Oct 23, 2012
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Christian students at a Utah college said they were told by administrators that their homecoming decorations were “in poor taste” because they included religious messages and symbols, according to a complaint filed in U.S. District Court.
The Solid Rock Christian Club has also accused Snow College of infringing on free speech rights by reducing the group to a “second tier” status on campus. That means the group would no longer be able to reserve campus rooms, advertise events on campus or receive funding from student fees.
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The lawsuit was filed on behalf of the club by the Alliance Defending Freedom.
“Colleges are supposed to be the marketplace of ideas, not centers of censorship,” said Travis Barham, of the Alliance Defending Freedom. “America’s colleges and universities should recognize that the First Amendment protects the freedom of all students to gather with those of like mind and to express their ideas, including religious students and religious ideas.
“By refusing to treat faith-based student organizations the same as other student groups and by excluding religious speech from homecoming events, Snow College officials have ignored this basic principle,” Barham added. “But we hope they will quickly do the right thing, respect our clients’ freedoms, and eliminate the need for continuing to pursue this lawsuit.”
Alliance Defending Freedom said campus clubs were invited to “Paint the Town,” — decorating the windows of local businesses with the theme: “Then, Now and Forever.”
The Solid Rock club had received permission to paint two windows — one of a privately owned business and the other was a business selected by the school.
The group had already painted one window with a cross and the words: “The cross covers sin then, now and forever.” They were working on a second window when a college official ordered them to stop.
Barham said the students were scolded, threatened and then forced to wash away their display.
Later, college officials removed their first painting, telling students in an e-mail that their Christian message “is in poor taste,” Barham alleged.
After the ADF sent a letter to the college, they received a reply from a Utah state assistant attorney general. The state official said religious views would continue to be prohibited from the homecoming event.”
Among those named in the lawsuit is Scott Wyatt, president of Snow College. He told Fox News that the lawsuit may be the result of a “simple misunderstanding.”
“This is a very small disagreement that we are working through,” Wyatt told Fox News. “I’m very optimistic we will come to a positive solution.”
Wyatt said the college was originally founded by a Christian organization before becoming a state institution. He said 90 percent of the students are Christians.
“Religious clubs are very important on our campus,” he said. “This is not something we are hostile to.”
Wyatt said the Solid Rock Christian Club has a good reputation on campus.
“We value the club,” he said. “They provide a very good service to our students and the students connect with them.”
If that’s the case, why was the club demoted to a second tier status?
According to the college handbook, clubs are not allowed to be affiliated with any commercial or for-profit organization or religious institution, the newspaper reported.
Wyatt said he believed the issue came up during a university audit. The auditor feared the university was violating Utah’s constitution by providing funding to religious groups on campus.
But Wyatt said it was eventually determined they providing space and money to campus religious groups was not a violation. The college president said he suspects that was not communicated to all of the clubs.
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The ACLU would be flying lawyers to the campus right now if this were a Muslim student organization.
probably right because they would be the minority and the Christians would be fighting against them having equal rights….thats what Christians have done since the Puritans came here, actually since Columbus tried to live hear, actually Constantine, Hitler, etc…all used Christianity to kill, murder, rape, oppress, jail, etc….anyone from an different ideology.
Corey, we, on the other hand have used Christianity to help us form the greatest and most prosperous country in the world, or are you one of the America haters? You're certainly liberal.
You're also reaching far in the past for the worst of Christianity. You don't have to go back very far to point to the worst of Islam.
Allah doesn't appear to care much about Muslims as most of them live in poverty, under despots and in danger for their lives. I'd rather have Christianity
God does for His children, no matter what their faith.
Also, I'm almost as tired of being compared to Nazis as I am of being called a bigot. Go lie by your dish (or go lie somewhere else….)
Corey
You really need to retire that old and dragged out generalization of religion. Tell your professors that they need to come up with better material for indoctrinating than this usual typical blather. Makes me yawn all the time…Hitler this, Christianity that. Be more original, boy.
Corey
You really need to retire that old and dragged out generalization of religion. Tell your professors that they need to come up with better material for indoctrinating than this usual typical blather. Makes me yawn all the time…Hitler this, Christianity that. Be more original, boy.
This is a easy one
Public money should be for public message. Religion is not a public message but a private one of faith, that you choose to share with others on your own time.
You live in a liberal fantasy world, corey.
You live in a liberal fantasy world, corey.
David Yatalese . . . Sounds like another 'AINO'; (American IN NAME Only)!
Yes Corey, Christians seem to be the root of all evil. Until you take into account Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, and Mao, who collectively led the largest human extermination in all of history, were all atheist. Hitler publicly embraced Christianity, but regularly expressed his revulsion to his confidants. Calling atheists the root of all evil would silly, but no more ridiculous than your statement.
Yes Corey, Christians seem to be the root of all evil. Until you take into account Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, and Mao, who collectively led the largest human extermination in all of history, were all atheist. Hitler publicly embraced Christianity, but regularly expressed his revulsion to his confidants. Calling atheists the root of all evil would silly, but no more ridiculous than your statement.
Christipher Miller, it is an easy one but your solution is very biased. You split the money between all the the various cultural and religious groups an let them use the facilities. Freedom and liberty means we can tolerate others and their beliefs. The Public is comprised of such, can you deny this?
Yes, but if a state law says you cannot give money to religious causes, because it may show favoritism then that is the law. When america has turned so sue happy, can you blame them?
Corey Mondello … Be glad you live in what you view as such a Fascist state as the USA. If you lived in a Muslim country you'd be burned for the actions the students try to do. Look up how Christians are treated in Orissa in India and in Muslim countries. And…look how they treat girls for just wanting to go to school. You must believe they're practices are more appropriate, right? I disagree.
Christipher Miller, giving to groups fairly and evenly, religious or not, does not show favoritism. And lawyers who would prosecute this kind of fairness and celebration of Liberty should be put in jail. But as you point out the laws of this land have changed and no longer reflect liberty. It's a shame isn't it.
I think the school administraters have been smokin to many dried cow paties.
If God does for his Children no matter what their faith. Then why do we have so many faiths and each has their own meaning of God and what happens in the afterlife. We need to change the word God to Humanity so people can focus on what's important. God is to ambiguous.
I agree it is offensive to refer to Christians, in general, as Nazi's (although most Neo-Nazi group members claim to be Christian) but bigot, well, most are. I am referring, in this instance, to the anti-gay stance that most Christians adhere to. You try and say that is not hatred or bigotry but God that drives your belief that gays can't be 'allowed' to get married, adopt, or maybe serve in the military or that sexual orientation not be added to anti-discrimination laws but bigotry wrapped in faith is still bigotry. You have no right to deny us any right or priviledge that the goverment grants straight people (Christian or otherwise).
I realize I kind of wandered off the original topic but I felt the need.
Corey Mondello
What you don't know makes you who you are. Keep spewing your idiocy, I'll keep laughing.
Jeffrey Clark lives in a world of anti-Islam paranoia and resentment. Why, why, WHY is the first response ALWAYS "If this were a Muslim…!" Why not just admit that you've got no argument?
Jeffrey Clark lives in a world of anti-Islam paranoia and resentment. Why, why, WHY is the first response ALWAYS "If this were a Muslim…!" Why not just admit that you've got no argument?
So how did Obama's words go last night… something like as POTUS you need to stand up for all religions rights… or something along those lines…. guess that was just a tell em what they wonna hear answer….
This is an interesting issue. Living in Utah teaches you that though religion is important in this state, being Christian makes you a minority. It does not surprise me that a reference to the cross would be opposed in this state since the majority LDS population does not believe the cross has significance. If they had painted a picture of Joseph Smith I am sure there would have been no complaints.
The LDS is a Christian church so how is being a Christian a minority? Maybe you meant non-Mormon Christian.
No Patrick, the LDS church is not Christian. The LDS church bases it's faith primarily on the writings of Joseph Smith, and the teachings of the LDS prophets, not Christ. In fact, Christians believe that faith in Christ's death on the cross, and his subsequent resurrection, are all that is necessary for Salvation. Mormons believe that salvation is obtained first through works, and what cannot be accomplished is then covered by Christ. The LDS doctrine is quite different then that of the Christian faith.
So I meant what I said. Just because someone claims to be Christian does not make it true. Speak to some people who were formally members of the LDS church who are now believers and you will learn that the LDS church is not Christian.
Kelly Porter Last time I went by a "mormon" church, it said the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It's always a treat to be told by someone who doesn't belong to our church that we are not Christian especially when it's something as obvious as this. I guess when you state something so confidently, even though you are a totally unqualified, it makes it true. Maybe you even believe what you say is correct but you are wrong.
I've lived in Utah all my life. I don't believe in god at all. But I have NO idea what you're talking about, Kelly. FYI: Mormons don't display crucifixes for a few different reasons. First, they don't go in for public displays of religious symbols, in general. Which is why they wear their religious clothing under their clothes. (No white collars, miters, gongs, etc.) Second, they choose not to focus on the object of their god's torture and execution. Third, they believe that the actual atonement happened in the Garden, and that Jesus voluntarily died on the cross to provide a more understandable symbol of his sacrifice. It's just a fairly trivial doctrinal difference.
Mormons are Christians by every meaningful definition of the term. And it's my observation that they do more to ACT like Christians than most Christians. I've never heard a Mormon make the kind of bigoted statements that you just made.
Snow College is a STATE college. Utah is unusually "liberal" (for lack of a better term) in its enforcement of the made-up "separation of church and state" idea. Religious expression that is even remotely connected to "government" is relentlessly opposed by the State. You really need to get out more and see the rest of the country. You sound like a rube.
Again, it is easy to put something in the name, but that doesn't make something true. If I started a group and called it "The ZZ Tops" would that make us ZZ Top", of course not. It is a great claim of the LDS church that the name is what makes them believers, when in fact a name means nothing if the church doesn't believe in grace by faith alone, through Christ alone.
I know many people who use to belong tot he LDS church who now say "I was worng, blind, and didn't even know it until God showed me the truth". Saying that I can't speak on the matter because I am not LDS is like telling someone they can't speak on the issue of prejudice because they aren't in the KKK. It doesn't take being a member to know what someone believes, one can simply read it for themselves, learn from those who are or were members, and observe.
Johnny Fjord In the recent past, the LDS Church began using Larger Letters for the word 'Jesus Christ' on their church Stones! Just to make it clear that Jesus Christ IS of Great Significance to that Religion! The best Quote I have ever heard about Jesus! Ted de Grazia, when asked what he thought about Jesus, replied: "He looks Very Tired to me!" aka Don't ask Jesus to save you! Ask what/how You can Help Him to lighten His load ! ! ! Go provided US with a World in Perfect Balance, we (Anthropods) have turned-it-upside-down! Social Darwinism' has not worked well!
Roy J Stewart,
Phoenix AZ
Eric, Utah is liberal in this regard when it comes to some religious activities. However, just to note, the words separation of church and state appear nowhere in the Constitution. Additionally, the idea was penned by Ben Franklin in regards to the governments involvement in religion, not religions involvement in the government.
Returning to the previous conversation I am amazed that an intelligent person could actually be fooled by the tactic "we put it in our name so it must be true". It is interesting to note that Bible is very clear on the purpose of the cross as the atoning sacrifice for sin. OT make it anything different is to tell God he is wrong, and I'm not interested in doing that.
Also, I prefer to believe the first hand accounts of those who heard Christ's words, walked with him, and saw him die (that being the disciples) then that of a man who lives centuries later and claimed to see a vision that no one shared in. God simply does not work that vaguely.
I'm "Mormon" and I am most definitely Christian. Honestly if you take two minutes to research "Mormonism" (a nickname) you wouldn't sound so ignorant and say something completely false like "the LDS church is not Christian." Christ is the center of our worship, we read the Bible (King James Version) as well as The Book of Mormon, which was translated by Joseph Smith and not written by him. The book of Mormon focuses on Christ's teachings and presents clear points of doctrine that can be confusing in the Bible, such as Baptism, etc. So yes Kelly the LDS church is very very much Christian and sharing trying to slander something good, doesn't tear it down just makes you look at little confused. would love to her your definition of what Christian is.. that makes Mormon not Christian. Here is a link for you to do a little research from an actual creditable source on Mormonism http://www.lds.org/?lang=eng.
Christian, those who focus on God's teachings, believe the Bible is the one and only authoritative word of God. Those who believe in salvation by grace alone, not of works so we have no cause to boast, which is clear in the Bible. A Christian is someone who believes Christ is the only son of God, is God, and came as man to save the world though the shedding of blood, clear in the Bible. The LDS church claims these things, but chooses to add to them it's own teachings.
I have no issue with someone who chooses to be LDS, I do however have issue with them claiming to be Christians. In fact George Hinckley, as President of the LDS church, admitted not to believe in the same Christ as Christians, so why the desire to claim the same name? I have no issue with his choice, or anyone elses, to believe something different. God gives us free will, however the name Christian comes with the understanding that Christians believe in the same Christ. The LDS church simply does not believe in the same Christ.
Sorry that is Gordon, not George, not sure where my hands got the idea for that.
Kelly Porter Your ignorance is monumental.
Name calling, intelligent tactic.
Kelly, I believe you still don't understand, Your traditional creeds are what separate LDS Christians from yourself, it certainly is not the Bible and its teachings. The Book of Mormon also has many first hand accounts of the resurrected Christ, as they were also his sheep. You can argue all day about what you think your doctrinal differences are but it won't bring you one inch closer to Christ or make you correct.
Kelly Porter, here's a quote from C.S. Lewis for you to think about.
In his book "Mere Christianity":
"The name Christians was first given at Antioch (Acts 11:26) to 'the disciples', to those who accepted the teachings of the apostles."
He goes on to make a point, that of being a Christian:
"The point is not a theological or moral one. It is only a question of using words so that we can all understand what is being said. When a man who accepts Christian doctrine and lives unworthily of it, it is much better to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian"
"Now if once we allow people to start spiritualising and refining, or as they might say 'deepening' the sense of the word Christian, it too will become a useless word. In the first place, Christians themselves will never be able to apply it to anyone. It is not for us to say who, in the deepest sense, is or is not close to the spirit of Christ. We do not see into men's hearts."
A Christian is someone whose heart has been changed by God. A Christian is someone who has put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. They know that they are saved only by grace and not by any works that they do (Eph 2:8-9). They understand that their own righteousness is like filthy rags to Almighty God (Is 64:6). A Christian holds fast to the divinely inspired, inerrant Word of God (Is 55:11,Matt. 5:18,Luke 16:17) and looks only there for wisdom and instruction.
Michael, thank you for putting into words better what I tried to explain. Steve, you are right in that I cannot see into a man's hear, but I can read what a specific religion teaches. The LDS religion simply does not fall into line with the teachings of the Bible. Just because they read it doesn't mean they believe it all. Christ died once for all, rose, and ascended into heaven on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the father. He hasn't left there since, and will remain there for eternity.
MichaelandHope Waldrop, LDS can agree with most of what you are saying that one can only be saved through the grace of Christ alone but accepting his grace also means we follow his teachings.
Matthew 7:21
21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Do you think the sermon on the mount was just a suggestion? Or in fact was it a pattern the Lord wanted us to follow? How do you account of the entire book of James?
James 2:10 -17
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Kelly you wrote, "Just because someone claims to be Christian does not make it true." It is also true that just because someone claims that someone is not Christian doesn't make it true.
Well Kelly, we simply do not agree because I and 15 million other LDS believe the teachings fall perfectly in line with what Christ and is Apostles taught. I suggest you stop trying to spiritualise what you think a Christian is, you will in fact loose the whole concept as C. S. Lewis explains. Yes we read all the Bible and believe it more Literally than any Christian sect I know.
I would rather be called wrong every day then to deny what I know is true. Good night.
Yes Kelly, Christ died once for all, not sure what your point is. Where does it say in the Bible the the resurrected Christ could not come to earth or to another people? In fact the Bible makes it clear where there is sufficient faith he and his father can make their abode with us. Are you claiming Christ did not return to his many followers after his resurrection? Are you sure you have read the Bible?
typical bigot…knowing little….
Kelly, You don't have to deny the the truth, all the good things you know are good and true in the Bible, I don't wish to discourage this belief but please don't be to quick to say to those who do not embrace all your traditional creeds that they are not Christian. I believe you are Christian and I believe the Jehovah Witnesses are Christian and Catholics and Lutherans and Evangelist etc etc etc are Christian.
Kelly Porter …you are dealing with protestant talking points…read the bible and really study prayerfully and the trite frases of men will melt away as the spirit teaches you…with a hardened heart toward beliefs that are not yours you walk without the spirit God offers and you find yourself a bigot….shalom
Johnny Fjord; Kudos. I'm not Mormon (not much of anything, truth be told), but two of my best friends are and more Christian people you'll not find.
BTW like your handle. Is Fjord your real name or a nick? Either way, it's cool.
Kelly Porter; That sounds like a very tactful way of saying that LDS is a cult and as such, not legitimate. We are only human. We don't have the knowledge, expertise or right to judge.
Anyway, Mormons live Christian lives, however you describe their doctrines. Somehow, I don't think God will make any distinctions on Judgement Day, or whatever finality you believe in. At least I hope not, for my sake, sinner that I am.
Kelly Porter; That sounds like a very tactful way of saying that LDS is a cult and as such, not legitimate. We are only human. We don't have the knowledge, expertise or right to judge.
Anyway, Mormons live Christian lives, however you describe their doctrines. Somehow, I don't think God will make any distinctions on Judgement Day, or whatever finality you believe in. At least I hope not, for my sake, sinner that I am.
Kelly Porter just because someone judges another person unrighteously and says he is NOT Christian, does not make NOT Christian. See? You have no authority to declare what is in someone's heart. You condemn things you have never read, and support other things you know nothing about. All your statement does is fulfill two Biblical scriptures: Matthew 7:1-2 and John 16:2. You go about killing others spiritually and putting them out of your synagogues and think you serve God by doing so. Please do some homework before you condemn others for their beliefs. We believe in and love Jesus as much as you do.
Kelly Porter, I, myself am Mormon…have been my entire life. If you get your information from biased sources, your information is unreliable. Do you not think that the majority of former Mormons are jaded? Afterall, there has to be a reason they decided to leave the church and I know many that do have resentments after choosing to no longer affiliate with the LDS faith. It is a very strict religion and that doesn't always sit well with it's members. So, your information is completely unreliable. If you really want to know what we believe, it's as simple as finding your local LDS church, what time they hold meetings on Sunday, and then attend. It will take you months though, of actively attending, to truly understand what we believe and I think once you've done that, you'd agree that Mormons are, in fact, Christians.
You stated that Mormons primarily use the Book Of Mormon as their scriptural reference. You're wrong. We use the King James version of the Bible, as well and believe the teachings in both compliment each other. We believe the Book Of Mormon is just an additional testament of Christ. All you'd have to do is open it up to the first page to see that. (You obviously have done little research.) The ONLY way I can see that Mormons are set apart from other organized Christian religions is that we don't believe in the Trinity. We believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate personages. If, by that definition, we aren't considered Christian, then I suppose we aren't. But who chooses what is defined and considered Christian and what is not? Either way, I believe what I believe, no matter what it's labeled.
Another thing, Eric Anderson was completely right about the reason we don't display Crucifixes. I was going to explain that, but he pretty much said all there is to say about it.
You act as if the LDS church is somehow a cult and SO mysterious. It astounds me that people can believe that. All you have to do is step foot in our church building and you're welcomed by open arms. We're notorious for our persistently annoying missionaries constantly banging on your door, willing to share our beliefs, in hopes you'll want to listen. Does that sound like a church who wants to hide it's beliefs??
May I ask why it even matters to you that the LDS Church is considered Christian or not? Frankly, I don't see how it affects you, one way or another.
Tell me Johnny, do the LDS members believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet? Do they believe that the Book of Mormon is holy scripture? Have any other Christian denominations accepted the Book of Mormon as holy scripture? Have they not instead denounced it? What about Brigham Young? I understand that LDS believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and based on that alone I suppose you could call yourself Christians but well, I don't think so.
The sermon on the mount points out our need for a Savior. Are you perfect? (Matt 5:48) Not me. I know of no one who can live up to this. Not only is murder a sin(5:21-22) …but also anger at your brother. Adultery and also lusting.(Matt 5:27-28). Have you ever lashed out at someone in anger? Have you ever lusted after someone? Have you ever lied? If the answer to any of these is yes then you're in trouble. We are all in the same boat…sinners before a holy God. Only perfection is accepted. What can one say about sins? Do we hope that God will sweep them under the rug and say.."Come on in to Heaven…it's alright. You're excused?' It will never happen. We are all sinners (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23) Our sinfulness has earned us eternal separation from Godl (The wages of sin is death. (that means spiritual death forever in hell) Romans 6:23) and our only hope is to cry out to Jesus for forgiveness of our sins and put our faith and trust in his redemptive work on the cross. When he went to the cross he took the punishment for all the sins of those who belong to him. When we put our faith and trust in him for salvation his righteousness/goodness counts for us. We don't have to try (and ultimately fail over and over again) to be good enough for heaven. As for the book of James. It's awesome! I love it. Just like I love all of the Holy Bible. I'm so thankful that I can serve my Savior each and every day…and I do it out of love for him because of what he's done for me! And I'm not trying to earn my way. His righteousness counts for me. It's a free gift from God. It's all about grace. Do I want to obey God and follow ALL his commands? YES! Am I able to do that perfectly? NO! But as a Christian I have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me to be more like Christ each day. This is true for ANYONE who call out to God for forgiveness of sins and put their faith in Jesus Christ alone. Don't insult God by trying to earn salvation and bring glory to yourself. Give HIM all the glory! Accept the free gift!
MichaelandHope Waldrop, Your Quote: "We don't have to try (and ultimately fail over and over again) to be good enough for heaven. As for the book of James. It's awesome! I love it. Just like I love all of the Holy Bible."
Michael, Your feelings about the Bible and its teaching are not much different with the exception of the meaning of repentance. None of us are perfect, this is obviously true, but to say consistent improvement, by not falling back into old bad habits or behavior is not possible, this is an evil lie and deception to push on anyone. The gospel of repentance is the gospel Christ taught. it is a gospel of change, a gospel of improvement, a gospel to overcome the evils of this world. It does not come without trying! Repentance is a life long process in applying the Saviors atonement to overcome our weakness and become more "perfected". If you read the Bible carefully you will see the Lord wants all people to repent and do it consistently, not give into sin and weakness. If you actually do believe James you will admit we should be doers of the word and not hearers only.
Jo Ann Jury, Joseph Smith is a prophet and the Book of Mormon is holy Scripture in the same way the Bible is. It was written by ancient prophets (Holy men) called of God, they were moved to write it by the Holy Ghost/Spirit. This is how we get scripture and the Bible clearly states this. Weather other Christian sects accept it as scripture has nothing to do with it being so. You can also certainly think the LDS Church is not a Christian Faith but that also does not make it so. My feeling is the LDS are closer to Christ and his Gospel then any denomination of Christian believing people and I have many good reasons to think. so.
MichaelandHope Waldrop, BTW I nor the LDS people insult God by trying to live a Christ like life and in fact do honor and Glorify his name by doing so. Those who insult him are those who claim to be Christians but do not make an effort to live Christ like, They make excuses for not improving and live as hypocrites.
Steve,
So…you're not only Christians but you're better than any other Christian denomination
How nice for you
What if "Welcome Home, Allah Loves You" was something some group wanted to promote? I doubt highly those whiney Christians would be quiet about that.
Wrong again, Corey. Christians would allow it because it's the law. Christians are inclusive, unlike Muslims and, for that matter liberals.
It don't bother me none.
It don't bother me none.
Bothers me some, I don't want any religion to be sponsored by my money, unless I choose to give it to them. Be it student fees or taxes. An yes some Christians would be all over that, juts like some Muslims would protest if you did something that offended them in some way. Each side as their bigots and closed minded.
Did it ever occur to you that the windows they were painting was be paid for out of the students own pocket. You are quite close minded yourself. My taxes are going for things I don't agree with and I am not given a choice, this is a stale argument on your part so let it just die.
Corey, Are you aware that We 'Infidels' are prohibited from praying to Allah?
Corey, Are you aware that We 'Infidels' are prohibited from praying to Allah?
Christipher Miller Well, I'm Christian and I pay a lot of taxes and I want my tax money used to promote Christian values.
Christipher Miller Well, I'm Christian and I pay a lot of taxes and I want my tax money used to promote Christian values.
Why? your tithe should go to that for your local church.
Christopher Miller, gotta agree with you there. In religion as with everything else, we are all exclusive by nature. It's a tribal thing…
Christipher Miller, now you are not making any sense.. should there be any groups that get any money from the schools? If any get money all should be able to share it evenly, That's called tolerance and fair play, Is this really that foreign to you?
Yup, bigotry against religious clubs still continue to run amok at these institutions of higher learning and free thinking. It's laughable that these schools are ok with activities on campus as long as they are politically correct and leftward leaning. How very partisan and yet ignorant.
Yup, bigotry against religious clubs still continue to run amok at these institutions of higher learning and free thinking. It's laughable that these schools are ok with activities on campus as long as they are politically correct and leftward leaning. How very partisan and yet ignorant.
Sounds like a snow job at Snow College.
Sorry, nay-sayers, Kelly is right. Regardless of their name, Mormons are NOT Christians. The LDS church believes in the Bible, "in as much as it supports and agrees with our sacred documents (Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price). Again, folks, Morons are not Christians.
I'm sure they'll let us know when the "universities" like that one begin notifying us they have banned Atheist or Muslim faith decorations as being in "poor taste".
Kelly Porter is correct, the Mormons (LDS) do not believe in the cross and they never display or wear a cross. Is this was a picture of Joseph Smith there would not be a problem at all. There is not separation from Church and State in Utah, this proves that point. They will even change New Years Eve if it falls on a Sunday or any Holiday actually.
As to changing holidays, Rob, Christianity itself doesn't qualify
why do you think Christianity celebrates Christmas in December when according to their own scholars, Jesus was more likely born earlier in the year? That is because the pagan end-of-year celebration happened in December (quite a drunken, naked gala, I understand) and religious leaders needed to attract people away from the pagan beliefs.
That's why Christmas is such a mixed holiday. How many Christmas trees are grown in Jerusalem and where does Santa fit in?
For that matter, what do bunnies and eggs have to do with the Ascension of Christ at Easter (read that Ishtar, look it up)? Same story.
So what are you saying exactly? That is OK to change New Years Eve because it falls on a Sunday? Do you agree with that? Do you think the LDS Christians would have had Joesph Smith taken off that window the same way they had the cross removed?
What is your ideology?
We do believe that Christ hung and died for us all on the cross. We do choose, however, to worship the resurrected Christ, the one that overcame death for all man kind. This is why we do not wear a cross or hang one on our buildings. Its not because we don't "believe" in the cross, we choose to celebrate what He overcame, THE CROSS!
So why remove the cross then? Exactly you do not believe in displaying or showing the cross and that's why you wanted it removed from the windows.
Did you not read the entire article? Read the last 6 lines, including, "According to the college handbook, clubs are not allowed to be affiliated with any commercial or for-profit organization or religious institution, the newspaper reported." I couldn't care less who chooses to wear a cross, it doesn't offend me in the least. I choose not to, why does that offend you?
Suppression and oppression offend me. I believe in freedom of expression and speech and do not agree with suppression. This is a form of suppression based on a handbook as a way to suppress. Do you think every law is gospel just because it's a written law? No, they come and change depending on who is in power. It's never about what's right! It's always about the view points of who is in charge.
I agree.
Actually this is not quite correct.
The cross was used in the early days of the Church as a religious symbol although it was far from prevalent. Indeed, the cross was not universally used by many Christian denominations at the time.
The development of an active aversion of the cross is a relatively recent phenomenon in LDS practice. Try this link for an interesting historical look at the issue http://wildernesschristianity.net/info/LDS/The-Cross.html
You don't have a clue Rob.
Rob Gillen, again you still don't have a clue, Snow College is not an LDS college. You have a argument with the administrators of this Non-LDS Christian school, quit bashing the LDS needlessly.
Steve I may be incorrect about they wouldn't have Joseph Smith removed, maybe they would. But I am not incorrect about how the LDS change any Holiday that falls on a Sunday to a different day and I am not incorrect about they do not display the cross. I am also not incorrect on how oppression is offensive and should not be tolerated.
? Change any holiday, I must have missed something, what holiday did the LDS Change? Even if a group choose a different day to celebrate why would that brother you? We don't use the cross as a symbol of our worship, this is correct. We have been commanded by the Lord to worship the living God not how he died. We don't hold others to this standard. You will find however the are many paintings, art works, videos and media that do tell the story of the cross. Do you feel oppressed by someone or some group?
I do feel oppressed when New Years Eve is changed to a different day because it falls on a Sunday, when Halloween is changed because it falls on a Sunday. How can New Years be changed to any other day, by changed I mean celebrated in the city on a different day other then Sunday.
Are you saying that the city council voted to change a day of celebration or the LDS Church decided a different day to celebrate? What kept you from celebrating?
Why do Christain's have to leave their religious beliefs at the door of our school's of higher education?
why not? this open exchange of ideas is what makes America great
IT WAS MORMON'S WHO DID THIS AGAINST NONE MORMONS.THIS WAS DONE BECAUSE THESE STUDENTS WERE NOT MORMON.mormons are not considered christians by other chrstians so this was payback.
IT WAS MORMON'S WHO DID THIS AGAINST NONE MORMONS.THIS WAS DONE BECAUSE THESE STUDENTS WERE NOT MORMON.mormons are not considered christians by other chrstians so this was payback.
Get back on your meds, Mark.
Why don't students hit them where it hurts? In the pocketbook, leave the school and take your tuition with you and while there don't support the sports or extra curricular . Christians need to stay strong, we are the next holocaust,
This is the last state where I expected to see this kind of crap…
The First Amendment prohibited an established state religion. Displaying art does not establish a religion… even if it endorses religion.
Wow – did Snow College really think it was a good idea to allow college students to paint messages and pictures on local businesses' windows? Who knows what kind of outrageous stuff they could have put up. Surely this was asking for trouble from day 1 – as soon as a 'controversial' topic came up you were going to be in deep do-do. And these businesses – didn't they realise that something would be put on their windows that they weren't in control of and might offend customers? Other than that – I agree completely with Joe – if LDS can't be sensitive to the idea of religious persecution and be careful to avoid it, then we have truly failed to learn the lessons of our past.
What does this have to do with the LDS faith? Do you have some info no one else does?
Romney can't keep his word… here are his biggest flip/flops… CAN ANYONE BELIEVE IN THIS GUY? http://clnk.me/1y9bQ
What makes you think he was not keeping his word? did you even listen to the debate? The stupidity of the Obama administration of broadcasting a withdrawal date? why would you tell your enemy's when you are leaving? Romney's point is you should not tell them, you stick to your schedule and leave behind a small transition and training force, keep a presence. This is what Obama tried but failed to do in Iraq. Obama is an armature and fails at everything except giving free stuff to those who are better served by having real jobs.
What makes you think he was not keeping his word? did you even listen to the debate? The stupidity of the Obama administration of broadcasting a withdrawal date? why would you tell your enemy's when you are leaving? Romney's point is you should not tell them, you stick to your schedule and leave behind a small transition and training force, keep a presence. This is what Obama tried but failed to do in Iraq. Obama is an armature and fails at everything except giving free stuff to those who are better served by having real jobs.