Nov 3, 2011
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A standoff over prayers at a school flagpole is looming between a longtime Baptist preacher and a Florida public school system.
Ron Baker, the pastor of Russell Baptist Church in Green Cove Springs, said he plans to keep on praying, regardless of what happens.
“Did you ever think that in America you’d be in trouble for praying at the flag?” Baker told Fox News. “It’s disturbing.”
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Baker was referring to a legal opinion submitted by the Clay County School Board’s attorney and published in Jacksonville.com. The attorney determined that a series of prayers on the grounds of four schools was a violation of the U.S. Constitution. The attorney further declared that the prayers were a clear endorsement of religion and Christianity.
“It is a violation of the United States Constitution for a teacher, school administrator or other school district employee to join in a prayer session during their work time,” wrote J. Bruce Bickner in a story that appeared on Jacksonville.com.
Bickner did not return telephone calls or emails seeking comment.
“I never thought I’d ever see that happen in America,” Pastor Baker told Fox News. “Maybe in North Korea or China or Russia – but not America.”
For quite some time Pastor Baker has been praying at all four of Clay County’s schools. Normally he’s joined by church members, parents, grandparents and students – offering thanks to God around each school flagpole.
But the Baptist preacher said all that changed when an atheist group complained – leading to the ban.
“Who would have thought when you’re praying for the safety of the school, the students and respecting the teachers and faculty – that that would be deemed as wrong and impermissible?” he wondered.
Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, told Jacksonville.com that their complaints would be satisfied so long as the early morning prayers were halted.
“I’m just so pleased to see that someone else has some legal common sense,” she told the newspaper.
The pastor said he’s contacted the American Center for Law and Justice – and was told that his prayers are indeed – Constitutional.
“I don’t feel I did anything wrong and I don’t feel any need to stop,” he said.
So on Monday morning at 8:15 a.m., Pastor Baker said he will be at the flagpole at Clay Hill Elementary School – in defiance of the school attorney.
“I’m not going to stop,” he said. “We’ll be praying.”
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I wish I lived close, I would be at the Schools JOINING them in PRAYER. God's people need to be there and SUPPORT him in doing what GOD has called him to do. There is ALSO, the thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH, it just so happens that he is Presenting his SPEECH in a PRAYER form. If you are affraid to Pray ANYWHERE at ANYTIME then you are just as wrong as those who are fighting it. I have seen how our schools have gone DOWNHILL since prayer was taken out. This is AMERICA and we do have FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Those who do not like it have other options. They can avoid the areas where the prayers are taking place OR… they can simply LEAVE AMERICA and go to one of those countries that don't allow FREEDOM OF RELIGION. They would fit in well there and never have to deal with PRAYING again, and good luck with your future without it.
Amen.
Cynthia Gallaher Hey Cynthia,I researched the word hypocrite and the definition is -A person who pretends to have virtues,moral or religious beliefs,principles,etc.,that he or she does not actually posess,especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.Can you tell me what shred of evidence you have that Pastor Baker doesn't live the life he professes?Do you know him personally?Do you know what his heart is towards God?Character assasination.That's all you've done for two days.Man looks at the outward appearance but it is God who looks inward at the heart.Pastor Baker may be praying for you?
Cynthia Gallaher – many of us have answered you, Ms. Gallaher. You don't want to hear it. Enough said!
Cheryl Avery —- Get off your high horse. How do you know you're "god's people" or that "god called" him. If I was an omnipotent being I would definitely not have Christians as my chosen people. If you read your own damn bible, Jesus says prayer is to be done in private. You do have freedom of religion – and people also have freedom of NON-religion. Why should someone non-religious have to avoid an area in a PUBLIC school which they attend that is having a prayer? Why isn't the damn church good enough to hold a prayer in? How can you tell American citizens not practicing a religion to "just leave if they don't like it?" The Founding Fathers did NOT start this country so people like YOU could ostracize non-religious people. Such a freakin hypocrite…
Cynthia Gallaher – again, what I'm saying is that you are picking a verse out without bothering to read the context of the situation and thus completely misinterpreting Jesus was saying. Do I really need to cut and paste every comment that the many posters here have said to you today? Come on. And I may be repeating myself here, but it is REMARKABLE that you feel so well-studied on God's Word that you can be judging Christians on their obedience to Christ? Have you found any verses on that subject (judging)?
Stacie Moellendorf Actually I have yet to hear anyone answer Cynthia, but that doesn't surprise me.
I guess Obama and his liberal idiots are the only ones that can violate the constitution. God bless you preacher. Keep up the good work.
Spoken like a true christian hypocrit!
Please keep on PRAYING Pastor Baker.
We stand behind you Pastor Baker. Ironic isn't it that a person who doesn't acknowledge God demands that no one else does so either, yet NO ONE who believes in God demands that everyone believe in God also. Those of us who believe in God respect other peoples beliefs, so why can't they respect ours. This is not about something being constitutional or not it's about the freedom from religion foundation not wanting any of us to show our respect and acknowledgement of God in any public building.
I believe there are a lot more regilious people than atheist so if they don't want us to be able to pray in places our tax dollars support then maybe we should let them finance 100% of all public buildings. Bet that would shut them up quickly.
Pastor Baker, I hope you are reading all this.Jesus said broad is the road to destruction, meaning the masses are on it, so when you look around and find you aren't followed by popular opinion…you are probably on the right road.God bless you and your ministry.Paul said in Romans 1;16 Ford I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation}for deliverance from eternal death}to everyone who believes with a personal trust and confident surrender to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Before I formed you in the womb I knew and approved of you, and before you were born I separated and set you apart-Jeremiah 1.
See then he knows and approves homosexuals too!
If I lived there, I would love to be there praying with him.
Then, the atheist that started that law for that school should be replaced.
Christians have as much right to pray as the atheists have the right to not pray. However, what right do they have to take away our choice to worship? I, personally, do not condone their lack of belief. We have already had to "exit the building" in order to worship in school. At one time we had a moment of prayer at the start of school every morning, a practice we took for granted when I was growing up. Thank you Pastor Baker for standing up for your beliefs. I think it is time we take back our rights. Would all atheists please exit the COUNTRY?
Sharon Lee – PUBLIC schools funded by the government are no place for ANY religion. I am not an atheist but I am not a follower of any religion because, quite frankly, not one of them makes any sense to me. If someone wants religion mixed in with their education, go to a PRIVATE religious school. Otherwise, public school is not there for religion. I went to public school with no religion mixed in and I turned out fine. What harm does it do this pastor to have a prayer for the schools at his place of worship? Or in a prayer group before or after school OR somewhere off campus during school? Why does it have to be at the flagpole? Read the other comment about Matthew 6: 5-7 – Jesus himself said prayer should be done in private. Some people need to read their own damn religious texts…
No one is taking away your right to pray! If you want to pray at school go to a private catholic/christian school, my tax dollars don't want your prayer at my childs public school!
Dear God, adults are disgusting. This is SCHOOL. We go to school to get an EDUCATION, not to preach the word of God. That's what private Catholic schools are for. Public schools are funded by the government and last time I checked, we're a secular nation. I don't have a problem with God, I just believe that there is a time and place for everything and praying at school is not the place for it to be happening. We don't teach religion in school, so why does this man think that he could pray in school like that? It's obnoxious. Stop arguing over your beliefs and stop shoving your religion down everyone's throat. Not everyone believes in the same thing and you have to be respectful- you wouldn't like it if a bunch of Atheists went down to the flagpole every morning and spoke about how insane it is to believe in rules from a book that's thousands of years old.
State and federally supported colleges are adding prayer rooms for Muslims. How long before this will happen at high schools?
Then wil Annie Laurie Gaylor say the same thing? Doubtful.l
State and federally supported colleges are adding prayer rooms for Muslims. How long before this will happen at high schools?
Then wil Annie Laurie Gaylor say the same thing? Doubtful.l
Again – where are these colleges? First it was high schools now it's colleges? I have not heard about that. The only thing I heard was at a CATHOLIC university some Muslim students wanted a prayer room because the Catholic images "offended" them. That is ridiculous – it's a private Catholic university so there will be Catholic images. I'm not sure why a Muslim would go there but in that case, it's ridiculous to cry for "equal" prayer rooms because it's a PRIVATE institution.
My Body is a Temple of the Lord, follow the law and keep your state off my Church!
What do they want from this pastor? What's he doing that's so wrong? He is not IN the school building. He is OUTSIDE the building. He is not infringing on school time. He is doing what every good Pastor should do- look ater his flock and care for the strays. HEY, they have a Prayer Service at the opening of Congressional Session and invoke the Name of God….then, again, Congress needs all the Divine Help it can get. And let us all say AMEN to that. But Leve the Pastor alone! This is the opinion of an American Jew! An attack on one of Abraham's family (Christian, Jew, Moslem) is an attack on ALL of us.
I don't know a better way to start a school day than with some words of gratitude to GOD for keeping us safe, letting us live in a free country… and all the other blessings we enjoy. This Jew is on the Pastor's side and the Atheists be damned. Majority Rules. You don't like King James, I'll buy you some earplugs! But don't EVER tell me I cannot Pray!
IfI lived near these schools, I'd be all over this. People in Florida need to stand with this preacher. Lawyers are getting the God of the Bible banned, yet school systems are creating prayer rooms so that Muslim students can pray 5 times a day! Anyone else see something very wrong with this picture? When your kids are forced to submit to Islam, will you stand up then? Is that what it'll take? That day is coming if we don't stand now…
IfI lived near these schools, I'd be all over this. People in Florida need to stand with this preacher. Lawyers are getting the God of the Bible banned, yet school systems are creating prayer rooms so that Muslim students can pray 5 times a day! Anyone else see something very wrong with this picture? When your kids are forced to submit to Islam, will you stand up then? Is that what it'll take? That day is coming if we don't stand now…
What schools are creating Islamic prayer rooms?
Billy, I can see where you are coming from. Your right that on a Federal level we cannot endorse a religion because at one time the so called church ruled with an iron fist and persecuted its citizens, however the constitution does not disallow public prayer and there are no constitutional amendments forbiding public prayers. In all fairness all people of all religions should have the right to pray openly without fear of persecution. This is what our constitution guarantees. I would like to also add that because I become a school teacher that does not negate my rights as an individual to pray in public. Keith your response deserves no response! I only engage meaningful debate such as style of Billy Tennery.
I agree Aaron but you do not trample on the rights of the majority to satisfy a few, that defies logic. What I am saying is that the Federal Government should not tell anyone of any faith where or how they should pray. If the pastor is not allowed to pray at that flag pole then his rights are being violated and that my friend is wrong. As you said, all peoples rights are protected.
Michael Weaver —- how are their rights "violated" when told not to pray on school grounds? If there can't be student led prayers at graduations on school property, there shouldn't be prayers either. That pastor's rights are NOT violated because he has a multitude of options to choose from to make these prayers. Does the location affect how the prayer reaches god? I have asked this question a lot on here and no one has answered it: Can't he pray for the school at the church? At a prayer group in his home? At another building? What is so special about the flag pole? The American flag does not have anything to do with religion. When I salute the flag, I am saluting what America stands for which is a MIXTURE of different religions, cultures, ideologies, etc, etc. But no one is trampling on his rights. He can pray anywhere else. But a public school is government funded. Why does religion need to be at a public school?
And they have overcome him by means of the blood of the Lamb and by the utterance of their testimony, for they did not love and cling to life even when faced with death.Revelation 12 v 11.
These Christains are not Americans, for if they were they would believe in our Constitution and not an ancient book of silly, infantile, superstitious beliefs.
That's a choice called sin.
I thank God whom I worship with a pure conscience in the spirit of mmy fathers, when without ceasing I remember you night and day in my prayers.-2 Timothy 1 v 3.
GOD BLESS YOU PASOR. GOD WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE. THE DAY IS COMMING WHEN EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TOUNG SHALL CONFESS, SO YA MIGHT AS WELL LEARN TO PRAY NOW FOR SOON YOU WILL CRY FOR THE ROCKS AND MOUNTIANS TO FALL ON YA. GOD HAVE MERCY ON THE ONES WHO DOn't NEED HIM NOW.
Cynthia, what persons right am I trampling on by saying a prayer at a flag pole. I am not asking or forcing anyone to watch or join, that would be violating a persons rights. Its about free will and less government intrusion. You are correct, protect EVERYONES RIGHTS! I DO NOT advocate teaching religion in the class room, only the right to express ones religion openingly. By the way the animal rights groups would not allow innocent animals to be harmed in that way! Please compare apples to apples! Any faith that does not practice murder or killings should be able, in this country, to express their faith without fear of persecution. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu etc…
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. Enjoy, sir, your insensibility of feeling and reflecting. It is the prerogative of animals. And no man will envy you these honors, in which a savage only can be your rival and a bear your master. – Thomas Paine.
Look I'm a christian so I don't disagree with the idea of see you at the pole, but I also agree with the idea of religious freedom, I can't threaten someone or be full of hate toward them or beat them over the head with my beliefs because they do not share them, if the idea is to win people to Christ then I don't think we'll accomplish it that way. If there is a muslim see you at the pole and I protest it all I promote is hate, let the christians who want to pray at a flagpole pray at a flagpole, or anyone else who wants to for that matter, if as christians we show anything but the love of Christ we are wrong, if as christians we believe that the atheist, muslim, wiccan, etc. belief system is incorrect then we should pray for them, maybe they'll come to believe in Christ, maybe they won't, but that's no reason to bludgeon anyone with your beliefs on a comments page, christian, atheist, or otherwise, I don't think any of us will accomplish much, if anything.
Very well said little sister.
Allowing preachers into our public schools is like allowing Tobacco Companies to advertise during Saturday morning TV cartoons. We used to allow this you know.
Once again Mike Copeland eloquently TRIES to explain the law about prayer in public schools to those that JUST DON'T GET IT. Mike, isn't it amazing how such a simple concept isn't understood by so many?
You will not find anywhere in the Constitution that there is a separation of church and state. That is the Communist Manifesto people. Read your Constitution! Boy, they sure need prayer in schools if this is what they are teaching this generation. Glad I was taught in the old school system where manners and morals were taught as well as reading, writing, math, science as well as ENGLISH. Which are all hard to find being taught today. No wonder this country is in the shape it is! Don't like our country as it was meant to be – LEAVE IT!
How was our country "meant to be?" The Founding Fathers would lose their damn minds if they were able to see the country as it is today. First off, they would be shocked the United States has lasted this long because this country was nothing more than a great experiment. Secondly if they saw what it has turned into, they would probably just shake their heads and throw their hands up in defeat. They never, ever intended for the country to be based on religion or to have religion influence anything. Manners and prayer are not the same thing. I don't pray and I have manners. I didn't pray in public school and I know how to read, write, do math and English (although technically what we learn should be called American because it's not really English). Our country is in the shape it's in because people are freakin greedy and all "me, me, me."
Right on Mike !!!!!! Like I always say, if you don't like it here, theres a boat or plane that leaves
That leaves every day. Get on one . Try to do in these other countries what you can do here and see how that works out !!!!!!!!
Don Blanton – Really? So people who don't believe in any form of religion we don't get that right? Even though it's promised to us and that's why our founders came here was so everyone could have freedom of religion? So I've sacrificed for this country for seven and a half years now but because I don't agree with religion I should "just leave?" The country was never meant to be one of religion. You people need to realize that. Sorry but I'll continue to believe in what I believe in and not follow cults.
Don Blanton You try to be a Christian in some other countries and see how far that gets YOU.
Boy Kelly, you may have served in the Army, you do have the freedoms of this country, but child you still have no clue. You must be in the generation that learned our history out of the 'new' history books. I feel for you. This country was founded on those very Christian beliefs you are condemning! Yes the founding fathers would throw up their hands but not in defeat but in their willingness to fight a new revolution to reclaim this country from the people that have destroyed it.
Kelly in theory you are right, a person can pray anywhere and God will hear it; however my point is that the Government does not have the authority to interfer or prohibit expression of religion regardless if they are funding the schools with (tax payers) money. The school is not sponsoring this event; these are parents, children, and a pastor expressing their religious beliefs by way of a simple, peaceful prayer that happens to be on school property. Congress says that it shall not sponsor a national religion nor interfere with the expression of religion. Therefore, if Our govenment interferes with the expression of this prayer, the government will be violating their constitutional rights.
So what about the people who are not Christian or not religious? What of their rights?
Here we go again. Another bunch of liberal folks who get all torn up because a man of God wnats to pray for the kids at school as well as the school. Do they not know or can they not look around and see all the ungodliness that is going on in our schools and just how immoral the kids have become since the LORD was kicked out of school in the first place. Go ahead and pray Brother Barker and I'll touch with you in prayer concerning this. Brother Stephen Blan.
He can pray for as many kids as he wants, a public schoo; is not the place. If I want my kid to learn about religion I send him/her to church or a private christian school. I know it is really hard for the religious folks to understand, because you believe everyone wants or needs to hear your beliefs, but seriously if I want to hear it I know where to go. i am so sick of hearing people blame the schools for the morals of our kids today. IT'S THE PARENTS that are supposed to teach those morals. I can't tell you how many "christian" folk I saw all dressed up on Sunday praising God and acting like the good little Christian, only to see them every other day beating the shit out of their kids and wife, cheating on their spouses OH and let's not forget the men of the cloth molesting our children……..christian morals my ass!
He can pray for as many kids as he wants, a public schoo; is not the place. If I want my kid to learn about religion I send him/her to church or a private christian school. I know it is really hard for the religious folks to understand, because you believe everyone wants or needs to hear your beliefs, but seriously if I want to hear it I know where to go. i am so sick of hearing people blame the schools for the morals of our kids today. IT'S THE PARENTS that are supposed to teach those morals. I can't tell you how many "christian" folk I saw all dressed up on Sunday praising God and acting like the good little Christian, only to see them every other day beating the shit out of their kids and wife, cheating on their spouses OH and let's not forget the men of the cloth molesting our children……..christian morals my ass!
Obviously if prayer hasn't cured the world's ills in 2000+ years is not going to start now…the bad things that happen in school happen because teachers have lost power and parents are scared of their kids and don't know how to discipline.
What a great country we would have if children were not allowed to be exposed to religion until they reached the age of consent.
No one is trying to talke away their rights. If Muslims, Hindus or other faiths want to pray on public property, I support their right to do so. I do not have to believe in their views to support their right to expess their views. So, again I ask, what persons rights are being violated by a group of people praying around a flag pole? The answer….. no ones, because no one is forcing anyone to join or affirm their views. They have the right to pass on by and not be concerned about how other people express their views. That's the beauty about America, we have the freedom of choice! Let freedom ring! Also, Kelly, thank you for fighting for christians and non christians alike for the freedoms we are afforded. Thank you for your comments and debate. This type of dialog has afforded us our freedoms as well, the power to debate and reason!
Keep praying at the flagpole. They don't want prayer in school so the flagpole works. When are they going to quit and realize that God is stronger than any of them and we will never give Him up.
Katie Freeman – Why can't they just pray at their church? Or at someone's house?
STANDING WITH YOU IN PRAYER, LIVING FOR JESUS, AND IN WITNESS.
Hopefully this is the beginning of the PUSHBACK long overdue. If its constitutional, don't allow any PC BS take away your constitutional rights as an American. This is a part of the agenda to fundamentally transform America which has been insidiously, incrementally embedded in American society for the past 4+ decades. PUSHBACK has been a long time in coming. Marxists/Socialists/Muslims have been seeking to erode the very foundations of America, faith based nation: drug culture, sexual deviance. destruction of faith, morality, integrity and ethical behavior; indoctrination of youth, substitution of multiculturalism for nationalism and patriotism and most of all the collapse of America's Capitalistic economic system that provides opportunity for all to realize dreams to extent of ability, determination and perseverance. America will never be destroyed. God's eye is always on his sparrows. Keep the faith and the conversation going.
Helen Jenkins: Really? "Muslims have been seeking to erode the very foundation of America" – you realize that Muslims have been in the US since the 1800s right? Oh and all great empires come to an end someday. Rome thought it would never fall either…
Cynthia Gallaher – with Native Americans technically they didn't really believe in land ownership and they migrated too some of them but I digress. The way they were treated was horrible. Also with Africans brought over here for slaves – although their own people helped the slave traders. Quite honestly religion always gets used and molested by horrible people. It's unfortunate. I like reading about the different ideologies or mythologies but people don't know how to handle them unfortunately.
Helen,I could not have said it any better.May God bless you for standing for truth.These are challenging times,economically and other wise.This nation needs the blessing of God now more than ever.This pastor in Florida is standing for truth.He's not cowering to a small,liberal few .He's standing in the gap and interceding for people living in darkness.Jesus called on us to be salt and light,to not compromise.
John Buchanan – So what truth is that? And if you people have all been praying for the whole time, why hasn't god helped you or the country? Hmm…
Kelly Calder Is that really true?You say you serve in the US Army,as I did and I think if you posed that question towards an Army chaplain you'd get a similar response….God has blessed America.How do you know God hasn't protected you from harms way.Get out on the front lines of an infantry unit in Iraq or Afghanistan and you will find a timeless truth-There are no atheist in foxholes.You'll find men with small Gideon bibles in their pocket,reading Psalm 91.You'll find that chaplain not far away,praying for the safety of those men.The pastor in Florida is praying for safety of a different people group.Just a different setting.Hopefully you can respect what the chaplain does in your workplace,and the pastor.They are praying men.Say what you may,but I'll guarantee if your life went into crisis mode,you'd want somebody praying for you
John Buchanan – First of all, chaplains don't proselytize and force me to listen to their sermons. If I honestly sat down and talked to one, he/she would ask me what do I believe? Hmm…unfortunately I can't be in an infantry unit due to my gender BUT I did go on some patrols while I was in a combat engineer unit. That means we were LOOKING for the IEDs. Also, we don't fight in foxholes anymore buddy. And there are no more "front lines" not in a counter-insurgency war. I guarantee you there are plenty of atheists who are in the infantry but good try. Also I don't just "say" I serve in the Army. I DO serve. I have for 7 years now so I'm not sure what you're implying. Also, most chaplains I know as much as they do travel around to the bases to meet with the troops, they're not all outside the wire. Why should I "respect" what a chaplain or a pastor does? I've been in crisis mode many times in my life. I never asked anyone to pray for me and I never will. If they choose to, that's their prerogative. But no I never want or ask anyone to pray for me. My beliefs are private but I will say I don't believe in any one religion. I think they are interesting but all mythologies are interesting. So you still didn't answer my question – if prayer is supposed to help people, why are we still at war, still have bad things happen, etc? All I'm saying is people can pray to themselves or at home or in a church.
Kelly Calder Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars.That's a fact of life.God gets blamed for alot of things that are not His fault.Prayer is my lifeline,my communication with the Father.I've seen to many circumstances change,sings and wonders,miracles happen to not pray.I believe in the supernatural.I've read way too much accounts of US soldiers documenting angels on battlefields,through varous campaigns to know that God makes Himself real to people,civilian and military that no one can deny He exist's.If you haven't experienced that thus far in your life,get ready because God loves you and all humanity too much,and He is seeking a relationship.I do appreciate your service to our country,whether or not we see things the same spiritually.I am a man who has encountered Jesus Christ and He has changed my life forever,thefore I will not be silenced.It's not mythology to me.It's a very real personal relationship with Christ.I know what's it's like to live without Him,as you have been.That life before Christ,represented an empty,purposeless,chapter in my life where I felt the guilt of sin and shame.Knowing my sins are forgiven, and my eternal destiny secure has brought a peace that passes all understanding into my life.I know what it is to be on either side of the cross,an unbeliever mocking God and His believers,and I know what it means to be righteous,which simply means in right relationship with the Father.Hands down my life is radically better,and I've got a joy that I wouldn't trade for all the world.I am grateful for salvation.Amazing grace is my lifesong.It is amazing to me that God would choose someone who was so unworthy,to bestow His love upon.You may not ask for it,but I'll praying for you this week Kelly.God loves you and so do I.
If the Illinois schools have to let a muslim teacher off work for three weeks to attend pilgrimage in mecca.WHY is it unlawful to pray @ the flags. Wish I could be there Monday morn.
How are these two things related? Was the muslim teacher praying at school with the students? I am afraid that if the preacher shows up Monday morning the school will be forced to have him removed.
Donald Farmer Sr — The Muslim teacher didn't ask to pray at work. It seems they asked to participate in something that is central to their religion. Every Muslims is supposed to attend the hajj in their lifetime. Doesn't sound like he/she asked to pray at school five times a day. I bet you that teacher finds a way to pray in quiet without disturbing students. Nice try Donald.
Kelly Calder Why should a teacher be awarded 3 weeks off in the middle of the semester to attend a hajj. The pastor is going to pray @ the flag pole Outside. Who will even know he's there. You can bet if a muslim wanted to have prayer @ the pole they would probably be welcomed by the school.
John Ballard the teacher wants 3 weeks off to attend the hajj this means a sub will have to be hired to fill in, which means the tax payer will have to pay someones salary T benefits. is this fair. All the preacher wants to do is have prayer outside @ the flag pole. Who is that going to harm.
Hey to Mike Page! You disappoint me. I agree my friend SHOULD NOT have been involved and escalated the situation. Therefore, block my friend, not me, since your argument was with him, and NOT me. I heard a gist of what was said, but never saw your post. I do not support my friends insults towards you in any way. Look at this page! I have never supported people insulting each other. Neither will I accept insults towards me. This was an intellectual conversation, if you are not emotionally intelligent enough to keep it that way, then I am sad only that we can not continue sharing ideas, because you have shut the door not only to me, but I'm guessing to others points of view as well. Do yourself a favor, for you if not for me, in your future conversations and commentations, keep the door open. Leave your emotions and the emotions of others outside of your intellectual conversations. If we all did that, we might actually start accomplishing things. And so I still say, regardless what you may have said about me, best of luck to you, and many and much more pleasant conversations.
You may have Pete, but honestly I'm glad you did. I'm not sure where I was going or could have gone if that's what he had bottled up the whole time. He has anger issues I'm glad I didn't have to face directly because you stepped in. Thanks. I'm sad that's the case, but if he said what I've been told before I was blocked, then it was probably good you stepped in.
I've ran into a few like that, who want to stop the pushiness of Christians and yet they are pushing their beliefs forward and overbearingly so in return. It's smacks of hypocrisy so obviously it's hard to understand how others don't see it…
Sigh… know what I realized? That conversation was handled the way most are… Pete, we'd do better to just listen, shake our heads, and walk away. Who is he going to have to fight if no one is there to fight him? Maybe he'll calm down and realize he's not under attack. He never was to start with, after all, not by us anyway.
I like this guy!
Carl I thought you said you were a man of honor. Is that why you are stiffing my father? You owe him a lot of money. You need to pay him no matter how you feel about me!!!!!
One last apology, Mike. I'm sorry you felt attacked, even if not coming directly from me, it seems you felt threatened enough to respond with insults. I don't have any power over you Mike, neither do you over me. This was my whole point the entire time. Nor do Christians over other groups, nor should other groups over them. We're equal, Mike, I wish you could calm down enough to see that. A plea for all who may be listening, if no longer Mike himself. We're all on the same page, and I mean that in more ways than one. Equal.
Pastor Baker, you are God's man.Blessed are yes when men revile you and persecute you, hurl all kinds of insults at you for My names sake.Your reward is in heaven.
As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers. – Robert G. Ingersoll
I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent. – Arthur C. Clarke
So sad to see this in America. These prayers are going on before school starts. They do not interfear with the school day in any way and students are not required to participate.
Go pastor Baker! God is good.
Crazyness! UGH! But Go Bro. Baker!
I would hope that many people would stand with him. " Gentlemen, if we don't hang together, we will all hang separately." Ben Franklin.
We need more pastors in America like Bro. Baker!
Good for him and everyone who joins him in defiance of this blackmail and intimidation by a group of fanatics!