Mar 1, 2012
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The University of North Carolina-Greensboro has ordered a Christian club to allow non-Christians as leaders and members, according to a federal lawsuit filed Wednesday.
“The university has given itself the authority to determine whether a group is religious or not,” said Jeremy Tedesco, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund.
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Tedesco filed suit on behalf of “Make Up Your Own Mind,” a Christian club that was denied an exemption from the university’s nondiscrimination policy.
UNC-Greensboro’s nondiscrimination policy includes an exemption for student organizations that select their members based on a shared set of beliefs.
Tedesco said “Make Up Your Own Mind” has a clear religious mission and purpose and requires its members and leaders to agree with its statement of faith and beliefs about the value of innocent human life.
“Saying that a Christian club isn’t religious is flatly absurd, especially when the university has granted its belief-based exception to numerous other clubs,” he said. “The First Amendment forbids the government from determining what is and what is not ‘religious,’ yet the university is doing exactly this by telling a Christian group that it is not religious.”
However, the university contends that the club is not affiliated with a church – and therefore doesn’t meet their criteria for exemption.
A university spokesperson told Fox News they had not seen the lawsuit and would not comment.
“It’s not discrimination for a religious group to say we want to be led by people who agree with our religion,” Tedesco said.
He said religious groups are getting excluded under non-discrimination policies.
“What we are seeing on public university campuses is religious groups routinely getting denied recognition,” he said. “They are denied access to a speech forum that is opened to all other student organizations on campus.”
The university, Tedesco said, must be stopped.
“We should get very nervous when the government decides it has the authority to determine what is and what isn’t religious,” he said. “That’s a dangerous concept.
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Given the lack of intellectual integrity amongst UNC-Greensboro leadership, I think that college is off the list of schools our kids will be looking at. A school that so blatantly ignores the foundation upon which our country is built (aka the 1st Amendment) is unlikely to provide a worthwhile education. Probably pay a pile of money for a second rate pile of "politically correct" indoctrination. No thanks.
My daughter went there for a year back in the 1990's. BAD choice. She then transferred to a private Methodist College in another city. She was bullied at UN-Greensboro because she would not attend wild parties IN the dorms. The dorms filthy and the police were there often on drug sweeps. It was NOT pretty. STAY away from there!
I'll bet there's a Muzzie Club out there. I hope the lawsuit is succesful and some honest judge is going to ram a 2×4 up their collegiate heinies.
There's a lot of information missing from this "story," and a lot of people filling in the missing details with their own assumptions. Perhaps Mr. Starnes is more interested in stoking his followers' anger than journalism. What is this club all about anyway? How big is this club? How long has it been around? Why is it so important to the club founder to have "Christian" leaders but not any affiliation with a church? Why not form the club off-campus? What if a non-Christian agreed with what the club stands for and wants to be involved? Would that be a bad thing? And last but not least, yes who chose to relentlessly judge others despite the teachings of your religion, what's a Christian, anyway? It seems a lot of folks question the President's faith eventhough he prays daily and attends church more often than the majority of Christians. The "War on Religion" is a straw man. Stick to your faith, and keep it out of politics please. God doesn't bless partisanship.
The Islamic cult is not affiliated with a single Mosque. Just united in hate.
Disband or at least make the administration think that you did, and go into the catacombs of the mountains of North Carolina… Just like the Christians did in Rome….
OK, but they'll need to force women's groups to allow male leaders; force Muslim groups to allow Jewish leaders; force the admissions department to accept high school drop outs; force parenting clubs to accept pedophiles; and, of course, force atheist groups to accept Christian leaders. What a bunch of unfunny clowns!
Two cannibals are eating a liberal clown. One turns to the other and asks "Does this taste unfunny to you?".
Only one question….. Are the Mus lim and other religious organizations and clubs going to be ordered to do the same?
I hate to say it, but I bet a lot of women think this attack on Make Up Your Own Mind is perfectly legitimate because it's an attack on christians – just like sexism is never sexism when a woman does it to a male colleague or to a male student. in 2012 america, some groups are more equal than others – and we all think that's just peachy.
and Bailey Bednar, please do not have children; you're too stupid to have them and we have enough tax consumers as it is.
There are a lot of unanswered questions in this article, and I believe they're unanswered in order to provoke/generate an emotionally-charged argument. Mainly: has a non-Christian actually attempted to become a "leader" of this club? What are the requirements to become a leader? I would assume that the leadership of any campus group would be voted on by the group members. Therefore, if a Christian-affiliated club voted a non-Christian into its leadership, would it not be their own doing? Likewise, if a non-Christian simply wanted to attend/become a member, should the group have a right to turn them away if the group uses university facilities to host their meetings? The article doesn't explain the university's anti-discrimination policy either, and you'll see that the title itself is a quote from the suing attorney, not a statement from the university or a court system. Essentially, my point is that this article's sole purpose is to generate a heated argument (which it obviously has) and not to actually discuss the facts behind the issue.
The article clearly states that if they were affiliated with a church it wouldnt be an issue but the right wing nut jobs are out in full force today
Karam Tascoe Did you read the comment? Or do you just want to start a heated argument too?
I think the affiliation-policy may be an attempt by the university to prevent EVERY student group from filing for an exemption to the anti-discrimination policy. I completely agree that a government or university should NEVER be allowed to impede on the freedom of religion or practice thereof, but on the other side of the argument they need to have some policies in place to not go down the slippery slope of every group filing for religious status. There are definitely groups out there that would love the idea of filing as a religious group for the sole purpose of getting around anti-discrimination policies. Doesn't the KKK consider themselves a "religious" organization? Extreme example, I know, but it's out there.
Aiyana Thaxton Let me put it in quotes for you, "However, the university contends that the club is not affiliated with a church – and therefore doesn’t meet their criteria for exemption."
Aiyana Thaxton That means they dont qualify! Its not that difficult. Trying being like Jesus instead of the religious fanatics that were more interested in the law!
Aiyana Thaxton That means they dont qualify! Its not that difficult. Trying being like Jesus instead of the religious fanatics that were more interested in the law!
Why is it that there is LULAC, all African American Colleges and scholarships, and other discriminating organizations in this country when we are supposed to be about no-discrimination yet a religiuos organization is required to allow others in that do not believe the same thing? I am so tired of the double standards. My husband can't get assistance for school because he is a white male, but I can due to being a female. If Hispanics (that aren't even citizens) can have a own group protecting rights that they should not be entitled to, then this group of people should be able to do the same. Make a decision – either we are for or against discrimination – and make it final. Quit with the excuses and the exceptions. All or nothing.
Aimee, I call that an absolute lie that your husband cant get assistance to school because he is a white male. Spread your hate else where.
Aimee, I call that an absolute lie that your husband cant get assistance to school because he is a white male. Spread your hate else where.
Karam Tascoe, how do you know that it a lie?
George Steele because its not true. Since when was financial aid denied because of race? Its a lie. Put your facts where your mouth is if they exist.
Karam Tascoe While she is probably technically incorrect (it's probably income based), it doesn't mean you are automatically right. Circular logic doesn't work for either party.
And it IS possible that he was denied funding because of the preference for assisting minorities first…not sure how likely that is, but sure it is possible.
Riley Secrist I am 100% positive that he was not denied federal financial aid because he was a white male which is what the original poster stated. She didnt mention income so why would you bring that into the equation. I think she knows what she meant.
Karam Tascoe If you weren't busy shadowboxing on the internet, you'd realize I was agreeing with you. Try pulling some punches and read next time.
Riley Secrist I will admit I do enjoy boxing with conservative's! They fold easy under the immense pressure of my attack.
Would muslim organizations find it acceptable for Christian's to Join? I do not think so!~!
Would muslim organizations find it acceptable for Christian's to Join? I do not think so!~!
I suppose that the moslim club will have non-moslim leaders then…
I suppose that the moslim club will have non-moslim leaders then…
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We Christians are fighting this in the wrong arena. People like Bailey Bednar and Ryan McCracken are example of people that have been led astray by the real enemy. Their insults are not our concern, so do not argue with them. There are Proverbs that warn against that. Instead, we should focus on the real problem. Where are our lives headed, and how do we relate to Christ? Our enemy is at work, and he is doing his deeds masterfully. I SAY ALLOW NON CHRISTIAN MEMBER AND LEADERS IN. Allow them the experience of God's love and let the HolySpirit do the rest. Remember we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the pricipalities of darkness. Our fighting is done on our knees in prayer for those that toil against us. Remember David and his respect for Saul, even during the aggression towards him. We are not being killed by lions, we are not being burned at the stake. We are being confronted by real people who do not buy our beliefs. This is nothing new. Respond in love. Turn the other cheek and lift it up to God.
Well said Nathan!
Well said Nathan!
WOW . . . I'm impressed!
I agree with allowing non-Christian members, but I do not want someone who is not Christian to determine how to teach people about Christianity. The only way to spread light is to already have some of it.
Wow! No other words needed!
Aiyana Thaxton The school is only saying that religion can't be used as a prerequisite for someone to hold an office in a club. No one is saying that people have to vote for those people.
I couldn't agree more!
Unfortunately, turning the other cheek will bring the lions and the stake burning, just like what happened when the early christians didn't fight back. There is a time for cheek turning and a time for taking up the sword and doing battle. Don't confuse the two. Our enemies will take kindness for weakness and choose to advance upon us. It is time to rise up and make a stand.
The humanist taliban strikes again. People want God out of the square, ok, then you will have a vacuum and the humanist mindset will fill that vacuum with dangerous consequences for everyone in this country.
Third Reichism?
Every day, it seems more like Alice in Wonderland in this country!
Same thing is going on at Vanderbilt University in Nashville Tn. There they are trying to make it a hate crime for teachers to belong to churches that don't believe in homosexuality. There seems to be a huge push on at these schools to oust Christians who hold views they disagree with. If I was a student or had a student in one of these schools They would be seeing the last of my money!
Great comments. When I was a CLS leader, we invited non believers to attend our meetings, but if asked we'd prefer Christians leadership. We had to sue for equal access even though religious discrimination against adult college religious student organizations had been rebuked by SCOTUS in Widmar v. Vincent 6 years before we sued then and won. 30 years post Widmar, we are still fighting to speak freely w/o government interference. These exclusions, denials and repressive manipulations by higher ed busybodies of private speech is a relentless attack on Christ and our outreach to young minds. We will be fighting for our right and indeed duty to speak until the end. Thank God for God and having the First Amendment! We need more Scalias, Alitos, Roberts and Thomases if religious liberty is to remain in America.
This has very little to do with religion, despite what people are being led to believe. Its really about the right of association, to either associate with those that YOU choose to associate with or NOT associate with…if the university gets away with this, they can force you to associate or NOT associate with anyone they see fit…the left always does this, uses a smokescreen to get their way…honesty cannot work and they know it, ever since the days of V.I. Lenin.
are the non christian groups (aka muslim)allowing christians in?
what goes around comes around, straight people want to sit in on gay clubs, they want to club with gays.
I want to sit in and be aloud to join the white house group in private session also. good luck huh?
The politically correct central planners at the university issued their decree:The students are no longer free to choose who they wish to associate with.
Soon Muslims can be priest too and Teach Islam in our church, the way America surrender its values and collapses in the hands non-infidals.
Christianity in a nutshell:
"I am going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I am going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself. To save you from the sin I originally condemned you to."
If they were connected to a church like Rev. Wright's or Louis Farrakhans, they would be allowed to choose their members.
The University needs to check out the book in its own Library called the "Dictionary" and look up the word "Christian"…..
Chris·tian (krschn).
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
~~~~~~
What part of 'religion based on the life and teaching of Jesus' do they not understand?
I bet they wouldn't make an African American club include non-AAs. Does the athiest club need to include us? Ya, I didn't think so! UGH.
Denise Landmeier Rose They would have to. I have a Vietnamese friend who is real shy, and wanted me to go with him to join the Vietnamese Student Association. They allowed me in, but I am 100% sure that if they didn't and I went and filed a complaint they would have to allow me.
Psst. University rules say you must be affiliated with a church. Know why you have to be? Seriously. Do any of you know the legal reasons why? If not ya might want to look it up. The school is on solid ground here. I do wonder if they will cave in though. Hope not. If you do not understand why this is such a bad idea might want to do a little digging. It has nothing to do with denying any bone-fide religion/religious group their just due.
When they affiliate with a church they can loose members or not gain any more from a denomination that is not part of that church or people who do not go there.
That can be a hesitation unless there is a non-denominational church close by to affiliate with who is willing to have a presence on campus as well. I am willing to bet a few pastors from several churches in the area are already present or speak at the club.
Why not just affiliate with a local church and problem solved! C'mon folks read then entire article.
"However, the university contends that the club is not affiliated with a church – and therefore doesn’t meet their criteria for exemption."
Why not just affiliate with a local church and problem solved! C'mon folks read then entire article.
Why not force the UNC football team to start females or make the Academic team play poor performing student. Obviously, the club stops serving its purpose when it has to make those who are opposed to its mission its leaders. It seems that the university has a subversive agenda in that it wants to shut down the club. By the way, InterVaristy, Campus Crusade, and a host of other religious organizations do not belong to a denomination. Once again, generous pluralism rather than secularism should be the driving force.
Why not force the UNC football team to start females or make the Academic team play poor performing student. Obviously, the club stops serving its purpose when it has to make those who are opposed to its mission its leaders. It seems that the university has a subversive agenda in that it wants to shut down the club. By the way, InterVaristy, Campus Crusade, and a host of other religious organizations do not belong to a denomination. Once again, generous pluralism rather than secularism should be the driving force.
and the democrats will allow a republican leader next right?
At some point, someone will have to stand and call a halt to this nonsense. The insidious encroachment of government into religious affairs will not stop unless we force the issue.
would you rather die believing there is a God only to find out there isn't? or would you rather die believing there isn't a God only to find out there is? if you choose the first option then you've lost nothing but think long and hard about what you stand to lose if you choose the second option…
So with that "logic" so many of the teachers should not have degrees, I would say they are violating STUPID but they seem to be supportting that.
This is just WRONG! How can ANY group of people be FORCED to have a leader that DOESN'T believe in THEIR VISION? Our Constitution is being ERODED AWAY. Gov'm forcing their way into what's appropriate for a Religious activity(1st Amendment), taking away our 2nd Amendment Rights, and Illegal Searches for the good of all (our 4th amendment) – recent cellphone searches WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. Where is the outcry?
I was really pissed that the government forced our local KKK to install a Black Panther as head of our chapter.
Look, anyone who has read my previous posts knows that I am all about religious equality, separation of church and state, and keeping religion out of government. However, this is over the line. I believe that anyone of any religion should be able to JOIN a religious organization. To me, it promotes acceptance, education and brotherhood. It is a good way for people to learn about and understand other religions so that some of the hate and intolerance can start going away. However, religious groups and organizations should be able to expect that their leadership consists only of members of that religion. It is just plain common sense. Why would you want a Pagan as an officer or leader of a Christian organization or vice versa? I want the people running the organization to be well versed and studied and experienced in that religion to ensure that the organization is being properly led toward its stated goals. That is not discrimination. That is the way it should be.
This university is just stupid. By the same token, they should sue black student groups and force them to allow Grand Dragons of the Ku Klux Klan as their leaders. Or sue any rape victim groups and force them to allow convicted rapists as leaders. This isn't a matter of religious persecution as much as a school which has idiots ruling it. Fire these administrators for gross incompetence…
The University of North Carolina-Greensboro has ordered a Christian club to allow non-Christians as leaders and members, according to a federal lawsuit filed Wednesday.
Why not use this as a way to teach christian values? At some point in all our lives none of us were christians! If you exclude non believers then what have you accomplished? If they are thursty let them drink from the well of life! John 4:9 – 15 It didn't matter to Jesus that she was a Samaritan, or that she was a woman, or that she was a sinner. When he looked at her he saw her as a person created in the image of God. Jesus cares about everyone!
I think it is great to allow everyone who wants to join to be able to do so as long as they are aware of the mission statement of the group and abide by it's rules. But to force a group to make non-Christians leaders is ridiculous. That would change the whole dynamic of the group which I suppose is their whole intent.
This is one of the stupidest decisions I've ever heard about. ALL clubs exist for the sole purpose of uniting like-minded people with other like-minded people. A person with no musical background cannot logically head up the glee club and a person with no journalistic knowlege cannot logically head up the university's newspaper. It is ludicrous to place restraints on a christian club simply because it is non-denominational and not affiliated with any one church. It is obviously a belief-based club. This just goes to prove that too much learning makes people lose what little common sense they might have had earlier in their lives.