Apr 11, 2012
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The chaplain of Vanderbilt Catholic, one of the largest student religious groups at Vanderbilt University, said their organization has been ordered by university officials to change their name. The order came after the Catholic group announced it was leaving campus rather than comply with the university’s new nondiscrimination policy.
A spokesperson for Vanderbilt University confirmed that the Catholic group was told they could no longer use the Vanderbilt name.
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“Those student groups who choose not to comply with the university’s nondiscrimination policy do forfeit the privileges associated with registered student organization status and that includes the use of the Vanderbilt name,” spokesperson Beth Fortune told Fox News.
The university has an “all comers” policy. That means all groups – including religious groups – must be open to all students and that every student should be allowed to run for office.
Vanderbilt reviewed the constitutions of every registered student organization to make sure they were in compliance with the policy after a dispute between the university and a Christian fraternity that expelled a homosexual member.
That campus-wide review included Vanderbilt Catholic — with about 500 members, it’s one of the largest of the university’s 400 registered student groups — whose membership is open to all students, but requires that its leadership be Catholic. The group refused to change its policy and instead decided to leave campus.
As a result, Vanderbilt Catholic will have to find a new name said Father John Sims Baker, the group’s chaplain.
“We’ll have to change our name,” Baker told Fox News. “That’s one thing the university has made clear.”
Baker hedged when asked if Vanderbilt’s edict on the name change was mean-spirited.
“I guess they own their name,” he said. “I’m not too upset about it – but whatever.”
Fortune said the policy is fair and was made clear to the student organizations.
“Registered student organizations that don’t comply with our nondiscrimination policy will forfeit certain privileges and that includes the use of the Vanderbilt name, university funding and other privileges associated with registered student organization status.”
Fortune said any group that fails to adhere to the policy will also have to change their name. Justin Gunter, the president of Vanderbilt’s Christian Legal Society, said it’s sad.
“Vanderbilt is intentionally trying to disassociate itself from religious groups,” he told Fox News. “In keeping goal it’s a necessary step for Vanderbilt to take.”
Gunter is a spokesman for a group of 11 Christian organizations that have submitted applications for official status without making changes to their faith requirements – an act of defiance to the university.
“If our applications are rejected, we will not be able to claim we are the Vanderbilt chapter of the Christian Legal Society,” he said.
Father Baker called the university’s policy a “kick in the gut” and agreed that Vanderbilt considers Christians as second class citizens.
“The discriminatory non-discrimination policy at Vanderbilt University has forced our hand,” Baker said in a statement. “Our purpose has always been to share the Gospel and proudly proclaim our Catholic faith. What other reason could there be for a Catholic organization at Vanderbilt? How can we say it is not important that a Catholic lead a Catholic organization?”
Nevertheless, the chaplain said they will have to rethink the way they minister to students. Several hundred attend Mass and many others are involved in a variety of religious activities.
As for the name change – Baker said they are floating some ideas but nothing has been decided.
“We’re still going to be reaching out to students on campus,” he said. “We have to get about our work and maybe work harder at it.”
FOX News Talk
Everyone seems to be ignoring this quote from the article:
"The university has an “all comers” policy. That means all groups – including religious groups – must be open to all students and that every student should be allowed to run for office.
Vanderbilt reviewed the constitutions of every registered student organization to make sure they were in compliance…That campus-wide review included Vanderbilt Catholic — with about 500 members, it’s one of the largest of the university’s 400 registered student groups — whose membership is open to all students, but requires that its leadership be Catholic. The group refused to change its policy and instead decided to leave campus."
This isn't an issue of having an all Catholic leadership it's simply about saying in the organizations constitution that someone who isn't Catholic could hypothetically be a part of that leadership…
If in fact it is true that the muslims are exempt then Vanderbilt is showing it's true hyprocrisy. They force the Catholic groups hand for their definition of discrimination and then discriminate themselves.
Some enterprising soul at Vanderbilt should start a student organization, open to all, calling for the systematic destruction of Vanderbilt University. It would be interesting to see of they let that stand.
How long before Vandy students will be banned from attending ANY Christian church in the name of tolerance, fairness, and sensitivity? Soon each of us will be able to tell our children where we were when America fell and ALL Christian religions were outlawed. God help us all because very soon we will need it. We are raising a generation of American's that will have no grounding in God or any sense of morality.
Steven, it won't be just Christians, it will be Jews, Muslims, anyone with 'perceived' exclusive tenets of belief. That is the thing people need to get ahold of mentally- this is not just about Vanderbilt. This is a creeping social sickness subtly taking over alot of things. What is ultimately going to happen is the state will step in and take control, eliminate any standards except its own, which will have very little to do with anything human and everything to do with power and economics, and we will become a secular humanist socialist state- where our thought processes are defined for us by government propaganda; acceptable means of expression are controlled by government regulation and punitive action; and religion as we know it as Christians disappears in favor of get togethers where we reinforce state policies and ideas as if they were handed to us on stone tablets at Mt. Sinai.
See already the attitude of moral superiority that people who support this policy use as they address people of faith? "We who are tolerant are superior to those of you who oppress us by claiming that there is Truth thereby implying by definition that there is also non- Truth. How dare you! Therefore, like Pontius Pilate the state must arbitrate- and the universal unanswered question at Jesus' Christ's trial- "What is Truth?" echoes again. I want to know if we will see the Savior crucified again in His Bride- I am very concerned about what looks like a repeat here of what happened in Nazi Germany, and what has gone on in Communist countries.
Jo Flemings I agree. Yet somehow Christians and God fearing people of religion are the problem. If we will just "see the light" and obey then the world will be a better place. Besides God is out of date anyway and Christ will not hold anyone accountable for anything. I pray for the future of religious liberty because as Christians we are being told that our right is secondary to the whims of the state. What happens when religious liberty comes up against freedom of discrimination? Religion will lose and we will be forced into spiritual and intelectual bondage by the "tolerant."
Steven Andrew Zaelit At that point I plan to move on to the amendment about the right to bear arms…
Jo Flemings When the 2nd Amendment falls the country will fall. That amendment was put into place specifically to protect the people from a rogue government. I pray that some miracle will save us all from that day.
I am not a Catholic, and I have a lot of problems with the Catholic church and the way it does things. However, I truly feel that the Catholics are being persecuted here. Is Vanderbilt doing the same thing to Muslim and Jewish groups? It seems like the Christians are being thrown to the lions again!
The university's hostile attitude towards Christian groups is blatant.
Here is a suggestion for the group's new name: "The Catholic Student Ministry of Nashville, TN formerly of Vanderbilt University" – I know it’s wordy but the intent is to still use the Vanderbilt name in a factually accurate method the university can't legally do anything about.
After all what is the university going to do – kick them off campus! Sorry dean Elvis has already left the building so you can't do anything about it.
You expect a bunch of azz kissing liberals to challenge the Muslims? A non-muslim needs to try and get on their board and be refused on religious grounds to make a discrimination case. I'd bet the atheists don't have the balls to try that.
"The university has an “all comers” policy. That means all groups – including religious groups – must be open to all students and that every student should be allowed to run for office." Their policy sounds right American to me. If a non-Catholic joins the group and runs for office, so what? Don't elect him or her. Or if he or she is right for the job, elect em. This is a kind of metaphor for our whole country. If a state (Catholic group) constitution goes against the federal constitution (Vanderbilt as a whole), which one wins? The federal, right? So, Vanderbilt wins in this case.
Now, if Vanderbilt tries to tell that Catholic group what it's allowed to say or not to say, well, then it's time for that group to transubstantiate Vanderbilt but good. And they can start by devourin the finger Vandy's waggin at them.
America went to sleep and when she awoke, it was in an alternate universe where wrong is right and right is wrong.
But at least one person in America is satisfied that the trees are just the right height.
But at least one person in America is satisfied that the trees are just the right height.
So what's to stop a group (say… 'Vanderbilt Homophobes') from mass joining a Gay/Lesbian group, electing their own officials, and effectively destroying that student organization? Just as most knee-jerk reactions by many who work in education… they run right past all the reasonable solutions directly to absolutes (as in 'absolutely the worst solution', and 'absolutely the zero intelligence solution', and 'absolutely the most predictable solution').
Okay, a good point. But what, to you, would be a reasonable solution?
Okay, a good point. But what, to you, would be a reasonable solution?
Grandfather the constitutions of school groups perhaps? It doesn't sound like they're willing to do that.
Vanderbilt isn't willing to do that, that is.
Would they be
happy with institute
for Atheist belief ?
No one that lives in Nashville is surprised by all of this mess from Vanderbilt. The Vanderbilt Divinity School has been a joke for years. If you finished a degree there, you are lucky to still have your belief system because everyone know the Divinity School faculty is the most non religious bunch of jokers that ever stepped into a "Divinity School."
Did not know that. What have you done to get this heresy'airtime'? If nothing, then you have either accepted the changes for economical reasons, QUIT PRAYING to the One God, present in Three Persons, Or nothing. The Church has been under powerfully evil assault. Like the Mother She is To Christ and HIS Church, she listens. love, maureen.
An example of the narcissistic 'enlightened elite' persecuting dissenters "under the radar." I would never belong to any organization that would have me as a member. Unless, of course, it's to impose my interpretation of 'fairness' upon the others. The campus has degenerated. Go Commode-doors.
Perhaps they could change their name to "Iranderbilt Catholic," in solidarity with persecuted Christians in Iran and as a commentary on the totalitarian Vanderbilt culture.
It's kind of funny to watch the "Lords of Higher Education" prove how bigoted and stupid they are. They continue to paint themselves into a corner in front of the whole world.
The headline for this story could just as easily have read: Vanderbilt's Catholic Organizations Demand Special Treatment.
Or, since they're in solidarity now, Vanderbilt's Christian Organizations Demand Special Treatment.
Ken Thor White How dare they say you should not engage in nonmarried, unreproductive sexual congress. If you think you are gay and still wish to be a Catholic the admonition remains. If you can live with the requirements of the church you are fit to lead other Catholics to a more spiritually fulfilling life if not your actions will not be trustworthy because you won't even understand the burdens and blessings of a faithfully lived Catholic life.
Brian Barkley If someone joins who ain't up to their snuff they don't have to elect him or her to anything. You'd think religious groups would welcome all people, by the way. You know, since they're always trying to get people to join. Also, by your logic people who are sterile shouldn't enjoy a little nookie with their loved one, right? Your rules are man-made. I hope you know that.
Vanderbilt just adds to prove that our educational institutions are trying to influence our young adults that it isn't OK to have self morals. The Catholic Church and institution is not trying to force its religion and believes on anyone, it is just preaching and professing its religious morality and beliefs, which it has the right to do so under the first amendment. If a student doesn't want to participate, no one in the Catholic organization applies pressure or makes any threats on that student in the way Vanderbilt has just put pressure on the Catholic Organization to adjust to their administrative policies and believes. My question here is who is the aggressor and repressor here, Vanderbilt Administration or the Catholic Church? You be the judge.
Here is a tidbit of information for you. I am a retired military veteran. On one evening at the dinner table with my teen child we were having a discussion about the child’s future and if they had considered enlisting in the military. My child’s answer was a no way in hell. When I asked why, I was informed by my own child that all US military people where baby killers and my child had no desire to be affiliated with that. Just think, this is a child of a career military veteran who spent years overseas and away from my family to protect this country and this child says they believe all military people are baby killers! Can you imagine my shock? You can only imagine the lock on my child’s face when I asked if they believed I was a baby killer. I think that got my child’s attention. When I asked why my child would make such a statement, my child said it was based on the propaganda that was coming from the teachers at school. Not all teachers, but a select few. I never could get my child to give me the name of those teachers who were pushing their propaganda on the children of the school. But this should be a message to all parents who have school aged children, know what their teachers and school administrations are teaching your children that are centered on direct influence rather than giving them the knowledge and tools to make their own educated and personal judgment on decisions that will forever influence their lives. Children are supposed to be given all the true facts and information and in the end they are should be encouraged to frame their own opinions and judgments, not those of the teachers regardless of whether they are liberal of conservative. Get involved with your schools, administrations, teachers and most importantly, your teachers unions. Tell them, they are supposed to be there to educate your children, not politically influence them.
First, thanks for serving. The military sounds like a tough career. And we all know it's a necessity in our world and is filled by an almost totally (99.9999%) good group of people. I defy your son to go to any base and find one person who is into killing babies. He won't find not even one. As for his school thing, I doubt a teacher would say such things. His reluctance to name names makes me suspect. Maybe his friends told him that and not any of his teachers. Anyway, please remember that Vanderbilt isn't asking any religious group to change their beliefs. No one has a right to do that. They just want all students to be treated equally. Again, thanks for your career in the military.
Remember, no one is forcing a non-Catholic on anyone here. The group can elect whomever they please for their board. And this isn't a war on Christianity by Vanderbilt since the policy affects all organizations, religious and otherwise. Todd Starnes is just itchin' to be nailed to something it seems. To become a martyr for the cause. There is not now, nor has there ever been a war on Christianity in this country.
Ken, that is a naive statement. There is most definitely a culture war raging in the US between traditional Judeo Christian values and progressive modernist secular humanist ideals.
Jo Flemings How is there a culture war on Judeo Christian values in the U.S? Also, you look just like my one sister if that's you in the photo. Just pointing that out. But, again, how is such a war happening? Or, to put it better, what is the evidence of such a war?
http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/04/02/secularism-with-the-gloves-off-vanderbilt-universitys-assault-on-religious-organizations/
I'm wondering if a mouseslime group would have to put up with this level of discrimination.
All religious groups on campus have to follow the same guidelines. If a M u s l i m group has a constitution that says only M u s l i m s can serve on their board, then, yes, their gonna have to abide by this too and change that or risk losing official sanction by the school.
Ken Thor White Muslims are not Biblically instructed to turn the other cheek when it comes to the teachings of the Koran. They will not be subtle in their objections.
Ken Thor White Ken, I've been reading all the commentaries with interest. Out of curiosity, why is it that you place a space between the letters in the word Muslim? Is there something I don't understand ? Please explain
Ken Thor White The problem is relatively simple. There very typically isn't a hard and fast definition of what it takes to be a voting member of any student organizations. E.G. to be a member of the Catholic Group who is entitled to vote for officers and board member may only require that you "have attended" several Catholic Group sponsored meetings or events during an academic year, which in and of itself is hard to police. So, if a large group of Muslims or Gays, for the sake of argument, organized and decided to attend the requisite number of Catholic Group meeting and they all voted for a Muslim or Gay candidate they may be able to elect a Muslim or Gay to the Catholic Group board or as a officer of the Catholic Group.
Note: If the other posters on this board are correct and Vandy does not require the Muslim Group to allow non Muslims to run for officer or board positions, than this same tactic can not be used to elect non Muslims to the Muslim Group Board.
So for all practical purposes the only way to prevent this from occurring is to restrict who can run for office or restrict who can be a member. The former would seem to be more inclusive to me since it doesn't restrict who can be involved in the Group's activities but instead restricts who can be members of the Group's leadership.
I wonder if Vanderbilt University considers the US Constitution discriminatory since only "natural born" US citizens can run for and be elected President and Vice President.
If I were not so familiar with the language I have known all my life, I surely could not believe what I am reading. Is this really happening in America? I still can make no sense of it whatsoever. Do they know what they are doing at Vanderbilt, and who will be next to follow this example?
This is definitely happening in America and always has been. See, Vanderbilt is just following the example set by our Constitution. You know, people are entitled to equal treatment under the law or, in Vanderbilt's case, all students are entitled to be treated equally.
Ken Thor White Poor behavior is still poor behavior even if you identify yourself by it. Most of the religions of the world will not bend on this. Perhaps you are mistaken.
Ken Thor White Poor behavior is still poor behavior even if you identify yourself by it. Most of the religions of the world will not bend on this. Perhaps you are mistaken.
All you who really believe the Catholic organization at Vanderbilt are receiving tax payers dollars are just totally naive. The Catholic presence there is not about getting tax payers dollars to preach their message. The Catholic Church is above that. On the contrary, that is exactly why Vanderbilt feels threatened by the Catholic organization. Vanderbilt doesn't have any leverage on the Catholic Church message because the Catholic group doesn't want nor need any taxpayer’s money to provide counsel to those who come forth and asks for it. The Catholic Church does not force it’s believe on anyone like college administrations or professors seem to do. The Catholic Church only helps those who ask for help, they do not try to influence anyone in the way our education system tries to do and sorry to say at the elementary level all the way through the graduate level. When a college will invite in a Muslim radical leader to be a guest speaker, but won't invite the Pope to be a guest speaker, that sends a message to many Americans, that there is something wrong in our education leadership and administration system. I hope Americans with a realistic vision on our future wake up soon and realize we need to sanitize our education institutions of these liberal, far left, environmentalists, anit-military, and just brain washed educators from our education systems. My teachers taught me to make decisions based on my own decisions based on the facts and history they taught me, they did not try to influence me to make decisions on their own personal believes and political believes. Now you need to do the same for your children, because you can't trust your children’s educators to give them all the facts, just those they want to give them.
I'm on college campuses virtually every day and never hear or see any liberal bias to teaching. Nor did I when I was a student. No one is brainwashed on college faculties and no one is brainwashing students. And why you're against environmentalists is beyond me. We only have one earth, remember? And please show me where or how Vanderbilt is forcing any belief onto anyone?
Ken Thor White Just remember that in all human history there has been no time when governments or politicians have had a reputation for honesty or trustworthiness. The ones we have today are no different and the great socialist dream assumes that the government is trustworthy and the individual isn't. In this country even the government has to ask, not tell us what to do. We very much don't like it.
I'm curious. Do you think the Catholic Church and many other religions must not teach that libidinous behavior is wrong?
Reminds me of the Mechanicsburg, PA Judge who vilified the man in court saying, the Muslim had every right to attack him because he was offended. The judge further went on to say he knew Islam principles because he had a copy of the Koran on his bench.
Christians are slowly becoming marginalized. It will not be long, unless Christians in this country wake up, before the ungodly do worse. "They will… kill you and you will be hagted by all nations on account of My name" Matthew 24:9.
How are Christians being marginalized? Is informing them that not every public building, space or park is theirs for the taking marginalizing them? Is telling them that they can't preach in public schools same as all other religions marginalizing them? Is informing them that they, as Christians, are not entitled to any special shake in this country marginalizing them? Is it marginalizing them to reminding them that our Constitution sees a Christian citizen, a Hindu citizen, a M u s l i m citizen and a citizen of any other religion (or none at all) as totally equal? The answer to all of these questions is no, or course not.
Meant "Is it marginalizing them to remind them that our Constitution….."
Ken Thor White Are you one of those jerks that thinks religion should be just in the church? The teachings of the Catholic church and almost all other religions are far older than this nation and the founders had to be fully aware of the constraints. You can't make up a new right to dismiss a previous right.
Christians are slowly becoming marginalized. It will not be long, unless Christians in this country wake up, before the ungodly do worse. "They will… kill you and you will be hagted by all nations on account of My name" Matthew 24:9.
Easy solution- all clubs open to all. A majority of students could join every club. They can then run every club- no matter what religion, belief or minority. Get on it Vandy students!
Does the policy make it possible for a person who is not a member of the football team to become the captain of the team? Does that policy allow a student who has not yet graduated to become president of the alumni association? Does the policy allow a person not appointed by the authorities to become a trustee with voting rights? Where does this policy begin and end? I want to be in charge so you must let me.
It appears to begin and end with currently enrolled students. Athletic teams have physical requirements and skill tests as part of their inclusion policy since they are limited in size by the NCAA. A student is not an alumni and does not qualify for inclusion in an alumni organization (although at most colleges they can serve on the staffs of such groups between classes). And finally, many colleges and universities have a student representative on the board of trustees, not to mention in various committees that report to those boards.
And if a student is not a Catholic he or she is not qualified to lead Vanderbilt Catholic- same reasoning, cant you see that?
Jo Flemings Yes, and that is why such a student would not be elected to any board of a Catholic group perhaps. Right? No one is forcing the group to elect non-Catholics.
My Honor Society granddaughter was persuaded to cancel her visit to Vanderbilt once I pulled up all the media reports on the school and their anti-Christian policies. I would urge everyone to carefully research any and every university your children/grandchildren consider attending. Interesting that Georgetown, once considered a Jesuit/Catholic institution, is heavily endowed with monies from the Saudis. Now I know why their president, several years ago, removed the cross from the chapel wall and why they now have an Islamic studies program.
Very good, Kathleen!! My grandson is a junior at Duquesne. Yes, it would be great if a grandmother had that kind of influence all the time…..Unfortunately, my oldest g'dtr who is an honors grad in May went to Temple as an Independent and is now a full-blown Liberal. Hard to talk to her and her parents…..
Lillian Popp Benjamin-Boysen Oh no, a full-blown liberal? Your oldest granddaughter? Those b a s t a r d s! They got to her? They brainwashed her and now she sees 180 degrees left to right? No more tunnel vision focused only on those that have? Oh, the horrors. I hope you still love her. And her parents.
Ken Thor White Why do you think your politicians aren't lying to you? I the less than a hundred years your grand socialist dream has been tried over a hundred times and everywhere it's tried it has failed or is in the process of failing. Greece is going into default and the EU is about to dissolve. Why do you want what they have?
Brian Barkley You obviously don't understand what went wrong over there. And I'm not a socialist and neither is Obama (though the U.S. government has had some socialist undertones since the beginning. You know, I pay for roads you use and you pay for roads I use. That sort of stuff). And I don't trust any politicians. What makes you think I do? The only politician who seemed to talk without any smarm is Ron Paul. Too bad some of his ideas were a little out there. But he spoke without any of the lawyerly love-of-their-own-voice coating that usually stands between a politician and the rest of us.
Brian Barkley You obviously don't understand what went wrong over there. And I'm not a socialist and neither is Obama (though the U.S. government has had some socialist undertones since the beginning. You know, I pay for roads you use and you pay for roads I use. That sort of stuff). And I don't trust any politicians. What makes you think I do? The only politician who seemed to talk without any smarm is Ron Paul. Too bad some of his ideas were a little out there. But he spoke without any of the lawyerly love-of-their-own-voice coating that usually stands between a politician and the rest of us.
Lillian Popp Benjamin-Boysen There is an African American professor at Temple who heads up their Progressive (Communist) club at Temple and is very public in advocating her beliefs. Stay positive re your granddaughter. My niece took a 180 when she attended Bucknell to the point she would literally curse Conservatives. Now that she is out in the work world her sweet, logical, persona has returned and slowly, but surely, she is returning to her Conservative roots.
Lillian Popp Benjamin-Boysen There is an African American professor at Temple who heads up their Progressive (Communist) club at Temple and is very public in advocating her beliefs. Stay positive re your granddaughter. My niece took a 180 when she attended Bucknell to the point she would literally curse Conservatives. Now that she is out in the work world her sweet, logical, persona has returned and slowly, but surely, she is returning to her Conservative roots.
I am hopeful, Kathleen, once she hits the work world which is June 1st(she was so lucky to get a full time research job in the field she is taking at Temple – child development ) She starts work at the University of Delaware on June 1. She is a smart cookie and we have a good relationship. I am sure she will see the light!!
So much easier to change a name than open your hearts like Jesus… Of course if you dared defy the Church Fathers (instead of obedience to Christ's message of love), you would suffer more than a cozy exodus from campus and name change.
How about transferring to Loyola or Notre Dame?
Well Grant fair is fair. The institution should not dictate the terms and criteria for eligibility of president of a Catholic club. Many professions made this mistake of ignoring and marginalizing cultural differences as a strategy to avoid discriminating. Finally the realization that it is discriminatory to prevent different cultural groups from exercising their constitutional rights as well as honoring the whole person was recognized. While the dictates or practices of religious institutions may be challenged by others or disappointing to others they cannot be offered as a reason for explaining why this decision is not only offensive but prejudicial. If my child attended Vanderbilt i would not encourage my child to transfer I would delay payment and encourage all Catholic parents to do the same. unfortunately capitalism often dictates what is and is not allowed. Prejudice wears many faces. I don't like any of them. I find this whole thing bizarre having spent most of my time in public schools.
Well Grant fair is fair. The institution should not dictate the terms and criteria for eligibility of president of a Catholic club. Many professions made this mistake of ignoring and marginalizing cultural differences as a strategy to avoid discriminating. Finally the realization that it is discriminatory to prevent different cultural groups from exercising their constitutional rights as well as honoring the whole person was recognized. While the dictates or practices of religious institutions may be challenged by others or disappointing to others they cannot be offered as a reason for explaining why this decision is not only offensive but prejudicial. If my child attended Vanderbilt i would not encourage my child to transfer I would delay payment and encourage all Catholic parents to do the same. unfortunately capitalism often dictates what is and is not allowed. Prejudice wears many faces. I don't like any of them. I find this whole thing bizarre having spent most of my time in public schools.
Cowards! Anti intellectual ninny tripe!
You mean the religious groups? Because I don't see anything anti-religious, much less anti-Christian, about the policy.
Welcome to the new United States of Amerika….
Be sure to e-mail beth.fortune@vanderbilt.edu.
and ask why?
done- no response.
This disgusts me… I thought of Vanderbilt as a haven for intelligence…..not any longer. Looks like they've been drinking the kool-aid too…..
I did not get a response either.
You affect the endowment they will see things differently.
You affect the endowment they will see things differently.
How about "Catholic Commodores".
Father Baker's hubris is eclipsed by his hypocrisy. To believe Christians are be treated as second class citizens while treating homosexuals with the same respect Hitler did is unsettling. It looks like this Priest didn't enjoy being on the receiving end of, "Do unto to others…"
The problem is that a group of atheistic students could conceivably join a religious based group, elect their candidate to office and then they would control it. If any religious denomination is equally allowed to start and operate a group then none are being discriminated against.
I am so impressed at the religious unity arising out of all the dastardliness of late. The devil is a genius at dividing and causing conflict. He is having a hey-day in America! Some day (hopefully), our government will realize you can't please everyone on this issue and the politically correct thing to do is everyone just "be nice," be cordial. They have flipped the pendulum to the other side now and are doing to us religious organizations, what they claim we are doing to the homosexuals. How two-faced can you be? It's all bonkers!
I'd like to know where the Alumni Association is on this private university of lower learning. They are the money people here. Any Christians among them.
Time to start working with the alumni of Vanderbilt , I know several people that graduated from VU, we are setting up to contact all of the contributors to ask that they no longer fund Vanderbilt.
I wonder if their math profs have to have a math degree? Do the English profs have to speak English? It's blatant discrimination. Are the students Catholics? Do they go to Vanderbilt? Then get out of their faces! "Separation of church and state" goes both ways.
I see your point, but I think Vanderbilt is a private college(or it used to be) and doesn't have to be held to the same standards as colleges who get government money.
Freedom of Religion applies to all.
Although I can't find a reputable non-biased resource on this, it seems that this debate is about nondiscrimination, not religious freedom. However, without knowing all the facts, it is impossible to make a resonable judgment.
I found the story on the Huffington Post, The nashville CBS website, Fox News, Christianity Today, etc. There are several relatively unbiased sources online. Just Google it. PS. Sororities, Fraternities and the Muslim Student Center are all exempt, so exceptions are being made for some religious groups.
Dan, I can not find a resource that confirms or mentions the Muslim Student Center or Religious Sororities/Fraternities being exempt from this, though it is difficult to believe that only a few religious organizations would be exempt. I did find that there are 4 organizations that have been warned, but no mention of what they are. If you find it, let me know. I, too, read the article in the HP as well as others, which says little because most of the articles are opinion only. Again, without knowing all the facts, it is just my opinion, too. So far, I still see this as being about nondiscrimination, not religious freedom. They are still free to practice their chosen religion, as always, in America. As a parent, student, teacher, and individual, I find comfort in the protection given by separation of church and state.
Has anyone looked to Vanderbilt University was founded by the Methodist Denomination and here it is settting a presidence for discriminating against Christian groups who refuse to bow to their idiotic new politcially correct rules of non discrimination? The Methodist Church and its members are right across the street from the front gate of the University. Vanderbuilt is a private school and solicites it funds from both private and public moneys and religious institutions. All alumni and endowment providers should withdraw their funding as well as the tax payer money going to it. Vandy is consider an elite University along side of Harvard, Yale and the other Ivy League schools, hit the Univesity wear it hurts most in the pocket book. It saddens me to see such a great school travel down this path set out by what I a call " educated idiots" who think they rule the rooste. Vandy has enjoyed a great reputation but has not soiled its good name and its progressive "liberal" standards..
As I read all these posts one thing is abundantly clear……………. This discussion is based on the wisdom of man and pays no attention to the wisdom and law of GOD. I weep for those of you who deny Jesus and his bride (Catholic Church) The truth will be revealed to each person soon enough. REPENT!
Here is the website of the Vanderbilt Muslim Student Association.
http://www.vanderbiltorbis.com/?p=225
No. It is not your imagination. They only hate Christians. They only discriminate against Christians.
left my 2 cents on the comment board…i suggest more do the same
Let me examine this and see if I get it right. If you were Islamic attending Vanderbilt, and demanded rights under your religious values (sic) they would roll out the red carpet to accommodate you. But if you are Christian and refuse to allow homo's into the group, you are banned from using the name? They are trying to dictate how one may practice Christianity. Wisconsin University built foot pools at a cost of $25,000.00 each so Muslim's could wash their feet before prayers. But don't you dare pray to God in Jesus name there. What a sad state our society is becoming. Christian groups hold to their moral values as taught in the bible. It seems it has become a crime to be Christian! Time to take back this country and kick out all these idiots! I can truly see how Christians will have to die for their faith as we approach the end times. And we provide every convenience to Gitmo detainees by providing Korans, Prayer rugs, food that isn't going against their religion (Sic) and kiss their patooties. And dare Americans to practice their faith in open anywhere now. Public property? GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THE PUBLIC PROPERTY!
25,000 each? Maybe for all of them. Not each. And guess what, janitors use them to fill buckets and they have no religious style to them. And all students can use them and do. Yup, M u s l i m s wash their feet before prayers. Goofy, yes, but aren't all religious rules? I mean, don't get me started on transubstantiation. But what about us Christians? What are they building for us? How about entire buildings. Name me a school that doesn't have a chapel or church on it. Even those not associated with a faith. By the way, concerning morals, the notion that belief in a God or the practice of a religion is necessary to be moral is specious. Morals come from empathy, from within. No moral can agree with a person unless that person agrees with the moral first. It cannot ring true to a person unless it was true to them in the first place.
Ken Thor White Go google the cost for foot pools built. YES, it's 25,000 EACH. And they were built to accommodate the Muslims. I don't comment unless I've done my homework. No public school where I live has a chapel. In fact, in most public schools one is not allowed to mention Jesus, God or prayers or Christianity. And some have been suspended for having a BIBLE with them. And the 9th district court in Northern CA. has now said teachers can teach ISLAM 3 weeks of the year. And students must wear the clothing, pray to Allah and study the Quran (Koran). You may also google that as well.
Oh yes and I guess the rest of the student religious Orgs on campus have zero stones and are basically kitties.
I got it Van There Built Catholic!
How about just telling them NO and continue on. If the Univ takes legal action, simply ignore it and continue on as before. Passive resistance will cause the Univ to act like a police state and thus the organization can hold the school up for public ridicule.
The group could just claim they are named after Amy Vanderbilt rather than Vanderbilt University. The name Vanderbilt is not unique to the university.