Dec 17, 2011
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As many as 5,000 attended a rally in a small Texas community to show their support for a Nativity scene under attack by a Wisconsin-based atheist group, according to a minister who organized the event.
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“We are humbled at the turnout of the crowd,” said Nathan Lorick, the pastor of the First Baptist Church in Malakoff and one of the organizers of Saturday’s rally in Athens.
“We believe that God led us to do this and so we knew he was up to something great,” he told Fox News & Commentary in an email message. “This message is resonating in the hearts of people all over the country. This was a real statement to the nation that Christians are tired of the persecution and suppression. We want all to know that we are ready to contend for the faith.”
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a group based in Wisconsin, sent a letter to Henderson County explaining that a local resident had complained and they wanted the Nativity removed from the courthouse lawn.
The FFRF alleged that the Nativity sent a message of intimidation and exclusion to non-Christians.
But their attack prompted a tremendous outcry not just in Henderson County, but across the nation.
The Texas Attorney General offered to defend the county in the event the atheists sued, arguing that the county has no legal obligation to remove the Nativity scene from the courthouse grounds.
“Our message to the atheists is don’t mess with Texas and our Nativity scenes or the Ten Commandments,” Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News & Commentary. “I want the Freedom From Religion Foundation to know that our office has a history of defending religious displays in this state.”
Attorney General Abbott said the organization is trying to “bully local governmental bodies” and he said he wanted to make sure Henderson County knows “there is a person, a lawyer and an organization in this state that has their back, that has the law, that has the muscle and firepower to go toe-to-toe with these organizations that come from out of state trying to bully governmental bodies into tearing down things like Nativity scenes.”
Pastor Lorick said Saturday’s rally was peaceful and included speeches, patriotic music, Christmas carols and prayers. Nevertheless, he said they intended to send a message to the nation.
“It is time for Christians in America to stand up, show up and speak up,” he said. “We believe that it is time to lead America back to the biblical and Christian values and morals that have made our nation so great since its birth.”
Pastor Lorick said he’s received hundreds of calls and email from across the country — and he was overwhelmed by the size of Saturday’s crowd.
“I do hope that people across the nation will take note and know that they too can stand up and speak up,” Lorick said. “All I can tell you is that my eyes have been opened to a large number of people who want to see us fight for our faith.”
FOX News Talk
So athiests are not excluded…they have a scene of nothing on prominent display every day.
If for some reason this Nativity scene is taken down, every lawn in Texas should display one..
Are you assuming that everyone in Texas is Christian, or are you talking about vandalism?
Joseph Younger,No,but I am assuming that every Christian should have the right to display any kind of Nativity scene they choose,or not.Without a handful of non-believers trying to make a point and spoiling it for the majority..
Darlene Crenshaw Revis This is true, nobody is infringing your right to do so. Using the Courthouse to set a scene portraying the birth of Jesus is inappropriate.
Joseph Younger,See,this is the part that I do not understand.Not being able to display their Nativity scene at the Court house makes it look like the the few non-believers have won.
Joseph Younger- From what I have seen and heard,looks like the majority of the people don't think or feel like it is inappropriate at all..After all don't the tax payers really own the court house?
KEEP "CHRIST" IN CHRISTMAS, IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR TRADITION THAT HAS BEEN CARRIED ON IN THIS COUNTRY FOR CENTURIES, THEN PLEASE LEAVE OUR COUNTRY AND GO TO A COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT CELEBRATE THE "BIRTH OF CHRIST"….CHRISTMAS IS MORE THAN ABOUT SANTA CLAUS AND PRESENTS ITS MORE ABOUT THE "BIRTH OF CHRIST". I GET TIRE OF THE WINEING AND CRYING AND THE UPROAR AS IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING BETTER YOU COULD DO WITH YOUR TIME. I WISH YOU ALL A VERY "MERRY CHRISTMAS" AND HOPE YOU ALL WILL START TO ENJOY THE "TRUE REASON FOR THE SEASON".
I think you're caps lock is stuck. Geek squad is pretty decent if you're not computer savvy.
Our "christian" founding fathers you are refering to: Murdered American Indians to get this land, then enslaved Africans to build it up. wow. and for you to say "please leave our country" is insulting. This country belongs to ALL Americans!
Congratulations to all the people who spent their valuable time during these Christmas Holidays to stand-up for the first Amendment that ensures our religious freedom. NOT Freedom FROM Religion, as a bunch of Atheists who are uncomfortable with their stated Belief of a NON- Belief system would have us believe. What I can never comprehend, is what is their beef? Why are the Atheists so concerned with Christians while I as a Christian am not, even an eensy teensy little bit concerned with their non-belief.
I guess most of them say there is absolutely no proof that there is god. I say fine, Ok. Now, please provide me with your proof that there is NO god, and we can have a conversation.
The only people standing up for the first amendment are the people fighting to have this unconstitutional display removed. The first amendment prohibits government from giving one religion exclusive access to government resources. Individual citizens can worship however they like on their own time with their own property. The people who put up the nativity scene did nothing wrong. The people in government who only allowed those people and not others to do so violated the Constitution.
It's not about whether God exists or not. It's about whether or not the Constitution applies in Texas.
WOW BUBBA!
really human sacrifice? really? LMBO backed in a corner now we have to pull out the human sacrifice? oh WOW what do you thin War is Bubba? huh HUMAN SACRIFICE BUBBA! yes the war my son is fighting is a sacrifice BUBBA! OH and he's a CHRISTIAN!
There has to be more Christians in this world than those other people. Good going for the people of Henderson, TX.
I'm guessing that at least some Christians recognize that there is a violation of the Constitution here.
The constitution was founded by Christian men and has since been turned around and changed to as to not hurt the atheists..One woman was allowed to have prayer removed from public school!!
Rhonda Dore Brashier – Rhonda, do your homework/read your history: the 'Founding Fathers' were NOT christians (at least not even remotely in comparison to what we call 'christians' today)!
Rhonda Dore Brashier, nobody has removed prayer from public school. What is unconstitutional is for the school employees to manage it. Kids pray all the time and nobody cares. Don't invent your own facts.
And the Constitution was founded by a group of people with a variety of theological views, just like our leaders today. They were smart enough to set up a system where we can get along if we play by the rules.
I do not see how thievish unconstitutional. And besides it is a decoration celebrating a holiday that is Christian in nature. If they don't like it.they don't have to celebrate Christian. If people feel threatened by a nativity scene they shouldn't live in a country that allows freedom of religion and expression. Erik Jensen
Joshua Fauver, you can take a course on constitutional law if you want to understand why this is unconstitutional. The short answer is that the establishment clause of the 1st amendment combined with the 14th amendment (which makes the bill of rights apply to state and local governments) prohibit the government from exclusively allowing a nativity scene. The nativity scene itself is not illegal. The government ONLY allowing that one point of view is the problem. Freedom of religion does not entitle us to use government resources. If the displays are inclusive (Santa Monica, CA, for example), then they are constitutional. If they are generic, secular displays (trees, lights, Santas, etc.), then they are constitutional. If only one religion is allowed, then the display is unconstitutional.
The key here is that the local government is the agent violating the Constitution with their discriminatory policies. The private citizens who put up the nativity scene did nothing illegal. The restriction is on the government, not the private citizens. I would think a Ron Paul supporter would appreciate that.
I agree. You cant discriminate against religions. So let em throw up a manorah and call it fair. As a devout Christian I defend the ability to put a nativity scene, as a libertarian I cannot agree with allowing only one religious decoration. Erik Jensen
I agree. You cant discriminate against religions. So let em throw up a manorah and call it fair. As a devout Christian I defend the ability to put a nativity scene, as a libertarian I cannot agree with allowing only one religious decoration. Erik Jensen
So why, exactly, does this display have to be on the courthouse lawn? Couldn't it be moved to a churchyard? Maybe in front of a local business? Or rent a vacant lot?
Oh, right, I forgot – it has nothing to do with celebrating Christmas or glorifying God. It is all about showing that the local government endorses and supports Christianity. If you move it off the government property, there's just no point in having the display at all.
And that's why it is unconstitutional.
well said Mark!
Todd, I think you have been HAD.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/thousands-rally-to-save-nativity-scene.html
I don't think what your story said actually happened.
For a rally that supposedly is to defend a nativity, why is no one in the video or photos dressed festively? No santa hats. No antler hats. No red and white. No candy canes. Everything you would expect to see at a christmas event is MISSING! The trees look TOO green for winter in Texas.
In fact why are there Gadsden and Culpepper flags being flown? This is a political rally! Not a "defense of christmas" rally.
There is only ONE mention of "christmas" in the videos on that page and that is just late in a long list of issues in that speech.
This looks like a fabricated story to me.
Absolutely wonderful! Yes, we Christians need to make a stand and be counted.
Absolutely wonderful! Yes, we Christians need to make a stand and be counted.
Go Texas! About time our Christian views were defended.
like the crusades,building the Church of Sepulchre, Spanish inquisition wasn't enough?
People I am having a real problem after readig about 200 + comments I still can't see the point. There are two or three people here that don't like religion, they don't beleive in God, they don't beleive that Jesus was born a virgin birth, they don't beleive he died on a cross (historical fact) for our sins and they don't beleive in Christmas. Yet it bothers them so much that we do beleive that they want to form an organization and spend tons of money and threaten people in the government with law suits, because there are statues of people that they don't beleive existed doing what they say never happened on the lawn of a building that someone else paid for. It seems to me that as far as this town is concerned they do beleive and they want the statues there on the lawn that they paid for. If there is a person that complained to the FFRF then they went to the wrong people because they don't live there. Myself I like it I beleive in it and I even served in the military to protect the right to do just that. Now if you served you have the right not to beleive if you so chose but yo do NOT hsve the right to tell me that I can't. Now if you want to do that and this thing bothers you so much yu can't stand it then I suggest you move to an other country where they feel the way you do or just leave those of us that do like Christmas and Christ and the manger scene and other religious thing alone and go on about your business of not beleiving in anything. Even though you are reading this it real does not exist.
If you served in the military, then you swore an oath to defend the Constitution. Perhaps you should read that document to gain better insight into why people have a problem with this display.
I have also taken that oath, but that has never risen unprovoked in an argument or statement….Saying "I'm a combat vet", is like pulling the race card.
Erik Jensen perhaps they should quit lying abouttheir real reason for not wanting it displayed. It has nothign to do with the constitution just you and those like you. The constitution was not written for just you it was written for all and ti give us the same right as you. Therefor ewe have the right to display it like it or not. Grow up get a life and let others do the same.
Joseph Younger OI simply said that I defended the country so that all that live here have the right to beleive as they chose not so someone can tell them how or what to beleive.
Grace Knight Yes, you have the same rights as me. You have the right to express yourself on your own time with your own resources. You don't have the right to exclusive use of government resources to promote your religion. The teacher does not have the right to be paid by the government to promote his religion. It has everything to do with the Constitution. Amend it or deal with it.
Grace, you seem ignorant about a few things…A true Athiest does believe a man named Jesus existed and was nailed to a cross and murdered, but they don't believe he died for our sins and they don't belive he was the son of god. They think this is a silly fairytale, like Santa, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy.
Jeff Taylor You know if you could read it exactly what I wrote. As my fun as it is arguing with you people I will point out that to beleive in Jesus Christ and Christmas is an individul thing. You the government nor any other organization can remove that. The manger scene is just a representation of what we beleive happened in history. If you do not beleive it then it should not effect you or your way of life at all. If it does bother you and your way of life then you aren't what you say you are and do not beleove what you say you do. I pass by all kinds of different signs and displays daily that I do not beleive in and you know it really doesn't bother me a bit, it doesn't make me feel threatened or want me to go tell them they have to remove it. The differences people have and the way we live as individuals is wha tmakes this USA the great nation it is and if we all start beleoving the same we would be no better than those we fight to keep it that way. Take a look around at some of the other countries and see if you could even think of saying anything about what you didn't like. Yes Jeff I am ignorant as you put it to what you beleive because I see nothig you beleive but as ignorant as I am you can't change me or my mind about this issue because I have just as much proof that it did happen as you do that it did not happen, probably more.
Grace Knight…First of all, it is very hard to read your ramblings w/ all the mis-spellings. You should proof read what you write. Non of that made much sense to me. I was simply correcting you. Jesus did exist, Jesus was born in a manger, Jesus was nailed to a cross and murdered, nobody is sayin he wasn't or didn't. But he was NOT born from a virgin, he was NOT the son of God, he did NOT die for our sins, and did NOT rise from the dead and he is NOT returning someday! All that talk is silly. The "manger scene" does not affect me in the least. Just keep it off "OUR" Government property! And these things that you see daily that you don't believe are not on government property. So that is not an argument. This is about the seperation of church and state.
And, btw…I am not tryin to change your mind. I couldn't care less. But christians are recruiting. LEAVE US ALONE! We don't need to be "saved" from your fairy tale.
For all you pleasant people considering Non-Jesus believers ignorant because we need to read the bible. Please make sure your reference doesn't contradict itself first.
Numbers 23: 18-19 ———- "G-d is not a man nor the son of man that He should be capable of lying."
First book of Samuel 15:29 – "And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for G-d is not a man, that He should repent."
Merrrrry Christmas!
boo to the FFRF..the are evil.
As an atheist, I have had an interesting couple of days exchanging views and vitriole with the passionate Christians on this blog. But the discussion has grown tiresome since so many posts are repetitious and the fact that no one is likely to change anyone else's opinions. And there are other issues that need addressing like why the death of the despot in North Korea is deleteriously affecting the world's economic markets. So in conclusion, despite my non-belief, I would like to respectfully wish all the believers on this thread a Merry Christmas and a healthy and happy New Year.
Merry CHRISTmas Mark Wolfson. I prayed for you last night and I will continue to pray for all those who do not know Christ. May God bless you and yours this Christmas and all through the coming year.
Please excuse my faulty spelling of the word "vitrol" above. I should have proof read my post more carefully.
I totally support this!
WELL DONE! AMERICA NEEDS TO GET BACK ON GROUND WITH CHRIST…..IF NON CHRISTIANS DON'T LIKE IT, THEY NEED TO MOVE TO NON CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES…..OR TURN THEIR HEADS AND LIVE HERE IN PEACE. LEAVE US CHRISTIANS ALONE AND LET US HAVE OUR FREEDOM OF RELIGION AS ALL OTHERS HAVE THEIR RIGHTS OF BELIEFS!
WELL DONE! AMERICA NEEDS TO GET BACK ON GROUND WITH CHRIST…..IF NON CHRISTIANS DON'T LIKE IT, THEY NEED TO MOVE TO NON CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES…..OR TURN THEIR HEADS AND LIVE HERE IN PEACE. LEAVE US CHRISTIANS ALONE AND LET US HAVE OUR FREEDOM OF RELIGION AS ALL OTHERS HAVE THEIR RIGHTS OF BELIEFS!
I cannot stand when people claim that when "one" religion celebrates holidays important to them that it infringes on the rights of others. Christians do not demand that Muslim's, Jewish people, buddists or any other religion are infringing on our rights and demand that they take down their decorations? Why cant people just let other people be.
he may have been born a Christian but he did not live as a Christian. You would have to be a dolt to believe that his belief system was Christian. He was a Socialist and believed in social engineering and eugenics. I thought you would coward out and pick out some insignificant issue and refuse to answer more important things I posted like God given rights that can't be taken away by the dictators and Atheistic leftists like you!
THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WAS IN EFFECT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION! THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SECULARIST RELIGION OF THE UN-GODLY. SATAN'S PROUDEST DAY!
I say go back to Wisconsin and leave us Texan alone!
Ok, I agree, a nativity display on govt property is free speech (legal). I also think it's childish to believe in such a fairy tale. If there's life after death then there's no death. If there's no death then we should end the prohibition on murder.
I say BRING IT! Bring…IT! they have awaken the sleeping GIANT.. Stand Up..Show Up..SPEAK UP! BRING IT ON!
Yay Texas!
Bill Roby & M Bubba:
]
Umm troll/trolling is an internet term related to fishing. Trolling for
"bites" by going slow in a boat with a lure trailing hoping to get a fish.
to bite. It's a very effecting way to fish, hoping for a bite. Hence the
term and technology called a "trolling motor" in fishing from a boat.
An internet troll is an jerk that likes to get bites by posting deliberately.
provocative comments usually off topic by nonsense content, to get people to.
"bite" for sick gratification and/or to excessively spam thier opinion. M Bubba
Bloom is a perfect example of a troll.
Troll and Trolling have been well estabilished terms for this type of acivity.
long before the world wide web from the old Computer Bulletin Boards with 300.
baud dial up modems.
The real question here is the Nativity Scene itself. Is it in good condition?
Accurate? Is it safe traffic wise? Has it been vandalized with damage or.
graffitti?
Athiests are the biggest hippocrites ever. How can anyone claim to not believe.
in God yet be so angry at somone or something that doesn't exist? If you really.
didn't believe you wouldn't care.
Also Bill, I have to guess that your use of the term "gay" is yet another.
variation of it that means "lame", "weak" "stupid" and not "homosexual". It helps
if people would use established and enduring terminology instead of short term.
slang in posting. Merry Christ Mass.
THE CURE FOR TROLLS IS IGNORE THEM. THEY GET BORED AND GO BOTHER SOMEONE ELSE.
I really enjoyed this post untill the paragraph about Athiests…they are not hypocrites and they are not angry at god, cause they don't believe there is one. They are angry at the government allowing just one of the MANY religions to litter their property w/ their paraphernalia. I would say religious church going people who live one way all week, then another way on Sunday are the definition of hypocrites! And from my experience, they make up the majority of god fearing people.
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life!"
well Done Texas.
FFRF is a scam. They find some press by attacking any religious symbol on government land and then show an effort to have it removed. This gives them justification to ask for donations. They have found a way to make money by passing the plate amongst non believers. Very cleaver. Are you fool enough to give them money to travel to the warm states in winter and the cooler ones in summer? Hell, they're on a paid vacation with YOUR MONEY. Suckers!
Very proud of all you people just like I go to a church and we got our bells fixed now they ring now the some people bitch what's going on in this world'.
I'm from the Philippines, where the majority of the population is Catholic although there is a sizeable number of atheists. But unlike your atheists there, they respect the faith of the non-atheists. While these atheists may fight for issues that may offend the Catholic church, such as reproductive health and LGBT rights, they do not go as far as demand the government to remove their Nativity displays and Christmas trees. As a Filipino United Methodist, I just find it absurd that an atheist organization would demand the removal of something that is not just religious but also cultural. Out of the many issues atheists must try to resolve, such as poverty, I don't think their war on Christmas is unnecessary.
I am a Christian and very proud of my faith. Without Jesus in my life, I would be nothing. I love Jesus and noone can ever take that away from me. Thanks to all believers in Henderson county, Texas.
I have a couple of thoughts in regard to the Nativity scene comments and they come in no particular order. First, many of the comments in support of the Nativity Scene are not very Christ like. Second, I am not certain why these Nativity scenes could not be placed upon Church property or in your front yard. They are just as effective. Third, I like the idea of renting out space in the Court yard to put up a Nativity Scene although that could back fire with fringe groups like the American Nazi party (do they still exist?) renting space. Fourth, I don't like people going out and looking for a fight and it certainly looks like the Wisconsin group is doing that. Let the good people of Henderson County work that out and let the good people in Wisconsin fix their own problems. Not to be rude, but in the immortal words of Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Southern man don't need you round." But you are very much welcome to visit and vacation in our fair state. Fifth, @ Mark Wolfson – Hitler was an opportunist but he was not a Christian nor did he hold Christian beliefs close to him. In fact, he describes his rejection of Christianity as a moment "like a horse being set free in a pasture." You are dead wrong on Hitler being "Christian" and I extensively studied German history in graduate school and thereafter. (But thank you for wearing the uniform and protecting our country). Sixth, people have hid behind Christianity to do evil deeds, but none of these evils deeds compare to the crimes committed by the atheist regimes of the 20th Century. Balance the crimes committed by Christians with their good works and Christians measure up pretty well. (There were no orphanages in India until the Christian British came). Seventh, God proves you exist. Except for the eyewitness accounts of Christ rising from the dead (which would stand up in a Court of law as admissible evidence) the so called evidence of God's existence is circumstantial as he is the original cause. Because he is the original cause/being, his existence proves that everything exists – at least it exists for the time being. Otherwise, the evidence is that you don't exist. Use this exercise: we are in a Court of law to prove up your existence but continuances are continually given "ad infinitum". Eventually you die. Well, that hurts your case. Eventually, the sun becomes super heated and the Earth burns up. Well, further evidence of your existence is destroyed, mankind is destroyed, and the Court, needless to say, is destroyed. We now have no way of proving up your existence. Christ made this argument but he started from the opposite end when he asked the Pharisees to tell him "where were you before you were born?" In proving your existence Mark Wolfson, I ask you the same question. Eighth, a large portion of our founding fathers were not Christian. They were deists. But they lived in a Christian culture and they adopted Christian values. Ninth, from an intellectual basis, I think a lot of the arguments made by the Christians have been embarrassing. When we have been ordered to love our enemies, how can we be so hateful? Tenth, I sympathize with you Mark – I have a hard time sitting still in Church listening to someone talk to me when I can't also talk. Eleventh, let us be careful about the separation of church and state. State sponsored religions are weakened by state sponsorship. And when the government fails, the church also fails if it is too close to the government. Witness what happened during the Oktober Revolution in Russia. The church could have made a much stronger stand against Communism if it had not been so closely connected to the corruption of the Tzars. A strong separation of church and state makes for a more independent church and a stronger institution. It is like a water tight compartment for our ship of civilization. Eleventh, in America, the atheists I have personally run into have had intellectual honesty in many areas and have been good people. I fear, however, that if we drift out of a Christian culture, that will not be the case. Atheists, like it or not, your moral values originated in the Judeo Christain environment. Twelve, I hope that God has mercy on my soul. I certainly have done nothing to earn a right to be in his presence. That is why I have to rely upon Christ as my proxy. I believe in God's mercy and I think it will be broader than we ever imagined because he is that powerful.Thirteen, we had a handful of Jews in my school in Dallas and I know the Christmas celebrations made them uncomfortable and I felt sorry for them. And these Jews had impeccable moral and are people I still love and admire. Fourteen, peace on earth and good will to men. Christ has risen.
Correction, I studied German history in undergraduate school.
I can't wait until we see a Hanukkah Menorah and an Arabic calligraphy displayed next to it
Remember Texas: freedom of religion means openness to all faiths, including Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Satanists, Hindus and Black Liberation Theologists!
When are all you people going to open your eyes and stop believing in gods. You are now over the comic book stage.
Don't let the 1.7% take control over the 90%+ that believes in God. Atheism is NOT healthy for our children and living things… prayer changes