Aug 22, 2012
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A battle over pre-game prayers is under way in Chattanooga, Tenn. after a Wisconsin-based group sent a letter objecting to invocations delivered before football games at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.
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The Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter to chancellor at UTC urging them to stop opening football games or any other university function with prayer.
The FFRF is a a Wisconsin-based group whose purpose is to “protect the constitutional principle of separation between church and state”
“Prayers as part of university athletic events is particularly problematic when the prayers include sectarian or proselytizing devotions, such as praying in the name of Jesus Christ,” wrote FFRF co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor in her letter to the university.
“Sectarian practices demonstrate the university’s apparent endorsement not only of religion over non-religion, but also of Christianity and its evangelical forms over other faiths,” she added.
The FFRF made particular mention of a prayer delivered by a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. That particular prayer referenced the name “Jesus Christ.”
FFRF said they were representing someone who attended the game and was apparently offended by the prayer.
UTC Associate Vice Chancellor Chuck Cantrell confirmed to Fox News that they had received the letter and were currently discussing their options.
“We have not responded back to them at this point,” he said.
Cantrell said prayer has been a longtime tradition at the university – which was originally a private institution.
“The joke is we are the buckle of the Bible belt,” he told Fox News. “It would not be unheard of or unusual for us to have some kind of invocation at an event.”
Students at the public university are in favor of keeping the tradition.
“It’s outrageous, it’s outlandish, it’s hurtful,” said Cory Garrett with Campus Ministries. His organization is planning to organize events to save the pre-game prayer.
“The body of Christ must come together and defend not our belief – but defend our faith,” Garrett told Fox News. “With these recent attacks on prayer, no matter what the law says, prayer will be available here at UTC.”
The university is being a bit coy on whether they will allow an invocation at the opening season football game.
“Come to the game on September 13th and see what we do,” Cantrell said.
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People have the right to pray wherever, whenever and however they choose. Invocations do not endorse or teach or advocate one religion over another; they are simply inspirational sentiment which I'm sure can be easily avoided by a team member should they wish to exclude themselves. Again, this is a stretch even for secular progressives and, as you can easily see, a pattern of intimidation in a lame attempt to invite activist judges to legislate from the bench. None of these fabricated "cases" should be litigated; if they are, I seriously doubt the atheists would 'win' since they are groundless. If I were the head of a school or university, I would ignore the letter.
the courts dont agree with you
the courts dont agree with you
and thats one of the reasons why the courts dont allow prayer, you said, if the athlete doesnt wana bothered with a prayer, he can leave. That, is why we have separation of church and state
and thats one of the reasons why the courts dont allow prayer, you said, if the athlete doesnt wana bothered with a prayer, he can leave. That, is why we have separation of church and state
Anthony, you are wrong. If you are a government employee, you do NOT have the right to use time on the clock to encourage other people to pray. If it is done by students and for students with student resources, then there is no problem. But if government is involved, then there is a problem. There are numerous Supreme Court cases that make this important distinction.
Anthony, you are wrong. If you are a government employee, you do NOT have the right to use time on the clock to encourage other people to pray. If it is done by students and for students with student resources, then there is no problem. But if government is involved, then there is a problem. There are numerous Supreme Court cases that make this important distinction.
Daniel McDowell ……..Daniel, news bulletin buddy: nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about a "separation of church and state"'- it DOES NOT exist. What it does say is that the state may not establish an official state religion (they were thinking of the Church of England)…..but that does not by any means mean there must be some imaginary iron wall between citizens government and spiritual lives. Wise up pal…..you libs hold yourselves out to be the intellectually superior beings in this nation but you fall far short of that my friend.
Daniel McDowell ……..Daniel, news bulletin buddy: nowhere in the Constitution does it say anything about a "separation of church and state"'- it DOES NOT exist. What it does say is that the state may not establish an official state religion (they were thinking of the Church of England)…..but that does not by any means mean there must be some imaginary iron wall between citizens government and spiritual lives. Wise up pal…..you libs hold yourselves out to be the intellectually superior beings in this nation but you fall far short of that my friend.
O Amida, I take refuge in you,
Ocean of Oneness, Eternal Life and Light;
Entrusting with my whole heart and mind
In your Primal Vow;
I am empowered by you to live a full, Compassionate and creative life,
I dedicate myself to the service of all beings,
Striving to help others realize,
Their human potential and Enlightenment;
May your Teachings guide me
Throughout the day, in my relationships, work and play. Namo Amida Buddha
I do not believe the SCOTUS has actually defined "freedom from religion" or "freedom of religion." I believe the original intent of this part of the amendment was so that the government did not have the control to say "ok this year we are Catholic as opposed to we were Protestant last year." Maybe too if the schools would actually teach history as in how things come to be not how we would like them to be we all would benefit from the knowledge. Just expressing my 1st amendment right.
Daniel McDowell , Then why do both houses of congress as well as the Supreme Court open with prayer? The bogoted FFRF is trampling th rights of the many for one person, that is clearly tyrany.
That would explain why the Congress of the United States begins each day with a prayer and has a paid Chaplain on Staff. It all makes perfect sense to me. Our Founding Fathers didn't intend for this nation to be built on Judeo-Christian Principles. They just initiated practices like this so we'd have something to congest our Court system with in the 21st Century. I see. You guys are right on the money. The fact that you make bold statements and follow them up with insulting remarks against everyone who disagrees with you changes neither history nor reality. 90+% of Americans "believe in God." 85% profess faith in Jesus Christ. This is just another case of allowing the tail to wag the dog, and it's going to destory this country, if it hasn't already.
Daniel McDowell Need to understand seperation of church and state, from when Thomas Jefferson first wrote that to when Justice Hugo Black mis-used that phrase in his ruling on Everson v. Board of education. See my post and you might learn a few things.
Daniel McDowell Need to understand seperation of church and state, from when Thomas Jefferson first wrote that to when Justice Hugo Black mis-used that phrase in his ruling on Everson v. Board of education. See my post and you might learn a few things.
Daniel McDowell You really need to do your homework dude! You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about!! Your ignorance is shameful and misleading at best!!
Daniel McDowell You really need to do your homework dude! You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about!! Your ignorance is shameful and misleading at best!!
Daniel McDowell – the courts have not ruled on such stupidity and there is no separation of church and state.
Teresa Cryer Wilbanks – there is no "freedom FROM religion"
Erik Jensen – I have reviewed all of the decisions by SCOTUS and the lower courts and they have never made any ruling other than to say that the GOVERNMENT shall not favor, advocate, teach one religion over another…an invocation or voluntary prayer does not qualify so stop trying to spin this into something that it is not. And I will thank you to cease siting court decisions that are either irrelevant to this issue or do not exist at all. Atheists must learn the law and they must stop fabricating THEIR rights. In case you are not yet clear – Atheists do not have any right to not be offended and they have no freedom FROM religion…they, just like your belief in god, does not exist.
Erik Jensen – I have reviewed all of the decisions by SCOTUS and the lower courts and they have never made any ruling other than to say that the GOVERNMENT shall not favor, advocate, teach one religion over another…an invocation or voluntary prayer does not qualify so stop trying to spin this into something that it is not. And I will thank you to cease siting court decisions that are either irrelevant to this issue or do not exist at all. Atheists must learn the law and they must stop fabricating THEIR rights. In case you are not yet clear – Atheists do not have any right to not be offended and they have no freedom FROM religion…they, just like your belief in god, does not exist.
Well, obviously I dont need to add to this. The 1st amenment is easily understood. It was meant to avoid a theocracy, or a case like the Church of England. (Aka a state sponsered religion). Hope you enjoyed relearning the lesson that you slept through in High School Daniel McDowell.
Brook David Owens – Sadly, they don't teach much fact in schools or universities any longer, they indoctrinate by substituting fact with opinion, which is how you get these convoluted self-serving versions of our rights. Unfortunately, the level of ignorance is growing.
Why do we need prayers at athletic or any events. If it's a private school – fine. At a public school that probably has a lot of different beliefs and cultures why does Christianity have to be the focus? It's a freakin HIGH SCHOOL athletic event. It's not that big of a deal. Pray to yourselves or pray as a family before the game. Why does everyone have to broadcast their faith? Or lack of it. Believe or don't believe what you want.
Kelly Calder – To ask the question in the way you've phrased it tells me that you have a lack of understanding of the issue itself. Atheists MAKE this about Christianity but it is not. IT IS however, about our First Amendment rights. The issue as this asinine organization FFRF pushes is '…because [they fabricated a claim] one person was "offended" by the pre-game invocation, the act is illegal…' – this is complete nonsense. Why would anyone be OFFENDED by such a small thing? And, since NO ONE has the Constitutional right to NOT be offended, where is this violation? IF people actually read the First Amendment along with the "establishment clause" they WILL KNOW with certainty what their rights are and what is against the law. The First Amendment is purposely written in plain English in one single sentence specifically to PREVENT misunderstanding, ELIMINATE ambiguity and STOP manipulations of it. The people of the United States have the right to pray whenever, wherever and however they please. We are protected by the FA FROM the government which prohibits them from mandating by law a specific religion-period. Contrary to the agenda of secular progressives and self-avowed atheists, IT DOES NOT proclaim they or we have any right to freedom FROM religion. They want all references to religion or god to be extricated from the public domain and that is wrong. Basically, you have about 3% of the population manipulating the Constitution thanks to liberal organizations and activist judges to tell the rest of us what we can or cannot do and that is wrong. If their stupidity or ignorance of our laws and rights or their lack of faith or anyone's different faith does not offend me, why should they be offended by any religion or prayer? And if they are, so what? As stated, none of us has the right to an offense-free life. To attempt to remove "faith" from the citizens of the US exposes their agenda to undermine the Constitution and therefore, the country.
Oh, but you can chit-chat against the clock, work at 'your' own paste, against the clock. Daniel, Erik, grow-up and stop your whinning!, there will come a time when you are going to need prayer, take it or leave it.
Anthony – Someone could be offended by having to sit and listen to a prayer. Christians seem to be "offended" by everyone who is not Christian. Actually the Founders did set up America so people had the right to be free from religion and free to worship whatever religion they wanted. That's why they left England. Also, the U.S. was referred to by them as the "Great Experiment.' They NEVER in a million years thought that the US would last as long as it has. If they were to be brought here from 1776 – let's say hypothetically time travel existed – and they saw that the US had become a world superpower with the strongest military, they would probably shit their pants.
No one is attempting to remove "faith" from anyone's life. Why does Christianity have to be in the forefront? If it had been Muslim prayers, would you be so supportive of them praying before games? Or if it were Jewish prayer? Or Hindu prayer? Or any other religion or faith? If it was Scientologists, Wiccans would you be so supportive or is it only a "right" for Christians to pray in public at public high school events? That's the thing – I don't notice ANY OTHER religion or faith who puts their religion out into the public as much as Christians do. We get it – you love Jesus. You love God – so what? Why does it have to be EVERYWHERE? "God" wasn't in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954. God wasn't on our currency until 1860s on coins and 1957 on paper money. Why couldn't we have just kept the motto "E pluribus unum?" People act like God was supposed to be part of the nation but it's not. Most of the Founders weren't even devout Christians at all.
Yes there's no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. But if you want prayer at school, send your kids to a private school. Why does it have to be at a public school where there are many different faiths, non-faiths, and cultures. It is uncomfortable to have to be forced to participate in prayers when you don't follow that faith. I was raised Catholic but fell away from that belief a long time ago. I think all religions are bullshit but I don't force that on anyone. You know how many prayers I've been forced to stand through while in the Army? Yes most of them are generic now and I don't bow my head but was actually made to in a couple incidents. But I have yet to see such compliance to other faiths.
If you want prayer, fine. Do it for everyone or no one at all. My point only was I don't see why you need to pray AS A GROUP before a damn high school – or any – athletic event.
I don't understand why Christians cant just do there own personal prayer. Why does it have to be cooperative? Prayer is something a person should be invited to.
It's because they feel a need to be constantly validated. And religion cannot thrive without subtle coercion.
no it is because prayer is the way to god for a christian that is the way christians communicate with god and christians choose to speak out load and encourage others to join nobody says hey you have to pray or else its a simple would you join us in prayer so that they can spread the word of god and the grace of god but prayer is not force it is suggested and christianity is simply a religion but being a christian is more then a religion it is a lifestyle people chose to live that way it is like chosing to work hard rather then not putting effort forth it is a choice and you stand by your choice and make it your life style
Cole Tamba, pray all you want, whatever floats your boat. Just don't expect to get paid by the government to do it.
no one ever said that the government would pay us to do something like that but heck they should they pay people for doing less as it is. and before we get onto that subject i will stop there but people still work and people still try everyone is only human so its not like we cant work and expect to survive even though we can now because of the government so really prayer is just a communication with god we arent asking for god to tell the government to just hand over millions of dollars even though that would be nice god wouldnt do that he does what we need to have done in order to do what he wants us to do.
Show some tolerance!
High School players aren't paid and the Coach is a free American… yes?
Cole Tamba the subtle coercion is off putting and demeaning to the intelligent. like i said it should be either personal and invitation only
Erik Jensen – And stupidity and ignorance of our rights and laws cannot thrive based on the hollow and twisted opinions of atheists (~3% of the population) or a few loud secular progressives.
Erik Jensen – And stupidity and ignorance of our rights and laws cannot thrive based on the hollow and twisted opinions of atheists (~3% of the population) or a few loud secular progressives.
people are invited and it is personal but people can also ask to join nobody has to be invited everyone who prays does it of their own free will
1. I feel so sad for the FFRF and folks like them. They are still trying to fill that God shaped hole in their heart with anger, self righteousness or whatever they may find. 2. I find it weird that Atheists that passionately attack the existence of God just prove they think he is real through their actions. 3. As for separation of church & state, the first printing of the Bible was commissioned by Congress to place in schools.
cant fill with something that doesnt exist
cant fill with something that doesnt exist
Empty, like your head.
#3 is not true, Derek. I assume you are referring to the Aitken Bible. All the Continental Congress did was certify it as accurate. They did not "commission" it, they did not purchase it, and they did not distribute it. Quit getting your bogus history from David Barton. Even evangelicals are recognizing him as the liar that he is.
Daniel McDowell you think you cant fill a hole with something that doesnt exist but god does exist to so many people and the reason you dont believe is because you cant see him or feel him but let me ask you can you see air can you be so sure that you are filling the gaps in your body with air that you will say that air does exist if not then you simply can not say god doesnt exist
If our public schools, which are funded with money taken from religious, as well as non-religious tax payers.
under threat of imprisonment, 'prevent' the religious from exercising their 'Freedom of speech and.
expression', then perhaps it would be better to return the money to the religious, so that they can fund their own Education systems.
Also, since our schools are encouraged to have a Zero tolerance for 'Bullying', of any kind, would it not be.
better to reject the FFRF's actions as nothing less than the Bullying of the Public schools to submit to a.
single religion, in this case 'Atheism'? We are all equal under the law, but we are still a majority rules country.
If belief in God = a empty head at least I am in good company with folks like Albert Einstein, Leonardo DaVinci, & Thomas Jefferson.
Erik Jensen just who are the evangelicals that are calling him a liar. You cant make a statement without fact. You may not like Mr. Barton, but the truth and facts are on his side.
i think the atheists and liberals are jealous because they do not have a God like we do. One who loves his creation. Man, from the beginning of creation, they have denied who God is, thy Alpha and Omega.
…we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded,nor angles,nor principalities,nor things present,nor things to come, nor powers, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in CHRIST JESUS our LORD, Romans 33:39. That is an awesome God!
i think the atheists and liberals are jealous because they do not have a God like we do. One who loves his creation. Man, from the beginning of creation, they have denied who God is, thy Alpha and Omega.
…we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded,nor angles,nor principalities,nor things present,nor things to come, nor powers, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in CHRIST JESUS our LORD, Romans 33:39. That is an awesome God!
Why is it the business of a group in Wisconsin? If a football player at UTC wants to complain…let him. Wisconsin should mind their wn business
Federal law allows out of state attorneys to sue if Federal law is being violated, which is happening, if the University accepts tax money, then they can not have prayer or any kind at official functions. Now, if they wana pray in their own little club, or as the Bible says, in your closet alone, then they are free to do so.
Federal law allows out of state attorneys to sue if Federal law is being violated, which is happening, if the University accepts tax money, then they can not have prayer or any kind at official functions. Now, if they wana pray in their own little club, or as the Bible says, in your closet alone, then they are free to do so.
Nope.
Did you think the same thing when Yankees stirred up trouble in the South in the 1960s (and the 1860s)? I think that we all operate under the same Constitution.
Did you think the same thing when Yankees stirred up trouble in the South in the 1960s (and the 1860s)? I think that we all operate under the same Constitution.
US Constitution, 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"
This means that the US (federal) gov't can't ESTABLISH any particular official religion. It says nothing about the mythical "separation of church and state" that you claim, except, once again, you're talking about the US Congress making laws regarding the establishment of a religion. It also means that if enough people in a population want to, despite tax or any other funding, the government SPECIFICALLY CAN NOT PROHIBIT the free exercise of whatever religion (or lack thereof) they choose. It is not violating anyone's rights for a group of people, publicly or privately to pray together. Taking offense does not equal rights being violated.
US Constitution, 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"
This means that the US (federal) gov't can't ESTABLISH any particular official religion. It says nothing about the mythical "separation of church and state" that you claim, except, once again, you're talking about the US Congress making laws regarding the establishment of a religion. It also means that if enough people in a population want to, despite tax or any other funding, the government SPECIFICALLY CAN NOT PROHIBIT the free exercise of whatever religion (or lack thereof) they choose. It is not violating anyone's rights for a group of people, publicly or privately to pray together. Taking offense does not equal rights being violated.
US Constitution, 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"
This means that the US (federal) gov't can't ESTABLISH any particular official religion. It says nothing about the mythical "separation of church and state" that you claim, unless, once again, you're talking about the US Congress making laws regarding the establishment of a religion. It also means that if enough people in a population want to, despite tax or any other funding, the government SPECIFICALLY CAN NOT PROHIBIT the free exercise of whatever religion (or lack thereof) they choose. It is not violating anyone's rights for a group of people, publicly or privately to pray together. Taking offense does not equal rights being violated.
Daniel McDowell bible also says to go out and teach though it tells people to go out not hide od Daniel before you say anything about the bible read all of it then read it again and again as the bible tells you to do so on that note dont start saying your misinterpertation of the bible for you have not read it through and through again
I have to pay taxes to our "Fluberment". They help pay for abortions with it. How can i stop that except with prayer.
If it is voluntary, organized by students, and isn't facilitated or encouraged by the college employees (use of PA system, coach's encouragement, etc.), then there is no constitutional issue. This article doesn't provide enough details to make this clear.
If it is voluntary, organized by students, and isn't facilitated or encouraged by the college employees (use of PA system, coach's encouragement, etc.), then there is no constitutional issue. This article doesn't provide enough details to make this clear.
people pray all the time people pray at football games before a meal and where ever the can its haveing a conversation we don't get mad at the insane people when they start talking to themselves why should we be mad at a church for supporting a school and talking to thier god we should accept it how it is and if the team wins then say hey thanks for praying because for some that is thier way of saying good luck. and of the team loses then support the team however you can.
people pray all the time people pray at football games before a meal and where ever the can its haveing a conversation we don't get mad at the insane people when they start talking to themselves why should we be mad at a church for supporting a school and talking to thier god we should accept it how it is and if the team wins then say hey thanks for praying because for some that is thier way of saying good luck. and of the team loses then support the team however you can.
These people exist only because God lets them exist, He has his Word that has to be completed. In the end every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is GOD. Tools that is all. Pawns in a very large plan. These folks are nothing if you want to really see the big boys look into the Illuminati. Satan's end plan will be to eliminate Christians and Atheists, because in the end he will have to have people who believe in him as God and since Christians wont and Atheists don't they neither one will be of any use to him. So go ahead Atheists do what you want, in the end Satan wants you dead as bad as the Christians, you will be of no use to him either. But know this, God is in control of it all. You all need to try opening your blind eyes. God created you. Satan is laughing at you. Even the demons believe and tremble. No matter how hard you try to discredit God he loves you more than you know, but if you pass from this earth without repenting of your sins, getting babtised in the Name of Jesus, and get filled with Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, you will with out any question spend eternity in a lake of fire. There is but one faith, one Lord and one baptism. Why in the world would you want to even chance that in any form at all is literally beyond me. Who in the world do you think you are anyway? your life is a vapor here and gone. Its just not worth it, It is hard to kick against the pricks you are fighting a loosing battle. You say freedom from religion but God said it before you did! That's why he gave you free will, so please let people use their free will, if a church wants to feed a football team, let them, that's their freewill. So just stop already.
awesome hugh
As someone who has lived all 33 years of my life in Wisconsin, I'm feel sick that this group operates out of my state. They are a pathetic bunch of losers who troll around looking to be offended. If you go to their website, they only have about 19,000 members, so their funding can't be that great. I don't know why these schools pay any attention to these people. Call their bluff and tell them to fuck off. That's basically what that mayor of that small Texas town did last year when they "demanded" he remove the nativity scene from the city hall grounds. He held his ground and nothing happened. Even if these schools get sued, there are numerous organizations like Liberty Council who will take your case on for free, and they win most of the time. They just won a huge case in Florida to keep a Ten Commandments monument displayed at a courthouse.
Wow. These insecure Wisconsin bigots are on a roll. I can't help but laugh hysterically at their pitiful self righteous crusade to try and silence what they hate. The word "offended" needs be retired. What we got are unhappy individuals who want to drag everyone else into their pitiful misery. Sucks to be them.
That Wisconsin group needs to deal with matters in their own backyard and leave other states alone.
The Wisconsin group is standing up for EVERYONE'S Constitutional rights. You are just too blinded by your hatred to see that.
If we must bring geographical borders into this, I'd like to point out that the FFRF is based in MADISON, WI. Although Madison is technically part of Wisconsin, I think you'll find the general attitude in that city to be much different than most of the rest of the state.
What I see is the needs of the one, or the few outweigh the needs of the many. The rule of church and state is to prevent the state demanding we all are of one faith. As was in England then, and in Iran now.
Jay Shepherd …I am not Godless, they do not stand for my "rights".
Jay Shepherd You are truly a dumb ass!! Why is it that you godless whackos ALWAYS invoke the word HATE when someone disagrees with your ilk? Your kind always labels itself as the temperate watchdogs of our rights but anybody who disagrees with you is a hater and a bigot. Your kind needs to learn to be more tolerant and quit being such a bunch of mypoic attack dogs. DUMB ASS!
Jay Shepherd – "Everyone's rights" to what? You remain clueless.
Jay Shepherd – "Everyone's rights" to what? You remain clueless.
Jay Shepherd Your Constitutional Right is to not attend the game because the prayer offends you, or to close your ears, or listen to your iPod, or head to the bathroom. If you see a rock concert being held and there is a reputation by the rock group that they use a lot of foul language, you can choose to not buy a ticket! When did Christ suggest, as he prayed and taught publically, that people that did not join him, or join him in prayer should be cast in prison? Just the opposite. Free will is the foundation of Christianity, for without it, prayers, beliefs, faith would be meaningless. I find it amazing that a female celebrity can have her breast exposed at the Super Bowl, and some group wants to sue at the incidence of a prayer for the safety of players.
Jay Shepherd
Jay Shepherd
HATRED? HATRED? LMFAO!!!! Hatred from out of state is whats attemping to stop people of faith everywhere. Nobody is being forced to accept the faith. Thats not the way it works IDIOT BOX. The faith is open to anyone, and its their choice whether they want to accept or not; we call that "free will" – if you cant spell it, its "F-R-E-E – W-I-L-L". Its funny how the media doesnt name the crybaby individual(s) aka faceless cowards who fail to grasp the concept of having a thick skin when it comes to something they hate. I don't hate athiests, because frankly, Im amused at their childish behavior in picking on people who's religion they hate. Save yourself the time in quoting the what the Constitution says, I know what it says, and what this act of the Wisconsin Bigots shows is bigotry, hate, intolerance, and lastly, a vindictive act of bullies who fail to govern their passions. Try to wrap your head around that. Naw, forget it, you're incapable of that.
April Davis
They should but their not. They act as if they were annointed for this moment which ultimately is nothing but harrassment.
Mr.Shepherd.Did you miss the "free exercise thereof"? I didn't see anything hateful about Mr. Rivera's comment. He statement is true.
Ashley: The free exercise is fine. Your prayer will NOT be state sponsored.
Joel, it's the hatred of the christians that needs to be stopped. The people that are against government sponsored prayer are merely looking to enforce the Constitution of the United States.
Michelle, YES, they ARE standing up for your rights.
Jay Shepherd – Christians don't hate anyone – that is absurd as is your fantasy about the non-existent state sponsored prayer. Lastly, trust me, the people of this country do not need people such as yourself with only partial or agenda-driven knowledge of the Constitution to "look out for them."
Jay Shepherd
Well in that case, you best find a phonebooth to change into your "Super Jay" outfit and go out there and save the nation from those mean Chrisitians.
Jay Shepherd
Well in that case, you best find a phonebooth to change into your "Super Jay" outfit and get out there and save the nation from those mean unlawful Chrisitians.
Anthony De Rubeis
The fight for everyone's right to worship how they want and be FREE of government sponsorship/coercion/entanglement/subsidization of prayer.
Dennis Johnston
No, DUMBASS, the comment in which I used the word "hate" was directed to JOEL, after he called the FFRF Bigots and haters.
You idiots can't even keep up with a simple thread! Unbelievable!
Anthony De Rubeis
You clearly know nothing about the Constitution, or you would KNOW that this type of school prayer is UNconstitutional.
And of course christians hate people. They are some of the biggest haters around. Just look at the people on THESE THREADS and what they say. They call themselves christians and spew HATRED to others RIGHT ON THIS THREAD. Hatemonger Joel is case in point.
Joel Rivera
LOL! Don't worry. I am!
David Nathan Viger Jr.
Jesus christ, David. Go learn something about the Constitution. You are an idiot.
Jay Shepherd – Sure, Christians 'hate' because they don't agree with secular progressives and atheists…you are clouded. "This type" of school prayer isn't which is why you are indefensibly wrong. We the People do not need protection from atheists, we already have the protections to worship as we please in the FA. It is your errant interpretation with which we object. Lastly, yes, people get a little testy when you try to take AWAY rights they already have. We the People have an extremely clear understanding of the FA and who it was designed to protect…and trust me, it was not designed to protect atheists. It is you that remain wrong.
Anthony De Rubeis
As MORE PROOF that you are completely WRONG, the school HAS STOPPED sponsoring the prayer.
Do you get that? The school WAS FORCED TO STOP.
You LOSE. Try to get that through your thick head.
Jay Shepherd – So the dipstick liberals that control our public educational system folded…I am shocked. The school was intimidated to stop for no legal or logical reason. The secular progressives "win" another insignificant argument but YOU ARE STILL WRONG. Those people running that school are stupid to fold since evidently, like you, they don't understand our FA rights either or they simply feel they don't have the financial resources to fight. In that case, I've already made my point about that…it is about intimidation NOT LAW. Please remain stupid and ignorant.
Anthony De Rubeis
Let me educate you about the LAW. This Supreme Court decision says what they were doing is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Therefore, they had to STOP. and they DID STOP. You LOSE.
The Court held that the policy allowing the student led prayer at the football games was unconstitutional. The majority opinion, written by Justice Stevens, depended on Lee v. Weisman. It held that these pre-game prayers delivered "on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school's public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty, and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer" are not private, but public speech. "Regardless of the listener's support for, or objection to, the message, an objective Santa Fe High School student will unquestionably perceive the inevitable pregame prayer as stamped with her school's seal of approval."
The 1992 decision you site regards school led prayer BY A RABBI and is no bulletin. This "SCHOOL" did not led any prayer neither did a secular official. It was a pre-game invocation which was not mandatory, indoctrination, state avocation or teaching a PARTICULAR RELIGION…THEREFORE NO LAW WAS VIOLATED, NO ONE'S RIGHTS WERE ABRIDGED AND YOU MY LIBTOOL FRIEND REMAIN TOTALLY WRONG. See folks, they simply MUST twist the facts in order to make their point. This particular case is irrelevant to this particular issue.
Anthony De Rubeis
LOL! Is that why they ran the letter from the FFRF by their attorneys and their ATTORNEYS told them to STOP THE PRAYER!
And you are WRONG about the RABBI. That was a DIFFERENT CASE (Lee
v. Weisman, 505 U. S. 577.) that the court merely CITED in their decision.
The Court’s analysis is guided by the principles endorsed in Lee
v. Weisman, 505 U. S. 577. There, in concluding that a prayer delivered
by a rabbi at a graduation ceremony violated the Establishment Clause,
the Court held that, at a minimum, the Constitution guarantees that
government may not coerce anyone to support or participate in religion
or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way that establishes a state
religion or religious faith, or tends to do so
HA ha! You're hilarious!
You just got schooled AGAIN!!
Anthony De Rubeis
When you LIE on here, you WILL be called out on it.
Jay Shepherd – I am not wrong. I pointed out that the precedent you cited that you think you were correct about is WRONG as it has NO relevance to this issue and this issue is NOT YET A CASE (MORON).
Yes, the school would run the baseless letter by their attorneys and such attorneys would advise them to stop since it is not worth a protracted lawsuit which would never be completely adjudicated in the lower courts because of liberal tubesteak activist judges who think erroneously just like you.
This methodology is no secret but it is disgusting, especially when you consider that our schools struggle financially as it is. These FFRF anti-American anarchists know exactly what they are doing and it doesn't phase them that they are wrong. Their agenda IS NOT to protect the Constitutional Rights for everyone, it is to undermine the document and the country. Their very name is indicative of their agenda since there is no such law as "Freedom FROM Religion." We do not want or need freedom FROM religion and we already have the rights and protection of the FA to ensure that we have freedom OF religion. If you could extricate your secular progressive head from your rectum long enough, you would be able to decipher the distinct real world black and white difference.
I have no need to lie, that has already taken place by the letter and their miserable existence as well as you citing an irrelevant case to support your stupidity. The next time you attempt to manipulate public opinion, you might try to site a relevant case to support your hollow fact-less opinion…but we are not particularly worried or holding our breath because as of now, there is no precedent that would disallow a pre-game invocation from a coach. What is next for you? Must we now be subjected to a double down of stupidity by discussing whether the FA has been violated by church donated sandwiches to the team??? I am beyond laughing at you, I actually feel sorry for you and your ignorance of a very simple sentence in our Constitution. I feel sorry that you can't admit that you don't understand its simple meaning even after it has been reprinted and explained to you. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how stupid or baseless it is; you are not entitled to present it as fact. You are entitled to disagree with the law as well as work to change it but, you are not entitled to ignore the law or twist it to satisfy yourself. The law applies to everyone or it is meaningless. And, for the last time, the FA protects everyone FROM the government that would IMPOSE A STATE RELIGION – nothing more. In case you still don't get it, the FA DOES NOT provide protection for anyone from being subjected to another's religion. Now prove you are not educated beyond your intelligence and STFU.
Jay Shepherd
On one thread you said you were Christian, and on here you use the Lords name in vain as well as attacking the faith that you claim to be a part of. First of all how about a little sensitivity for violating one of the 10 Commandments and a little consistency about your faith. You can say you're a Christian yet side with this out of state godless whackos, Mr Caped Crusader who thinks he's going to single handedly change he world. Truly a legend in your own mind you are.
Anthony De Rubeis
You gotta forgive Jay Shepherd because apparently he was born to believe that he will always be right about everything and wrong about nothing. A psychologist friend told me he must have a big ego that he needs to feed constantly with feeling of greatness when in actuality he suffers from delusions of grandeur.
Anthony De Rubeis
The USSC has spoken on this subject. What they have said IS LAW.
It's amazing that you are not smart enough to understand the very BASICS of your own Government. You are part of the problem in this country.
The school sponsored prayer HAS BEEN STOPPED. YOU LOSE.
Get over it.
Joel Rivera
I never said I was a christian. Time to start working on those reading comprehension skills again! The 10 commandments are largely worthless. The first 5 are complete garbage, and the rest not much better. Don't kill? Don't steal? Fine. The rest are meaningless.
Joel Rivera
My opinions are not right or wrong. The problem you have is that I state FACTS on here to back up what I say and make a fool out of you.
That's what you're pissed about.
Jay Shepherd
Your existence is meaningless. You've proven yourself to be bigoted against people of faith. Post whatever facts that you want, it makes no difference to me because it means nothing in the face of this harassment being brought on by these whiney bigoted Wisconsin sons of b1tches. I suppose you won't be happy until we have something akin to what the atheist communists are doing in China.
Joel Rivera
Yes, that's the PROBLEM!
You say " Post whatever facts that you want, it makes no difference to me because it means nothing".
LOL! Spoken like a true conservative!!
You can worship and silly way you want, except when it entangles with the government.
You should be happy about that.
Jay Shepherd – One single GIANT flaw in your position, tool…this incident was not school sponsored prayer. It is indeed "amazing" that you are not smart enough or have the reading skills to comprehend the First Amendment, the numerous SCOTUS decisions and the differences in these incidents. Like YOU, pretend orgs like the FFRF just make this stuff up as they go in order to UNDERMINE the Constitution. While I have seen through that lame tactic and have repeatedly pointed it out, evidently you are either too stupid to understand it, or just so blind by your brainwashing that you choose to ignore it completely. Either way, you are wrong. If you actually cared about clearing your confusion or learning anything, I suggest you spend more quality time reading many of these posts as well as the FA. Further, if you (and your ilk who post drivel here) or bogus organizations such as the FFRF (whose actual name is a misnomer) wish to change the Constitution, please be my guest and start the process; in lieu of that, just STFU as you make a collective fool of yourselves every time you post.
Jay Shepherd
No. I speak as an American, as one who hates evil big government; the kind of government that was supposed to be by, of , and for the people, that lost its way at some point to be this damnable monster that tells people how to live and what they can and can't do.
Anthony De Rubeis
LOL! Well, the United States Supreme Court DISAGREES with you.
Guess who's going to win THAT argument!
You LOSE.
Our government IS by, of , and for the people.
Obama was properly elected. And we have another election where he will be Re-elected.
That IS by, of , and for the people.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd – Now you are just proving to be a complete ass. What part of my posts escaped your brain? Are you going to remain an obdurate libtool and just ignore all of the facts that we have published? How is it that you cannot comprehend that the NONE of the SCOTUS decisions are germane to this instance?
How is it possible that you cannot admit that the SCHOOL DID NOT SPONSOR PRAYER? How is it feasible that you fail to acknowledge that the SCHOOL DID NOT ADVOCATE A PARTICULAR RELIGION, DID NOT TEACH A PARTICULAR RELIGION and DID NOT FAVOR ONE RELIGION OVER ANOTHER???
How can it be that you cannot grasp that you are factually wrong?
Do you honestly believe that continuing to insist that you have made even one valid point will actually "win" the argument?
All you are "proving" is that it is a spectacular waste of time to even respond to you.
Jay Shepherd
Dont count your chickens just yet. McKenyan may have been properly elected like W. was, but he is the wrong person for the job. We are not better off than we were four years ago, not in the slightest. You live in a dream world boy.
Anthony De Rubeis
Arguing with you is like arguing with a child. You seem to not even be able to understand the article.
Prayers as part of university athletic events is particularly problematic when the prayers include sectarian or proselytizing devotions, such as praying in the name of Jesus Christ.
Sectarian practices demonstrate the university’s apparent endorsement not only of religion over non-religion, but also of Christianity and its evangelical forms over other faiths.
The FFRF made particular mention of a prayer delivered by a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. That particular prayer referenced the name “Jesus Christ.”
Unless the University wants a lawsuit they will stop this bullshit.
Joel Rivera
4 more years.
Jay Shepherd
Don't count your chickens yet.
It never fails to amaze me that atheists play the "someone was offended" card constantly along with pray, preach, or whatever on your own time. This is the thing that is so idiotic to me. Time and time again I see these freedom from religion types insert themselves wherever christian folk gather and try to undo everything the christian folk do. Why is it so hard to simply turn away if you don't like what is going on? Myself I don't drink alcohol very much anymore and despise being around a drunk person, but I don't go to bars and demand that those who are imbibing a little too much stop because they offend me. I don't like the N word but I don't sue record companies of hip hop artists because it's use in hip hop songs offends me. I simply don't listen or I ignore it, and I find I am very content not listening to these songs or getting pie eyed at the local bar. I do not understand why atheists cannot live and let live. They would say that that is exactly what we want to do, but seems to me that even if christians did start a school, or say a group like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, an atheist would demand that 1: they be allowed to join. and 2: that no one could mention the name of Jesus Christ. And to me that is just petty, rude and something you would expect out of a spoiled, petulant child who had never had proper instruction in manners. Some people are just not content attending to their own lives I guess.
Say all the prayers you want, and STOP being intimidated by these nobodies… seriously… grow a pair and tell ANYONE knocking your prayers to go take a long walk off a short pier. What? You think you'll be arrested for saying a prayer before a football game or a school function. You know… we Americans are just about fed up with the 1% dictating to WE the silent majority… no, I think we'll keep saying prayers without these folks getting into our business.
May God bless you…
Pray all you want, but not at PUBLIC schools, fnctions, property, or events! Geesh! Christian religions are NOT above any other — or no — religions. Try to see the disctinction — no religion at publicly funded events!
Nonsense. Try to read the Constitution and the court decisions.
Nonsense. Try to read the Constitution and the court decisions.
yes yes, "separation of church and state" and all…but they're ignoring the second part "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"….now the term "separation of church and state" refers to and prevents the government from establishing a religion by law (requiring that one's religion be a requirement for public office, think nepotism but by religion) and does NOT refer to nor prevent the citizenry from expressing their religion. makes sense to me…..
I'm tired of such group threats… penned by a "lawyer." I say keep doing it Coach, maybe more, and stand your ground with your (and mine) concept of the establishment clause. People who cluster in little groups like this and fake outrage have an apparent need to lash out at others to stay on that page of political correctness, a most confining place to be.
I live in Chattanooga and this is ridiculous. Some of these students and their families attend these churches and the churches have always been involved in the community.This group is also involving themselves with Chattanooga city hall meetings because they say a prayer before the meeting.
Let's see these clowns try to stop prayer from NASCAR races…By the way, there is no such thing as Seperation Of Church And State.It is not anywhere in the Constitution.
Actually, Ashley, the very first amendment says, ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …". It was interpreted very early on as "separation of church and state" (a concept introduced btw by the founder of the first Baptist Church in America, Roger Williams, back when churches like the Baptists were the minority rather than the majority, when he said, "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world"), Jefferson strengthened the "wall between church and state" interpretation, and it was solidified in the Supreme Court decision Everson v. Board of Education.
If they came in and said, "We are having mandatory prayers from the Koran before every football game,"alot of the folks who disagree with separation of church and state would have a different opinion.
Actually Amy, Everson v. Board of education didn't really solidify Jeffersons statement. Hugo Black re-defined it, basically rewriting the first amendment. You should read Black's dissent before commenting because his dissent is actually quite nauseating in it's text, it's one of the first blatant assaults on the Bill of Rights from an extremely liberal judge from the bench. Furthermore, the prayers weren't mandatory they are tradition. People need to understand that praying before any college game is not a theocracy and it is not respecting religion. It is practicing one of our basic liberties. In the Declaration of Independence the nouns "God" and/is "Creator" are mentioned throughout the entire document,,, and are the crux of the entire declaration for freedom. Your statements are oversimplified and cannot be backed by your citation of the Everson case, as you cited.
Amy Petulla The difference is this…If they came in and started games with Islamic chants and prayers to Allah, I would head for the nearest shelter and figure an attack was imminent. If I was in Iran, it wouldn't bother me. If the majority of people were not Christian or at least not anti-Christ, then there would more than likely be no prayers, but people forget, we came here to America not to get away from religion, but from being killed if you were not a member of a certain Christian Church in a country where that Church had life and death power over you, backed by the government.
There is a difference between the State forcing you to go to a certain church, believe in a particular Christian church, with the threat of imprisonment, and someone getting up on a loud speaker at a football game and offering an opening prayer is monumental.
There was never meant to be separation of God and Spirituality and prayer from Government, Government buildings, schools, etc. It was strictly meant to prohibit our Government to force a particular Church or religion on us. A prayer at a game, or by players in a locker-room is a far cry from that.
I'm neither a bible thumper nor a rabid atheist, but it seems to me a lot of people, on both sides of the issue, tend to confuse the word "God" with religion. A belief in God is just that, a belief, or if you prefer, an opinion. If you start throwing in entities like Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc., then you're bringing in religion. Think of the non-denominational services in the military. Last I heard, opinions or a belief have not yet been forbidden, in or out of government. In regards to this article, if someone wants to follow this prayer with a discourse on the beauty of a Frisbee in flight, have at it.
so many thoughts…first our country was founded on Christian principles. Thankfully because they guided the writing of our Constitution and the decisions our leaders have made during the first 210 or so years of our existence. I would say we have done pretty well since we declared our independence from the British. I do find it ironic that during the past 5-10 yeas as we remove godly values (any god), our country is more divisive than ever before.
Secondly, as for prayer in a public setting, regardless who says, "guys, let's take a moment and pray for 'Johnny' who got carried off the field…." we should not worry about somebody's feelings if they don't believe in a god. If the ungodly person does not want to take a knee and be part of the team, have a backbone and walk away. If it is a person in the stands and is an atheist, show some maturity and stand there and think to yourself, "look at those dumb people praying." Quit trying to restrict Americans from doing what they wish (the majority of Americans).
Lastly, I recall a phrase from the 80's that echoes my sentiments: America, love it leave it. Our country is not perfect, but I detest those trying to change the very fabric that we chose to clothe our country in. Mexico would be a great place for you to go to – they have plenty of housing there due to the immigrants crossing into the US – start there please.
Devil is busy busy..
If you are offended by the prayer at the games, then don't go to the games.
The original 1st Amendment says that "the government shall be no respecter of religion", meaning that the government could not tell us how and what to worship to avoid creating a theocracy. It was after Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black retranslated the Thomas Jefferson's quote "wall of seperation between church and state" in the case ~Everson v. Board of Education~ when this phrase started being misused. I'm sick of this crap "Oh no, they're praying and I'm offended. It's time to sue." People are too easily offended in this country, this is becoming a nation of pussies! Grow a set of balls, or grow a spine and deal with the fact that other people are going to do things you don't like. Don't want to be part of the tradition?,,, well then it's a free country and you're free to attend another university as much as these kids are free to pray! As for me, I will worship and pray to God anywhere I want and I don't care if it offends anyone! The original 1st Amendment says that "the government shall be no respecter of religion".
BRAVO BRYAN! I agree 100% buddy! We are a nation of pussies who roll over for every twit who is offended by ANYTHING! The tail is wagging the dog and it's time to put an end to it!!!
Well said Bryan..Its time people stood up to this group and put them in their place
Most of those people ignore the "prohibit the free exercise thereof". This country was founded by people who left England to practice their faith without worrying about being put in jail or put to death for not following the Church of England, which was an established religion by the government. Hmmmm. Maybe that's why we have the first amendment…. This country was also founded by the faith in God. He is mentioned many times in the Declaration of Independance. Nowhere is Allah mentioned…
I agree, you summarized everything I said.
Ashley – The Declaration of Independence is NOT our legal basis. It is a historical document. That's – it. It's basically just a "F U" to England and the government. Do you notice there is no mention of God in the Constitution – which IS our the basis of our laws? I get so tired of people who point to the Declaration as our Founders were Christian. The majority of them were not Christian – they were spiritual or deists. Also Thomas Jefferson had a great admiration for Islam and you will notice he re-wrote the Bible taking out all the mysticism, supernatural events, etc. The country was founded to allow people to worship – OR NOT WORSHIP – freely.
@ Ashley and Kelly: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."… 1st Amendment to the US Constitution.
We were not founded on democracy as many people think… When John Adams was finished signing off on the Constitution he was asked "Mr. Adams what have you given us?" To which he replied "A republic ma'am… if you can keep it". We were founded as a republic (a nation of laws) not a democracy (a nation of man w/o law). People forget the Bill of Rights which has the 1st 10 Amendments is your contract of laws for protection from the FEDERAL government, and that is all this amendment originally states (I defer to the first amendment).
Freedom From Religion Foundation, you are offended by ONLY-TWO words, Jesus Christ. You, FFRF, are offended by who He say's HE is: GOD! You, FFRF, are offended because He died on a cross, paying the price for your sins, and everyone else. You, FFRF, are offended because He was buried and ROSE from the dead, and is "now", seated at the right-hand [authority] of God. And because of this, you, FFRF, have the 'freedom' to act like, fools, of which you, FFRF, are proving Him more and more to be who He says He is! In the future, you, FFRF, are going to bow-down and confess with your very tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Bryan – I know America is not a democracy. We're a constitutional republic. Key word – Constitution. I was making the point that everyone wants to point to the Declaration as evidence that our nation is a Christian one or founded on Christianity. But it's not. IF the Founders wanted this nation to be a Christian one, they would have PUT it in the Constitution. They did not. There is not mention of God in it. Oh wait – there is one mention of "Lord" – in the date the Constitution was signed because that's how they signed dates as "year of our Lord…" That's what I was pointing out. I know the Constitution protects us from the government. I also know people take the 1st Amendment waaay too far. It does not provide for unlimited speech. I'm not sure why you felt that I thought any differently.
Tom Kopper No one is "offended" by God or Jesus or Muhammaad or any other prophet or any other god. The only thing people get offended by are when sometimes there are people who push their religion into other people's faces – whether it be Christians, Muslims, etc.
You can believe in Jesus, that he's the son of God and all that but everyone in the world does not agree with you. Not all religions believe that. Also no one can be made to "bow down" and "confess" that Jesus Christ is Lord. Whatever happens to someone when he or she dies, that person deals with what there is or isn't. Why do you care what someone believes?
@Kelly: Actually I'm agreeing with you for the most part and I never suggested that you were implying that 1st Amendment was unlimited freedom of speech (re: Espionage Act of 1917, and Seditions act of 1918). However, the reason for Freedom of Religion was put into place because many states were dictating how their citizens were to worship after states gained their own sovereignty after the Revolution. This is the reason for freedom of religion in this country,,, aside from the theocracy we originally had under the crown. People overlook what was happening between the end of the war in 1781 and the Constitutional convention in 1787. This is what prompted the Constition, not (primarily) what we endured under the crown.
Bryan Linnenkugel
You are so uneducated that you can't even QUOTE the First Amendment correctly. You are exactly the type of person that NO ONE should listen to about the Constitution.
LOL!
When are we as a nation going to stand up and tell these organizations to shut up and get their nose out of God's business! I am personally sick and fed up with it! There is nothing in the Conbstitution or The Bill of Rights that say anthing about separation of Church and State. This LIE was put on us by a Supreme Court that had been Legislating from the bench for years. WAKE UP AMERICA! As far as I am concerned I will Pray in public or private anytime I want to. I follow God not man!
There is NO such clause in the Constitution that says there is a separation between church and state the constitution says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
It was only 9 people that sits on the "Supreme Court" that has so broadly expanded the meaning of "Congress" to include any entity that in anyway gets money from a governmental body. In 1994 David Souter broadened it even more broadly. I cannot not believe the people of the United States allow only 9 people to tells us what the words the framers of the United States Constitution meant! Remember the 'Supreme' court is picked by politicians! I think courts and politicians (totalling far less that 1% of the population) have WAAAAY to much power over 300+ million people.
There is NO such clause in the Constitution that says there is a separation between church and state the constitution says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
It was only 9 people that sits on the "Supreme Court" that has so broadly expanded the meaning of "Congress" to include any entity that in anyway gets money from a governmental body. In 1994 David Souter broadened it even more broadly. I cannot not believe the people of the United States allow only 9 people to tells us what the words the framers of the United States Constitution meant! Remember the 'Supreme' court is picked by politicians! I think courts and politicians (totalling far less that 1% of the population) have WAAAAY to much power over 300+ million people.
Separation of church and state is a myth that is constantly perpetuated. 1st amendment… "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That's the law. This group is trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion. Read the Bill of Rights.
Separation of church and state is a myth that is constantly perpetuated. 1st amendment… "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That's the law. This group is trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion. Read the Bill of Rights.
Send a letter of support to the Chancellor.
Send a letter of support to the Chancellor.
screw them do it anyway, it is time to stand up for something, we pray at our school and if someone does not like it tough, then move on down the road.
"Students at the public university are in favor of keeping the tradition."
Great reporting. All students? Really? Come on.
"Students at the public university are in favor of keeping the tradition."
Great reporting. All students? Really? Come on.
Wait until some football team does a Moslim prayer. See what the Christians do then. The problem isn't prayer the problem is it isn't fair.
These objectors have the option of NOT coming to the event just as they have the option of changing the channel on TV or the radio. Or,…they can come late to miss the invocation AND the National Anthem.
They also have the option of going to an Atheist event where there is no prayer or respect or morals or ethics. It's their CHOICE to attend the event. or not!
There are more of us than them so where do they get off trying to force their immoral view on the rest of us? Go Dave!!!!!
So they can't come to see their children play in an event because they don't believe the same thing as you? How does everyone know it's atheists? There are plenty of other religions that do not believe the same as Christians. I think it's funny how Christians – or I should say "Christians" – tell someone who disagrees with them to "just leave" if you don't like it. Usually people attend events like high school athletics or concerts because they have CHILDREN in them.
Close your eyes and plug your ears if you think you might be offended!
What I find amazing is that people that don't believe in God would be offended by a prayer, since in their opinion, it is pointless words to no one! If someone stood up before a game and said we love Wal-Mart, and it is a great place to shop, Amen…no one would say a thing, so what's the difference to an atheist?
When a government comes to a game with guns and forces a prayer to Obama or to Allah or to Christ, that's one thing, but an opening prayer for the welfare and wellbeing of players on both sides of the ball, is harmless to the atheist, and uplifting to the spiritual. You can hold your ears, go to the bathroom, talk, listen to your radio, or laugh…no one is forcing you to do anything. When a politician or President invokes God's help, is the State going to arrest him? What about free speech. Isn't a prayer free speech, and isn't this a Nation where the majority rules?
It said in the last days, there would be a fierce attack on religion, and those that worshipped God! The fact that such a thing would even take place is a testimonial to how much, as a Country, and as a people we are slipping into a moral and spiritual morass.
These kind of prayer (God) opposition groups are the same people who lobby to "save the whales" and turn right around and lobby for abortion rights. Hmmmm, save the whales but murder a fetus. What a diametrical opposition in their own beliefs, a glittering gem of colossal ignorance.
I admire your biblical citation of last days… I see the examples every day. I'm prayed up and ready for God to beam me up before he lowers the boom.
For what it's worth, at the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis they offer a prayer before every football game.
If you do not like prayer, DO NOT pray, plug your ears and Go AWAY!
Ron – Someone can say the same for people who don't like those who are non-religious. So you're telling me if I'm at an event that my kid is in, and we're not religious, that WE have to plug our or ears or leave? And it's a PUBLIC event? Um no. Sorry. I tend to just ignore it but I shouldn't have to. Would you be so willing to allow Muslim or any other religion prayer before an event?
Honestly, if people think they need to pray to god for a football – or any athletic event – you need to get your priorities straight. Pretty sure god has more important things to worry about then your kid's football game.
If someone in Wisconsin doesn't like it then stay in Wis onsin! Like all the other comments why do we let these groups win? The best thing the university can do is ignore the letter. Open your game in Sept. With prayer! God bless you!