Nov 23, 2011
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The U.S. Military removed a large cross that had been displayed outside a chapel at Camp Marmal in northern Afghanistan because it violated Army regulations.
A Pentagon spokesman confirmed to Fox News that the cross had been taken down – after someone complained.
“Military chapels have to be open to all denominations and as such can’t have permanent symbols of one particular religion or another,” Commander Williams Speaks told Fox News.
He said the cross was erected about a month ago – and when questions were raised the Army unit’s chaplain consulted the rules and “realized that taking it down was the appropriate thing to do.”
The story was first reported in Politico. Camp Marmal is a German base that hosts NATO forces. However, the interfaith chapel is supervised by the U.S. Army, Speaks said.
Soldiers worshipping inside Camp Marmal - photo by Army
Outraged soldiers told the news organization that the cross made the chapel feel like home and others found comfort in the religious symbol.
“I really don’t understand why Christians are always attacked,” one service member told Politico. “If it was a crescent moon on top of a mosque, it would never be taken down.”
However, Speaks said there had been complaints.
“I’ve also heard that there were some that were upset about the cross to begin with,” he told Fox News. “Our job as military service members is to abide by the UCMJ and other regulations to ensure that all religious denominations and religious of our service members are treated fairly.
And that is accomplished by taking down the Christian symbol?
Speaks said it is his understanding that the rule applies not just to that particular camp – but all military chapels.
Dedication of new Camp Marmal Chapel - photo by Army
Army Regulation 165-1, 12-3k states:”The chapel environment will be religiously neutral when the facility is not being used for scheduled worship. Portable religious symbols, icons, or statues may be used within a chapel during times of religious worship.”
“Symbols are to be moved or covered when not in use during services. Distinctive religious symbols, such as crosses, crucifixes, the Star of David, Menorah, and other religious symbols will not be affixed or displayed permanently on the chapel interior, exterior, or grounds. Permanent or fixed chapel furnishings, such as the altar, pulpit, lectern, or communion rail will be devoid of distinctive religious symbols.”
“Not having it there is really upsetting,” one service member told Politico. “I walk by the chapel daily on the way to chow and the gym, and seeing the cross is a daily reminder of my faith and what Jesus accomplished for me. It is daily inspiration and motivation for me to acknowledge my faith and stay on the right path.”
Some conservative leaders said it’s proof of an effort underway to sanitize the military and country of Christianity.
“What’s the purpose of a chapel?” asked Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council. “The timing of this – what a way to celebrate Thanksgiving.”
“There’s a sole purpose of a chapel and it’s to worship – whether it’s Catholic or Protestant. Americans who serve in the military are overwhelmingly Christian.”
The chapel was dedicated in September, according to a news release from the Army.
“We have gathered here today to dedicate this chapel to God,” said Maj. Xuan Tran, chaplain, 1st Air Cavalry Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division, during dedication ceremonies.
“This chapel will be a center and important place where people can come together to worship and offer sacrifices of praise,” he said.
FOX News Talk
I served 11 years as a chaplains assistant in the Army. I have set up for protestant, catholic, jewish, mormon, and islam services. Positive symbols of all faiths were displayed with no problem. The chapel was arranged appropriately for each group when they wanted to have services. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…" Allowing religious symbols for all faiths does not show disrespect to any particular faith. Restricting symbols does inhibit the "free exercise thereof…" Restricting expression of religious faith is contrary to our multicultural tradition and creates friction instead of understanding.
You can't deny it. Religion, especially Christianity, enjoys a privileged status in the US and the West. Its shameful that anyone would be angered over the removal of this cross. Its a chapel meant for everyone, not just you. If you can't commune with God without a cross present, maybe your faith is the problem.
Matthew 12:30 – Jesus said, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters."
Matthew 7:20 – Jesus said, "Thus by their fruit you will recognize them."
Dear Commander, whoever wrote that rule had good intentions but did not know what our God said about what is acceptable as being on His side.
Faith is not about what you believe but what you do because you believe. If you want God on your side you must stand with Him uneqivocally. You and I didn't make that rule either but sometimes faith causes you to make a stand for Jesus.
Reading this article and some comments from everyone who has chosen to comment I find it sad but yet I rejoice because I know that the Bible I read is true? it tells me that we will be hated just as JESUS was and surely as I read this and other articles in the past it is becoming more and more revalant where we as Christians are headed? For me and my Christian friends and those who have accepted JESUS prepare for the onslaught that is coming our way? how do we prepare well we just get on our knees and pray? and we let GOD guide our actions? and for those of you who choose not to believe and continue to lash out at us? well let me say this as kindly as I can you prepare as well because when everything is over and the dust has settled only one will be standing and we all know who that will be but let me remind you his name is JESUS! Every knee will bow every tongue confess that JESUS is LORD. and oh by the way I have served in Afghanistan and Iraq so that comments like this about Christians can be posted? This is my Son's page my name is Gabriel.
Why do you have so many question marks in your post? I'm not trying to be a smartass but I get confused as to if you're asking questions or making statements is all. And why are you using your son's page to post comments?
I do not need a Cross, a Star of David, a Crescent Moon or even a building to Pray and Worship my God. They are all material things and he will hear me wherever I am. Tear the building down. Hold services in the tents.
Don't bother to pray for the troops. God has been banned from their encampments.
Gene Neill – That's not true. Don't be melodramatic. Everyone of any of the recognized religions by the military has the ability to worship. If you need to have a cross to worship your faith, then I feel sorry for you. I thought Christians weren't supposed to worship idols anyway?
The P.O.S that made this asinine decision should be set before a firing squad…. But, then, it all fits right in with the mindset of the usurper muslim squatting in the white house. His sole intent toward the military is to totally destroy its effectiveness as a fighting force…..always has been..
Why don't you whiners GET A LIFE, I just took a crap, any of you whiners want to whine about that?
By the way, I'm offended by all you whiners, please remove yourself from this life!
They can take the cross but we know the end of the story Jesus is victorious and will rule.
The religious program in the army is the COMMANDERS responsiblity and the rules are clear for all. The larger question is whether today's chaplaincy as currently constituted is still necessary. I think not. A deployed commander should be able to higher a qualified civilian clergy and imbed them in the unit meeting the needs of the majority, or not take them along at all. Kids don't deploy with M16s to the battlefield…or do they?
Remove the (overwhelming) influence of Christ and Christianity from the military and it will absolutely… COLLAPSE! But, this falls right in line with the basic purposes and goals of the muslim swine in the White House. On this "Thanksgiving Day"….America needs to, now more than ever, fall on it's ever increasingly God-less face…and thank HIM that He has not rewarded this country with what it deserves. Indeed, His "long-sufering" and undeserved lovingkindness is the ONLY reason we still exist as a nation today.
Um…there is no Muslim in the White House. Pres. Obama is a Christian as is his family. Do you think that America is the only country in the world that matters to god? That's a bit of a selfish thought don't you think? If all people are god's children he would care about all nations right?
Of special note: For those who could "stomach" listening to Obuslim's "address" to the nation re: "Thanksgiving Day"…. how many noticed that he …NEVER ONCE… gave thanks to GOD ALMIGHTY..for the multitude of blessings that He has poured out upon this country..?? REASON BEING: His muslim god, allah…(that name be damned) is NOT…a god..at all. "The One True GOD"… who has so abundantly blessed us over the entire existence of this nation….was not ..ONCE… mentioned by the "useless one"… obama.
This is a Christian based nation..In God We Trust…if you don't like it get the fhuck out!
Bwahahahaha!!! Archie Bunker, is that you?
Thank God, at least the military is neutral when it comes to Religion, us heathens have rights too. Blessed Be. As a military Vet I have fought for my right not to be overrun by the most bigoted religion in the world, the bible thumpers.
To those of you in or out of the military who do not really understand the regulations governing the use of buildings as chapels, you should read up about it. I joined the Army in 1974 as a Chaplain Assistant and I'm sure the rules haven't changed still. The article is correct in that when the building is used for a particular faith's service, it may be decorated in any manner they see fit. But, once the service is over, the religious materials must come down. This is because the buildings will often be used for more than one type of faith service or religious belief. What may be confusing is that often on a stateside base, a particular building is often used exclusively for Protestant, Jewish, or Catholic services, so symbolism and decorations are left up most of the time. But, if you were to investigate closely, you will usually find the decorations are quickly removeable. There is no problem here, a chapel is a building, used by any faith (or meetings of a secular nature), when necessary. They never belong to a particular faith. Would you propose a separate building each for Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Assembly of God, Church of God, Methodists, Jewish faith, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc? God is where you are, in your heart. This article is not telling those of us who have worked in the military ministry something we didn't already know. The idea that a building must be religious neutral is taught in our initial training classes (and has been for many decades) when we agreed to join the military as a religious team member.
The military has created a NEUTRAL place for people of ALL faiths to worship. Bring your cross, quran, prayer mat, whatever makes you feel better. Say your own prayers to your own god in your own way and k now you're in a place where you won't be persecuted for those beliefs. As a person of faith what more can you ask for the to be able to worship openly without fear of reprisal?
PUSSIES!
PUSSIES!
Just another slap in the face to Christianity, the United States and our brave soldiers.
Not a slap in my face – and I'm a soldier. I know a lot of Christian soldiers who see no issue with it either since it's supposed to be a place for all religions to go to.
Gotcha Calder…….I respect your opinion or whomever your posting for. Please forgive those of us whom aren't politically correct enough for you. I stand by my comment. God bless our troops! No matter what their religion may or may not be. Yourself included and thank you for your service for this country.
Phillip Hansen What do you mean "whomever your posting for?" I don't "post for" anyone. These are my own comments and my own experiences I post about. I am a US soldier. I don't know what you were trying to get at and I'm not worried about being PC or anyone else being PC. All I said is that I didn't see it as a "slap in the face" and neither did some of my fellow soldiers. You said "just another slap in the face to Christianity, the US AND our brave soldiers" and I simply disagreed with you about the last part.
A rainbow above the door would never be removed without considerable acusations of bigotry. America need's to take a good hard look at what we call "right" and what we call "wrong".
Rawd Knee – Why would there be a rainbow? And why would anyone remove it? What if some little kids drew a picture for soldiers with a rainbow as a symbol of harmony and peace or something. I know what you're stating the rainbow is a symbol of.
The irony is this, we always associate a chapel with Christianity exclusively! Mosque with Islam, synagogue with Judaism, temple with other faiths such as Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. So the military regulations should change the name of the 'chapel' to some ignominous structure of 'worship', to satisfy the whims of the few who object to Christianity. By far, Christianity is the most dominant religion of the world with over 2 billion Christians. We are commissioned by Christ to spread the gospel and to suffer by martyrdom to get His message out in the dark Christ-less nations. Over 171,000 Christians are martyred each year for their faith, yet the blood of these Christians are seeds in these nations hostile to the Christian message and faith that multiply in the hearts of new converts who see death as a door to the next life [resurrection]. So when Christians are persecuted, the message gets stronger and stronger in the hearts of the unbelievers here and abroad. Amen?
Throw it in the trash can along with some Bibles and make a nice fire. The military is a secular organization just like our Constitution. Keep your putrid and corrupt religious delusions to yourselves.
Also if the chapel was dedicated in September, for whom it was erected? Christians, of course. Another worship center should be erected for other faiths. Amen?
“Military chapels have to be open to all denominations and as such can’t have permanent symbols of one particular religion or another,” Commander Williams Speaks told Fox News.
D Riley Claborn And what are denominations? Christian only, right? Baptist, Catholics, Methodists, etc. Chapels were originally Christian, exclusively, but the name was changed by secular Humanists in government positions to be merely a place of worship for all religions.
D Riley Claborn And what are denominations? Christian only, right? Baptist, Catholics, Methodists, etc. Chapels were originally Christian, exclusively, but the name was changed by secular Humanists in government positions to be merely a place of worship for all religions.
D Riley Claborn It is political correctness that changed the laws concerning chapels…and it did not begin in the eighties on, but before the twentieth century! Chapels were de-Christianized in the late 1800s after the Civil War.
Craig Billingsley. So you're just attempting to be semantically correct? I don't buy it. There are many non Christian soldiers who are every bit as entitled to use the chapel regardless of what it's called. Sorry, but they aren't going away.
D Riley Claborn Another thing, from since the Civil War, military chaplains wear insignias on the top of their shoulders showing the Shepherd's Crook, a symbol of Christ, the Good Shepherd. So what do Imam chaplains, Rabbi chaplains, Buddhist chaplains wear?
Craig Billingsley. A shepard's crook, you say? Since when? Other religions have their own symbols. It's a freedom of religion thing. You may have heard of it.
D Riley Claborn Why do you think a Roman emperor such as Constantine I chose the Cross to fight other Roman emperor, Constantius at the battle of Malvian Bridge? This Cross became the symbol of military religion ever since. Caesars were crucifying, feeding the lions, beheading Christians daily, monthly, annually for sport, shedding blood in the Coliseum up to 300s CE…[not AD, anymore], and now Christianity became the religion of the Roman empire ever since. Christians died daily, but spreads like wildfire the gospel, so many align themselves to Christ rather than the Emperor. To unify his empire, Christianity became the dominant religion over paganism of the emperors and senators. Chapels were erected for the Roman military ever since.
Craig Billingsley. Is that why the Roman empire is still so mighty to this day? Do you know what else Constantine did? The Edict of Milan.
Craig Billingsley – It's at Bagram AFB in AFGHANISTAN. There isn't an abundance of room to build every single religion a building.
Craig Billingsley No denominations do no only exist in Christianity. There are different sects in Judaism. There are different sects in Islam (Sunnis and Shiites to start with) and probably in other religions. But if you want to compare the US to the Roman empire…well I suppose we should then expect our downfall since we all know what happened to Rome.
Wouldn't it have been more honorable to have those who don't see their faith there add there own? Whatever service is being offered if they felt strong enough about it they could add their own symbol. We do this now with flags which seems to honor each nation equally why not with religious symbols?
It is not the Army's job to ensure all denominations are worshiped. It is to protect American way of life which is right now mostly Christian. Although we need to do much better in that area. When the constitution was written and the bill of rights, there was not any other recoginized religions in the country other than Christians. The constitution says the gov. is not to interfere with the free practice of religion and that meant at the time and still does the Christian religion. But the Gov. has turned is all around backwards and that is all they do is interfere. We must stand up against this oppression and treason.
Diane Edwards – If the men and women in uniform aren't taken care of then how are we to protect America? Yeah the Army doesn't have to look out for people's spiritual well being but they know there are spiritual people and that if people's spiritual side is neglected it can affect other aspects – in some people. Now, you also need to take a history class because there were other religions in the US before it was the US and after. Christianity was not the "only recognized" religion. Who told you that? First, Native Americans were here first and I guarantee you they weren't Christian. Secondly, there were Jewish settlers here, there were the Quakers, there were Christians. Many of the Founders were actually not Christian but were deists. Since the 1800s there have been Muslims in the US. There is no "oppression or treason" going on. Christianity does NOT rule this country. No the Constitution does not apply SOLELY to Christianity. Did you go to a private religious school or a public school? I'm confused as to where you learned this information is all.
“Military chapels have to be open to all denominations and as such can’t have permanent symbols of one particular religion or another,” Commander Williams Speaks told Fox News.
Simple and fair. Why is everyone whining?
I served for 7 years on active duty in places like Iraq and Kosovo, and I continue to serve in the National Guard for a total of 10 years now. I have always had an issue with religious services in the Military. Not for the reasons most liberals might side with though. I have an issue because many service members expect these "religious leaders and mentors to protect their privacy and religious rights"; however, these people work and are paid by the Government (Chaplain Corp). I will always be staunchly in support of the military, the majority and war when diplomacy fails, unfortunately You can not really expect Chaplains to follow religious text, i.e. the COMMANDMENT "THOU SHALT HAVE NO GOD BEFORE ME", they will always follow military policy.
That cross should never have been put up in the first place so people need to get over that. This has nothing to do with being politically correct. It is a fiscal matter. By having one building used by all faiths it keeps cost down. Look around your cities at all of the chiurches… now imagine all of those different churches on a military base! Sadly I have had to attend many memorial services at different bases and each was adorned with symbols of the religion of the service memeber that had died and then changed for the next service.. Please remember this….during my 20 yrs I have had Mass in a barracks lounge, mess hall, church, flight deck, hanger bay, airport lounge, and other places. It is not where you worship it is THAT you do. Lack of a cross should never stop anyone.
I served for over 20 years as a Soldier in the US Army. I am also a Pagan. I tire of hearing about how Christians are being attacked. Christianity has attacked those of differing religions since it's inception, and I feel no pity whatsoever. Religious freedom does not simply cover Christianity, but other religions as well. For those of you who depend on icons to feel closer to diety, I recommend you spend a bit more time getting to know your respective God or Goddess in your heart.
ok, I gotta come in and be the rational atheist again…. (obnoxious mother of a toddler voice) why don't you just have EACH symbol? that way everybodys happy? I swear, one more obnoxious news event like this and I'm just going to fake agnosticism so nobody looks at me in the same light as asshole-atheists.
What a crock! The five-pointed star is a "religious" symbol also. Maybe the government should remove them from the general officer(s) who ordered this absurd, PC act!
Also the name of the officer of the chapel is the chaplain. Chaplains should be exclusively Christians, rather than other faiths. Originally, a chaplain was the custodian of St. Martin's cloak in the 4th century, called in Latin, cappellan, later in middle English, chapelain. Historically, chaplains were Christian ecclesiatics or clergymen, just as other faiths have rabbis, imams, etc. Truth is, the original truths were changed to benefit the few. So now chaplains can be rabbis, imams, etc. as well. A total oxymoron, if you tell me.
Craig Billingsley – Why should chaplains be exclusively Christian? There are other religions that are followed by people in the military. So what – their beliefs don't matter? Oh but they can fight, bleed, sacrifice and die but they can't be able to practice their faith or have a chaplain of their faith there to consult with? That is a giant no-go and not what the Founders wanted. Actually the "chaplains" who are of other faiths not Christian don't really call themselves chaplains as far as I know. Some people just boggle my mind.
Kelly Calder IGNORANCE boggles MY mind!
Christine Rene-Howard Yeah like yours and people like you who don't READ things.
better idea–remove the muslim from the white house.
What do you expect when a subversive muslim is illegally seated in the oval office?
A disgrace.
HEY!! Your ignorance is showing!!
@Christine, I take it that you are referring to the MIC.
Acctually I'm referring to your obvious lies. Why can't you people just get over the fact that YOUR president is a BLACK man with?
So, Christine, it's racist to protest the removal of a religious symbol from a chapel? And I guess by that line of reasoning, only white people are upset about it?
Christine! You are actually retarded! Lmao!
Jon K. Mahannah actually my IQ is 140…
Kelly Trafford Marshall no silly, what Clarke said is… It's SO hard to fight hate…
@Christine, 140 what? Marbles inside your cranium?
Christine Rene-Howard I make no mention of color! Only you would ! So you actually took a IQ test to see if you are smart? That's to funny again! Was it the triangle peg game at the Cracker Barrel where you got your results?
Jon K. Mahannah Our president is not a muslim, he's a Christian. And how is it that he's illegally seated? It's not like he was appointed by the Supreme Court…
Christine – he isn't a natural born citizen. Both parents must be US citizen to have that status. Congress was so busy deciding if McCain was eligible they forgot to check out our dear leader.
And he was raised muslim by a muslim step-father, claimed muslim as his religion on his indonesian school registration, and admitted to being muslim in an interview with Stephanopolis. Not a mistake many Christians make. Black liberation theology isn't exactly Christian but makes a good enough cover for anyone trying to pretend to be one and has a reputation for shielding gays on the down low. Coincidentally, the only people in the world he seems to get along with are members of the muslim brotherhood. The supreme court doesn't appoint our presidents, they are elected – Gore supporters don't like to admit he was a loser in more ways than one.
Kelly Trafford Marshall actually Kelly, that's not true. If you are born on American soil, you are an American. Why do you think there are so many anchor babies born here?
Kelly Trafford Marshall and, yes, the Supreme Court did, in fact, decide that election.
Christine, why do you say 'he is a BLACK man?" if you take a white bird and mix it with a black bird you do NOT come up with an all BLACK bird. That is just science. or better yet take white milk and mix with black milk, you do not come up with 100% black milk. and BTW, OVOMIT was NOT born on American soil; Kelly I believe that if you reserach it you will find out that both parents do not have to be American citizens, but the President of the USA has to be born in the USA. According to OVOMIT's aunt, OVOMIT's mother (which was white Christine) was swimming in the ocean when she went in to labor and he was born in Keyan.
Actually, Angie, you need to do some research. The constitution says natural born citizen which was at the time defined by the Law of Nations, and still is. It was further clarified by a supreme court ruling where the court expanded the status to include a child of 2 US citizens born on foreign soil. A native citizen is one who is born on US soil. Anchor babies are not eligible to run for president. This was deliberately done by our founders to prevent a situation like we have today where the president has conflicting priorities. Obama's foreign policy decisions are based on his acting out his anger toward British colonialism. Obama has dual citizenship by birth because his so-called father as a Kenyan was a also British national, so he not only breaks the law but simultaneously demonstrates why the founders made the law to begin with.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/42350
Christine Rene-Howard: Christine, I am personally insulted as a believer in and follower of Jesus Christ whenever the White House Muslim cloaks himself as a Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth. Look at Reverend Wright, his own "spiritual advisor". That man is inherently evil and like his protoge, the MIC, is a hater of America, Christianity and our free society. Your comments are dilusional and when you hurl insults like "your ignorance is showing", take a good log look in the mirror. People like you disgust me. Happy Thanksgiving
Christine Rene-Howard @Christine: Oh! And black has absolutely nothing to do with it.Whenever a liberal cretin loses an argument, one of two things happens: they hurl personal insults, or take the last ditch nuclear option – throw the tired old race card into the fray. Now finish your granola, put on your Birkenstocks and have fun at your Sierra Club meeting.
Christine Rene-Howard , so you pulled a number out of the air attempting to impress. What you fail to acknowledge is that IQ and "emotional maturity" don't go hand in hand. Your seething comments are filled with rage, and remind me of a child in the midst of a temper tantrum. Perhaps you need a bit of R & R, a few deep breaths and loosen your cap.
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
•Anyone born inside the United States *
•Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
•Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
•Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
•Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
•Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
•Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
•A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S
No where in my research can I find where it states BOTH parents of the one running for the USA Presdient has to be a citizen of the USA. ONE parent does have to be a citizen of the USA. But OVOMIT was NOT even born in the USA period, it doesn't matter what his parents were.
@KELLY, this is what I read in your web post above…this is not in the Constitution though is it? This is what Emerich de Vattel defined:
What is a “Natural Born” Citizen?
In drafting the U.S. Constitution, the Founders relied on the work of Swiss philosopher Emerich de Vattel. In his 1758 legal treatise, The Law of Nations, Book One, Chapter 19, in a section titled “Of the citizens and natives,” Vattel defines the term “natural born Citizen” as follows:
“… The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens… The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. I say that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country [emphasis added].”
Yes it is, Angie. That is the whole point. The constitution specifies NATURAL born citizen. Not citizen. The law of nations defines natural born. The founders were very precise in their language. It doesn't matter where Obama was born if Obama Sr was indeed his father.
Being a citizen means you can vote. Being a natural born citizen means you can run for president.
Kelly Trafford Marshall ..what I am saying is that what he wrote is not in the Constitution. No where in the Constitution state that 'both' parents have to be USA citizens. It states that the person running for President of the USA has to be born in the USA. Please tell me where it states both parents have to be a citizen. I am on your side 200% against everything going on in the USA right now, but I can not see in The Constitution where 'both' parents have to be a citizen. Emerich de Vattel did not write nor sign the Constitution, he gave imput only, right? hells bells in the USA the dead even vote, you know that!
Angie – the constitution says NATURAL BORN citizen. The federalist papers discuss why natural born as opposed to just plain citizen. What do you think a natural born citizen is? If you don't know, you could always default to what the supreme court said.
The founders didn't need to say both parents because they had a good vocabulary and knew what natural born meant.
Having the requirement that both parents be US citizens prevented a citizen from having dual citizenship or allegiance to another country. Obama's dad was a British subject. Obama has dual citizenship.
Try this one Angie. Perhaps it will be easier for you to understand. http://larrymwalkerjr.blogspot.com/2009/03/true-definition-of-natural-born-citizen.html
And as far as Vattel is concerned, his Law of Nations was the blueprint for the constitution.
hummm…" The Constitution does not define the phrase natural-born citizen, and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The Congressional Research Service has stated that the weight of scholarly legal and historical opinion appears to support the notion that the term means one who is entitled under the Constitution or laws of the United States to U.S. citizenship "at birth" or "by birth," including any child born "in" the United States (other than to foreign diplomats serving their country), the children of United States citizens born abroad, and those born abroad of one citizen parent who has met U.S. residency requirements."….. Kelly, I am not trying to be disrespectable to you..I am only looking for facts. I am NOT a kool aid drinker, my family has been here since 1681 and I believe in America. I do not believe that someone should be condescending to another when they are trying to find the truth of a statement. I have seen many have conversations on whether or not BOTH parents had to be a citizen of USA. I thought the article you posted stated that OVOMIT does not have duel citizenship anymore; guess I better go back and read that again too.
He did lose duel citizenship and then got it back: he automatically lost his Kenyan citizenship under provisions of Chapter VI, Section 97(1) of the Kenyan Constitution on August 4, 1984, his twenty-third birthday.
However, to complicate matters even further, the constitution adopted by the people of Kenya on August 4, 2010, brought Obama back into the fold by creating a category of Kenyan citizenship called a “citizen by birth.” Chapter 3, Section 14 of the 2010 constitution provides as follows: “A person is a citizen by birth if on the day of the person’s birth, whether or not the person is born in Kenya, either the mother or father of the person is a citizen (of Kenya).
What this tells us is that, since August 4, 2010, as Barack Obama sits in the Oval Office, he has been reinstated as a citizen of Kenya “by birth,” a dual citizen of the United States and Kenya
The Law of Nations is mentioned by name in the constitution in article 1, sect 8.
thank you. I will read it.
I found it rather condescending, Angie, that you told me I needed to do some research on the subject because I was wrong. The whole reason the founders used the term natural born citizenship was to avoid the exact issue you are struggling with – is he or is he not beholden to a foreign power. The use of the term is clear. It is the only place that particular qualification is specified. There is plenty of commentary on it. Recent "conversations" on the topic are clearly in conflict with traditional interpretation and are obviously self-serving.
America should go ahead and make Christianity an illegal religion then the vision of World Wide Communism would be complete.
Just some idiot officer with nothing better to do, and has likely been non-productive during his deployment. During Desert Storm, they made the chaplains remove the cross from their uniform so it wouldn't offend other religions. Really! This country was based on Christianity, time to get back to our roots, or fold and be taken over by Islamic fundamentalists. Which by the way is already happening? Be careful who you vote for this time America!
Actually this country was based on FREEDOM OF RELIGION… get your history right please…
The military had a regulation. The military followed its regulation. Some self-entitled individual is whining about it. Yawn.
You know, the chaplain of this chapel is Vietnamese, and he says this chapel should be a worship center for people coming together to worship and 'offer sacrifices of praise'. Indeed, it really is getting to that, that our praises to Christ is a sacrifice, especially out in the open public square, where offended people will pass laws limiting our Christian faith to a private home or church. Lord Jesus says you have the Light of Christ in you, so put that Light in the open to light up the dark world for all to see. If we die for Christ, then our deaths are not in vain, our bodies are crucified, our souls will rest in Christ, we will worship Him all the more with great joy in Heaven. This world is where we must vouchsafe our integrity with all due haste like Job did when attacked by Satan and his minions. When persecution rises against us and all fellow Christians, our fight is not against the flesh and blood, but against the principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, and against the spiritual wickedness in high places. [Eph. 6:12] So praising God will indeed be a sacrifice if it be toward His Son, Jesus Christ our Savior. Amen?
I'm a retired Master Sergeant, And have never heard any complaints durning my 21 years from volunteers or drafties about symbols being displayed in the post chaples around the world. We are all brothers and sisters who respect, support and defend each other. I'm a catholic, I have no problem if the Star of David or any other symbol is displayed. I do thank God so manney of our troops have religon.
The cross is the symbol of the ultimate sacrifice…what was meant as the ultimate punishment during Alexander the Great's time and continued by the Roman Caesars…became the symbol of Christianity. The cross offends many, many people…and it should! What was meant as a grave warning by the Romans, remains a grave warning to all that to be offended by the cross is death, and embracing the cross is life, willing to die for the sake of the cross of Jesus Christ. Our life is transcient, our world is passing away soon…all the experts are saying this…so it verifies the Scripture. We must make up our minds now, and crucify our lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, and the pride of life, then live by the Word of God…for it is written, 'man shall not live by bread alone, but every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.' Amen?
I complained once in basic training, the next night I had a blanket party… never complained again.
Some day every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, military regulations, and all other religions will be gone and forgotten and everyone who has ever been born will kneel at the feet of Jesus Christ.
I surely hope not and I definitely never would kneel to anyone or anything. I don't do it now, I won't ever. Good luck with that though.
It‘s amazing that for an atheist group to get so apoplectic over the cross representing a God they say they don’t believe in, when in reality they just don‘t want to be reminded there IS a God and if he’s being represented by the cross their conscience gets the better of them every time. That proves they really do believe there is a God.
Paul Nelms Where in the article did it say anything about atheists being the ones who complained? It didn't say who – just that questions were raised when the cross was put up a MONTH ago. So it hasn't even been there this whole time – oh and it's in Afghanistan on a base where there is not a lot of room so they have to hold ALL worship in ONE building. It's pretty simple.
Kelly Calder someday you will,you will not have a choice,it will be at the great white throne judgement, someday this reply will come back to you in memory and in torment.
Tim N Judith Ohhh no – I know what it means when someone tells you to get on your knees. I'm not playing that game…no sir!
like I said, some day this will come back to haunt you if you have a Bible look up Revelation 20;11-15
Tim N Judith Only a few things can happen if someone orders you to your knees – and they're never good…no thank you. If there is a god and I meet it and it tells me to get on my knees, im gonna be like "oh no – I'm on to you."
Once we all agree that we are unapologetically and unequivically a Christianity Nation, period. Amen. Hallelujah…. Who gets to decide which denominations make the cut? Whose Church qualifies as being "Christian" enough? Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses…. if we choose for example: to be Baptists…which branch? Southern? 7th Day?, New Grace? who has it right? Perhaps only the Amish have what it takes? Yea, that's it……Perhaps only the truly, Truly, TRULY devout should be allowed to stay… "Speak Amish or Die"… that'll be our battle cry, our credo, our very own "Sieg Heil" if you will… All of the Sunday morning/Wednesday evening part time slackers will have to convert and conform or leave.
Nothing left but True (Red, White and) Blue Christian Fundementalism… that's the only way we can truly be sure that no Liberal mentality is left to polute the soul of this Great Nation of ours. Although, we may have to run off those Mennonites eventually, but we'll deal with that after the rest of the "other people" have been purged).
Alternatively, we could just accept that not everyone worships in the same manner and respect that "other persons" right to do so in the manner they see fit.
All we can do is pray for America. Next it will be off with our heads. End times are near folks, just prepare your self and your family. Amen.
The U.S. Army has been transformed into an "Army of One," the politically correct Obama army. Until this regime that rules against the will of the people is gone, you will never "Be All That You Can Be."
James, excellent point. As I've articulated on previous articles, stories and threads, in a matter of a few short years, our nation has become "WUSSIFIED" – the fear of being "politically correct" to the current "politically challenged." we're at a precipice and taking minute steps, because what remains is a long drop to the bottom. With the shroud of darkness, and the dawn of each day, fragments of dust and pebbles are eroding, and we'll find ourselves unable to tread.
Give the chapel to the Germans , problem solved cross put back up.
Regulations–Smegulation! All religious symbols should be allowed, or none should be allowed. What ever happened to freedom of expression; not to mention freedom of religion? Can military chaplins still wear a cross on their uniform? If I were at war in the middle east, I would want to have a cross to turn to in countries where even the clothes that the "frienamies" wear are symbols of their religion.
The sad thing about this is that those who typically want the cross removed because it offends them (they say they don't believe in God) is that they're not telling the truth. They do know there is a God. http://atheistlegitimacy.blogspot.com/
THEE reason( not understood) the Cross and Christians are under attack….is the POWER in the truth. Of what the Cross represents, means and has accomplished.If it was without Salvation power and we true Christians were without impact in the demonic world….there we be NO need of opposition! The Cross, of the only true living resurrected Savior, and the true believers and followers of Jesus Christ our Savior, ARE the light in the darkness…the darkness hates the light… and all events like this, and more to come, stand in testimony, of the this truth.WE may appear as sheep to unknowing deceived world…but vengeance is reserved for The LORD.We already know the victory won, the world shall enough ponder the seeds that we have sown in truth and righteousness in Jesus Christ. " To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" Revelation 5:13.
Jesus said that the world would hate us because of our love for Christ, its all just signs of the times!
sad but true. we will even loose contact with family members if we do say it is ok for them to be gay, or homosexual. We will be called haters if we do not approve of participate in certain groups because it goes against our christian beliefs. It is all just signs of the time. I do not care…I will not say something is right if it is wrong according to Jesus. Not according to me, but according to Jesus. I wil always say merry CHRISTmas. I will never shrink from Jesus and what he says.
sad but true. we will even loose contact with family members if we do say it is ok for them to be gay, or homosexual. We will be called haters if we do not approve of participate in certain groups because it goes against our christian beliefs. It is all just signs of the time. I do not care…I will not say something is right if it is wrong according to Jesus. Not according to me, but according to Jesus. I wil always say merry CHRISTmas. I will never shrink from Jesus and what he says.