Sep 17, 2012
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A Florida family is facing fines for hosting a weekly Bible study in their home – an act that city officials argue violates zoning codes.
Shane and Marlen Roessiger, of Venice, Fla. are facing a $250 per day fine for hosting Friday night prayer and Bible study gatherings that are attended by as many as 10 people.
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“It is difficult to understand how it is illegal to have a prayer meeting on Friday night with a half dozen people but it is alright if I invited the same group on Monday evening to watch Monday night Football,” Roessiger said.
The Roessigers are also facing a fine for putting a small sign in their front yard that reads: “Need Prayer (941) 484-4915.”
“It’s a weekly Bible study,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute. “It’s the same kind of Bible study that occurs in households across America.”
The Pacific Justice Institute is representing the Roessigers as they fight back against the city’s attacks. Dacus said they are hearing of a number of assaults on home Bible studies across the nation.
“They are having a specific problem with this family solely because they are having family and friends over to read the bible and pray,” Dacus told Fox News. “That may be fine in some tyrannical parts of the world. That is not okay in the United States of America.”
Pam Johnson, a spokesperson for the city of Venice, sent a statement to Fox News defending their actions and noting that the cases against the Roessigers have been continued.
“The Code Enforcement Board has continued both cases, although Mr. Roessiger was found guilty a few months ago of zoning violation (as it relates to land use),” Johnson said. “It has not been determined at this time if the use violation has been abated. No determination of guilt has been made for the sign issue because the case is continued.”
Johnson confirmed that the two cases involve a code infraction regarding the use of a sign and a zoning infraction regarding using their home as a ‘house of worship.’
The Roessigers run a small ministry called “In Him Healing Touch Ministries.” Dacus said like many small ministries, they received mail at their home instead of renting out a post office box. He believed the city used that to build a case against the family.
Dacus said that issue has since been remedied.
“We will not stand idly by while local governments run over families for having these types of religious gatherings in the privacy of their own homes,” he said. “If cities want to fine people and drag them into court or before tribunals for having prayer meetings, we will be waiting for them.”
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A man in Arizona faces jail time for the same; Bible Study groups violating zoning ordinances. Bridge clubs,, poker, swinger parties exempt, break out a bible and go to jail.
This is way different than the other case in, I think, Arizona where 40-50 people met several times a week. This is a true Bible study group. It should be protected by the constitution. This is no different from inviting friends over every week for a poker game or to watch football every Saturday or Sunday. It is a small group and the city needs to leave them alone. Does the city fine a family that has all of their reletives come over every Sunday for Sunday dinner after church? No.
Can they invite people to a Bar-B-Que? Then why not a bible study. Can Muslim do prayers in their front yards? Then why not a bible study.
Let us not forget that the original Koo-Aid drinkers were conservative Christians who had been brainwashed to believe the big bad government was coming to take them away. Same with the Waco Wackos.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Here we go again…"Oh look! Christians! Get'em!"…I'm so sick of this, Do they really think people are so stupid as to not see this for what it is?
Here we go again…"Oh look! Christians! Get'em!"…I'm so sick of this, Do they really think people are so stupid as to not see this for what it is?
Here we go again…"Oh look! Christians! Get'em!"…I'm so sick of this, Do they really think people are so stupid as to not see this for what it is?
Here we go again…"Oh look! Christians! Get'em!"…I'm so sick of this, Do they really think people are so stupid as to not see this for what it is?
We need prayer!
We need prayer!
Yes we do!
I understand in Russia they are handing out Bibles in their public schools… so much for the other guy being the big evil enemy… WE ARE Being attacked from within! Know your enemy – it is NOT a 'government' but the prince of darkness…
This is absolutely the most, most crazy, most anything dumb in the book I can think of just think of. What kind of country are we turning into? People get elected and become dumber by the day.
AMEN!!!
Ralph will your PD be in attendance for Plymouth PD Officer?
This is absolutely the most, most crazy, most anything dumb in the book I can think of just think of. What kind of country are we turning into? People get elected and become dumber by the day.
You're pardoned. Zoning codes deal mostly with how land is used and occupancy rates. If you and a few friends want to have a bible study, go right ahead. But if you declare yourself to be a ministry and have organized and advertised events, then you follow the rules for those events. Is enough parking available, does the building have enough capacity, are there enough exits in case of emergency, even down to the number of bathrooms needed.
i'll be quite honest with you, I am someone that agrees with all ppl having rights, but if you wanna saythat having bible studies shouldcost money?? Ugh what about the illegals that live in dumps 20-30 at a time and hook up electricity from home to home..Look I am all about rights but how come the city looks the other way on other subjects. REALLY it seems to me the only time that ppl can walk on others in this COUNTRY is when they are CHRISTIAN its like everyone (even illegals) have their rights but CHRISTIANS just DONT..WHY..See the point is not about safety realy its usually all about the mighty $ or just another attempt tokeep Jesus out off the picture completely. I wished those that were blinded could see..Unfortunately only those that can see will see and the Lord will open the eyes of thoseothers soon.(EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW) I hope that for those that cannot see..That God would open their eyes. I know Gods will is that ALL should come to him..That one thing OUR LIVING GOD still gives us a FREE CHOICE.Even if America has changed that ..GOD never changes an never will. I pray he opens their eyes before it is too late , then they really will see. and i cry for those as does our LORD..This isnt really about the sign, its about the same old thing for over 2000years..and we all CHRISTIANS know this…deep in our hearts..Youd be surprised some day as to how much we prayed for YOU..Even if you are our enemy or seem to be now..REALLY cuz I really BLV In what I do blv in and that will be settled in Heaven someday I just pray those that are lost, will try and see what we are doing is for them, we have to..WE MUST STAND..you will see why some day I just hope it is here and not there..
Every Christian family needs to start a prayer meeting and bible study in their home NOW! The only thing that will save America is if our nation turns back to its creator.Everyone that knows the power of prayer should pray for this family. People, Know what your rights are as an American Citizen, this family has a right under the first amendment.
Every Christian family needs to start a prayer meeting and bible study in their home NOW! The only thing that will save America is if our nation turns back to its creator.Everyone that knows the power of prayer should pray for this family. People, Know what your rights are as an American Citizen, this family has a right under the first amendment.
We have no idea what sort of community is involved. Ten cars in a cul-de-sac might cause a crowded environment. If they "run a small ministry " that counts as a church, which I would not want next door to my house in a nice neighborhood. If they advertise they must want a larger community of worshippers and that will make the situation worse. We have such little information that it is hard to make a judgment.
We have no idea what sort of community is involved. Ten cars in a cul-de-sac might cause a crowded environment. If they "run a small ministry " that counts as a church, which I would not want next door to my house in a nice neighborhood. If they advertise they must want a larger community of worshippers and that will make the situation worse. We have such little information that it is hard to make a judgment.
We have no idea what sort of community is involved. Ten cars in a cul-de-sac might cause a crowded environment. If they "run a small ministry " that counts as a church, which I would not want next door to my house in a nice neighborhood. If they advertise they must want a larger community of worshippers and that will make the situation worse. We have such little information that it is hard to make a judgment.
Why is the article posted with gray text? It's horrible to try to read.
Why is the article posted with gray text? It's horrible to try to read.
Why is the article posted with gray text? It's horrible to try to read.
Hello, I thought we lived in the United States of America. you mean I can't have my own company in my house that I pay taxes. This is crazy. After all GOD in three Person is living in my home. If I want to do Bible Study Or Church in my home, that is my business. At least I am not doing drugs or making whiskey.
Does nobody on this thread have the critical thinking skills to see that the city was nearly responding to a zoning violation because these people presented their house as a church and it is the same violation as using it as a yogurt shop or clothing store. I don't want a church of any kind run out of my next door neighbors house. That's why there are places we put churches. This story was clearly leaving out huge and important facts and if you can't see that, your lack of critical thinking skills is terrifying. 80% of the people working for that city office probably are Christian. This wasn't just a bible study and this isn't real journalism. It is designed specifically to incite you and make you feel victimized and attacked so you become radicalized and hypocritical and support all of the rest of the crazy agenda of the author's masters even though it is against your interest. And by hypocrisy I mean that if they shut down a Muslim prayer service because it was really a mosque you would all cheer.
Using the lords name in vein actually means to assign his name to things not about him, like your crazy ass agenda of fear hatred and intolerance. Jesus is ashamed of you all.
You don't love your country either- you hate it while longing, along with all the other teabaggers for a false nostalgia and an America you are too gullible and ignorant to realize, never existed.
Sounds like we are in Socialist China or Iran not the United States of America. According to this you cannot have people over for scripture and prayers for the nation and family members.
Separation of church and state goes both ways. The government needs to stay out of the affairs of the church which is the higher authority anyway.
There had to be a little more going on than just a little group gathering informally for Bible study. Looking at their website, I would say so. If they want to be a church, they will have to follow the rules like any other congregation.
http://www.inhimhealingtouchministry.com/index.html
There had to be a little more going on than just a little group gathering informally for Bible study. Looking at their website, I would say so. If they want to be a church, they will have to follow the rules like any other congregation.
http://www.inhimhealingtouchministry.com/index.html
They are it is called the 1st Amendment. The only people that need to be following the rules are the zoning officers.
So are you saying that you can run a regular church out of your home even if it is in a residential area?
So what you are saying is every church or group of people who organize meetings need to get permission and be regulated by the state?
I WONDER WHAT THIS SOUNDS LIKE? HUMMM???
Throughout China’s history, religion has been a source of opposition against imperial forces. Historically, religions that did not comply with current practices of the state were suppressed, which was exemplified by the Party’s efforts to destroy all types of identifiable religious practices under Mao.
In the post-Mao era the Party has maintained the view that religion is something that has the potential to undermine their authority and have sought to regulate and control religious belief and practice. At the same time the Party realizes the international value of creating the outward appearance of religious openness and tolerance.
You know what is so funny is all these zoning and regulation people say that "We are not opposing religion or what you belief, but if you want to practice it at your home you must be registered and get permission from us." All I have to say is, I don't think so and neither does the constitution. Unless you can prove my meetings are blocking streets, causing dangerous traffic issues or creating noise issues, we are protected by the constitutional laws.
Size matters, is what I'm trying to say. An informal bible study is one thing, more or less organized services is another. The article was a little vague on the scope of the activities, so I went to the churches website and it seems more than just some fellow worshipers having bible study. If that is the case, then yes zoning laws can restrict activity. If you lived in a residential neighborhood, having 20 or 30 cars looking for a place to park on a regular basis would be a problem.
That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not arguing with you about that. And if the officials in Venice are acting when there is no reason – no noise, no traffic issues – no firecode problems – then yes, they are grade-A morons and need to be fired. I will also say, that I live on a residential street and if someone started a regular church, synagogue or mosque service next door or down the street and it's causing the above-mentioned problems, then yes, I would complain and I would expect them to abide by the laws. If the congregation becomes too big for the neighborhood, they would have to find a suitable property that can accommodate them. My wife and I go to a church that has moved twice because it outgrew the previous locations – like any good neighbor should.
Christians everywhere are under attack. It is a sign of the times we live in…the END TIMES…it's all in the Bible…it will and IS happening. WE Christians have no rights anymore. We have to fight for what is our GOD GIVEN RIGHT…to Worship him. AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE…WE WILL SERVE THE LORD! got a problem with that? BRING IT
AMEN
I wonder if a Muslim family get together with 10 other Musilms on Friday noon to worship Allah, will city have guts to do the same?
I wonder if a Muslim family get together with 10 other Musilms on Friday noon to worship Allah, will city have guts to do the same?
Did anyone actually read this? Does no one care about facts? Hasn't anyone heard of zoning laws? Do they not apply to Christians? They were running a business out of their home. Let's look specifically at this part: Johnson confirmed that the two cases involve a code infraction regarding the use of a sign and a zoning infraction regarding using their home as a ‘house of worship.’.
The Roessigers run a small ministry called “In Him Healing Touch Ministries.” (THAT IS A BUSINESS, FOLKS) Dacus said like many small ministries, they received mail at their home instead of renting out a post office box. He believed the city used that to build a case against the family.
We run an engineering business out of our home. We have to have a business license and permit, we have to have an off-site mailing address, we can't put out a sign or hang a shingle…in other words there are laws about running a business out of your home, in a residential community, none of which these people were complying with. Now if they had just been doing an occasional bible study or prayer group, that would have been another matter. But just because their business is religious in nature does not mean they get a pass on laws governing the community that are for the good of the community. And for those of you who want to say, "this wasn't a business, it's RELIGION!" I have to say that my religion might not be the same as yours and you might not want me running my religious ceremonies next door to you, you might object to the noise, you might object to the cars parked all over the neighborhood, you might object to a lot of things. But if you are going to claim that "religious freedom" that the Constitution guarantees, you need to remember that it guarantees MY religious freedom as well. How about we all comply with the laws which protect ALL of us.
ok wait you are running abuisness making money..they are doing a bible study…like a book reading club for example..non profit…there is a big difference there
No Debra…they are running a ministry which IS a business. It may be a "non-profit" but it's a business. This is not a case of some people just getting together every once in a while for a bible study. It's a ministry subject to zoning laws. The fact that it is a Christian organization does not give it a pass on following the laws. From the article, "The Roessigers run a small ministry called “In Him Healing Touch Ministries.” " That IS a business.
And remember, I could open a porn shop in my house that might have less neighborhood traffic than what this is generating and call it freedom of speech, freedom of expression, whatever freedom I want to call it but it is still a business and subject to zoning laws.
Or I could have a coven meeting complete with drumming at my house every full moon at midnight and I live right next door to you. That would NOT be a business, just a gathering of people wanting to study our beliefs and share in spiritual experience. Is that going to be ok with you? Well, it wouldn't be ok with me because I would be disturbing the peace…another one of those pesky laws but I don't think I'm exempt from that law just because I'm claiming freedom of religion. I'm still subject to the laws that are in place to protect ALL of us.
Did anyone actually read this? Does no one care about facts? Hasn't anyone heard of zoning laws? Do they not apply to Christians? They were running a business out of their home. Let's look specifically at this part: Johnson confirmed that the two cases involve a code infraction regarding the use of a sign and a zoning infraction regarding using their home as a ‘house of worship.’.
The Roessigers run a small ministry called “In Him Healing Touch Ministries.” (THAT IS A BUSINESS, FOLKS) Dacus said like many small ministries, they received mail at their home instead of renting out a post office box. He believed the city used that to build a case against the family.
We run an engineering business out of our home. We have to have a business license and permit, we have to have an off-site mailing address, we can't put out a sign or hang a shingle…in other words there are laws about running a business out of your home, in a residential community, none of which these people were complying with. Now if they had just been doing an occasional bible study or prayer group, that would have been another matter. But just because their business is religious in nature does not mean they get a pass on laws governing the community that are for the good of the community. And for those of you who want to say, "this wasn't a business, it's RELIGION!" I have to say that my religion might not be the same as yours and you might not want me running my religious ceremonies next door to you, you might object to the noise, you might object to the cars parked all over the neighborhood, you might object to a lot of things. But if you are going to claim that "religious freedom" that the Constitution guarantees, you need to remember that it guarantees MY religious freedom as well. How about we all comply with the laws which protect ALL of us.
Freedom is never more than one generation from extension it has to be fought for and won by each generation
Ronald Regen
I'll bet you a donut that if those folks were Muslims holding Friday prayer meetings we wouldn't be having this discussion.
It is time that we who call ourselves Christians stand up and be counted for Christ. We need to take our nation back, a nation that once believed that our nation was a God fearing believing nation. Our forefathers would roll over in their graves if they could see the sate of our nation. The questions is are you bold enough to stand for our rights not only as Christians, but the rights we were given through our Decleration of Independence and Bill of Rights to be a people who have the freedom to worship and the freedom to speak as was established by our founding forefathers? Stand up America and be counted and make it count for our Nation, home of the brave and land of the free.
As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the last days and so it is now. We ought not be alarmed by it, but I admit I still am.
Think it not strange when fiery trials encompass you.
Did you also know that Lyndon B. Johnson, the racist democrat, was quoted as saying “I’ll have those n*****s voting Democrat for the next 200 years!” in reference to The Great Society?
We knew this day was coming! And now with a Muslim president if he is reelected there will be no freedom of any kind that has God in it! The last days are right around the corner an people need to really understand this is part of our teaching from the bible on the last days! God bless this family and all Christians who are not afraid to stand up for severing the Lord!
he isnt muslim..sheesh
So he say's….Sometimes actions speak louder then words. He certainly isn't Christian…
their's a nrude awakang
Apparently some are not keeping up with news on our president!! He isn't American that's for sure !!
So let me see if I have this straight…….in order to keep from getting zoning infraction fines, you can have a party, barbecue, or something of that nature as long as it is not Christian oriented. Am I reading this BS correctly?
Yes you are, unbelievable isn't it? Guess they better outlaw Superbowl parties …… don't want there to be any gatherings that might build community!
The truth of the story is the sign is in violation of city ordinance which is over 30 years old and is being reviewed potentially to be removed from the books. Venice has no objections to bible study. This writer is spinning the story to cause alarm via misinformation. Here is the original story…http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/19579210/2012/09/18/sign-cross-stir-controversy-in-venice-neighborhood.
A sign in the yard and weekly Bible study. Let's get real and listen to God instead of Satan. If the sign said vote for Obama it wouldn't be a problem or if it was a weekly party that kicked off the weekend or if they were receiving mail for a non Christian organization it wouldn't be a problem. Why should Christians give up their rights. We are first citizens of God's kingdom and second citizens of what's supposed to be a free country
Ya know I think every CHRISTIAN in that neighborhood needs to flood signs in their yards with that exact same phrase on it and stand with those bro.s and sisters in Christ ..This may back the city off a bit if we just all stood together as we should.. I am sure they are not the only Christians there. I think we live in an age where we must stand up..God just says STAND..thats it he will do the rest. I encourage the ppl there to stand with them against this injustice to free speech in our constitution…and freedom of religion and just PLAIN FREEDOM IN AMERICA…
We must be living in the Twilight Zone. This country was founded to have Freedom of our religion. It's true, if a Muslim family wanted to study their religion, would anyone oppose?
Just another excuse for the gov't to take away freedom of religion. May God forgive them….
Unbelievable!!
When I first read this article, I was amazed that something like this was happening in America, so I shared it to my Facebook. Sigh. Then I read all of the comments and re-read the article. There is truth to be found on both sides of opposing voices here in the comments. As a Christian, I am aware of what will be, but guys listen to me now, in this particular article in this particular circumstance. There was NO Christian persecution. These fine people decided to break their zoning laws by running a business out of their home. This was not a simple Bible Study and if they said so, shame on them. They have listed themselves as a business, claimed a tax exempt status, received mail and conducted business at said location. As Christians, we are to give the Lord what is the Lord's and to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. In this case they should have followed the laws that govern them as we are instructed to do. Its as simple at that.
They must be throwing snowballs in hell, because our 1st amendment right is no longer a right, but a license that must be stamped with "OKAY" by the US government before used.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble." If I read the above exert from the United States Constitution correctly, than there should be no case. The city officials have no right to fine a family for hosting a Bible Study, attended by 10 people. If the Bible Study were to be hosted in a government building, I could see the issue. But it's being hosted in the privacy of their home. My question to the government is: Why always target Christians? Do you think we are the only religious group that meets in our homes? I believe Muslims, Mormans, and people of all other religons find private ways to practice their faith. If you're going to go against the constitution and fine people for it, at least be fair and file cases against people of all religons.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble." If I read the above exert from the United States Constitution correctly, than there should be no case. The city officials have no right to fine a family for hosting a Bible Study, attended by 10 people. If the Bible Study were to be hosted in a government building, I could see the issue. But it's being hosted in the privacy of their home. My question to the government is: Why always target Christians? Do you think we are the only religious group that meets in our homes? I believe Muslims, Mormans, and people of all other religons find private ways to practice their faith. If you're going to go against the constitution and fine people for it, at least be fair and file cases against people of all religons.
so I guess this means that you can't pray before a meal? stu pid.