Jan 12, 2012
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A federal judge has ruled that a Rhode Island high school must tear down a prayer banner that encouraged students to be kind and helpful because it offended non-Christians and was a violation of the U.S. Constitution.
U.S. District Court Judge Ronald Lagueux ruled that the prayer banner at Cranston High School West must be removed immediately because it promotes religion. Jessica Ahlquist, an atheist student, had sued the city of Cranston and the high school after they initially refused to remove the banner.
The prayer, which has been posted at the school for decades, begins with the words “Our Heavenly Father” and ends with “Amen.” It encouraged students to be kind, to do their best in school and to learn the true value of friendship.
Prayer Banner - photo by AP
“We are so proud of Jessica for fighting to protect church-state separation,” American Humanist Association Executive Director Roy Speckhardt said in a written statement. “Seh recognized injustice, stood up for what is right, and persevered in the face of harassment. She fought for the rights of nonbelievers and religious minorities and is an example for everyone.”
City officials defended the mural and called it a historical artifact – noting that it served no specific religious purpose. It’s unclear when or if the school will remove the banner.
David Bradley, the man who authored the prayer when he was a seventh grade student, told WPRO that he is furious about the court ruling.
“I am upset, disappointed and not to say, outraged,” he told WPRO. “It’s a shame that some judge with an appointment out of a Cracker Jack box can make a ruling like that.”
Bradley said the student who filed a lawsuit is being used as a pawn by the American Civil Liberties Union.
FOX News Talk
The Supriem court HAS ruled that athiesm IS a religon and thus it is protected under the same laws as other religions. But if it is a religion then for a school, or other gov agentsy to give in to the demands of an athiest would be the same as giving into those of a catholic or morman those there is no seperation of church and state as the state has just given in to the demands of the atiestic church.
The Supriem court HAS ruled that athiesm IS a religon and thus it is protected under the same laws as other religions. But if it is a religion then for a school, or other gov agentsy to give in to the demands of an athiest would be the same as giving into those of a catholic or morman those there is no seperation of church and state as the state has just given in to the demands of the atiestic church.
Whyy can't we just have schools with prayer? Why not Biblical teachings?> And once our schools are church based we CAN THROW JESSICA OUT: "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says." All those female teachers can leave too, as we should "not suffer a woman to teach." THROW OUT ALL THE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED PEOPLE AS WELL – THEY'RE JUST POSSESSED BY DEMONS! – Erin
Whyy can't we just have schools with prayer? Why not Biblical teachings?> And once our schools are church based we CAN THROW JESSICA OUT: "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says." All those female teachers can leave too, as we should "not suffer a woman to teach." THROW OUT ALL THE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED PEOPLE AS WELL – THEY'RE JUST POSSESSED BY DEMONS! – Erin
sounds like a hate crime to me!
Historically religious items appeared repeatedly as in government buildings.It would seem the courts would have done something 200 yrs ago and not let it happen from the start.Everything else started at the beginning why wait 236 yrs to rule on it?
Hang the Judge on a CROSS- I will supply the NAILS.
It's not about any particular faith. Religious morals are for home and church, not public school. Your average Christian would not want Judaism and Wicca and Muslim prayers hanging on the wall at school, or recited prayer or rituals on campus or in a court of law. We are not a christain nation. If you want religion and religious morality taught in school, send your kids to a private school or homeschool them. That way they will sound exactly like you.
It's not about any particular faith. Religious morals are for home and church, not public school. Your average Christian would not want Judaism and Wicca and Muslim prayers hanging on the wall at school, or recited prayer or rituals on campus or in a court of law. We are not a christain nation. If you want religion and religious morality taught in school, send your kids to a private school or homeschool them. That way they will sound exactly like you.
Looks like another reason to vote for Newt. At least he sees that judges are out of control.
The prayer banner is not the government establishing a religion. The Federal Judge ruling in this case IS establishing atheism as a religion, and should be sued because of it. I am in North Carolina, and this ruling affects me as well (as it does all US citizens), so I am willing to sign onto a class action lawsuit against Judge Ronald Lagueux. I would probably settle for $10,000,000.00 each for each member of my family, all of whom have now been injured by him. We need to hold people like this judge accountable, and if he and other people who use their positions of trust to cause wholesale injury to citizens was made to pay maybe this stupidity would stop.
Must suck that is he is a Conservative, Christian, Ronald Reagan appointee then? BTW the Plaintiff only sued for $25. Do you really think the inclusion of 8 little words on a prayer banner is worth $10,000,000 damages for everyone? Wow, persecution knows no bounds eh?
Marc Gregory du Pille
Yes, I agree, persecution knows no bounds. Especially against Christioans. I don't know if hte judge is conservatine or not. I don't care if Reagan appointed him. I am just tired of my country squeezing my particular faith's religious right to expression. The plaintiff sued to have the banner removed. All the Constitution says is that the Federal Gov't cannot have a "State" religion and cannot prohibit anyone from exercising theirs. I believe that this is prohibiting the free exercise of this. The banner also has words of encouragement to students. As far as the monetary value, I believe the right to display those "8 little words" is worth far more than any amount of money. The atheist student and her family have as much right to not believe in God, no problem there. God left that as a choice for us to make.
Michael E. Hughey Michael, I know that you think that this is all the Constitution says and that the various subsequent SCOTUS decisions which interpret this should have no effect. It's your right to have that opinion, but your version is not currently the way the courts interpret the constitution, regardless of David Barton inspired Wall Builders" historicity" .
I don't really think Christianity has too bad a deal really. All those billions in tax-exempt status, for example. Mega-Churches all around the place, dripping with assets. TV stations pumping out their stuff to the faithful morning noon and night. More than ample representation in government. Deferential treatment of Church dignitaries by the press. Toleration of special pleading for people's religious peccadilloes. No, I think religion gets more than a fair rub of the green, and in the USA, Christianity comes with much prestige and privilege. It is the club to be in, the one with acceptance by the masses, the "insiders" club with the power.
Contrast that with atheism. Reviled by many, distrusted more than gays or rapists. Not eligible for tax exemption. Being an atheist can mean social exclusion, loss of your job, being run out of your town or your school. Just because you hold a different view of the world, which, I thought, was guaranteed under the First Amendment, just as much as the right to hold any religious views anybody else might hold. Apparently not,in some people's eyes, even if not yours.
Nobody is trying to undercut an individual's right to express their individual religious views. You are still as free to do whatever you want just as you were before. You never were allowed to come onto my property though and daub it with religious sentiments, so, in that sense your religious freedom is limited, just as your freedom to wave your fist around ends at the point where it hits my nose.
Similarly, even if it had been a student lovingly creating a religious piece of his own artwork with a fine upstanding moral message, he wouldn't have been allowed to put it on my wall.
In the current case though, the student didn't really invent the prayer. That had been in use for a few years before the school asked students to come up with a prayer, a creed, a banner and a symbol for the newly split school. Whilst the students suggested incorporating the prayer in a banner and raised the funds for it, it was not a student piece of artwork. Instead, like the similar one installed at Bain Middle school, it was created from a stock item of artwork and the words were painted and installed by a professional sign-writer.
All through the exercise, the Administrators of the school were in total control of the exercise. So it was not even a case of an individual's right of free expression, it was only a question of whether the school had the right to install such an item on their own wall. Since the school is part of the Government and not an individual, and since the current rule is that government must remain neutral to religion or non-religion, putting up a Christian prayer was outside that neutrality. It has nothing to do with individual freedom whatsoever. It is all to do with the Government having the power to act in a certain way. The court decided that it didn't. Your rights as an individual, and those of other Christians are totally unaffected.
Marc, I wouldn't hang anything on your wall. You have your opinion, I have mine. I feel like this does violate my rights as an individual. I don't know if you have been in the US, but we have to put up with this and schools not allowing the Boy & Girl Scouts to use school buildings, Christian groups being denied permission to assemble, local boards that cannot open meetings with prayer and other similar incidents. Do atheists have churches and organizations that need tax exemptions? If so they should get them. Nice chatting with someone in New Zealand.
Michael E. Hughey And nice chatting to you too, Michael. Yes, I have spent some time in the US (and incidentally appear to share a Y Chromosome deriving from a distant relative named Hughey), my daughter dates someone in MN so I have a long-term interest in the schooling arrangements out there.
Regarding local boards wanting to open with prayers, why would they want to do that if the message they want to give is that they are representing the whole community and not just a privileged segment of it? Doing so veers perilously close to government endorsement of religion and is therefore open to legal question. I know that some bodies historically have adopted the practice, such as Congress and other notable bodies, so I am unsure whether the legality of such arrangements is settled or not.
As for Boy and Girl Scouts, well these groups, as I recall, require that boys and girls pledge allegiance to God before they can become members and by doing so exclude or ostracise non-adherents, so I'm not generally in favor of that part of their ethos. However, that said, I don't really see a problem with Church groups or even boy scouts or guides using public school facilities as long as they do not get preferential rates over other potential users of the facilities (and provided that they don't get preferential long-term dibs on the facilities). I do acknowledge though, that some states, notably NY, recently have sought to exclude such groups for fear of an Establishment clause challenge. I'm not sure that such an exclusion is necessarily warranted, however.
Provided that their use of the facilities must not imply any endorsement of their activities by the public body renting them the facility, and as long as students of a school being rented are not present and they do not seek to use their presence at the institution to proselytise the normal attendees of the institution, then personally I think it should be OK to rent them the space.
The Constitution says NOTHING about SEPARATING CHURCH AND STATE. Absolutely NOTHING! Nor does the Bill of Rights, which contains the First Amendment. That was something Jefferson discussed in a letter in 1802 to the Danbury Baptist Association. Many years after he wrote the Constitution.
The First Amendment prevents CONGRESS from ESTABLISHING a religion and from PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION. This means that Congress, not judges, may not stop the practice of religion on a national level, and Congress may not force the people of the nation to practice any specific religion.
Everything else, regarding religion is left TO THE STATES in the 10th Amendment. Most States mention God in some way in their Constitutions and some even require the recognition of God in order to hold public office within the State.
That banner does not say Jesus anywhere on it. Therefore it is not a Christian banner. Heavenly Father is referred to by most monotheistic religions, Muslim, Judaism, Christian… Abba is the Hebrew word for father and is often used in Judaism, Amen, also is Hebrew and means So Be It; Truly. Therefore one could conclude that the prayer is Jewish or even Muslim. There are Muslims in Jerusalem who speak Hebrew.
All these people who seem to think having a prayer somehow injures the minority who do not believe in a god/creator/intelligence need to get over themselves. They are interfering with MY PRACTICE of MY BELIEFS.
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html
We must not remain silent as a free and religious people. The attempt to remove God completely from our society and education system is an attempt to promote a single faith called Atheism.
Jessica Ahlquist is one very brave teenager. The torment she endures at the hands of cruel "christians" because of this is unbelievable. She's right, though. By all means, put that banner up in a church or something, that's fine. Public schools are not in the business of promoting religion.
Freedom doesn't stop at the school house gates!
Heavenly Father and Amen are used by Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and other religions.
Indeed, Ted Wilson, indeed. That's why students are allowed to pray, despite your mainstream media's assertions.
THAT IS B— S— THIS CONTRY WAS FOUNED ON THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE AS YOU WISH, TAKE THE GOVERMENT OUT OF OUR RIGHTS.
Amen enough said
Father foretold of this in 2 Thes 2.
We are going the way of the Godless, which is horrible.
Don't forget this country was built on the three Gs' – GOD, GUNS AND GUTS- -not ignorance, infidels, atheist and government. I will pray where I want and if America keeps letting muslims put their towels in the middle of the street or rest room floor, me and mine will pray louder. Send the judge to Afghanistan.
Another "judge" who's so called open mind has resulted in the "judges" brain falling out. The left wing P.C. police will destory our nation. In God we Trust.
Encouragment through prayer is in the eye of the beholder. It's sad it's being judged as a vioation of the First Amendment. There's nothing offensive and/or obstructive in its content. Even though Judge Ronald Lagueux was appointed by Ronald Reagan, he is clearly demonstrating how un-American we are becoming as a land of law and not principle. Being an Atheist is her right, but my question would be, what does she use for currency? Or does that offend her, too? I'll bet she doesn't have a problem with that?
Take the Judge out of his position and keep the banner. He is not appear faithful and sound enough with his decision to be making decisions in this Country…One Nation Under God!
A lot less focus has already been done for the last 30 years and that is why the Judge and other none.
believers in this Country…one Nation under God has people with less care about your children and their educations..Wise Betsy!
Tell little Jessica to go @*&! herself.
Non-believers are approximately 3 percent of this Country and Americans swallow up and allow them to dictate and tear up just like was done by "1" woman when prayer was removed from schools….well I know far too well that Arkansas children are better of believing in prayer and testifying and saying the.
flag salute everyday! Wise up Americans because when a dictator takes over you are going to be in real.
trouble and crying all the way because you have no rights and lost your freedom!
I'm favouriting this entire website due to the hilarity to be had in reading christians posts.
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith…. We need believing people.
The banner has been there longer than she has. The girl is being "USED" to promote the agenda of another group. This country was founded on the promise of Freedom "OF" Religion, NOT freedom FROM religion. If you do not like these references, then please move to Washington D.C. You will be right at home. The rest of us will keep our faith, our money, our firearms, and our "CHANGE". Thank you very much.
The judge and Jessica Ahlquist should stroll by here, we'll see then how wonderful they are.
Jessica Ahlquist got paid off or saw $$$ down the road..probly from ffrf they have been active lately.
Jessica I truley hope that some day you are broken and burning and dearley need relief then you will ask for help from anyone and God will be there for you if you just ask. But juntill then fujk you , you stupid bitch. Have a n ice day..
It's funny really, Christians are keen to rub it in the faces of Atheists about how their beliefs promote love, morality and tolerance because what I see is a bunch of nasty bigots thumping their chests, sulking, and posting threats because their right to force their beliefs down the throats of others has been taken away.
With a couple of exceptions you guys are a bunch of nasty, hateful small minded hypocrites. And if I'm wrong and your god is real I hope he burns the lot of you in hell along with us Atheists because you're not nice people.
Shane Phillips – I hope you read my THANK YOU to the atheists who were beling considerate of others beliefs. We may disagree but there is usually no need to be disagreeable. We can agree to disagree. YOU complain of some of the posts on here being placed by a bunch of nasty bigots, who sulk and post threats….I havent read every post, but I havent seen alot of evidence of sulking, small minded bigots posting threats except for one i just read. Someone posted this… "I hope he burns the lot of you in hell along with us Atheists ". Sounds to me like you were talking about yourself my friend. At least you already know the direction you are headed in. True believing Christians wont be found there. You don't have to be either. I am not tryint to force my religion on you or anyone else. I am however suggesting that you might be a little more open minded and might spend some time learning the truth about Christianity. There are many good things to be found there. I agree with you on one thing. If a Christian is being hateful toward you or others who disagree with him / her then they too are wrong. I too get a bit passionate about my beliefs about my God and my Country. I try to be reasonable, but sometimes when dealing with people who are ttrying their best to be disagreeable, I to can be that way. Christians are not perfect, though some think they are. I DO NOT think that of myself. I KNOW I am faulty. Thats why I rely on my God to forgive me. Thats my belief. It doesnt have to be yours of course. You have the right to believe in anything or nothing under our Constitution. The only thing I would suggest to you is. Think before you post. Dont detract from your beliefs with threats and attacks. Otherwise you are no different than the people you are complaining about. God Bless ( hope your not offended…it was meant in a positive way…you may not believe, but since I do, thats that nicest thing I can say to you….hope you understand )
Please, poke your condescending attitude. I'm not scared of your imaginary friends or their imaginary threats so don't pull that crap on me and suddenly expect me to be won over because it's not going to happen. I don't know where I am going, but what I do know is that it's not to your imaginary threat (and seriously, that's all you can come up with to validate your beliefs? I've been threatened time and time again with hell and it doesn't win me over).
When people deserve tolerance, I give it to them. The values of Christianity, and the values of most of the commenters on this post are excluded from that. No belief system that teaches people that they're dirty just for being human deserves to be tolerated.
And yeah, you know what… some Atheists can be damn rude. But given the way they're treated in your country I cannot blame them one bit, they're hated, ridiculed, and treated with suspicion and contempt just because they don't share the delusions of the majority. Why the hell should they play nice when the majority of your country hates on them just for existing?
Sorry, but yes with your apparent claim that you're being prevented from practising your religion by not being allowed to make a public nuisance of it, you are indeed forcing it down the throats of others. Tell me, because I seem to have forgotten where in the bible does it say that you need to put up banners in public places to avoid going to hell? Your freedom is not being impacted in the slightest, other people who don't share your beliefs are being given the constitutional protection that they deserve. If you can't stomach that, the problem is with you not the system.
The banner has absolutely no place on the wall of a public school. Kids are there to learn not be subjected to someone's religious beliefs. The insults and abuse Jessica has received from banner supporters has been very telling of what's really in their hearts.
The banner has absolutely no place on the wall of a public school. Kids are there to learn not be subjected to someone's religious beliefs. The insults and abuse Jessica has received from banner supporters has been very telling of what's really in their hearts.
This is complete BS. Maybe students would do better in school if they had God in their lives.
if this same poster without the words Heavenly Father and Amen were posted, it would be considered very inspirational and applauded. Just because haters want to be offended by people different than themselves they are out to MAKE everyone conform to their (or should I say stoop) level. Our court system and our laws are based on the 10 commandments: thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not murder; honor your father and your mother….. all in the 10 commandments. people will agree with the principles of the Bible so long as they don't know those principles came from the Bible.
if this same poster without the words Heavenly Father and Amen were posted, it would be considered very inspirational and applauded. Just because haters want to be offended by people different than themselves they are out to MAKE everyone conform to their (or should I say stoop) level. Our court system and our laws are based on the 10 commandments: thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not murder; honor your father and your mother….. all in the 10 commandments. people will agree with the principles of the Bible so long as they don't know those principles came from the Bible.
Seh learn to spell SHE.
@Betsy Heckman why don't you crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under. If you not have faith or believe in GOD keep it to yourself.
Ok, so if a prayer banner is illegal in a school then all politicians are illegal when they take the oath of office when they lay their hand on a bible or utter the words"I swear to God".
More than likely an Obama appointee.
Yup. He was appointed by that outrageously left-wing, liberal, commie, Ronald Reagan.
Oh, wait….
The Constitution says no establishment of religion nor restraint of practice. As far as precedent, the fact that god is mentioned on the Supreme Court building and the ten Commandments are in the building sets precedent that the mention of God is acceptable historically in public facilities and does not represent an establishment of a religion. An expression maybe, but not establishment. Seperation or non-mention of anything religious was not a precedent or issue until 150 years after the Constitution was written.
You tell em' Cousin!! Amen!
The Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal," but it wasn't until 150 years later that Blacks got full civil rights. Just because people did something in the past doesn't mean it was good or right.
Lauren Eve Pomerantz I understand. However, previous does set precedent. However, to make a correction, blacks had full civil rights when the constitution was written. Women, however took about 130 years.
However, slaves, whether black – white – chinese – or indian, only counted as 1/3 of a person. The reason was to avoid slave owners from using the slaves votes against the free states and avoid slave states from having more representatives in Congress.
Starley Shelton I think that if other people have the right to own you, you pretty much don't have civil rights.
Lauren Eve Pomerantz Under that definition, then whites-blacks-chinese-indians did not have civil rights. All these groups included slaves and freemen until the 13th Amendment was adopted on December 18, 1865.
Freedom From Religion vs. Freedom of Religion Myth.
You Have Freedom Of, not Freedom From Religion?
By Austin Cline.
Freedom from religion does not mean, as some mistakenly seem to claim, being free from seeing religion in society. No one has the right not to see churches, religious expression, and other examples of religious belief in our nation — and those who advocate freedom of religion do not claim otherwise.
What freedom from religion does mean, however, is the freedom from the rules and dogmas of other people’s religious beliefs so that we can be free to follow the demands of our own conscience, whether they take a religious form or not. Thus, we have both freedom of religion and freedom from religion because they are two sides of the same coin.
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/a/freedomfrom.htm
Atheist's think that Christians are being unfair and stubborn. Atheist's, ask yourself this, lets pretend that there was a country full of atheists, dosent matter what religion it was founded on, it was just a pure atheist country, then one day, Christians decided to start moving into your country and demanding you get rid of everything atheism related, and you had to start putting up crosses in your schools and such, how would you feel?
@ Betsy Heckman. Last time I checked, when Christianity was the majority in America, back in the 1900's, America was doing great! Anyone could go anywhere without fear of being robbed, beat up, or killed. No one had to worry about anyone stealing anything. Then Atheism comes along and starts growing bigger and bigger and America goes to crap.
People that feel the need to display religious crap….. offend me. Keep your religious views to yourself. No one can take my religious views from me….. NO ONE! Only my family and closet friends need to know my thoughts about religion…..I don't feel a need to express my views. I have been reminded that God knows what you will say ; before , it is said. God wouldn't need my help in any way…. I am man and I am imperfect.
Here we go again…. religious zealots just don't get it. You people think that you have a right to impress your religious views upon others, on public property. Well you DON'T. The courts are constantly trying to convey this to you idiots, but it just doesn't sink in.
If you vote, vote the Judge down. If you don't shame on you.
If you vote, vote the Judge down. If you don't shame on you.
Take the fed down, take obama down.
THE JUDGE TODAY WHAT WOOD HE SAY WHEN SHARIA LAW COMES INTO PLAY,,,
Atheism Is Protected As a Religion, says Court.
For the purposes of protection under the First Amendment, the U.S. Court ofAppeals for the Second Circuit (May 13, 1997), decided the Orange County N.Y.Department of Probation could not force Robert Warner, an atheist, to attendreligion-based alcoholic treatment programs against the dictates of his ownbeliefs.
They can take the Banner down and shove it up there Ass! But one thing for sure they cant Take god out of our Hearts and cant take our Prayer away!
Some polls indicate that 78 percent of the United States are christian. Less than 2 percent are atheist. Shouldn't the atheist go to private schools to avoid religion? Why should the christians go to private schools?
Amen.
OK, see, there's this thing called the Constitution, and it says that the state will not impose a religion. The founders of our country thought this was so important that it is the first freedom guaranteed in the whole document, before free speech, a free press, or anything else.
A public school, funded by public dollars, cannot promote one religion over another, or any religion over no religion. It's really simple.
Posting parts from a post I made on another article….
If you read the second amendment, it does not say separation of church and state, there is no such separation.. the amendment limits what the gov't can do in regards to religion, period.. I'll quote it for you "Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion; nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof;.." Read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, numerous quotes that the founders made, you will find they did not separate God from Gov't, they simply made it so that neither could control the other..
This is misinterpreted as "separation," a word associated with this Amendment that has been used so much that the public, being ill-informed to what the 2nd Amendment really says (many believing it actually says separation), actually believe that anything religious, such as a prayer before a football game, prayer before a session of Congress begins, the Pledge of Allegiance, etc, would be Unconstitutional. These things are not unconstitutional by actual definition of the Amendment. People, read and learn the facts, study this nation's history, study what the founders wanted, what they meant in their words.. if you don't like the word God in something, simply don't say that word, quit trying to make the majority follow the minority. This is very simple.
For something that has been hanging on the walls of that school for decades offends someone, then that person shouldn't look at it, ignore it. Nobody forces them to see it, read it, or abide by it. If an atheist is so offended by the word God, then they need to give up their money, it has the word God on it, and yet they are not offended by that, instead choosing to keep the money they so willingly spend.
Wow smh that is truly sad…God please help our nation. Help our youth and please help every last person that does not believe or know just how much you love them.
God is in Control