing with here and discern whether you are dealing with someone actually wanting help or making it his career to make us look like were are running a treadmill jumping through hoops.
The problem with his argument suggesting HIS sexual bent is the only one we attack, I would just remind everyone, when was the last time you say any activist group, demanding they have their rights respected and their sexual bent for incest, embraced?
How ABOUT men whose sexual bent is cheating on their wives? Ever see that kind of group telling anyone not to bully them?
People into having sex with animals? No?
ME NEITHER!
Only QUEERS do this garbage and it is time we PUBLICLY REBUKE THEM AND SHUN THEM RIGHT BACK INTO THE DAMN CLOSET SO ALL THESE LUKE WARM CANDY ASS CHRISTIANS QUIT PRAYING IN THE CLOSET. The fact is GOD HATES THE SINNER and doesn't care about the sin until you commit it. God doesn't punish the sin he punishes the sinner!
If this guy is going to get up infront of impressionable School Students Proselytizing his sexual religion of depravity, then you treat that one different than some sexually confused sinner who will be brought to you with genuine questions. This guy sets himself and others up.
You don't argue with atheist or gays these days, unless you like wasting your time. They all think they are the Philosopher Kings of Infallible Science and that all Christians are as dumb as a box of rocks. Well that ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer after listening to his monosyllabic diatribe. That guy, is just a punch in the face,
waiting to happen
god willing ; )
Well, just remember that insulting people and ranting isn't going to help either way. Thats all I'm going to say
Brent Taylor yes, and without the cussing. if we treat ppl and the unbelievers the same way they treat, how can we show them what Christianity is. remember what Jesus did when people mocked him?
*us
CyberCitizen.org has speakers with advanced degrees in Education, Psychology and Computer Science available for schools and conferences, often at no cost. Visit http://CyberCitizen.org for details and be sure to sign up for the May 11 free on-line conference on #Bullying and #Cyberbullying too.
I feel so badly for Mr. Savage. I get the impression that he is full of bitterness and anger. One cannot be at peace inside feeling like that. It is my hope and prayer that he finds a balance in his life which will lead to joy, a hard found thing. The road is narrow.
There was nothing incorrect in his statements. How about instead of the phony outrage someone actually point out what he got wrong? Be as offended as you like, but I have yet to see any of you "persecuted" christians make any sort of rebuttal outside of calling Savage a bully and that he is 'attacking' your faith. Religious freedom applies to us all, including Mr. Savage. Instead of being offended, lets try having a real conversation about what he said and why it was wrong?
Oh wait, he didn't say anything that was untrue.
it would be hard to rebuttal a fact that is to be believed as an opinion. The Bible has been there for centuries, never changing. Even the facts of life has been pointed out by the Bible. It's us who can't accept the Bible as is, because we all have different mindsets and beliefs. the fact is that we dislike the Bible as it preaches and shows us who we truly are. It shows us all our imperfections and vanity, yet it gives us a solution to our problems in the person of Jesus, but again. who would believe this if one thinks this is an opinion?
What a hatemonger this guy is! He and those who cheered him on are typical of verbal bullies, but much worse because he should know better. He wasn't "defending himself" (he wasn't being attacked by anyone). He was "getting even" by vilifying the religion of those he feels bullied him in the past, purposely trying to hurt those in the audience who follow the same religion, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those individuals themselves.
Dan Savage is an admitted homosexual. What do you expect from this deviant?
Dan Savage is an admitted homosexual. What do you expect from this deviant?
All I can say is shame on this man! And shame on the National Journalism Conference for inviting him to speak! Doesn't he realize that when he bashes someone else-he is doing the exact same thing he is supposedly fighting against: Hate, Inequality, Respect, and Bigotry. And is he saying that he himself has been a victim of a "beating"so to speak. I highly doubt it. Most normal productive thinking adults do not believe in treating gay/lesbian people any different as human beings. I just happen to believe marriage is between a man and woman. Period. End of discussion. T
Thought some want be interested to hear this:
Statement by National Scholastic Press Association and Journalism Education Association regarding keynote speaker at recent Seattle convention.
April 30, 2012 by admin.
At one of the plenary keynote sessions of the two organizations’ semi-annual conventions, Mr. Dan Savage had been invited to share with students the power of social media in today’s world as well as speak about the problem of bullying of gay youth, an issue all too familiar in many American schools. Mr. Savage’s comments on April 13 veered from the topic however. At a point in his speech he criticized the Bible, at times using vulgar language. An immediate consequence was that some students and advisers walked out on the speech.
NSPA and JEA consider Mr. Savage’s use of harsh language and profanity to be inappropriate and offensive to many in attendance. This is not what our organizations expected. In his attempt to denounce bullying, Mr. Savage belittled the faith of others – an action that we do not support. Ridicule of others’ faith has no place in our programs, any more than ridicule of the LGBT community would.
Student journalism, like professional journalism, is built on the foundation of free speech. It should not shy away from controversial topics and viewpoints. But it should promote and engage in civil discourse. Mr. Savage’s speech fell short of that standard, and for this our organizations apologize.
Mr. Savage has also apologized for using inappropriate language in front of the convention audience.
The two organizations will review their procedures to assure the appropriateness of content to student audiences.
He was obnoxious, wasn't he?