Feb 1, 2012
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Christian student organizations at Vanderbilt University may be forced to go underground or meet in secret after university officials doubled down on a policy that bans student religious groups from requiring their leaders to hold specific beliefs, according to a law professor at the university.
Vanderbilt said their nondiscrimination policy ensure that campus groups are open to all students. But opponents said the ban restricts their freedom of speech and could force some nationally-known groups off campus.
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“There are people on campus who are very threatened by the idea of religious freedom and they would like to create an environment where no one hurts anyone else’s feelings – unless it’s Christians,” said Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt law professor and the advisor to the Christian Legal Society.
The Christian Legal Society is one of four campus groups – including the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Beta Upsilon Chi and Graduate Student Fellowship – that are currently in violation of the policy.
Swain told Fox News & Commentary that all four groups could lose their standing as registered student organizations.
“This political correctness is running amuck on campus and its constraining one group – and that group tends to be conservatives,” Swain said. “They will be forced to either accept the university’s policy or leave campus by the end of the academic year. They are in limbo.”
Vanderbilt University launched a review of the charters and constitutions of all student organizations last year after a complaint was filed against a Christian fraternity, said Beth Fortune, Vanderbilt’s vice chancellor of public affairs.
Fortune said the university determined the Christian fraternity had discriminated against a student based on sexual orientation.
“Our nondiscrimination policy applies equally to all registered student organizations,” Fortune said. “We’re simply saying if you are going to be a registered student organization and use the Vanderbilt name and university funding, and have the privileges afforded a registered student organization, then you need to comply with our nondiscrimination policy.”
Swain said what is happening to Christian students at Vanderbilt is scary, accusing the university of bullying people of faith.
Swain said the university forced the Christian Legal Society to remove Bible verses and the words “Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior” from their constitution.
“We tried to work with the university,” she said. “We made numerous compromises; even taking out the faith statement about Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.”
But Swain said they drew a line in the sand when Vanderbilt “said that Christian leaders could not be asked to lead Bible study or worship.”
“That’s a key function of a Christian leader in a Christian organization,” she said.
Fortune denied the university was going after Christians.
“We don’t see that we are targeting Christians or religious organizations,” she said. “It is our hope and our desire and our goal to work with every registered student organization that they can come into compliance.”
The university held a town hall meeting Tuesday to discuss the policy. It was packed with students opposed to the crackdown on religious freedom.
“We want to be able to elect our leaders based on our beliefs,” former Vanderbilt student body president Joseph Williams said in a report published in The Tennessean.
A Chinese student who attends an underground church in his home country appealed to the university for answers on what would happen if he joined a campus group in violation of the policy. Swain said the student shared what it was like belonging to an underground church.
“He asked the university what would happen if the Christian student groups were forced to meet secretly,” Swain said. “The provost joked, ‘We won’t send you to Duke.’”
Fortune said unregistered student groups will not be banned from campus.
“They are allowed to exist and freely assemble,” she said. “But they would not be a registered student organization.”
The Tennessean reported that during the town hall gathering Provost Richard McCarty said the university would not back down from its policy. He explained that their policy allows students to vote for whomever they like – they just can’t have written rules that would ban students from running for office if they don’t hold specific beliefs.
So why not just vote for people who share your beliefs?
Swain said that argument doesn’t hold water.
“This encourages students to engage in deception and infiltration and it takes away their rights to be with like-minded people,” she said. “It’s very easy for people to conceal their beliefs and if the wrong person is elected and starts disrupting the organization, there’s nothing that can be done other than to dissolve the organization and start over the following year.
As it now stands, the organization Swain advises, along with the other three groups have a choice – they can either accept the university’s crackdown on religion – or leave the campus by the end of the academic year.
“I think we should stand strong on principle,” Swain said. “We need leaders who understand the purpose of an organization and who are passionate and are willing to fight for a set of values and principles.”
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I'm an atheist but I support these Christian groups and their right to practice their religion freely. I wouldn't want a university to bar organizations reflecting my (lack of) beliefs. I agree with rooting out discrimination but not to the extent that it compromises the essence of an organization and results in de facto discrimination against such an organization.
I remember when you went to college to get an education. Now all you get is indoctrinated in socialism, and the ultra tolerant liberal diversity political correctness movement. Anyone care to know the origins of polictical correctness? Here's a clue? read the communist manifesto and the words of Carl Marx the hero of our modern day colleges and universities. God Bless America!
I remember when you went to college to get an education. Now all you get is indoctrinated in socialism, and the ultra tolerant liberal diversity political correctness movement. Anyone care to know the origins of polictical correctness? Here's a clue? read the communist manifesto and the words of Carl Marx the hero of our modern day colleges and universities. God Bless America!
What are you ready to give up for Jesus?, Were about to find out.
No cost christianitiy is about to end!
The cost may be everything.
Maybe they can end that young life cult. They dragged my sister into that.
Discrimination based on religious principles is still anti-American, and bigotry still bigotry.
I am a member of, and attend a Church, that disagrees with your hatemongering, because that is what any kind of discrimination leads to.
I believe it is the soul that defines the person, not their outward shell.
I thought Jesus said there are no sexes in heaven.
It's discrimination based not what a group of people believe, or what they are wearing, but what they are..
If this is a war on Christianity, it's psudo-Christianity, and the followers of this radical Christian Taliban wonder why people who believe in the Golden Rule oppose them in favor of individual conscience and tolerance, and see a war against groups that they want to marginalize or put back in the closet or back alley.
Many Americans oppose the practice of selective exclusion. Some groups actually want to incorporate 'specific' religious beliefs into laws, with the sole goal to marginalize people or groups who do not share their particular faith.
In a pluralistic, and increasingly pluralistic America, this is counterproductive.
They do not understand that America is about freedom, liberty and individual rights.
Groups that oppose tolerance and individual freedom of conscience I will always oppose.
We left Caesaropapism back in Medieval Europe, I thought.
"bullying people of faith"….I had to laugh at that statement.
Historically speaking, in religious conflicts it usually has been the reverse, and instead of bullying, the sentence often has been torture or/and burnt at the stake for being a witch, atheist, freethinker or member of a different faith.
I read the Constitution, Bill of Rights differently……These principles of tolerance are to protect us from tyrants and religious conflicts which often leads to religious tyranny..
Oh Cathy, I read the Bible and believe in a God too….I just read things differently. I don't need your interpretation, I have my own.
I don't expect to get many likes, but if you want fair and balanced it is only fair you hear the other side.
Interesting fact: The university drew national attention in 1966 when it recruited Perry Wallace, the first African American athlete in the Southeastern Conference. Wallace, from Nashville, played varsity basketball for Vanderbilt from 1967–1970, and faced considerable opposition from segregationists.
Not the first time the University has stood up against intolerance.
I liked the way they described the continued meetings to be 'forced to go underground or meet in secret'.
Sounds like the Freemasons…..lol
Interesting fact: The university drew national attention in 1966 when it recruited Perry Wallace, the first African American athlete in the Southeastern Conference. Wallace, from Nashville, played varsity basketball for Vanderbilt from 1967–1970, and faced considerable opposition from segregationists.
Not the first time the University has stood up against intolerance.
I am arguing in principle, of course, as it is a private, not public University, and they are free to do as they want.
If it was private fundamentalist college, I'd expect it would be the other way around….I would not expect they would allow Gay rights or Pro-choice or ACLU related organizations. They would find some way to force them to go underground or meet in secret. But much as I disagree, they would be within their rights too.
Most people on this Fox site would agree with that bias, but it works both ways.
More destruction of America by liberal.
So how exactly would a non-Christian actually be elected by the Christian student group to the position of president or leader of the group?
TEST
Vanderbilt is probably filled with Jerry Sandusky's as Penn State.
Melvin Leppla – That doesn't even make sense.
The inmates are indeed running the institutions, especially Vanderbilt: “University officials enforce a policy that bans student religious groups from requiring their leaders to hold specific beliefs.” WHAT? Religions ARE SPECIFIC BELIEFS. Bing dictionary definition of religion: a set of strongly held beliefs, values, and attitudes. http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/university-defends-crackdown-on-religious-groups.html
We (believers of Christ) are in the world but not of it. The world hates us because they hate our Lord Jesus Christ. So why are we surprised if we are shunned by the world? Who cares if the universities don't want to acknowledge you because you reject their teachings? This is a great thing for these students to experience. You don't need to be recognized by the universities. In fact, I find it disappointing that it was the university that had to initiate this separation. There will come a time when the US Govt will no longer give the Christian organizations their tax-breaks if they adhere to the teachings of Christ. Sadly, many Christian organizations will abandon the faith but will continue to display the appearance of godliness. If every University follows through with their policy like Vanderbilt then the Christian student organizations will no longer be recognized in the US. Ironically, the universities will continue to recognize Muslim student organizations instead! LOL
Forcing religious organizations to allow "non-believers" to be leaders and not allowing them to live by the dictates of their faith is religious discrimination. Imagine if a large group of Christians joined a Muslim fellowship and voted themselves into leadership. How do the new rules protect religious minorities? At Vandy, Evangelicals are a huge minority. They need protection in order to maintain their identity and celebrate their faith. Majority rule always leads to injustice. In this case, academic elite lack the ability and motivation to be self-critical. It appears that Vandy does not want Evangelicals to be evangelical. This is the tyranny of liberalism.
Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive. Whereas there are those you have been raised Christian who also are gay.
Point being, religious freedom requires that religious organizations be free to pick their leaders and decide who qualifies as a member. You do not have to agree with their choices. That is why American enshrines religious freedom. Evidently, Vandy does not.
The claims of freedom of religion being under attack are simply ludicrous. America is a secular republic. Freedom of religion is an essential component of liberty, granted. But religious freedom doesn't include the right to deny, diminish, or eliminate; the rights of others. I cannot imagine someone wanting to join a faith based group, who doesn't share the same beliefs; much less run for leadership of the group. Vanderbilt has a moral & legal obligation to ensure equality. This smacks of the absurd claims of a "war" on Christianity, & on Christmas, in America. When first established; the USA did not celebrate Christmas. It was almost a century before Congress proclaimed it a federal holiday, following the Revolutionary War. Some of the earliest settlers of note, viewed freedom of religion with unbridled disdain. When the pilgrims of Plymouth Rock fame fled Britain seeking the freedom to practice their beliefs unhindered; they found that freedom in…..Holland. But they also encountered freedom for all faiths, which they weren't prepared to accept, so they headed to the new world. Some things never change.
I'd like to add: the comments about "sexual perversion" are about as uninformed & devoid of understanding as one will encounter in the 21st century. Homosexuality is far more about who one falls in love with; than specific sex acts. The distorted attitudes , however, create & nurture; the negative mindset that is the aetiology of endemic violence & bloodshed. The Prince of Peace will not be pleased with such judgements & denigrations, I'm sure. But, please remember a statement of wisdom from the SCOTUS in a ruling of some years ago: They said: " At the heart of liberty is the right to define ones own concept of existence, of the meaning of the universe, & of the mystery of human life."
John 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you". Rejoice in persecution fellow Christians, it adds more validity to the word of God. Let them hate for hates sake, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
This is pure trash. This university will burn with the hell it so adamantly craves for. Who cares what this stupid university says. Christians are going to have Christian leadership and people who believe strongly in Christian values as their members and leaders. These atheist commies are going to hell and can't tell anyone what they can't or can do. They are violating the freedom of religion we enjoy in America and should be taken up on discrimination charges! Down with you evil scum!
@Steve Baldassari – Wow really? "This university will burn in hell…" Well see since the groups are part of the university, then they HAVE to care what the university says. "Atheist commies?" Really? No one is violating freedom of religion. Do you seriously think that someone who is non-Christian will try to lead a Christian group? I doubt it. You're so over-dramatic.
Besides universities, what other inanimate objects burn in a lake of fire for eternity? How do you know this? Is this also in your book?
Kelly Calder Hey Kelly put a lid on your stupid talk. No one wants to hear you rant about stuff that is incoherent. Yes, REALLY! They will burn in hell if they keep trying to support an evil agenda and discriminate against Christianity. The groups are part of the university but the university is not above the law of the land and the rights of the American people. Those rights include freedom of religion. To be free means that if I am Christian and part of a Christian group that I can determine who is best to run my own "religions" group. Everyone is violating freedom of religion. You are just offended because you are probably one of the commie atheists I speak of. I absolutely think someone who is non-Christian would try to lead a Christian group. They would make a big stink and cry foul if they weren't allowed to. Also, if they wouldn't why should it be allowed. The mere idea of considering the allowance of it is blasphemy and show that the university thinks they are above God and above our Constitution. You just put your foot in your mouth…hope it tastes good. You are so naive and confused.
Tim Gale Tim you think you are funny but really you are just the laughing stalk of all those who have a clue in this world. You see we read your ignorant posts and come to realize that you just simply aren't educated and really have no idea what you are talking about. It's OK we'll let you pass and just pretend you didn't type anything but just this once because if we have to listen to it any more times then well there will be no free passes. I know this through faith…something you can't comprehend because you are so narrow minded and angry at God because you just don't get what you want out of your life. WAAA WAHHHH!
Steve Baldassari Really? No one wants to hear ranting about stuff that is incoherent? Well then obviously no one wants to hear from you. Are you god? Are you a deity? Then how do you know if someone or something will go to hell? Can an inanimate object actually burn in hell? If it’s a private college, they can make whatever rules they want to. They don’t get federal funding.
Please show proof that they are “violating religious freedom.” I absolutely don’t think someone non-Christian would lead a Christian group? Why? They wouldn’t get anything done. Do you even know what the word blasphemy means? LOL you are the most ignorant person I think who has ever commented on here. YOU are the naïve and confused one. Get over yourself.
Steve Baldassari You do realize you sound like a 10 year old right?
Kelly Calder Again, yes, REALLY DUMB DUMB! Incoherent…is that too big of a word for your ignorant mind to understand? Everyone wants to hear from me. That is why you so quickly responded when you did hear from me. You are interested in what I have to say. Just own up to it. Again foot inserted into mouth. Who said I was God? Did I? No! What do you just randomly say dumb things and then think it is worth reading. If so, you are mistaken sister. I know because the Bible says that anti-Christ means anti-heaven. It's quite simple. If you don't like it, then that is just tough. You have to accept truth for what it is whether you like it or not. That is the way it works so go cry about it. The foundation of the Inanimate object can burn in hell and the foundation of a university isn't the bricks it's the people who are behind it. You wouldn't'/Couldn't understand that though…it's OK we understand…you just aren't that smart. If it is a Private college they cannot make whatever rules they want because they still can't discriminate against Christianity…more dumb one liners from you. Not getting federal funding doesn't mean you can ignore the constitution durrr! Can you understand that or is that too much to ask? Freedom of religion is "The right of citizens to hold any religious or non-religious beliefs" that is where there is a violation because Christians believe in God and take that more serious than life itself. For someone to tell them that they have to have someone be in charge of their group who is not fervent for God is like they are slapping them in the face and God. God chooses Christian leaders not private universities. Do I even know what the word blasphemy means…what kind of retarded question is that? Even if I didn't use it properly in the context of the sentence I wrote (which by the way I did so obviously I do understand its meaning), I could google the meaning if I didn't. You by no means are a scholar or a dictionary. You are the most deceived person I have ever communicated with. You call me ignorant when I know exactly what I am talking about. I call you deceived because you are blinded by the ways of this world. What are we in second grade…I say something and you say "I know you are but what am I." In your words…REALLY! I am over myself but what I am not over is how I can't help but wonder how someone could be so unaware of how things work in the world today and how they are supposed to work. You and others like you are exactly what is wrong with this country/world and your ways of thinking must be eliminated for this world to stand a chance of recovering from the UnGodliness and immorality that you fill it with.
Kelly Calder You do realize your one line comeback in no way makes you any more right about things that you said don't you?
Steve Baldassari LMAO!!! LOL!!! Wow you are HI-LARIOUS! So you’re calling me ignorant? Wow. NO ONE wants to hear from you. So quickly responded? I just happen to be on Facebook and I got a notification. So I responded. I don’t know who you are. YOU act like you’re a god because you are saying people or things are going to “burn in hell.” How can you possibly know that? You can’t. The bible says no such thing. You need to read it again.
You’re right I don’t understand you and I don’t think I ever will since I’m not 10. No one is ignoring the Constitution. I said the government can’t mandate them to do certain things. To quote you “DURRRR.” That’s real mature. Did you think of that yourself or is some fifth grader helping you write this? No wait if they were, it would actually be more intelligent.
OMG I did not say “I know you are but what am I” that’s how YOU are acting. Ungodliness and immorality? I probably have more morals in my pinky than you have. LOL grow up man.
Steve Baldassari I'm not trying to be "right." I'm asking you if you realize how immature you sound? Wow…
Kelly Calder What's the matter? Nothing to say? Ohh, guess it's because well I am right and you are wrong. No matter what else you have to say right will always be right and wrong will always be wrong and you mi amiga are so very very wrong.
Steve Baldassari Are you illiterate? What do you mean "Nothing to say?" I posted two replies to you. The one where I laughed my ass of at you (LMAO). I know it's hard to read big words but you'll get it someday.
Kelly Calder Oh that was rich you tool. I guess you win huh? I guess you got me now because you wrote LMAO and I guess you think your dumb abbreviations mean it's OK to live your sinful, wicked lifestyle and stand against God and Christianity. I guess…but just maybe you are a blithering idiot.
Steve Baldassari You don't even know me!! So how do you know I live a "wicked, sinful" lifestyle? You think you're perfect because you CLAIM to be a Christian? You're not perfect. No one is. Christianity does not mean you are awesome, or that you'll go to heaven, or anything. I know plenty of Christians and you sir, are not a Christian. Good day.
Kelly Calder Last I responded after your two responses so you are the illiterate one here…once again….foot inserted into mouth! My goodness you are definitely good at doing that. It's just too bad you aren't as good at realizing what Freedom of Religion is…what a shame. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Steve Baldassari You said "What's the matter nothing to say?" So why would you ask that if you read it? Don't worry, I'll continue to wear the uniform and sacrifice so you can be a blithering idiot. And I said GOOD DAY!!
Kelly Calder I asked because I responded to your two posts and then you didn't say anything…ahh are you alright? Is that brain bulb illuminated? You wearing a uniform doesn't mean you sacrifice anything for me. It means you serve someone else. I serve God and you serve a corrupt nation. Now, I commend serving period but don't' be mistaken here sister my uniform is the breast plate of righteousness and the sword of the spirit. You just wear camouflage. Where did the army talk come from? Am I supposed to feel bad for you because your views are wrong and take my beliefs back because you serve in the Army. I have plenty of friends who serve and plenty in my family have served as well. I don't a lecture on the Army. Why did you join anyways? Was it because you were desperate to find something in your life…did you feel like something was missing and you didn't know where to go or turn so you resorted to joining the Army? That is what most do. That feeling of emptiness or that something is missing is God missing from your life. If only you realized that and decided to serve him and be in his Army instead of joining the U.S. Army, then you would have been better off. Now, all else aside, be careful and don't get killled but pull that wool from over your eyes and see the world for what it is supposed to be not for what the liberal atheists and their UnGodly agenda want you to see it as. I have all day and I am not going anywhere so keep responding.
Vanderbilt is a private school which means it is NOT tax funded. This means they have more of right to decide who they want to support and who not to support, but from reading this article and a few other about this same topic, you can see that they do not want to have their name on any group who discriminate against people. This does not mean they hate Christians or Muslims, this does not make them terrorist supporters, and no one is starting a war on Religion.
more of a right*
Well, I identify myself as a Christian, but I have to tell you, I have never felt threatened or "picked on" by non-Christians – in fact, the folks who've shown the most prejudice towards me have been my fellow "Christians" who've let me know I'm going to hell, and that if I'm a liberal/progressive I can't really call myself a Christian, and who've dished out heaps of hate, bigotry, and self-righteous indignation upon my gay and atheist friends. The article says: "Vanderbilt said their nondiscrimination policy ensure that campus groups are open to all students." So, if I'm reading this right, it seems to me that if all these groups just open their doors to everyone – atheists and gays included – they won't be shut down. And if these groups choose not to do that, then there's nothing stopping them from meeting off-campus.
"A Chinese student who attends an underground church in his home country appealed to the university for answers on what would happen if he joined a campus group in violation of the policy. Swain said the student shared what it was like belonging to an underground church.." LOLOLOLOL! That Chinese student is ME!
Here's the deal people – if Vanderbilt would have been a religious school – like many of the Catholic Schools around the country (Notre Dame – Georgetown – Villanova, etc) or like a Christian School (Like SMU, TCU, LibrettyU) then this group could proclaim "Jesus Is Lord" all they want in my opinion – it fits in with the general philosophy of the school – no matter how descriminating it is.
Vanderbilt is NOT a religious college so they get to tell the religious types to take a hike if they decide to discriminate against anyone as well they should – whether the parties being discriminated against are gay, Jewish, Muslim, Black, Asian, etc.
If those int eh religious groups don't like the policy – there is a metaphorical door – use it and go to another college – ain't nothing holding you there.
And I have a question – as a HETEROsexual male – what exactly makes being a homosexual a perversion? Just becaue some 1000's of years old yahoo lost in a desert said so? Did Jesus say so? I don't recall that he ever did – Paul was preaching against any and all sexual perversions engaged in by the Romans and Greeks of his day with took the away from God – be they gay, bisexual or straight perversions – so he's out of the game – trust me – I know some straihght people who are way more perverse than some gays I know. Give up the Perversion game people – and go back to the actual "Christian philosophy and teaching" – settled in one word – LOVE. All I see coming out of these "Christian" groups s hate.
Homosexuality has been around for more years than the Bible has existed – you're either born that way you're not – simple as that and no one should be discriminated against because they were born a certain way. It's hard for me to not discriminate against bigotted, "Christian", douchbags who think their way is the only way becuase no one is actually born that way – they have to have learned that idiocy but I try my damndest every day.
when will you crazy christians STOP using the "Bible" as a WEAPON? first of all and most importantly of all the BIBLE IS NOT a book of the US Government. It is not the constitution and it is not applicable to all americans. it is an ancient script that was put together over hundreds of years by thousands of people. there is NOTHING "inerrant" about it. quite contrary, it is frequently errant! and contradictory not to mention inconsistent. I do no subscribe to its writing and therefore you cannot use it towards me or any non christian as if it were relevant. PERIOD. you can't even live up to it's teaching yourself. The US is not a theocracy. it is a secular nation. just practice love, compassion, charity and kindness toward others. "preach the Gospel every day, if necessary, use words" (st. Francis of Asissi 1224) and "act justly, love tenderly and walk humbly with your God". (Micah).
It is quite obvious the direction of our universities have gone, and it doesn't look good if one is a Christian. Vandy is following the way of many universities of being PC and freedom away from religion, not freedom of religion. Thank goodness by children have gotten their college ed when they did and had no interest into Vandy or others that have gone to the left wing PC garbage. I would have been very disappointed if they did. Now, Vandy could start seeing a lack of support for their dumb stance, and possibly others will follow suit. Notre Dame and like minded universities could be next.
I think that graduate student group needs to admit undergraduates, the honor society needs to quit discriminating against D students, and the football team needs to let quadraplegics play. I also don't think it is fair that faculty members have to have any education. But in a country in which we don't really know if the President is really a natural-born citizen, I guess anyone ought to be allowed as free access as a girl joining Boy Scouts, or a boy joining the Brownies.
All the above comments can be considered "tongue in cheek", but the principle involved is serious.
All the above comments can be considered "tongue in cheek", but the principle involved is serious.
Stand for right and take the fight—soon all that serve Jesus will suffer persecutions—a blood bath is on the way if Americans don't repent and worship and honor the Man that made us all—Yeshua the Christ—we worship you Lord Jesus—we honor and adore you forever more! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
On Vanderbilt's website they list the following: Cultural Student Organizations, Asian American Student Association, Caribbean Student Association, Muslim Student Association, National Black MBA Association, Vanderbilt Association of Hispanic Students, Vanderbilt Undergraduate Chinese Association. So this means according to their policy, that it "applies to ALL registered student organizations" A white person can join any one of these groups, and failure to allow them to not only join, but run for elected office within these groups, is illegal? OK conservatives, go join the Muslim Student one, or the Asian one, how about a white person go join Black MBAA Assoc, if you have an MBA It would be discrimination if they refuse, on the same basis..
Don't let the Gov become God. Obviously their intent.