Dec 6, 2011
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A New Jersey high school admits that it “inadvertently” censored Christmas songs that include the words God, Jesus, Santa, Christmas and Chanukah – in place of music that would not be “belief-specific.”
Colin Curran, a student at West Windsor – Plainsboro High School South, wrote about the incident in a Huffington Post blog titled, “Christmas, I mean Holiday, Music.”
Curran wrote that he was in charge of creating a playlist for a holiday breakfast hosted by the student council for young children. He said the student council adviser told him to avoid any holiday music that included the words God Jesus, Santa, Christmas or Chanukah.
Gerri Hutner, the director of communications for the West Windsor Plainsboro School District, confirmed the incident occurred – but said the adviser was mistaken.
“There is not a ban on religious music,” Hutner told Fox News & Commentary. “Religious music is a part of the concerts we have from elementary through high school. We do not restrict music within our programs.”
Hutner said the adviser incorrectly told Curran that the music could not have any religious overtones. She said the adviser had based that decision on information she had received from a former principal.
“We try to be very aware how we celebrate any type of event because we are a very diverse community,” Hutner said, noting that previous concerts have included songs like “Silent Night” and “Hallelujah Chorus.”
“I questioned the logic behind these restrictions and was informed that since we live in an area with many different cultures, our principal does not want to offend anyone with belief-specific music,” Curran wrote on his Huffington Post blog.
Curran detailed his search for holiday songs that might meet the school’s criteria – but only came up with a handful of selections. Among those making the cut – “Baby, It’s Cold Outside,” “Jingle Bells,” and “Marshmallow World.”
“I understand that people have different beliefs, but is the mention of Santa in a song really going to change someone’s belief set?” he wrote.
David Cortman, senior counsel for Alliance Defense Fund, said school officials are acting “like the Grinch who stole Christmas.”
“There is absolutely no Constitutional crisis if the school allows Christmas songs to be played even if some of those songs are religious,” Cortman told Fox News & Commentary. “This time of year is Christmas – whether you want to acknowledge that or not.”
But many school districts are worried about lawsuits from groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and their associates – groups Cortman accused of spreading fear.
“School officials shouldn’t have to worry about being sued merely for acknowledging a holiday that over 90 percent of Americans celebrate,” he said.
Hutner said the principal is meeting with the adviser in hopes of adjusting the holiday playlist in time for Saturday’s breakfast. The event also features pictures with Frosty the Snowman.
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These school administrators are forgetting that students have rights! They have the right of expression of religion. That means that students have the RIGHT( upheld by the Supreme Court) to sing Christmas carols with the names of Jesus and God in them. Students however, are coerced and intimidated by Administrators and teachers who consistently violate students rights. What an irony it would be if a Christian student brought a lawsuit against the School for violating their rights (protected by the U.S. Constitution) and forced the ACLU to defend them in Court.
A National News reporter stated HOLIDAY shoppers have helped the economy bounce back in a big way. He either couldn't or wouldn't say CHRISTMAS Shoppers….. We CHRISTMAS shoppers help the economy and taxes go to these schools, public buildings, ect….. so our CHRISTMAS dollars help everyone, who receives taxpayer dollars. They should not have it both ways. We should keep our CHRISTMAS dollars, and not support those who won't acknowledge our CHRISTMAS religious celebration. If the dollars aren't there to support these recipients, they would sing anything you want to get them!
ARE YOU KIDDING? CHRISTmas is by definition belief specific! CHRISTmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Don' believe in it don't participate. Go to work on Christmas day. Or return your pay, etc!
Well, I'm offended because we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas and we won't accomodate Christianity, but we are "encouraged" to be tolerant of others. Well, why can't they be encouraged to be tolerant of me and other Christians,.
You can celebrate christmas, in your homes, churches, with friends and family, but public schools are not churches, therefore cannot establish or promote any religion.
Glenn P. Bowlsby Thank you for your permission to celebrate Christmas. When I was growing up, we had a Christmas party at school. No one promoted religion; Non one established a religion. I don't recall ever hearing a sermon at school. But if I had, that would have been fine too. So we can't celebrate Christmas at school, but we can have teachers promoting "alternative"lifestyles????
Wanda Lawson Reynolds Christmas, the celebration of Jesus birth, is Religious. Lifestyle is not religious, it is fact.
Glenn P. Bowlsby whether life style is a "fact" or not, it is not appropriate for schools to promote it. Schools can teach about birth control, but they can't include abstinance. By the way, Glenn, I am fully aware of the reason for Christmas. It's why I celebrate.
Wanda Lawson Reynolds Schools are not promoting lifestyles, but are trying to stop bullying because of peoples lifestyles, so they have to talk about lifestyles. We all have to get a long. Do you have a better way to stop bullying? Should people hide who they are because you do not like it? No they shouldn't, they should be respected, you don't have to like what they do.
Glenn P. Bowlsby so as a Christian, I'm supposed to accept/respect the lifestyles, religions, etc of others, but they don't have to accept or respect mine. What about when schools make accomodations for Muslims to pray during the day or have facilities for their footwashing rituals, but a Christian is not allowed to pray in school. Is that tolerance?
Wanda Lawson Reynolds The should respect you and your beliefs as well, and no Muslims in Public school should not be able to pray and have a foot washing ritual, they should however be allowed to pray in silence, just like any religion should be allowed.
Glenn P. Bowlsby is the celebration of Martin Luther King's birth a religious holiday then? he was Christian.
Why is it that it's always okay to offend and disriminate against Christians, but never anyone else? STand up Christians, band together, & tell our society that this type of BS is not acceptable! Like it or not, there's a reason we get almost 2 weeks off of school at the end of December, and that's because it's Christmas–a celebration of Christ's birth. May everyone have a blessed and peaceful CHRISTmas
Why is it ok for Christians to force their religious iews and beliefs on everyone who doesn't want hear. If you don't believe is happening, then please tell the Christians to stop knocking on my door.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!
okay, how 'bout celebrating the birthday of a famous person in history like Martin Luther King or Chris Columbus. Isn't that what Christmas really is? After 2000 yrs do we no longer acknowledge this man like those that refuse to acknowledge a Holocaust took place?
Neither Martin Lurther King or Chris Columbus were not religious icons. Jesus is a religious icon.
Glenn P. Bowlsby Hey, dufus – MLK was an ordained minister. He was clergy. He invoked Christ's name all the time. His vision of equality was pure Christianity. he didn't come up with that philosphy. JESUS did. MLK was simply doing what he was trained to do – EVANGELIZE.
I sang every Christmas song, including Ave Maria, in Latin in chorus all through high school in Brooklyn, NY. Today, I teach all about Christian art in my AP Art History class to a mostly Muslim student body. I'm still Jewish! Ya gotta love NYC!
Its the Christmas & Hanukkah season. Why why should 90+% of us who are practicing / believing individuals bows to those who might be offended? Honestly, I'm far and away more worried about offending the One we are celebrating than those who insist on removing any mention of 'Christ'mas.
NJ you voted for them, now vote them out..wake up America we are letting the ACLU, Atheists, Heathens, Supreme Court, Politicians and President cram their Heathen ways on us..I say its time to sweep out the trash..IN GOD WE TRUST, GOD BLESS AMERICA, GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, MERRY CHRISTMAS, LOVE SANTA AND CAROLS….love it or leave it..
Love it or leave it? So much for freedom. This country belongs to atheists same as it belongs to the religious. And it belongs to people you consider "heathens." I think everyone should just stick around even if it does anger you.
Ken Thor White
Ken Thor White This country was founded on Christian values read your US history..I pray to a living God like my forefathers did.You are right its belongs to all of us thats why I pray for people like you.
Rudy Ramirez they were founded on "new" christian values. Also most religions have the same underlying values. Such as do not kill and do not stray outside of marriage. The protestant faith is a very new religion in the sceem of things only 250 years old or so. We of other faiths pray for people like you as well. Blessed be.
Rudy Ramirez Christians values, while 82% of the US prison population are Christians. I think I'll pass on the Christians traditions thank you.
I don't believe that excuse for a second. The teacher/advisor did it on purpose. The un-named [why?] adviser did it to express his/her own discomfort with things religious, even to Christmas and Chanukah. The teacher should be immediately fired as an example to other would-be Goebbels. Stop the pc police in all areas before it completely destroys our Culture!
OMG! It's a war against christianity! Oh, wait, no it isn't. Just because someone has the right to freedom of religion does not give them the right to force a public entity to help them endorse their religion with public funding. Those of you upset by this know that you would be far more upset if some muslim was allowed to perform an islamic holiday play at the same time christians weren't being prevented from doing theirs. Unless this same school is allowing another religion to perform a religious holiday play, then there is no basis for an argument in this case.
In some schools/districts christian holiday celebrations have been reduced to non-religious secular versions. In many U.S. schools the christian connotations are still allowed to thrive, despite the fact that doing so borders on a violation of separation of church and state and thereby might actually infringe on the freedom of religion guaranteed by the constitution.
If people can't see the not-so-subtle difference between what amounts to an endorsement of the majority religion by the state (or lack thereof when decisions are made to remove the christian element), and a true act of religious persecution (which would be the state endorsing a minority religion over the minority one), then gawd help us all if we are that ignorant.
I won't say that it is never the case that christianity is truly persecuted because of a public entity making the wrong decision to allow another religions symbolism to be publicly funded while blocking the christian counterpart – however, in this instance the school made the CORRECT decision by eliminating the christian element from this play, however, not doing so wouldn't necessarily have been the wrong thing. There is no reason not to allow the religious connotations in expectation that someone may be offended, only if it is known that someone with a valid objection WILL be offended or has already complained.
Maybe because Muslims have had NOTHING constructive to do with founding, building and defense of this country for the last 200+ years. Christians and Jews built this country, became business owners, defended it during wartime, raised their kids with the same set of values (we call those values Judeo-Christian, by the way) and have proclaimed their allegiance to America. Muslims calim allegiance to nobody except themselves. They believe in enclaves, not nations.
Muslims have instead tried at every turn to destroy this country. They are stuck in a medieval mindset that is bent on destruction and murder. The ones that don't kill or threaten to kill are doing NOTHING against the ones who are. If Muslims really do love this country like they always claim, then they need to suppress the filthy jihadists who apparently hate us. But they don't. They stay silent. When asked, the "peaceful" Muslims even say that in some situations, terrorist violence is warranted. (70% said this, in a survey last year.)
Muslims need to assimilate like the rest of our ancestors did when they came here, or they need to leave. We can not support a society like Europe has turned themselves into.
Christmas is a Christian Holy Day…where the exchange of gifts is a unique ritual embraced by many people, even people of different religions. It is because of Christmas that Black Friday exists and that many NON Religious corporations make huge profits during the season. They play Christmas music in their stores but refuse to say Marry Christmas at check out. I beleieve that all people who want to take religion out of their lives and ours are looking for justification for their actions but without moral punshment. They cannot deal with the guilt…so get rid of religion and their soles will be at ease! Marry Christmas everyone!
no not a "unique" holiday. Go look up the history of Christmas. It was a pagan holiday Caesar just changed the deity worshiped. Bless all the open minded people on here, who are not calling for the killing of others.
Keep Christ in Christmas…..its takes all of us to make the change we need in this world.
It's fine to keep Christ in Christmas, but if he sets foot in government then we're headed for trouble as a country.
Liars, you lie!
Diversity means just that, doesn't it?
Peace on earth, goodwill toward all men…
when are we decent people going to stand up and protest stop the madness yes we comment on these blogs, BUT when do we go to the street with posters standing quietly with our signs from OUR White House to our local State Capitols.
Merry Christmas to all. These idiots who state "holiday" it REALLY means Holy Day. People use to say Happy Holy Days but it got abbreviated to Holiday why Drop the Y and add the I so ya'll can't get away from CHRISTMAS – CHRIST'SMASS.
Who declared Santa a religious icon? Read the Bible as closely as you please, you'll see he's never mentioned there. He does not represent Christianity. He is a symbol of the overly commercialized holiday perpetuated by greedy business owners hungry for profit.
and a pagan symbol to boot as well, same as the christmas tree and the yule log.
and a pagan symbol to boot as well, same as the christmas tree and the yule log.
If anybody has problems this year being attacked for Christmas, there is a Christian Law Firm called American Center For Law and Justice. You can find them online. Its time People start doing what the atheist groups and Muslim groups do. Start bringing lawsuits right and left. Every time they are hostile towards Christians start SUING SUING SUING ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
American Center For Law and Justice handles all these kinds of cases.
People really need to get over being offended about stupid crap….I am celebrating Christmas…So I will wish everyone a Merry Christmas….If you celebrate Hannaka, Wish me a Happy Hannaka…..If you are celebrating Ramadan, Wish me a Happy Ramadan…..This goes for any other religious holiday any where in the World that is suppose to bring people closer together….How offensive is wishing someone the very best? Apparently to some…Very…People get offended by the most stupid crap imaginable…..
People, GET OVER YOURSELVES….Anyway, MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!
as a pagan I dislike this. We need to either include all religions or leave them all out. I love Christmas and Christmas songs. The easy answer would be to put on a holiday show and allow the kids to sing songs of all faiths. But also ask yourselves would you be okay with your child singing a Jewish song, a Hindu song or a pagan song? Most people would not, but I am sure one christian parent would protest. It is always the one bah humbug that ruins it for everyone else. This school had to make a hard decision, not the one I would make but I believe in including everyone and spreading knowledge , so kids do not fear what makes people different.
opps most parents would not mind their child singing a song and learning about a dif faith is what I meant.
and if would be offended at the fact your children would sing songs of a dif faith and are complaining you need to check your own hypocrisy.
and if would be offended at the fact your children would sing songs of a dif faith and are complaining you need to check your own hypocrisy.
The damn ACLU needs to be burned at the stake!
Ooops! Sorry for misspelling Hanukah.
Ooops! Sorry for misspelling Hanukah.
I now call yamakas "holiday hats".
The first amendment of the constitution prohibits congress from establishing a state religion. A teacher decorating their class with a Christmas tree, is not the establishment of religion by congress. Sorry ACLU. The solution to this problem is to break the government monopoly on education through vouchers. Unfortunately the teachers unions stand in the way of school choice.
Why is the censoring of religious beliefs not seen as a form of hate speech? The purging of all religious symbolism seems to me the ultimate in intolerance, not tolerance. The practice also denies students of valuable learning about other cultures – especially if the students are not christian — Just a little twist on this issue.
I got a story to share with you people. I use to play piano on cruise ships. I remember one time around Christmas time I was playing Christmas songs like Silent Night, Oh Holy Night, etc, and a atheist came up to me and complained about the Christmas songs. He got offended because they were Christian songs and he was offended. Well it ended up turning into a sing-o long and the atheist got real mad. I got into a big debate with this guy. My point is What is wrong with these atheist. These people really need to get a life. How can anybody be offended at some nice Christmas music. There's something really wrong with these atheist groups.
There is simply NO RIGHT to not be offended. Sorry (not really). End of story.
"Curran?"
Sounds a lot like "Koran."
It's not a holiday. It is a Holy Day when Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus the Christ God's Son the saviour of humanity. That is why God and Jesus name are used in our songs of cellebration. My children and granchildren are taught why we celebrate this season and we teach them why we don't participate with other celebrations with out attacking them and making them change their practices or their songs. Kind of like explicit sexual devient lifestyles that are infilltrating our school districts – We just opt our kids out and teach them at haome and arm them with information abot the evil behind the attack on children.
It is not political correctness, inclusion, or cultural sensitivity. They are afraid of the love in the Jesus Christ that is in our worship. Plain and simple. Herod tried to get him by eliminating children and the devil still works overtime destroying the family and attacking the children. Won't work. To many wise and harmless children out there that really have a relationship with God and know why they can pray and how to pray. Revival is coming America. Your best years are before you.
I hope people read the article – because the director of communications for the school said that the adviser was WRONG. So let's all get off the "omg they're stealing Christmas!" or the "They're bashing Christians" bandwagon. ONE person was mistaken and told the student the WRONG information. It's not school officials, it's not the principal. The ADVISER for the group was the one who was WRONG. So what exactly is the news here?
Just so everyone knows, I have a CHRISTMAS TREE in my living room (not a holiday tree), my kids are getting CHRISTMAS PRESENTS (not holiday gifts) and we will eat CHRISTMAS DINNER (not a holiday meal), and I will attend a CHRISTMAS PARTY (not a holiday party). I will also very cheerfully wish you a MERRY CHRISTMAS! (not… happy holidays). By the way, if you want to have a Happy Hanukkah , by all means do, I respect that. If you want to have a Blessed Kwanzaa, I also respect that. I want to have a Merry Christmas, so I ask YOU to respect that! If you just can't bring yourself to respect the tradition and want to be just so, so perfect PC then GO F*** yourself!
Ahhhh well done, you finished it off like a real christian would. Go on, you spew that hatred towards those that don't agree with you. Spew it like only a christian can. Then go back to playing the victim again.
Ed Borghi – Well telling people to go fuck themselves – how very Christian of you.
The early Christian church did not celebrate Jesus' birth.
It wasn't until A.D. 440 that the church officially proclaimed December 25
as the birth of Christ. This was not based on any religious evidence but on a pagan feast.
Saturnalia was a tradition inherited by the Roman pagans from an earlier Babylonian priesthood.
December 25 was used as a celebration of the birthday of the sun god.
It was observed near the winter solstice.
Pagan religions honored their gods' birth or rebirth on or about
that day. Their deities were typically called: Son of Man, Light of
the World, Sun of Righteousness, Bridegroom, and Savior. Some
examples are:
Roman Pagan Religion: Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. His
birth was celebrated on DEC-25. He was sacrificed as an adult
in order to bring salvation to mankind. He died about MAR-25,
after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days
into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, as the solar deity
for the new season. His followers tied an image of Attis to a
tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the
temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in
the form of bread. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200
BCE.
Greek Pagan Religion: Dionysus is another savior-god whose
birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout
much of the Middle East as well. He had a center of worship in
Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins have been
found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on
the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were
symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was
viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Egyptian Pagan Religion: Osiris is a savior-god who had been
worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord
of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods…the Resurrection and
the Life, the Good shepherd…the god who 'made men and women
be born again'" 5 Three wise men announced his birth. His
followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many
sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible.
This included: 23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the
good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of
the shadow of death and to green pastures and still
waters
Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven…"
Many parables attributed to Jesus.
Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, were
established throughout the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st
century BCE.
Persian Pagan Religion: Mithra was a Persian savior. Worship
of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire,
particularly among the Roman civil service and military.
Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th
century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25,
circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by
gift-carrying Magi. This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis
Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some
followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his
life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and
cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12
disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring
equinox, about March 21.
Next thing you know they will ban Valentine's Day-it will become an HR issue and ban cards and comments!
George Robertson – They should ban Valentine's Day. It's a fucking waste of time and is nothing but a commercialized holiday to sell cards, flowers and chocolate. Valentine's Day is probably the most worthless holiday. If you need someone to remind you once a year to tell that special someone you love him or her, you have issues (not you, a general you).
I personally celebrate Christmas. Not because I am a Christian or want to praise Jesus, but because I have to. My family is almost all Christian and it is wonderful being with my family (especially when the Holiday falls on a weekday and I can get a paid day off). But I also celebrate the winter solstice, which is the original reason for the season. I think that songs mentioning Santa should be fine, but is it so bad to ask that AT SCHOOL EVENTS we limit the references to Christianity and Jesus. at SCHOOL EVENTS lets not sing the dreidel song. At home, in church, walking the neighborhood caroling… those are all great times to enjoy the religious music of the season.
What I find most offensive is all the Christians saying that they are not being given their religious freedom to celebrate… Christianity is THE ONLY FAITH THAT REQUIRES THAT EVERYBODY PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR HOLIDAY! Jews don't get butt hurt when you want to exclude the menorah from your parties. It doesn't become a news story. Only Christians start to cry the second that anybody asks them to think about the issue and try to see the other side.
From now on I will be saying "Happy Solstice" or Happy Ramadan" or Happy Embolc" to people on any given holiday. I bet people start getting weirded out by being reminded constantly of other faith's holidays.
Jesse – Can you imagine if Chanukah was a federal holiday? EIGHT DAYS off?!! That would be awesome! (Oh and Ramadan already happened…it's usually Aug-Oct…depends on the lunar calendar). But Ashura just occurred. People want to talk about being attacked for their religion – ask those Shiites who were just blown up celebrating their belief about what it's like to be attacked. Then the Christians should tell them "Oh well we got our carols taken away in schools!! I know how you feel!"
Jesse – CHRISTMAS is a national holiday, recognized by Congress and established by law. George Washington himself signed it into law. He never mentioned the Winter Soltice. You can worship rocks and shadows any time you like, but we (the Christian majority in this nation) should be allowed to celebrate the national holiday the way it was meant to be celebrated. "The reason for the season" is not animism, Wicca or any other bogus belief system that waits for a cosmic anomaly to occur and calls it a "belief". Get real.
Enjoy your paid day off, you selfish ingrate, Mr. Hateweasel.
Bil Carter Actually the "reason for the season" WAS originally winter solistice. The Christians incorporated it into their beliefs so that they could convert more "pagans" and promised them "Oh yeah you can still celebrate Saturnalia how you want after you're a Christian." Well that was bs. And Bill – just because you don't believe in other religions or beliefs doesn't make them "bogus." Maybe you should get real. Just because it's now celebrate by Christians doesn't mean other people can't have the day off. You do realize that the Pilgrims PUNISHED people for putting up trees or saying "Merry Christmas." Oh and that Congress for 67 years worked on Christmas day – that's how our Founders celebrated Christmas. The only "selfish ingrate" "Mr. Hatweasel" is you. Can't you at least spell the guy's name right? What a douche!
Bil Carter Bil you are an idiot. Every single time you post, it's something stupid. Calling people "fags" on an open forum – I sincerely hope you're setting a better example than that to your child.
Kelly Calder I don't need a lesson in orbital mechanics and astrophysics. I'm aware of what causes the weather to change. When we say "the reason for the season", we aren't referring to shorter days and longer nights, we're referring to the coming of Jesus Christ, a much more significant event than a recurring excuse to put your woolly underwear on. So, in fact, the reason for the season is Jesus Christ, not the Winter Solstice.
In case I was misunderstood, let me reiterate, paganism IS, absolutely, without question, a BOGUS religion. It is a loose collection of people who demonstrate instability around accepted authority figures, like church leaders who tell us that there really is a God and He wants us to change our lives to HIS will, not ours. "Pagans" love paid holidays, so they call themselves a religion in order to co-op a system that buckles to minorities who threaten to sue.
Have fun at "Burning Man". Looks like a really deep, spiritual event. And you called me a "douche"? You kiss your mother with that mouth? Act like a lady.
Kelly Calder I don't need a lesson in orbital mechanics and astrophysics. I'm aware of what causes the weather to change. When we say "the reason for the season", we aren't referring to shorter days and longer nights, we're referring to the coming of Jesus Christ, a much more significant event than a recurring excuse to put your woolly underwear on. So, in fact, the reason for the season is Jesus Christ, not the Winter Solstice.
In case I was misunderstood, let me reiterate, paganism IS, absolutely, without question, a BOGUS religion. It is a loose collection of people who demonstrate instability around accepted authority figures, like church leaders who tell us that there really is a God and He wants us to change our lives to HIS will, not ours. "Pagans" love paid holidays, so they call themselves a religion in order to co-op a system that buckles to minorities who threaten to sue.
Have fun at "Burning Man". Looks like a really deep, spiritual event. And you called me a "douche"? You kiss your mother with that mouth? Act like a lady.
Bil Carter Jesus didn't show up in the winter – he was born in the fall. When I said the reason for the season is the CELEBRATION of Saturnalia and the winter solstice. Not the actual solstice itself. You say paganism is a "bogus religion" then why did the Christians have to steal traditions from them? You state that it's a "loose collection" of people who "demonstrate instability." So do some Christians, so do people in every other religion. You sound like one of those who demonstrate instability. "Accepted authority figures like church leaders." Oh you mean the same church leaders who let LITTLE BOYS get molested? Those church leaders? Yeah sorry but I'm not going to follow "religious leaders" who allow children to be taken advantage of. I'm not going to follow a book WRITTEN BY MAN. I'm going to believe in what I believe in. I believe there is possibly a higher power. But I have NO RIGHT to claim I know who or what it is, or what it wants. NOONE on this planet has that right. Pagans existed before Christians and not everyone gets a paid holiday on Christmas you jerk. I was deployed for 27 months – we don't get "vacations" in the desert. But I sacrifice so people like YOU can spew your hatred and vile words without fear of retribution. Go to some of these other countries and say you're a Christian. See how long you live.
"Burning Man?" Who do you think I am some hippie? Um no sorry but I don't do that shit. Yes I did call you a douche. I call it how I see it. If I see someone acting like a douche I call them a douche. I actually don't have a mother AND I'm not a lady. So I won't act like one. Never have, never will. But I am an American AND I'm a soldier. That much I do know. Enjoy your freedoms and your ability to sound like an ignorant fool.
Bil Carter The reason isn't the solstice itself – it's the celebration of those things. Celebrations that Christians STOLE in order to convert more people.
If paganism is as a "loose collection of people who demonstrate instability" then why did the Christians have to steal their traditions to convert them? Accepted authority figures? Oh you mean the same “authority figures” who allowed CHILDREN to be molested? Really? That’s the type of figures you want to follow and listen to? Then feel free but I won’t. I won’t follow any religions because they are all inconsistent and they are ALL THE SAME. Go back through history and see how many belief systems have the same stories. Everyone believes in the same god and every time science figures out how something works, more and more of that religion disappears. Someday I hope there is either no religion or one belief that encompasses it all.
Not everyone gets “paid holidays.” I spent 27 months in Iraq. No weekends, no holidays. I believe pagans existed before Christians did. Christianity is a relatively young religion compared to some others.
Burning Man? Really? Is that even in existence? Are you stuck in another decade? I’m not a hippy or some weird shit like that. Yes I did call you a douche – I call it how I see it. Don’t act like a douche and I won’t have to call you out. I don’t have a mother so no I don’t kiss her with that mouth – that is also a ridiculously old and stupid saying. Also I’m not a lady. Never have been and never will be. I’m an American and I’m a soldier. Two things I take very seriously. I and others serve so YOU have the right to say what you want and believe what you want. Go to some other countries and say you’re a Christian. See how long you live. Christians aren’t attacked here. Are gatherings of Christians bombed? No – but a gathering of Shia Muslims were bombed in Afghanistan practicing their religion. So you have no idea what it’s like to be attacked for your belief.
Also I hope you realize that there are right now “Pagans”, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, non-believers, Christians, etc, etc, all serving and in harms way so YOU can be free to be an ignorant fool. But you have no idea about that nor do you care. I took an oath to protect the Constitution – not “god.”
Bil Carter I am a pagan, but would never go to "Burning man". I have friends that go, but they don't go for any spiritual reason. I know little about what goes on there, but i think they are more like yuppies cutting loose than spiritual folks. I think Kelly's comment is just trying to show you that there are other holidays at this time of year that are celebrated by other people. also, i wonder how would Jesus react to the way that people celebrate "his birthday" in todays day and age. I bet if he was here, and came into my house, he would throw down the xmas tree and preach against the commercialization of HIS NAME, just like he treated the money changers in the temple.
What ever happened to "one nation under GOD"? If you don't like what our country was built on and our freedoms, then pack your bags and leave! I'll be they can't condem their schools, churches and government or nor do they have freedom of speech and religion or they wouldn't be here! Christmas is part of who we are and what we believe as a "nation under God"! Why are you all here if you don't like it? If you are so offended, then leave, please! Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and what ever else you want to call it….it is the celebration of the birth of Jesus, no matter how you slice it!
Kim Johnson – That phrase wasn't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until the 1950s. So I guess before that we weren't a "nation under god." Oh here we go again – if you don't believe what the Christians do you better "get out" of America. (Oh and do some research – Christmas didn't originally start out as celebrating Jesus. It was stolen from the pagans by the Christians).
Honestly Rick Perry is wrong about there being a "War on Religion".. Its a war on Christians, I say this because so far the only Religion I have seen beaten up again and again is Christianity.
David Shurig – go to some other countries that don't tolerate Christianity and you'll really see a "war on Christians." I was in Iraq where Christians are a minority and churches would get blown up, those who were open about it were targeted. But you're right – not being able to sing Christmas carols is just downright horrible. How dare someone do that? That's almost the same as getting blown up. I'm sure it's also horrible when you get pulled aside at the airport during screening or a flight attendant overhears a conversation and "thinks" she heard you say something you didn't…oh wait.
Kelly– Not all wars are bombs and bullets, I pulled 3 tours in Iraq and have seen that kind of war. This kind is much much worse because the trick you into thinking its ok and right to mock and tear down the Christian beliefs that helped make this country Great. There have been mistakes made by Christians in the past present and there will be mistakes in the future, but the key is to learn from them. Currently we are seeing what happens when we people move away from the Core that make this country great and that is our Christian heritage.
David Shurig I did two deployments in Iraq – so yeah I know there are different kinds of wars and I knew that before I was in the Army. It's called reading. Religion has nothing to do with the way America is. Nothing. Our country was founded so that ALL beliefs or non-beliefs could be celebrated. Our country was founded so that people would have a haven to go to in order to practice their beliefs and be free. But go ahead – spout that Christianity bullshit some more. You totally ignored what I said about people who are ACTUALLY persecuted in this country for what they believe. Or don't believe. Just because those who are not Christian or not religious are finally standing up for themselves, people say "oh it's a 'war' against Christians." No it's people tired of the bullshit.
David Shurig I did two deployments in Iraq – so yeah I know there are different kinds of wars and I knew that before I was in the Army. It's called reading. Religion has nothing to do with the way America is. Nothing. Our country was founded so that ALL beliefs or non-beliefs could be celebrated. Our country was founded so that people would have a haven to go to in order to practice their beliefs and be free. But go ahead – spout that Christianity bullshit some more. You totally ignored what I said about people who are ACTUALLY persecuted in this country for what they believe. Or don't believe. Just because those who are not Christian or not religious are finally standing up for themselves, people say "oh it's a 'war' against Christians." No it's people tired of the bullshit.
Last I checked nobody had the right to NOT be offended. Oh, you find that offensive? Well that offends me! And I demand to be appeased! The world has gone mad…
I hate stupid people! I don't care if it offends people!
Merry Christmas to those who believe…Marry commerce day to those who do not.
I know a guy who was told by one of his employees that she wouldn't be coming to work the day before they got off for the christmas holiday because she was a jehova's witness and didn't want to be involved with any part of the christmas themed decor and luncheon that they would have. so the boss simply said, if you don't want to be involved that's totally fine…just come in and make up the work you missed on chrstmas day, ill leave you a key to get in. can you guess who ended up coming to the 'christmas lunch'?
idiots.
Political Correctness offends me, so we can ban it now, right?
Liberal political correctness and blood sucking liberal activists lawyers run amok. They want to destroy every traditional American, Christian and family value they can.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/dba_jefferson.html
We used to be able to not only mention Christ in the classroom, the Bible was the standard textbook.
'Separation of church and state' is not in the Constitution. It's from Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists. All the relevant portion of the First Amendment says is that Congress can't mandate one religion over the others or tell us how to worship.
That's it, remove God from our country and let the Muslims take over. What is wrong with you people!
there is a wind that will blow from the east gate of jerusalem……to the west!
So, instead of singing Christmas songs that actually talk about Christmas, they're allowing students to sing the "date rape song" ("Baby, It's Cold Outside" – really listen to it. lol.) This is getting ridiculous. *I* am offended that we can't celebrate Christmas in public these days.
The adviser told the kid to leave out any song that mentions Santa? Since when did Santa become a religious figure in the United States? Is there a new religious movement, of which I am not aware, in the US that worships Santa?
This happens more then you think unfortunately. The district I work in does not allow Christmas songs mentioning Jesus, but Hanukkah and Kwanza are allowed. I say Merry Christmas everyone!
In rebuke to the schools and the ACLU. This is lovely! "Mary, Did You Know?" By Mark Lowry (with David Phelps & Guy Penrod).
http://www.youtube.com