Oct 25, 2011
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The Portland School Board voted unanimously to allow anti-war protesters to set up alongside military recruiters and giving them equal footing in public high schools – a move that some critics are calling an insult to the military.
Board members said the wanted to give students a balanced view of what military service might mean – outside the pitch delivered by military recruiters.
“There is nothing in this resolution that says there is a condemnation of military service,” board vice chairman Martin Gonzalez told the Associated Press. “There is a desire on our part for our students to become more educated in the choices that they are making.
Supporters of the plan said it was important for students to learn about the potential downsides of military enlistment.
“The military is not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes the way it’s used is a bad thing,” Grant Remington, a member of Veterans for Peace told Fox 12. But military veterans in Portland are outraged by the move.
“There is an anti-military bias in many minds,” said Richard Kemp, a member of Portland’s American Legion Post One.
Kemp told Fox News that in fairness, the rule change should require that opposition be presented to any recruiter appearing on campus.
Veteran Reese Lloyd said the decision was insulting.
“What are they saying – suggesting – about all of us who have served, those who are serving now?” he asked Fox 12.
The chief operations officer for the Oregon Army National Guard said that recruiting in Portland public schools is not exactly easy.
“We have difficulty making inroads to even get into those Portland Schools,” Lt. Col. Cary Miller told the AP. “My recruiting force is a professional force. They’re not going to step out of line or lie to kids.”
The big question is how the board will implement the new policy. Staff members are expected to write rules governing which anti-war protesters and peace activists will be able to recruit.
“It’s really a matter of fairness,” John Grueschow, with War Resisters League told Fox 12. “Congress mandates that high schools have to invite the military in. We feel there should be a response. We’re not telling kids not to join the military.”
So-called “counter recruiters” will be allowed on campus in January. The policy is similar to ones used by schools in San Francisco and Seattle.
With reporting from the Associated Press & KPTV-Fox 12
FOX News Talk
This is ridiculous, recruiters are allowed at schools because the government gives the school money. What are the anti-war protestors giving the school? An equal amount?
Recruiters aren't allowed to give the school money. They go as a service to the students, to their branch of service and to the country. I was in the USCG and ran our unit's adopt a school program and worked closely with my roomate, who was the USCG recruiter for our area. The adopt a school program had rules; one of which was that the school had to be a high minority school. This rule was mandated by CONGRESS! The idea was that elementary school kids, of which a high number were minority, would have the idea of a military career imparted to them through interaction with service members. When the minority kids grew up and thought of careers, they thought of the military and would be more receptive to recruiters. This program was mandated by CONGRESS! The military gets blamed for recruiting poor minority kids that don't have a choice and that's not the case at all.
So the more money one has the the more that person has a right to free speech?
If you dont pay taxes get the heck out of america, we dont need you!
You mean like 50% of Americans who pay no income tax.
Richard, it sounds like you missed my point. Schools are funded by the United States government, and with funding comes an open door policy for the shools to allow recruiters onto their campus. For example, Harvard said "no" to recruiting on campus, therefore the government (United States not the Army/Navy/Air Force) gave them no federal funding. Racial makeup of an area or school has no basis for where a recruiter works, thats a common misconception that many people believe. In fact the makeup for our Armed Services almost exactly mimics the racial makeup of the country as a whole.
That money comes from us first and foremost. So it is our money. States and school should not be forced to jump through hoops to reap the benefits of our labor.
Jeremy Sherman there in lies the problem with the recent ruling from the supreme court allowing corporations to make donations to political campaigns as if they were a regular person like you or me. Microsoft, Apple, etc… have more money than me so what am i going to do if I disagree with their candidates agenda?
Jeremy Sherman welcome to america
Ummm they are tax payers?
Jeremiah J Pedro I was being sarcastic i agree with you.
I say the military pull all their money since apparently the counter recruiters do their recruiting without paying anything to the school..after all its the "fair" thing to do.
Umm F-em
"Board members said the[y] wanted to give students a balanced view of what military service might mean".
I review the 'text' books and materials my daughter brings home from Portland public schools. These kids get your "balanced view" 6 hours a day as a captive audience and that view is nearly pure Marxism. Let the military have a say, you've abused the privelege of having your say.
Message to the Portland School Board: Bad decision.
Nothing about life is "fair". Let's see film footage of how "peacefully" the anti-war protestors behave.
Does this mean on Nutrition Day that McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc. will be allowed to show up and explain why fast food is really good for you?
Yep, and the opposite of evolution and all the different views on sex education..
Paige Ketcham I wonder if they realize how far this takes the lid off Pandora's box?
That analogy doesn't hold. We know through scientific data that fast food is not healthy. It's hard to scientifically prove someones opinion on the military.
Yep…and I'm sure they'll allow opposing views to global warming as well.
Paul Stinebiser Science has the principle of falsifiability. It has no ego and as of right now there is overwhelming evidence fast food is bad for ones health. As with global warming, depending on who does the study, shows contradictory results. Thus differing viewpoints are justified with global warming as long as they are based on reasonable logic. In conclusion views on the military are social issues regarding opinions where as health, biology, andatmospheric science, has math to back it up.
Jeremy Sherman I'm not arguing here, but the point is…we never hear the contradictory view point on global warming (now climate change), and will likely never be mentioned by the mainstream media or taught in school. Most youth believe global warming is fact, and I'm wondering if the Oregon schools will now let opposing views be equally expressed.
Pull their Federal Funding. This isn't new folks, I put up with this BS in Oregon while recruiting for the Army in Eugene Oregon in 92.
Jeremy Sherman Try being free without a Military. If you won't stand behind the Military, please feel free to stand in front of them!!
Jeremy Sherman Oh, I don't know… we don't really need science to prove it. Any country over run by another who wants to take it over will lose if they cannot or will not defend themselves. History proves this over and over and over.
Al Queda is not going to be intimidated by a bunch of liberals giving them dirty looks for not being PC as they murder our families. This school is absolutely shameful. Everyone who opposes our military needs to go visit a country run by Sharia law and then stand ready to receive it, because it is already infiltrating America.
If we do not defend our liberty and our freedom, we will lose it. If we do not support our military and encourage American patriotism, our country is lost.
Pamela Shattuck Who ever said I was against the military. No one was defending the other side so I did. Nothing occurs when like minded people discuss things they just reconfirm each others beliefs. I believe we should have a military because other countries can be up to no good.
Secondly I respect military persons they are more courageous then I will ever be, but I don't always respect what the commanding officers have them do.
It is a proven fact that joining the military very well may be the end of your life. If there can't be someone there to suggest that to the young people, there is something wrong. That the military should be there telling them how glamorous the military is, why shouldn't there be someone there explaining the risks and tell them they may die for a political agenda? What a war-mongering country.
Pamela Shattuck : Heck, we just helped al Qaeda grab power in Libya. Wait another decade or so and we will see how helping the 'freedom fighters' there works out for us. I know how helping out bin Laden worked out for us years later…
Steve Jurries Who doesn't know that joining the military could end your life if you are called to duty? Who says it's all glamorous? Glamorous? Who defines military as glamorous?
Yes, it could cost your life, but no military loses the country. Who is going to protect the nation in time of war ~ yes that time when someone wants our land in addition to their land? Our "Leaders"?
Terrorists are already over our boarders. There are terrorist cells in many places in this country. When they decide to 'move' who are you going to call? America was a world power… how do you think it stayed that way? Liberty, freedom, democracy, and a military 2nd to none. Now with "Leaders" selling us out at every turn and cutting the military, it won't be long before we are cutting our own throats without Al Quaeda.
Am I correct in reading that you would rather call the country that keeps you free and gives you freedom of speech, a war monger? Looked at Iran lately? Syria? North Korea? Russia? Who is going to protect you?
Jeremy Sherman Your argument is weak. You are just playing the devils advocate which is fine if that makes you sleep better at night. Your one comments says that the original posters analogy is a bad one because we know through scientific data that fast food is unhealthy. Then your next comment claims that science has the principle of falsifiability. Well if in your opinion data on global warming will depend on who does the study (or rather who funds the stud) why wouldn't the same hold true for fast food? As for the military and how people form their opinions of it there is a concerted effort by those who have a negative opinion of the military to sway every single person to their way of thinking. I think that it is interesting that the vast majority of military recruiters will give you a straight answer backed up by facts. Where as information presented by anti-war protesters is designed to instill a sense of fear and foreboding. They would have you believe that if you join the military you are going to die. But they don't tell you how many young people between the ages of 18-22 die every year on college campuses in comparison to how many troops have died in the two most recent wars spanning a period of ten years. They like to throw death toll numbers in your face but don't submit opposing opinion because it does not suit their needs. It doesn't further their goals so they conveniently avoid that topic and are quick to change the subject to something negative about the military instead of engaging in a balanced discussion.
Jeremiah J Pedro: I wound up blocking this guy. He's really weak for someone claiming Purdue.
Bernie Markey That wasn't our country and we were not the only ones fighting. Blaming all the failure there on the US is wrong. I'm talking about America.
I agree there are fights we get into with others that we shouldn't, but we also need to be prepared for the time when this soil will be hit, oh yeah, like 9/11! Where would we now be if we had no military? Would Al Quaeda have stopped there? How about Pearl Harbor and WWII. If we had no military, where would we be Bernie? Where?
Jeremy Sherman…. I disagree. The upside to the military is drive, success, being a part of something, being proud of the country you serve, keeping our country safe and free, it's a job and a life style – a good one. The upside to anti-war protesters? Drugs? Jobless, homeless? My kids attend Portland schools and I am sickened more and more every day by this state. These days you can't be too careful with your kids. Wouldn't we all rather they be serving their country than living (and dying) hooked on meth? Because here in Portland… that's a big problem. The kids here don't need this, it's just going to make things worse.
LoriAnn Dean: Yeah, tweekers are a real societal plus. Total waste.
lol mark what are you talkin about man? Is war really good for humanity? Does war save lives? No, it only brings destruction and I think it's universally understood destruction is not good for us
Colin Michael Sheehan: Uh, huh?
Colin Michael Sheehan I guess you don't need the police either hey BIG BOY…Waste of a human being…Brain fried by drugs??
Pamela Shattuck, I am not slamming the military or what it does. I just think that young folks should get both sides of the argument before signing up. That the anti-war, anti-military group should get their say as well.
Doc Radford Those that have never served will never fully understand. Soldiers are at the heart of this nation. Not simple protestors and such with no guidance.
Probably not a military veteran anywhere, on the school board. That's OK, this will come back and bite them.
"Supporters of the plan said it was important for students to learn about the potential downsides of military enlistment" I am hoping if this is to be the truth the people representing this side were also membrs of the military at one time? probably not though!
Next we will need to bring in citizens of dictatorship style countries to show the potential downside of not having a military to defend our freedoms. Sure kids just skip doing your part to ensure our way of life. It's all about what is best for you. It takes a village to raise a child apparently but no one to defend them…
From the article: “The military is not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes the way it’s used is a bad thing,” Grant Remington, a member of Veterans for Peace told Fox 12." I would imagine that Veterans for Peace is comprised of veterans.
Bernie Markey: I might wonder about what kind of discharge they may hold……
Bob Burns : Well, mine is honorable and I would certainly like to see the military used differently than it has been. Once again, anti-war is not necessarily anti-military.
I was prior service and I'd be happy to talk someone out of service if I'm able. I've got the credibility to support my claims.
Bernie Markey: Read von Clausewitz. It may bring some clarity. And thanks for your service.
Bob Burns I hold an honorable discharge and make it my personal mission to dissuade any and all I might be able from joining the military. There's more to life than savagely butchering otherwise innocent people because your corrupt government tells you too. How many innocent lives are taken per single terrorist? And you can't hide behind the "sacrifice is necessary in war" mindset. Get rid of the them or us mentality before you destroy yourself, whether it be physically or spiritually.
Colin Michael Sheehan: Yeah, and how many innocent lives does one terrorist take out? I agree, totally, with the physical and spiritual destruction. Your life changes forever and it's a very personal deal. But, hey, I'm not gonna have some fuckin' Imam telling me how to run my life. Period. Too much skin off my back, already.
Bob Burns I never denied what the extremists do isnt evil. But you seem like a sensible guy. Surely you could agree to the fact that every predator strike, every fire mission anything called in that destroys innocent lives is just breeding more hatred. For every one terrorist killed a handful of innocents are killed. Of the family and friends of those innocent lives lost, how many are going to pick up their rusty ak and start fighting? America lost in Iraq and it'll retreat from Afghanistan too. No one, I don't care who they are, can win a war fighting against terror like that. The feds have done a great job so far playing defensively here though there are presumably countless threats at home there are just waiting for some kind of unified attack to cause nationwide panic. The streets right here are where we need our military strength, to keep a presence and to provide order and peace of mind for the citizens. And while I'm personally pro-immigration, the fact that the violence of the cartels on the southern border is well out of hand and spilling into the streets, these guys are ex military, ex special forces. And we're sending our police to stop them? I mean our police are great but they aren't handled for that kind of thing. I dunno. Our government is retarded and doesn't know what it's doing anymore. They'd rather point fingers at the opposite party instead of make concessions and reach results.
The government should withhold federal funds from the district. But Ore is an anti-God, anti-American state. I wish a tsunami would wipe out the lower west coast, bunch of wetbacks and hippies.
I live in Wa and not a hippie or a wetback.
If the federal government withheld funds from the school district the students would suffer because a small group of board members voted the wrong way. Last thing we need now is more ignorant people. We are all Americans and to say you want a state to be wiped out by a tsunami shows how divided we are. American is about freedom and was not based on Christianity just research any founding father. So they are not anti-american just because they have a different view then you.
Jeremy Sherman But they were still religious and believed in the word of God and prayed.
The FEDERAL gov't shouldn't be funding an Oregon school at all any how. Oregon should be funding their own schools and DC should keep their nose out of it. Having said that, anti-war does not mean anti-military. Our 'common defense' is a great thing. Our invading other countries is NOT DEFENSE. Not to mention we have spent decades arming, funding and then attacking those same countries and we are currently paying for said invasion by borrowing from COMMUNIST CHINA. How does that make any sense?
Jana Cornelius Davis Article 11 in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States is not a Christian nation. I'm sure there were many Christians during the birth of our nation but the most notable founders Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson where not. They however could be considered spiritual but they did not hold any text divine like your post implies. I'm not against Christianity. I just think that most Christians would not appreciate Muslim officials making us pray 5 times a day. The government should always be science based not religious.
Jeremy Sherman: Science based?? Once again, are you really a Purdue student? Take a moment and consider how often science is found flawed and corrected. It shouldn't take you long to realize the hilarity of your post.
Bob Burns Yes I'm studying to be a Chemical Engineer. Yes science is flawed but it doesn't have an ego so it adapts. It doesn't demand that change is wrong. Science however proves itself daily with electricity, cell phones, and literally everything else we use. Instead of attacking me by questioning the validity of my academic ability how about you share your ideas and try to prove my theories false.
Jeremy Sherman: I wasn't aware you were advancing any theories.
Bob Burns My opinions are my theories. Once again give me justification for why you believe the things you believe instead of trying to attack me. That is opposite of what needs to be done.
Funny you should say that John. You denounce someone for, by your assumption as being anti-God, thus implying you are a man of faith. Then in the very next sentence you wish death upon human beings. How very christian of you. This is why His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI called for all christians everywhere to LIVE their faith. Talking the talk is worthless without walking the walk. When people read ignorant statements like yours its no wonder they don't take Christ seriously. Just think that by choosing to follow Christ you make yourself visible to others. Everything you say, every action you take may ultimately come down to either honoring Christ or shaming Him. It's clear what your previous statement has done. Please think about what you want to say in the future before you post it.
We veterans fought this batle with the school board some years back and won: somewhat This is another knife in the back of our own military by the Portland Left and let's get something straight here right now: these people are NOT anti-war. They are against America winning wars but only when a Republican is Pres. Since Obama has been president the streets of Portland went from an almost continuous anti-Bush war protest to silence.
I'm prior service and I'm all for peace being taught to students. The military is capitalizing on the violence of kids these past generations. Violent music, violent movies, violent media, violent video games. It desensitizes people to the reality of what war is. Thus you have countless completely ignorant people enlisting because they want to kill people for america. I say this with confidence because I was one of them. They deserve to hear some truth as opposed to all the recruiters lies and empty promises. Lord knows if I was "forced" to fight a war I'd stand against america no matter who I was forced to take up arms with. Thankfully I've done my time and am out and am able to leave that nightmare behind me. That said, recruiters should stay in recruiting stations. Not setting up tables in high school and middle schools where CHILDREN go to learn. Unless you're comfortable deploying a fifth grader? If you're not ok with that than why allow recruiters to peddle their destructive filfth around kids? It's wrong.
Colin Michael Sheehan: Not so much to kill people. More enlist in the hope of learning a trade. I think we can all agree combat is not a pleasant experience.
Colin Michael Sheehan Funny, as someone who participated in so-called "destructive filth," you have your profile picture as a man in uniform with a gun at the ready.
Colin Michael Sheehan My husband fought during veitnam war,but he never came back degrading the military or our country,our 2 sons are in national guard and oldest one been in it for a while been deployed twice,my youngest son is in iraq,and i have never heard them speak bad of our military,nor would they choose to go againest our country.there is no job perfect any where .war is ugly but its the way it is.i have known the military to recruit 5th graders,they only go to schools when a student contacts them in high school.college maybe another story.there is more violets in a game now and these kids thrive on it.
John Carey I leave that pic up there so people don't just pass me off as someone who never served and talks about things he wouldn't understand. I can talk from experience, not just from my ass.
Colin Michael Sheehan You sir are a square peg in a round hole shitbag. Take your anti American vitriol and gtfo. First decrying the Military and talking about how its a nightmare, then going so far as to make your avatar pic, an image of you standing with an M16 in some kind of "Hi Im a badass" pose. Thank you for your service but we are doing fine on AD w/o you.
John Carey: That's a rifle.
Colin Michael Sheehan: You and a few million other American men and women. Like I said, it can screw up your head. Get it fixed. It's doable.
John Maddy I don't see how that's a "Hi Im a badass" pose. Why is my profile pic getting under your skin so much? Just because I served does not mean I have to be a mindless drone and relish in the destruction of americas enemies. If you were really interested in defending america you'd turn your guns on the white house (figuratively speaking as I do not in any way condone violence). I came a long way from the 17 year old eager to buy into the recruitment ads and empty promises. All I've seen was hatred and death. I've lost friends in this war. And for what? Not a damn thing. My friends died for nothing. And that's not something I'm ok with. That's why I decry the military and the governments handling of conflict and foreign affairs. If I can persuade one person from enlisting than those who died in this conflict won't have died for nothing. As it stands I've been able to talk three people out of enlisting, which I take great pride in. Potentially saving lives is what I'm about, not ending them. If you disagree thats on you.
Colin Michael Sheehan , peace isn't taught. It's earned through strength.
Colin Michael Sheehan: Good luck to you. Lotta life ahead of you. No need for a thousand yard stare, as you go through it. Outta here.
Jetta Kyzar well as harsh as this is to say, to illustrate my point, by your very own logic if any of your loved ones serving are killed in this war (I am praying they won't) than by your own logic you have no right to complain afterwards. If they die, "oh well. That's war. That's just the way it is". That doesn't sound right does it? Of course not. Because it isn't right. I gather from your profile that you believe in God (which is great). Christ taught us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, not fill ourselves with pride and bare arms against our brothers. If we choose war we are showing Christ that we can't trust Him enough to handle things. I put my faith in Christ and He delivered me from the nightmare of the military and for that I'm grateful. And by His grace I've been able to talk others out of even taking on that great evil. War isn't exclusively american, it is a human failing and the only reason I'm complaining so much about the american military and government is because I live here. I have no business talking of other countries and their militaries as I've never lived there or served under them. It's unconscionable that in our "civilized" society we're so eager to send young people off to butcher others and be butchered. And all you ever hear from washington is "freedom freedom freedom". Contrary to popular belief, americans are not stupid. Toby Keith aside, not everyone jumps at the word freedom and instantly is filled with entitlement and nationalism and a sense of superiority and a desire to lord it over others. If anyone on here really wants to support our troops, than bring them home to their loved ones! Don't send them off to die in a country they have no business being in. That's cruel.
Joe Sarmiento peace gained by force is not peace at all. Its subjugation. A child could see the difference there. Christ made peace everywhere He went and He never once took up a sword against another. Peace can't be taught through words it must be taught through actions. Concessions must be made. If america is as good of a country as it arrogantly says it is, then it should admit its mistakes in the middle east, throw away its pride, attempt diplomatic relations to broker peace between dissident groups like the taliban and al qaeda as well as the governments in the middle east. As it stands the u.s. is about to make an enemy of afghanistan if they keep putting pressure on pakistan. If that happens than iran jumps in, then someone else jumps in then things get further out of control. What peace is there in that? america can't defeat the whole world. Hitler tried and was the closest to succeeding but he couldn't do it. Would you advocate for america to follow Hitler's lead and arrogantly march towards its own destruction? Why is it some americans, many of whom are in office, seek to make enemies of as many countries as they can? True strength comes through humility and compassion. Strength by force and violence is only savagery and cowardly. Choosing a lesser evil to fight a larger evil is still choosing evil and thus not the right decision.
Colin Michael Sheehan , I didn't say peace by force. Don't get me wrong, I believe our latest adventures have been mismanaged circuses designed to make money for someone. We definitely needed to go rip AQ a new one for 9/11, but I don't see what nation building has to do with preventing terrorism, especially when many Afghans want to remain in the Stone Age. Don't get me started on Iraq (true fiasco). As for my concept about peace, your idea about peace through compassion and humility only works in a perfect world, where all others share the same values. We all know this is not the case. The US is a great country, the greatest, when you consider the core principles upon which it was founded. Have we strayed? Of course we have. That said, it took us all working together to make our nation great, and likewise, it has taken all of us to veer off course. The military isn't to blame. We're a foreign policy tool of whomever sits in the big chair. Deluding ourselves about how to attain peace in a world that is currently being shaken to its core isn't the answer. It makes a heart all warm and gooey inside, but in practice, it takes work, and from time to time, some blood. If we're attacked, we can't just turn the other cheek. 9/11 was over 3,000 people, dude. That was just here. All over the world, AQ and others are trying to force their brand of life on others who are powerless. We are as duty-bound to protect them as we are to ensure our force is both measured and used for good causes. They're Nazis for the modern day. If we stood idly by while evil is done and we have to ability to stop it, then we would be contributing to said evil.
Joe Sarmiento If you claim america is the "greatest" you are clearly letting pride get in the way of reality. First off how is one nation greater than another? The time honored weight of "freedom". Yet there are select countries in western europe with equal amounts of freedom and yet in countries like switzerland they are in fact more "free" than americans are. So if that's out then by what means do you measure america as greatest? This is why the rest of the world hates america. They're not "jealous of our freedom". They hate us because pompous assholes make remarks about how america is the greatest country in the world when in fact it is not. I'm not saying its a bad country, but its by no means the greatest. Child abuse is higher in america than in italy or france or anywhere in europe given a recent international study. Mental health issues as well as violence in all forms are highest right here in america. What's great about that? european crime is juvenile compared to american crime. The government, no matter which party is in power, seeks to rob people blind and piss on everyone's rights. And while all this is happening (that is very visible to the rest of the world) instead of americans saying "things are really messed up here we need to do something about it" americans want to live in denial and say "well things are gettin bad here but they're bad everywhere. Deep down, this is still the greatest country in the world". It's arrogance to the extreme and the fact americans live by this illusion and tries to make waves in other countries all the time, is precisely why other countries hate us. This country will never change until the people as a whole pull their heads out of their asses and realize their shit does in fact stink like everyone elses.
I don't know, man. It's imperfect, but it's mine. It's good to have some pride, bro. If you work hard and contribute to your little piece of the world, be proud. Don't sell everyone so short. We do need to do something about it, but the way things are looking, everyone just wants to look out for themselves (see: Occupy Wall Street). Can't fight mob rule on your own, so you just have to work hard and watch your own lane. It's worked well for me. I live in a great American city that is clean and mostly free of major crime, I'm prosperous due to hard work and sacrifice, my daughters are receiving a wonderful education, I contribute to my community and I'm mostly happy. I stay aware of the world around me, but not so hyper-aware that I lose my good cheer and optimism, although I have plenty of reasons to. I see what you're saying, but that all-or-nothing mentality will just bring you down. Yeah Europe's cool, I've been there. But is it cool enough to live there? Not to me. Try it, it might suit you. Take care, bud.
Let me see. All democrats, all support the mob in the city park and all of them would like to see the military be cut out of the national budget. What can you say about a state that you can help someone kill themselves but you can't pump your own gas? BUT, they are progressive…………
If you do your homework, you will learn that republicans are historically the party of nonintervention (anti-war), all the way back to Taft. The repubs wanted out of Vietnam, Regan changed his mind on Lebanon (look it up if you don't believe me), and G.W. Bush ran on a policy very similar to that.
Aileen Brockbank: Nonintervention and anti-war are two completely different stances. You need to correct your syntax.
Our military is our proudest tradition. I don't think next door is appropriate.
Portland is filled with brainwashed liberals. The sheep don't want to believe there are wolves or sheepdogs.
I would like to ask the obvious question, may my son, a student, have an anti-traitor booth, to make it clear that respecting the man that is wilfully offering his life so that you may dine in peace is a MORAL obligation. The same kids that don't believe in the war often enlist because of belief in duty to our great nation. These kids in paticular are proud to defend the right to speak freely. My personal belief is that if the organizers are under the age of 18, and by so, do not have voting privelages, then any booth is inappropriate. The reality is so sad, our nation is assinine. This is clearly wrong. In the words of a famous judge, I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it!
THE LOW IQ ANTI WAR PROTESTERS ARE PROTESTING AT THE WRONG PLACE–THEY SHOULD BE AT THE WHITE HOUSE PROTESTING THE MANY WARS AND CONFLICTS "THE MENTALLY UNSTABLE OBAMA" HAS STARTED–THE RESULTS OF OBAMA'S ASININE FOREIGN POLICIES ARE THE RADICAL ISLAMIC MUSL.MS ARE TAKING OVER EGYPT-LIBYA-TUNISIA AND THEY WILL BE GETTING READY TO GO AFTER ISRAEL THEN THE U S —-MOST OF THESE DROP OUT PROTESTERS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SENSE TO GET IN OUT OF THE RAIN WITHOUT BEING TOLD–
Solution is simple. Don't live in Oregon, San Francisco or Seattle! If a military presence is ever needed in those states they shouldn't respond! Live in the world you create nutbags!
How much does Seattle pay into the government compared to your shit whole town?
This country prides itself on allowing its people to have differing opinions. Now that you find a part of AMERICA disagreeing with you we should forget about them. Now that is unpatriotic. Every state is AMERICA and I'm glad we have different opinions it allows more balance.
Jonathan Hulbert: Squirrel food…..that uses improper syntax.
Jeremy Sherman: Are you REALLY going to Purdue? That post is so completely off base, that it's hard to believe you could last, academically. Seriously.
Yes I do go to Purdue and instead of insulting me why don't you TELL me why you think my theories are false. That's how a constructive conversation begins and that is how progress is made. I feel as though the vibe on this thread is America has the freedom of speech as long as it is in line with my thinking?
Jeremy Sherman: I'm not insulting you, pal. Thicken your skin. This is a comment board, not a constructive conversation. Your posts reflect your inexperience. That's all. There is no vibe here and you are experiencing freedom of speech, simply by posting on this site. It's that simple
Bob Burns My posts reflect my experiences much like your posts reflect yours. What is the point of commenting boards. They should be about discussing the issues.Secondly my skin is thick I merely correcting you on your sub-par conversation skills. You say things but give no reasoning.
Jeremy Sherman: Well, now who's being insulting? go have a conversation with your fucking mirror, dipshit.
Jonathan Hulbert can't even spell "hole" correctly. Real class in your response. Name calling instead of facts.
Jonathan Hulbert If it were up to me I would return all of Seattle's money and let them take care of themselves!!! I would be grumpy too if you stole our basketball team and made it successful in a shit "whole" town as you put it!!!!
Jeremy Sherman Not unpatriotic at all! They don't appreciate the military so why should the military protect them. I see that as getting what you ask for!!!!
Kurt Atterberry Because they are still Americans.
Jeremy Sherman That might be the weakest response ever. So called Americans who stand in the way of the protection of other Americans don't deserve the title of being an American! If the goal of anti-war groups is no wars than maybe they should hope that our VOLUNTARY military is the biggest and best so that no one messes with America. Explain to me why anti-war groups have a problem with military recruiters? The military exists to protect the american people not start wars! A title of anti military would be a more fitting name! Most of these anti-war groups believe the military and united states of america are evil. Doesn't that make them anti-american?
Kurt Atterberry But they believe they are helping Americans. That's the point. You think they are standing in the way of Americas protection they think that they are offering essential information to students. Difference of opinion. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean we should ostracize them. How can anything productive happen if any new idea is labeled anti-american? What is American to begin with we pride ourselves on being a "melting pot" of culture. America has no culture it is a blend of every other country. What is the point of having the right of free speech if your country disowns you if you use it?
Jeremy Sherman As I stated in my open comment. Americans are free to choose not to live in these states!!!
Kurt Atterberry You believe people should move out of states where the general population is deemed anti american? Whose going to fund this. Moving isn't cheap and finding a job can be hard.
The "anti-war protestors?" Doesn't this description of the "opposing" view speak to where they are politically and that their views are likely to be skewed? Military recruiters don't glorify war or conflict. What a bunch of wimps.
seriously? as a veteran and someone who wanted to join the service, I laugh at their stupidity. keep it up and we will be back to a draft or required service like most countries. its a lose-lose scenario. We don't want those kind of people in the armed services and they don't want to do anything that jeopardizes there liberal ways. oh and by the way when the recruiters are there during school hours to inform students of their choice, isn't that during the day? get a job you bumms!
Recruiters lie to people. That is a fact. SOMEONE needs to counteract their lies, so that students can make an informed decision. The military is great for some people, but if you join because you are promised that you can travel to any country you want, get out anytime you want and get a $20k bonus immediately after signing, then you need to know the truth. A recruiter actually told me to lie about taking medication and then sneak it into Basic training. That is a felony.
So don't join……….
before I signed someone other then the recruiter at MEPS, asked me if I had been promised anything not in the contract, asked if I had been told what bootcamp was like, went over the details of the contract including bonuses. So, if a recruiter had lied to me he would have been found out. Yes, a few recruiters have lied in the past, that is not news, just as it is not news cops lie on the stand, a few priests have molested, and teachers lie to kids about unions and US history etc… If Portland wants to protect kids from liars we need to keep the politicians out of schools.
Teachers lie to people. Really dumb argument.
Julie Marquez You obviously did not comprehend my post. Try re-reading it. the military is great for many people, but too many people join because of lies they were told. If someone complained about car salesmen lying to them, would you just tell them 'Well, don't buy a car?" Kinda stupid.
Bob Burns How is it dumb? If a person signs up for a certain job in the Navy because he was promised $20, and then finds out there is no bonus and he can't change jobs, is that okay? Is it okay to tell people to lie about their medical history or criminal history just to get in? Getting someone to sign up for the military is like a car sales man. They will tell you ANYTHING to get you to sign the paperwork, because once you do, it's not their problem anymore.
Lupus Pete: That's exactly what I'd tell them. If you're too dumb to make an informed decison, through your own research, and jump on any bandwagon that sounds good to you, you are in for a long, rough time.
Pete Lupus,knowing and seeing .No they do not lie you went in there and said you want to join and made it sound really good and you told them you were on medicine,and he was trying to help you change your life,because you presented your self as that.My son join at 17,i am so proud of him,he was a good kid before he went in but he is a better Man now.He shows respect to others,he presents his self as a caring person and would help any one,he has learned a trade to survive in this world.I think every parent should let there kids choose the right way.The military is a Good family for men an women who really wants to do the right thing,its not just about killing,its about learning,to be taught respect for yourself and others,and it is for our protection ,our country and the American Flag
Jetta Kyzar I have the utmost respect for the military and those who join it. BUT, recruiters have a quota, just as a salesman, and they WILL lie. It is against the law to lie to MEPS and against the law to sneak meds into Basic Training. My recruiter told me to do both. I was also told that I could pick any country that I wanted to be stationed at and I would be there for my entire enlistment, unless I wanted to go somewhere else, then I would be sent there. Not true. I was also told that I could sign up for the GI Bill at anytime during my enlistment. Not true. Like I said, the military is great for some people, but people need to go for their own reasons, and not based on lies there were told.
I think then that the school board should have allowed Jewish Holocaust survivors set up next to the protestors so students could see what happens if we don't have a military.
Anti-war doesn't mean anti-defense HERE AT HOME in America. Anti-war means don't go around invading other countries and telling them what to do. It also means don't arm and fund people like Osama and Saddam (which we did) and then spend BILLIONS/TRILLIONS to hunt them down and kill them. There is a difference between defensive military spending and offensive military spending.
Aileen Brockbank if only that were the real legitimate reason but of course it isnt. Their sole purpose is to degrade the miliitary and offer no alternative to those that cant afford or dont want to go to college. I love the men and women that serve and support them with all of my heart for all that they give.
Kim Willis: How do you know? Have you been to their booth? Perhaps you should visit them and see what they have to say.
Aileen Brockbank: And what, constructive, would they possibly have to say? It makes more sense to offer a booth to the Peace Corps, or some viable alternative.
Bob Burns: Maybe that is just the kind of info they are handing out. As I said, how do you know what they are 'selling' if you don't go and see for yourself?
Aileen …Defending ourselves with purely defense would fail, and allow our enemies to increase exponentially in numbers while we sit back and wait. Oh, and I guess it's only OK to tell other countries what to do when it has something to do with child labor laws, human rights, or carbon footprints. We can't cross that line when genocide or mass murder is taking place.
Aileen Brockbank : Thank you. Some people don't realize the difference between anti-war and anti-military. As a veteran myself, I do understand, as do most people that serve. This is why Ron Paul has such a large following amongst the active duty military.
Aileen Brockbank: I did my "four in the Corps". It led to a successful IT career, post graduate education, self employment and a full life (so far). I made the decision on my own. Maybe booths are superfluous on both sides. I apologize, and you are entitled to your opinion, but I see no merit in allowing "anti-war" booths, tables or representatives. As has been pointed out, it's a slippery slope, especially in a high school environment. This school board will now be required to provide a counterpoint to every available avenue, career and otherwise, in this particular school system. A complete waste of resources. High school graduates, today, have a hard enough time hiyying the real world with anything close to the tools required to even get by. This sort of accommodation doesn't help that equation…..at all. You can argue the point all night. It will end up pointless/
Aileen Brockbank: I did my "four in the Corps". It led to a successful IT career, post graduate education, self employment and a full life (so far). I made the decision on my own. Maybe booths are superfluous on both sides. I apologize, and you are entitled to your opinion, but I see no merit in allowing "anti-war" booths, tables or representatives. As has been pointed out, it's a slippery slope, especially in a high school environment. This school board will now be required to provide a counterpoint to every available avenue, career and otherwise, in this particular school system. A complete waste of resources. High school graduates, today, have a hard enough time hiyying the real world with anything close to the tools required to even get by. This sort of accommodation doesn't help that equation…..at all. You can argue the point all night. It will end up pointless/
Aileen Brockbank . oh and you have all the answers . you self righteous twits . clueless drones for the far left .. Maybe we should appoint you secretary of defense since you claim to know it all …
Oh Aileen the innoncense of the brain washed by the liberal progressive left who have no ideah why they even have the rights that have.
And they can set up next to Hiroshima survivors
Aileen Brockbank ,we have seen and heard of these anti war,groups and from my point of view they are just like the ones protesting wall street.They come from parents who did not teach them how to be respectfull for there country and flag,and military.My 2 sons and my husband is military,i have the up most respect for every damn one who protects you just so you can degrade them,step on there flag.
Aileen Brockbank ,well they brought it here first,and all the other times too.I was glad we went there are they would have came here and then we would have been detroy,so we played our cards right by going there.they killed 3000 of our people for no reason,they took there shot.its kinda like a burgalar,if he come in your home and kills your family are you going to shoot him are say thank you.
Aileen Brockbank Have you ever heard of the Maginot Line? Its not something you would have learned in school, but maybe…Look it up on wikipedia.
Kim Willis Kim you clearly can't claim something like that. Unless you mean to tell me you've met every single person opposed to war in the entire country. Then maybe I'd believe you but until then, please don't generalize about people out of your own misconceptions.
Aileen Brockbank What planet are you from. I spent 20 years int he military. I really doubt any of these protestors have any military experience. This is another classic example of the libs running our schools. I believe it is an honor to serve our country.
Jetta Kyzar: If only that were true, but it's not. We started interfering with the Middle East in 1949 and we've been in their countries with our military ever since….and who is 'they' who brought it here 1st? There was not just one country. They were from multiple countries, and the majority were from Saudi Arabia. I appreciate that your boys are in the service and I thank them, and hope they get to stay here to protect us.
Jetta Kyzar again jetta I don't see the point. The flag is so important to you? Idolatry? Committing sin against Christ whom you profess to follow? Christ didn't believe in nations, and he certainly didn't believe in war. I see this all too often. "Christians" and I use that term sparingly as it means next to nothing in america, especially with mainline protestants and non denominationalists are in a horrid trend of putting a country before God. america won't save you from death. Only Christ will. I pray you put away your pride in evil things like war and learn to accept Christ's will for your life and seek to exemplify it by promoting peace. If enough people have the courage to resist war, than peace can be accomplished.
Paul Stinebiser: No we shouldn't use military force to make other coutries treat their people they way we think they should. Further more, IF that were our agenda, why are we borrowing money from China (horrible human rights record for treatment of their citizens), so we can go over and save Middle Easterners from their oppressive gov't?
Things like this is why we call the west coast the "left" coast. Certainly the majority out west are normal Americans. The Portland school board is a colection o anti-Americans. Perhaps they are all baby boomers who graduated from Berkley. These liberal-progressive moves make me ashamed. Pat Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death." Now the saying is, "Give me."
Who the hell think gave them right to assemble, read in English and not german/Japanese? The US military jackasses!
Makes me sick to keep hearing garbage like this.
yeah that and the fact western society is being hunted to be exterminated. No big deal.
Anti-War groups? Really? In the words of Douglas MacArthur, "The soldier, above all other people, prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war." – Just because you are in the military doesn't mean you are pro-war, it just means that you realize that sometimes it is necessary to fight and someone has to do the fighting.
Iraq was really asking for it. I mean oil is definitely more important then the lives of our young.
Raymond that is quasi-cyclical reasoning. You quoted a military general.
Jeremy Sherman: quasi-cyclic
Jonathan Hulbert: Squirrel food
While this quote is true, soldiers do not make policy. They do not pick and choose when and where they will fight. Politicians use the soldiers as pawns. Anti-war and anti-military are two different things.
Jonathan Hulbert we didn't get oil from Iraq, that line is getting OLD so lefties like you need to give it up!!!!!!!
Bob Burns have you ever heard of cyclic reasoning?
Jeremy Sherman I think its supposed to be circular reasoning anyway. You both are wrong. Now, knock it off.
That's alright. Those losers at OWS will defend the country……..
Does this mean that Christrian groups will be give "equal access" to present "Creationsim" in Portland schools to counter the humanist teaching of evolution and the BigBankg theory? DON;T BET ON IT! Portland is about as wacky leftist as SanFranSicko. The Portland school board has apparently bought into the S0C! AL! ST propaganda that maintains the military is a "tool of the capitlaists." WAKE UP, Oregonians and Portlanders… the very survival of our freedom and liberty is as stake.
No not at all. The government is suppose to be non secular therefore science based answers are what should be taught in science classes. Secondly I would like to clarify right now Americas founding fathers were not Christians. Many of them Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Benjamin Franklin have several quotes emphasizing how important it is for the government to remain non secular.
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law
-Thomas Jefferson 1814
Can I set up a booth to tell students the truth about taking a job in teaching? Or going to college for teaching? Specifically an anit-uniion booth that would tell people the "truth". I can even use this line. Unions are not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes the way they are used is a bad thing.
It's tough being a patriot in the Pacific Northwest because we are a vocal minority. We all want peace. Thank God for our military who provide that for us: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. by George Orwell.
Anti-war folks pay into the tax system too. Freedom of speech works both ways, and I've heard many veterans say things like 'I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll fight to the death to protect your right to say it.' Shouldn't students learn both points of view? It's not anti-American to disagree with war. It is an educated opinion that our foreign policy is flawed. Some people disagree with the way we run our economy. Does that make them anti-American? No. It makes them anti-our current economic policy.
As long as they are civil, they have a RIGHT to be there. You don't have to be a liberal to disagree with our foreign policy. Republicans have historically been anti-war. Unfortunately that isn't taught much, or if it is the kids are paying attention. One of America's current anti-war presidential candidate (if you've been paying attention you know who he is) gets more money from MILITARY members than all other candidates COMBINED. I would have to say that speaks volumes. Fact check it if you don't believe me.
Your an idiot! This is nothing more than an attack against the military. They have a right because those guys they are next to and those before them, say in 1776, gave there lives for them to protest them. My dad served in Vietnam in 67, was wounded 3 times and he said the worst thing that hit him that year was a tomato at the SF airport. So hug a tree, sleep with a ton of unknown men, get a hit of LSD, don't shave your armpits or legs, forget how to bathe and drive around saying "make love not war." Yes, I served 21 years for this country and deployed four times for you to type on this website and was so severely wounded I was medically retired. I can't believe people like you exist but then again you voted for Obama.
James Harris: First off I feel horrible that your father was disrespected like that. It's unacceptable behavior. I'm also terribly sorry you were injured so badly you had to retire. If these people act that way, then they should be removed. I am not a skank and I shave on a regular basis, and I would NEVER vote for Obama.
Moving along, I have simply spent a lot of time educating myself, not with the media, or with public school books, and have learned a lot of cold hard facts that can be tough to accept. Our elected officials have been arming, funding and training both sides of most of the conflicts in the world for the past 50 years. If you'd like my sources, I'll be happy to share. They don't give a rats a s s about your or your Dad, and for that I am sorry.
I respectfully (although you're not being very respectful to me – and I forgive you for the pain you've been put through) disagree with the equation that going to the Middle East in anyway contributes to my ability to practice free speech in America. I wish you well on your continuing recovering from your injuries.
James Harris Whoa that's an ad hominem, in a philosophical conversation one should not attack the other directly (i.e calling her an idiot).
I am very sorry for anything I said that hit a bad nerve. Anyone who would capitalize NEVER earns my respect. I just dislike people who leave an impression of allowing those who dissrespect our country's history and how it was founded. I am very hurt that some people (Portland) would see fit to do this action. Thank you for your heartfelt appreciation and concern it is welcomed. I love free speech but burning a flag to prove we have it is disgusting to me. I see what they are doing is so obvious is mean and hateful. What does a protester us besides the right to show others that they can bitch about something legally. I protest a lot of things but with my family and friends. I don't like the direction of the country and am pissed with Congress. But it is what it is but none of us in the military asked to kill people and go places for years at a time. We saluted and executed.
Philosophical conversation? Really? One would attack if one was or felt threatened. I felt as if my beliefs, the same ones the protesters have, were threatened. I know the recruiters will behave themselves when threatened how about the protesters. The recruiters beliefs as well as the protesters are put in play which one says and does nothing? Go Blue BTW! See you in A2 on Saturday.
James Harris Well said James,my husband was there and shot 3 times,our son are military,why,because when they killed 3000 of our americans my son said.That is wrong and he sign at the age of 17,May god bless you and your family.
What a weird thing. Military comes in set up a booth and is offering something. The Colleges come in and offer students something. What will the anti-war booth really offer the students, other than a negative view of something and tell them hey don’t do this and that. Sounds kind of negative to me.
You mean a view that I don't agree with is allowed on school campuses. They must be unpatriotic. I mean anyone who doesn't agree with me must be against America. AMERICA FUCK YA GOING TO SAVE THE MOTHER FUCKING WORLD YA!
Squirrel food……
and your parents johnathan should be proud of your mouth.really it not that we agree or disagree its more of how you do it.wall street protesters look at a good example,no respect just do not care just as long as they get attention,they want every thing for nothing.
Sad. Protesters have no business in our schools. Recruiters are trying to help those interested in the military get answers. So we have protesters pushing an agenda next to military trying to help kids. What is this country coming to? Don't give me any BS about recruiters meeting quotas….the military is overstaffed….
Oregon, particularly Portland, has become the laughing stock of the country. If it was any further to the left it would literally be in the ocean. This is unequivocally the most unpatriotic city in America. The left has destroyed what was once a nice city to live in. This once-great state has become a cess-pool of liberalism.
So I'm assuming all of the protestors are being forced to submit to an Oregon State Police criminal background check right? I just completed mine to participate in my son's field trip.
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Let's just hope the anti-war groups don't handle themselves in their usual uncivil manner.
Does that mean that conservatives will get equal time to counter the lefty nonsense put out by public schools?
what do you expected Oregon as Liberal as they come maybe more liberal and anti american the say California.
Another bunch of liberal fools following the Communist Manifesto just like they were taught when they went to school. In 1941 if the world had been left up to people like them Hitler would have won World War II and his predicessors would have idiots like them in a concentration camp somewhere….or worse.
Typical of Portland and Oregon in general. Instead of being proud of our men and women willling to fight and die to protect the US from any and all enemies, the Portland School Board wants people to be ashamed of them. Very sad indeed!
WT #!*^ ! ! ! !
This is a very slippery slope. This opens the door to a requirement to present a opposing view point to any group with access to the students on campus. Use your imagination.
This country is nuts…
does this mean we have a counter point protesters to college recruiters as well? they are pretty slick.
So on MLK Day the KKK can set up a stand next one handing out MLK literature?
This is just another abomination…What are we going to do with these far left freaks on both coasts now? Should we pray for hurricanes…floods…earthquakes…or simply leave the next Republican President cut them off our will…to fend for themselves…NO more tax free money for you morons…unless you shape up…Imagine that.. Setting up our young military men and women with terrorists after all they have done… getting themselves shot…maimed…and killed…while the creeps create chaos and destruction…I know a lot of drugged brain damaged fools…BUT this takes the cake…AND we call the fools "A School Board"…Bring in your Big Guns sons and Daughters…AND do not get in there to take their abuses…They don't deserve YOUR presence…F–K them…The fools can get their education by doing the training that you did…Unreal…A School Board? No wonder our children are failing…GOD please help the little children… I can't even believe that our Military Commanders would even allow the recruiters in there anyway…terrorists will NEVER join the military…Forget them and leave them eating their own…
Wonder if the Street Gangs get to set up next to Police Department recruiters? NAMBLA going to have a booth too? For being such a beautiful state OR is full of lefty whack jobs. Embarrassing if you ask me. Sorry folks.
I believe that Our Left Coast Liberals do not have a clue about war and the military. Being in the military does not mean you go to war. If it were not for the military and the skills and prowess the individuals have we would not be able to provide the humanitarian assistance that was required over the past decade for natural disasters – Indonesia Tsunami, Japan Tsunami, Earthquake, Nuclear crisis, East Timor. The military has stuff and needs to have stuff and the people to use the stuff – in peace and war. Anti-War protesters provide an opportunity for them to give their free speech, but they provide no capability to support humanitarian crisis or to ensure that peace (anti-war) is influenced. Anti-war protesters are not the opposite side of the coin to military recruiters. This is not about fair play or providing students with more options, it is about indoctrination.
Preach it Brother!
Oregon is a VERY liberal state–I know, I live here. Love the state–hate the f uckin P.C-ness!
Equal time, fair share, validate all forms of stupid to accommodate everybody's everything!
Basically, NOTHING is O.K. if someone else disagrees. Not much wiggle-room.