Dec 17, 2011
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As many as 5,000 attended a rally in a small Texas community to show their support for a Nativity scene under attack by a Wisconsin-based atheist group, according to a minister who organized the event.
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“We are humbled at the turnout of the crowd,” said Nathan Lorick, the pastor of the First Baptist Church in Malakoff and one of the organizers of Saturday’s rally in Athens.
“We believe that God led us to do this and so we knew he was up to something great,” he told Fox News & Commentary in an email message. “This message is resonating in the hearts of people all over the country. This was a real statement to the nation that Christians are tired of the persecution and suppression. We want all to know that we are ready to contend for the faith.”
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a group based in Wisconsin, sent a letter to Henderson County explaining that a local resident had complained and they wanted the Nativity removed from the courthouse lawn.
The FFRF alleged that the Nativity sent a message of intimidation and exclusion to non-Christians.
But their attack prompted a tremendous outcry not just in Henderson County, but across the nation.
The Texas Attorney General offered to defend the county in the event the atheists sued, arguing that the county has no legal obligation to remove the Nativity scene from the courthouse grounds.
“Our message to the atheists is don’t mess with Texas and our Nativity scenes or the Ten Commandments,” Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News & Commentary. “I want the Freedom From Religion Foundation to know that our office has a history of defending religious displays in this state.”
Attorney General Abbott said the organization is trying to “bully local governmental bodies” and he said he wanted to make sure Henderson County knows “there is a person, a lawyer and an organization in this state that has their back, that has the law, that has the muscle and firepower to go toe-to-toe with these organizations that come from out of state trying to bully governmental bodies into tearing down things like Nativity scenes.”
Pastor Lorick said Saturday’s rally was peaceful and included speeches, patriotic music, Christmas carols and prayers. Nevertheless, he said they intended to send a message to the nation.
“It is time for Christians in America to stand up, show up and speak up,” he said. “We believe that it is time to lead America back to the biblical and Christian values and morals that have made our nation so great since its birth.”
Pastor Lorick said he’s received hundreds of calls and email from across the country — and he was overwhelmed by the size of Saturday’s crowd.
“I do hope that people across the nation will take note and know that they too can stand up and speak up,” Lorick said. “All I can tell you is that my eyes have been opened to a large number of people who want to see us fight for our faith.”
FOX News Talk
What a waste of time and energy… leave the fundies to their mythology as long as it does not become enforced as law and be done with it. But when a Muslim or Hindu steps up to add their own display, there should be not one murmur of discontent.
Or atheist for that matter.
Regarding the attempt to remove and/or vilify the nativity scene in Henderson County, TX:
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." -Jesus (Matt 5:11,12).
Don't be surprised by the negative remarks, Jesus said this would happen millennia ago. The world hated Him, of course they are going to hate us, too, and this is to His glory and our everlasting reward. Also remember to be patient with unbelievers, because it's also stated in the Bible that they cannot see the truth of God, and we all need his bountiful grace and mercy in equal measure, and how we respond to them may help turn them from their unbelief, as all of our lives are under Him whether we acknowledge it or not, for "every knee shall bow." As the old saying goes, we (our lives, words) may be the only Bible some of these folks have ever "read."
Those offensive scary nativities. The real truth, it reminds them of their sin and their need to repent. I know it is scary to know you are going to hell when you die. But if you repent and give your life to Jesus their is freedom from hell.
So 1 person complained so that means the Nativity scene needs to come down? Seriously? I call this Christophobia! And as a Christian I will not be silenced by biggoted Christophobes!
When the atheist group asked to put up a banner on the same property during the nativity scene display they were told by an official that no, they cannot. Why? Because this official didn't like the fact that the banner spoke negatively about religion. Some free country.
Was doing fine until the "PC era" of Clinton came around.
It's very clear. Athiests have a religion, this is a belief that there is no God. They are trying to use the government to impose their religion on everyone else by removing God.
The Constitution is very clear that they cannot do that. I'm glad it's Texas where the Judges won't give into the political lie that most courts have in the past, removing religious expression.
There's nothing wrong with religious expression but it is very wrong for our government to go into the preaching business.
It's not unconstitutional.
We don't just get to change the Constitution by suing.
If it were a Muslim expression, I may not like it, but I'd have no right to stop it.
Bryan Thelen Why do Christians fear Muslims?
Who fears muslims? I haven't read many of these comments, but I sure never said that.
Bryan Thelen That's just been the general consensus I gather, there are a lot of people saying the same about disliking Islam.
Bryan Thelen That's just been the general consensus I gather, there are a lot of people saying the same about disliking Islam.
Joseph Younger / I think you're misinterpreting my comment. I see how that could happen. My only point is that ALL expression of belief is protected. I wanted to give an example of how I also had no right to request that to be taken down.
Bryan Thelen: No, atheism is not a religion. Please look up the definition of the word. Atheism has no traditions, rules, practices. It is merely a word that means a person does not believe in a deity. That's all!
YES, CHRISTIANS, IT IS TIME TO TAKE A STAND. GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU.
THANK YOU RG MAFFEO.
For far too long, Christians have been the "only acceptable religious target" in America because of our faith in Jesus Christ & His Word, the Holy Bible. As Pastor Lorick said, "It is time for Christians in America to stand up, show up and speak up.” I'm with him! MERRY CHRISTMAS, USA!
Why do so many Christians have this persecution complex? They see it in every turn? Even if you just criticize something involving Christianity you're called a hater.
Bag the second question mark, please. A mistake. Should be a period.
…human intolerance..greed…people that just HAVE to be the center of attention to name a few……and it doesn't stop with religion. It goes on to attack any and every group of peoples….sad, but true.
Baloney. I'm Wiccan, and I am constantly a target of religious threats, jokes, etc. And, to top it all off, the US Senate tried to ban the practice of my religion in 1999 – with the support of the Christian right. And you claim to be the persecuted ones. That would be funny if it weren't so sad.
absolutely…..AMAZING!
The Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting [regarding] an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Has Congress made a law stating that Christianity is the religion of the United States? No, and the Federal Government has not established [or created] Christianity or any other religion. The second part of the Article states Congress cannot prohibit the free exercise thereof. So the people cannot be prohibited from the free exercise of their religion. The Texas Courthouse is not a Federal building nor is it on Federal land. Article 10 states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Since the Courthouse is not on Federal property and the Federal Government does not dictate the day to day activities on the property – the state (or the people) manages the land.
Thank you Texas and all other Americans for not backing down on your beliefs!
The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the Establishment Clause applies to the state and local governments as well.
Joe Gonzalez .. Not always- the U.S. Supreme Court, in Lynch v. Donnelly, reversed the two lower court decisions, deciding to allow Pawtucket to display the "creche." The "creche" the High Court said, did not violate the Constitution's Establishment Clause.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/22971/Lynch-v-Donnelly-Significance.html
Susan Oleson You missed the main sentence in that story. "
The display contained other items besides the "creche." Among the other items were a Christmas tree, colored lights, Santa Claus's home, and animal figures." It was displayed along with other secular decorations. It was not excusively Christian, and therefore Constitutional. The County Commissioner here refused to put up anything other than the nativity. That is why it runs afoul of the law. It is a very simple remedy.
Susan Oleson Also this one at the end: "Five years later, in a similar case the Supreme Court would rule differently. In 1989, in County of Allegheny v. ACLU the Supreme Court ruled that a "creche" displayed in a public building without anything else present in the display violated the Establishment Clause."
It is the context that makes all the difference to legality.
"For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Believe it or not, not everyone buys into virgin births, people being turned to salt and especially your God's lovely Second Commandment (basically a Mafia-like threat to love God or else you, and your next few generations will get it).
Ken Thor White …Hi Ken…I was born in PA…specifically Bradford, PA..(home of the Zippo lighters)…but have lived in the south for so long that I am one of them…And you know, you are correct..not everyone believes in a virgin birth..although I do…and people being turned to salt…but if you check with your archaelogists..they are forever verifying that the information in the bible is correct…but you have gone and done it now..I will be praying for you..that the Jesus who loves you and knew you while you were in your mother's womb…and has plans for your life…plans for good and not for evil…will reveal Himself to you and let you know how special you are to him…have a wonderful Christmas…
I just hope that if a piece of crap Judge intervenes the state of Texas will take the.
newt Gingrich approach and tell the judge to stick it up his ass.
We need to start telling Justices this all over the country.
Lets take the power back from these Morons.
Yeah, stupid judges who adhere to the Constitution. Let's do away with them.
Ken Thor White
The only problem with you Liberals are you only pick and chose your constitutional opionion does it not state that we are endowed by our creator. You guys kinda of forget that one.
Ken Thor White
The only problem with you Liberals are you only pick and chose your constitutional opionion does it not state that we are endowed by our creator. You guys kinda of forget that one.
FFRF, as one of my Iraqi Christian friends said, if you are offended at the Natvity, please come to the Middle East.
The more we let one religion creep toward our government the more WE will become the Middle East. Why don't people get that?
Been there, it's a garbage pit. It also shows what happens when everyone is a religious zealot.
Ken Thor White, the more people believe your rhetoric, the more we do become the Middle East. I know. I've been there on 3 tours.
Why aren't all of these atheists up in Detroit protesting against the Muslims? Yellow? As was written here earlier "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor preventing the free exercise thereof…" It would seem that, as atheists have no religion, the courts siding with them violates this by their orders to stop practicing the Christian religion. Seems these folks need to sue the FFRF for attempting to deny them their constitutional right to practice their religion.
"The Texas Attorney General offered to defend the county in the event the atheists sued, arguing that the county has no legal obligation to remove the Nativity scene from the courthouse grounds."————————————Really? The Texas Attorney General is under no legal obligation to remove the Nativity scene? Somebody must be. I think the Attorney General should revisit the Establishment Clause under the First Amendment. This nativity may be at odds with it. Check out this case: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1084590.html.
everyone should leave M. Bubba Blume alone with his beliefs…after all, he is an important person who takes pictures…that's so sweet.
We're going with personal attacks now? Does that mean you ran out of a good argument or is that always your first resort?
Nothing personal, just the truth
Ok, the FFRF is stating that they should not be forced to view religious manifestations of the Christmas holiday, and because of that, they think that they should be removed. Well, as Christians, we have to see non-religious aspects of the holiday every time we see a Christmas tree, Santa Claus, icicle lights and wreaths on houses, and Black Friday sales at retail stores that have no relation to any religion. Yet, we do not bring suit against them for not having Christian aspects displayed, we do not force them to put up a nativity scene, or anything like that. We simply make a decision whether or not we should have any of these items at our homes, or whether or not we should shop at any of these establishments. For a vocal minority to demand that a religious display should be removed simply becaus "we don't like it" is just too bad. If you don't like it, don't look at it, and don't celebrate Christmas (Christ, Mass, all religion inspired terms). Celebrate the harvest, Winter Solstice, Festivus, whatever you want. NO Christian is going to stop you, believe me. So stop attempting to stop us from celebrating what we believe.
Ok, the FFRF is stating that they should not be forced to view religious manifestations of the Christmas holiday, and because of that, they think that they should be removed. Well, as Christians, we have to see non-religious aspects of the holiday every time we see a Christmas tree, Santa Claus, icicle lights and wreaths on houses, and Black Friday sales at retail stores that have no relation to any religion. Yet, we do not bring suit against them for not having Christian aspects displayed, we do not force them to put up a nativity scene, or anything like that. We simply make a decision whether or not we should have any of these items at our homes, or whether or not we should shop at any of these establishments. For a vocal minority to demand that a religious display should be removed simply becaus "we don't like it" is just too bad. If you don't like it, don't look at it, and don't celebrate Christmas (Christ, Mass, all religion inspired terms). Celebrate the harvest, Winter Solstice, Festivus, whatever you want. NO Christian is going to stop you, believe me. So stop attempting to stop us from celebrating what we believe.
I'm sure you participate in every secular aspect of the Christmas holiday. As most Christians do….maybe that's why you're not offended?
Joseph Younger your point?
Dan Martin your point?
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. …
Joseph Younger
The problem isn't seeing religious displays. The problem is when government only allows one point of view. I see religious displays all the time and I think they're (usually) great. But when a local government violates the establishment clause, that is a problem.
Joseph Younger I don't understand…….this could be taken two different ways….are you greeing with me, challenging me, asking a question, what is the point of your comment? aSorry, I'm just not getting what it is that you are saying…….
Dan Martin I do apologize, I have had many people reply "your point" just for their lack of arguement. You stated that Christians have to look at the secular aspects of Christmas, i.e. Santa, Christmas trees, lights ect. I was just making an observation. Christians aren't offended by the secular displays because they also indulge in the Santa, Tree, Lights ect.
Simply put. In the USA, the majority rules. If the minorities like atheists don't like it. Too bad!
America's a republic, not a democracy. Don't like it, too bad.
I'm not as religious as some but more than others. Wisconsin, the FFRF and others like them should keep there dirt in there back yard and we will keep our Faith in ours. People of these United States are being suppressed by our own government and others. In our president's own words "IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE".
Those athiest forget it's a free country! I'm proud of the people in this small community!
Me too. I wish more people would stand up againest these sick morons
Me too. I wish more people would stand up againest these sick morons
Free for everyone right? Or just for the people who share your ideas?
Joseph Younger Free for everyone. If Athiest want to put up a Winter Solstice scene somewhere do it. Just don't make someone else, who believes as the Founders of our Country believed, take down a display.
Those athiest forget it's a free country! I'm proud of the people in this small community!
God Bless Texas.
We all have the God-given right to decide for ourselves which we will follow, be He Christ Jesus or our own little gods. We also have the right to decide for ourselves whether or not we wish to spend eternity in heaven or hell; and don't say, "I don't believe in heaven or hell.", because reality doesn't depend on our beliefs. If you are offended by a nativity scene, get over it. Y'all offend me daily with your nonsensical babal. Time is short and eternity is waiting. Decide to live or decide to die, it's up to you.
You know what really offends me? When government gets into the religion business, that's what. And if any of you folks cheering this on were true Americans, it would offend you too. And I'd LOVE to see these Christians should a Muslim group put a display there. Love to see it.
Thank you!
And I'd wager my retirement funds that no one defacated on a police car.
It is time that we stop letting a tiny number of people push us around. This country was founded on Christian principles. There is no such thing as separation of church in state, show me where that is found in the constitution. I say the next time some liberal nut Judge tries to make anybody take down a Nativity that we the people remove him or her from office immediately. This is a Christian Nation and if you do not like that go live somewhere else but you will no longer push your ignorance on the rest of us. There are no Atheist on a death bed.
I would like to see the look on those idiots faces in Wisconsin when this happened. Right about now there are people in Wisconsin going umm whoops. Texas rocks. If they can do it , anyone can and it's about time people stood up and made noise about this stupidity that always happens at this time of the year.
How dare those idiots in Wisconsin worry about our Constitution? What WERE they thinking? Thank "God" we have Texans who have no qualms about inching our country closer to a Christian theocracy.
It is time that we stop letting a tiny number of people push us around. This country was founded on Christian principles. There is no such thing as separation of church in state, show me where that is found in the constitution. I say the next time some liberal nut Judge tries to make anybody take down a Nativity that we the people remove him or her from office immediately. This is a Christian Nation and if you do not like that go live somewhere else but you will no longer push your ignorance on the rest of us. There are no Atheist on a death bed.
We're not a Christian country and Christians are no more important than any other citizen in it.
Sorry dude this is a Christian country and was founded that way. I know that your kind are trying to have history revision in our textbooks but you cannot change the truth. Also you are loved by a savior who died for you so that you might have life. I have met many people like you and they all have called out to God before they passed. I agree I am no more important than you but just as you, we will be allowed to display whatever we want because this is America. Whatever pain you have and or hate will not change that. We the silent majority are not going to be silent any longer.
Ken Thor White, you are so wrong.
You got Texas! Show the rest of the United States how it should be!
You Go TEXAS! Show the rest of The United States How it's done! Here is an ideal Let's move the Capital of the US to Texas! Then things might get right!
You Go TEXAS! Show the rest of The United States How it's done! Here is an ideal Let's move the Capital of the US to Texas! Then things might get right!
LOVE THE TEXAS PEOPLE AND THEIR TAKE NO CRAP ATTITUDE. I have lived in TX and the people are awesome and they will tell it like it is with them. If you don't like how TX is, you can leave. They stood up, showed up and spoke up. P.T.L. for TX.
Don't MESS WITH TEXAS!!!!:)
LOVE THE TEXAS PEOPLE AND THEIR TAKE NO CRAP ATTITUDE. I have lived in TX and the people are awesome and they will tell it like it is with them. If you don't like how TX is, you can leave. They stood up, showed up and spoke up. P.T.L. for TX.
So happy to hear and see this happening in my home state! Amen! Just curious, though, where are these ignorant atheists when it comes to standing up to Islam and Sharia law? You never see them doing THAT. Cowards.
So happy to hear and see this happening in my home state! Amen! Just curious, though, where are these ignorant atheists when it comes to standing up to Islam and Sharia law? You never see them doing THAT. Cowards.
We don't have Sharia law in the States.
No, but that's what they want and when they finally out number us, they WILL have it. No one ever stands up to them here! Atheists and Islamists want to eliminate Christianity. It WON'T HAPPEN.
I agree it won't happen, BUT people will never stop trying to wipe Christianity off the face of the earth.
Renee Kiff Weede WTF are you talking about? Next to Atheism, Mormon is the fastest growing religion in America. What is the Christian fear of eradication? Nobody wants you to stop practicing your faith. Do you have to have a Nativity scene? Are you not going to ascend into heaven without one?
If you guys had your way you'd make the christian equivalent of Sharia law in America.
Joseph Younger, we may soon…….if the PC crowd, the UN and Obama have their way.
Joseph Younger, we may soon…….if the PC crowd, the UN and Obama have their way.
Randy Burns – I suppose if all these things Have to happen to incur the 2nd coming of Jesus, let it. I think I'll enjoy post-rapture America.
I am of the Messianic faith, which is another way to worship the Messiah Yahushuah/Jesus Christ. I do not need a nativity scene, but I'm tired of Christians being singled out and ruled out, while others are being promoted and protected for no other reason but politics and money. However, He did say that we would be hated for His sake. I'm not afraid. I'm just fighting back. Big difference. By the way, Joseph, no need to curse, and no need to slam us. What are you afraid of? Just get off of the page. As far as you enjoying post-rapture America…ha!!! Good luck with that!!! I'll pray for you. Would your brothers do that? No, and a radical Islamist will slit your throat. After this, I have nothing further to say to you. Period.
Renee Kiff Weede Messianic is the most contradicting religion there is. The Jewish idea of Messiah completely clashes with the Christian idea of Messiah.
Way to pick a failure practice.
….have fun in your Christian hell.
Atta girl Renee!!
I am so proud to live in this great state of Texas, to have an Atty General who stands up for rights and our faith. I hope this is the beginning of a very loud & proud movement that will bring our faith & morals back into the focus of the people of this nation. <><
Whose faith? Whose morals? Stop foisting your belief system on others. You're free to worship as you see fit, but don't make our government stand at your pulpit to spoon feed it to you.
I am so sick of the freedom from religion group. They are also trying to get an eastern town to take down a "Merry Christmas" banner, because the sign is on public property. How can we stop these people? If any one ever starts a 'Freedom from the "freedom from religion" group", sign me up as the first member! I hope I am right behind them in line on judgement day. Why can't this group be happy with screwing up Wisconsin, and leave the rest of the country alone?
Ray Mastroleo wrote: "Simply put. In the USA, the majority rules. If the minorities like atheists don't like it. Too bad!" Ray, time to bone up on what a constitutional republic is because right now, you have no clue what America is (it being a constitutional republic). By your "majority rules" comment, if 99 percent of Americans wanted to kick out, oh…., let's say… Albinos, would it be right to kick out Albinos from our country? Nope. If you don't like the fact that atheists count just as much as Christians in this constitutional republic, well, let me borrow a phrase from an ill-equipped constitutional "scholar" whom you can call Ray: "Too bad."
Albinos rule. The majority would never kick them out…..so your comparison is mute.
So proud!
Here's to defending what the Christ is Christmas is all about! Stand tall for Lord Jesus Christ in the USA!
This makes me so angry. The people complaining about this aren't even FROM there…they're just trying to attack Christians.
Samuel Adams quotes:
Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. The necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude and perseverance. Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom," it is a very serious consideration… that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event.
Mmm…Boston Lager
And that was in response to his master brewer wanting less hops in the ale.
And that was in response to his master brewer wanting less hops in the ale.
Yes stand tall…nice and tall, all around the nativity scene. So all people can see the suffering and abuse Christians put up with in this country… And also so you block our view of your Shrine. lol
We need to fight for our Faith just as atheists who are in our face do…it is ridiculous how they think they have the right to tell Christians what they can and can't do….but don't you dare do the same to them…
Again with the Oppression complex. Look. You're white, Christian, probably republican, You are the majority.
Joseph Younger How is it different for us to have a nativity scene…when atheists have bus advertisements?
April Knapp You mean like Axe body wash?
April Knapp, anyone can pay for a bus advertisement, including a church. The nativity scene is the only religious view allowed in this case. That is why it is unconstitutional.
Amen God is in control and they just don't know it! God's will will be done and let us stand for what he died for!
Let's give all of those idots a lift up with a kick in the rear. If they want to live here in the US then follow the rules of law. In God we trust. Also if they don't like all of the free Holidays that the Gov gives them off from work , then they should work for straight time.
Intolerant, ignorant and very Christian of you.
Never give up the right to display a nativity scene… Tradition and Christmas trump these haters. Very proud of Texas tonight!
Think Bubba Blume has moved into Mr. Grinch's old house and set up the old hate Christmas routine. Must have moved to Wisconsin from Whoville! Merry Christmas Bubba!
The number of people that showed up shows me that it is a religious display and "defends" the fact that it needs to be taken down.
Separation from religions and government is what the laws says and only fair. I am sure that all of you would not support a display if it was a Muslim one.
I am atheist and have the right not to have to look at your foolish displays. You have churches and your homes to worship at, when you worship in public you are hoping to indoctrinate people into your religion/cult. This country was formed on the "freedom OF religion" "OF" means you don't have to hear about it.
Mr Bubba…the Gov IS doing what u ask. They are displaying a scene of Christ for us and displaying a scene of nothing for the athiests which is exactaly what u believe in…nothing.