Jun 20, 2012
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For the past seven years Pastor Terry Sartain has ministered to police officers and their families in Charlotte, N.C. Whenever the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. invited him to deliver an invocation, he prayed in “the name of Jesus.”
But not anymore.
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Volunteer chaplains in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. will no longer be allowed to invoke the name of Jesus in prayers at public events held on government property.
Major John Diggs, who oversees the chaplain program, told television station WSOC that the policy is a “matter of respecting that people may have different faiths and that it is not aimed at any one religion or denomination.”
Sartain, the pastor of Horizon Christian Fellowship, told Fox News Radio he was scheduled to give an invocation at a promotion ceremony. Before the event, he received a telephone call from his superior major.
“I was told chaplains can no longer invoke the name of Jesus on government property,” Sartain said. “(He said) if I could refrain from that during the invocation he would appreciate that.”
Sartain said he was surprised by the telephone call. The pastor said he’s prayed “consistently” in the name of Jesus at past police department events without any issues.
“I’m very sad about it,” he said. “I’m a pastor and Jesus is the only thing I have to offer to bless people – his life and his person.”
“It brings about a very real concern about where we are heading as a nation,” he said. “I serve a God who loves people unconditionally, who died for their sins on the cross, who wants to reconcile himself to them and love them where they are at – and now I’m told I can’t bless people as a result of that.”
The police department said he could still pray – just not to Jesus.
So to whom was the Christian minister supposed to pray?
“That was my question,” Sartain said. “If I’m going to pray – what should I pray?”
He said the police department wanted him to deliver a “secular prayer.”
“Even when I wasn’t a Christian – in my past – I didn’t even know what a secular prayer was,” he said. “Why even pray if it’s to the one who’s in the room? That could be anybody.”
Sartain said the new policy has put him in a difficult spot.
“You don’t want to compromise your faith,” he said. ‘At the same time you want to honor those who are in charge over you.”
So Sartain asked the police department to withdraw his name from consideration for future public prayers.
“I didn’t really need to do that as a chaplain,” he said of the public prayers. “I still wanted to have the influence with the police officers and their families.”
At least some people in the Charlotte area support the decision to remove the “Jesus-centric” prayers.
“It’s past time when they should’ve made a policy,” ACLU member Jim Gronquist told WSOC. “It’s improper to mix up religion with the function of state agents, and as long as they’re state agents, they should not be able to do that.”
Sartain said it’s apparent that “Christians for the most part are targeted in these days that we exist in.”
“As Christians in the United States of America – what we are saying as believers – is we want the same rights and privileges as everybody else,” he said. “Let the playing field remain level.”
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The chaplains should submit their resignations today. If the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. prefers to call in a rabbi, and imam, or some other antichrist to speak a "blessing," let them. To not prayer using the name of Jesus is clearly antichrist in nature. Here's how this same policy was handled in the past…"Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, “Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”" (Acts 4:18-20 NIV).
The ACLU needs to take thier ideas of what THEY think is right and go to another country and go bug them. This country has been doing fine with this as a part of our history. And, Having a religous factor in ANY function. To ask a Christian Chaplan to Pray a "secular" Prayer who IS he suppose to pray to…the "flagpole"? This is a lack of spine of the police department higher ups. Glad some people stand up to the ACLU and not EVERYONE knuckles under to thier bully tactics.
Disregard Satan and continue to offer prayers to our true lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Disregard Satan and continue to offer prayers to our true lord and savior Jesus Christ.
May God have mercy on his soul, and forgive his sins.
May God have mercy on his soul, and forgive his sins.
I don't believe a secular prayer ending with a silent, personal invocation of Jesus' name is compromising your faith – it's just respecting those who don't pray in Jesus name.
I'm really disappointed by the lack of respect people are showing to opposing viewpoints in this conversation. It also seems like people on both sides refuse to listen to the other side or consider whether there may be some truth to what their adversaries speak. A lot of people are blabbing about the Constitution and the ACLU and a bunch of other things that they don't know much about. I advise people to go back and read a bunch of Supreme Court case decisions and go back and read cases where the ACLU defended the rights of Christians to express themselves at public functions.
I'm really disappointed by the lack of respect people are showing to opposing viewpoints in this conversation. It also seems like people on both sides refuse to listen to the other side or consider whether there may be some truth to what their adversaries speak. A lot of people are blabbing about the Constitution and the ACLU and a bunch of other things that they don't know much about. I advise people to go back and read a bunch of Supreme Court case decisions and go back and read cases where the ACLU defended the rights of Christians to express themselves at public functions.
This government is the most stupid that we , in all history, ever had. Fire them all. what do you think the purpose of Chaplines are? we have had chaplins forever. Please get rid of this government. clean house from top to bottom and stop this stupidity.
This government is the most stupid that we , in all history, ever had. Fire them all. what do you think the purpose of Chaplines are? we have had chaplins forever. Please get rid of this government. clean house from top to bottom and stop this stupidity.
It is similar to Obama being against the National Day of Prayer but yet he kneels on the prayer mat with the Muslims in NYC. I would resign if I was that chaplain.
It is similar to Obama being against the National Day of Prayer but yet he kneels on the prayer mat with the Muslims in NYC. I would resign if I was that chaplain.
Tell them that told you this to "GO TO HELL" LITERALLY.
This is an illegal order. That said, we as Christian police chaplains, while under orders pursuant to Romans 13:1-4, must NOT compromise on things of God. When God had Paul write that passage, Nero was in power and kiling Christians by the thousands for not renouncing their faith. We must not submit on matters of faith. That said, a colleague here was asked do an invocation at a major national police conference but was warned that he could not pray "in Jesus' Name." My fellow warrior, being the really cool operator that he is, complied. He closed, "…in Jeshua's precious Name." That's Hebrew for Jesus…for those who didn't know. Well played.
I agree with the order, meaning that I want to be protected from 'other beliefs', should a 'hare krinsha' get a job as a chaplain. Please understand I am a King James Only fundamentalist, understand that when ever you have the government involved in 'religion' you have trouble. Many think that we are a Christian nation, study history and most of the framers were of the 'enlighten' age. we not only have freedom of religion, we also got freedom from religion, of course everyone knows about the stamp act, while the aristocrats of the colonies wanted a state church in the Constitution, those of Ulster-Scot influence did not want the government in any religion.
Go see the movie Monuemental- lots of cool history about how our Country started…
Well put D.L. Daly. Christians in Roman times had to use the sign of the fish to other Christians so they would not be arrested or beaten. Would some one ask ACLU if this stand against Christians is what our founders would want for the America they founded?
If you are not praying by the name of Jesus, you are praying to nothing so just stop praying then.
This is not about being anti-christian. It's about government not promulgating one religion over another. I have no problem with christians or their beliefs; I just don't want their beliefs forced on me under the guise of governental sanction. As for being able to pray while leaving Jesus out of it, Jewish, Hindu and Muslum believers don't seem to have a problem doing it. Christians, for some reason, insist that everyone believe as they do and espouse their beliefs with the conviction that theirs is our national religion. The Founding Fathers made it quite clear that they did not want our country to become a theocracy. That the christians want it to be christian would make it no less a theocracy than Islamic countries are. The problem with a theocracy is that a standard of correct thinking becomes punitive toward those who believe otherwise. That''s not our country, nor should it be.
Some of these Americans are confused and ignorant. What made America great. It was not by their own might. Americans should carefully examined the signifiocance o f their national symbol.- The Great Seal. The motto Annuit Coeptis on top of the pyramid says it all. "He propsers our beginning". Who prospered the beginning of America? It wsa the Almighty God. American's' exceptionalism was endowed upon them. I have no time to explain it now. They should do a seriouis study about their history from Biblical pespective. If Americans don't want the Lord Jesus, the Lord does not need them either."Whoever is not with me is against Me. And he will scatter." whoever I s ashamed of Me, I wil also eb ashamed of him." Wh should an American president swear on the Bible before he takes the White House?
If the police force had always been 100% Muslim, and some Christians joining the force asked that the chaplain's prayers be more inclusive and not mention Allah, would that make sense to you?
Although I agree with Danielle that they probably should have no department chaplain. People can consult their own religious leaders, or their hearts; they don't need a spiritual adviser appointed by their workplace bosses.
That's ok, let them use his real name – Yeshua when they pray!
If he cannot pray to jesus.. why even have a service..
Nick, If you want the document that mentions the name of Jesus, I am not sure which ones may- but I know that in a court of law the magnitude of the evidence is a clear definition of the way it is. If you look at all of the wars this country has been in, both internal and abroad, you will find that all of the military men and women have been buried with a cross or Star of David on their grave. There is only one that died on a cross for our sins and that was JESUS Christ. That is why America has been known from the beginning as a Judeo Christian nation.
I won't take issue with the prayer situation since plenty of people are already debating that ad nauseum. I do, however, have a lot of questions concerning the source text of Christianity, considered by so many to be the sacred and holy "word of God" and thus infallible. I have dozens of inquiries but I'll just start by wondering why it is that the bible says God is not a mortal and therefore doesn't change his mind. This does not match up with another scripture that says God admitted regretting the creation of the human race and decided on a great flood to wipe sin out of existence. Notwithstanding the slew of physical impossibilities regarding how much water was needed and where the heck it all went (receded?), even this wholesale cleansing via worldwide death and destruction (yay!) did not actually achieve the desired result since Christians so readily and fervently argue that the world is full of sin as we speak. Many, many more contentions to follow…
they probably can invoke the name of allah! good grief, this world is in for severe judgement, eliminating God from all walks of life, then the atheist ACLU organization continually steps in to approve anything anti Christian! we need to speak up and defend our religious liberties, our freedom to practice our religion without government interference!
I never knew that there was anything as a secular prayer. Regardless of the Chaplain's faith, he/she should be allowed to pray according to practice. Otherwise, there's no need to have a Chaplain.
Word.
Yes, there is a style of praying when you are in an interfaith environment.
Are you all a bunch of dumb asses? No one is preventing ANY PRIVATE CITIZEN OR GROUP from praying to ANY GOD in ANY FORM at ANY TIME. Your freedom to pray has not been infringed EVER. All that has happened here is a distinctly and exclusively Christian chaplain has been told that he cannot invoke the name of a specific deity during government sponsored (tax payer paid for) ceremonies. I still wonder why the police department even has a chaplain!
Don't say "funerals" because funerals for fallen officers are private affairs. Some of them may indeed look public, but the family determines that – not the police department.
Now get off the internet and go pray!
We know these things was coming down on us, it is time to be a follower of Jesus for real or not at all. Just quit your job mister Chaplain and send the message to the relevant people. Or is that too radical?
Do not be suprised when these things start happening.
Wonder if other religions are allowed to mention the name of Allah or Mohammed or others. Christians are the target, but scripture tells us we would be and it will get worse before the end arrives.
The Holy Ghost gave me this poem when prayer was being threatened to be taken out of the schools. It's called "SET APART" No one can take away my God given right to pray. They can cut out my tongue and pluck out my eyes, they can break all of my fingers so I can't say it in sign. They can do anything they want to do to me, they can lock me up and throw away the key. Because from the world I've been "SET APART" for the Kingdom of Jesus is inside my heart. By NicoletteJ. Brezger Jones. America look out you aren't messing with a false god. You are messing with Jesus Christ the only begotten son of the Only God.
I LOVE YOU JESUS AND ALWAYS WILL. Nikki
Pray to the moon. There are ancient civilizations there. Maybe the moon will get you through your next crisis.
What part of "prohibit the free exercise thereof" are we not understanding?
I was a police chaplain for eleven years. It never failed that before or after every prayer I said, I was criticized for invoking Jesus' name. I'm a Christian pastor. If you don't want me to invoke Jesus, then don't ask me to pray. I tried to find some way to please my critics (e.g., saying, "I pray in Jesus' name," so that I wasn't presuming their agreement) but could not. And no, I don't believe that saying certain words guarantee the efficacy of prayer. It's just that when the world demands that I keep the name of Jesus out of my prayer, I feel that it is shameful of me to willingly go along. Prayer to God through Jesus Christ is too precious and holy to play games with and censor Jesus out. I'll pray for the police officers privately before I'll give in to prayer censorship. I just kept thinking what I would tell the disciples and other martyrs in heaven when they asked me how I lived for Jesus in this life. Could I tell those who died for Jesus' name that I couldn't take the criticism of those who hated Jesus' name so I had to compromise?
Thank you, Jesus for giving our pastors courage to pray in your name
When did you stop be the police chaplain? Did Sarasota go with this?
Where is the protest I will join you. Do the police officers get a vote in this? How can one person change something that so many want. Where are the rights of those who want it? So mad right now.
I have stopped looking for signs of the end times I'm just waiting on the sound
The sounds have been drowned out by the screams of millions of little boys who are being savagely raped by your clergy….
Ok don't use the name Jesus use his aramaic name or hebrew name YESHUA or where it say's LORD in the king james bible it is YHWH and yes God actually had a name not a title Acts 4:12 say's Neither is salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among, men whereby we must be saved. Just seems like a proper time to start teaching people some history Isaiah 46:10 YHWH declaired the end from the beginning and from the ancient times that are not yet done saying My council shall stand and I will do my pleasure so stand up make a statement for are KING if we don't YESHUA said he can even raise these stones to Abraham.
Tell Pastor Terry Sartain that we love him, and are thankful that he did not compromise the Word of God. Too many pastors & chaplains these days will sell themselves out. I too have been asked to redact the name of Jesus in public prayers, I will never do that. Below is short video I made re the Scriptures on obeying Gods Word over mans law. In this scenario, the pastor/chaplain did the ‘Biblically correct’ thing. If Christians in these end times are to be ‘Biblically correct,’ then they cannot be ‘politically correct.’ http://hi-caliber.blogspot.com/2011/08/law-enforcements-3-most-misunderstood.html.
Tell Pastor Terry Sartain that we love him, and are thankful that he did not compromise the Word of God. Too many pastors & chaplains these days will sell themselves out. I too have been asked to redact the name of Jesus in public prayers, I will never do that. Below is short video I made re the Scriptures on obeying Gods Word over mans law. In this scenario, the pastor/chaplain did the ‘Biblically correct’ thing. If Christians in these end times are to be ‘Biblically correct,’ then they cannot be ‘politically correct.’ http://hi-caliber.blogspot.com/2011/08/law-enforcements-3-most-misunderstood.html
the tea parties are doing the same. shame on them. you remove the name of Jesus and you should not and will not be blessed. http://youtu.be/yqerGPyXg0k
If you were of another faith that would be okay? Where has your constitution gone.. religious freedom in the USA..Yeah right…you[ THE PC lot of Americans have lost the plot and forgot about your history and what your nation was built upon..Go and pray in Jesus Name let them lock you up for it, time to stand up America or are you not allowed to say that even?
There is power in the name of Jesus & Satan wants to stop the use of the only name that brings salvation. In toays world, Christian's are expected to water down representing Christ as to avoid offense. World wants a tailor made religion: a one size fits all.
This is just a failed attempt to remove Jesus from the public square. There is no such thing as a secular prayer. would a Muslim chaplain be prevented from invoking the name Allah…
The entire problem is that people are confusing what the bill of rights to the constitution actually said and the original intent of our founding fathers. James Wilson of Pennsylvania one of my ancestors who is known as being the most learned of all the framers of the constitution. My Aunt Katie (Swanson) Moore had a copy of the original constitution with all the original signers and James Wilson who is an ancestor from my Great Grandma Rettie (Templin) Swanson. He was from Scotland originally. He was a lawyer and also a Presbyterian minister. According to my ancestor James Wilson original signer of the constitution and an original justice of the supreme court(1789-1800), the first part of the first amendment which plainly states that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Hmmm! Simple terms it says that Congress isn't allowed to make any laws whatsoever that concerns the establishment of relgion. In other words, the congressmen can't pass a law saying hey US citizen Jane and John, you must attend my church that worships frogs and demand that all US citizens join the frog church or Baptist Church or any type of law that establishes a state run religion. Most people are on board with this. However, it also goes on to say that Congress can't pass any laws prohibiting the free exercise thereof either. Some people aren't always on board with that concept but it is what the constitution says. So what would one normal US citizen that is a plain thinker conclude about the Congress can't pass any laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion that would include any type of relgion be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. Well, here is my ancestors views humble view, "Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine…..Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed these two sciences run into each other. I do believe that the Charlotte/Mecklinberg Police Department are breaking the law by preventing Mr. Sartain and others from freely exerising their religious believes. Why must prayers be secular? Why does a polce department which Christians who do have the right to express their religious views freely as well as nonChristians pay taxes have a right to refuse. I don't see why before any prayer of any sort secular Christian or whatever it is, for those wanting to exercise their relgious faith which is guaranteed in our bill of rights ask if there is anyone who is offended or feels uneasy with the prayer why they can't go out of the room if it offends them so much or simply use the good manners and use the silence to rest. Everyone preaches tolerance but apparently Jesus Christ isn't tolerated by the Charlotte-Mecklinburg police department now. Stand up, Christians for your faith. Don't let anyone keep you from praying or speaking the name of Jesus Christ! I shall say his name for the rest of my life and if you are offended byJesus Christ, then keep your mouth silent or you will greatly offend me. No one is going to take away my rights as a US citizen that many of my ancestors fought and died. If you want to know who I think represents freedom and the law at its best take a look at Jesus Christ. He didn't come to destory the law but to fulfill the law. Never let anyone make you cower in fear and keep you from praising Jesus Christ!
wonderfully said
Christians are taxpayers too! What about our rights to freely exercise our belief! I'm not stopping a non believer from leaving or not participating, that is their business. How dare anyone not allow me my rights. Not only does that infringe on my freedom of religion not "freedom from religion" as many inaccurately state, but it also infringes upon my freedom of speech rights when I can't pray in the name of Jesus Christ. If you want to pray in the name of Justin Bieber, Hannah Montana, or whoever go ahead. If you want to worship a rock, that is up to you. If you want to worship no one that is your right. Where is the tolerance here? Where is the rights of the Christian in the United States? You may try to silence some of us but I'm here to pray in the name of Jesus Christ right now. If it offends you, I'm sad for you. And for all atheists and non-believers, I pray for you to learn to truly be tolerant as you claim you are.
Nudists are taxpayers too. What about their right to freely express their belief?
How dare you not allow people run around naked at playgrounds…
See how that works?
Probably not, and that's the problem…
Mr. Aubrey, it is the law of your locality in which you live and the state in which you live in that dictates your laws on nudity, not me! I am speaking of my believe as a Christian being denied my right to express my belief through prayer in the public. Non-believers have a right to express their non-belief through their spokesmen which is the ACLU. If they are offended, they aren't required to participate. No one forces anyone to pray and worship in a public place. God made every creation of His with the freedom to choose to pray or not to pray. I do see how that works, Mr. Aubrey and it is your attempt to compare nudists to Christians when clearly there isn't a comparison because in the nudist religion if there is such a thing, you don't pray in the name of anyone specific, but obviously Christians pray in the name of Jesus Christ! Thus, it gets the ACLU all hot and bothered trying to restrict the 1st amendment rights of Christians. No one makes nonbelievers participate but the ACLU has single handedly been allowed by the Supreme Court and the so-called politically correct to scare local school boards, all local governments from displaying anything with Christian symbols, historical Christianity, well you can try to clamp and silence Christians but the more you do, the louder and louder Christians will exercise their right to worship Jesus Christ, and other world religions worship their gods. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how they must worship but yet it is apparent that there are some non-believers, and the ACLU who wants to limit my ability to freely exercise my believes as a Christian. I am proud that Pastor Sartain stood for Jesus and despite having to take His name off of voluntary prayers in the future for the Charlotte-Mecklinburg Police Department meetings. It is sad that a minority is trying to infringe upon the rights of believers. No one but no one will stop me from preaching in Jesus' name. The last time I looked, I live in the United States and not Communist China. Wake up, Christian brothers and sisters. Are you going to allow the ACLU and others dictate to Christians that they can't pray in the name of Jesus? How ridiculous! I thought when our Founding Father's came to America, they were escaping being told by the British government what religion to believe and who to pray too. The ACLU and non-believers tried to stop Pastor Terry Sartain but I think it is time for all Christians to say no more and draw our own line in the sand. If it offends the ACLU and non-believers that I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, keep on reading. I pray that in the name of Jesus Christ, that Christians speak up and be heard. You are taxpayers and have the right to worship and pray in the name of Jesus Christ. I know and have relatives who do pray in Jesus name in many different localities around the country where I praise Jesus Christ that the ACLU hasn't discovered and tried to sue these places which is why I refuse to give specifics.because Satan uses the ACLU as his puppet to stifle Christian worship and expression. I pray that Christians wake up and take a public stand for being a follower of Jesus Christ! Jesus acknowledged me before God so I proudly acknowledge my Savior before the world wide web. I will do no less till the day I die!
It all come down to "LEAVE ME ALONE" and I'll leave you along, apparently some people can't do this. As Danielle Lee Daly said: "The problem is the majority has allowed a few people to bully them into getting their way, all in the name of "fair"."
It all come down to "LEAVE ME ALONE" and I'll leave you along, apparently some people can't do this. As Danielle Lee Daly said: "The problem is the majority has allowed a few people to bully them into getting their way, all in the name of "fair"."
I guess the chaplains will have to answer the ancient but simple question, "Whom will you serve." The first Caesar believed himself a god, so, chaplain, if Jesus is God, serve Him. If Caesar is god, let Caesar bless himself. FredKapelski!@msn.com
Very Sad the people that run our lives !!!!!!!!!
not exactly like, but I agree with you Donnie!
Isn't that like asking a doctor to quit practicing medicine?
My fear is that if the current administration is relected…more moral degradation, and more unemployment spreading. I cant in good faith stomach voting for Romney knowing hes a Mormon…nor Obama knowing hes an antichrist. But who is the lessor of 2 evils…only God knows but probally Romney?
acrually…a Mormon is an antichrist. So, I'll just stay home or write in someone on ballot to make a point that I cannot be bought.
p.s. 2-Because of much 'mis-information' that may label my dislike of Mormon as 'hate'…I'll be glad to share much information that explains how they believe in another jesus & are indeed a cult cloaked in much darkness.
Wow, it's very interesting how those who profess to follow Jesus are the ones throwing insults and name-calling. Some of you aren't doing Christianity any favors.
You can invoke the name of Barrack as the son of Allah starting on January 20, 2013 if you don't get out and vote and often.
It is satan work to confused people from truth….We are in the battle field of Good and evil..We pray in the name of Jesus Christ Our Redeemer…Now and Forever.