Oct 5, 2012
Print This Post
Conservative students at Azusa Pacific University, an evangelical Christian university near Los Angeles, have been blocked from starting a chapter of Young Americans for Freedom because the school took issue with the group’s principles.
FOLLOW TODD ON FACEBOOK FOR CULTURE WAR STORIES. CLICK HERE TO JOIN!
The YAF is a program sponsored by the Young America’s Foundation — dedicated to introducing young people to the ideas of individual freedom, a strong national defense, free enterprise and traditional values. The foundation also owns and preserves the Reagan Ranch.
Patrick Coyle, vice president of the Young America’s Foundation, said they were approached by students who wanted to be recognized as a YAF chapter.
“They were told by the administrators that they could not change their name because they had looked at our website and didn’t like the language we used,” Coyle told Fox News.
University administrators said they have absolutely no problem with conservative clubs — but they did have an issue with YAF — and references on their website to liberal professors and radical feminists who are trying to take over college campuses across the nation.
Ashley Blackwell was one of the students hoping to launch the YAF chapter. She is currently the president of the Young Conservatives club on campus.
“It is really disappointing that a school, which promotes diversity and uses the mantra ‘everyone matters,’ would ban an existing club from changing its name,” she told Breitbart.com — which first reported the incident.
So Coyle called Chuck Strawn, the director of the university’s “Office of Communiversity.”
“I asked if there were any written rules the students had violated and he said no,” Coyle said. “He said it was just their opinion.”
He said the specific language Azusa Pacific took issue with is:
“Are you tired of liberal ideas dominating your campus? Are you tired of liberal and Marxist professors indoctrinating your classmates? Do you want to advance conservatism?
“If you answered yes, then you should start a Young Americans for Freedom chapter. YAF chapters make a difference by boldly advancing freedom and conservatism.
“Radical feminists, big government bureaucrats, fringe environmentalists, race-baiters, Islamo-fascists, and run of the mill leftists are distraught that you would even think about promoting conservative ideas.”
“It is even more frustrating that this censorship isn’t even due to school rules or policy,” Blackwell told Breitbart.com. “They just don’t agree with language on YAF’s website about colleges having liberal professors. I guess the truth hurts.”
Coyle agreed, noting, “I think that it’s very arrogant on their part to say what students can call their own group. That should be up to the students — and not the administrators.”
Jennifer Walsh, the associate dean for Azusa Pacific’s college of liberal arts, was a part of the discussions that ultimately led to the group being banned.
“We are sensitive to the need to make sure we are keeping our Christ-centered identity first and not allow students to align themselves with groups that are overtly partisan,” she told Fox News.
Walsh confirmed that the university’s student life director “was a little troubled” by some of the language on the YAF website.
“The (website) seemed to be intentionally pitched to students who are facing a hostile learning environment,” she said. “That’s not what we have at Azusa Pacific.”
She said the university ultimately determined the club would not be a good fit.
“It wasn’t so much that YAF is promoting conservative views,” she said. “It was more that it didn’t match the climate on campus. It might encourage discourse that is overtly partisan.”
The university does not have a College Republican or Young Democrat group. Instead, they offer a conservative club and a progressive club.
Walsh said it was “unfortunate this student has created a firestorm” over what she called a misunderstanding.
“We’re trying to avoid those same polarizing discourses that are happening in society,” she said. “Not that we don’t have healthy deliberation. We do. But we tend to do it from a biblical perspective — which encourages unity rather than divisiveness.”
Related posts:
- Lawsuit: University Ordered Christian Club to Allow Non-Christian Leaders
- Vanderbilt Says Christian Club Can’t Require Leaders to be Devout Christians
- Conservative Student Denied Entry to Michelle Obama Speech
- Obama Campaign’s Ejection of Student Raises Liberal Bias Questions
- School Bans ‘Schindler’s List’ Producer for Being Conservative
FOX News Talk
Fascists pretending to be liberal Democrats. What a surprise……not.
I'm so sick and tired of these so called Christian establishments not having a back bone and trying to be all PC, in the name of Christian unity. They lack any courage to stand up for what is right or for what they say they believe in and are so afraid that someone may call them bigots and close minded. Sadly many if not most are Christian in word only, bowing to the god of money and the praise of worldly men. They are ever continuing to be transformed to the image of the world, instead of the image of Christ!
Maybe they are having a backbone and are standing up for what they believe in. If they object to the language of the organization, they don't have to support it. They are a private school.
They might be tempted to call you a so called Christian because they believe differently from you. There are as many Christian (and other) sets of dogma as there are different churches. That doesn't make them or you any more right than the other.
Lewis, you are part of the problem. Christ is Truth, personified. The issue is whether Truth is to accepted, or denied. Whiule I will not judge one on one's beliefs (that is between you and the Lord), I find nothing in His teachings that says we must submit to an unjust denial of our beliefs to profess His word. It is my belief that He taught us to spread His word, and He warned us that there would be resistance and consequences. He also instructed us to perservere, and have Faith in Him. This requires spiritual "backbone", without fear of worldly consequences.
Please pardon my typos.
a Christian is supposed to follow the moral absolutes as written in God's Law, if this school chooses to abide by their own dogma instead of God's then yes, they are less right than those who do, such as the students (maybe they should be the ones teaching). and as far as other churches having many different dogmas, this is true just like there are many ways of doing something wrong. there is only 'dogma' that is good, right, and worth following- and that is only found in The Creator's instruction manual for life, the Holy Bible.
God does not care about life or death when He tells you to do somthing . We are to be prayed up without fear .Say what we need to say,and do before He changes his mind about you.
ANOTHER BUNCH OF ALL-AMERICAN ASSHOLES GETTING IN THE WAY OF FREEDOM.
We took our kids OUT of a "Christian" school. This one was grades K-12. Humanism was CLEARLY taking over. They couldn't SEE what they were doing. I understand where this co called "Christian" college is coming from and totally DISAGREE with them.
We took our kids OUT of a "Christian" school. This one was grades K-12. Humanism was CLEARLY taking over. They couldn't SEE what they were doing. I understand where this co called "Christian" college is coming from and totally DISAGREE with them.
So Lewis are you saying the TRUTH is multiple choice?
Truth is NOT multiple choice depending on how you FEEL that day.
Tec Sg Beatty
I'm certainly glad, Nancy, that you have all of the truth held in your hand, and that anyone who disagrees with you is following a false truth. It must be comforting to know the path to salvation runs directly through you.
Tec Sg Beatty I read the dialog and have to agree with some of what you, Lewis and Dave say as well as some disagreement. Being conservative, my views are in tune with the YAF. Although I do feel that many conservative views are in tuned with Christian values, what comes out of politics, and even religion, isn't always a reflection of Christian values. What Lewis says that I agree with and to put in my own words is in general too many different realms of the Christian faith think they are the right ones and other are wrong, to put it simply, as I've seen too much of this divisiveness which leads to some to put the label "so-called Christian" where maybe such a label doesn't belong. Putting these differences aside, Christians as a whole believe in basic beliefs and vaules, and yes, we need the backbone without fear of worldly consequences.
While I would agree that political divisiveness doesn't need to be a part of a christian school, there are certain things that need to be stood up for. Pro-life, DOMA, fiscal responsibility, and the Constitution all fall into the conservative side of politics but I would argue are all biblically supported positions as opposed to pro-choice, gay marriage, marxism, radical environmentalism, and progressivism which all place man in God's seat as creator and Lord of life. The latter all fall into modern day liberalism and I cannot understand how a true born again Christian, would not be able to determine the difference between what is right and wrong and say that Pro-life is good and abortion is wrong.
Tec Sg Beatty What a myopic ignorant opinion–so "Christ is "Truth", and….what….."Truth" is…..promoting bigotry and hate against "Radical feminists, big government bureaucrats, fringe environmentalists, race-baiters, Islamo-fascists"??!?!
You're genuinely either a hypocrite or an inoramus.
Nancy Law "Humanism" IS what Jesus preached. You're clueless.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz I'm not on the same side as those who are referred to as "Radical feminists, big government bureaucrats, fringe environmentalists, race-baiters, Islamo-fascists", but I agree with your point. I fight them in the political arena, not in the religious arena. Christ taught love and forgiveness, and that even includes loving those who don't share your views as well. And yes, those who are given those labels include some who also have hatred in their hearts. Hatred goes both ways.
I wrote a couple posts, and let me clarify that I have some trouble with a university banning the YAF, and I do understand that a Christian university may have trouble when the political rhetoric is opposite of the values of that school. It's one thing to stand up what you believe in, such as being pro-life, freedom of religion, etc., but it's something else when what maybe viewed at hate-filled rhetoric is a result. If the school bans liberal groups for the same reason, then it is not being biased. If it allows liberal groups, then they are concerned with the PC that is plaguing the country. I'll conclude that one doesn't do their political or religious views a favor when diviseness (to include hatred) is promoted, or when the term "so called Chrisitian" is used. One can be even more effective and perhaps stronger in standing up for their principles when such diviseness isn't used.
Marc Servos I don't see any Liberal groups accusing people of being "Marxist", or using divisive "coded language" like "“Radical feminists, big government bureaucrats, fringe environmentalists, race-baiters, Islamo-fascists, and run of the mill leftists" to caricature anyone who disagrees with their very narrow definition of what makes an American?
After surveying the comments on this article, it's clear that Zizzer Zazzer is a troll with nothing better to do than create fake online identities to harass anybody who disagrees with his ideology. I advise you to block him so he can no longer see your posts and force you to waste your time and energy on pointless arguments.
You are right, Dave!! Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
The point I was making was focused on how some use the term "so called Christian" or other methods of what is a reflection of judging, etc., agreeing with the point you were making. As far as political divisiveness is concerned, I've heard PLENTY of liberals using the most inflammatory and hatefilled remarks to describe conservatives. Fascists, Nazis, racists are a few examples, whereas most (over 99%) conservatives are NOT those as described. And to be fair, I know liberals see that from conservatives. It's one thing to stand up for your principles, but it's another thing to use such vitriol which in effect does more to one's discredit than credibility.
Since when are Christians supposed to remain neutral in politics for the sake of "unity"? Jesus told us to disciple the nations to obey everything He commanded, INCLUDING in the political realm. Political parties are part of that process. Essentially the school is telling the students that involvement with a political party is not Biblical, and they should sit on the sidelines while the Secularists run the show. Hogwash! Was it "divisive" and un-Biblical for Bonhoeffer to stand up against his government's tyrannical and unscriptural policies? I'm so sick of Christians hiding behind the excuse of "unity" and "neutrality" for their refusal to take a stand for righteousness. They keep abandoning politics to the Secularists and then wonder why they're not making an impact in the culture or direction of the nation.
They need to read "Myths, Lies, & Half-Truths: How Misreading the Bible Neutralizes Christians" by Gary DeMar, Ph.D., and "Jesus is involved in politics!: Why aren't You? Why isn't your Church?" by Neil Mammen.
Since when are Christians supposed to remain neutral in politics for the sake of "unity"? Jesus told us to disciple the nations to obey everything He commanded, INCLUDING in the political realm. Political parties are part of that process. Essentially the school is telling the students that involvement with a political party is not Biblical, and they should sit on the sidelines while the Secularists run the show. Hogwash! Was it "divisive" and un-Biblical for Bonhoeffer to stand up against his government's tyrannical and unscriptural policies? I'm so sick of Christians hiding behind the excuse of "unity" and "neutrality" for their refusal to take a stand for righteousness. They keep abandoning politics to the Secularists and then wonder why they're not making an impact in the culture or direction of the nation.
They need to read "Myths, Lies, & Half-Truths: How Misreading the Bible Neutralizes Christians" by Gary DeMar, Ph.D., and "Jesus is involved in politics!: Why aren't You? Why isn't your Church?" by Neil Mammen.
Sounds like a pitch from the "compromisers"
Sounds like a pitch from the "compromisers"
Christians have got to speak up!
Salt and Light are needed in this world.
They're more worried about being "liked" and afraid of "offending" anyone. You know what? Jesus was hated and offended a whole lot of people, because He spoke the truth without compromise, even to political leaders like the Pharisees and Pontius Pilate. John the Baptist was martyred for criticizing Herod's adultery. Every prophet of God throughout the Bible challenged their kings and rulers, reminding them that they were NOT above God's law. Imagine if all of them had said, "I can't get involved because it's 'political' and I'm supposed to be 'neutral'." All it is is Moral Relativism disguised as piety.
“Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2).
Oh, we do! When it came to our kids we pulled them OUT of a K-12 school and made it known WHY we did it. Yes, the "progressives" saw us as being "divisive" but TRUTH is TRUTH. We don't live our lives to please compromisers and cowards. We lead it to please God.
Let this university KNOW what you think of them:
http://www.apu.edu/webservices/feedback/
This weekend our pastor, a city commissioner, and pastor across our nation will take a stand. Politics will be discussed and a video mailed to the IRS. We do not relinguish our rights as citizens because we are Christians.
Excellent point Mrs. Bjorklund!
Excellent point Mrs. Bjorklund!
Actually conservatism is not a political party, it's an ideaology…Other than that, yes you're absolutely correct Rachel, and very good points you made.
when John rebuked Herod for having his brother's wife, was he being political? Herod was a public official, he was the ruler, the one who was in charge in that province; so would you folks who don't want to get 'involved' or think it non-Christian to speak up for what is good and holy, would you think John the Baptist was wrong? we'd best 'get involved' we are a republic, not a democracy, know who your congressman is, and make sure he/she knows who you are by your letters, phone calls and emails….then vote according to what you know is biblical, and look at the platforms of the party, if it's for abortion, non-traditional marriage, against Israel, and religious freedom, it is likely Democrat. the Republican party is pro-life, for traditional marriage, pro-Israel and pro-religious freedom. Be a responsible citizen, since we have the representative type government, we can't just leave it to the government to 'work it all out' for us…..
Rachel, I now know why I like you so much! ;0)
This is excellent. Well said friend.
Stanley Craig Perry, I highly recommend doing a more thorough study of Romans 13. Ephesians 5 does NOT mean a battered wife is required to "submit" to beatings and abuse. Likewise, Romans 13 does NOT mean that citizens must submit to ungodly policies or abuses of power that exceed their scriptural and constitutional authority. NO man or ruler is above God's law.
Romans 13: Setting it straight
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/baldwin/110729
The impotent church and Romans 13
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/baldwin/110310
APU is not promoting neutrality. We have a conservative group and a progressive group. It was the inflammatory and devisive language used by this group that caused APU to take issue. You will also find no gay/ straight alliance at APU. As a private university, the school has the right to decide what it allows in its campus. I find it annoying that people who know nothing about the school apart from this article feel that they can make unilateral judgements about it. Ask any student who went there- liberal brainwashing it ain't.
Sometimes the Truth is "inflammatory." I'm sure people thought it was "divisive" when Jesus called the Pharisees out as "whitewashed tombs" and "a brood of vipers" – but that's exactly what they were, and He called it as He saw it. Americans have gotten used to following a neutered version of Jesus who never offended anybody. That's not the Jesus of the Bible.
The terms "Marxist" and "Islamo-fascist" are not slurs – they are accurate descriptions of the ideologies we are up against. Sometimes the truth hurts. That doesn't mean we shouldn't speak it for fear of "offending" someone. That's not the example Jesus gave us – nor any of His prophets since the creation. As a Christian University, APU should be encouraging students to speak the truth, even if some people are offended, just as Jesus did. Stop following the world's ungodly example of "political correctness," which seeks to whitewash and hide the truth. Stop suppressing groups with the gonads to speak the truth that most Christians are too afraid or ignorant to speak.
George Markos And the IRS will launch an investigation and remove your tax-exempt status for politicking–which is expressly forbidden under Law.
NO SPECIAL RIGHTS FOR CHRISTIANS! If you don't like our Laws, go live somewhere like Iran where you can institute your theocracy!
Rachel Bjorklund "Marxist" is not only a pejorative slur the way your side has misused it, but it's also false and deceitful. No one is calling for a Marxist state, no one is advancing Communism. The Left is demanding a return to the days of Capitalism-WITH-Morality. Funny, and sad, it is, that so called "Christians" don't see that. You must be the "mammon-worshiping" type?
First, it is unconstitutional for the government to restrict ANY organization's 1st Amendment rights in exchange for tax exempt status. The IRS knows this, which is why, in the 58 years that the Johnson Amendment has been in place to censor churches, they have not taken a single pastor or church to court for violating it – they know they would easily lose. Your side seeks to restrict unalienable rights, such as free speech. That is tyranny.
Secondly, one does not have to institute full-blown communism to apply harmful Marxist economic theories in public policy, such as using the state as an instrument of plunder to redistribute wealth. In the scriptures, this is known as "theft." Christians are called to be generous with their OWN resources, not resources stolen from their neighbors. If a person promotes and supports unscriptural Marxist economic principles, it is not a pejorative to call a spade a spade.
It is those who seek to steal from their neighbors by majority vote who are worshiping mammon and allowing envy and greed to guide their actions. Those who respect property rights and promote private charity instead of government theft are the true followers of Christ's example and teachings. They promote liberty, not theocracy. It is the Left who seeks to put the state in the place of God in people's lives, restricting liberty and promoting tyranny.
Biblical Economics: A Commonsense Guide to Our Daily Bread
http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Economics-Commonsense-Guide-Daily/dp/1607021501/
Prosperity and Poverty: The Compassionate Use of Resources in a World of Scarcity
http://www.amazon.com/Prosperity-Poverty-Compassionate-Resources-Scarcity/dp/1579108083/
Money, Greed, and God: Why Capitalism Is the Solution and Not the Problem
http://www.amazon.com/Money-Greed-God-Capitalism-Solution/dp/0061900575/
Rachel Bjorklund HAHA, you make it too easy to refute your ignorance. ",…in the 58 years that the Johnson Amendment has been in place to censor churches, they have not taken a single pastor or church to court for violating it – they know they would easily lose"
WRONG! I know this is popular myth among the Religiously Nutty, but here ya go–the proof;
http://www.wnd.com/2000/05/4497/ "Yesterday, a federal appeals court upheld the Internal Revenue Service’s decision to revoke the tax-exempt status of a church that had paid for newspaper ads against then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992. The revocation is the first in the history of the IRS and serves as a warning from the federal judiciary that churches may not fund partisan activity. U.S. law granting tax-exempt status also forbids tax-exempt organizations from involvement in “any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.” "——— Now don't attack me for pointing out that this is just plain old history. Consider yourself schooled on the subject.
Here's some more that you might want to read; what a "house of worship" is permitted to do, and not do, in an election:
http://www.au.org/resources/publications/religion-partisan-politics-and-tax-exemption
Secondly, I find your "arguments" in support of –well, let's just call it what it is now– GREED, to be PROFOUNDLY perverted and, frankly, OBSCENE–but no surprise there, as you have obviously drawn your corrupt understanding of the nature of today's shamefully UN-Christian Capitalism-without-Morality from pseudo-religious snake-oil salesmen like Jay W, Richards, whom–one could only assume?–has undertaken the colossally-hypocritical effort of trying to turn what is the very essence of "Jesus"–to "sell all you have and come follow me"–into some kind of convenient and personally-ameliorating rallying cry for the Greedy who find some latent, smug conceit for having been "blessed" by "God's favor" in their heartless exploitation of the working class and the Poor. I can only hold my nose when the stench of one of you economic apologists offer your perverted lack of responsibility to the nation and your neighbors whom sustain both you and your businesses, and whom constitute your "market", indeed. Sorry, but for an intelligent person, one does not need to starkly juxtapose Capitalism against something as extreme and opposite-end as Communism or Marxism to realize and recognize the undeniably corrupt nature of this "uber-Capitalist" society in which the Rich have succeeded in rigging and manipulating the system to benefit themselves at the expense of the entire nation. The blindness which afflicts you can only be voluntary.
I stand corrected on the recent court decision. However, the law is still a violation of the 1st Amendment, and will be found so if appealed to the Supreme Court. Churches have been tax exempt from the founding, long before there was an IRS or 501c3. Activist judges don't change that.
Secondly, thank you for providing such a prime example of the smug intolerance of Marxists who seek to justify stealing from those they envy, and call it "compassion," while simultaneously supporting the censorship of those you disagree with. You present a false either/or choice: Socialism, or complete abandonment and exploitation of the poor. You refuse to recognize any alternative that doesn't fit within your Marxist agenda. Your comment is so full of straw men arguments and ad hominem attacks, it doesn't even justify further response.
Thank you for being big enough to stand corrected, Rachel. However, the article itself states that a higher court upheld the decision. You can fantasize all you want about the SC knocking it down, but here it is, 2012, and the decision stood, DIDN'T IT? Pretty much tells you who's got the First Amendment right–and wrong.
Oh the irony—calling ME a "marxist" and beating to death that ragged horse you call "intolerance" concerning your self-absolving rhetoric where you merge your conceit with a carefully-groomed persecution complex. That's so easy to just dismiss and blow off those good, hard-working Middle Class Americans who DON'T fit into the term "Poor", and yet who have seen their jobs flee offshore to slave-labor countries, and seen their salaries drop year after year after year. Wanna know why I'm so vitriolic, Rachel? It's because of morally cowardly, and hypocritical people like you who defend what is essentially societal robbery on a vast, huge scale by the ones who have the disposable money to buy politicians and the policies which tilt all the economic opportunities to them! Yet you have the gall to self-righteously infer yourself as being somehow "more worthy" than those whom you would disparage by pejoratively writing them off as "envious"! People like you and the blackness of your soul are what are destroying this nation from the inside out.
After surveying the comments on this article, it's clear that you, Zizzer Zazzer, are a troll with nothing better to do than create fake online identities to harass anybody who disagrees with your ideology and force them to waste their time and energy on pointless arguments that aren't going to change anyone's mind. Time for you to get a life and practice some of that "tolerance" liberals love to brag about but rarely demonstrate.
This "Christian" university seems to be overly concerned with political correctness. They, no doubt, are a very liberal crowd adverse to truth being strongly portrayed. Just imagine what their reaction would be to "Sinners in the hands of an angry God"!
This "Christian" university seems to be overly concerned with political correctness. They, no doubt, are a very liberal crowd adverse to truth being strongly portrayed. Just imagine what their reaction would be to "Sinners in the hands of an angry God"!
I'm sorry, I am a student at APU and your comment reflects nothing accurate of the university. They happen to be an amazing and extremely christ-centered university that welcomes and promotes living out the transformative and salvific love of Jesus in every aspect of ones life, yes, even including politics.
You have got to be kidding! If we don't stand up.. no one will!
It's about time a Christian institution took a stand against these insidious ideological trojan horses for Social Darwinism. We've got a long way to go to root out all Randianism in the church.
Biblical economics is not "Randianism."
Biblical Economics: A Commonsense Guide to Our Daily Bread
http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Economics-Commonsense-Guide-Daily/dp/1607021501/
Prosperity and Poverty: The Compassionate Use of Resources in a World of Scarcity
http://www.amazon.com/Prosperity-Poverty-Compassionate-Resources-Scarcity/dp/1579108083/
Money, Greed, and God: Why Capitalism Is the Solution and Not the Problem
http://www.amazon.com/Money-Greed-God-Capitalism-Solution/dp/0061900575/
Like I said. Thank you Rachel for demonstrating the point.
You have got to be kidding! If we don't stand up.. no one will!
Shame on APU! Shame!
As a parent who has sent two of my children to Azusa Pacific and spent thousands of dollars at this institution, I am DEEPLY disappointed to see this university behave like every other public university in our country. APU, you have sold yourself out and instead of keeping in step with your school motto of putting "God First," you most resemble "Culture First" in this instance and others I have heard about from my kids and their friends. Shame on you! Parents looking for a true conservative university for their son or daughter better take note. Do more homework than we did and see if there are any truly conservative universities left!
They are few and far between, nowadays. I myself am a student at a Catholic university and matriculated there with the idea that the university was orthodox to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I have found their commitment to the Church's teachings sketchy in many areas. The Mass in the university chapel has devolved into a highly irreverent atmosphere, and the priests are apathetic when it comes to restoring the reverence that is justly due at Mass. Worse yet, they have explicitly violated the teachings of their own Church by providing "preventive health insurance" (contraceptives and abortifacients) to faculty as part of their benefits. This was brought to light to the general public only a few months ago despite the practice being in place for years now, and only because of the Church's objection to the Obama Administration's HHS Mandate.
When I say "worse yet, they" I am referring to the university, not the priests.
Catholic schools are huge on "social justice" as is Obama. The Pope still adovcates UNIONS, a dislike of capitalism and of course Mary worship which is totally unbiblical. I know MORE Catholic that support Obama than nonCatholics. Abortion didn't turn them off in 2008.
Thanks for the results of your poll, Nancy. Sounds about as skewed as the ones in the MSM.
i took the time to look at the apu clubs and organizations. they have young conservatives and students for life clubs. sounds conservative to me. each club requires faculty and staff involvement, which takes time and money. it's impossible to allow every club to be an official university organization.
i also read their statement of faith, which may enlighten this discussion. honestly, i cannot see how such a student club fits with their mission, values, core beliefs, and essence statement.
As a student at APU, I would like to point out that APU specifically promotes itself as a liberal Christian university. If you thought it was a conservative one, then with all due respect, you should have done more homework before sending two of your kids there. Because we have a highly diverse group of students (a large majority not claiming to be Christians) I think it is important that the university doesn't allow clubs that are overtly against others. In the same way that a LGBT club wouldn't be allowed because it is against the school's beliefs, having a political club that tampers with it isn't okay either.
Nancy Law that is true. Its about time people thought of their country before their party.
Jim Warner " they have explicitly violated the teachings of their own Church by providing "preventive health insurance" (contraceptives and abortifacients) to faculty as part of their benefits."—-a new study just PROVED what should be common sense to anyone; religious or not: providing contraception to women SIGNIFICANTLY decreases the incidence of abortions.
http://www.care2.com/causes/study-confirms-obamacares-birth-control-mandate-could-reduce-abortion-rate.html
Hello Nancy,
I am sorry but your post is not based on facts.
I am a traditional Catholic and I can tell you for a fact that Catholics do not worship Mary. We VENERATE Mary. There is a huge difference. We remember and honor Mary just like we would a family member that has passed on or a person we hold in very high regard. We do not worship her at all. We only worship God and God alone. Most people hold their own mothers in a place of honor, but do not worship them. Wouldn't Jesus want his own mother to be remembered and honored?
Secondly, the majority of Catholics I know are totally opposed to Obama! All of my friends are hardcore conservatives. Where I live we have Freedom Rallies in which the majority of the people who show up are Catholics and other Christian denominations. In fact, I know only very few Catholics who do support Obama.
Secondly, when you say Catholic schools are huge on "social justice" as is Obama, you need to recognize that those which are true to the Catholic teachings and faith are not. Please take a look at the Newman Guide for Catholic colleges. You will find that those that are the most Catholic are those that are very conservative.Catholic colleges that seem to be more liberal have veered away or misinterpreted the teachings of the Catholic Church, and are in most cases cafeteria Catholics not traditional Catholics.
God Bless!
Angie
Hello Nancy,
I am sorry but your post is not based on facts.
I am a traditional Catholic and I can tell you for a fact that Catholics do not worship Mary. We VENERATE Mary. There is a huge difference. We remember and honor Mary just like we would a family member that has passed on or a person we hold in very high regard. We do not worship her at all. We only worship God and God alone. Most people hold their own mothers in a place of honor, but do not worship them. Wouldn't Jesus want his own mother to be remembered and honored?
Secondly, the majority of Catholics I know are totally opposed to Obama! All of my friends are hardcore conservatives. Where I live we have Freedom Rallies in which the majority of the people who show up are Catholics and other Christian denominations. In fact, I know only very few Catholics who do support Obama.
Secondly, when you say Catholic schools are huge on "social justice" as is Obama, you need to recognize that those which are true to the Catholic teachings and faith are not. Please take a look at the Newman Guide for Catholic colleges. You will find that those that are the most Catholic are those that are very conservative.Catholic colleges that seem to be more liberal have veered away or misinterpreted the teachings of the Catholic Church, and are in most cases cafeteria Catholics not traditional Catholics.
God Bless!
Angie
Nancy, You know nothing about Catholicism. The Pope is pro capitalism, we do not worship Mary (this proves your absolute ignorance about Catholicism, by the way), and thinking, faithful Catholics do not support Obama.
Ary Michele,
I appreciate your reply. It motivated me to look at what APU says about itself in their mission statement, statement of essence, and other statements. In the example below, you will see why I disagree with your point of how the school "promotes itself as a liberal Christian university." If you read many of their other statements, you will see how a parent could come to the conclusion that this university truly is a conservative place and unlike so many of the other universities who claim to be but are not. Additionally, I am not only basing my current conclusion on the YAF group being denied, but on the many instances of my own kid's stories of what happens regularly in the class. There is bias and a leaning toward the influence of the culture; this is observed in teaching style as well as curriculum.
We honor and uphold the following distinctives:
the exercise of grace in every situation
evangelization of the lost
transformational work of the Holy Spirit
reconciliation and relief of human hurt
unity in diversity
service on behalf of the poor and disenfranchised
teaching of every discipline in every class from a Christian worldview
discipleship of believers
celebration of spiritual gifts
an affirmation of both men and women in all leadership at all levels of the Church
bringing social justice/action to society
sanctity and protection of human life from conception to the grave
understanding that marriage is between one man and one woman
upholding celibacy outside of marriage and fidelity within the marriage covenant
modeling transformational Christian community
responsible stewardship of creation
efficacy of prayer in every situation
Nancy Law, please do attempt to learn more about the Catholic faith before you speak about something that has no resemblance to the Catholic faith but label it "Catholic". Angela and David are correct. To say that Catholics worship Mary is simply a profession of ignorance. We give Mary the honor that is justly due to the person who is Jesus' mother. She is held in high regard for being an admirable disciple who leads us to her Son. She has exemplified the best of what motherhood is, and as Catholics we strive to follow in her path to Christ. Because Jesus is fully human and fully divine, and these two natures of Him are inseparable (these are dogmas dating back centuries), Mary is rightfully called the Mother of God. Nothing I have said, however, makes Mary a deity. Mary is human, not divine. That some people believe that Catholics view her as a deity is a result of ignorance and only ignorance. Ask any bishop, priest, deacon, brother, nun, or practicing lay Catholic and they will reaffirm what I have said.
Also incorrect is your accusation that the Church "dislikes capitalism." Quite the contrary. Blessed Pope John Paul II was a staunch supporter of civil democracy. The Catholic Church fought for the end of Communism throughout the Cold War. Read about Blessed Aloysius Cardinal Stepinac for an example of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac
Finally, the Catholics that you mention must not be practicing Catholics. The vast majority of practicing Catholics recognize that Obama upholds principles that are irreconcilable to Church teaching. It is not possible to support Obama without denying some of the most fundamental teachings of the Church, especially teachings on human dignity and life. There are many people out there who call themselves Catholic but haven't attended a Mass in years.
What are you guys even arguing on this specific thread?? Heheh. Doesn't make sense. The rest of you are now arguing about Catholicism and "Suzy" thinks APU is "liberal." HHHHhhhhh…If only ONE of you actually attended the school. (Excluding Ary Michele of course).
Nancy Law I would have to agree that the Poop favors Capitalism—hell, if he didn't, he wouldn't have been involved in the murder of Pope John Paul 1 for trying to clean up–and clean out–the Vatican Bank in the 80s. This bank made money laundering money for the mob, among other illegal and illicit activities. Poor John Paul I; a genuine man of integrity who was too "straight" for the "Holy See".
Do you think Jesus' actions, decisions and statements would have ruffled some conservative Pharisee feathers? Well he was killed for them and still Christianity happened. Big picture, APU encouraged growth instead of single-mindedness. If that means a few conservatives can't complete their own agendas so be it. People searching for knowledge will still want to be apart of its community.
Christian is not an appropriate term for Azuza Pacific. Christian implies "following Christ".
Jesus Christ did not mince his words. Azuza Pacific is nothing but a bunch of mincers who will not allow those who refuse to mince their words on their campus.
Shameful!
Christian is not an appropriate term for Azuza Pacific. Christian implies "following Christ".
Jesus Christ did not mince his words. Azuza Pacific is nothing but a bunch of mincers who will not allow those who refuse to mince their words on their campus.
Shameful!
How dare you. Seriously, how dare you. I've been a part of that community for 7 years. First as a student, then as a graduate student, and then as staff. I know literally 100's of people from the APU community, and they are beautiful, brave, god-fearing, intelligent, wise, discerning, good-natured, loving, merciful, and faithful people.
You really should be ashamed of this post.
Furthermore, they are also experience brokenness, sadness, hurt, overwhelmedness, worry, insecurities, confusion, and pain.
These people experience the full range of what it means to be human. They love, and they get hurt. They try their earnest, and they sometimes fail. But you disregard the entire community. Literally 10,000's of people that you have completely disregarded. You pay them no more mind than you would extend to an ant under your heel as you walk to your car. This makes me terribly sad.
Christian is not an appropriate term for Azuza Pacific. Christian implies "following Christ".
Jesus Christ did not mince his words. Azuza Pacific is nothing but a bunch of mincers who will not allow those who refuse to mince their words on their campus.
Shameful!
Jesus said, "In this world, there will be trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world!" We seem to think Jesus was this weak, meek, unity-maker. But no! Jesus came and brought salvation and truth to the world….and that truth tore through the core of society at that time. Jesus was not a people-pleaser….He was and is a truth-bearer! Take heed, world….your time is short!
What a bunch of crybabies who demand special treatment for their club.
It's a private college… if you don't like the rules and want special treatment, go somewhere else.
What a bunch of crybabies who demand special treatment for their club.
It's a private college… if you don't like the rules and want special treatment, go somewhere else.
So, you're a Christian too?
So, you're a Christian too?
I would go some where else.
No, if it is private college, the alumni of that school have EVERY right to decide whether they are going to continue making donations to an institution that is so blatantly abrogates their student's First Amendment rights to free speech and free assembly.
Brenda, when you are expecting Christian values, you would expect better from this type of institution that claims to promote Conservatism and open speech. If you haven't noticed, school is astronomically expensive, so it's not quite so easy to just pick up and leave like you're at Mcdonalds or something. These students took a great deal of their time to choose an institution like this, and all for them to be disappointed…now they could be potentially spending $80k at a college that doesn't support their ideas or beliefs…they were mislead…having a difference in opinion doesn't mean they hate.
You totally miss the underlying issue and premise. As says, Edmond Burke, ""The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Dr. Kathleen Barlow
Mike and Kathleen, I have to take issue with your claim that APU does not support student's ideas or beliefs. The only non-supportive stance APU has taken in this arena is with an organization that uses incendiary and hate-infused language to describe those who have agendas or values wildly different from their own. There are MANY ways to address wrongdoings and the evils of society without lobbing fiery cannonballs at wide swaths of people groups in the process. The conservative and Christ-centered voice within the university is quite strong. I would suggest perhaps attending a chapel service or Bible course before levying such judgmental tones on a community of brothers and sisters in Christ.
This sounds like a school that keeps turning cheeks in the face of social and political threats that would attempt to silence the Christian voice. It's time for schools like this to grow some balls and have some backbone for crying out loud. Being silent and not wanting to speak out in this highly politically charged environment where threats exist will do this school no good, and to ban this club based on inane excuses is very foolish and does no one any favors.
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
I agree with Dave. I am also sick not standing up for what is right, especially if they profess to be a Christian. I hope the students get Jay Seklow to represent them and sue the school!
I will take Azusa Pacific off my list of possible Christian Colleges for my children. Remember…"Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything". Azusa is obviously falling for the political correctness debacle.
I will take Azusa Pacific off my list of possible Christian Colleges for my children. Remember…"Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything". Azusa is obviously falling for the political correctness debacle.
Erwin Lutzer: “We think it is better to tolerate error than to look ugly defending the truth.”
Sounds like the Christian University is a Christian Zionist / Pro Israel school and anything that deals with real freedom and liberty as opposed to their Judeo Christian Communism is considered offensive. I suggest the YAF people to just drop out of that college and come out of Babylon, for soon it will be no more..
Based upon the comments below, I am fairly certain that very few would recognize Jesus if he walked among us today as the Lamb (when he actually returns he will come as the Lion, what I mean is if he was here now for the first time).
He would not be a "Mitt Romney" nor would he likely be a Romney fan (wouldn't be in the Obama camp either but that's for another time).
Nope, Jesus would be a "hippie." a social justice promoting, flip flop wearing, long haired, love love love your neighbor hippie.
None of this "riches for the righteous" BS (Jesus was one of the poorest mofos around, both before and after he gathered the disciples) and none of this "One man voted for by his peers is infallible and dictates to the church" BS, only Jesus was God and ONLY God is infallible.
Nope, most conservative, religious, "I'm going to heaven and you are not" folks wouldn't know Jesus if he walked right up to them and introduced himself to them.
Azusa Pacific did nothing wrong by telling this student organization that they could not rename themselves and become associated with YAF. APU has a CONSERVATIVE club and a PROGRESSIVE club (i.e. they have a club that reflects both sides of the political spectrum) what they do not have and what APU has never had is an environment of divisiveness. Jesus did not tell people to take up their swords, he told them to turn the other cheek. Jesus preached love and peace. He DID NOT, I repeat DID NOT preach aggression. He would never stand behind calling a teacher, one in authority, a "Marxist" for the purpose of name calling…he wouldn't stand for name calling.
You all might want to read Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Bible regarding Matthew 5:39-44 as an example the fact that Jesus was quite darn clear that keeping the peace and loving thy neighbor was NOT a JOKE!
How about the liberals start a club against RIGHT WINGERS. They can start off the charter by calling every person that is left of them Nazis, bigots, racists, and fascists. Ironically that is what you right wingers have become, only a few steps shy but never mind the truth its irrelevant to you. Starting a club like that is about the same as your idiotic and psychotic rants about Marxists/Communist professors in your YAF manifesto. So go pound sand… you are what you hate in others.
I seriously doubt that any organization which feels compelled to include phrases such as "Islamo-fascist" in its promotional materials has any place in an institution of learning.
Kudos to the University
A liberal is a person who defends the right of opposing opinions to be heard, and is then shocked and offended to find that there are, in fact, opposing opinions.
A liberal is a person who defends the right of opposing opinions to be heard, and is then shocked and offended to find that there are, in fact, opposing opinions.
Do you have any reason whatsoever for believing that these people lack any place in an institution of learning other than that you disagree with them? Generally the idea of an institution of learning is that you don't get to bar people from it because you disagree with them.
Do you have any reason whatsoever for believing that these people lack any place in an institution of learning other than that you disagree with them? Generally the idea of an institution of learning is that you don't get to bar people from it because you disagree with them.
Colleges, particularly of the Liberal Arts ilk, are indeed the place for divergent opinions to be expressed.
However, descending to the lowest denominator by resorting to pithy Limbaughisms such as Islamo-fascist indicates a degree of intellectual dishonesty that is of, in my opinion at least, of little merit in a college setting.
There are plenty of outlets for ignorance on both sides of the ideological divide in the media at large. Let's keep the discussion on campus civil and as free as possible from preconceived, all too easy to swallow, bigotry, regardless of its target.
I found the university's defense of its reasoning pretty sound. It's already made itself sound like a Christian, conservative-minded place. It really was baffled anyone would *need* a YAF chapter. It sounds like "Are you tired of liberal ideas dominating your campus? Are you tired of liberal and Marxist professors indoctrinating your classmates? Do you want to advance conservatism?" is not a question really pertinent to the campus in question. And it is one student only who complained.
And now there's no niceness. The student complained to BreitBart.com. I could cast aspersions that this is some Evangelical home-schooled child with no respect for others outside their clique, therefore thinking that all "liberals" are all "radical feminists, big government bureaucrats, fringe environmentalists, race-baiters, Islamo-fascists, and run of the mill leftists" (which seriously, what run-of-the-mill strawmen are left once all those are named?), but why bother? The origin is immaterial. The school's policy is partisan-neutral, although it does allow both conservative and progressive clubs. A student just felt that conservative wasn't "enough."
We can't just allow all sides of an argument. Sides must reach a certain bar to be respected, whether this bar is intelligence, honesty, or just mere civility. With a promotional mission statement like YAF's, I don't see a whole lot of intelligent discourse (emphasis on discourse) being possible.
The only divide in media outlets is that all of them have liberal agendas aside from FOX news and choose to only report issues that have little substance and ignore the magnificent job this boob of a president is doing.
Scott Pearson Stewart So you're saying that because you don't agree with Rush Limbaugh then the group should be banned? Are you saying that Islamo fascists don't exist? Meaning Islamic extremist don't exist? Have you not been watching the news? Or reading your history? If this is a true Christian institution, they would have known that the Bible is not about "unity", it is about division. Jesus said he is here as a sword, not to bring peace, but for us to follow Him…(this actually is not to bring about violence, but for us to reject ourselves and follow Christ) This is not a Christian institution, or else it never would have said those things. This institution is blasphemous, and my son will never go there.
Scott Pearson Stewart Islamo-fascists do exist, and are a very real threat to out freedoms. Pretending they don't exist (like you liberals do) will not make them go away. It will, in fact, make them stronger.
First, let me address Mr. Tansey's question of whether I had a "reason whatsoever" for stating that YAF has a place on a college campus.
Plenty of 'em….here are a couple…
When you invoke terms like "Islamo-fascist" you have already removed the conversation from one based on reason, to one based on emotion. This is a charged term. Suppose an organization has sought a place on campus by stating that they "Sought to promote the ambitions and goals of Jesus-Haters everywhere"? I doubt that such an organization would have found any more favor than YAF. What if, instead, YAF had stated something like "It is our contention that radical Islamic elements are antagonistic towards the tenets of Christianity and the ideals of the Constitution." Ok, now we're getting somewhere. We have an hypothesis, not a talking point laden with emotion. I would defend the right of such an organization to be represented on campus.
Secondly, when you state that, "A liberal is a person who defends the right of opposing opinions to be heard, and is then shocked and offended to find that there are, in fact, opposing opinions." you have not made an argument, but rather a generalization fallacy. I could say that "conservatives are afraid of opposing opinions" and stand on no more authority than you. The same can be said for most of the respondents on this thread. Liberals=Intolerance, am I right? There's plenty of intolerance to go around, folks. It is hardly the province of liberals or conservatives.
As for whether I agree with Rush Limbaugh, that is irrelevant to the discussion. He, like Bill Maher on the other side of the coin, is an entertainer. It's their business to fire up the audience. I listen to them both on occasion, but don't rely on them (or any single source – right or left) to form my opinion.
Yes, Jeff, radical Islamic factions exist. So do hydrogen atoms, cute little puppies and fundamentalist Christians. I think anyone who has taken the time to explore beyond the walls of Fox News, MSNBC, The Weekly Standard, Mother Jones, etc. knows this. It is when we take in ALL of these points of view, along with others I have not named, that we are better able to form an opinion. They all have value when taken, not in isolation, but as part of a information banquet. Trouble is, and, yes, I'm generalizing here, most people seem to take their cues from one source and make those their mantra.
I suppose you do not belive we were attacked by Islamo-fascists, and are not expending billions to fight them.
and apparently you are the ignorant personified. Scott get a job and get off the internet
and apparently you are the ignorant personified. Scott get a job and get off the internet
Don't bother, Mr. Stewart. It's clear no one is interested in dialogue or read past your initial post. Otherwise they'd be directing some ire at me, too. Well, unless Mr. Tansey chimes back in. He can hold his own.
Fish in a barrel, Mr. Ellerd. Fish in a barrel….with the exception of Mr. Tansey, who as we know, can deliver a solid argument.
Vickie's post upthread indicates that there may be some truth in my earlier facetiously made generalization that "conservatives are afraid of opposing opinions". Apparently in her world anyone who would disagree with her is 1) unemployed and 2) not fit to air an opinion on the Internet.
Ms. Van Dyken, I can assure you that I have been rather gainfully employed since high school (many moons ago) and as for getting off the Internet, well, I can't do that very easily since it falls within my job description to a certain extent. I'm dreadfully sorry if my worldview falls outside of your apparently narrow parameters.
Scott Pearson Stewart
Your use of the English language is amazing.. What have yo got against the term Islamo-fascist? Would have them called angels in wolves clothing? Really! — The schools argument is ridiculous on the face of it. Promote liberalism ans Islamo-fascism and deny views that do not drip with the honey of hypocracy . Pete Maniscalco — sail2pete@gmail.com
If this is the school's policy, then we as Christian parents better look elsewhere for salt and light – APU wants to go the way of Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, – all were once "Christian" schools. Then prayer and revival is what's needed here. Otherwise… Kings College, Patrick Henry, Wheaton here we come! I would not recommend our young people to APU. I repeat – SHAME ON APU!
What is APU?
george fox!
APU – Azusa Pacific University. "Evangelical Christian School"? Yeah, right!
"I don't mind knife fights, so long as they don't come from behind."
Great quote from Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli.
It's bad enough battling our surrounding culture, but when knives come from supposedly our own lines, that really stinks.
Andy Tso, with all due respect, you really are speaking out of profound ignorance. I am grateful for Matthew 18:15-17, in which Jesus calls us to go to a sister or brother who we think is sinning and check it out directly. If you slander, malign, and gossip with false testimony about your sisters and brothers at APU without finding out the whole story, then the one who is not acting like a Christian is not APU but just "U."
Andy, you could not be more misguided. As a current student at APU, studying political science, I can assure you, that as a christian parent, it would be hard for you to find a better Christian university to send your children. Firstly, as far as campus politics go, the political science department, as well as other university clubs at APU do a fantastic job of preparing and teaching their students, as well as other non political science majors, about politics and current issues, from BOTH sides. They hold meetings outside of class/lecture time to educate students about issues. Especially around this time of year during the elections, they have gone out of their way to set up discussions about candidates, as well as about other pressing issues. It's not one sided. It's not strictly liberal. The discussions are that, discussions, to learn and debate about both sides. Number two. Are you really saying that APU is lacking salt and light? How dare you. Do you know how involved APU is in the surrounding and international community? We have partners and ministries around the world where APU sends its students to BE the salt and the light. I personally have been able to take part in this. This summer, I spent 6 weeks leading a missions to Tamale Ghana to minister to orphans and students, and evangelize. Are you really saying that me and my team, as representatives of the university, are not being salt and light? What about the other 26 teams that went on similar trips. Or the 40 this summer? Or the thousands of people and students who spend two weeks in the Mexico desert serving the Mexicali community? Are we salt and light? You need to educate yourself before you go and make uncalled for comments about my university.
If Todd Starnes' article is stating the facts, and if APU has indeed banned the conservative club, then my statements stands. Kay need not invoke Matt 18, nor are all the good things Abby listed need be at issue. If the article falsely presented the incident, then address the author and publisher. If Todd Starnes' article and facts are correct, and it seems to be in order, then the real problem is the school. Should APU change their policy and permit the conservative club, many following this posting will welcome that as a step in the right direction.
Andy, the club still exists. It just wasn't able to change its name because APU didn't want to provide funding to a club that is a chapter of such a polarized special interest group.
Thank you for the info. Much appreciated. Yes, that's some good new to know. But to follow Kay's advice, need that also be verified? But assuming its the case, its welcomed news.
This is so sad and unfortunate. Liberal professors really are taking over college campuses. I attend Chapman university and nearly every professor I have had has in some way or another pushed their liberal views on the class. This is unfortunate because many freshman come in not knowing what they believe, and they assume that because professors are typically intelligent people, their opinions must always be correct. However, this is not the case, and college students do not get both sides.
its funny how nearly every professor in the world is a "liberal"
maybe theyre just smart enough not to buy into fox news hahah
its funny how nearly every professor in the world is a "liberal"
maybe theyre just smart enough not to buy into fox news hahah
I dont know about everyone, I know about the ones at Chapman
I dont know about everyone, I know about the ones at Chapman
alot of them are. its a tradition that started in the 60s. liberal teachers are more passionate about open mindedness. open minds = undecidedness. undecidedness = changing your major halfway through your coursework. its just another part in a system designed to keep kids in school for 10 or so years. colleges are businesses.
alot of them are. its a tradition that started in the 60s. liberal teachers are more passionate about open mindedness. open minds = undecidedness. undecidedness = changing your major halfway through your coursework. its just another part in a system designed to keep kids in school for 10 or so years. colleges are businesses.
True, and unfortunate.
True, and unfortunate.
thats not the ony reason though, conservative professors teach alot of things that goes against individuals belief systems. its about being PC. but we have to remember that government PC isnt the same as social PC. Gov PC is invasive to personal freedoms.
thats not the ony reason though, conservative professors teach alot of things that goes against individuals belief systems. its about being PC. but we have to remember that government PC isnt the same as social PC. Gov PC is invasive to personal freedoms.
Eh. PC. Something my family and I laugh, cry and throw up over.. k maybe not throw but, but being too PC is too much for me.
it all stems from whether or not we should infuse religion into politics…and likewise into "conservatism." i dont think we should as christians.
“Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2).
thats just 2 examples of why we shouldnt bother with politics unless we hope to help people in the process.
im a republican at heart but i cant as a christian support the gop, for the moment anyways. im not going to let my gov take money and bright futures away from the poor just so 10 people can become even richer than they are…
yes the liberal cater to non believers, i understand that…but being a christian is about doing just that. were not supposed to glorify riches and wealth(or add to it), were supposed to give it away and tell those we give it to that it comes from god, not "hard work."
yeah but Stan why shouldnt someone be able to keep what they work for? It isnt up to the government to decide who is a good Christian, if they truly are, they will donate and do good things for people. Forcing someone to give away their income to people less fortunate isnt the work of God
My Grandma made a joke that was actually really sad this week, she said "well if i am going to do i should do it before next year to avoid the death tax" The government should have no say in where my grandmothers money goes. Its horrible.
if a millionaire doesnt create jobs, then they are greedy. period. if they are greedy they should be punished and ridiculed or in this case, taxed. romney wants to tax poor people but leave billionaires alone…how is that right? how is it acceptable to encourage greed? how is it ok to use deception to gain support? unlike obama, he wants to tax true job creators(60k-250k). how is that ok? obama has lowered taxes on small business(250k below) and consolidated small business loan opportunities. this is what government should do…not lie and say they want to save jobs when in fact their policy will destroy entire communities.
this isnt about you and me sam, this is about a few handfuls of people(rich, mega rich, super mega rich, etc) in this country not paying taxes. is your grandma super rich? is she retired? why should this even matter to her?
our country is crumbling because these people dont want to pay taxes…yet they want to live here and enjoy the security of being american…well freedom isnt free. even welfare recipients get taxed 15 percent, how can a millionaire like romney ony get taxed 11, i mean 14%…because he donates to a church? how is that ok?
Stanley, where are you getting these BIZARRE Federal income tax figures? Millionaires like Obama and Romney pay much higher rates! According to CBO [dot] gov/publication/21938
[Trends in Federal Tax Revenues and Rates|December 2, 2010|Testimony before the Committee on Finance, United States Senate]:
"In 2007, households in the bottom fifth, or quintile, of the income distribution (with average income of $18,400, under a broad definition of income) paid about 4 percent of their income in federal taxes, while the middle quintile, with average income of $64,500, paid 14 percent, and the highest quintile, with average income of $264,700, paid 25 percent.
… households in the highest quintile earned 55 percent of before-tax income and paid almost 70 percent of federal taxes"
Try basing your comments on reality – what w/tax credits and the like, 47% of the US adult population pays NO Federal Income tax at all, not that false 15% figure you quoted.
Stanley Craig Perry, you do understand the difference between a capital gains tax and a regular income tax, right? A regular income tax for Mitt Romney was already paid on that money and was likely more around 30% or even higher. He then paid 10% of that money to his church. THEN he reinvested those SAME dollars and received a return on that money from his investments, and pays 15% of THAT money AGAIN to the federal government as a capital gains tax. Plus pays another 10% of that money to his church and another 20% to other charities.
So Mitt Romney is paying way more in taxes than you or I pay, and he didn't even take all the tax breaks he could have the second time the same dollars came back to him.
uhm katie, youre wrong…i mean your replyis false…please look up the "carried interest" exemption.
his "income" is treated as a "capital gain"
Stanley Craig Perry liberal teachers are more about open minded. What a load of bull!
connie im guessing you've never finished your education.
You're funny, or at least you must think so! btw I did, but at my age I don't remember most of it. Sorry if I made you mad.
Also, all four of my children went to college. I would like to think that sometimes common sense means something also.
I know you guys have moved on to a new subject but to answer why my grandma should care stan, when she dies, starting this new year, he estate tax will take 50% of everything away. That is why I care… Obama does not have a right to let that happen
Also stan stop talking down to people and acting so superior.. just because people dont agree with you doesnt mean you and your views are better. I thought liberals were supposed to be so loving and accepting.
Haha for the millionth time im not a liberal. im just good at recognizing ignorance.
And please go read up on the estate tax before you start blaming Obama.
More specifically it's history
It's California what do you expect from a state with an education system that is ranked 47th out of 50.. Stupid is as Obama does….
It's California what do you expect from a state with an education system that is ranked 47th out of 50.. Stupid is as Obama does….
How about the liberals start a club against RIGHT WINGERS. They can start off the charter by calling every person that is right of them Nazis, bigots, racists, and fascists. Ironically that is what you extreme right wingers have become; only a few steps shy, but never mind the truth its irrelevant to you. Starting a club like that is about the same as your idiotic and psychotic rants about Marxists/Communist professors in your YAF manifesto. So go pound sand… you are what you hate in others.
How about the liberals start a club against RIGHT WINGERS. They can start off the charter by calling every person that is right of them Nazis, bigots, racists, and fascists. Ironically that is what you extreme right wingers are fast becoming like; only a few steps shy, but never mind the truth its irrelevant to you. Starting a club like that is about the same as your idiotic and psychotic rants about Marxists/Communist professors in your YAF manifesto. So just to be clear for those who are thick headed… you right wingers are what you hate in others.
I appreciate the effort of administrators to make APU a place that is safe for all viewpoints! (conservative, progressive, radical feminists…) Go APU for keeping Christ Centered
When Jesus said to be the light and salt of the world, He did not mean bath salts. The administration is not liberal or conservative. The school acted in favor of a community that is not pitted against each other.
The Admin took exception to the critic on "liberal" profs.
What ever happened to questioning authority?
This University is in California what do you expect, they`re sell outs like most Christians nowadays.
Christian today means say one thing but do another.
Too true, too true, Mike. That totally "hits home." Let's get more salty.
Someone need to tell them the liberal problem is coming to THEM, whether they like it or not. In the
For all those reading this article….you all don't go to this university which is an amazing awesome CHRISTIAN university…please re-read what this Club's statement is and please tell me how that is CHRISTIAN….I have great professors who are not liberal and even if they are they let us think and decide on how we view things and Jesus sat and hung around sinners so why wouldn't a Christian, Chirst following school do the same, everyone has a right to Christ, so please all you who commented and are condeming (which you have no right to do) my school, please do your research and see the amazing things that this school is doing! Thank You
For all those reading this article….you all don't go to this university which is an amazing awesome CHRISTIAN university…please re-read what this Club's statement is and please tell me how that is CHRISTIAN….I have great professors who are not liberal and even if they are they let us think and decide on how we view things and Jesus sat and hung around sinners so why wouldn't a Christian, Chirst following school do the same, everyone has a right to Christ, so please all you who commented and are condeming (which you have no right to do) my school, please do your research and see the amazing things that this school is doing! Thank You
As a student of APU, I entirely commend my university for its decision on this matter. We strive to be Christ-centered, and being Christ-centered does not mean using hateful slurs such as "Islamo-facist" and "Marxist". As the university has stated, they have no issue with the conservative views, but rather in the way that it was worded.
Props to you, APU, I am proud to be one of your students.
As a student of APU, I entirely commend my university for its decision on this matter. We strive to be Christ-centered, and being Christ-centered does not mean using hateful slurs such as "Islamo-facist" and "Marxist". As the university has stated, they have no issue with the conservative views, but rather in the way that it was worded.
Props to you, APU, I am proud to be one of your students.
Then according to your example, you must believe that Jesus was using "hateful slurs" when he referred to the Scribes, and Pharisee's as: "Hypocrites, blind guides, serpents, a generation of vipers, and whited sepulchers, clean on the outside, but full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness". I can only imagine what the liberals of today would have thought of the things that Jesus said. No doubt he would have been accused of being intolerant, and hateful, to say the least.
No, that's actually completely different. He didn't use words of political dissent to make theological points.
In contrast, Jesus would have been a friend of the Muslim, who in our society is marginalized, much like he was a friend to non-Jews.
He would tell those who sin to go and sin no more.
I believe he would even confront the conservative, much like he did to the Pharisees, and call them hypocrites and slaves to the law.
Good decision. Sounds like an extremist group, even if it is in the name of Christianity.
It seems Azusa Pacific doesn't even realize how radically liberal they are, being politically correct and refusing to address the radical liberalism in their own midst. I will pray for their leadership to turn away from radical feminism and Marxism they apparently support. Students have other choices for college and there are many that do not discriminate against conservative views that are deeply evangelical and genuinely Christian. Students and parents take note. "Evangelical" and "Christian" are being used by universities that do not support traditional, orthodox values.
It seems Azusa Pacific doesn't even realize how radically liberal they are, being politically correct and refusing to address the radical liberalism in their own midst. I will pray for their leadership to turn away from radical feminism and Marxism they apparently support. Students have other choices for college and there are many that do not discriminate against conservative views that are deeply evangelical and genuinely Christian. Students and parents take note. "Evangelical" and "Christian" are being used by universities that do not support traditional, orthodox values.
The name of the Lord is a strong tower; The righteous run to it and are safe. Proverbs 18:10 Preach the word in season and out of season. Lord, give us a hunger for righteous. Save our generation. Set us free from false teaching, lead us truth and we will praise your name. Thank you Jesus.
"“The (website) seemed to be intentionally pitched to students who are facing a hostile learning environment,” she said. “That’s not what we have at Azusa Pacific.”"….Then they go and prove otherwise….You gotta love it!
I see nothing wrong with this:
“Are you tired of liberal ideas dominating your campus? Are you tired of liberal and Marxist professors indoctrinating your classmates? Do you want to advance conservatism?"
THAT IS what is going on at ALL college/university campuses. I suppose they just don't want YOU to believe it is happening at THEIR college. THAT makes THEM look bad and they don't want that. After all the mantra of MOST "Christian" university/colleges is not only do we tolerate the "sin" we EMBRACE and ADVOCATE the "sin". Truth doesn't matter to these "Christian" colleges/universities. It is MORE important for them to CONFORM to the world rather than TRANSFORM it.
I see nothing wrong with this:
“Are you tired of liberal ideas dominating your campus? Are you tired of liberal and Marxist professors indoctrinating your classmates? Do you want to advance conservatism?"
THAT IS what is going on at ALL college/university campuses. I suppose they just don't want YOU to believe it is happening at THEIR college. THAT makes THEM look bad and they don't want that. After all the mantra of MOST "Christian" university/colleges is not only do we tolerate the "sin" we EMBRACE and ADVOCATE the "sin". Truth doesn't matter to these "Christian" colleges/universities. It is MORE important for them to CONFORM to the world rather than TRANSFORM it.
Once that assistant dean used the word "diversity", I knew right away what she was. There is obviously nothing Christian about that university, or at least the assistant dean and that turp who found the language for YAF "troubling". The students just need to tell them to piss off and do it any why!
Once that assistant dean used the word "diversity", I knew right away what she was. There is obviously nothing Christian about that university, or at least the assistant dean and that turp who found the language for YAF "troubling". The students just need to tell them to piss off and do it any why!
Here's a place to send this college FEEDBACK.
http://www.apu.edu/webservices/feedback/
I did!
Thank's Nancy! I thanked them for doing the right thing and told them I am proud of the way they protected the student population!
Islamo-fascists is a pretty good description of the people who are DEMANDING sharia law in our country!
The school calls itself Christian, but what does it allow and promote within its campus? Why does it fear a strong Christ centered position? Why does it hire and advance liberal professors that will gladly promote a worldly view of matters when it comes to moral, ethic, and academic standards. It may call itself a Christian school, but where is Christ in all of it?
Tom, your post is so chocker-block full of inaccuracies and, frankly, ignorance (the true form of the word, not trying to be insulting), it is hard to imagine you could fit all that in just three sentences… Please do tell where you learned these facts?