Apr 30, 2012
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Parents and conservative leaders are expressing fierce outrage after sex columnist and gay rights advocate Dan Savage unleashed a profanity-laced tirade against the Bible and Christian teenagers at a national high school journalism conference.
“Dan Savage is a bully,” said Phillip Naman, the father of two children who attended the journalism conference sponsored by the National Scholastic Press Association and the Journalism Education Association. “When you are attacking somebody for their character, for their beliefs – that’s abuse. Dan Savage was abusing the children in a bullying fashion.”
Naman’s son, Jake, was one of the first students to walk out of auditorium when Savage began berating the Bible.
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“We can learn to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about gay people — the same way we have learned to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstration about virginity about masturbation,” Savage told the young students. “We ignore bullshit in the Bible about all sorts of things.”
Savage is the founder of the “It Gets Better” anti-bullying program. He’s been a guest at the White House and President Obama even recorded a video segment for the anti-bullying campaign.
He later called students who walked out of the speech “pansy-assed.”
“You can tell the Bible guys in the hall they can come back now because I’m done beating up the Bible,” he said. “It’s funny as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-assed people react when you push back.’
Naman said Savage’s behavior was cowardly.
“For a 47-year-old full grown man to say the kinds of things he did to that group – somebody should lose their job,” he said. “It was obvious he had an agenda to push. He wasn’t there to talk about journalism. He was there with an agenda. That is deceitful, wrong and there was absolutely no way the kids should have been subjected to that.”
Robert Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas and an outspoken conservative advocate, was infuriated by the attack on Christian teenagers.
“Inviting Dan Savage to speak to teenagers on ‘anti-bullying’ is like asking a member of the Ku Klux Klan to speak on racial tolerance,” Jeffress told Fox News. “His hostility toward Christians is typical of the hypocritical intolerance of liberals.”
Conservative columnist Michelle Malkin told Fox News Savage has a long history of controversial behavior.
“He had a few marbles missing,” Malkin said. “He is most infamous for breaking into the campaign offices of former GOP president candidate and social conservative Gary Bauer – and licking the door knobs of the office – because he happened to be sick and wanted to infect them with his cold virus.”
“Right there you know this is not someone you should be sending into public schools to talk with children about things like bullying,” she said.
In a 2010 interview with Newsweek, Savage said, “F*** John McCain.” He also called Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia a “c***sucker.” According to the Big Government website, Savage stated that he wanted to “f*** the s**t” out of then-presidential candidate Rick Santorum. That incident occureed on an episode of Real Time with Bill Maher.
So who thought it would be a good idea for someone with that background to address high school students?
The NSPA and the JEA did not return calls seeking comment about why Savage was invited to speak and who was responsible for the invitation.
“The anti-Christian bigotry of the activist left has really been exposed,” Malkin said. “I can’t fathom a group like that – bringing someone (like Savage) before student journalists.”
Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, agreed and called Savage a “disciple of division and intolerance.”
“It’s beyond irresponsible,” Perkins told Fox News. “This is signing on to a one-sided hate-filled debate that is taking place where Dan Savage is given entrance to schools across America to belittle people who simply disagree with him.”
Malkin said she was most impressed by how the Christian students conducted themselves during Savage’s tirade.
“I think what these kids did was rather courageous,” she said. “They helped call attention to the incivility and indecency of Dan Savage – which has gone on too long.”
She said it was impressive considering how some liberals treat conservative speakers on university campuses.
“It was a much better decision than we see at your average college campus where the kids who disagree with conservative speakers will not just turn around quietly and leave – but will stand there and try to obstruct the free speech of conservative speakers either by hurling things at them, shouting them down and acting like a complete lynch mob,” Malkin said.
Naman said his son was not trying to cause trouble by leaving the speech.
“We were attacked,” he said. “And when that happens you have to stand up for your faith. As a Christian you have to stand up and say it’s important.”
His wife, Mary, said the attack on her children was sad.
“I think that he missed the whole point of Christianity,” she told Fox News. “That saddens me. Did he do something wrong, did he hurt people – I think he did. That’s just bullying.”
Savage apologized for using the word “pansy-assed.”
“My use of ‘pansy-assed’ was insulting, it was name-calling and it was wrong,” he wrote on his website. “And I apologize for saying it.”
But he stood by his comments about the Bible.
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While I would certanly not question this "man's" expertise in unbridled lust, he clearly shows his lack of understanding of the Bible and it's message.
Inviting Dan Savage to speak about bullying is akin to inviting Heinrich Himmler to speak on Judaism. He can't rise above his natural tendency to hate those who disagree with him.
Ephesians says that the world hates the Bible because it exposes their wicked ways…Evil doesn't like being exposed….hats off to those who quietly turned their backs on Savage (ultimately Satan) and walked out on a speech that wasn't worth the time it took him to ramble. People have much better things to do then listen to someone misquote a book he obviously knows nothing about!
Did you notice, he didn't mention 'turning the other cheek', so disregard that and hit both his cheeks(face).
Did you notice, he didn't mention 'turning the other cheek', so disregard that and hit both his cheeks(face).
While the setting was horrible and Mr. Savage should not have used this forum for his statements (and never should have resorted to name-calling) his larger points are worth asking. Why as Christians (and I am one) do we choose to ignore certain things in the Bible and call them "outdated" or "out of touch" but on this one issue we refuse to come to the same conclusion. No one truly believes that premarital sex by women should result in their being killed nor that women are the property of men (which is a common theme in many of the books). I just wish we didn't refuse to see common sense on this one issue when we apparently have been willing to do so on so many others.
While the setting was horrible and Mr. Savage should not have used this forum for his statements (and never should have resorted to name-calling) his larger points are worth asking. Why as Christians (and I am one) do we choose to ignore certain things in the Bible and call them "outdated" or "out of touch" but on this one issue we refuse to come to the same conclusion. No one truly believes that premarital sex by women should result in their being killed nor that women are the property of men (which is a common theme in many of the books). I just wish we didn't refuse to see common sense on this one issue when we apparently have been willing to do so on so many others.
This man set the bullying issue back about 20 years with his assnine comments and his limp wristed excuse for an apology!
This man set the bullying issue back about 20 years with his assnine comments and his limp wristed excuse for an apology!
Both journalism associations feigned distancing themselves (with an identical written response) a tiny bit from Dan Savage, but in reality just used their response to his childish tirade to promote the idea that those who practice sexual perversion should not be criticized either. Don't fall into the trap of begging for an apology from someone for speaking their mind, especially by invitation. It's the journalism associations themselves, in this case, that knew exactly what would happen by giving this pervert a microphone. Parents, heed the warning, take your kids out of these spineless associations.
Funny how not one of his antagonists can actually attack his argument; that followers of the book will selectively ignore the bible passages that they don't want to adhere to and turn around and cite the bible to justify discrimination. Defending ignorance and hypocrisy by walking out isn't defending the holy text, its defending those who use it to discriminate.
The BIBLE says DO UNTO OTHERS as you would have them DO UNTO YOU .
I suppose that applies not only to Mr Savage but also to those who would use the bible to justify discrimination against gays.
Shai Segall , the Bible says we should ALL love one another . We don't have to agree on everything . If I think Homosexuality is wrong , it doesn't mean I hate Homosexuals , I don't .
Shai Segall , the Bible says we should ALL love one another . We don't have to agree on everything . If I think Homosexuality is wrong , it doesn't mean I hate Homosexuals , I don't .
Ok, great we're in agreement then. That being the case the only real barriers to equality that still exist in law are in regards to marriage and employment discrimination, once these barriers to equality are eliminated there will be little left to disagree about and we can all move on.
Someone should ask Savage if his ahole has rotted out yet. Tell the kids the truth!
What a hatemonger this guy is! He and those who cheered him on are typical of verbal bullies, but much worse because he should know better. He wasn't "defending himself" (he wasn't being attacked by anyone). He was "getting even" by vilifying the religion of those he feels bullied him in the past, purposely trying to hurt those in the audience who follow the same religion, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those individuals themselves.
What a hatemonger this guy is! He and those who cheered him on are typical of verbal bullies, but much worse because he should know better. He wasn't "defending himself" (he wasn't being attacked by anyone). He was "getting even" by vilifying the religion of those he feels bullied him in the past, purposely trying to hurt those in the audience who follow the same religion, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those individuals themselves.
I don't understand the mindset of attacking religion simply because you don't believe. I don';t care what anyone believes, but I am not going around insulting and attacking people for their beliefs. Dan Savage needs to learn to keep his insulting opinions to himself!
I don't understand the mindset of attacking religion simply because you don't believe. I don';t care what anyone believes, but I am not going around insulting and attacking people for their beliefs. Dan Savage needs to learn to keep his insulting opinions to himself!
In this case I blame the people who invited him and not the messenger. They knew what this guy was about and invited him for this very reason. Heads should role but they won't. If it was an invited Chrisitan speaker who got up and ranted how gays will burn in hell all hands would be on deck from the left for the firing of the inviters. I hate to say this but, it is time for conservatives to get down and dirty like the left when it comes to situations like this. We can protest just as loud as they can and make things happen.
I'm sure the President has already called Phillip Naman to encourage him for standing up and walking out, just like he called Sandra Fluke, right? Maybe not since he recorded a message for Savage's "Anti-Bullying" campaign. Give me a break.
The Stop Bullying campaign is a good idea – Savage just shouldn't have called people who walked out or whatever "pansy-ass."
Jesus warned us that we would be persecuted for our beliefs. He also warned us that we would be in the minority, not that majority. Standing up and walking away from this man and his ugly hatred was very brave. The students who left were in the minority, and exposed themselves to further ridicule, not only at the hands of this aptly named Savage, for that is what he did, is savage a group of teenagers, but at the hands of the majority of their peers, who were applauding the brutish things he said. They knew they would reveal themselves as Christians by standing up for what they believed in and walking away without engaging him, and they did it anyway.
Jesus warned us that we would be persecuted for our beliefs. He also warned us that we would be in the minority, not that majority. Standing up and walking away from this man and his ugly hatred was very brave. The students who left were in the minority, and exposed themselves to further ridicule, not only at the hands of this aptly named Savage, for that is what he did, is savage a group of teenagers, but at the hands of the majority of their peers, who were applauding the brutish things he said. They knew they would reveal themselves as Christians by standing up for what they believed in and walking away without engaging him, and they did it anyway.
Why are the parents of this these children not looking him up personally.
I dare you to look me up personally, Internet tough guy.
Christopher Nicholson Is this all you do tough guy..hang out on this thread??? Got a job…naw you work for some liberal group like media matters to try disrupt conservative posts. HAVE you noticed that you are VERY unpopular and very UNLIKED… and there are only maybe 3 of you media matters types posting in favor of that BULLY SAVAGE??? YOU ARE ALMOST ALONE…… and when we need to take down the commies, we will KNOW exactly where to look….. UNDER THE DIRTEST ROCKS!
Christopher Nicholson OK
Christopher Nicholson .. Talk about a key board coward, look in the mirror. I read your other posts.. Wow you are a piece of work. If this happened in our school, my children there, He and the people who brought him in would know me personally.How that went would be up to them. You have know ideal.
Why are the parents of this these children not looking him up personally.
These fools wouldn't get bullied if they would stop acting like Girls instead of Men.
Gays and Child molesters are one and the same!
@Randy Cowger – No pedophiles and homosexuals are not even remotely the same thing. Do some research before you post things you know nothing about.
Pitiful lowlife hypocritthat has repressed mommy issues, maybe an elctra complex…the Quran esposes much of the same virtues as the Bible, I'd love to see him go off on a tirade with that, piece of human waste….maybe he would definitly have a spiritual awakening as the first stone bashes into his head…
You really have to find a real news outlet! These guys just suck! It really didn't bother me. He could use a better, more mature language. Lot's of people are questioning religions leaders and foundations. Man is really the problem religion didn't seem to take into account. This is why I remain as independent as possible. Join me and together we can overthrow the emperor and rule the galaxy!….oops wrong speech. Let's sell off all our shit and retire on a Costa Rica beach! Roll out of our grass huts at the crack of noon. Trek out to the lawn chairs and order some drinks! Every freakin day!
Pitiful lowlife hypocritthat has repressed mommy issues, maybe an elctra complex…the Quran esposes much of the same virtues as the Bible, I'd love to see him go off on a tirade with that, piece of human waste….maybe he would definitly have a spiritual awakening as the first stone bashes into his head…
I have just read a small amount of the comments posted. Wow, I can't put my words together as scathingly or intellegently as the majority of those who have posted, nor do I wish to. So I won't try, however I will say, as a person who follows Christ, and the commandments of my Lord & savior, that we as "Christians" can not hold those who do not have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ to the same standards we ourselves hold. This does not keep me from feeling outrage at Mr. Savages' comments, and deep sadness for the lack of true understanding, yet it does help me to love my "enemy" and have the sence to keep from arguing with those who are confounded by the Word of God.
Now for Mr. Savage, being that he has never said a thing that was loving or kind to Chirstians in general, I would NEVER willingly, or with knowledge allow my child to attend a meeting where he was speaking. Should he have said those things? No. Did he have the free speech to do so? yes. *Ref. The DOORS: Sept. 17, 1967, Ed Sullivan Show*.
That being the case parents should be more vigilant about who they allow to speak to their children. They screen the movies they are going to watch, they screen the music they listen to, they SHOULD screen the speakers they let their children listen/talk to.
That being said, those children & parents who got up to leave from the verbal beating they/the Bible were taking had every right to do so & I believe they did represent the body of Christ well. They did not fight back with fists & words, they simply excersized their right to not listen to what was being hurtled at them. They showed great love by not lowering themselves to a level that others would have taken & run with.
We as Christians must remember to love & pray for those who have no understanding or have been given over to a reprobate mind.
"The real offense is the Gospel itself. The Bible says that Jesus and His sin-conquering work on the cross are a “stone of stumbling and a rock of offense” (1 Peter 2:8, NKJV). Politically correct people hate the Name of Jesus. They despise the Gospel. They don’t want to be reminded of their sin or their need for a Savior. They can’t handle the Truth." ~Franklin Graham.
~Matt 11:16~
What else would you expect from a Gay pervert.
What else would you expect from a Gay pervert.
Oh look – a TROLL! How do you know he's a "pervert?"
More and more of this will begin to happen in the near future. You as Christians will wake up and find another cross pulled from a memorial , Another tradition lost and you will ask yourselves "How did this happen"? It happens because YOU allowed it to happen. YOU went back to watching NBC after they omitted the word God from the pledge. YOU that not only bought a "Holiday" tree you chose to patronize the very store that removed all references to "Christ-mas". This idiot should have been physically removed from the stage and his captive audiance of young adults released from hearing his vulgar ridden message. Where are Gods Lions? This is a message that we as Christians do not like to hear because it forces us to review our own actions when it comes to protecting our way of life and the lives of our children.
@Jim Jackson A few points:
- The pledge NEVER ORIGINALLY had the words "under God" in it. It also used to have a salute in it but during WWII, FDR changed it to hand over heart because it looked too much like the Nazi salute. It was also shorter. So not sure why people bring up the Pledge. It was never supposed to have "god" in it – that was added in the 50s.
- Cross pulled from memorial – Well that's stupid for the most part. I don't know why people think that's offensive especially if it's been there almost a century.
- The Christmas tree is a tradition that Christians stole from pagans. (Along with a LOT of other traditions and the date of Christmas).
Are you serious? Where are "god's lions?" It's statements like that which make people look at Christians as a whole as crazy zealots. No one was "FORCED" to attend that presentation – as evidenced by them walking out. There were permission slips given out – obviously parents signed it without knowing what was going on. That's their fault – not his.
Kelly Calder
Soooo as a parent you sign a permission slip for your child to attend a anti-bully lecture and your child is tortured by a angry anti-Christian zealot. Get real
The Christmas tree was a American tradition , it held no real status as a religous symbol. Angry people such as yourself attacked it as a symbol just as they are doing with the crosses on memorials. Congradulations , It hold no real meaning at all now. You have destroyed a truly beutiful American tradition.
Jim Jackson "Tortured?" Really? Tortured is a bit of a stretch.
First off when I have kids, I will expose them to all beliefs and all cultures and THEY can choose what they want to believe. If they came home from school and said they were offended by something a presenter or anyone said, I'd talk to them, then talk to the school and see what happened. There are three sides to every story: Yours, the other guy and the truth.
Actually the use of trees was a pagan tradition that resembled life. They also used palm leaves in some beliefs. Just look it up.
Are you serious?!?! "Angry people" like me? I could care less if you call it a Christmas tree. Just know where the tradition came from. I don't care about crosses at memorials. For goodness sake I said it was stupid to remove crosses from a memorial – did you not read that? It's right above.
Oh geez – no one said you can't have a Christmas tree and call it that. Over-dramatic much? Give me a break.
American tradition? Puritans actually did ban Christmas trees at one time so it wasn't completely American. You know what America's traditions consist of? MULTIPLE cultures mixed together. Not just one.
Kelly Calder
step by step
I dont believe you grasp the concept that these children were yes tortured. They were told to sit and listen by authority figures to a speaker tear at their beliefs and belittle them in front of their peers.
"First off when I have kids, I will expose them to all beliefs and all cultures and THEY can choose what they want to believe."
You miss the point…..sigh Again. If YOUR child decides on a gay lifestyle would you aprove of school officials putting them in a room with a speaker who was so ugly towards them they broke down in tears? ooooh I remember what you said earlier…
" There were permission slips given out – obviously parents signed it without knowing what was going on. That's their fault – not his." Your gunna make one hell of a parent.
" There are three sides to every story"
Really? Unfortunatly not in this case if you watched the video. It was promoted as a anti-bullying seminar to students and parents and was used as a opportunity by the speaker and under the supervision of school officials to bully young Christian kids. Where is the grey area here?
"Actually the use of trees was a pagan tradition that resembled life"
I am speaking of a "Christmas Tree" and the American tradition of "Christmas" The Holiday that was shared by Christians and athiests alike with the invention of Santa Claus. Enough about trees.
Take it easy on the guy, he's obviously never known perfect love. And he will never know it if we can't have mercy on him. He's right about hypocrisy… but it's in the church, not the Bible. Not a good choice to be speaking to youth but we must have mercy and forgiveness for those lost in darkness otherwise they will never see the Light.
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email: logan@studentpress.org.
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One can see from Kelly's comments here and her criticism of Christianity in general that she has a problem with Christianity and has no problem with bigotry toward Christians. She says that the only thing that Savage did wrong was call the people names when they left. That's ridiculous. Anyone with a basic understanding of Christianity knows that it is a religion based upon the bible, so when Savage started attacking the Bible and criticizing it, any honest person would have seen that as an attack on Christianity. Of course, Kelly would have no problem with this as you can see from her posts here because she has a problem with the God of Christianity wholly and separately from anything to do with sexuality.
In the end, the unfortunate result is that the whole anti-bullying campaign will be seen as nothing more than an attack on the Christian religion. Because of this, people that are really bullied, even kids who identify themselves as homosexuals, will slip through the cracks because the anti-bullying campaign will have been hijacked by those such as kelly who just want to use it to further their bigoted views of the Christian religion.
Food for that, kelly. The christian position on sexuality has been around for several thousand years. I'm sure you think very highly of your opinion, but the idea that you are going to cause people to reject the bible who have stuck with it through torture and martyrdom, just because you call them names, is ludicrous. Considering Jesus himself defined marriage as between a man and a woman, you are delusional to think that Christians will throw Jesus under the bus just to avoid you calling them names and ridiculing them.
@David Cougle – You're gonna call me out like that huh? I don't know how many times I have to say I am not a bigot toward Christianity. I said I do not have a problem with the RELIGION. I have a problem with the PEOPLE who CLAIM to follow it lol. So if you can't understand what I have a problem with – I don't know how else to explain it to you. I find it funny you couldn't address your issues to me one on one via message like an adult but okay. I'll do this.
Yes I know Christianity is based on the Bible. Got it. That does NOT mean it's RIGHT!!!! YOU can believe in the Bible all you want. BUT what Savage said was that SOME CHRISTIANS ARE HYPOCRITES BECAUSE THEY WILL CHOOSE VERSES FROM THE BIBLE TO SUPPORT ABUSING HOMOSEXUALS!!! It's just like the people who use the Bible to support bombing abortion clinics. It's the same thing as Muslim extremists using the Quran to justify terrorist attacks. THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG!! How often do I have to say it's the PEOPLE I and others have issue with? So he didn't attack Christianity. He attacked the people who USE that religion for THEIR agenda. That is exactly what he said.
I have a problem with WHATEVER god is out there. You do realize it's the same god for every religion (and that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the Abrahamic religions and believe a lot of the same things just the differences in the Messiah or Prophet or lack thereof). I don't know what you mean by "separate from anything to do with sexuality." I will never follow a religion again that will use a book to justify doing vile and evil things to people based on something they don't choose. I was raised Catholic – that could explain my bitterness toward religion.
I really don't think that the anti-bullying campaign will be seen as an "attack" on Christian religion. If you want to see an attack on Christian religion – go to these countries where Christians are actually KILLED for their belief. You American Christians have it really easy compared to that.
I don't have any "idea" to "cause people to reject the Bible." If what I say causes someone to turn away from Christianity, they obviously weren't a very strong believer. I have never let anyone deter me from what I believe in.
WHO did I call "names?" The people who are truly hypocrites? I said I know plenty of REAL Christians. Man you people will just zoom in on the things you WANT to read and not what is written.
Oh so there's a Book of Jesus in the Bible? Really? I haven't seen it. Because everything in the Bible is written from the PERSPECTIVE OF OTHER PEOPLE. THAT is one big reason I don't believe in it. It was written YEARS after Jesus died, lots of information was left out, etc, etc.
"Throw Jesus under the bus?" What are you talking about? I guarantee you that if Jesus came back today and saw what his teachings turned into – he would be ASHAMED. He would be saddened at all the things done in his name. Until I read something that is proven to come from Jesus – the "definition of marriage" was written by his apostles or the church or other people. Do you really think Jesus would care if two people, fully committed to each other and consenting adults got married? Same-gender marriages have existed for many, many years in many cultures by the way.
Thanks for that "food for thought" but it didn't sit well.
Also another thought – if you are so convinced that what you believe is right – and that Christianity is "the way" why does it matter what I or anyone else says about it? Believe what you want man, I don't care. It just seems odd how Christians immediately pounce when someone disagrees with their religion.
Kelly Calder You're a bigot toward Christianity. You don't become less of one by claiming you are not. Did you know any of the Christians that were at that speech? Of course not, but you know they were christian, which justifies it. I saw in your other posts where you attacked the god of the bible, yet then you expect people here to believe that you don't have an issue with Christianity itself.
Christians at the event were ridiculed for their beliefs in the bible, the BASIS for the christian religion, and were further ridiculed for not wanting to sit there and be attacked. The facts indicate that the bullying was to the point where it drove some of the young girls there to tears because of how they were singled out and mocked for their beliefs.
You are bigoted toward Christians and Christianity, no matter how much you deny it. The massive chip on your shoulder is apparent to everyone here but you.
The thing is, it's FINE for you to disagree with Christianity. You cannot, however, deny that you have a massive chip on your shoulder and the fact that you are being hypocritical regarding bullying, largely because of your personal prejudices and biases.
David Cougle How's the view from that Ivory Tower?
I don't have an issue with Christianity itself but you know what it doesn't matter what you think. I know when you read what I write you just see "blah blah blah she hates Christians blah blah blah."
I've actually had conversations with real Christians who don't attack me and call me names. I did not see any of those girls cry. They were all laughing like it was a big joke.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder. If ANYONE does, it's you. I'm not a hypocrite on bullying you just refuse to actually comprehend what I wrote or even read it. So believe what you want, I'll believe what I want.
Kelly Calder I think I understand what you are saying now. You are OK with "christians" and "christianity" as long as it's the kind of "christian" and "christianity' that you approve of, irregardless of whether or not it's based on actual christianity, the bible, or Jesus himself. So, as long as people are willing to throw out portions of the bible that you disagree with, you're A-OK with it.
The biblical view of sexuality that savage attacked has been the Christian view, and the jewish view prior to that, for thousands of years. I'm sort of shocked that you don't know that.
Kelly Calder yes, "immediately pounce." It's a pure emotional reaction, nothing else. It's convenient that everyone that disagrees with you "immediately pounces" when someone disagrees with their religion.
My original point is that the reason you think savage was acting appropriately is because you're a bigot toward Christians and Christianity in general. The more you talk, the more you make that clear.
You are switching the debate to whether or not christianity is the truth. This is making my point, that you have an issue with christianity. The problem is, you're allowing that to color your perspective of what savage did. He ridiculed children for their beliefs. That's bullying.
David Cougle I saw people just attack this guy at work who said he was an atheist. The second it left his lips, they were just all over him like he had something wrong with him for being an atheist. So he can't have that viewpoint but they can have theirs? THAT is what ticks me off.
OMG I do not have an issue with the religion. I don't believe it as a truth but you can. I have an issue with people abusing it.
This is going nowhere because you are just reading what you want to and not what I wrote. I don't care what you think. Good day.
David Cougle Um no – I approve of real Christians. Not hypocrites. You are just ridiculous. So just because someone has had a view for thousands of years means it's true? Lol okay believe that if you want.
Kelly Calder You admitted you had a chip on your shoulder due to your bitterness toward the catholic church.
" I approve of real Christians. Not hypocrites" – nice, so Kelly has appointed herself the final authority on Christianity. She gets to decide who is and is not a real Christian.
Everyone, I have an announcement. I have seen the light. As long as we adopt the version of Christianity that Savage and Kelly find acceptable, we will be seen as "real Christians" and will not be ridiculed or attacked.
So Kelly, can you set up a website or something to decide which portions of the bible we can and cannot accept, so that we know how to be real christians?
David Cougle Is that chip on your shoulder heavy? You act lik you are so perfect and better than me. You're not.
Sarcasm isn't lost on me either. You don't have to agree with me. Get over yourself. Again – if you are so convinced of your faith and that it's true – who cares what I or anyone else says about it? Just do what others do "That's what you believe then that's what you believe." Lol obviously you have some issues if you keep going on and on about this.
You believe – yay for you!! Have fun with that.
Kelly Calder Sorry, I'm not biting. You are the one here who thinks you have the right to decide who is and is not a Christian. You have repeatedly attacked people for their beliefs and called people hypocrites. Amazingly, you feel comfortable calling the people that savage attacked hypocrites, although you don't know any of them. And, of course, the girls who were crying, they are bad people too.
You're a bigot. Everyone has a "reason" that they are a bigot, but it's bigotry nonetheless. It's sad that the whole bullying thing is being hijacked by people who seem to be bigots toward Christianity, because the end result will be that it will be viewed more through that lens than whether or not someone was bullied.
David Cougle Again you have a problem with reading comprehension. I never said the people who walked out were hypocrites – just who he was calling hypocrites. But you only want to read what you want to read.
I don't recall saying that anyone crying (no one was though if you watch the video unless they laughed so hard they cried) was a "bad" person.
I'm not a bigot but you can think that. Agree to disagree because you just keep saying the same crap over and over again and ignore everything I say. You just focus in on what you want to think I say.
Oh I forgot – poor Christians in America. You're sooo bullied and attacked soo much. You fear your life every time you leave the house. You can't worship at church. You can't practice your faith..oh wait. That's not American Christians…
Kelly Calder So would hypocrites be all those who disagree with you and savage about the bible's view on sexuality?
Considering a lot of my legal work is assisting persecuted Christians overseas, you might want to reconsider lecturing me about that. But your point is kind of scary. It's OK for savage to bully the Christians in terms of ridiculing and calling them names, because other christians overseas are getting much worse. Hmm.
In the end, everyone here knows what you are trying to say. You and savage are ok with people calling themselves Christians as long as it's the kind of "christians" that you approve of.
Bigotry, pure and simple.
Actually, from what you have been saying here, according to you and probably Savage, people cannot be "real Christians" if they accept the biblical view of sexuality.
That being said, can you tell us what else we must do to be "real christians?"
David Cougle OMG I get it. You're awesome because you're Christian. Geez move on already.
Kelly Calder Here's a question for you. Can you be a "real christian" and believe what the bible says about sexuality?
Kelly Calder Can someone be a "real christian" if they believe what the bible says about sexuality?
Kelly Calder Looks like you can't define a "real christian" for us when called on it. Not surprising. BTW, by your logic, Christians in America have no right to complain when they are harassed in this way because Christians in other parts of the world actually are physically persecuted in a much more harsh way, kept from worshiping, etc. Ok, I'll bite. By that logic, since homosexuals in other parts of the world are tortured and killed for their homosexuality, does that mean they can't complain about being bullied in America, since it's not nearly as bad?
Can't have it both ways.
Kelly Calder Kelly Calder Looks like you can't define a "real christian" for us when called on it. Not surprising. BTW, by your logic, Christians in America have no right to complain when they are harassed in this way because Christians in other parts of the world actually are physically persecuted in a much more harsh way, kept from worshiping, etc. Ok, I'll bite. By that logic, since homosexuals in other parts of the world are tortured and killed for their homosexuality, does that mean they can't complain about being bullied in America, since it's not nearly as bad?
Can't have it both ways.
David Cougle Obviously you can't tell when someone is ignoring you – how'd that go for you in high school?
I can tell you I know homosexuals who are also Christian – so what does that tell you about them? Are they real Christians?
Real Christians are people who actually espouse the values of what Jesus taught – who don't judge people based on any characteristics. My dad is a Christian – one of my brothers is a homosexual. I have never, ever heard him say he loves him but not his "sin" of homosexuality. He accepts his son for who he is and never says he hates that he is homosexual. All he has said is he doesn't care as long as all of his children are happy – he said he doesn't understand it because he's not homosexual and it's not for him. But he doesn't judge people on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, nationality, etc.
Now I'm really getting tired of this because you are going to believe what you want – which is fine. I will believe what I want. I know what you're trying to do because it's common of your type of Christian or whatever you are. You're trying to get under my skin and needle around to stir me up. Lol it won't work. All you're doing is coming off as some really weird guy who has nothing better to do but argue on Facebook. People who constantly argue on the Internet…well here's a flowchart for you. Maybe it can help you in this instance or in the future:
http://laughingsquid.com/comic-flowchart-on-how-to-deal-with-internet-arguments/
This has gotten to a point where it's just useless to continue. If you want to, fine. Have at it. I've got to go to work and accomplish something for the day. Maybe you should try it.
Kelly Calder What did Jesus teach? How do we know what Jesus taught, other than what's in the bible,which you've been spending a lot of time discrediting? The same bible where Christians see that Jesus taught that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that any sexual intercourse outside of a heterosexual marriage is sinful, or was Jesus a hypocrite then? Was Jesus a hypocrite when he said only through being a born again Christian, can anyone enter heaven?
Your argument is schizophrenic and incomprehensible. On one hand you are arguing that the bible is false and that hypocrites believe what it teaches about such things as sexuality, and then you start saying true Christians believe what Jesus taught, which is …. amazingly, in the bible! Do you even know what you believe?
You have a serious problem with bigotry, plain and simple. You've been running around calling people hypocrites and deciding who is and is not a Christian, yet you have the nerve of claiming other people are holier than thou.
Kelly Calder Anyone can see from your reply that you've created your own Jesus, your own god, completely and separately apart from the bible. You've made an idol in your own image and called it Jesus, although he has no bearing, at all, to the historical and biblical Jesus. Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else. He talked about sin and judgment repeatedly. He said he was the only way to heaven, through being born again. All of this is what Jesus "espoused." What did he say after the woman was not stoned? "Go and sin no more." Jn 8:11. The bible repeatedly said that Jesus came to deal with the issue of sin, yet you are claiming that sin is not important. Really? It's not important, yet Jesus came, lived a perfect life for 33 years and died a horrible death, for something so unimportant?
You can't have it both ways. You can't say you believe in the teachings that Jesus "espoused," which is in the bible, then say that you don't believe in the bible, which has the teachings of Jesus and Paul that go against everything you have said here. If the choices for representing Christ are between your father, who you say thinks sin is not an issue, and Jesus, who came to deal with the issue of sin, I'm going to go with Jesus Christ. If people are interested in converting to the religion of "Kelly's father," then I see your point. If they are interested in the religion of "Christianity," they rely on bible.
David Cougle *Sigh* Is your life that pathetic that you have to consistently reply to this thread? You really must have had some charges pressed against you or something at one time. I feel like you’re one of those guys who couldn’t take a hint when a girl said “no.” No means no man. I do not care what you believe. No my argument is not “schizophrenic and incomprehensible.” YOURS is. You are the only posting – and after this I’m not replying anymore. I only am now because I have12 ½ hours to waste and stay awake for work. You believe what you want. I don’t care. That’s your deal. How many times do I have to say it?
I said I think the Bible is full of it – I never said that people who believe it COULDN’T believe in it. If someone wants to be a Christian fine – but at least read the damn book and know what it says AND do research OUTSIDE the book and find out what you can about Jesus. From what I understand from people who actually know what they’re talking about, he was a compassionate and caring person who actually never intended for his teachings to become what they have. IF he were to come back, he would be ashamed of what it is today. You can’t deny that SOME people – not ALL just some – USE the Bible to do horrible, atrocious things. Just like SOME people use the Quran and maybe even the Torah gets used by Jewish extremists.
LOL – YES I know EXACTLY what I believe. It is not in a book. It is not preached by a priest or a pastor. It is not instructed to me by man. I believe based on what is in my heart and what I feel comfortable with. I don’t have to explain my beliefs to you just as you don’t have to explain them to me. Again, if you are so comfortable with your faith, why are arguing with me? Why are you so offended that I don’t believe in it? Or that Savage and MANY others don’t believe in your faith? Obviously you have some misgivings about because people I know who have true belief in their faith, they don’t get offended when someone doesn’t believe it or says things about it. They don’t attack others who don’t agree. They don’t go on PAGES of diatribes defending their faith. They just shrug their shoulders and say “You’re entitled to your faith or lack of. I’m entitled to mine.” It’s really simple. THOSE Christians I can deal with because they aren’t forcing it on me.
I have NEVER had anyone before you call me a bigot – so that leads me to believe you have no idea what the words means and you’re only saying it because you don’t have an argument. You – have – NOTHING. So you resort to that. I NEVER said anyone is “holier than thou.” There you go again putting words in my name. The people I say are actually Christian aren’t perfect. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE ON THIS PLANET IS PERFECT! No one. YOU act like you’re “holier than thou.” You’re not. So stop acting like you’re so awesome because you say you’re Christian. I DON’T CARE!!! How often must I say it? Well this is the last time. Have your “faith” have your belief and what you THINK it is. It doesn’t affect my life. It doesn’t affect my afterlife either.
I have not created my own Jesus or my own god. Yes you’re right – I have absolutely NO faith in the Bible. It’s just a book of stories. Just like the Quran. Just like the Torah. Just like EVERY OTHER religious text in the world – it’s just stories. It’s not meant to be literal. WHY does it matter to you WHAT I believe??!!! You’re not going to convert me to Christianity or any religion. So why bother?
How in the world do you know Jesus lived a “perfect” life for 33 years? NO ONE knows what his life was like from age 12-30. No one. That’s not in the Bible. How do you know when he was a kid, he didn’t act out? He was human after all. How do you know he didn’t play pranks or do kid stuff? How do you know in his teenage years he didn’t rebel against his mother and stepfather? Or that he didn’t question what he was doing? Or that he didn’t feel the pressure that was put upon him to “save humanity?” You don’t know. You’re not Jesus. No one knows but the Bible has been written to ensure this “divinity” of Jesus but you know what? I would much rather know the MAN he was and what influenced him than this holier than thou shit the Bible puts out. Jesus wasn’t perfect either – why? He was human. In fact, god isn’t perfect. He has made mistakes. So you believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want.
I DON’T BELIEVE THE TEACHINGS JESUS ESPOUSED – I SAID IF SOMEONE IS A CHRISTIAN THEY WOULD BELIEVE IT AND NOT CHERRY PICK BIBLE VERSES. I feel I needed the all caps to get my point across but you will just ignore it like everything else. You aren’t even READING anything I write. You interpret the way YOU want it to be.
No my father said he doesn’t think someone being homosexual is an issue. It’s not an issue. God wouldn’t allow that to happen and allow people to be born that way if he had an issue with it. I think some of you “Christians” are in for a rude awakening when you die. What you think you were doing right, probably wasn’t. Have fun with that and good luck. My father doesn’t have his “own religion” moron. He’s a Christian. That’s what he believes. Also my friend’s brother who is a homosexual also is a Christian. You don’t know what you’re talking about quite honestly.
So again, this is the last time I’m writing. Please do not respond to me on this page. Do not comment toward me, about me or anything regarding me. I’m done with this bullshit. It’s really getting irritating. You need a hobby or a life or get laid or something. I don’t know what will relieve the stress you’re taking out on my posts. I’m not the ONLY one who has said that I don’t agree with Christianity but you’ve zoomed in on me. APPARENTLY you didn’t read that link with the flow chart about Internet arguments. Good luck with your life and hope you find something better to do.
Kelly Calder Good grief, you are all over the map. Personal attacks won't make your argument any stronger. Everything Jesus espoused is in the bible, which is contrary to what you have been saying here. Jesus said that he's the only way that someone can escape hell, through being born again. He also said that marriage is only between one man and one woman. Finally,he made it clear, just as in the rest of the bible, that sexual intercourse is to be between one man and one woman, in marriage. That is what he espoused, and that is what you are at odds with.
No one here is trying to convince you to agree or not agree with Christianity. No one here is trying to convince you to be a Christian(you cannot point to a single thing I have said where I have done either). What we have talked about is your bigotry and hypocrisy when it comes to bullying. You sit around criticizing Christianity, criticizing the God of the bible, calling everyone hypocrites and false Christians who doesn't agree with your idea of Christianity, then having the strange nerve to say others who call you on that as arrogant, etc. You have a right to reject what Christianity teaches, and what the bible teaches, but you certainly do not have a right to tell people that you get to make your own version of Christianity, wholly apart from scripture, and that the only real Christians are those who abide by what you decide. You are not God.
There's no need to cherry pick bible verses when every bible verse related to the subject is clear, including the ones spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Biblical Christianity teaches that all sex outside of heterosexual monogamous marriage is sinful, period. That includes adultery, fornication, and, of course, homosexuality. That will never change, no matter how much you and people like savage attack and bully Christians. You're simply going to have to accept that. Your war is with God himself, as his word is as clear as possible.
Biblical Christianity has stood the test of time. You can't win this fight, no matter how angry you become. Your father is not who we will stand before on the day of judgment. Neither are you, and neither am I.
Just as you cannot tell people how to be Christians, or what to believe, you cannot tell me what to post on facebook. Sorry.
David Cougle http://chzmemeanimals.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/advice-animals-memes-insanity-wolf-religious-posts.jpg
Kelly Calder I'm more interested in you not justifying bullying and being hypocritical about it.
David Cougle I've got 10 1/2 hours to waste. Until you stop responding, I'm going to keep posting these things.
http://chzmemeafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/naughty-memes-religion.jpg
Kelly Calder I think we all understand by now that you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder regarding Christianity. We also understand you have a serious issue with bigotry and intolerance toward people who disagree with you.
Are you looking for some help?
David Cougle Lol no help. You need some though. Can't take a hint. Here's some more for you:
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0gksiSNr71rqxvbdo1_400.jpg
Isn't it a coincidence that the posters on here that say that savage acted appropriately and there was no bullying, and this is a non-story, also conveniently have a massive chip on their shoulder regarding the Christian religion in general?
Of course it's a story when the head of an anti-bullying campaign bullies and ridicules others. The only people who would think it would not be a story are those who want to sweep the hypocrisy under the rug.
It seems some of these folks really don't have even an objective understanding of the Christian religion. The christian religion believes the Bible is God's word and is infallible. Now, people are free to disagree with that, but it is what the Christian religion has taught for thousands of years.
That being said, young children were forced to sit by and have a figure in authority tell them that their religion, and it's "holy text," was wrong, and ridicule them for believing that it was correct and that the bible was infallible. This is a direct attack on their religious beliefs, and then, of course, they were ridiculed when they left and didn't want to take it anymore.
Only people who are so blinded by their hatred and bigotry toward Christianity would throw objectivity to the wind and not see this as bullying. I'm a Christian myself, but would wholeheartedly agree that if a Christian speaker spoke to muslim students at a school, criticized their religion and the koran, and ridiculed those who walked out, was bullying them.
The fact that these folks post all their objections to christianity here that are not even related to sexuality prove my point. They have an issue with christianity in general to the extent that they are completely unobjective. In the end, you guys are hurting your own cause, because you are making it clear that you DO approve of bullying, as long as it's against those you don't like and disagree with.
It's either wrong or it's not.
Well said, David!
The only ridiculing he did was the "pansy-ass" comment. Otherwise he didn't say Christianity ITSELF was bad. He said SOME CHRISTIANS are bad – you know the cherry pickers. The ones who ignore ALL the other things in the Bible EXCEPT homosexuality. The ones who USE those verses to justify bullying homosexuals. If you listen – that's what he said. Could he have used more tact? Yes. Did he need to say "pansy ass?" No. But did he make a point? Yes.
Why is it someone has a "massive chip" on his or her shoulder because they disagree with Christianity? Some of us have said his approach was wrong. Had he continued to go on and on and continued online or in person to ridicule Christians, THAT would be bullying. Is it a story? Yes. Anything can be a "story." Is it newsworthy? Yes. Newsworthy enough to re-post 5+ times like Todd Starnes has done and left out things that don't support HIS agenda? No.
So you say this David Cougle: It seems some of these folks really don't have even an objective understanding of the Christian religion. The christian religion believes the Bible is God's word and is infallible. Now, people are free to disagree with that, but it is what the Christian religion has taught for thousands of years.
Except when people DO disagree with it, Christians go on the attack. You know how many people have said completely vile and just disgusting things to me SOLELY because I disagree with them and point out some flaws in the logic of their religion? There are flaws in EVERY religion – I'm an equal opportunity religion disliker.
NONE of those kids was "forced" to go to that presentation. Not one. There were permission slips given out – so parents could have said "no." PLUS if they were "forced" as you say, wouldn't they have been MADE to sit back down when they left? That was nothing but a stunt pulled by those kids who walked out. It's so obvious.
I do not hate Christianity. I am not "bigoted" toward it. I do strongly dislike the HYPOCRITES IN ANY RELIGION (sorry no italics or bold) who USE the religious text they believe to commit horrendous acts. It depends on what the Christian speaker said to Muslim students quite honestly. All Savage did was point out that there are SOME PEOPLE who use the Bible to attack homosexuals. SOME. Not ALL.
I think you're hurting your own cause to prove how good Christianity allegedly is. You can believe all you want. And we can have our opinion on it. As can Savage. Maybe next time the organizers think before they invite certain people to events.
Kelly Calder Right, he wasn't ridiculing them when he criticized their bible(the basis of christianity) and the idea that people believed it was the word of God. And that they had to stand by and listen to an authority figure criticize their belief system, and likely the belief system of their family, was perfectly normal. And as for the girls he caused to cry, they were at fault, not him.
I'm not trying to prove how good Christianity is. I'm not even arguing as to whether or not it's true. The only thing I've discussed in this this whole topic is whether or not savage was bullying, and he was.
But, honestly, I think I can finally understand your point. As long as Christians change their beliefs and conform to what you and Mr. Savage think they should believe, then they won't be ridiculed or bullied. That seems perfectly reasonable.
Seriously, though, the chip that you admit is on your shoulder(regarding bitterness toward the catholic church or whatever) has apparently made you so ravenously biased that you don't see how you are coming across to people.
WHO is to blame for that activist Sodomite pervert even being permitted, let alone *invited,* to address a gathering of student journalists?
I smell an Obam… oops, I mean a rat!
Here is a link to a sermon I would like all outraged Christians to hear:
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2012/05/video-amendment1-pastor-gives-parents-special-dispensation-to-use-violence-against-lgbt-kids-4marriagenc.html
Then I would like to know if you condemn this Christian pastor.
I would enjoy him saying these things to my face , he would not.
God help us.Whoe unto those who call evil good, and good evil.