President Obama released a statement today marking the start of Ramadan. The president said Ramadan “reminds us that Islam is part of the fabric of our nation.”
Following, is the president’s statement:
“On behalf of the American people, Michelle and I extend our warmest wishes to Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world at the start of Ramadan. For Muslims, Ramadan is a time of fasting, prayer, and reflection; a time of joy and celebration. It’s a time to cherish family, friends, and neighbors, and to help those in need.
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“This year, Ramadan holds special meaning for those citizens in the Middle East and North Africa who are courageously achieving democracy and self-determination and for those who are still struggling to achieve their universal rights. The United States continues to stand with those who seek the chance to decide their own destiny, to live free from fear and violence, and to practice their faith freely. Here in the United States, Ramadan reminds us that Islam is part of the fabric of our Nation, and that—from public service to business, from healthcare and science to the arts—Muslim Americans help strengthen our country and enrich our lives.
“Even as Ramadan holds profound meaning for the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims, it is also a reminder to people of all faiths of our common humanity and the commitment to justice, equality, and compassion shared by all great faiths. In that spirit, I wish Muslims across America and around the world a blessed month, and I look forward to again hosting an iftar dinner here at the White House. Ramadan Kareem.”
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The brown stain on the fabric of America is pandering as usual. Islam as the fabric of our nation? Oh yeah, that's right, we're no longer a Christian nation because McKenyan qualified himself to proclaim it.
We are not a christian nation, we are a nation where the majority of the citizens are of a christian faith of some sort. "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen" Thank God the founding fathers set this in the first international treaty.
Joke Rivera , you clearly can't read, because he didn't say that , and the USA has never been a Christian nation.
You are a complete failure at everything, no wonder your wife left you for a real man and you were fired from your job .
Please, if you are going to quote something at least study it's context. That statement is a horrible translation and an insertion into a document translated from Arabic – without the slightest suggestion of that statement being in the original. The followup treaty of Paris was signed off in the name of the Triune God – the Christian God. Previous Government statements were definitely Christian. There is only this one to support your disingenuous statement.
Using an erroneous translation taken far from its context is academic dishonesty of the rankest order!
Now I know you read this on some website, but research your quotes before you repeat them!
Howard Aubrey
True liberal – can't get the facts right, so ad hominums and insults will have to do.
Just because it was added after it was drafted in arabic means NOTHING since it was written in english AS IS when it was signed and ratified by congress and the president.
Just because it was added after it was drafted in arabic means NOTHING since it was written in english AS IS when it was signed and ratified by congress and the president.
Joel, who are these people? I do not think they should bring your personal life into a simple Facebook posting. Just asking. LOVE
Coward Crybaby
I really don't give a damn what you think. Beware of your victims will be coming after your rape tool when you leat expect it.
Coward Crybaby
I really don't give a damn what you think. Beware of your victims will be coming after your rape tool when you leat expect it.
Kyle Price
Your a funny guy. You say America is not a Christian nation but yet you utter "thank God" towards the end of our post. How bout one consistency.
Kyle Price
Your a funny guy. You say America is not a Christian nation but yet you utter "thank God" towards the end of our post. How bout one consistency.
It's called sarcasm.
It's called sarcasm.
Kyle Price
You gotta hone your sarcasm a little more.
Supreme Court Justice David Brewer (1837-1910) explained:
[I]n what sense can [America] be called a Christian nation? Not in the sense that Christianity is the established religion or that the people are in any manner compelled to support it. On the contrary, the Constitution specifically provides that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Neither is it Christian in the sense that all its citizens are either in fact or name Christians. On the contrary, all religions have free scope within our borders. Numbers of our people profess other religions, and many reject all. Nor is it Christian in the sense that a profession of Christianity is a condition of holding office or otherwise engaging in public service, or essential to recognition either politically or socially. In fact, the government as a legal organization is independent of all religions. Nevertheless, we constantly speak of this republic as a Christian nation – in fact, as the leading Christian nation of the world.
So, if being a Christian nation is not based on any of the above criterion, then what makes America a Christian nation? According to Justice Brewer, America was “of all the nations in the world . . . most justly called a Christian nation” because Christianity “has so largely shaped and molded it.”
Constitutional law professor Edward Mansfield (1801-1880) similarly acknowledged:
In every country, the morals of a people – whatever they may be – take their form and spirit from their religion. For example, the marriage of brothers and sisters was permitted among the Egyptians because such had been the precedent set by their gods, Isis and Osiris. . . . . In the United States, Christianity is the original, spontaneous, and national religion.
Founding Father and U. S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall agreed:
[W]ith us, Christianity and religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed, if with such a people our institutions did not presuppose Christianity and did not often refer to it and exhibit relations with it.
Modern claims that America is not a Christian nation are rarely noticed or refuted today because of the nation’s widespread lack of knowledge about America’s history and foundation.
Christianity is the religion that shaped America and made her what she is today. In fact, historically speaking, it can be irrefutably demonstrated that Biblical Christianity in America produced many of the cherished traditions still enjoyed today, including:
A republican rather than a theocratic form of government;
The institutional separation of church and state (as opposed to today’s enforced institutional secularization of church and state);
Protection for religious toleration and the rights of conscience;
A distinction between theology and behavior, thus allowing the incorporation into public policy of religious principles that promote good behavior but which do not enforce theological tenets (examples of this would include religious teachings such as the Good Samaritan, The Golden Rule, the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, etc., all of which promote positive civil behavior but do not impose ecclesiastical rites); and
A free-market approach to religion, thus ensuring religious diversity.
Consequently, a Christian nation as demonstrated by the American experience is a nation founded upon Christian and Biblical principles, whose values, society, and institutions have largely been shaped by those principles. This definition was reaffirmed by American legal scholars and historians for generations, but is widely ignored by today’s revisionists.
Thomas Jefferson was instrumental in establishing weekly Sunday worship services at the U. S. Capitol (a practice that continued through the 19th century) and was himself a regular and faithful attendant at those church services, not even allowing inclement weather to dissuade his weekly horseback travel to the Capitol church. (The fact that the U. S. Capitol building was available for church on Sundays was due to the Art. I, Sec. 7 constitutional requirement that forbade federal lawmaking on Sundays; and this recognition of a Christian Sabbath in the U. S. Constitution was cited by federal courts as proof of the Christian nature of America. While not every Christian observes a Sunday Sabbath, no other religion in the world honors Sunday except Christianity. As one court noted, the various Sabbaths were “the Friday of the Mohammedan, the Saturday of the Israelite, or the Sunday of the Christian.” )
Why was Jefferson a faithful attendant at the Sunday church at the Capitol? He once explained to a friend while they were walking to church together:
No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example.
Howard Aubrey you are typical of what is wrong with our country.
Bettina,
Yes, we know that conservative hate mongers like yourself dislike honesty and facts…..
You can't call me a hate monger nor conservative…you have no FACTS for either. But I can call you typical of whats wrong with our country by what you posted personally about Mr Rivera. Attacks of a personal nature when discussing politics is the telling feature when a liberal low life has run out of any other argument.
And yet, Bettina… that is exactly what you did to me….
We'll just add 'hypocrite' to your resume, OK?
ahahaha but see…I am NOT a liberal tyvm
Quit molesting that tree fagboy.you are a keyboard sissy that hides in your trans-gender mothers attic and types rude comments about people cause you feel safe.I hope you get caught outside tinkerbell.
America was founded on Christian principles.
Christa Price BRAVO!!!!!!!!!! You do your homework quite well.
Juhnny Ulmer,
Christian 'principles' were all based in the moral and ethical teachings of ancient Greece and Rome……
Juhnny Ulmer,
Christian 'principles' were all based in the moral and ethical teachings of ancient Greece and Rome……
We are not a Christian nation and never were. The Bible has no legislative effect, even if it informs the morality of a significant number of our citizens.
You, obviously, have 0 understanding of American history. Non-Christian nations have a call to prayer, fasting, repentance and humiliation before God by their president all the time, I'm sure
Paul, what the F are you talking about? Having a lot of christians under the rule of a government does not make a nation Christian. I say again; THE BIBLE HAS NO LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA; which is to say, you cannot charge a person of a crime for violating a 'rule' or 'law' in the Bible unless that rule or law also exists within the secular government structure.
Please point to the part of the US Constitution that explicitly and implicitly implies that we are a "christian" nation.
Ian Novick Thank you! At least someone has some common sense and hasn't been brainwashed…
Ian Novick Thank you! At least someone has some common sense and hasn't been brainwashed…
Ian Novick I suggest you control yourself and learn to talk like an adult when you address others on this or any other forum.
islam hasn't got a damn thing to do with this Nation!
islam hasn't got a damn thing to do with this Nation!
Not sure about "fabric" but one of the founding reasons was freedom of religion.
If you read the founding fathers, you'd be aware that one of their great concerns was that a Mohametton might actually get into the government. At the time of the founding, some 3500 Americans/English were being held as galley-slaves by the Mohamettans, a particular cruel way to die.
Just saying islam had nothing to with the making of this nation. That being said, freedom of religion part was not having to be whatever religion the KING was or whatever he decided it to be. More wars have been fought over religion than we could ever count.
I know, I spelled islam with a little…….i. I worship my God and they worship their god(s). They don't have to convert me, talk to me or teach me about their religion.There is nothing about islam I care to understand. All I needed to learn about islam, happened on 9-11. That is all.
Jennifer Chalmers Laird
Correct – not freedom from religion. Every state had its own state religion at the time of the signing, and what uneducated people assume is that freedom of religion means any or all – when in fact the "Freedom of Religion" meant that no particular sect of the "Christian" religion could be preferred over another.
Like these founders and the pilgrims weren't Christians looking for a place to practice their Christian religion in peace?
I do not enjoy being talked down to. Your points would be better taken if not so arrogantly put. If your purpose is to win people over to Romney you are not doing well in my opinion.
Scott Crafton – Actually Muslims have lived here since the 1800s. I also recall Thomas Jefferson writing positively about Islam in one of his letters.
Scott Crafton – Actually Muslims have lived here since the 1800s. I also recall Thomas Jefferson writing positively about Islam in one of his letters.
Harry Truman
1884 – 1972
33rd U. S. said:"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state".
This is EXACTLY what has happened.
Harry Truman
1884 – 1972
33rd U. S. said:"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state".
This is EXACTLY what has happened.
So you're going to go with Harry Truman, who wasn't even part of the founding of the country, and off his opinions of what the nation is? Hmm….
Harry Truman
1884 – 1972
33rd U.S. president said: "The fundamental basis of this nations law was given to Moss on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state".
And this is exactly what happened.
Ronald Reagan
1911 – 2004
40th U.S. president said: "Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face". He also stated, "Of the many influences that have shaped the United States into a distinctive nation and people, none may be said to be more fundamental than enduring the Bible".
Andrew Jackson
1767 – 1845
Seventh U.S. president said: "The Bible is the rock on which our republic rests".
Kelly Calder Abraham Lincoln
1809 – 1865
16th U.S. president stated: "I believe the Bible is the best book God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book".
Just opinions from Presidents. Doesn't mean that we're a Christian nation.
Abe – said he thought the Bible was the "Best book."
Andrew – Again opinion about the Bible.
Reagan – Another opinion on the Bible.
So tell me how that's "fact" that we are a Christian nation?
I'm not saying we are a Christian nation. I stated above that we USED to be a Christian nation. This country is now ruled by satan. I was just pointing out that this country was founded on Christian PRINCIPLES. What the presidents said you may think is opinion and you are right but what they said is also very true.
No we never were a Christian nation. That's the point. It was not founded on Christian principles at all. YOU think what they said is true. I don't.
Kelly Calder are you an atheist?
Yes, we are a Christian nation, and always have been. Plain and simple! No matter what President Obama thinks or tries to "executively" do away with!
Hey we may be related? Where from?
Sherryl,
How about President George Washington….ever heard of him? He said….
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"…..
He was a white guy, I'm sure you like him…….
We USED to be a Christian nation. With all the violence, street gangs, porn, gay marriages etc. going on in this country satan has taken over. With all the Biblical events taking place here and around the world it's just a matter of time before Jesus comes to take us home.
Liked your post Johnny and I wish to add abortion to the list of evil deeds.
Go brush your teeth fagboy. Your breath smells like a crotch.Quit feeling up that tree tinkerbell.
The government was not founded on Christian religion. The country was based on Christian principles.
The government was not founded on Christian religion. The country was based on Christian principles.
Thank you Sandra for pointing that out. In this country it's legal murder plain & simple.
Thank you Sandra for pointing that out. In this country it's legal murder plain & simple.
Kelly Henderson ????????????????
Kelly Henderson ????????????????
Kelly Henderson – What's with the vile comments? At least have some sort of discussion point…wow. Just wow.
Kelly Henderson – What's with the vile comments? At least have some sort of discussion point…wow. Just wow.
You should have seen the email he sent me… Pretty much begging for sex from me… disgusting!
Then say we are "culturally Christian" – that would be largely accurate. Saying we are "christian nation" makes us sound like a christian versions of the theocratic 3rd world hell holes in the middle east.
Johnny, I'm sure you then realize that all 'christian principles' derived from the moral and ethical codes of the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations, right?
Johnny, I'm sure you then realize that all 'christian principles' derived from the moral and ethical codes of the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations, right?
Howard, I will not pretend to know about something I don't know about. I am really not that educated on the subject however what I said I do know. Just being perfectly honest with you.
Howard, I will not pretend to know about something I don't know about. I am really not that educated on the subject however what I said I do know. Just being perfectly honest with you.
Who????????????
Who????????????
He was also a satanic 33rd degree freemason along with many founding fathers and presidents. The layout of the capitol area is done along those lines complete with the phallus of apollo (washington monument) and the womb of osiris (capitol dome) duplicating the satanic symbols at the vatican
Howard Aubrey – there are many Christian religions. This county was based on Christian values and principals. Hence the statements on our money, "in God we Trust". I'm sure you like money cause it's green. Our money does not say "in allah we trust" and most importantly we did not build this country on shariah law. Thank GOD.
Well said Dorene. I said basically the same thing.
I'm with you Johnny! Praise Jesus!
So we have freedom of religion except for Islam? I'm not an Islamist, but I respect the right for people to practice their faith. I'm sure the founding fathers didn't like atheists or satanists either, but I don't recall there being exception clauses for this freedom.
I completely agree with you … but its always bothered me that when Obama is asked if he is Muslim he vehemently denies it. I'd have more repect for him if he replied, "why does it matter?"
I completely agree with you … but its always bothered me that when Obama is asked if he is Muslim he vehemently denies it. I'd have more repect for him if he replied, "why does it matter?"
Well first thing you need to know is don't watch, read or whatever anything to do with Fox news.
Its as valid a news source as CNN or MSNBC … meaning none are unbiased and none give the full story.
true that!
You pretty much can't rely on anything on tv. Internet and then you still have to research and check your facts!
listen to NPR- they are the only guys, agree with them or don't agree with them, that seek report on complex issues while embracing the fact that they are complex.
Yep, Randy all you lilly livered liberals who have a great disdain for the truth, stay away from Fox News
I prefer the recommendation and tone of Ian Novick, presented without insults so that the point is actually communicated and heard.
What a disgrace. Again. NOBAMA!
What a disgrace. Again. NOBAMA!
I just flushed some of that fabric down the crapper.
Ray,
I know how you feel, I've been using bibles for toilet paper for years… The pages are soft and supple, and they tear out so easily… Plus, they're already full of crap…
So is your mouth fagboy. Qiut molesting that tree tinker-bell.
Coward Crybaby
And yet no Christian has done any harm to you as far as payback. Will you do the same to the koran? As one who sh*ts from his mouth and talks from his ass, try wiping that latter part with pages of the koran and see if the muslims dont get maniacal on your pansy ass and leave a stump where your head used to be. Come on Coward, dont live up to your name, be a man and do it in front of them.
Coward Crybaby
And yet no Christian has done any harm to you as far as payback. Will you do the same to the koran? As one who sh*ts from his mouth and talks from his ass, try wiping that latter part with pages of the koran and see if the muslims dont get maniacal on your pansy ass and leave a stump where your head used to be. Come on Coward, dont live up to your name, be a man and do it in front of them.
Joke Rivers,
Christians are doing their best to destroy The USA and the rest of the world, as are all the other monotheistic superstitions…
It cost the DOJ over 100 billion dollars so far to investigate and prosecute your fellow child raping christians… Clearly this impacts ALL US taxpayers…
I know that doesn't include yourself, since you can't hold a job and are collecting from the taxpayers as well, but we DO care where our money goes…
Get off your fat, lazy azz and get a job, leech boy….
Coward Crybaby
Watch your back boy. The law may be coming after you with rape and molestation charges. You can't deflect your guilt on people that you hate and get away with it. Those kids you molested are now grown and will hack off your rape tool and make you choke on it when they find you.
Again with the projection, 'disability' boy?
Get some pride, get a job, come out of the closet (you're fooling no one) and stop disgracing humanity….
Coward Crybaby
Ladies first because you don't appear to exude any characteristics of a man, let alone any semblance of one. You spend way to much time on here away from your self proclaimed imaginary dream job of clinical proctologist. No wonder you're such a sick sexual deviant. Be gone. No one takes you seriously anyway.
Coward Crybaby
Ladies first because you don't appear to exude any characteristics of a man, let alone any semblance of one. You spend way to much time on here away from your self proclaimed imaginary dream job of clinical proctologist. No wonder you're such a sick sexual deviant. Be gone. No one takes you seriously anyway.
Howard, if you were small enough i would flush you as well,,,
Please Ray, do that to the Koran, post that you did and see what kind of response you get…I bet you'll recieve some death threats…Please respect the fact that you are in the minority and respect people's right to believe how they want to believe.
Where did you learn that bit of nonsense, Ian? Better change history books.
He probably made it up like he seems to do a lot.
Last I knew our country was founded as a Christian country, our currency says in God We Trust, not In Allah we trust.
Can you be any more of an ass. Respecting other religions is a good thing. This country is about freedom of religion for all!
This makes you an ass. Respecting other religions is a good thing. This country is about freedom of religion!
" in G-d we trust" was officially adopted in 1956 as a replacement for Epluribus unum which means "Out of many, one" and G-d Also "Allah" which is the Arabic name for G-d is the same God of both Judaism(YHWH-Yahweh), and Christianity. So yeah not limited to Christianity in any way really.
" in G-d we trust" was officially adopted in 1956 as a replacement for Epluribus unum which means "Out of many, one" and G-d Also "Allah" which is the Arabic name for G-d is the same God of both Judaism(YHWH-Yahweh), and Christianity. So yeah not limited to Christianity in any way really.
El Marichachi – That wasn't added to the currency until later on. We were never founded as Christian country. If we were, it would be the BASIS for our government and legal system. It is not.
Also with the Pledge of Allegiance – "under god" wasn't added until the 1950s. The original pledge was much shorter and included a salute. That salute was changed to hand over the heart by FDR because the salute resembled the Nazi salute.
Ashley you don't get the big picture. You are still deluded by this"reality" that is sold to the masses. I respect peoples' religious choices, but i don't respect the outright crimes perpetrated by this administration.
& the attacks on Christianity, and the straight up evilness that is involved. There are people going to prison for having bible studies on Arizona, (google it) while child molesters, rapists, and murderers walk free. Can't you tell by the sheer craziness of
& the attacks on Christianity, and the straight up evilness that is involved. There are people going to prison for having bible studies on Arizona, (google it) while child molesters, rapists, and murderers walk free. Can't you tell by the sheer craziness of
This country is founded under the "ruse" of religious freedom though that never really happened.I don;t think any facet of religion should be talked about by members of the gov. I has no place there. On a side note more people have been tortured and killed in the name of "catholic Christianity" than any other faith world wide…
This country is founded under the "ruse" of religious freedom though that never really happened.I don;t think any facet of religion should be talked about by members of the gov. I has no place there. On a side note more people have been tortured and killed in the name of "catholic Christianity" than any other faith world wide…
Ashley you don't get the big picture. You are still deluded by this"reality" that is sold to the masses. I respect peoples' religious choices, but i don't respect the outright crimes perpetrated by this administration.
The sheer craziness of everything going on in the world, that something big is gonna happen? Not necessarily good either.
The sheer craziness of everything going on in the world, that something big is gonna happen? Not necessarily good either.
Catholic Christianity is actually anti Christian in so many ways. Not disputing that Nicole. In fact the Vatican helped many of the Nazi criminals of WWII escape justice.
Okay but modern AMERICAN Christianity is 99.9% catholic based.
Okay but modern AMERICAN Christianity is 99.9% catholic based.
the catholic church is NOT Christian, it is satanic and the seat of the antichrist. NOTHIING ion the doctrine of that cult is consistent with the Bible. In fact, in most cases, the cult doctrine violates the Bible
We are not a "Christian" nation. I get so tired of people. If we are – why didn't the Founders PUT that into our Constitution? Why is Christianity not the basis of our laws? It's because we are not a Christian or any religion nation. Countries like Iraq, Iran, etc. Those are Islamic nations – because Islam is a key part of their government. Our law is more based on some of Hammurabi's code than it is the Ten Commandments. Just because the majority of people claim to believe Christianity doesn't mean it's a Christian nation.
Also, Islam is part of the US. Muslims have lived in the US since the 1800s. No one seemed to care until after 9/11 though. He isn't saying Islam should be our government. He just wished Muslims well on Ramadan. What's the big deal? Nothing.
We are not a "Christian" nation. I get so tired of people. If we are – why didn't the Founders PUT that into our Constitution? Why is Christianity not the basis of our laws? It's because we are not a Christian or any religion nation. Countries like Iraq, Iran, etc. Those are Islamic nations – because Islam is a key part of their government. Our law is more based on some of Hammurabi's code than it is the Ten Commandments. Just because the majority of people claim to believe Christianity doesn't mean it's a Christian nation.
Also, Islam is part of the US. Muslims have lived in the US since the 1800s. No one seemed to care until after 9/11 though. He isn't saying Islam should be our government. He just wished Muslims well on Ramadan. What's the big deal? Nothing.
Obama may wish well to the Muslims, but he can't even acknowledge Christian's on The National Day of Prayer??? I am a Christian and I am somewhat tolerable, but when the president can't even recognize that Christian's make up a majority of the country he's running, then he needs some lessons in tolerance…God gave everyone a choice and have free will over their life, so we are free to believe in whatever we want to believe, BUT FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL FOLLOW GOD!!!!!
There is no denying it. America was founded on Christian principles. Plain & simple. END OF STORY.
Johnny Ulmer,
There is no denying it. Any person that believes the US was in any way founded upon anything 'christian' is a complete imbecile. END OF STORY.
There are far to many Biblical events taking place to worry about if this nation is Christian or not anyway.
The controversial gun ban is a sure sign of things to come along with the NWO.
I just think ramadan is a PERFECT time to nuke mecca.
It is people like you, who perpetuate hate, that make this world uglier every day. Have some respect for your fellow human beings, no matter how seemingly different from you. It is people like you who force others to stop believing in goodness. Do us all a favor and stop being a disgrace. Think before you speak. You aren't funny or clever in any way.
And you are an IDIOT if you think islime is something that can be dealth with by any means other than overwhelming force. Their ENTIRE history PROVES that. Go back to liberal ignorance land and when you are forced to be covered head to toe don't whine to those of us who told you so.
Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Koran, and in it's margins wrote some very unflattering things about Islam.
Yeah I heard of TJ too. That guy living off of hundreds of slaves while talking against slavery, right? I was always a great fan of his integrity!
His opinions definitely should be be listened to, especially if it can start some good old fashioned hatred…!
Eric my friend, our founding fathers didn't start slavery, which persists to this day the world over. They did however create a document that ensured the end of it in our great country. ALL MEN ARE EQUAL. These words were written with the knowledge that someday their literal meaning would become reality. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
CREATED EQUAL
I couldn't find the part in my post where I said that they started it, so i am not sure why you are arguing that. I am sure however that you are aware od the common understanding of whether words or actions speak louder. Oh and yes I agree, God Bless America! Any God. They are going to have about the same effect on anything.
My initial post was regarding a founding father's views on Islam. Slavery is not the issue here, And is a straw man argument. Yes Jefferson owned slaves, slaves that were sold by Arabs who purchased them from fellow Africans. And as I'm sure you know, blacks in the colonies owned slaves, and many whites were treated just like slaves, the Irish as prime example. Thomas Jefferson was a man of incredible talent and knowledge. This tactic you're using of viewing historical figures using today's standards isn't fair nor logical.
My initial post was regarding a founding father's views on Islam. Slavery is not the issue here, And is a straw man argument. Yes Jefferson owned slaves, slaves that were sold by Arabs who purchased them from fellow Africans. And as I'm sure you know, blacks in the colonies owned slaves, and many whites were treated just like slaves, the Irish as prime example. Thomas Jefferson was a man of incredible talent and knowledge. This tactic you're using of viewing historical figures using today's standards isn't fair nor logical.
You're right slavery is not the topic, I just don't think that the opinion of someoone who led as hypocritical life as Jefferson did should be set as one to heed. Especially if it is against certain groups of people – which shows again his hypocrisy, since were created equal. right? Also talent and knowledge seldom translates to high morals or rightousness. (I know you'd find interesting Krishnamurti's "Intellect vs intelligence" on that topic -google it) (oh, and slavery was wrong and contrary to christian morals, even back then, so it's not today's standard)
Well Eric, we are all entitled to our opinions (unless you're a Muslim that is, as the phrase "heads will roll" is taken literally by them) I am of the opinion that Islam is not a part of the fabric of the United States, despite the claim by Obama during his Ramadan speech. I also believe that Thomas Jefferson was a truly accomplished individual, and that his ownership of slaves does not negate his insight.
Not really a fabric of of nation, more of a disease.