Jun 10, 2012
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NEW YORK POST – A New York City principal has forbidden children from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation ceremony because it might offend other cultures.
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The New York Post reported that Greta Hawkins, the principal of the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island, instructed teachers to pull the song from the graduation ceremony — even though the boys and girls spent months learning the patriotic song.
Principal Hawkins - NYPost
“We don’t want to offend other cultures,” they quoted her as explaining.
Department of Education spokeswoman Jessica Scaperotti defended the principal’s decision. They told the New York Post that Hawkins found the lyrics “too grown up” for 5-year-olds.
However, the students are still expected to perform an arrangement of the Justin Bieber song, “Baby.”
Many of the parents — who happen to be immigrants — are furious and want the children to perform “God Bless the USA.”
“A lot of people fought to move to America to live freely, so that song should be sung with a whole lot of pride,” said mom Luz Lozada, whose son, Daniel, is in kindergarten.
Parents — many immigrants from Pakistan, Mexico and Ecuador — “love it,” Lozada told the newspaper.
A teacher agreed: “It makes them a little goosebumpy and teary-eyed. I’ve never come across anyone who felt it insulted their culture.”
Read the entire story at the New York Post. Click here.
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This is exactly what is wrong with our country, everyone wants to come to America because it is the best country bar none,, however when they get here they frown on the people who were born here to praise it,,,,,,,,,
Couldn't agree with you more Al
Didn't you read the story? The immigrant parents are upset that the kids CAN'T sing the song. They immigrant parents ARE proud to be here and WANT the children to sing the song. It's the stupid leftist principal who doesn't want it. WHERE'S THE SENSE IN THAT??
Didn't you read the story? The immigrant parents are upset that the kids CAN'T sing the song. They immigrant parents ARE proud to be here and WANT the children to sing the song. It's the stupid leftist principal who doesn't want it. WHERE'S THE SENSE IN THAT??
Really, best country bar none? Where have you been?
No, what's wrong with our country is the haughty arrogance that believes that our country is "the best country bar none". Never traveled outside the US? There are a lot of other countries who have many superior or at least equal qualities to America in many ways.
Arrogance is using the Internet to criticize the country that created it…or is that chutzpah?
Who criticized America?
Zzzzzzzzz
Then pick a country and move there. No hard feelings.
This is an avoidance tactic for people who cannot offer a convincing rebuttal or argument. EPIC FAIL, Joel.
Tod Thompson NO, that's called "perspective", Tod.
Then you should go Live in some other country of your choice and just see how much choice you really have, son!!!!
Then you should go Live in some other country of your choice and just see how much choice you really have, son!!!!
That's not an argument, Yvonne. Why don't YOU go live in a country where you're not offended by nonbelievers? You can't shoot the messenger and hope that the message they carried just doesn't exist?
Tim Gale what country would say that is, then..
iZZZZZZZZZ if you dont have pride in the home team? then pack yer bags and go live in one of those countries nobody is stopping you
iZZZZZZZZZ if you dont have pride in the home team? then pack yer bags and go live in one of those countries nobody is stopping you
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz she likes living here just like I like living here we didnt come to you to argue , you came to us so my question is you like to argue or they are paying you or both yep Ive seen where bloggers are getting paid lol thats funny
Mike, I've been around the whole world enough to know that no "one" country has a monopoly on being "great". There are awesome things–and awesome people–in every country I've been to. And some of them, believe it or not, even have better, more humane policies than America has right now. And no, sadly, no one is paying me to write here. I'm just bored on a business trip in a hotel.
Ah, nothing like trying to brainwash 5 year olds with imaginary beings……
Words fail me – except this one: IDIOT!!
go be a trendy, militant little athiest somewhere else, punk.
Linda Stoehr
Dont worry, he's in the minority of indoctrinated idiots.
Ah, nothing like the the 2% telling the rest of us what to do!
You don't like the1st Amendment–leave.
Howard is just another atheist that doesn't believe in God and hates him.
Probably worships Oblahblah!
If you don't believe in God, then the word 'God' in a song has no meaning to you. How can you be offended by something, or a word, that has no meaning to you? The answer is that you are offended that it has meaning to others.
Howie here is looking for attention, just drink your koolaid and smoke your weed and be happy.
Linda Stoehr , people that believe in a 'god'? Absolutely!
It's been proven beyond doubt that those who believe in 'gods' are of considerably diminished intelligence….
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm
You could read the literature or just peruse the comments of those 'god' believers, lol….
Barry Whitehead , it's not possible to 'hate' something that doesn't exist….
If it is nothing why do you waste so much time on the subject? You will not change any minds here. You should spend time on something YOU believe in if that exists, outside of your love for yourself.
Howard Aubrey
Ok, I read your article, don't believe it. And by the way, I don't believe in 'gods'.
IMO, persons that take your stance have a problem with rationalizing their sinful behavior so they MUST deny the possibility of accountability. For your sake I hope you're right.
Try this literature on for size -
http://www.examiner.com/article/liberals-have-a-mental-disorder-says-doctor
Indoctrination is exactly what it is. If my daughter was forced to sing songs praising a god, I would be raising hell.
Linda, the irony of your dismissal of 10 plus years of empirical research because you 'don't believe it', is only outdone by the irony of your belief that one persons opinion constitutes 'literature'….
http://rt.com/usa/news/conservative-ideologies-science-group-477/
Nick Wrong
Its your right if you dont want your daughter singing these songs, and "God Bless the USA" isnt a song sung in churches, its something more of a patriotic song by freedom loving people who want America to continue to be a great nation and a bastion of freedom. But be my guest and raise hell, pull your daughter out of particicipation but dont cry about it to the point where you try to ruin the moment for everyone like Michael Newdow has tried. As a side note, I took notice on another thread that the pic on your profile is your little girl. Come on man, use your head, put a pic of yourself or something else on there and not your little girl. What parent in their right mind would display their childs pic on here disregarding the fact that theres child predators and sickos out there?
Coward Aubrey
You seem to obsess about these kinds of threads even to the point of throwing in your trademark links to publications that really know one gives a hootin damn about. People are free to believe in God as much as you're free to think that universe began with a big bang (an event that had to have a cause and a purpose behind it, and without cause and purpose it shouldnt have been), and proteins in the oceans that supposedly created life that supposedly evolved into amphbians which continued to supposedly evolve over a gajillion years later into quadrapeds and bipeds, the two legged version being your ape ancestors who supposedly became man. Run with that and let people be to believe what they will. You're never going to sway any opinions especially coming in here like a condescending arrogant ass.
Howard Aubrey
I fail to see where, according to your first article, that defying your 'natural evolutionary tendancy' is intelligent.
But then, I don't believe in the evolution faith, your don't believe in my Christian faith.
Like I said – you best be right or you lose, if I'm wrong I still win. Have a nice life.
Nick Wright Nick's a whiny ass lib.
Well Linda, our 'natural evolutionary tendency' consisted of propagating our species through rape… Perhaps you don't consider defying that practice to be intelligent,( and it's true that one can't pick up a newspaper without encountering a story about one of your fellow christians pursuing such activity with a little boy), but I find it inappropriate.
Joel Rivera absolutely right. They are the minority, they just whine more than anyone else.
Joel Rivera — you're absolutely correct about that, Joel. Most "Indoctrinated idiots" are religious.
Barry Whitehead — how can you possibly "hate" something which you don't believe in?? I'm laughing!
Linda Stoehr WOW, it's been a long time since I saw someone actually post Pascal's Wager as an attempt at an argument!
Linda Stoehr WOW, it's been a long time since I saw someone actually post Pascal's Wager as an attempt at an argument!
Really?!?!?! Don't get around much huh?
The premise of the wager is valid. It is simplistic but look who I'm writing to.
Are you referring to Barry. His history is purely imaginary.
lol @ proven beyond a doubt. Howard, all your pathetic article proves is that a bunch of atheists got together and decided they were more intelligent than everyone else. If you're so intelligent then just do away with the public schools and let those of us who send our kids to a private school or home school keep our money. If you're so brilliant you should be able to educate your own kids without my money.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz
And only an indoctrinated victim of taxpayer funded, and government run education could ever come up with such a name like Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz. Either that or you're sniffing too much of your own biological product there son.
Coward Aubrey
"Well Linda, our 'natural evolutionary tendency' consisted of propagating our species through rape…"
Well then, and here you came to be. That comment surely explains your existence explicitly. On another note, first you show your perverted nature with an asinine question and an analyzation so thorough in a previous thread that I could almost swear that you were mirroring your own existence stuck between living inside the closet and trying to open the front door, and now you're obsessing yet again, this time about rape. You generalize people too much based on a few bad apples who are held under extreme comtempt and shame by people of faith everywhere. You need to get a clue, then get a life.
It's important to remember that in this Country, the 'majority' are grossly overweight and the 'majority' of adults can't read above the 4th grade level….
In other words, the 'majority' of Americans are technically fat and stupid… Most come from the red states….
The smart ones here would like to change this…. conservatives enjoy being fat and stupid…
Joel Rivera , I notice you've given yourself a 'like' again, and that's just sad. Didn't mommy and daddy give you enough support?
In any event, are there any adults living in your trailer that could transcribe your comments into 'English'? It's a bit painful reading your comments when they're written at the 3rd grade level.
Thanks!
Joel, you've got a lot of bark, but are sincerely under-endowed when it comes to "bite". A lot of whining, sneering potshots are all I see from you. Got intelligence? Or are you another "victim of taxpayer funded, and government run education"? Uh huh. Probably a charter-school guy, lol?
Linda Stoehr Really? The premise is "valid"? Is that what your spiritual counselor told ya?
In certain intellectually-mundane circles, I suppose that the premise suffices, but we here in the real world know that it's a weak one upon which to base a life philosophy.
Tod, if you had actually read the article you would know that your claim that it was written by 'atheists' is incorrect. You would also realize that the results come from more than 10 years of empirical research and that no one 'decided' anything.
It's OK little fella, scholarly papers are difficult to read for many people, you are not alone.
As for schooling, I guess you just don't realize that one pays school taxes whether or not they attend public schools, so your little rant is rather moronic.
It's highly unlikely that any of your money has ever gone toward anything in my life….in any event, a much more worthwhile boost to the economy would come from taxing the parasitic religious institutions that contribute so little good and so much bad to our society….
We might say the same Tod, only then we'd be surrendering the future of our country to simpletons who think that the Earth is only 2,000 years old and that dinosaurs pulled farm carts for early humans on a flat earth around which the sun and all the planets revolve.
Coward Aubrey
Howie you typical perv, your immaturity is evident. Give it up, people dont really care what you have to say given your blind obsession, condesending attitude, and insipid remarks. You're trying too hard but getting know where.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz
Zzzzzzzzzzz, Where's your intelligence? Flushed down the toilet with leftovers of your common sense? Yeah, typical failed former pupil of a failed big brother. You have neither bark, nor bite. Be a man, use your real name and a real pic, dont be a coward.
Sorry, Joel, but pseudo-macho callouts and weak responses like that don't bolster my respect for your limited point of view.
Nice Facebook site, by the way–chock full of Islamophobia, misogyny, and other typical bigotry, racism and hatred typical of the extreme Right wing,…
Nick Wright "If my daughter was forced to sing songs praising a god, I would be raising hell." So you believe in hell.
Nick Wright "If my daughter was forced to sing songs praising a god, I would be raising hell." So you believe in hell.
God,Jesus,Holy Spirit are one.
"One" big MYTH.
See "International Christian Concern" for people who really are trying to help the ones who are Christian.
All who are not proud to be American or the American way of life, Don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out!
It has nothing to do with being proud of being an American. It has everything to do with the inclusion of a supernatural deity that probably does not exist.
Nick Wright Don't try and push YOUR goober thoughts on others.
Nick Wright Yvonne Fitts' comment is correct, because America was founded on belief in God.
Nick Wright – I am an atheist.
My lack of faith, is based on what I hold to be the only rational conclusion I can come to concerning God.
There is no God. There are no Gods.
I can do this while fully admitting that my sense of right and wrong, good and evil, as it were, are based fundamentally on Judeo-Christian ethic and beliefs. I acknowledge the source of my morality. This is how I was taught. This is how I was brought up.
I do my best to represent atheism without being belligerent or antagonistic. If Christians wish to put up a nativity scene in front of the local court house, I really don't care. Singing "God Bless the USA" doesn't offend me, it reminds me how lucky I am to live here.
You see, I am so confident in my conclusions that I do not fear displays of faith by those who do believe. In my humble opinion when atheists object so heavily to the word "God" they have issues themselves which are best explored in church.
I.e. methinks you doth protest too much. LIve, and let live.
Thelonious Mac That's very respectful of other's opinions. I was wondering, if you don't mind answering here, what makes it the 'only rational conclusion'? Appreciate your input.
But NOT an explicitly "Christian" God. If you knew anything about the writing and ratification of the Constitution, you would know that Christian ministers tried NUMEROUS times to get references to Christianity and Jesus Christ inserted into the Constitution, and it was rejected EACH TIME.
Zzzzzzzz
"Divine Providence" "In God We Trust" "Endowed with our Creator with certain unalienable rights".
EXACTLY, Joel–those are DEIST terms, NOT "Christian".
Come on, man–this is BASIC HISTORY!
Zzzzzzz
"We've staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all our heart"- James Madison
"You can't have national morality apart from religious principle" – George Washington in his farewell address.
Of the 55 men who formed the Constitution, 52 where active church members.
The Founders cited 27 Biblical violations of the tyrannical crown before writing the Declaration of Independance.
This is basic history too.
"The States, which is in NO WAY founded upon the Christian religion…"–the Treaty of Tripoli, written AFTER the Constitution. Oops!
Nice try, Joel, but quote-mining the Founding Fathers is a little like quoting Scripture–you get go on and on, and find a quote that supports any position. That's why I"m not going to do it. Several FF's expressed clear contempt for Christianity. And in any case, had they wanted an EXPLICIT reference or endorsement of Christianity in there–or in any other foundational document–the would have put it in. THEY DID NOT THOUGH. The proof is in the pudding.
I guess you also forget the salient fact that the FF's also owned slaves, and did nothing to free them whilst writing about "unalienable rights" due to "every man"? huh? Doesn't that strike you as strange? If your argument had any validity, you would be protesting abolition as well.
Thelonious Mac, 2 points.
1. I have no problem with displays of faith. I have problem with the government endorsing displays of faith. Government is not to prefer one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. Its the constitution man.
2. You can say morals come from judeo-christian tradition, but that's not the only place in history where you will find morals. Confucius had a variation of the 'golden rule' 500 years before Jesus's time. Just as you said, that's how you were brought up. But there are many good and moral people who are not brought up as christians or even religious, where do they get it from?
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz You can't argue with these flat earthers. They have their perspective of this country and no amount of facts will change that.
I hear ya, Nick. But we have to try. I think of it as my "former-Christian duty", lol. As I have been saved from my religious upbringing by Education and research, so must I try to save others from this mental scourge.The funny hing is, all the information is out there; you just have to have eyes to see it.
Nick Wright It has to do with BLACKS hating Whites moron…your grandchildren will pay for your stupidity!
Nick Wright Sounds more like you've created a fantasy history in your head in order to live in the U.S. One nation under God. The further we get away from that, the less moral, and the less self-sufficient this country becomes.
Denise, talk about being ignorant of history?! "Under God" was NOT in the original wording of that bastardized pledge–which, ironically, was written by a Christian Baptist minister who had the good sense and knowledge of history not to mix religion with politics. The damnable phase "under God" was put in ONLY in 1954–the height of the "Commie scare", and in order to provide a deliberate juxtaposition to the stated atheism of Stalin's regime.
Isn't it ironic, that ever since the ascension of the Religious Right in this country's politics, and the cozy relationship that it's cultivated with the Rightwing, that the country has been becoming markedly MORE hostile, divided, and uncivil? AND more raped and dominated by Big Business screwing the Middle Class? Can you even recognize this fact, or are you REALLY so deluded in your religious indoctrination and spoon-fed opinions? Get your head out of your ass, please.
My God!!!! Offesive to other culture?? is she crazy?? First and foremost, if you are living in the U.S.A. and you work, or collect Welfare, free medical assistance, in other words you are here to exploit this great country of ours, then you should not be offended by one of the greatest songs ever written, and if you don't like it, then get the hell out, go back to where you came from. In refference to that liberal principal, she should be fired, she does not belong in any school, dealing with children or for that matter adults. God Bless the U.S.A.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Thanks for all of your long replies. It eliminates the need for anyone to point out not only your ignorance, but your obviously crude upbringing.
Really? That's all you can offer? My "long replies" show that at least I've got more understanding of this issue than one who has the chutzpah to accuse me of 'ignorance" after opining that the country is going to hell because we don't beg "God" for some dubious "blessing"?! I'll sleep well, Denise, thank you.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz We understand that you want God out of everything. You can eliminate Him from your life, but can only attempt to eliminate Him from the lives of of others. Again, your denial that He exists doesn't change the fact that He does.
Denise, your own myopia blinds you and limits your ability to reason. Your fervent hope that a "God" exists–despite NO EVIDENCE that he does–is a matter of "Faith", pure and simple. "Faith" is not about "facts"; it is about a decision to believe in things unproven and unprovable. PERIOD.
MY outlook, on the other hand, says "prove Him to me, and I will believe". THAT is the way that a logical mind functions. I understand if you cannot understand the difference.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz It isn't my fervent hope that God exists. I couldn't muster up enough faith for something for which I was just "hoping". Your heart is hardened and based on your writing, you're an angry person. You're not looking for someone to prove anything to you. You NEED to keep saying God doesn't exist, because that's your "fervent hope".
Agree with that, Denise. There is nothing that would satisfy Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz . He's rejecting God and trying to make it seem logical. He wants to eliminate the Creator and salvation because he wants to be ok with who he is.
Ha ha, sssheeeesh! Honestly, both you, Denise, and Angelina have your pathetic–and they TRULY ARE "pathetic"–rationalizations pretty firmly entrenched, I see? Again, I repeat my simple challenge to you–PROVE TO ME THAT "GOD" EXISTS AND I WILL BELIEVE IN HIM. That's it. Can you understand that?
But until you can, spare me your wishful thinking for a God who "loves" and"cares" about you or I or anyone for that matter when there are MILLIONS of people who are suffering in destitution, disease, poverty, and despair–people who are NO DOUBT better "Christians" than either you both or I could ever have been. Your myopia and desperate need to believe that you have some mythical "father" somewhere "watching over you" only shows that you are mentally still in psychological role and mindset of a dependent and gullible CHILD. I'm not surprised that someone who presents a very adult, mature expression of logical thinking and who challenges the falsehoods which form the foundational basis for your psychological framework sends you off the rails.
Ha ha, sssheeeesh! Honestly, both you, Denise, and Angelina have your pathetic–and they TRULY ARE "pathetic"–rationalizations pretty firmly entrenched, I see? Again, I repeat my simple challenge to you–PROVE TO ME THAT "GOD" EXISTS AND I WILL BELIEVE IN HIM. That's it. Can you understand that?
But until you can, spare me your wishful thinking for a God who "loves" and"cares" about you or I or anyone for that matter when there are MILLIONS of people who are suffering in destitution, disease, poverty, and despair–people who are NO DOUBT better "Christians" than either you both or I could ever have been. Your myopia and desperate need to believe that you have some mythical "father" somewhere "watching over you" only shows that you are mentally still in psychological role and mindset of a dependent and gullible CHILD. I'm not surprised that someone who presents a very adult, mature expression of logical thinking and who challenges the falsehoods which form the foundational basis for your psychological framework sends you off the rails.
Angelina Sugia Wrong, Angela. PROVE TO ME THAT "GOD" EXISTS AND I WILL BELIEVE IN HIM AS FERVENTLY AS I DENY THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD WHO IS STILL UN-PROVEN.
Can you do that? No? Then you must accept the fallacy of your position. It's that simple. "Faith" is not "FACT"!
Angelina Sugia Wrong, Angela. PROVE TO ME THAT "GOD" EXISTS AND I WILL BELIEVE IN HIM AS FERVENTLY AS I DENY THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD WHO IS STILL UN-PROVEN.
Can you do that? No? Then you must accept the fallacy of your position. It's that simple. "Faith" is not "FACT"!
Why do ATHEISTS feel they MUST force their briefs on everyone? No one is telling them what to believe,only to be tolerant of the vast majority, that believe in a god. But the bully and try to crush anyone they can—how pathetic!
Why do ATHEISTS feel they MUST force their briefs on everyone? No one is telling them what to believe,only to be tolerant of the vast majority, that believe in a god. But the bully and try to crush anyone they can—how pathetic!
Thelonious Mac , well said Mac. I am not offended by your beliefs, but we have more in common than we don't.
Cheers!
Carrie. this stock whiny complaint from you as a Christian only underscores the tunnel vision and myopic, willful blindness which those of your ilk labor under. The pushback from Atheists against the incessant assault of the Religious RIght and their desperate flock is a result of a deliberate campaign to willfully rewrite history and to promote this myth of a "Christian nation" while trying to force into Law the beliefs which your kind are finding harder and harder to get people to accept willingly.
Witness the attempts to deceive the Dover school board into adopting Creationist views; the increasing attacks on Contraception, Women's reproductive rights, The attempts to limit Gay rights–all based upon religious ideology. Seriously–when you make such ridiculous complaints, you portray yourself as willfully ignorant of the reality of contemporary culture and society and the events that are shaping (or ATTEMPTING to shape) our world.
Come out of your cocoon, please.
Angelina Sugia . Well said It's taken awhile to read through all of this, but it's obvious when someone just enjoys controversy and hate. I don't need to wonder what's missing from their life. This principal is taking a queue from our Pres. by wanting to get rid of God, and what better place to start than with kids?
Angelina Sugia Well said. Some people just love to hate, because God is missing from their life.
Nick Wright – You are welcome to go found your own country without "a supernatural deity that probably does not exist". But in this country We The People, believe that the "deity" does exist. To quote my father, and his, and his…. "Love it, or leave it".
Nick Wright – You are welcome to go found your own country without "a supernatural deity that probably does not exist". But in this country We The People, believe that the "deity" does exist. To quote my father, and his, and his…. "Love it, or leave it".
Nick Wright – You are welcome to go found your own country without "a supernatural deity that probably does not exist". But in this country We The People, believe that the "deity" does exist. To quote my father, and his, and his…. "Love it, or leave it".
Ha ha! Another "love it or leave it" comment! If I had a dime….hey guess what, James? it's OUR COUNTRY TOO!!!!
Nick Wright, you have a problem? pack you and your families bags and get the "" out of America.
"God Bless America" has been sung in the classroom long before "other cultures" began coming here. and long before the aclu and athiests started crying foul. Its an offense to not be able to sing a song that is deeply rooted in American traditions so as not to offend cultures or newcomers who do not know the American experiance or what it is to be an American. THis un American dumb broad, the so called prinicipal Hawkins just took a page out of the communist play book that would make them blush with pride. These new cultures are in "our" country, we're not in theirs, and its pretty damn ridiculous to bow down to political correctness just for the sake of not offending some insignificant little feelings of those who just need to grow up and man up.
While I agree with the overall sentiment, a little fact correction is in order. God Bless the USA is not God Bless America. God Bless the USA was written/released in 1984 by Lee Greenwood (vs 1918 and Irving Berlin for God Bless America), so I don't think you can call it "deeply rooted" just yet.
My mistake. Its deeply rooted in the hearts of those who believe the song rings true, its Americana at its best. Its just ashamed that we cant express pride in America without being told that its "offensive". I think "God Bless America" and "God Bless the USA" pretty much walk hand in hand, although from different eras, the spirit is still the same.
Yea, a spirit that shuns non-believers. Why can't they just find a patriotic song that doesn't invoke fake gods?
So Nick Wright, I guess you aren't a fan of God Save the Queen either then?
I'm not British, so I can't speak to that. I'm American and I'm tired of being told I'm unpatriotic because I don't believe in a god.
Nick Wright So don't believe and quit spouting off about it.
Maybe your god is fake, but I assure you, my God is very real. And He doesn't shun non-believers — they choose not to believe in Him.
Nick why do I get the idea that it's only "GOD" you have a problem with. Bet you're very tolerant of Allah. My heart goes out to you. Those that have no belief also have no hope. May God turn your heart and mind so you can find serenity in this lifetime.
Prove it. I mean, that your god is "real". If you can't proe it t ome, why should I believe? After all–don't you base your belief on "Faith"? That is, a belief in things unproven and unprovable? If that's true–and I'd wager it is–then your condescension and assumptions are both arrogant and haughty.
Nick, why must you insult and offend the vast majority of Americans by calling our G-d fake? Why are you so intolerant?
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz , why are you so intolerant? Prove to me there is no G-d. You have your beliefs, fine. But the VAST majority of Americans disagree with you. You expect us to be bullied by you yet you will not even give of the curtsy of tolerance! That is VERY bigoted!
Nick Wright Can you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that God, the Father of Jesus the Christ, is fake? You can say whatever you want but, just because you may believe it's so doesn't qualify as fact/proof. Please remember, the burden of proof is on you. Take as much space as you need, be sure to include references and their references. All posts must include documented citations of authenticity. Until that time.
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly–no, sorry; It's not "intolerance" at all. It's simply doing something which you Christians are very uncomfortable with–calling you out to prove your fantastical claim. The mass delusions of am indoctrinated crowd which is ruled by fear and a vested self-interest do not constitute "proof" by any reasonable measure. You and your ilk have made an extraordinary claim for which I see absolutely NO evidence–that there is a personal, caring, "loving" God who rules over us, succoring and guiding us and providing "miracles" to occasionally "prove" his existence while leaving millions in destitution, poverty, starvation, and disease. PROVE YOUR CASE. That's all I ask.
I don't NEED to prove to you that there is NOT a god any more than I don't NEED to prove to you that leprechauns or unicorns DON'T exist, because you don't need to prove a negative–otherwise I or you might go on endlessly positing the existence and realities of any number of fantastical claims and creatures. You ought rather be thanking me for prompting you to explore the nether regions of your brain where these controlling fears reside.
God Bless America was written in1918 for WWI. It was not sung in classrooms before other cultures began coming here – because there is no such thing as America if not for "other cultures". America exists because people from other cultures came here and have been coming here since 1492. Unless you are Native American, you are one of those "Other cultures" you are expressing such contempt for.
Upchuck LIberals, actually, it is YOU who needs to prove your claim. Of over 25 contemporary historical authors who lived at the time of this alleged "Jesus'" lifetime, NOT ONE CONTEMPORARY AUTHOR mentions him. NOT ONE.
A few who have been purported to make oblique references to a "Christ" have been show n to be later interpolations of later CHristian authors, who basically wrote in between the lines "…and Jesus was there!". But they have been exposed by theologists.
You might take your own advice: "… just because you may believe it's so doesn't qualify as fact/proof." IN fact–isn't that why you have your "Faith", i.e., the belief in things UN-PROVEN and/or UN-PROVABLE?!
There is no logical explanation for your stance.
Nick Wrught,I had rather live my life believing in my GOD and when I die find out there is no GOD, and you were right, ( i would have lived a good life of hope))., Than to live my life beleiving There is no GOD and when I die finding that there is indeed a GOD and now it is too late to avoid HELL and damnation!!!For eternity!!!Think on those thoughts……………..
Yvonne, this is not a valid argument. It only seeks to instill fear as a motivating factor in making a decision, and when you introduce fear as a primary mover, you remove logic and reason as the basis for good decisions. I live my life as if there is no God and I'm perfectly happy-as well as moral, ethical, and I dare say MUCH MORE authentically than when I was a Christian, because I no longer work for spiritual "points", but I act because it's the right thing to do. I would wish all could experience the bliss of giving up this belief in gods.
Nick Wright So sorry you don't know anything about God. I will pray for you.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz , I am a Deist, therefore I believe in a God of some sort, though I can not determine whether or not both God and the Universe are infinite, or if the universe is in some way super natural which invokes the power of a God. I have come to this because of what you have stated, there is no direct proof. My problem is that there's life, if the universe were completely without a God or some sort of supernatural entity, then I can not reason why random molecules would come together and form life on any scale. Even single celled organisms possess a level of complexity that do not portray the traits and behaviors of any combination of elements. If they did, then we could easily create life from raw materials.
That said, you are wrong in your hate of religion. You're a bigot, and a fool. Anyone who would blatantly tell another person that what they believe is a fallacy is clearly in need of medical attention. Even though I do not believe in organized religion, the Bible is a literary work of art. It NEEDS to be read to instill the basic character morality you obviously lack. Even if its a 1700 year old story book, it will change your limited life for the better.
In closing, you're an ignorant fool. You're just out here looking for an argument with elderly women to make your small bigoted mind feel a bit more complacent with your failures. I pity you.
Domovan, you're not half as clever as your name would suggest. Your stated life philosophy rests, it seems, on a principle which is, roughly "I don't know how the Laws ofthe Universe work; I can't explain them, but I've been told that the Universe came to be because of a supernatural 'God', so I will take that dubious explanation by default"! Uh, ok, your FAIL.
I am not wrong in my hate of religion. Religion makes claims–as you ignorantly parrot here–that it "instills basic character morality" while its scriptures–(and not ONLY Christian) all speak of slavery, degradation of women, death penalties for human frailties and weaknesses, and wholesale murder of children and innocents by this alleged "loving God". The Bible is FULL of incest, adultery, and murder either overseen by, caused by, or sanctioned by God. For all your bluster, you obviously have never read the Bible? It is literally full of contradiction, scientific errors, fantastical allegories misrepresented as facts, mistranslations, shockingly immoral behavior, and horrific cruelty by none other than God himself. Who's the fool now, Donovan?
Whats more, studies of primitive societies show that altruism and morality exist even in the absence of Religion and religious indctrination. What makes good people is GOOD PARENTING and role models.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz I am not the least bit uncomfortable—I am not the INTOLERANT DEMANDING BULLY–that would be YOU! What you believe is up to you. You chose not to believe the Truth, well, nothing I can do about that, and it is not my place force it on you—but you seem to think it is your place to DEMAND we believe what you believe. That makes you a BULLY, just like this principal.
YOUR raging bigoted PERSONAL attacks proves that you are so full of hate and rage, you cannot even think straight.
I love science. I have read the bible several times, I am also a student of religious history, world and ancient history, archeology, sociology, and philosophy, and the so called contradictions in the bible are only in the minds of bigots, like yourself.
It must suck to be so intolerant and such a hypocrite. Sorry you feel that way. Really, I am.
Carrie, carrie, carrie–sorry to have so UNDONE you! WOW! What you mistake for bigotry is simply the call for you Christians to come up with a better, more convincing argument. Hey, I wouldn't want to be in your position either!
But here; chew on these legitimate contradictions—and then try to tell me that you've "studied" religion and the Bible? PS–Apologetics doesn't count!:
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
It must suck to be so UN-knowledgeable about the religion you profess to follow and its Bible.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Silly,I am not undone—. Not sure why you would think that… You are the one lashing out. What you believe is up to you, it is not my job to twist your arm, or force any thing on you,as you find it is your duty to force you unbelief on Believers. I am sorry you feel that way. I love being in my position by the way
It's all good!
I am pleased you want to understand these verses,and honored to help you out.
It is all in translation. Like I call the Christ Yeshua, because that is the closest English pronunciation of his name which is ישוע. We do not have a direct translation but Yeshua is close.
Heli was the father-in-law of Joseph, the genealogy in Luke is actually Mary's, you really need to be able to read Greek to get these subtleties. Jacob (Eli) was Joseph's (Yosef) father. No contradiction just a mistranslation from Greek to English.
Proverbs 4:7 It is indeed good to have wisdom. But wisdom is NOT knowledge. And with both one must have understanding.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 There are times when having wisdom can cause sorrow. What you don't know can't hurt you. Often what we do know can. This book was written by Solomon during a period of time in his life when he was lamenting about it being meaningless. This verse refers to the fact that many who think they are wise will be proven to be anything but.
1 Corinthians 1:19 G-d will always have more wisdom than we will. Paul here is referring back to Isaiah 29:14 "therefore, I will have to keep shocking these people with astounding and amazing things, until the 'wisdom' of their 'wise ones' vanishes, and the 'discernment' of their 'discerning ones' is hidden away."
No contradiction there, just context and understanding of circumstance in which these verses were written.
As for Isaiah 14:21 and Deuteronomy 24:16 Audience and context is everything!!
Isaiah 14:21 Isaiah was speaking of God's judgment against Babylon,this verse was not about Israel. The Babylonians were to be destroyed (they were) and when Christ returns those like the Babylonians will follow suit. This speaks to G-d's judgement of ecclesiastical evil and political evil in the future.
Deuteronomy 24:16 Is speaking to the Jewish people,and later those grafted in. We are each responsible for our own sin.
No, it does not suck to be me!
Carrie, sorry to put you through that–all the typing. My first reaction was "Is she kidding?!?" Do you realize that you effectively ignored the clear disparity between the "wisdom" verses? You attempted to use sophistry to make an argument. THAT's invalid.
Your Bible's Genesis also posits that the sky, earth, and light were created BEFORE the sun. Wanna explain that misunderstanding of Science to us? Please don' tell me that that has to be understood "in context".
However, I've got a whole list of contradictions, and your argument of "context" is not convincing in the least, as it simply provides "wiggle room" to deny the clear contradictions. And if we can lean on that argument so liberally, then we can "context" most of the Bible into sheer irrelevance and subjectivity. NOT a strong argument to make AT ALL.
I see that you're versed in professional excuse-making, i.e., Apologetics. I'm sorry, but this is just not a field with any integrity or honor. "Translation" is a weak argument, because one would expect that a God who bases Life or Eternal Damnation upon revelation of some alleged "Truth" would AT LEAST make his message clear, and step in to assure that it was properly and clearly presented rather than requiring some dubious degree in the study "context" and "translation" to save one's soul. If this "Yeshua" of yours was a politician, he'd have gone the way of Rick Perry already.
Jacqueline Anstrom, news flash.. "Allah" and "God" are the same deity! The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Muslims and Christians worship the same deity. I don't believe in either's interpretation and I believe neither has any place in our secular government. In fact, the similarities between a large portion of Todd's followers and the hardcore muslims are quite striking. Both groups wish to have their religious beliefs legislated and given preferential treatment. You guys do it in this country, Muslims do it in the Middle East. Another word for "social conservative" is "American Taliban".
Yvonne Fitts So you only believe in a god because you the off chance that there might be a place called hell. Cool, good for you. I live a good and moral life, and if there really is a god, I'd hope it's ego isn't that huge that it needs my belief in it to be considered a good person.
Yvonne Fitts So you only believe in a god because you the off chance that there might be a place called hell. Cool, good for you. I live a good and moral life, and if there really is a god, I'd hope it's ego isn't that huge that it needs my belief in it to be considered a good person.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz , I do not mind the typing. It is my pleasure and my joy to answer anything I can about His Word. I understand your obsession, and I did not ignore anything.
I am sorry you do not like my answers, that does not invalidate them.
I am not an apologist, but your type is a dime a dozen on message boards…in fact the verses you tried to prove contradictory are the typical verses and even the versions and abbreviations were clearly cut-and paste.
My job,as I said is not to convince you, in fact His Word is explicit, if you do not want Him, I am to leave it at that.
I am sorry you have zero tolerance for people who have had the scales removed from their eyes. I do not have to justify myself nor my faith to you.
I answered you appropriately, you did not expect such answers that actually proved beyond doubt that there is ZERO contradiction in what you are claiming.
And i am sure that because of your clear obsession you will again attack this post and try then, to shred me apart again—that is okay. But know this, I have no intention on shoving anything down your throat.I am done, no reason to go on, because you really do not want to know the Truth,yo just want to show your intolerance. I will not get stuck in your goofy loop.
Matthew 5:
11 "How blessed you are when people insult you and persecute you and tell all kinds of vicious lies about you because you follow me! 12 Rejoice, be glad, because your reward in heaven is great — they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way".
Matthew 10:
14 But if the people of a house or town will not welcome you or listen to you, leave it and shake its dust from your feet!
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz , I do not mind the typing. It is my pleasure and my joy to answer anything I can about His Word. I understand your obsession, and I did not ignore anything.
I am sorry you do not like my answers, that does not invalidate them.
I am not an apologist, but your type is a dime a dozen on message boards…in fact the verses you tried to prove contradictory are the typical verses and even the versions and abbreviations were clearly cut-and paste.
My job,as I said is not to convince you, in fact His Word is explicit, if you do not want Him, I am to leave it at that.
I am sorry you have zero tolerance for people who have had the scales removed from their eyes. I do not have to justify myself nor my faith to you.
I answered you appropriately, you did not expect such answers that actually proved beyond doubt that there is ZERO contradiction in what you are claiming.
And i am sure that because of your clear obsession you will again attack this post and try then, to shred me apart again—that is okay. But know this, I have no intention on shoving anything down your throat.I am done, no reason to go on, because you really do not want to know the Truth,yo just want to show your intolerance. I will not get stuck in your goofy loop.
Matthew 5:
11 "How blessed you are when people insult you and persecute you and tell all kinds of vicious lies about you because you follow me! 12 Rejoice, be glad, because your reward in heaven is great — they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way".
Matthew 10:
14 But if the people of a house or town will not welcome you or listen to you, leave it and shake its dust from your feet!
Nick Wright oh yes, from a man who "knows" there is no no G-d! You are going to tell us who G-d is?
Sorry,Allah and YAHVEH are not the same—even if you the almighty authority say so. And what difference does it make to you?
Nick, fact is you will get what you want from G-d, you don't want Him, so you will not be forced to be with Him. No one is good enough–no one. It is simple about following Him…no one is going to force you to love Him.
It is that simple.
Your last statement is ridiculous.
Just beyond ignorant and proves you do not even know who or what the taliban is.
Carrie, I hold no ill will toward you or any other believer. And my only obsession is TRUTH. In fact, the proof of that is the fact that unlike you and the rest of your "faith-full" (misspelling intentional), I am not willing to accept patronizing half-truths and insincere rationalizations of clear hypocrisies and contradictions. I am not willing to subordinate my intellect to fear. And I am not conceited enough to accept that if I only but surrender to the dubious propositions proffered by Religion that I will somehow be "rewarded" for not using the brain that supposedly this "God" gave me to the best of its ability.
Funny that you quoted Matthew 5:11. I have heard this offered before hen a Christian is flustered by their inability to offer a convincing argument. I am always both amused and saddened that you/they cannot see the cynical brilliance of this passage, designed to "reward" the unquestioning and proudly-ignorant. It is filled wit conceit and self-flattery; i.e., comparing one to "the prophets". My, but your chest must pump up?
I am sorry that you see my refusal to accept apologetic-styled excuses and half-rationalizations as "intolerance". If by that you mean that I refuse to "tolerate" willful ignorance and self-deception, then yes–call me "intolerant". I shall never apologize for that. But I Know that there IS a path to letting those scales fall from your eyes. I USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN.
Agreed, Joel Rivera!
Carrie, I don't claim to 'know'. In fact, its absolutely impossible to know with 100% certainty and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I lean towards atheist, but I acknowledge the possibility of a higher deity. Truth is, we really don't know what is beyond this realm, and until I see some evidence of something, I will remain agnostic/leaning atheist.
Sorry you feel that way.
Sorry you feel that way.
Nick Wright It is not up to me to force anything on you, nor argue with you. Th only ones her forcing their beliefs on anyone are the atheists.
Forcing my beliefs on you? I have no desire to stop you from your religion. You are free to say your prayers and go to church.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Picking verses out of context can be twisted to say anything. Gaining knowledge and understanding is of the wisdom and knowledge of God. God bringing to nothing the wisdom ACCORDING TO THIS WORLD (such as yours), are two different things.
its rooted deep enough for me I sure as Heck dont want or need to hear the word ISLAM in the Anthem thats for DAM SURE!!!! Hell Obama isnt American not no but hell no!!!imo Kenya and Indonesia is whats in his bones, read the book Obamas 63 lies
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Above where you say He "rules over us" couldn't be more incorrect. In order for God to rule over us, we have to surrender our will for His. If you look around this world with all its murders, thefts, cheating, etc. it's obvious people are doing whatever feels good to them. Just because God is the Creator, doesn't mean people let Him be the Lord of their life.
Denise Perrin, Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz's only purpose in like is to try and discourage and SHOVE HIS beliefs in everyone's face that he can. He will not be happy until he has everyone in the same state he is in:LOST. He feels it is his duty to convert everyone to his way of thinking,and if you do not he will try to belittle you…and when that does not work..he will insult your intelligence. It comes out of pain, clearly, he was hurt somehow but those who called themselves Christian.
Carrie Washburn Donnelly
The human known by the made up name of Zizzer Zazzer Zzzzzz is bitter and hateful towards people of faith. Its not happy with its life and wishes for anyone who will listen to partake in its hate of the faith. Only the weak of mind will follow it, something akin to what the devil has been doing as of late. Individuals like that have nothing to offer except extreme criticism, intolerance and hate, and yet it claims the high ground in its attack on the faithful. This person is one to feel sorry for.
Oh Denise–HOW DISAPPOINTING! That old "out of context" excuse?! Are you serious? Oh wait–aren't you the one who offered Pascal's bogus "Wager" as an argument? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But what a lousy, pathetic defense of your pseudo-argument! You Christians would just as readily post just about ANY "out of context" verse to condemn or ratify whatever suits your flexible theology.
I'm still waiting patiently for you to "prove" your "God" to me…..any time now…
Honestly, I know you can't. I know you're out of anything but the standard, empty apologetics that come from some pamphlet of website somewhere. Your "God" should have made his message more clear and less ambiguous if he wanted to convince people like me who've actually done their research. I pity you as you labor under this empty and false security blanket of "faith".
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly Again, another spoon-fed, "stock" response. "He was hurt somehow"–get off your delusion, sister. My road to atheism came about after I tried to find the historical truth and basis for the Jesus myth and found it was all an invention. I went searching in order to gird and strengthen my faith that I might slay other nonbelievers with the undeniability of Truth! THE SEARCH ITSELF BROUGHT ME HERE. That is TRUTH.
But I DO understand why you can't find the courage to accept that–every prayer you have that is unanswered, every loved one or close friend who either dies or suffers needlessly and horribly belies the cynical, manipulative myth of a "merciful God". Every senseless accident and tragedy that happens to "the nicest person" exposes the myth of the "omniscient, loving" God. See, I KNOW that you yourself (and your fellow Christians) KNOW that, had you yourself the power and ability and "omniscience" that this God of your allegedly possesses, that YOU YOURSELF would do better. YOU would be a more "merciful" interlocutor than this AWOL "God" is. Deep inside you and your fellow Christians lies this nascent fear that God really DOESN'T exist, because, damnit, He never shows up does he? You're just left to wonder and to comfort yourselves with hollow, insincere platitudes when something awful happens and God doesn't show….again.
As an example–Tell me this—how many amputees has God helped grow back their limbs? How many good Christian soldiers have had their eyesight, or limbs, or lives restored? How many wives and mothers have prayed for them? Or disease victims? Childhood cancer victims? Mental illnesses? Where is your "Merciful God" when these defective, damaged-yet-INNOCENT human beings die so soon before their times?
Prove to me your God exists and I will worship him on bended knee. I'm waiting….
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly Again, another spoon-fed, "stock" response. "He was hurt somehow"–get off your delusion, sister. My road to atheism came about after I tried to find the historical truth and basis for the Jesus myth and found it was all an invention. I went searching in order to gird and strengthen my faith that I might slay other nonbelievers with the undeniability of Truth! THE SEARCH ITSELF BROUGHT ME HERE. That is TRUTH.
But I DO understand why you can't find the courage to accept that–every prayer you have that is unanswered, every loved one or close friend who either dies or suffers needlessly and horribly belies the cynical, manipulative myth of a "merciful God". Every senseless accident and tragedy that happens to "the nicest person" exposes the myth of the "omniscient, loving" God. See, I KNOW that you yourself (and your fellow Christians) KNOW that, had you yourself the power and ability and "omniscience" that this God of your allegedly possesses, that YOU YOURSELF would do better. YOU would be a more "merciful" interlocutor than this AWOL "God" is. Deep inside you and your fellow Christians lies this nascent fear that God really DOESN'T exist, because, damnit, He never shows up does he? You're just left to wonder and to comfort yourselves with hollow, insincere platitudes when something awful happens and God doesn't show….again.
As an example–Tell me this—how many amputees has God helped grow back their limbs? How many good Christian soldiers have had their eyesight, or limbs, or lives restored? How many wives and mothers have prayed for them? Or disease victims? Childhood cancer victims? Mental illnesses? Where is your "Merciful God" when these defective, damaged-yet-INNOCENT human beings die so soon before their times?
Prove to me your God exists and I will worship him on bended knee. I'm waiting….
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly Again, another spoon-fed, "stock" response. "He was hurt somehow"–get off your delusion, sister. My road to atheism came about after I tried to find the historical truth and basis for the Jesus myth and found it was all an invention. I went searching in order to gird and strengthen my faith that I might slay other nonbelievers with the undeniability of Truth! THE SEARCH ITSELF BROUGHT ME HERE. That is TRUTH.
But I DO understand why you can't find the courage to accept that–every prayer you have that is unanswered, every loved one or close friend who either dies or suffers needlessly and horribly belies the cynical, manipulative myth of a "merciful God". Every senseless accident and tragedy that happens to "the nicest person" exposes the myth of the "omniscient, loving" God. See, I KNOW that you yourself (and your fellow Christians) KNOW that, had you yourself the power and ability and "omniscience" that this God of your allegedly possesses, that YOU YOURSELF would do better. YOU would be a more "merciful" interlocutor than this AWOL "God" is. Deep inside you and your fellow Christians lies this nascent fear that God really DOESN'T exist, because, damnit, He never shows up does he? You're just left to wonder and to comfort yourselves with hollow, insincere platitudes when something awful happens and God doesn't show….again.
As an example–Tell me this—how many amputees has God helped grow back their limbs? How many good Christian soldiers have had their eyesight, or limbs, or lives restored? How many wives and mothers have prayed for them? Or disease victims? Childhood cancer victims? Mental illnesses? Where is your "Merciful God" when these defective, damaged-yet-INNOCENT human beings die so soon before their times?
Prove to me your God exists and I will worship him on bended knee. I'm waiting….
Joel Rivera Not bitter, not hateful, Joel. "Disappointed" is a better word. Disappointed that you can't offer some rationalization for believing in something so transparently and obviously a concoction of evil MEN. Disappointed that you allow your intellects to be hijacked and manipulated by fear and guilt.
And mostly, bitterly disappointed that–for all our hypocritical claims to understand "Jesus" and what he meant–you STILL support these faux "Christians" on the Right whose policies are THE FARTHEST THING FROM WHAT IT MEANS TO BE "CHRISTIAN"!!!!!
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO, JOEL???–GIVE THE WEALTHY PERMANENT TAX CUTS?!?!?!
Ya'll make me wanna hurl, honestly. The hypocrisy is like radioactivity.
poor ZZZZZZZ yep Faith its something not everybody has funny thing people that dont believe when they cus they use his name so if hes not real why do they do that ? Aetheist are just affraid of believing in God. Because if they do then theres things that go along with that. How would you know Ive got a deal see Id rather believe and try to live my life the way I need to and die and find out theres no God than to live my life all jacked up and downing other folks and die and find out there is I think eternity is a lot longer than the time we will spend here now. thats for sure, and I believe there has to be people out there that dont believe just to try and test those of us that do believe see glad you dont believe for that reason , personally I would hope you well being . but only you can find that
Joel Rivera lol oh ZZZZZZZZlol they have some guys they are paying to try and discourage and imbarass people on here
Mike, I would point out that delusions of imaginary beings are ALSO something that not everybody has, or at least, I don't have that ANYMORE.
"Faith" is a willful self-delusion, inspired by fear, cultivated by a community which self-medicates itself with repetitive prayer and assurances to each other that "He" "exists".
By the way, you just cited that old rag "Pascal's Wager" again. Man, it's funny how you guys think that that qualifies as "logical thought"?
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly lol looks like Satan is busy here isnt he ? lol I get tickled at the effort these people are putting in here. Just remember theres good people on your side .
What non-believers cannot grasp, is we love G-d through the bad times, when our loved ones suffer and yes—die. When life is horrible and we are homeless, we still love G-d. What they cannot grasp, is many of us are very intelligent, they are so proud they cannot see past their own noses. A Believer cannot be as bright as they are…oh no! How could that be, they will continue to argue because their sole purpose in life is to make everyone as hollow as they are.
They are so self-centered and proud, that until they try and belittle and insult every believer they come across, with their "smarter than thou" attitude they are not satisfied! I find it very sad.
Nick Wright just because you dont believe does that mean that you dont find it an insult to call our God FAKE ??
As I find it sad that you have never adequately explored the limits of your intellect to find out if that which you have been indoctrinated in, and believed out of fear and conceited self-interest in personal "salvation" (I hope for no such dubious "reward" in my search for Truth) is true or not?
Oh BELIEVE ME! I've been there–the willful, purposeful stifling of doubt, the hoping-against-hope, the comfort of the self-delusion when the cognitive dissonance between what you've been told to believe your own common sense and ethical/moral values realizes the apathy and inattentiveness of this allegedlyt "merciful" god. Yup; I"ve been there. And that's why I feel sorry for you. You haven't even begun a quest for Truth yet; you're too scared to find out what Truth actually IS.
Mike Burdette "SATAN"!!!! LOL!
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz "out of context". Facts are funny that way Zzz. Whether it's a history book, or even fiction like, 'Gone with the Wind', when you pick sentences and don't read who is speaking or who they're talking to, or just match random sentences together, it doesn't make sense. You know who loves to pick random sentnces and pretend they go together? Someone who likes to lie and fool other people.
Mike Burdette Yes, if you're not with Jesus your against Him. Matt 12:30
Carrie Washburn-Donnelly Yes, there are a lot of contradictions from Zz. He says he's protecting our beliefs, then says we shouldn't believe it. Then he says he's come to a complete understanding of things and that's how hes' come to his contclusions, then he goes onto say that God hasn't made things clear. In another thread he says he "was" a 'Christian' for a time, but isn't anymore- when there is no such thing. He never truly was.
Angelina. NONSENSE. Pure and simple. Honestly, do you actually THINK, or simply "recite" and parrot what you've been instructed to say to try and explain away BLATANT contradictions? "Gone With the Wind" doesn't place the Civil War at two different historical periods, now, does it?
Take just this ONE: MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
So which is it, Angelina? If Joseph's father "Jacob", or "Heli"?
How about this one: MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying…."
LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people…came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said…"
Did Jesus stand "into a mountain", or "in the plain"? How do you confuse a mountain and a plain??
I won't distress you with more, but you get the picture. Do yourself a favor, and shelf that "context" crap. It's not even truthfiul of valid.
Angelina Sugia Oh brooothher. You can't be with or against Jesus if you don't believe that he ever existed.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz The "plain" in this instance is literally translated " a level place." With regards to the first reference, Jospeh was Jesus' earthly father. Basing your eternal destination on silly things you've twisted is your choice, but attempting to mislead other people so that you feel more comfortable with what you've contrived, is shameful.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz The "plain" in this instance is literally translated " a level place." With regards to the first reference, Jospeh was Jesus' earthly father. Basing your eternal destination on silly things you've twisted is your choice, but attempting to mislead other people so that you feel more comfortable with what you've contrived, is shameful.
Angelina Sugia Your point is well-taken with regards to context. Anyone wanting truth would want all the meaning. Of course Zzzzz is full of contradictions, but when a person is steeped in falsehood like that, rational thinking gets pushed aside. When he says you can't be against Jesus if you don't believe He exists, would be humorous if it wasn't so tragic. Zzzz thinks that if he jumps out of a plane w/o a parachute because he denies the existance of gravity, it will make a difference. In all fairness, though, we can remember what it was like to be lost.
Denise, so if a plain is "a level place", then what the heck is a "mountain"?!?! Or did you miss that?? YOU DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. One says "plain", one says "MOUNTAIN",
Your reply was nothing but sophistry.
Densie, you also lack reading comprehension, but I know that you're completely flustered and desperately searching for a response in that Big Book of Apologetics.
TRY AGAIN. It was NOT "Jesus" father who was in question. It was JOESPH'S FATHER?
Was it "Jacob"?
Or was it "Heli"?
P.S. I wouild have a ton more respect for you if you would just admit the obvious contradiction.
Denise Perrin please address these two obvious contradictions which I have pointed out.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Yes, He was in the mountains. It says he found a 'level' place. If He weren't in the mountains, there would be no need to mention that He found a level place. There are plenty of level places in mountain areas, especially there.
With regards to contradictions, that was a response to your contradictions as pointed out by Angelina Sugia.
WHOA, Denise–REALLY??! Man, that's some impressive circumlocution and evasion! A COMPLETE AND EPIC FAIL! I declare "Victory" in this sorry exchange–you CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, can you?
Either Joseph has TWO fathers or he doesn't!
Your SIN, Denise, is PRIDE. You cannot allow yourself the humiliation of admitting that I AM RIGHT. I have tried to show you–out of pity–how wrongly you have been mislead, and how truly errant the Bible is, but you're too proud to admit the obvious.
The psychological processes and results of this little exchange betwixt us is noteworthy. For it shows how certain "Christian" people can see nothing but the ideological deception that they've been indoctrinated in, and are immune to reality when they don't want–or can't handle–seeing it.
If your "God" existed, he'd be gnashing his teeth and slapping himself in the forehead.
Angelina Sugia If being a "true Christian" means ending up with faulty mental processes such as just demonstrated by Denise there, then I THANK DOG that I renounced my Christianity. Apparently, by your standards, to be a "real Christian". one must surrender the deductive powers of one's own brain? One must deny obvious contradiction? One must blindlyparrot ideology?
It frightened me to death that people like you and Denise are allowed to vote! At least this now rather explains how people such as you vote with the destructive and mendacious Right Wing. You people invent your own "realities".
By the way, the world is FILLED with people who have renounced their Christian brainwashing and found the freedom of conscience and TRUE morality without the hypocrisy and ideological obtuseness of Christianity. I suggest that you research a book titled "Leaving The Fold: Testimonies of former Fundamentalists". Get a copy and educate yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-The-Fold-Testimonies-Fundamentalists/dp/1591022177
Denise Perrin That's right. I do remember what it was like to be lost, rejecting what I didn't like. Excellent points. Only a person who is misled and miserable would try to get others to be miserable also. It helps to justify in their minds what they've made up.
How about you, Angelina? Can you answer the OBVIOUS CONTRADICTIONS?!?! OR ARE YOU STILL "REJECTING WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE"?!
Or are you two birds just going to keep IGNORING THE OBVIOUS TRUTH and keep reinforcing each other's delusions? How ironic and what chutzpah you have to speak of "being lost"?! You're both more "lost" than you can even admit to yourselves!
IT MUST BE MISERABLE TO BE IN SUCH DENIAL AND HAVE NO ANSWERS TO GIVE!
Angelina Sugia That's why it's impossible to get mad, the compassion for them takes over. They don't like the answers so they keep asking the same questions, thinking it's pride because they don't know what security feels like.
Angelina, do you realize that you're speaking in something like 3rd person? Is this what happens when you are psychologically overloaded because you can't answer a simple question that conflicts with your ideology on such a simple and basic level?
And you might want to recognize the FACT that YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN AN ANSWER. Perhaps because you have no answer to the contradictions that exist in your "infallible" Bible?
I can see the smoke coming out of your ears right now…like a Stepford wife…
I'll take it as a tacit admission from both of you that ""God" has failed to enlighten you enough to give a respectable answer to the contradictions which plague the Bible.
"God bless the USA", is the greatest patriotic song since. Very fitting for the current time.
Nick Wright – They don't invoke any fake gods, just the One True God. When you come up with a wildly popular, patriotic song, you can invoke anything you want. When your group of ignorant rabble outnumbers mine, (85% believe in God), you can be as godless as you want. When you peaceably found your own atheistic paradise, (Oh yeah, That would be the USSR, Communist China, North Korea, Cuba, Nazi Germany…..), Never mind. There will never be such a thing.
Nick Wright- No. You are Godless because you don't believe in God. What makes you unpatriotic is that you want to take God away from the rest of society.
Better an "atheist paradise" than a Christian theocracy!!! ANY DAY!!
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz – Look around you. See the Universe? That would be my proof.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Tell that to the 250 million murdered by atheists in the last century. Atheists do not live in peace with others, just as Muslims don't.
Proof of WHAT, exactly, James? The Big Bang? I concur, in that case.
Oh–sorry James, I missed that last goofy comment from you about "250 million murdered by Atheists"–wait, you wouldn't be referring to the Jews and the Holocaust as well in that number would you? After all, the German stormtroopers marched into battle with "Gott mit Uns" (God with Us) on their belt buckles. And Hitler was a CATHOLIC. Stalin was educated as a priest in a seminary.
First of all, I would ask you to verify that number? Sounds like spoonfed pablum to me.
Next, I would ask you to compare that to the millions of innocent people murdered by Christians and ALL RELIGIONS in the name of "God" throughout history–the Crusades? The Inquisition? The pogroms against the Jews? Ho ho, James–your "God" is a bloodthirsty and murderous god, indeed.
Next, I would educate you about political psychopaths who deny God because their political agendas and personal egos make it impossible to tolerate the thought of any higher power than themselves. But it would also be unfair to neglect to mention the many, many leaders who feel "appointed by God" and who use religion as an excuse to murder their countrymen. It seems that when one looks at the record of history, the predominant number of murders and slaughtering came from–you guessed it–religion and religious people.
And guess what, James? Statistical data from just 2009shows that, by far, atheist-leaning nations are MORE PEACEFUL than religious countries! Hey, who knew?! Yup. New Zealand, Sweden, Holland, Denmark. Most of the European non-theist countries, Canada…all lead the top of peaceful countries
Here's a link to the most peaceful on the world "Peace Index" The USA ranks only 88th.
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/#/2011/scor
Ron Goossen Well said. They think they know what God we're talking about, but they're referring to their perception….and whether they know it or not they do have a god they worship.
James A. Pilcher You're right James. Things are becoming worse in the world with more people wanting to seperate themselves from Him, and with we as a nation trying to exclude Him and His Son. Some will say that 'if there is a God, why do people do this and that?", but people aren't doing God's will.
You really need to be sent to your reeducation camp to cure your willful ignorance. While Germans may have been Catholics (=/- 44%) and Protestant (54%) before the war, Hitler and the Nazi regime used and corrupted Christianity, claiming that Christ was an active anti-Semite fighting organized Judaism in his day. They leading religion of Hitler himself was a mix of pseudo scientific BS, corrupted Darwinism, and no-paganism. The vast majority of the Waffen SS followed those beliefs, or whatever else Hitler said he believed that morning. The rolls of membership in all churches in Germany dropped drastically throughout the late 30's through the end of the war. Stalin was an avowed atheist with a burning hatred of the Catholic church in particular, mostly because they expelled him from the Tiflis Theological Seminary in 1899. Stalin killed over a million Priests and Bishops alone. The Crusades AND Inquisition killed less than 2,000,000 from the start of the First Crusade through to the end of the Spanish Inquisition, (which was a secular affair run by, albeit Catholic Monarchs of Aragon and Castile). The Crusades AND inquisition were responses to conquests made by Islam of what had been Christian Kingdom's and ally's of the European powers. Educate yourself or shut up.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz You're questions are being answered. Perhaps your confusion is coming from the amount of threads you have going. Re: Joseph, Heli is Joseph's father-in-law, Mary's father, Jesus' maternal grandfather. Regarding Jesus, earthly genealogy follows Mary, since his Father is God. Do you understand?
James,kudos; a nice bit of factual posting there regarding Hitler (nothing I didn't already know except maybe the irrelevant percentages, thank you), but it still doesn't account for your desperate attempt to link TRUE atheism–a simple "without ("A")" belief" with political tyranny based upon both egotistical delusion and political expediency–which wouldn't have been possible in Hitler OR Stalin's case if the populace hadn't been psychologically "groomed" by the mental frameworking of religion, and especially a patriarchal, virulently (ESPECIALLY in Germany, historically) anti-Semitic religion like Christianity. And btw, James, Christianity ITSELF is largely based upon paganism, but I digress. Hitler even wrote in Mein Kampf: "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God". How would this have worked on anything but a Christian people? And in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, Hitler said: "We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls. . . We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity . . . in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people." Now, WHO do you think Hitler was appealing to, James? Like it or not, the inconvenient truth is that Hitler used Christianity and RELIGION t ascend to power. You wouldn't find an atheist making statements like that–nor would you have atheists buying into such delusions of divine sanction. THAT's the point. And YOU just contradicted yourself about Hitler anyway. HITLER WAS NOT AN ATHEIST.
Regardless of what you choose to believe, James, Christianity made it possible for Hitler to lead the population into accepting the collection and termination of the Jews by simply playing up the already-nascent perception of the Jews as second-class citizens; something insinuated all through the Bible and Christian theology. And it was no accident that–again, NO MATTER WHAT "religion" Hitler may or may not have followed–those soldiers had "GOD WITH US" stamped on their belt buckles–not an "atheist" or "neo-pagan" slogan. And the Catholic League of Voters was largely responsible for Hitler's rise to power.
Stalin too used the framework of religion to dupe a gullible population. Stalin's speech was catechist-styles, using simple phrases and repetitive refrains; he introduced iconography to Russia with his huge icons of himself–literally making himself like a "God". This he learned FROM RELIGION. As I told you before, he murdered priests and suppressed religion AFTER coming to power purely as a means to an end–he knew that the Church would have the power to foment resistance and revolution, and he did away with it–as a psychopathic megalomaniac would, and as ALL have done–because it, and God, represented a threat to his domination of society.
I find it troubling, James, that you want to dispute "numbers" about the millions of deaths from religions and religious wars. You mistakenly, naively attribute the deaths under atheist regimes to Atheism itself, when the truth is that there was no pogrom to kill explicitly-RELIGIOUS people in those nations BESIDE the priests and church leaders. I argue vociferously that NO ONE–or at least very few–WERE KILLED IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM. If you have some compelling information to prove that regular people were rounded up as a part of an EXPLICITLY-ATHEIST pogrom against religious people–then post it or shut up yourself.
I myself posted the examples of the Inquisition (which specifically sought out "heretical" victims), the Crusades (again, explicitly-RELIGIOUS peoples) and the Holocaust (undeniably against Jewish people for the VAST majority). I might also add any number of the religious genocides from 2,000 years ago to the present day. THOSE ARE ALL DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTABLE DEATHS FROM RELIGION!!
Whatchoo got, Willis?
Denise Perrin Denise, I"m sorry; I did a little research myself on this "Heli" character, and–in classic Christian apologetic bullsh*tting manner–the BEST, troubled explanation that apologists came up with was "Uh, well it's a CLEAR contradiction, sooooooo….it MUST have been Mary's father".
(Sound of buzzer…WRONG! Or at least UNSUBSTANTIATED! A simple "guess"–but nonetheless a CLEAR CONTRADICTION.
Still, if you insist on resting on your hands about that one, next please explain to me how the Bible gets the "Creation order" so drastically, scientifically WRONG? How can you invent light first, and the Earth, and THEN and ONLY THEN the stars and sun? Light falls on the Earth because of the sun. When the sun is on the other side of the Earth, NO LIGHT! So where'd it go? Because it would have to be there if God invented it first? But of course, it isn't–because the simple people who wrote the Bible were not scientists, and they DIDN'T KNOW.]
Break a leg, lady.
Denise Perrin Ironic, too that you think things are "becoming worse" because people are "turning away" fro God. Hey Denise–you know when the country started becoming LESS civil? When the Republicans started embracing the Religious Right as a socio-political arm of their party and using cynical "culture war" wedge-issues on gullible, manipulable religious fools! It hasn't been the atheists causing all this discord and ruin–it's been religious idiots!
Why you people even voted in Bush for that disastrous second term! YOu support the Republican Party now–which espouses the FURTHEST THINGS from "Christian ideals" as I understand them? What would Jesus do, Densie? Vote Republican? Cut aid for the Poor? Disenfranchise the children from Education?
You people are so cluelessly hypocritical, it kills me.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Don't really know what you mean by break a leg, but if you've studied the Bible you'd know that "Let there be" means "let it appear" not a notice that it was created.: i.e.: Gen 1:14 Sun moon and stars become signs for seasons, etc. If you think that's when the sun was "created", you are incorrect. That happened back in verses 3,4, and 5.
More sophistry, Denise. More evasions of obvious contradiction. It amazes me, honestly, how you can go on deceiving yourself. The light and darkness were allegedly created on the First day, and only THEN was the sun ans stars created. Honestly. Where or WHAT are you reading from? It's fascinating to listen to you try to rationalize error. You can't have "light and dark" without a SOURCE of light. And THAT was not created until the fourth day.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
THERE WAS "LIGHT" and "DARKNESS" FIRST.
THEN!
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Now, are you going to try to tell me that the "great lights" were fluorescent or something?? (snort, chortle) They are OBVIOUSLY the sun and the moon. On the FOURTH DAY.
YOU LOSE.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz That's incorrect. If you don't understand it, that's ok, because you can just try reading what I wrote again and then read the verses over again. Though this is not what you're basing your disbelief on, the sun was not created on the 4th day.
Denise, it's rude of you at this point to be pissing down my back and telling me that it's just raining. Your willful sophistry and obdurate pride are in evidence for all to see, and I'm finished with you, having easily won this theological battle. I assume that you gave your "best answer", and sorry, honey, but that's not good enough. Maybe you and your fellow Christians can sit around and congratulate yourselves on how you can continue to believe that light can exist without a source, but I demand more of my intelligence than to fixate pathologically on conjuring elaborate excuses for what are plainly errors of Science in a book that was written in the Bronze Age by mere men who were just simply ignorant.
The thought also has occurred tome along the way that, for being "the Truth", and for this alleged "God" supposedly having "revealed" his "Truth" to Humankind–if we're going by your metric, any average huckster who wants to "know God" and who has half a brain would need a college-level course in the sophistry of Apologetics to apparently understand how to reconcile all these obvious contradictions and plain errors and literary foibles? That sounds to me like something that would be required in an Islamic madrassa, honestly.
Why not just admit that this is like the belief in faeries? A great deal of fun, and a preoccupation, but HARDLY "factual"?
In any case, I"m done with you. There are more battles to be won, and I've won this one easily.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz The Spirit of God dwelling in a person is the only thing that can and does open God's Word to them. Don't worry about what you don't comprehend. Come to Him just as you are, and accept His Son as payment for your sins. He'll take care of the rest.
You've spent a week begging people for answers, and thinking you wanted to learn, we've answered you. Now you say you were just arguing for argument's sake. If that was you 'arguing' points, it came off as incoherent ramblings. When someone asks questions about what I believe, I'll answer. But when someone says, "Let's just argue,", that's for children.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz You've spent a week begging people for answers, and thinking you wanted to learn, we've answered you. Now you say you were just arguing for argument's sake. If that was you 'arguing' points, it came off as incoherent ramblings. When someone asks questions about what I believe, I'll answer. But when someone says, "Let's just argue,", that's for children.
I HOPE SHE IS NOT AFRAID TO OFFEND CHINA,VICTOR HUGO OF VENEZUELA WHO LOVES AMERICA SO MUCH,OR HIS FRIENDS IN CUBA.
Truly one of the stupidest comments on this entire blog.
Charlie Borg That's truly one of the dumbest things I've heard any of you utter. What an idiotic comment that only further moves the focal point from the crux of this manufactured, phony story.
How in the hell can a song shun other cultures dumb ass. I
Nick Wright Your part of the different cultures that this song offends? Tough "SHIT" You don't like it or God then get out.
This woman should be fired. Freedom of speech is being infringed upon. And lets not mention that when you move here you are supposed to like where you CHOSE to live. If it offends you to hear "God bless America" maybe you need to go back to the culture you came from. I am a proud citizen of the USA. My ancestors fought for my freedoms, as outlined in the Constitution". Some idiot PC principal needs to step down if she infringes on the freedoms of our students.
Another stupid decision with absolutely no regard for America and OUR citizens who happen to be very proud of OUR country. What the hell should the children sing? Which country does she want to pretend they are from anyway? I know, lets go with North Korea just for shits and giggles. The people that "WE" put in charge of teaching our children really, really need to be vetted a bit more thoroughly. What the hell is she, and those supporting this idiotic decision thinking? Welcome to America, the land of the free.
It's the same here, by trying not to offend people, who come here, they offend the citizens. They tried to take away ANZAC DAY because other cultures might find it offensive. Fuck em it's a day of remembrance for us not them. Our countries have become multi cultural fair enough but what right does anyone have to push their beliefs onto our kids, something we have grown up with. I respect all religions but I don't push it down someone's throat n I expect no less from anyone else. What does she want kids to say? Allah bless the United States!!! That'll go down a treat hey lol
Well said, D! It's ridiculous and I am sooo fed up with this shit. I may become an activist against these morons that are running/ruining what is left of our country. Here is another example of how stupidly this country is run: A friend of mine who gets food assistance, but is still without a residence to call home, recently got a grant & loan to start school full time, trying to better her life and get off the system's help. Good thing, right? Well, when she went to renew her food card they denied her because she is now a full time student!!!!! WTF???? They told her, "Yes, it isn't really fair but its the rules." WHAT???? How the hell is she supposed to eat for the next year while she is in school????? Now if she was an immigrant or illegal alien it would be a totally different story. It just blows my mind that this country gives more to people from other countries than our own. I will figure this out some day but till then I guess I will be saying "Allah bless these here United States"… :-/ Fucktards, they are everywhere!
If I were a parent of one of these kids, my kid would perform this song, or nothing at all.
If I were a parent of one of these kids, my kid would perform this song, or nothing at all.
She is FREE TO LEAVE! So are all those —whom our country offends!
Its not the country that offends, its the praising of a supernatural deity that most likely does not exist.
Nick Wright,why are you so intolerant? Why must you shove your unbelief on us?
Nick Wright what actually bothers you on this issue is you know God exists. You (and this Principal) wouldn't have a problem with kids singing about Santa Claus. If you thought God was also imaginary, you wouldn't be so angry about it.
Nick Wrong
Just nip it in the bud. Man up and quit acting as if your wittle feelings are hurt. You dont offend anyone in the slightest, just annoy with your constant whining. Devote your energies elsewhere.
More self-congratulatory whining from Joel.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Rather than focus on the God you're afraid to admit exists, why don't you worry about the freedoms that are being taken away here….or do you only want the freedoms you approve of?
There are no "freedoms" being taken away here. You are still free to worship as you please in the country. Until that right is taken away, you have absolutely NO CAUSE to complain.
And you should talk–you can't even admit the possibility that "God" could NOT exist. Even when there's absolutely no proof or evidence for his alleged "existence". AGain, I'll say the same thing to you that I've said elsewhere–PROVE to me that he exists, and I'll worship him.
She is FREE TO LEAVE! So are all those —whom our country offends!
what a friggin Idiot where the Hell is she from? Obama has been wanting GOD out of AMERICA I wonder why that is? I know why he wants Islam in here well screw That he has screwed up on several occasions when he was trying to con-vince people he was christian lol lol what a bunch of crap that is too Our country better wake up and wake up fast!
"Obama has been wanting GOD out of AMERICA"–that must be why he says that stupid phrase "God Bless America" at the end of every speech. Got spoon-fed talking points? much? Sheeesh.
Cripes–talk about "wake up fast"?! Take your own advice, Mike.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz,ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Perhaps you don't recall Obama removing God from the Declaration of Independence. http://www.iviewtube.com/v/168451/obama-removes-creator-god-quoting-declaration-of-independence
…and why he always quotes the Declaration of Independence as saying "endowed with certain inalienable rights", leaving out "by their Creator". He's done that seven times. Then again, he is the same guy who thinks we have 57 states, so…
Tod Thompson — Honestly–are you guys THAT HARD UP to have your beliefs validated? Is your faith THAT fragile? Obama leaves out that WHOLLY UNNECESSARY phrase because it has NOTHING to do with the context of which he is speaking. Boy, talk about that incessant Christian Persecution Complex".
The truth is that when you're talking about "inalienable rights", it doesn't make a goddamned difference WHERE they came from or WHO you think "endowed" them to you. As a nonbeliever, I certainly don't think any UNPROVEN supernatural deity "endowed" ME with them. But I guess to insecure, paranoid people who are desperate to have their tenuously-held beliefs validated need that kind of banal "reassurance"?
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Odd that someone would want salvation not to exist, but you're confusing 'unproven', with disbelief. You not believing in God's provision of salvation through Jesus will not be a sufficient excuse when your time comes.
Denise, no, I"m not confusing anything at all. There is no "proof" whatsoever for God, nor "Jesus" beyond the fervent desire of millions of indoctrinated people to believe whast they are afraid to question–I KNOW, I was raised and lived as a Christian for some 30+ years. Ten years of exhaustive research and the fearless questioning o what I was raised to believe has finally freed me from the delusion under which you suffer.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Again, you not believing doesn't make it less true. You don't need to tell anyone you don't believe in God's salvation. We can read your disdain and anger in your numerous posts.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Again, you not believing doesn't make it less true. You don't need to tell anyone you don't believe in God's salvation. We can read your disdain and anger in your numerous posts.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Again, you not believing doesn't make it less true. You don't need to tell anyone you don't believe in God's salvation. We can read your disdain and anger in your numerous posts.
Denise, and you believing doesn't make it any MORE true! Can we agree on that simple point? No anger here–just a firm belief in my principles. And a firm desire to have someone from Religion give me a good argument for why they choose to believe in something unproven and fashion a life philosophy around that?
ZZZZZ do your home work dip shit
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz
I absolutely agree with your first sentence. Anyone's belief or disbelief has no bearing on who God is. If I don't believe His Word, it will still come about. If I reject Him, it doesn't make Him any less God. He's given you the free will to spend your life on earth hoping that what He says isn't true. If you want to place your faith in what you've concocted, you have that freedom. He didn't create us robots, but has provided a Substitution so that if we want to come to Him, we are able.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz
I absolutely agree with your first sentence. Anyone's belief or disbelief has no bearing on who God is. If I don't believe His Word, it will still come about. If I reject Him, it doesn't make Him any less God. He's given you the free will to spend your life on earth hoping that what He says isn't true. If you want to place your faith in what you've concocted, you have that freedom. He didn't create us robots, but has provided a Substitution so that if we want to come to Him, we are able.
Pure spoon-fed dogma, nothing more, Denise. You're not even mentally prepared to admit the possibility that there might be no "God". That's the number one difference between you and I. I once believed, I questioned, I imagined, I researched and asked and studied and compared and used this brain that I was born with to the best of my ability, and I found NO EVIDENCE whatsoever for this "God" as I was told existed. You, apparently, are more comfortable living in a comforting illusion? Some of us lack the courage of the Truth.
you are a piece of work lol you dont remeber him saying America is no longer a country under God wasnt long national anthen at nascar right where he sat they sang one nation under Isalam and god so preach it to somebody else like jeremiah wright a bird of a feather the panthers are all muslims wake up
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Again, you're speaking about things you don't know. You don't know my background and my search. When you don't want it to be, you make something up to fit your thoughts, or just reject others beliefs, just like this principal.
even PINK FLOYD the BAND is five notches ahead of you in knowing what they are talking about do your dam home work
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz you think saying GOD BLESS AMERICA is stupid also ??? my my my
Zizzer Zazzer Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Your as mad as your pic and name suggests. You are a bitter person. What ever happened to u in your past must have made you change course which is fine. But your arguments may sway only a few minds, but good luck in trying to change the world with all the vitriol, intolerance and trash talking that you can muster for whatever it's worth. I'm sure you would welcome a form of government that would outlaw Christianity and religion all together as it is in China, because heaven knows that with a hint of hate in your words, that is what your heart desires — a total and complete abolishment of what you hate and despise. I know your going to come back with a smart ass reply as usual, so save it, you already defined who you are with your early posts and you only serve to waste energy speaking to the wall.
Mike Burdett–I'M a "piece of work"?! ha ha. And this, from a guy whose comment I had to read three times to decipher what the hell you were trying to say? DId you ever hear of "punctuation" or capital letters?!
And WHAT are you talking about some Nascar race where they sang one nation under Islam?!?! Wait-let me guess–Glenn Beck, right? Cripes-talk about GULLIBLE!! I"m done with you.
Joel Rivera No, Joel; I"m not really "mad", just annoyed at the sheer ignorance and myopia that I see on this site. I honestly feel like I've landed on some other planet or something reading some of these comments. I see a huge throng of misinformed, frightened people who have been led by their fear into accepting distorted propositions which cloud an individual's ability to properly reason. I see this almost pathological hatred of our president with the same old tired spoonfed slogans and vulgarisms that have no basis in fact; only in propaganda value, proffered by the SAME people who have been manipulating people like you for years by tying their destructive agenda to your latent prejudices and theologically-based fears and insecurities.
And I see people whose persecution complexes have been carefully cultivated and stoked into this smokescreen which they can't see past to the truth. This ridiculous charge of Obama somehow enabling this silly decision by this ONE misguided individual ought to alert ANY rational human being that there is some kind of mass delusion going on. Additionally, this erroneous belief that Christianity is somehow "under attack" is the same as the NRA's laughable charge that gun rights are under attack when we have the most permissible gun laws in the history of America since the Old West. You and the other paranoiacs here either truly DON'T know (frightening, but predictable perhaps?) the sheer number of ways that Christian fundamentalists and so-called "Dominionists" are pushing religion into the public sphere in a way which is engendering the pushback from people like me. Frankly, we're sick of you pushing your "God" and your hypocritical, self-righteous judgment on we who don't believe, or who USED to believe and have found GOOD REASONS NOT TO believe.
I think that people like ME threaten people like YOU with the sheer possibility that you may be wrong. Some people need to feel like they have some "celestial parent" watching over them–but that's just a reflection of their immature emotional development now, isn't it? Those of us who don't feel that need are a little tired of the kids telling us how wrong we are to not place a belief in things that they CAN NOT PROVE.
Joel Rivera Absolutely! Zzzzz can't see where freedom came from in this co this country, but he's willingly letting it go. It makes sense though, since he chooses bondage to sin rather than freedom through God.
Denise, you're getting increasingly ideological and "preachy" in your responses–whatsamatta, run out of a convincing argument? I don't know where in the world you read that I don't "know where freedom came from" or that I'm "willing to let it go". If anything, I'm holding a line against people like YOU who would happily take our freedom away in order to impose your religious restrictions and strictures against those who do not believe as you do. You're so deep in your own myopia that you can't even see it.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Eh hem. It's my freedom this principal is attmepting to take away Zzzzzz so you shouldn't be so angry. But I don't have to rant because my freedom can't be restricted and isn't expressed by name calling on message boards.
Zizzer Zazzer Zzzzzzzzzz
Yup, you're a bitter person, and typical too. Its funny how you speak like a self proclaimed authority on the subject of Christianity and government. You reiterate it time and again with your predictable vapid rants. You have nothing to offer, you made your case, now move on before your head explodes.
Denise, explain exactly how your "freedom" is being "taken away". Frankly, you sound like a trained parrot, reciting verbatim the lines that your puppet masters would have you believe. Make sure you donate generously to their cause, now. Make sure you help them "protect your freedoms". (sitting here, shaking head in incredulous disbelief)
Joel Rivera not bitter, just relentlessly confident of my knowledge. I cannot and will not be swayed nor influenced by arguments based upon either fear or "faith". And yes, I AM a bit of an expert on Christianity. I walked the walk, talked the talk, was a churchgoing Christian and a loud advocate of it.
It's funny how this happened though–I went searching for all the information I could find in order to justify and defend my faith–and lo and behold, what I read and learned showed me the REAL truth-that Christianity is a myth, and a means to control people through guilt and fear. Now, admittedly, no one likes to think of themselves as being manipulated and controlled by a phony ideology, but that's the truth, Joel. I challenge you to read even ONE Atheist's book and consider that point of view, and NOT come away with a hunger to know more.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Your not making coherent points anymore. Your vague refernces are ramblings. A lot of typing, but saying nothing.
Gee, I thought that about your posts several days ago, Denise. Go feed your birds.
Ah, you're still trying to dictate what people should be doing, Anyone who disagrees with you should go away. Perhaps you should look into a public shool principal's position. Problem is, God won't go away, and that's understandably frustrating for you. You should try and find some enjoyment in this life on earth while it lasts. You're so angry.
True, Denise Perrin. The small portion of the population who loudly call "Foul" anytime someone mentions God, are actually the ones doing the very things they say they're against. They think we try to stifle them, but they basically say that if you believe in God, don't talk about it. Most of this nation believes in God. People like this Zizzer Zazzer Zuzzz tell us THEIR version of what WE think, but they don't even know because they're so busy going on, contradicting themselves. You can tell when someone has cut God out of their life, even if they don't tell you.
Denise Perrin That's what dictators do. They remove God and tell you not to talk about Him.
Yes indeed, spoken like a true dictator Zuzer! Just remove God and create a place where you don't have to hear His name, right? Nope, not in my country!
Denise, once again you're factually off base. If I had a dime for every Bible thumper on this site who commented "…then MOVE!" I'd be a rich man. I hope you don't go away. I'm still waiting for you to "prove" this alleged "God" to me? And I think that the problem with people like you is that you're afraid that "God" already HAS gone away–away from America, away from Humanity. For all your bluster about him, you still can't PROVE his existence, and you still can't understand why he doesn't show up and kick people like mine's butt when I directly challenge him here and now to do so? Am I skeered? Not at all. Ponder that…
Angelina Sugia Guess, what, Angelina? It's MY COUNTRY too! And the Constitution is set up to value my disbelief just as much as it values YOUR belief. The funny thing is, I'm fighting for YOUR religious freedom by advocating a neutral stance against religion—but of course, you haven't been educated on how that works. It's a shame, really, because you're arguing against your own interests.
ZZZZZ you say you believed once .I dont know which branch of Christianity you followed . but what happened that was so awfull to turn you agianst God ??
Mike, in the 80s I started writing letters against Atheists who were rising up against Ronald Reagan's cozy relationship with the Religious Right. As a "believer", I felt that, hey, right on! These people were on my side, bringing God into the public sphere. Some guy made a comment about Christianity all being a big myth and boy, that got my dander up. I resolved to slay the nonbelievers with my intellect and rhetoric AFTER I had gone on an exhaustive quest to find and document the actual, historical "history" of both Jesus and Christianity.
But I would go one further. I reasoned that, if Christianity were the "One Truth", then it would stand up and conquer any atheist nonsense that I could possibly find. So I resolved NOT ONLY to read Christian validations of God–things like Strobel's "Case for Christ", but also some atheist primers. I just couldn't wait to demolish that nonbeliever crap.
Well, after a few dozen books and a few years later, I started realizing that I couldn't stop my logical mind, my reason, from realizing that the Atheists just plain made a better case. All religion is based upon the willingness to believe in, and buy into, several self-denigrating, self-deprecatory propositions that are both harmful and insidiously manipulative to your mind. They require you to believe that you are inherently weak, evil, a sinner–and that (conveniently, I might add) "WE'VE GOT THE CURE FOR THAT!". Yet there is NO proof for God, nor Jesus, no matter what you might've been told. If there WAS, why would you need "faith"? It would just be a documentable, cross-referencable fact, right?
Yet if you REALLY get into it, there is NO contemporary citation of "Jesus" ANYWHERE from over 30 writers who would have lived at his time. And when you study the Bible, it's so full of contradictions, hypocrisies, and scientific error that it beggars the rational mind to believe that intelligent people could actually believe it without questioning whether they're being bamboozled for the sake of an institution that has ALREADY been proven so corrupt, so power hungry, that it SURELY qualifies as a den of "Satan" if you will..so, if they're the ones claiming there is a "God"< and yet they have a purely vested interest in promoting that, how can you seriously believe what they have said? Don't we get ALL our information about religion from….religious texts?
Then when I read of how bloodstained and corrupt, sadistic and cruel the Church was, I started to realize that if God were the CEO of a corporation which acted so vilely in his name, he would have amoral imperative to correct this. We would expect a mere MAN to do that, would we not? I guess I demand more from anything that I would call a "God", Mike, than an unproven deity for whom I see no evidence beyond the insistence of men and an institution which I would call genuinely "evil".
I mean, there are a lot–a LOT—of corollary reasons that are all based in logic as well, but that's a part of it.
Mike Burdette By the way, Mike–I didn't "turn against God". I SINCERELY don't believe that "God" exists. AT ALL.
you never said which church you belonged to when you say the " Church " not all are alike they all have some familiarities but also have differances in some beliefs and traditions and so on .there are some men in some religions that have indeed used it for thier own gain and some has been evil.
you never said which church you belonged to when you say the " Church " not all are alike they all have some familiarities but also have differances in some beliefs and traditions and so on .there are some men in some religions that have indeed used it for thier own gain and some has been evil.
Mike, I was a Roman Catholic–but it doesn't really matter; the Christianity aspect of it is all the same, and I'm honestly not "mad" at "God". I SINCERELY believe that "God" is an invention of the Church–EVERY church, EVERY religion, Islam included, which have everything to gain by controlling people through fear and guilt. And when these old men try to tell us how to live our lives when they have no proof and their actions certainly don't reflect any "Godliness", I take exception to that. That's what gets me so fired-up. I wish that the Church would stop trying to be so political and stop trying to force people to believe what they are this far failing to convince people to do and be, i.e., using contraception, their stance on Gays, (I'm not gay, but have a gay niece) etc. If God is an invention–as I TRULY believe–then these are just pushy old mafioso's trying to scare people into submitting to their hypocritical pronouncements. THAT should, and would tick anyone off.
And I KNOW there are some genuinely good people out there, and honest churches. But boy, the LEADERS and most prominent ones–especially those "Prosperity Gospel" ones like Joel Olsteen's that worship mammon–have a long way to go to even be right with me, much less "God".
Fire the ignorant woman. She obviously has no respect for our American culture. No one has arrived here by force. No one has been forced to stay here. Maybe if she weren't so ingrained with the idiocy that is 'political correctness' she could teach and lead children to respect the country that allows them to become whatever they want to be. The woman (term used very loosely here) has no business in the education system.
Then all that are offended should take their religion and their bags and go back to their own countr(ies) including this woman!!! If she was born here, then she may go want to back to wherever her ancestors came from where she won't have to offend anyone!
Where are the parents to this school? I would be all over this school and it they didn't do something I would take my children out. She is telling them what they can believe in and not believe in. Looks like COMMUNISM. You know this really isn't about America this is about GOD. If she knew anything about GOD she wouldn't be doing this. They are trying to take GOD out of America. But it's o.k. for them (New York) to let these other so called cultures to take a building and worship their so-called god in right down from where 911 happen. GOD was in this country long before any of us have been here. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.
Fire the ignorant woman. She obviously has no respect for our American culture. No one has arrived here by force. No one has been forced to stay here. Maybe if she weren't so ingrained with the idiocy that is 'political correctness' she could teach and lead children to respect the country that allows them to become whatever they want to be. The woman (term used very loosely here) has no business in the education system.
We should all just stay inside and not interact with anyone for the rest of our lives, because if we go out into the world and interact we people we are sure to offend somebody. This whole "I have a right not to be offended" mentality is just killing us. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees that. Pretty soon nothing that stirs the heart, mind of spirit of man (and yes, I include women in that) will be allowed at all. We're going to be living in a pretty bland society if we don't stop with the political correctness.
We should all just stay inside and not interact with anyone for the rest of our lives, because if we go out into the world and interact we people we are sure to offend somebody. This whole "I have a right not to be offended" mentality is just killing us. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees that. Pretty soon nothing that stirs the heart, mind of spirit of man (and yes, I include women in that) will be allowed at all. We're going to be living in a pretty bland society if we don't stop with the political correctness.
What about the parents that are offended by the children not knowing or being able to sing God Bless America, if she is offended by this song or afraid of offending someone else then move out of America, we don't want you here….
I am so sick of being offended by people like her! why is it ok for them to be offended an it's wrong for all who love our country to be offended? it's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH! send her over to those countrys and see just how fast she likes it!
You just nailed it on the head. Seems that we're being offended in favor of not offending other cultures when really this is our "country" and our values. If people have a problem with that, they should tough it out, bite their lip, cover their eyes or ears, or just simply leave the country.
Maybe parents should pulll their kids out of that school and there would be no funds to pay that principal and her co-hort! They don't like the song go get them freedom elsewhere!
Imagine that, another black trying to change the USA. Go back to Kenya and take Obama with you. If you don't like the USA than by all means LEAVE. I could give a good GOD damn about other cultures in our country and bending laws and changing school systems to accomadate them. Speak English, follow our laws and traditions or get the F out!
Amen Craig. Oh crap I maight have offended someone with that. If I did they can read your post and follow your directions with my blessing.
I agree with you craig, for once your mother in law won't pick on you–love ya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E
I'm offended. What happened to freedom of speech? The USA is our culture.
I'm sure if it were a song about Obama, the children would be forced to learn it and sing it often.
I'm sure if it were a song about Obama, the children would be forced to learn it and sing it often.
Truly awesome! Way to go! We ought to ban this arrogant, conceited phrase outright. To think that "God" "blesses" this country with its endemic racism, tribal politics, Conservative assholes and economic hardship tha we have? Truly, anyone uttering this phrase ought to be examined for mental illness.
I agree with this move. Its not unpatriotic to not believe in a god. I'm sure there's a more appropriate song that is not religious and doesn't praise a mythical deity that may or may not exist.
How sick you are
Why? because I am a person who requires evidence over fairy tales? kiss my @ss you old hag.
Nick Wright he point is that only people in God are allowed to be offended nowadays. Name-calling…really?
Nick Wright The point is that only people in God are allowed to be offended nowadays. Name-calling…really?
Name calling – the last refuge of a simple mind.
"mythical deity that may or may not exist" – now that is profound!
Linda, surely you are talking about how Sue Sisk Pope called me sick, right?
Nick Wright
Hahahaha "a mythical deity that may or may not exist" – now that is profound!
She didn't call you a name, she made an accurate diagnosis.
Hating a song that extolls the liberty, freedom and call to sacrifice for this great country, just because it entreats God to bless those ideals, IS. NOT. RATIONAL. and can't be good for your health imo.
Nick Wrong
Kiss your own ass. You know how you like it kissed now get to kissing it like you know best. You are truely a sick puppy if you can tell people to kiss your ass. Im sure Coward Aubrey would do the deed for you only because he's a perve.
Linda Stoehr
One way he can gather evidence is killing himself and seeing for himself what eternity looks like. Once he finds his answers, the only drawback is that we will never know what he thinks.
Joel, you suggesting I kill myself. Very classy and christian of you. You are a model christian, just like that jesus dude in the bible. Your parents must be very proud.
You need to hurry or you will be late for the gay pride parade you freak. Hide behind a picture like that and talk trash. I bet you wear pink slippers and purple tights. Your penis never fully developed so you have to be a key-board warrior. Blow it out your-ass.tinkerbell.
That's my 11 month old daughter in the picture @sshole. I'm not hiding behind anything. You sound like you are angry Kelly. What are you suppressing deep down inside? Do you have feelings for a man that you can't bear to face? Do you dream of hairy nuts teabagged across your face? It's ok Kelly. You don't have to fight it. Once you come to terms with your true self Kelly, you will feel much better. And the best part is, if you decide to go all the way and have a sex change, you won't even need to change your name, Kelly.
WOW, I"m embarrassed to live in the same state as the potty-mouth, homophobic, bigoted Kelly Henderson!
People wanted God out of public schools and looking around, He's obviously left. Funny how apparently those who believe in God are "unoffendable" Bad decision.
People wanted God out of public schools and looking around, He's obviously left. Funny how apparently those who believe in God are "unoffendable" Bad decision.
Some of those other cultures she is so afraid of offending would execute her for not singing their anthems.
Some of those other cultures she is so afraid of offending would execute her for not singing their anthems.
I just vomited! How does someone like her become a principal? It's the ignorance and stupidity that she is spurting that is so offensive! This woman is in desperate need of a psychiatrist…and she teaches our children? I'm horrified!
Steph, the same way someone with her thinking becomes President.
I just vomited! How does someone like her become a principal? It's the ignorance and stupidity that she is spurting that is so offensive! This woman is in desperate need of a psychiatrist…and she teaches our children? I'm horrified!
I'm just apalled…..could u go to any other country and see this? Freedom of speech and expression….if other cultures are offended then they just are. Im offended on a daily basis at my daughters High school since the only time you'll hear Gods name is when its taken in vain…they have a full time police officer to keep them from killing each other but….let's not sing about God.
What country are we in? Really sad!!!!
Soooo true, so sad…
How disappointing for the kids, and how troubling that New Yorkers, are paying her salary,,,,she needs to go
The Absolute Majority of Jewish Americans are United in Voting for President Obama and we are also united in Our complete Rejection of the Immoral Christian Right, Republican Politics and the OUTRAGEOUS LIES that the CUFI site Members spread. The CUFI site has Low Life Racist and Anti Semites on their Site Daily and We Are again UNITED as THE JEWISH MAJORITY against this UNPATRIOTIC site and it's Members.
Los Angeles Times Reports July 28, 2012
A Gallup tracking poll released Friday, on the eve of Romney's arrival in Israel, showed that 68% of Jewish voters favored Obama, compared with the 78% exit polls showed he received in 2008. Romney was favored by 25%.
THIS IS WHY WE AS JEWS SUPPORT ONLY PRESIDENT OBAMA..
“Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided,” Barack Obama’s Public statement to AIPAC as to the Capital of the Jewish State of Israel….
Funding for Israel’s security has gone up every year under President Obama. His latest budget proposes a record-high $3.1 billion in security assistance, helping Israel maintain its qualitative military edge in the region. Rosen of the Jewish Congressional Caucus praised the president’s record.
“America’s never been as supportive to the state of Israel” than since Obama took office, he said……
While past presidents since Harry Truman have rallied to the Israeli cause, none has provided greater material support than President Obama. Within weeks of taking office, Obama ordered the provision to Israel of more than 50 advanced “bunker buster” bombs that would be necessary were military action necessary against Iran’s nuclear program. In providing the bunker busters to Israel, President Obama reversed the decision taken by his predecessor, George W. Bush.
Obama more than doubled American funding for the Israeli Missile defense system known as David’s Sling—in the last year of President Bush’s term, the U.S. committed $52 million to the program; this year, that number rose to $110 million.
And only under this president’s watch has another important air-defense system, called Iron Dome, received funding. President Obama’s $205 million commitment jump-started Iron Dome in 2011, and his Administration has promised that hundreds of millions more U.S. dollars are on their way to assist with this vital defense system. These and other Obama-backed defense measures protect Israeli citizens from the threats they face every day -– threats from Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists, and from the government or Iran itself.
FYI.. Also on Jul 27, 2012 President Obama gave $70 million more in military aid to Israel, just as Republican opponent Mitt Romney prepared to visit the nation.
The money was to help Israel speed up production of a missile-defense system known as Iron Dome.
"We are standing by our friends in Israel when it comes to these kinds of attacks," Obama said in the Oval Office .
The president spoke before signing the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation that he said "underscores our unshakable commitment to Israel's security."
Romney has criticized Obama's commitment to Israel….. Really?…. We the Jewish People Know the Truth!
Source: Jewish Times, HaAretz News and Jewish Democratic Council
Sorry You Christians have to come up with a New Lie on President Obama!
The Absolute Majority of Jewish Americans are United in Voting for President Obama and we are also united in Our complete Rejection of the Immoral Christian Right, Republican Politics and the OUTRAGEOUS LIES that the CUFI site Members spread. The CUFI site has Low Life Racist and Anti Semites on their Site Daily and We Are again UNITED as THE JEWISH MAJORITY against this UNPATRIOTIC site and it's Members.
Los Angeles Times Reports July 28, 2012
A Gallup tracking poll released Friday, on the eve of Romney's arrival in Israel, showed that 68% of Jewish voters favored Obama, compared with the 78% exit polls showed he received in 2008. Romney was favored by 25%.
THIS IS WHY WE AS JEWS SUPPORT ONLY PRESIDENT OBAMA..
“Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided,” Barack Obama’s Public statement to AIPAC as to the Capital of the Jewish State of Israel….
Funding for Israel’s security has gone up every year under President Obama. His latest budget proposes a record-high $3.1 billion in security assistance, helping Israel maintain its qualitative military edge in the region. Rosen of the Jewish Congressional Caucus praised the president’s record.
“America’s never been as supportive to the state of Israel” than since Obama took office, he said……
While past presidents since Harry Truman have rallied to the Israeli cause, none has provided greater material support than President Obama. Within weeks of taking office, Obama ordered the provision to Israel of more than 50 advanced “bunker buster” bombs that would be necessary were military action necessary against Iran’s nuclear program. In providing the bunker busters to Israel, President Obama reversed the decision taken by his predecessor, George W. Bush.
Obama more than doubled American funding for the Israeli Missile defense system known as David’s Sling—in the last year of President Bush’s term, the U.S. committed $52 million to the program; this year, that number rose to $110 million.
And only under this president’s watch has another important air-defense system, called Iron Dome, received funding. President Obama’s $205 million commitment jump-started Iron Dome in 2011, and his Administration has promised that hundreds of millions more U.S. dollars are on their way to assist with this vital defense system. These and other Obama-backed defense measures protect Israeli citizens from the threats they face every day -– threats from Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists, and from the government or Iran itself.
FYI.. Also on Jul 27, 2012 President Obama gave $70 million more in military aid to Israel, just as Republican opponent Mitt Romney prepared to visit the nation.
The money was to help Israel speed up production of a missile-defense system known as Iron Dome.
"We are standing by our friends in Israel when it comes to these kinds of attacks," Obama said in the Oval Office .
The president spoke before signing the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation that he said "underscores our unshakable commitment to Israel's security."
Romney has criticized Obama's commitment to Israel….. Really?…. We the Jewish People Know the Truth!
Source: Jewish Times, HaAretz News and Jewish Democratic Council
Sorry You Christians have to come up with a New Lie on President Obama!
seriously—–THIS IS AMERICA—–OUR COUNTRY—–WE DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE OUR BELIEFS AND OUR WAY OF LIVE, in fear of offending other cultures. IT IS OUR COUNTRY—-THEY CAME FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY—-if they don't like it they can leave and take all the "officials" who SEEM HELL BENT ON RUINING OUR GREAT COUNTY MORE AND MORE EVERYDAY. I will never care if I offend someone by saying I BELIEVE IN GOD, MERRY CHRISTMAS, OR IF I BUY A BLUE POWER RANGER, because it has offended another culture (that one was way over STUPID). This incident is just another reason why we DO NOT NEED THE BOARD OF EDUCATION—–WE NEED OUR AMERICA BACK—we do not need our children being taught by these kind of people who have such NEGATIVE feelings against AMERICA. People have to wake up and really figure out what kind of an education you want for your children, and try and change the way things are in schools. It is our only hope, for our young citizens.Get involved, know what they are teaching and saying. I would really like to see video streaming of the classes. (omg I am being big brother), but in a good way. Too many times we have seen online the really bad things that happen when the teacher voice their own political or religious beliefs. The TRUE AMERICANS need to unite and make our COUNTRY great again.
Wow she needs to see the world with out or care for freedom yes our county has made mistake but we believe in a prefect god and and a prefect America its called lofty goals peace
Define "true Americans"?!
We all came from other countries, that is how the united states of America was founded. I say united states because America is the continent and we the USA are just a country in it. This is the dumbest post ever.
Kyle Ainsworth —-i guess we will never agree on some issues, but everyone has the right to their own beliefs,(at least for now—who knows what 2013 will bring!!!!!—–
Bravo! Bravo! Lynne, My sediments exactly, I stand with you!
See what happens when you get to open minded? Your brains fall out.
I don't have the words……Did our country relocate and nobody told me?
Naw, the country is still here, its just that people relocated their patriotism or lost it.
Screw her and her idea…her and moochelle need to leave!
I'm not American. But if I was, I'd be pushing for this principal to be banned for offending every GOD-fearing American (which, I believe, is the majority of Americans)!
she looks to young to even understand the ramifications of her bad decision making. I suggest continued education for our little school administrator
, asking people not to exercise or express traditional practices from our upbringing is offending our culture you knit wit, co-existence begins with acceptance not alleviation…and in case you haven't figured it out yet…you can't please everyone. So pick wisely who you choose to cater your convictions to.
If the dept of education is supporting her, then it looks like they need a clean sweep of the entire school board.
It is the students graduation… if the graduating class wants to sing God Bless the USA or God Bless America… then they should be able too! No American Child should be made ashamed of what this country was built on or stands for! God Bless the USA!
Tina Giufre The seperation of chuch and state was to keep the state out of the church, not church out of the state.
“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” — Keyser Söze.
Yes, a great movie
“The greatest trick Beldar Conehead ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” — INS Deputy Commissioner Gorman Seedling
Fire this principal and then stick her on a boat….
Do the same for the entire department of education who supported her…..fire them all…
Culture? The US Constitution of America culture. The very foundation of this country. FIRE them all is right!!
Culture? The US Constitution of America culture. The very foundation of this country. FIRE them all is right!!
Bollocks. It doesn't offend 95% of people in the US. IF you are offended, leave the country. That is the whole problem with banning school prayer. 91% of Americans believe in God, so do the 91% have to always conform to the wishes of the 9% who don't.
Bollocks, back, Tim. The country is a melting pot of cultures and ideologies. No single one should hold sway or dominance. If YOU are offended, tough cookies. But don't leave the country, because intolerant bigots also make the country interesting.
Yes Zizzer, we have a diverse group of people from many different races, religious and cultural backgrounds who love America and standby it, and reject any sentiment that goes against it. We also have a very diverse group of people from athiest to believers who tolerate open expressions of faith, because that it what this country is, a nation of believers. That is what America is all about, if you don't like it, leave. Seriously.
If you don't like the United States and live here, you must learn to respect and tolerate expressions of patriotism. This women acted unpatriotically and although I believe it is her right to act in such a manner, she does not have a right to impose her unpatriotic views on others, especially in a public forum. If she wants to go through the streets and speak through a loud speaker about the evils of this country (on her own time), no problem – but not in a professional setting. It is just plain wrong.
Oh sorry, but I MUST correct this error, Tim, for sake of the facts and the Truth. Actually, in survey after survey, the largest growing group of people regarding belief systems is those who claim "unaffiliated" as far as their belief system. And it also shows Catholics losing most adherents, and that Protestants are deeply fractious and divided over dogma and "Truth". See here: http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
THIS link also documents the rise of Atheism in youth today: http://news.yahoo.com/rise-atheism-america-110700315.html
How about this, Tim. We'll continue to be on opposite sides of the fence, and recognize each other's right to believe whatever they want. But when it comes to forcing children to sway one way or the other regarding religion in public institutions and rituals, how about we draw the line there? How about we keep our beliefs in our homes and hearts where they belong?
If your "side" would agree to that much, we'd all get along just fine! Or, you can leave…
Not sure where you are from, but in the US we have freedoms, including freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly. Because we have the right to express oneself as one see's fit, it really isn't practical for one groups opinion to win out over another. That is why it is necessary to be tolerant of others opinions, even those we disagree with. For example, I might be an Episcopal and you might be a Catholic, I don't believe in a pope but you do? It doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that I respect your right to an opinion. How does banning a song in a school, a conventional tune or conventional sentiment show respect for the opinion of a large majority of Americans? The intolerance is that of the Principal and intolerance is not the American way. When a minority of people prevents the majority from voicing their opinion, that is by defin
ition repression. If you think the minority should rule the majority, then perhaps you should consider living under marxism, where people lack the freedoms to voice their opinion and dissent is repressed. I will say it again, this women had no right to ban that song from being sung. You are wrong.
I might also ad that she is public servant and her salary is paid by the taxpayers. The taxpayer has a right to have his or her opinion heard and not have that taken away by a tyrant or a person who has exceeded his or her authority. The British tried this in the US, they thought they could tax Americans, but not give Americans a say in matters of governement. Well, we didn't tolerate that, nor should the parents and students who go to this school.
I might also ad that she is public servant and her salary is paid by the taxpayers. The taxpayer has a right to have his or her opinion heard and not have that taken away by a tyrant or a person who has exceeded his or her authority. The British tried this in the US, they thought they could tax Americans, but not give Americans a say in matters of governement. Well, we didn't tolerate that, nor should the parents and students who go to this school.
I might also ad that she is public servant and her salary is paid by the taxpayers. The taxpayer has a right to have his or her opinion heard and not have that taken away by a tyrant or a person who has exceeded his or her authority. The British tried this in the US, they thought they could tax Americans, but not give Americans a say in matters of governement. Well, we didn't tolerate that, nor should the parents and students who go to this school.
Oh, I'm a North Carolinian, and I know that we also have a thing called "PUBLIC" schools–which are, by their very definition, required to be SECULAR. Though this plainly biased story misleadingly called this song "patriotic", it is in fact "religious" and would be imposing a religious belief on possibly nonbelievers in the audience and classes.
The principal made the correct decision on that basis alone. There is nothing "intolerant" about it at all. It is a correct–albeit, unpopular–decision. And as I understood it, America is supposed to be about valuing ALL opinions-not JUST that of the majority? If we gave into that mentality, we'd stilll have slaves, and women wouldn't be allowed to work full time.
I am more distressed by the fact that they are singing a Justin Beiber song. Why is no one protesting that abomination?
Oh, I'm a North Carolinian, and I know that we also have a thing called "PUBLIC" schools–which are, by their very definition, required to be SECULAR. Though this plainly biased story misleadingly called this song "patriotic", it is in fact "religious" and would be imposing a religious belief on possibly nonbelievers in the audience and classes.
The principal made the correct decision on that basis alone. There is nothing "intolerant" about it at all. It is a correct–albeit, unpopular–decision. And as I understood it, America is supposed to be about valuing ALL opinions-not JUST that of the majority? If we gave into that mentality, we'd stilll have slaves, and women wouldn't be allowed to work full time.
I am more distressed by the fact that they are singing a Justin Beiber song. Why is no one protesting that abomination?
thats one things we can agree on, Beiber should be banned. Their are exceptions to every rule.
Tim, lets say that you're an atheist parent who raised their child with a belief in Altruism, Equality, Patriotism, Morality, and a "do-unto-others" ethic (NOT exclusive to Religion, no matter what you may have been taught). The PUBLIC school requires your child to sing a song which very plainly espouses a belief in "God".
Would you not feel that YOUR rights and opinions were not being respected? WHY could the school NOT substitute a TRUE patriotic song in place of one so plainly religious? How about this simple stanza?:
"My country, 'tis of Thee,
Sweet Land of Liberty
Of thee I sing;
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountain side
Let Freedom ring."
Here's what I would say. I would say this "son, I don't necessarily believe in God, but I realize most Americans do, and faith in God is a cornerstone of American society." Therefore, I think our of respect for others, just sing the song and be done with it. It doesn't hurt you to sing it."
Provided a fundamentalist isn't in his face trying to convert him, I don't see it as a big deal.
Zizzer- I am assuming you are male, but if you were a female and you went to Saudi Arabia you would be expected to cover your head. You don't believe in the customer personally, but out of respect for the culture, you just do it.
Same thing here, most Americans believe in God. Your not going take "in god we trust off" off coins ect ect.
Well I can respect that, Tim. It seems a reasonable directive to a child. However, it doesn't address the fact that public schools are supposed to be secular, and the other important issue that right now there are Christian fundamentalists of many stripes trying to force and sneak religious indoctrination and phraseology into secular institutions, and they take advantage of every foothold to try to push their vision of a theocratic worldview. In my view, it sets a bad precedent, and further erodes the Wall.
I don't know about that Zizzer. FOr a long, people prayed in publics, not necessarily in a formal sense like you would see at a parochial school, but in the south there might have been formal praying in public schools, particularly where people are 90% Baptist. I think people think that any public institution can have no religion affiliated with it. This is true, but what people don't understand is that there is no law that prevents a person from expressing him or herself in a public institution. When I was in teh Navy, I remember a guy who would readily read his Bible on the base. He wasn't pushing it on anybody it was just part of his belief system. no one complained or cared. In countries around, their is no such thing as seperation of church and state. In a socialist democracies like croatia, you will see the crucifix hanging in teh post office. No one cares or complains. You cannot divorce people's beliefs when it comes to their involvement in the public sector.
I don't know about that Zizzer. FOr a long, people prayed in publics, not necessarily in a formal sense like you would see at a parochial school, but in the south there might have been formal praying in public schools, particularly where people are 90% Baptist. I think people think that any public institution can have no religion affiliated with it. This is true, but what people don't understand is that there is no law that prevents a person from expressing him or herself in a public institution. When I was in teh Navy, I remember a guy who would readily read his Bible on the base. He wasn't pushing it on anybody it was just part of his belief system. no one complained or cared. In countries around, their is no such thing as seperation of church and state. In a socialist democracies like croatia, you will see the crucifix hanging in teh post office. No one cares or complains. You cannot divorce people's beliefs when it comes to their involvement in the public sector.
In the case of this teacher, she didn't want to sing the Lee Greenwood song because it mentioned God, well you know sometimes you just need to let it slip through. You just can't be that sensitive to every little comment that references religion.
In the case of this teacher, she didn't want to sing the Lee Greenwood song because it mentioned God, well you know sometimes you just need to let it slip through. You just can't be that sensitive to every little comment that references religion.
Tim. I agree with everything you wrote. I have NO PROBLEM with people "expressing their beliefs" in public. NO problem if you want to stand in the grocery store line and read your Bible, or pray silently. If you want to stand on the corner with a sign that says "Jesus is coming!", be my guest.
However….when it comes to PUBLIC institutions which are taxpayer supported and which are supposed to represent ALL PEOPLE–atheists, agnostics included–I draw the line at their endorsement of ANY God or religion.
In a way, this is probably "growing pains" that our nation must endure, same as when Jim Crow laws were ended. It's a form of social myopia, that expects that everyone believes in a god. But the numbers of nonbelievers are growing, and ought to be accorded respect.
You have to admit, also, that there has been a disturbing trend of Christian Dominionism taking place in America–activists trying to push proselytization from the pulpits and allow churches to endorse candidates, trying to lie to get Creationism taught in schools, to overturn essential protections to ALL religions under the current "Wall". Church/State separation works for ALL religions–but when CHristians complain about some "persecution" or the like, it's usual because the secular side has beaten back yet another attempt to circumvent these legal protections and statutes.
I don't think the government should endorse any religion either. But I think that government works should be able to make expressions of faith on the job. Moment of silence, crucifix, bowing to Meccah, big fat Buddha, ect, ect. It's funny that you mention this, because I work for a private company, and we had this lady who tried to act like she was second in line to Pope Benedict at work. She wore a crucifx the size of head and wore nun shoes, i thought she was a nun at first. This women was way out of line. Very bad person to work with, very hypocritical too. Anyways this is just plain wrong. But wearing a small crucifix and evern displayiang it is perfectly acceptable. It is all about common sense and honesly, I just don't think this principle used good sense. Was it worth all this?
The Christian fundamentalist stuff annoys me too, but they are people and have rights just like you and I. I think they tow the line alot. usually if you live them alone, they leave you alone, sometimes. It is when they start attaking your beliefs that they go overboard, this
Well they do indeed have "rights" too, Tim, but the problem is that hey would just as quickly deny yours and my rights if they contradicted their agenda.
And if you don't think governments shoudl endorse religion, then perhaps your should reconsider the fact that this is indeed a publicly-funded institution? Now if the teacher wantd to wear a small crucifix, I have no problem with that. But some of these teachers put up scripture verses and posters in their classrooms–and that's too far. My thinking is that the more you give to people like this, the more they want. Give em an inch, they'll want a mile. And the most disturbing aspect of it is this perverted ethic that "A lie told in service of the Lord is not a lie at all". They use deceit and subterfuge to try to advance their goals–like the blatant falsehoods called out by the judge in the Dover, Pa. Creationism case.
In any case, it's unfortunate that the country is at this kind of loggerheads, but it's not the Atheists who have taken it here. This was a deliberate strategy by rightwing policy makers and strategy-planners, to use the Religious Right and claims of "persecution" to motivate and inflame their base. Want to read something scary? Read Jeff Sharlett's "The Family". You'll see what I mean.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz Halloween decorations and kids school costume parades offend me.
Justin Beiber and that hot chick (Amanda Baynes) who asked for Obama to get her out her speeding ticket, they kind offend. But because she was hot and clueless, that is ok.
Yeah, that was kinda arrogantly-clueless of them. Unreal, honestly.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz The point is Zuzer, it doesn't work like that in the U.S. You want to block out all refence to God and the people here are standing up for their rights. That's also how you're free to blaspheme on this site. God is real and if you disagree, that's too bad. We still stand up for what we know to be true.
The Country that is America, AKA USA, was started with folks who wanted freedom of Religion for one thing. That doesn't mean the "minority" , who doesn't subscribe to an all powerful Creator will dictate what the majority do. So sorry to burst the Atheist and Agnostic bubbles. The Judeo/Christan foundations of our respective Religions, even being tolerant to others beliefs and dis-beliefs, is not geared to the folks who object to exposure to Prayers, references to God, etc; if this offends you you are free to go to a Country that defiles Faith based Society, and the personal freedoms, that often effects the way Govt. and less caring Politicians treat their constituents. In any case I respect your opinion and you are not bound by any law that says you have to Pledge, Pray or Believe in any thing you don't want to.
She Offends Me !!!!
Yet another reason why I homeschool!
It's a free country, anyone who is offended by patriotism is free to leave it.
This is America, dammit! If you don't like the way we do things, than go back to where you came from. We are not supposed to bend over backwards to satisfy every culture of every immigrant who comes here. They came to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Do things our way!
Nick Wright, YOU can't state that there are no gods. You don't know it.
It is in your BELIEF system that there aren't any. It's time for some.
intellectual honesty from YOU!
Enough already! We live in America and if you don't like things here by all means LEAVE. I am proud to be an American, I support our Troops and pray to God, yes God that they stay safe. I love this country and those of you who are offended by songs and Religion and Holidays, who cares! I cant understand that one person (teacher) is making such a fuss over "God Bless America" and we all bow down. Why don't you all grow a SPINE.
AMEN!!!!
Totally agree don't know obviously who the teacher is but over here is the same Diane the world has gone mad xx
Amen! I agree with you Diane 100%. I love my country!!! God Bless America land that I love.
They can't sing this but Bieber is OK. Nuts.
Well said Diane!
Well said Diane!
Natalie Forsyth the world is over!
Natalie Forsyth the world is over!
Totally agree!!! She should be fired immediately! There is a reason why this is called the "United States" – we all come from different countries & cultures, but we to embrace the language, and pledge allegiance to the flag – it's what unites us all!
Obama has done his best to change us over to ISLAM he is an ISLAMIST " Practicing " Chritianity,he has already added to and taken away from the Bible and it says whoever shall do so shall be acursed! so I guess he didnt read that far now he says he knows more about judiah than aybody because he read it (Israel has gotten nothing but lip from him ) we have promised to be thier allie but Iran and the others are Islamists or Muslims and that in its self is another reason he has to go. go to grassfire.com,,,,fredthompsonsamerica.com,,,and to a nice lady real smart on all of this JanMorgan.com,,,,,, good luck
You're delusional, Mike. Obama is a Christian, period. He may not be "Christian enough" for you, but he's Christian nonetheless. People like you apparently wouldn't be happy until you had someone like a televangelist in the White House. Maybe that nutjob Santorum? Please don't vote–you could ruin this country.
You're delusional, Mike. Obama is a Christian, period. He may not be "Christian enough" for you, but he's Christian nonetheless. People like you apparently wouldn't be happy until you had someone like a televangelist in the White House. Maybe that nutjob Santorum? Please don't vote–you could ruin this country.
You're delusional, Mike. Obama is a Christian, period. He may not be "Christian enough" for you, but he's Christian nonetheless. People like you apparently wouldn't be happy until you had someone like a televangelist in the White House. Maybe that nutjob Santorum? Please don't vote–you could ruin this country.
What this principal has done is an absolute disgrace. Does she really believe that anything from Justin Beiber is really age appropriate for Kindergarten children? I certainly hope this Baby Oh Baby song is not one with a crotch holding scene, as so many of the teenage male entertainers use in today's videos. If she wanted to use the excuse of "age appropriateness" then, perhaps the children should have been reciting something from Mother Goose rhymes, or wouldn't that be "age appropriate". Additionally, for the Department of Education to back her up is offensive. I am proud to be an American, always have been and always will be. It is never my intention to offend anyone's feelings or culture but this is supposed to be a FREE country. If people are offended by Americans being proud of their country (the country others have chosen to live in and earn their living in) then, perhaps they should find another country better suited to their sensativities.
Bravo!! Well said! This certainly is a disgrace. WTF is this country coming to?? Who IS this mean lady (that is a thesaurus meaning for BITCH) and where does she come from? And JustinBieber????????? That show off no talent little punk?? Half of the kids don't even like him! I am soooo tired of hearing this crap about "not offending anyone" Gimme a break! I am damn proud to be an American too, and whoever it is in the BOE that is supporting this crap needs to get kicked out!
Bravo!! Well said! This certainly is a disgrace. WTF is this country coming to?? Who IS this mean lady (that is a thesaurus meaning for BITCH) and where does she come from? And JustinBieber????????? That show off no talent little punk?? Half of the kids don't even like him! I am soooo tired of hearing this crap about "not offending anyone" Gimme a break! I am damn proud to be an American too, and whoever it is in the BOE that is supporting this crap needs to get kicked out!
You are so right
If you are offended, then get the hell out of my great country. we don't want you here if you can't respect our country and our love for it.
If you are offended, then get the hell out of my great country. we don't want you here if you can't respect our country and our love for it.