Apr 11, 2012
Print This Post
Eleven religious groups at Vanderbilt University have submitted applications for official recognition that do not conform to the university’s new nondiscrimination policy – a move that could result in the groups being forced off campus.
FOLLOW TODD ON FACEBOOK. CLICK HERE!
The student religious groups have formed an organization called “Vanderbilt Solidarity.” They said they could not in good faith alter their constitutions to comply with the university’s new policy.
Vanderbilt’s new nondiscrimination policy requires all groups, including religious groups, to accept members of different sexual orientations or faiths and allows them to seek leadership roles.
As a result of the change, Vanderbilt reviewed the constitutions of every registered student organization to make sure they were in compliance with the policy after a dispute between the university and a Christian fraternity that expelled a homosexual member.
Student groups now have a choice – they can either revise their membership requirements or they will not be recognized as an official student group. That means the groups will not receive funding and they will not be allowed on campus.
However, the groups represented by Vanderbilt Solidarity have submitted their applications without making any changes to their constitutions – an act of defiance said spokesman Pieter Valk.
“We don’t want to cause trouble,” Valk told Fox News. “We want to make it clear where we are coming from. We want to be back on campus next year but there are certain principles we cannot move from.”
Valk, 21, from Kingsport, TN, accused Vanderbilt of persecuting Christian students.
“I don’t want to say the administration is intentionally persecuting Christians or they have some kind of an agenda to persecute Christians,” he said. “I want to believe that that’s not true. But I know there’s persecution. We’re being told ‘you have a belief but we don’t value it and we are removing you from campus because of that belief.’ And that’s what I call persecution.”
University spokesperson Beth Fortune told Fox News that they are in the process of reviewing all applications and that includes those of the eleven defiant religious organizations.
“We will see that process to its end,” Fortune said, refusing to say what would happen to the groups.
“We’ve been clear,” she said. “We do require registered student organizations to comply with our nondiscrimination policy.”
Father John Sims Baker, the chaplain of Vanderbilt Catholic, said the university’s policy has in effect turned Christian students into second class citizens.
“The discriminatory non-discrimination policy at Vanderbilt University has forced our hand,” Baker said in a statement. “Our purpose has always been to share the Gospel and proudly proclaim our Catholic faith. What other reason could there be for a Catholic organization at Vanderbilt? How can we say it is not important that a Catholic lead a Catholic organization?”
Vanderbilt Catholic announced they would be leaving the campus rather than revise its constitution. The St. Thomas More Society has indicated they will do the same.
Vanderbilt Solidarity includes the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Asian American Christian Fellowship, Cru, Medical Christian Fellowship, Navigators, Graduate Christian Fellowship, Bridges International, Lutheran Student Fellowship, Every Nation Ministries, Beta Upsilon Chi, and Christian Legal Society.
Valk, who is a student leader of Navigators, predicted that Vanderbilt would lose a majority of their Christian organizations if they follow through on the nondiscrimination policy.
“There’s a fear with a lot of us that this is just the beginning at private universities across the nation,” he said. “This is going to begin a wave of silencing Christ’s voice across the nation in private universities.”
“They’ve made it clear in public and private meetings that they value nondiscrimination,” he said. “They value certain core beliefs over my religious convictions, over my ability to associate around ideas of faith and that is very concerning and that hurts me.”
Fortune denied that the university is treating Christians as second-class citizens. She noted that the policy has been imposed on all student groups – not just Christian groups.
“Vanderbilt is a welcoming place of religious groups of all kinds,” she said. “We’ve worked very closely with all groups to answer questions and work through issues that they might have with the nondiscrimination policy.”
But Justin Gunter, the president of Vanderbilt’s Christian Legal Society disagreed and said they designed a policy that limits the rights of a religious group to choose their leaders.
“They honestly believe that a Christian group requiring its leaders to be Christian is malicious discrimination,” Gunter said. “They’ve even compared that to racial segregation. In their minds, this is something evil that needs to be removed from campus.”
Gunter called it insulting.
“It’s extremely insulting to be compared to something as detestable as a segregationist just for upholding your beliefs,” he said.
Fortune said, “Our nondiscrimination policy does not single out religious organizations.”
Related posts:
FOX News Talk
This is sad and insulting…
Quote: Fortune said, “Our nondiscrimination policy does not single out religious organizations.” But it does Ms Fortune. If religious groups do not hold your beliefs, then they are singled out! Who are truly the biggots here?
Pretty simple answer, religious fanatics are the "true bigots". The logical response to a requirement for nondiscrimination is to not discriminate, instead these organizations will fight to the death to exclude who ever they want to exclude.
so the university is being a biggot for not allowing student groups to be biggots?
Sean Brooks : I guess WW2 was nothing but a discriminatory anti-Nazi smear campaign. Those poor Nazis should have been able to discriminate against everyone else. Their "beliefs" told them that they were superior, so what right did we have to tell them they were wrong? Yep, we should always let the bigots continue doing whatever they want to do.
Sean Brooks Actually yes they are. Because the 1st amendment, according to the Supreme court of the US, protects not only speach that you may like, but also speach that you may hate. It really doesnt matter if you think or are calling Christians "biggots" because according to the law, they have the right to say what they want to say and make an organization lead by those who are leading that organization.
In a recent SCOTUS decision (9 to 0), even the liberals stated that religious institutions have the right to decide who their leaders are. Hosanna-Tabor v. EEOC (2012)
They have had similar rulings with students in public schools.
Sean Richardson . i think you missed the point of my post. i admit the question mark at the end kind of threw it off a little bit
Jacob Weber i dont think the 1st amendment means what you think it means. It protects speech from government intrusion and censorship. This story is about a private college not allowing student groups on campus who discriminate. Certainly you would agree that a private organization has the right to regulate speech on its own property.
So then where is your outrage at the recent story of a Christian school firing their volleyball coach, an acclaimed teacher, for getting pregnant out of wedlock? If you claim it is their right to do so because they are a private institution, then you need to back off this Vanderbilt thing as well. Both are private institutions with a right to enforce their own rules, no matter how discriminatory they are.
Sean Brooks If they accept even one dollar in student aid or other money from the govt, then they are going to have to follow the 1st amendment. Simple as that.
Jacob Weber , No they dont. It is a private organzation, whether the accept funds from the government or not. The boy scouts have proven that. They receive federal and state funds but are allowed to exclude homosexuals from their ranks.
Just because you receive federal funds doesn't mean you lose the right to regulate your organization.
This is all about freedom of speech. Don't let the policy fool you.
John Carter HOW IS IT ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH? Please explain to me how your right to free speech crosses over someone elses (ie Vanderbilt)
What happened to religious freedom? No matter if they are a Christian, Islamic, Jewish, or Hindu organization, they shouldn't be forced to do anything that is against their faith. It is un-American. Good for the students standing up for this.
No one is being forced to vote for someone they don't want to vote for, they are just being required not to discriminate as to who might run for the office. I would have thought a woman would understand the distinction.
Our nation is secular; therefore, it is not run by religion. You can practice whatever religion you want, but if your religion does not abide by the laws and rules set forth by the government, then the religious group must be shut down. I presume that you want America to be ruled by the Holy Bible, and not by the Constitution? That sounds very similar to Iran, as well as all of the other Islamic nations in the world, but America is not ruled by God, because there's not one shred of evidence that a god even exists.
The Constitution allows you to practice whatever religion you want, but it clearly does not favor one religion from another. How is this un-American? There are laws set in place which do not allow a group to be discriminated against, and that's exactly what these religious bigots are doing. They are discriminating against homosexuals, and it's incredibly bigoted.
Self-righteous christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world, and most do not abide by the bible anyway. The bible states to obey the laws of the land, and this religious group is clearly defying the law by not obeying the campus's rules.
Our nation is secular; therefore, it is not run by religion. You can practice whatever religion you want, but if your religion does not abide by the laws and rules set forth by the government, then the religious group must be shut down. I presume that you want America to be ruled by the Holy Bible, and not by the Constitution? That sounds very similar to Iran, as well as all of the other Islamic nations in the world, but America is not ruled by God, because there's not one shred of evidence that a god even exists.
The Constitution allows you to practice whatever religion you want, but it clearly does not favor one religion from another. How is this un-American? There are laws set in place which do not allow a group to be discriminated against, and that's exactly what these religious bigots are doing. They are discriminating against homosexuals, and it's incredibly bigoted.
Self-righteous christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world, and most do not abide by the bible anyway. The bible states to obey the laws of the land, and this religious group is clearly defying the law by not obeying the campus's rules.
Eddie Palacios Let me say I'm not trying to argue religion here. Or force my own beliefs onto anyone.
I'm just going to quote the constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I need no argument but the first amendment in the bill of rights, because this is "prohibiting the free exercise" of religious groups running their organizations.
Eddie Palacios Let me say I'm not trying to argue religion here. Or force my own beliefs onto anyone.
I'm just going to quote the constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I need no argument but the first amendment in the bill of rights, because this is "prohibiting the free exercise" of religious groups running their organizations.
About homosexuality, personally, I don't think there should be discrimination against that by any means. But again, I have to admit Religious groups should be able to allow in who they choose. As someone commented below, "Are men allowed to join the sororities and live in their houses." Because you could say that sororities are discriminating based on gender, but no one is forcing them to change that.
Vanderbilt is not congress.
Autumn Rose The reason why the campus's policy is constitution is because it prevents groups being discriminated against. Christians love discriminating against homosexuals, but they have their heads so far up their butts that they don't realize that there are homosexual christians in this world who believe the same god as you.
The religious groups are discriminating against homosexuals, and THAT is what is truly un-American. There have been clauses added to the law which strictly prohibits the discrimination against any group, whether the group is homosexuals, christians, race, gender, etc.
Therefore, the policy is Constitutional, and it will remain. The Christians are the discriminative bigots here, NOT the university.
Autumn Rose Wow, all of a sudden Mr. Palacios has no response. Logic and truth stumps them every time.
Thank you Kevin,
Clearly Eddie has a problem with Christians and he is letting his emotions cloud reason. His only argument is to bash them, and I am not here to bash any group of people. I have stated what the constitution says, and that I have NO problem with homosexuals having the same rights as everyone else. This has nothing to do with these being Christian groups. It is about the fact that they are a religious group being prohibited of their free exercise to practice what they believe. That is both unconstitutional and un-American Eddie. Sorry my argument stands firm.
Kevin Marler Give me a chance, old man. Geez!
Michael Woodall's comment below doesn't make the first lick of sense. It's quite clear that sororities and fraternities are gender-based, and those groups have no beef with it. It's not discriminating against genders, and religion is also not involved. It's quite clear that religion discriminates against homosexuals and other religions, and that's why the policy will stand.
Kevin, let me ask you something, since you believe that you have all the answers to life: How can you state that truth stumps "them" (I'm assuming you're referring to me as a non-believer), but you believe in a god for which there is no evidence or "truth?" Furthermore, why do christians not believe the truth, which is the evidence for the big bang and evolution, as if fossil records, DNA, and galaxies moving away from one another aren't enough truth to prove creationism, as well as the entire Book of Genesis, to be a crock of crap?!
Christians are the ones who cannot handle the truth, because, once again, if it's not in the good book, then it must not be true. Christians are the true truth deniers, and you're incredibly ignorant. Do you truly believe that God would be so childish as to create temptation (Tree of Knowledge), knowing that it will creat sin (He's omniscient, so He would've known that), and then sent Himself to die for the sins for which He was responsible?
Like I've previously mentioned, you're a religious bigot, and you're completely ignorant to the truth. You tell me that truth stumps me, but you deny the truth of the big bang and evolution. I guess, sometimes, wisdom doesn't come with age. What I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot!
Autumn Rose Your argument stands firm only to you and the old man. My argument stands firm that christians are discriminative bigots, and you and Pastor Kevin Marler are self-righteous christians. Case in point.
Good day!
Eddie Palacios We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.
There is no earthly, secular or scientific standard that can support such a claim.
We as a nation declare and defend a Christian principle in spite of every earthly measure.
Who do you think the founding fathers meant by Creator?
Eddie Palacios We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.
There is no earthly, secular or scientific standard that can support such a claim.
We as a nation declare and defend a Christian principle in spite of every earthly measure.
Who do you think the founding fathers meant by Creator?
Brian Barkley It doesn't matter. There was no evidence for the big bang or evolution back in those days, and times have changed. However, read the constitution and you will see that our Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution so that our government would be secular, because they knew that there are too many religions, as well as interpretations of those religions' bibles, to create non-discriminative laws.
How are you so certain that there is a god when there's not one shred of evidence, and when all scientific evidence points to evolution as a fact?! I'm just curious.
Also, how can you be so sure that God's not actually Allah or Zeus, and how can you be so sure that there's only one god? Hindu believes in many gods, so can you prove that your god, bible, and religion are true and all others are false when there's not one shred of evidence to support the theory of a god existing who created the universe? You can't, and that's why you have to have what is known as faith: believing with proof or evidence!
Would you like to continue? If so, then please provide another unintelligent comment for me to criticize.
*without proof or evidence!
Eddie Palacios This nation was founded upon the Declaration of Independence. The Articles of Confederation was our nations first instruction manual for our bureaucracy. We replaced that manual with the Constitution. If we were to convene another constitutional convention and draft a new document to replace the Constitution, it to would have to conform to the requirements of the Declaration of Independence as both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution had to.
Brian Barkley Actually, the founding fathers were deists. They believed in some form of god or creator, but not specifically a Christian one – and that's exactly why the language of the Constitution in regards to a spiritual being are so vague. Surely if they wanted to be very specific and stipulate a national religion they could easily have done so. They didn't, instead they opted for verbiage that was neither inclusive nor exclusive of any specific religion.
Alex McEnroe Walker being a deist was a scam. To work for the British you had to be Anglican or allowances were made for nonpracticing deists. Ben Franklin was such a good deist that he got his son a governorship and still had a seat of honor at every church in his home town as well as churches from the Caribbean to Paris. They were scrupulously careful to avoid any chance for an establishment of a national religion.
Autumn Rose While I do believe Eddie has let his emotions cloud rational discussion, that's not to say that he doesn't have a point, just that he's poorly articulating it. His point, and that of many people who interpret the first amendment differently is that in this case, the policy in question doesn't specifically target the religious groups with its language, nor does it affect them nearly as much as the students are claiming. The policy is not telling the students they can't practice Catholicism or Christianity, nor is it restricting their ability to do so in any way. To forbid the exclusion of individuals is not the same as restricting another's ability to practice their chosen religion. This is where Eddie's point about Jesus instructing his disciples to follow the law of the land comes from, and yes, it probably has a lot to do with the idea of religious freedom that our founding fathers so desired. The two go hand in hand: the law should never restrict religious freedom, but as Christ intended, Christianity should never become such an imposing force that the practice of it goes against laws set up to protect the common good. I think history has shown that non-discrimination regulations are always in the best interest of society's advancement.
Which raises another question…
How tightly can the group truly be adhering to a mission of "spread the gospel" if they're averse to having non-Christians in the group? Who are they trying to spread the gospel to? Much of this conflict arises from the individual perceptions of what the true objective of Christianity is. As liberals are wont to point out when countering points that Christianity forbids homosexuality: Jesus himself never said anything about the subject. Of course, since the Catholic group is taking its instruction from the Vatican, it's the overarching instruction that matters most (and the opinions of St. Paul) that seems to matter most, and not the issue of whether there's a genuinely Christ-like backing to the notion.
On a more practical front, okay, so they can no longer discriminate according to religion or sexual leaning, but assuming their leaders are chosen by voting – whose to say that would ever actually be an issue? The idea that admitting non-Christians or homosexual students to the organizations in question would inevitably lead to one of them leading the organization is an alarmist approach to the issue.
Brian Barkley I'm okay with calling it a scam, that's fine – because I think we're in agreement. Even if they were Anglican, the reason their language remained vague was to avoid the establishment of a national religion. So even if in saying "creator" they thought to themselves 'God' or 'Jesus', they didn't want that for the country as a whole. They wanted that freedom of choice, and for the most part, I think we're better for it.
Eddie Palacios see my answer to atheism below. My friend, I have no ill feeling towards you. I was atheist till age 36! I decided that Just In Case there is a "game of life", I want to be on the "winning team", and the tickets are totally free! Obviously too detailed a topic to explain to you here. I suggest you educate yourself and read the bible, and whatever evolution research you want. How did the first "life form" become and what made it alive? Even a single cell is extremely complex machinery that behaves with distinct purpose and precision, so theory has to start before that, probably at the RNA/DNA level, which is also an extremely complex molecule that has never just popped up out of nowhere or even formed incrementally. The Big Bang? God created it himself: "In the beginning God created the heavens and Earth… darkness was upon the face of the deep (the universe)…and God said let there be light (big bang)… . Its just a 2000 yr old language so you have to think of it in its original context. Also, all 3 laws of physics, laws of wind and ocean currents, the hydrologic cycle, radio communication, astronomy, and more are all IN THE BIBLE, long before modern man discovered them. Many are in the book of Job, oddly enough. ("Scientific Facts in the Bible", by Ray Comfort), The bible is the most amazing book ever written! You are missing out on so much, Eddie. Give it a try.
Eddie Palacios see my answer to atheism below. My friend, I have no ill feeling towards you. I was atheist till age 36! I decided that Just In Case there is a "game of life", I want to be on the "winning team", and the tickets are totally free! Obviously too detailed a topic to explain to you here. I suggest you educate yourself and read the bible, and whatever evolution research you want. How did the first "life form" become and what made it alive? Even a single cell is extremely complex machinery that behaves with distinct purpose and precision, so theory has to start before that, probably at the RNA/DNA level, which is also an extremely complex molecule that has never just popped up out of nowhere or even formed incrementally. The Big Bang? God created it himself: "In the beginning God created the heavens and Earth… darkness was upon the face of the deep (the universe)…and God said let there be light (big bang)… . Its just a 2000 yr old language so you have to think of it in its original context. Also, all 3 laws of physics, laws of wind and ocean currents, the hydrologic cycle, radio communication, astronomy, and more are all IN THE BIBLE, long before modern man discovered them. Many are in the book of Job, oddly enough. ("Scientific Facts in the Bible", by Ray Comfort), The bible is the most amazing book ever written! You are missing out on so much, Eddie. Give it a try.
Autumn Rose Thanks for posting. I'm just trying to spread the light and life here, especially those who are in the dark like I was years ago. I have also learned much on here from intelligent and expert people's comments.
Autumn Rose Thanks for posting. I'm just trying to spread the light and life here, especially those who are in the dark like I was years ago. I have also learned much on here from intelligent and expert people's comments.
@Eddie Palacios; "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction."<Sir Isaac Newton. According to physics the Universe wasn't born out of nothing. It stands to reason that there was a chain of events. What caused this chain of events? Maybe an earlier chain of events started that particular chain of events. What caused that? This could go on forever. Wait a minute…did I just say infinite? Infinity isn't supposed to exist. Just giving you something to think about.
@Eddie Palacios; "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction."<Sir Isaac Newton. According to physics the Universe wasn't born out of nothing. It stands to reason that there was a chain of events. What caused this chain of events? Maybe an earlier chain of events started that particular chain of events. What caused that? This could go on forever. Wait a minute…did I just say infinite? Infinity isn't supposed to exist. Just giving you something to think about.
Kevin Marler I am 29, and I spent about 24 years of my life believing in God. While I still believe in God – most definitely due to the fact that the fear of an eternal Hell awaited me if I didn't believe was instilled into my mind at such an early age – I don't believe there's any evidence for God. That's why the bible says to have "faith," which is believing without proof or evidence.
I've read much of the bible, so I'm not being biased here. It was only when I began watching educational television and taking college courses that I learned of the evidence regarding the big bang and evolution.
Light could not have been created during the big bang, because the only source of light throughout the universe is from stars. We know for a fact that stars weren't created in the big bang, but they were created over millions of years within interstellar dust clouds, which comprise of many atoms which make up the elements. There is the conundrum.
Just because we haven't figured out what was the cause for the big bang or life doesn't mean that we should simply concede that there's a god who allows it all to be. That only impedes progress. If scientists had conceded that the universe and life were too complex to understand, and that the solution is that there's a god who did it all, we never would've made the incredible amount of progress we've already made thus far.
Kevin Marler I am 29, and I spent about 24 years of my life believing in God. While I still believe in God – most definitely due to the fact that the fear of an eternal Hell awaited me if I didn't believe was instilled into my mind at such an early age – I don't believe there's any evidence for God. That's why the bible says to have "faith," which is believing without proof or evidence.
I've read much of the bible, so I'm not being biased here. It was only when I began watching educational television and taking college courses that I learned of the evidence regarding the big bang and evolution.
Light could not have been created during the big bang, because the only source of light throughout the universe is from stars. We know for a fact that stars weren't created in the big bang, but they were created over millions of years within interstellar dust clouds, which comprise of many atoms which make up the elements. There is the conundrum.
Just because we haven't figured out what was the cause for the big bang or life doesn't mean that we should simply concede that there's a god who allows it all to be. That only impedes progress. If scientists had conceded that the universe and life were too complex to understand, and that the solution is that there's a god who did it all, we never would've made the incredible amount of progress we've already made thus far.
Eden Stanton The error is to assume the universe was born out of anything. And what do you mean infinity isn't supposed to exist? It's a mathematical certainty that it does (see every asymptote and their use in explaining cosmic occurrences). The crux of supposing that there must be a still, free-standing entity or event at the start of all existence and time (thus creating it) represents where science and religion typically cease to see eye-to-eye in casual debate. However, what if it was the universe that has always been, but in a perpetual state of flux? The only true perpetual motion that can ever be known, because it's the only system that can ever call upon all of the energy ever created and needed to succeed. A formation forever expanding and contracting. As it contracts, all of the energy that ever was and will be condenses smaller and smaller until finally the sheer energy can no longer be contained and it explodes (in a big bang if you will). Upon exploding, the universe stretches on and on until finally reaching the end of its seemingly infinite (or asymptotic) energy and it begins to contract again. On and on. It never had anyone to kickstart it or stop it, for it has always been, because without it time does not exist by the very definition of time, matter, and space.
Eden Stanton The error is to assume the universe was born out of anything. And what do you mean infinity isn't supposed to exist? It's a mathematical certainty that it does (see every asymptote and their use in explaining cosmic occurrences). The crux of supposing that there must be a still, free-standing entity or event at the start of all existence and time (thus creating it) represents where science and religion typically cease to see eye-to-eye in casual debate. However, what if it was the universe that has always been, but in a perpetual state of flux? The only true perpetual motion that can ever be known, because it's the only system that can ever call upon all of the energy ever created and needed to succeed. A formation forever expanding and contracting. As it contracts, all of the energy that ever was and will be condenses smaller and smaller until finally the sheer energy can no longer be contained and it explodes (in a big bang if you will). Upon exploding, the universe stretches on and on until finally reaching the end of its seemingly infinite (or asymptotic) energy and it begins to contract again. On and on. It never had anyone to kickstart it or stop it, for it has always been, because without it time does not exist by the very definition of time, matter, and space.
Alex McEnroe Walker Vanderbilt seems to disagree with you.
Alex McEnroe Walker Vanderbilt seems to disagree with you.
Brian Barkley My apologies, to which statement were you referring? (The Facebook comment system unfortunately makes it easy to see a response but hard to tell to which comment it refers.)
Brian Barkley My apologies, to which statement were you referring? (The Facebook comment system unfortunately makes it easy to see a response but hard to tell to which comment it refers.)
Eden Stanton Are you implying that since we don't yet know what was the cause of the effect that we must believe that a god allowed it to happen? That's naive, so I hope that's not what you're implying.
According to Astronomy, time and space didn't even exist before the big bang, so I don't know from where you're receiving your physics lesson. Watch the History Channel's "History of the Universe in Two Hours," and it will explain to you the big bang.
Eddie Palacios Perhaps your expectations of faith are the problem. Start simple. If in fact you are certain you have a Soul then isn't it a logical assumption that so do all the other people around you and for all time? Do you wish to spend all eternity in the company of people you have loved and helped or people you have ignored or shit on? It seems practical to assume that if you wish to thank your Creator the best gift you can give him is to help him make this gift he has given to others the best gift it can be. If you are grateful for your life, wouldn't it be an excellent gift to your Creator to produce an additional vessel for him to fill with another Soul?
Our nation is founded upon the assumption that all men have a Soul and that each individual citizen is responsible for the salvation of his Soul. Without that constraint our government would be free to give or withdraw our rights at will.
@Eddie Palacios; I'm simply saying that it makes no difference how far mankind can trace back the events that started life as we know it we are always going to end with the same conclusion. One action to start the process.
@Alex McEnroe Walker; Scientifically the idea of anything lasting forever or being infinite in our reality is a direct contradiction to the way the Universe functions.
Eddie Palacios the "shut down" of religious groups from campus is no different in "exclusion" than the right Vanderbilt is exercising. Don't get me wrong, they have every right to do this but do not for one second think that what the religious organizations HERE (I say here because I am here and have a firsthand view of what is happening) at Vandy are in any way not abiding by the Constitution.
Eden Stanton Not so: "An object in motion will stayl in motion until acted upon by an outside force" – scientifically, that's a call for infinity. If you throw a ball in space, barring any interference by another body, it will continue on forever; infinitely. With that said, the theory I suggested doesn't necessarily function within the confines of infinity, because infinity requires a measure of time, a variable that ceases to exist at the moment of 100% energy condensation (just before exploding and expanding once again). Technically, the system both does and doesn't exist infinitely, because there is a moment–technically an eternity as time ceases to exist–when the system resets.
I'm ok with calling it a scam
Eddie Palacios HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION IN THE SIGHT OF GOD BUT IN YOUR CASE I WISH YOUR PARENTS HAD BEEN HOMOSEXUALS. IF YOU HAD NEVER BEEN BORNED YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO HELL.
Eddie Palacios HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION IN THE SIGHT OF GOD BUT IN YOUR CASE I WISH YOUR PARENTS HAD BEEN HOMOSEXUALS. IF YOU HAD NEVER BEEN BORNED YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO HELL.
Brian Barkley I don't think Vanderbilt would have a problem with it, because, and rightfully so, the overall message they took from the resulting verbiage was the freedom to practice their religion without letting that practice obscure the common good of the society as a whole. Rules against exclusion based on race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. are inherently a benefit for the common good – and technically do not limit the practice of Christianity. I think fellow commenter Kevin Marler framed the best outcome for Vanderbilt in a comment below, but I'll summarize it: Religion-based student orgs (or any others) may no longer be allowed to forbid entry to someone based on their religious or sexual leaning that may be contrary to the religion, but if they show up only to cause trouble and stir up contention then the group would be well within their rights to ask the person to leave on those grounds. (End of his proposal). However, if a person of another faith or of a sexuality that their religion doesn't approve of showed up and wanted to join your Christian organization – what better instance to practice their inherently Christ-like mission of showing them love and discussing with them the love of the Lord? Either way it's really a diplomatic win-win for both the organizations and the college.
Brian Barkley I don't think Vanderbilt would have a problem with it, because, and rightfully so, the overall message they took from the resulting verbiage was the freedom to practice their religion without letting that practice obscure the common good of the society as a whole. Rules against exclusion based on race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. are inherently a benefit for the common good – and technically do not limit the practice of Christianity. I think fellow commenter Kevin Marler framed the best outcome for Vanderbilt in a comment below, but I'll summarize it: Religion-based student orgs (or any others) may no longer be allowed to forbid entry to someone based on their religious or sexual leaning that may be contrary to the religion, but if they show up only to cause trouble and stir up contention then the group would be well within their rights to ask the person to leave on those grounds. (End of his proposal). However, if a person of another faith or of a sexuality that their religion doesn't approve of showed up and wanted to join your Christian organization – what better instance to practice their inherently Christ-like mission of showing them love and discussing with them the love of the Lord? Either way it's really a diplomatic win-win for both the organizations and the college.
William Wilson That's an immature and irrational expression of an opinion, and it adds nothing to the mostly civil discussion occurring so far.
William Wilson That's an immature and irrational expression of an opinion, and it adds nothing to the mostly civil discussion occurring so far.
Eddie Palacios – Actually the Constitution imposes restraints upon the government. The intent of the framers of the Constitution was to restrain the government from imposing upon the liberties of the people, to include the free exercise of religion. The Constitution imposes no restraints upon religion, nor the peoples' right to freely practice their religion. Your take that religions are required to abide by the laws and rules of government is completely antithetical to the Constitution and the intent of the framers.
William Wilson Precisely why I hate religion, and precisely why I cannot wait for the older generations that you belong to to die already. I'm tired of the hateful vitriol spewing from the mouth of a purported christian such as yourself.
How are you so certain that God exists? Does He speak to you? Do you have actual conversations with Him, where He actually speaks back to you? Have you seen Him? NO, YOU HAVEN'T! You haven't, because you must have faith to believe in what cannot be proven with evidence. SO STFU, YOU OLD BLABBERING FOOL!
William Wilson Precisely why I hate religion, and precisely why I cannot wait for the older generations that you belong to to die already. I'm tired of the hateful vitriol spewing from the mouth of a purported christian such as yourself.
How are you so certain that God exists? Does He speak to you? Do you have actual conversations with Him, where He actually speaks back to you? Have you seen Him? NO, YOU HAVEN'T! You haven't, because you must have faith to believe in what cannot be proven with evidence. SO STFU, YOU OLD BLABBERING FOOL!
William Haunsperger This case doesn't have so much to do with religion as it has to do with discrimination taking place. According to the Fourteenth Amendment, one, or a group, cannot be discriminated against. There are many clauses in the law to ensure that the Fourteenth Amendment is obeyed.
There is no problem with you practicing whatever religion that you choose, but when you use your religious teachings to discriminate, that's against the law, according to the abovementioned amendment and clauses. That's the very reason why Shariah Law will never become implemented into our justice system: because it discriminates against other religions, genders, races, etc.
William Haunsperger This case doesn't have so much to do with religion as it has to do with discrimination taking place. According to the Fourteenth Amendment, one, or a group, cannot be discriminated against. There are many clauses in the law to ensure that the Fourteenth Amendment is obeyed.
There is no problem with you practicing whatever religion that you choose, but when you use your religious teachings to discriminate, that's against the law, according to the abovementioned amendment and clauses. That's the very reason why Shariah Law will never become implemented into our justice system: because it discriminates against other religions, genders, races, etc.
Eddie Palacios So you would liken a college social club that is based on a common religion the students share to the government and their authority in religious matters? Really?? A wee bit of a drama queen don't you think? These student organizations have absolutely nothing to do with the gov't and it's role in religious matters.
Eddie Palacios So you would liken a college social club that is based on a common religion the students share to the government and their authority in religious matters? Really?? A wee bit of a drama queen don't you think? These student organizations have absolutely nothing to do with the gov't and it's role in religious matters.
Eddie Palacios IM sorry but some things in life are not fair, right, nor ethical. The courts have already said that organizations have the right to choose who their leaders are, even if you think its "discriminatory". If taken to court, this school would loose as there is already court presidence on "clubs and organizations and its choice of leadership."
There is nothing in the 14th amendment that says anything of the sort Shariah law is a political system, as well as a religion. Thats why its incompatible with our Judiah-christian based legal system. You are throwing your discrimatory, religious (yes athiesm is a religion) world view that is in itself discriminatory. There is some things in life that should be discriminated against because it hurts our society. Homosexuality is one of them. The 14th amendment was to deal with slavery, not every stupid "right" that you want to say the 14th instills. Equating religion to "hate" is just crazy, and hate talk by a minority group of people who want special treatment for their Anti-american and immoral conduct.
Alex McEnroe Walker When do you think the world's major religions will relent and admit that libidinous behavior is as valuable as people producing the next generation?
Brian Barkley I don't think it's religion's place to decide what kind of sexual behavior is correct. Keep in mind, the sexual mandates found in the bible were written by people either hoping to prolong the life of a nomadic people or attempting to spread a religion. In either case, the obvious advice to give is "procreate!" That's not the case anymore, and frankly Christ never suggested he wanted any part in our sex lives, so maybe we shouldn't expect him to tell us what to do?
Autumn Rose This is a PRIVATE organzation. This isn't the government telling religious groups what to do, this is a private business. They have every right now to allow discrimination on campus.
Autumn Rose Liberals tend to forget the second part of that sentence. Either way, this has very little to do with the Constitution or Federal, or even state government for that matter. Vanderbilt is a private institution which institutes its own policies. This anti-discrimination policy is ludicrous. Making membership open to all is perfectly fine, and I'm even alright with imposing this aspect on religious groups, but an exception should be made in the requirements for electing leaders leadership of religious groups.
And Eddie, if you really believe that the our nation was founded based upon an absolute separation of religion and state then you are ignorant about our history. Just think about our rights–If they come from the government or a document, then that means that they can be taken away by the government or whoever is in charge of the document that gives them to us. Our inalienable rights MUST come from a higher power, whether you believe that is God or something else is up to you. But you are wrong on every level of your assessment of this situation, and any other view is wholly incompatible with what our country is all about.
Autumn Rose, men and women are mutually exclusive. Being Christian and gay can be mutually inclusive. That's the difference.
Eddie Palacios, Yes America is a secular nation and you mention Islam. I see Islam getting a free liberal pass where christians are are called biggots or much , much worse by those who do not believe in Christ. I will say unequivically that liberals are Americas biggot class.
Linda Carter, tell me one right in America afforded Muslims but denied Christians?
This is what I call "standing up" go Vanderbilt Solidarity. Via con Dios.
Yep, we are in it folks. This is just the beginning of persecutions. Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil…"
Please! Christians have been persecuted against for centuries, and other religions have been persecuted against as well. The bible states that in the end times, followers of God will be persecuted, but do you not remember the Roman empire? They persecuted christians and jews to the likes in which the world has never seen, so please elaborate on the vague verse.
Oh waith, every verse in the bible is vague. The bible's verses are incredibly vague so that people can fill in the gaps with bs like your comment.
Eddie Palacios Actually, the Bible verses are very accurate in their statement. But, of course, if your mind is "closed," then anything to include the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and the list goes on and on to include the Civil Rights Act of 1964, is "vague" (your word).
Ron Bracy "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth." He did it all in 6 days, and He was so pooped (even though He's omnipotent), he "rested" on the 7th day. Another verse states that a day is "like" one thousand years to God, and one thousand years is "like" a day to God. Therefore, the bible is vague when stating how long it took Him to create the entire universe, as well as all life within it.
Evolution and science prove that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, but christians believe that the Earth is only 10,000 years old. The vagueness is there, but you're just not looking, because when you read the bible, your mind is already made up that it is all factual.
Eddie Palacios The fool has said in his heart there is no God
Eddie Palacios The fool has said in his heart there is no God
Eddie Palacios Actually, evolution and science have not "proved" anything about the age of the Earth. Evolution, as acknowledged by all "true" scientists is a "theory," not a "fact." And, science is based on observable events through the five senses (i.e., sight, smell, taste, hearing, and touch). And, of course, science is so very accurate: that is why publishers have to revise science books about every five years to "correct" information which scientists have discovered not to be true or incomplete. A couple of questions: (1) have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted "gravity." But, I would guess that you believe in gravity because of its effect. I guess we could test to see if gravity is real by stepping off a 10-story building. And, (2) have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted "electricity." Of course, you have seen its effect every time you turn on a light switch. But, I would guess that you would not picked up a "hot" electrical wire. And, of course, I could ask you a lot of similar questions, but I suspect that you already know where I am leading you. I remember a student once after being berated by a professor for a long time about his Christian beliefs, asked the professor and the listening class, if anyone could see, touch, taste, hear, or smell the professor's brain. Would you be surprised if I told you that the professor stood stunned when he recognized that the student had just used the professors' own anti-Christian arguments to invalid everything the professor had said. Oh, and the two verses you referred to in your first paragraph do not contradict each other. They are a form of literary analogy in which the writers state the same thing: God created everything including "time." In the Hebrew language there are not three words "in the beginning." There are only two words "in beginning" which simply states that God was the beginning of everything. And, actually God was not tired when He rested. The Hebrew word conveys the idea that God had completed His work of creation, and He acknowledged the "very goodness" of it. Oh, yes, the phrase "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day" is merely a statement that "time" is not a factor with God. You and I are temporal, and one day we will die, but God is eternal. Which leads to one question: where will you spend eternity after you die?
Eddie Palacios Actually, evolution and science have not "proved" anything about the age of the Earth. Evolution, as acknowledged by all "true" scientists is a "theory," not a "fact." And, science is based on observable events through the five senses (i.e., sight, smell, taste, hearing, and touch). And, of course, science is so very accurate: that is why publishers have to revise science books about every five years to "correct" information which scientists have discovered not to be true or incomplete. A couple of questions: (1) have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted "gravity." But, I would guess that you believe in gravity because of its effect. I guess we could test to see if gravity is real by stepping off a 10-story building. And, (2) have you ever seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted "electricity." Of course, you have seen its effect every time you turn on a light switch. But, I would guess that you would not picked up a "hot" electrical wire. And, of course, I could ask you a lot of similar questions, but I suspect that you already know where I am leading you. I remember a student once after being berated by a professor for a long time about his Christian beliefs, asked the professor and the listening class, if anyone could see, touch, taste, hear, or smell the professor's brain. Would you be surprised if I told you that the professor stood stunned when he recognized that the student had just used the professors' own anti-Christian arguments to invalid everything the professor had said. Oh, and the two verses you referred to in your first paragraph do not contradict each other. They are a form of literary analogy in which the writers state the same thing: God created everything including "time." In the Hebrew language there are not three words "in the beginning." There are only two words "in beginning" which simply states that God was the beginning of everything. And, actually God was not tired when He rested. The Hebrew word conveys the idea that God had completed His work of creation, and He acknowledged the "very goodness" of it. Oh, yes, the phrase "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day" is merely a statement that "time" is not a factor with God. You and I are temporal, and one day we will die, but God is eternal. Which leads to one question: where will you spend eternity after you die?
Mark Adams You can't convince me that your religion, bible, and god are true and that all others are false, and that a god even exists by reciting verses from a bible full of fallacy.
Mark Adams BTW, a fool is one who believes in something without any evidence or proof whatsoever. That's why you must have "faith," and the definition of faith is believing without proof or evidence. Therefore, I would say that YOU are the fool.
Eddie Palacios You are treating science like a religion. There is only one absolute in science and that is the temperature absolute zero. Evolution is a theory that replaced a previous theory and there are scientist all over the world working on theories to replace that. The point of science is that it is fluid and always striving to improve. Absolutes and unchanging concepts are the province of religions. Science may be useful but it is designed to answer purely physical question and doesn't help much when the question is "He's a dick, what do I do about it?"
Eddie Palacios Evolution has not proven anything past 23,000 years ago which is the half life of a radiological atom. This idea that you can gauge time by measuring decay rates is laughable. Of the 4 things you "must know" to do it, 3 of them are at best guesses, such as the beginning amount of radiation, and assuming that nothing contaminates the sample in the thousands of years that it was exposed to the environment.
Ultimately, it really doesnt matter, because there hasnt been a single link found in "evolution" either. You show me a valid "missing link" and ill give you every dollar i can. I know you wont because there hasnt ever been one found (all have plausable problems with the "assesment of its origin"). Scientists use a hell lot more faith in trying to determine these two subjects than what you accuse Christians of believing.
Eddie Palacios Evolution has not proven anything past 23,000 years ago which is the half life of a radiological atom. This idea that you can gauge time by measuring decay rates is laughable. Of the 4 things you "must know" to do it, 3 of them are at best guesses, such as the beginning amount of radiation, and assuming that nothing contaminates the sample in the thousands of years that it was exposed to the environment.
Ultimately, it really doesnt matter, because there hasnt been a single link found in "evolution" either. You show me a valid "missing link" and ill give you every dollar i can. I know you wont because there hasnt ever been one found (all have plausable problems with the "assesment of its origin"). Scientists use a hell lot more faith in trying to determine these two subjects than what you accuse Christians of believing.
Eddie Palacios a fool is someone that spouts off and tries to sound so astonishingly intelligent that they don't even realize they are invalidating their own argument. Science cannot prove theories, it can merely disprove or say that a theory has a high statistical probability. Science has never been able to disprove the existence of God. Have you ever considered the notion that maybe science and the bible are both correct? There is nothing in the bible that says exactly how God created earth or in what forms his creations began. Try not to be so bitter and maybe your points will be listened to instead of argued against.
Eddie Palacios , christians dont believe that. American Christians believe in that, but not the majority of christians. (catholic). they believe in evolution and the big bang .
Eddie Palacios the bible verse that you refer to is 2 Peter 3:8,9 which incidently, is preceeded by the verse that says "in the last days, scoffers will come scoffing after their own evil desires…". But anyway, the context of it is this: " But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
So, the "thousand years/one day" is in reference to God's loving patience toward us sinners>
Eddie Palacios, if you will read in Mark ch. 13, you will see that there is a time coming of persecutiion that is unequaled and never to be equaled again (Jesus' own words, check it out). At about that time, Jesus Christ returns in a splendid display of power and glory. These things have not happened yet but you can be absolutly sure, they will.
Ron Cochran Well that time has come for most every other religion in history, usually at the hands of Christianity. Seems about right that Christiianity will have its turn eventually. It's called Karma.
Eddie Palacios I'd like to see you create an entire universe in 6 days and not take a breather, Google an app called "scale of the universe 2" to get some perspective on what he did and so quickly at that and come back and say He didn't deserve a rest after that.
Are men allowed to join the Sororities and live in their houses?
Do Sororities believe that all men are so untrustworthy that they are not allowed to even enter the house?
Completely irrelevant! Sororities and fraternities are segregated for a reason, and it's because campuses want to give each gender their own group. How might you think that men and women living together would go over? Not too well, I believe.
In any event, your post has nothing to do with a group being discriminated against. You're trying to justify the religious group's discrimination against homosexuals, and that's why I am disgusted by the bigoted Christians of the world.
Religion is responsible for all of the worlds of the past! Religion is bigoted, discriminative, and dangerous. Wake up, old timer!
Eddie Palacios It's sad that you do not know history. People like you who say things like this are the ones who are bigoted and dangerous. The first amendment means something. I'm sure that you'd rather it be scrapped but it will take a bit more than your hatred of religion to change it.
Mike Pittman How is my history off? Religion was responsible for the crusades, the holocaust, and now, terrorism. Would you care to elaborate on how I'm wrong there, old timer?
I respect the entire Constitution, and I agree that all should be able to practice the religion of their choosing. However, there are clauses which have been added to law which expressly prohibits the discrimination of groups, such as homosexuals, genders, races, etc., and these religious groups are discriminating against homosexuals.
Discriminating against any group is against the law of the land, and that's why this policy has been implemented and why this policy will remain. Conversely, however, the bible states for all to obey the laws of the land. Is that what the religious groups are doing here? No, they are not.
Old people truly amaze me at their ignorance. I thought that, with time, people grew wiser, but it would appear from people must get dumber and less coherent with age, as clearly displayed by your unintelligent posting.
Mike Pittman How is my history off? Religion was responsible for the crusades, the holocaust, and now, terrorism. Would you care to elaborate on how I'm wrong there, old timer?
I respect the entire Constitution, and I agree that all should be able to practice the religion of their choosing. However, there are clauses which have been added to law which expressly prohibits the discrimination of groups, such as homosexuals, genders, races, etc., and these religious groups are discriminating against homosexuals.
Discriminating against any group is against the law of the land, and that's why this policy has been implemented and why this policy will remain. Conversely, however, the bible states for all to obey the laws of the land. Is that what the religious groups are doing here? No, they are not.
Old people truly amaze me at their ignorance. I thought that, with time, people grew wiser, but it would appear from people must get dumber and less coherent with age, as clearly displayed by your unintelligent posting.
Eddie Palacios Sir: It sounds as if you are "bigoted" (your word) against Christians.
Eddie Palacios Sir: It sounds as if you are "bigoted" (your word) against Christians.
Eddie Palacios No major religion is going to endorse libidinous behavior regardless of gay or straight. If a person remains celibate they conform to most religion's teachings. Poor behavior is still poor behavior even if you identify yourself by it.
Ron Bracy I am, because christians are bigots who have made me bigoted against christians.
Brian, you're just another old timer whose ignorance and unintelligence willl pass away from the gene pool when you pass away, and then progress can finally be made.
Eddie Palacios WWII was not fought over religion. The Holocaust was not the reason the world was at war. One country out of all of them was responsible for the Holocaust and they did not start the war because of the Jews. If you knew an iota of history, you would know that. The Crusades, yes. Today's war on the jihad terrorists, it's only religion on their side, not ours so much. We have Muslims in our armed forces who are fighting them. Most wars are political, not religious.
Exactly which clause succeeds the 2nd Amendment?
The Bible states no such thing. Chapter and verse please. The Bible is replete with examples of people disobeying civil law for their faith. I do not believe that God discriminates against anyone. My very close gay Christian friends are probably more Christian than many straight Christians I know. You have very little knowledge of Christianity, or at least an extremely bigoted view of it.
And as for your personal attacks concerning my age. Kind of makes the arguments you are making sound a bit thin.
Mike Pittman you are wasting your time. Atheists are the most close minded bigoted people on the planet. They love playing the victim and crying about Christians forcing their beliefs on them while at the same time waging their war on Christianity. They can give it but can't take it. What's even worse is they mistake their narcissism for intelligence. When that happens you get guys like Eddie. Childish insult and name calling is a trademark of an atheist. Their "you don't believe my point of view so you are stupid" mentality blinds them to their own ignorance. Hypocrisy at it's best. Funny how they think they are right based on "facts" that are ironically called THEORIES.
Eddie Palacios so the nondiscrimination policy is only to be used for religious purposes? Not allowing me to join a sorority is just as discriminating as not allowing a gay individual to join a religious organization. The bylaws of the sorority says women only, the bylaws of the catholic group says no gays. Why is one ok and the other not. Open your mind not your mouth.
Eddie Palacios Discrimination is normal. I discriminate against bullies, bigots, close minded people, angry people. I associate with people of the same interests like art, photography, faith, philosophy, fellowship, community service and politics. Is the fact that I am selective or that a group comes together out of common interest discriminatory? Yes. Should I let a liberal become the leader of a conservative organization? That would be non-discrimination. To have to allow someone who is not in alliance with the goals and objectives of a group is irrational and counterproductive.
Eddie Palacios Be careful about calling others ignorant when your own comments are based on pure ignorance. The Government cannot make laws or clauses as I believe you called them which trump the constitution. That would take an amendment to the constitution. What do you think the Supreme Court was doing a couple weeks ago when they heard arguments about Obamacare…determining if the new law was constitutional. If a university wants to impose laws on Christian groups they must get an amendment to the constitution, otherwise the Second Amendment stands.
Mike Pittman I made no mention of WWII; I made mention of the holocaust. Number 1 reason why you're ignorant.
The First Amendment is the amendment discussed here regarding religion. Number 2 reason why you're ignorant.
1 Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors." Also, read Romans 13:1-7. Number 3 reason why you're ignorant.
My point is simply this: You're an ignoramus!
Christopher Pressentin Well, I don't see it as wasting my time. I know that people like him are never going to change. They are so full of hatred, that it clouds everything they see. I do it more to correct the misstatements so that other people will not think what Eddie is spewing is factual.
Note on the bible quote. It is incorrect. It says "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" Matthew 22:21
Eddie Palacios The Holocaust was not a religious war. It was not fought by Jewish Armies opposing the Germans. The Holocaust was not the reason Germany went to war. I might add that that same verse tells us to live as free people. Obeying the laws are important, but so is freedom. Matters not, someone who is so stupid as to think the Holocaust was a religious war is not worth arguing with Good lord, it should hurt to be that STUPID
Oh, yes, we were talking about the first amendment. I asked you what clause (You mentioned their were other clauses) superseded the First Amendment? What a tool.
Done with you you ignorant little crapper
Mike Pittman The Fourteenth Amendment is a start, but just Google it. It's not my job to reseach for you. There are far too many non-discrimination clauses to name here, and they were all found constitutional to be passed by the government.
I can't wait for your generation to pass away so that progress can be made, because little progress will ever be made when there are religious bigots in this world like you who only impede progress. BTW, I think you a little crapper too. Just thought I'd just cha know.
Allen Mitchell The Fourteenth Amendment…please read it. All of these non-discrimination clauses which I have spoken of have been passed by the Congress constitutionally.
Yes, I understand the SC's responsibility to ensure that legislature is constitutional, but the Fourteenth Amendment protects groups from being discriminated against. How am I ignorant to the Constitution when you are ignorant to the Fourteenth Amendment, asking me about clauses which are unconstitutional, and when those clauses were found to be constitutional by the government???
Eddie Palacios Coed dorms and organizations have been around a long time. So the justification for sororities does not hold.
Eddie Palacios actually, the Anti-Discrimination Act of 1977, which the basis for other anti-discrimination rules/laws/guidelines covers the following types of discrimination:
Sex (including breastfeeding, pregnancy and sexual harassment)
Disability (including past, present or future disability and also includes actual or perceived HIV status)
Race (including ethno-religion)
Homosexuality (actual or perceived)
Marital or domestic status
Age (present or future)
Transgender (including transsexuality)
Carer’s responsibilities (but only within employment)
I think the University has created its own demise!
Eddie Palacios actually, the Anti-Discrimination Act of 1977, which the basis for other anti-discrimination rules/laws/guidelines covers the following types of discrimination:
Sex (including breastfeeding, pregnancy and sexual harassment)
Disability (including past, present or future disability and also includes actual or perceived HIV status)
Race (including ethno-religion)
Homosexuality (actual or perceived)
Marital or domestic status
Age (present or future)
Transgender (including transsexuality)
Carer’s responsibilities (but only within employment)
I think the University has created its own demise!
Eddie Palacios It has been only four generations since antibiotics were invented but for STDs is has been many thousands of generations. They are in many cases resistant to all our antibiotics. Soon the nasty old STDs will be back and we will get to hear our friends scream when they pee from Gonorrhea or just go insane after a few years from syphilis. Libidinous behavior is proving to be more trouble than it's worth again. Even if you identify yourself by a hazardous behavior it is still a hazardous behavior.
Eddie Palacios It has been only four generations since antibiotics were invented but for STDs is has been many thousands of generations. They are in many cases resistant to all our antibiotics. Soon the nasty old STDs will be back and we will get to hear our friends scream when they pee from Gonorrhea or just go insane after a few years from syphilis. Libidinous behavior is proving to be more trouble than it's worth again. Even if you identify yourself by a hazardous behavior it is still a hazardous behavior.
Christopher Pressentin The difference between scientists' theories and christians' theories is one huge, insurmountable difference: scientists have an overwhelming amount of evidence to support them; christians have ZERO evidence!
Who's the ignoramus here? Methinks it's you.
Christopher Pressentin The difference between scientists' theories and christians' theories is one huge, insurmountable difference: scientists have an overwhelming amount of evidence to support them; christians have ZERO evidence!
Who's the ignoramus here? Methinks it's you.
Eddie Palacios so why then do they remain as THEORIES and not FACTS?…hmmm maybe because they don't have enough evidence to state something so boldly as calling the big bang or evolution a fact. Were any scientists around when the supposed big bang happened? No? How about through the process of evolution? Well then I guess they aren't very qualified to decide what happened now are they? There is a reason we call it FAITH. Some of us aren't as close minded as you that we have to see something to believe it. Way to go with more childish name calling btw. It works everytime. I call an atheist out and the response I get just proves my point so thank you for that
the best part is you are in such obvious denile that everyone else including people who are homosexuals have said this is wrong yet you seem to not make the connection based only on what seems to be just you bigotry towards Christians. Keep up the ignornace it only makes us look better and you look worse 
Eddie Palacios so why then do they remain as THEORIES and not FACTS?…hmmm maybe because they don't have enough evidence to state something so boldly as calling the big bang or evolution a fact. Were any scientists around when the supposed big bang happened? No? How about through the process of evolution? Well then I guess they aren't very qualified to decide what happened now are they? There is a reason we call it FAITH. Some of us aren't as close minded as you that we have to see something to believe it. Way to go with more childish name calling btw. It works everytime. I call an atheist out and the response I get just proves my point so thank you for that
the best part is you are in such obvious denile that everyone else including people who are homosexuals have said this is wrong yet you seem to not make the connection based only on what seems to be just you bigotry towards Christians. Keep up the ignornace it only makes us look better and you look worse 
Eddie Palacios Now I know you are crazy eddie.. the Holocaust was caused by Socialist Nazism, which hated religion, and in particular JEWS! Clauses do not override the bill of rights! We have had stupid people trying to convince dumb, uneducated Americans that somehow it does. If you look at the constitution, it goes like this: BILL OF RIGHTS (AMendments after 10th), CONSTITUTION, CLAUSES, then other laws.
The govt can not prevent a religion from exercising their own religion, even if its policies that the govt thinks is discriminatory. The Fed govt is not the end all be all of the law. Citizens do retain some rights to do what they want in life.
The bible was talking about TAXES and not religion, morality, nor damnation in that verse by Christ. You are badly misquoting the bible! This has nothing to do with "dumb old people". Clearly you are young, and ignorant yourself!
Eddie Palacios Im glad to be called Bigoted if it means that I am right. I will wear that like a wonderful, gold star on my forehead. CLearly you are the one who is so filled with hate that you cant even think straight and you are just throwing out slander hoping that it will stick like mud. Thankfully, over 80-90percent of Americans are on my side with their religious world views.
Eddie Palacios Eddie Palacios so why then do they remain as THEORIES and not FACTS?…hmmm maybe because they don't have enough evidence to state something so boldly as calling the big bang or evolution a fact. Were any scientists around when the supposed big bang happened? No? How about through the process of evolution? Well then I guess they aren't very qualified to decide what happened now are they? There is a reason we call it FAITH. Some of us aren't as close minded as you that we have to see something to believe it. Way to go with more childish name calling btw. It works everytime. I call an atheist out and the response I get just proves my point so thank you for that
the best part is you are in such obvious denile that everyone else including people who are homosexuals have said this is wrong yet you seem to not make the connection based only on what seems to be just your bigotry towards Christians. Keep up the ignorance it only makes us look better and you look worse 
Eddie Palacios Christians leave Vanderbilt- then like Sodom and Gomorrah– God doesn't have to worry about collateral damage.
Eddie Palacios Reconsider your history, Eddie. The Holocaust was caused by relligion? If anything, it was an act against religion. Freedom of religion, along with freedom of speech, recieved the PRIMARY position in our bill of rights. I am going to assume your statement that the Bible tells Christians to obey the law of the land refers to Christ's statement to render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's. That was not a carte blanche statement commanding people of faith to accept everything a government might dictate. Otherwise, Christians who resisted the Holocaust within their nations would have to have assisted in the capture, rather then hiding and protecting Jews. (in your view)
I will also note that most people on here are respectful of other's views and opinions. It seems that open bigotry is yours, not theirs… and are you discriminating against Mike and others? Age discrimination is illegal… OLD timers are a protected group…
Mike Pittman what does the first amendment have anything to do with this?
Why would a non-christian want to join the group anyway if not to cause trouble for said group. Higher educated people seem to be the closed minded donkey when it comes common sense.
Do you truly believe that all christians are heterosexual? I know plenty of homosexual christians, and the story does not state that the people wanting to join the group are non-christians, so perhaps a higher level of education would help you to pull your head out of your bum.
Eddie Palacios How high a degree of education do you want to go? I have a Ph.D. and teach Philosophy and Ethics. Plus, a veteran of Vietnam War and a survivor of the 9-11 attack on the Pentagon, plus losing a son in the War on Terror.
Eddie Palacios Will those homosexual Christians tell you their church's teachings on libidinous behavior? They know they are straying from their church's teachings just like the drinker and the philanderer. It is one thing to have a bad habit. To call your bad habits, good habits is just another bad habit.
Ron Bracy Who cares? There's a difference between educated and intelligence. Just because you're educated does not mean that you're more intelligent than me.
You exemplify the stereotypical patronizing, condescending professor. You aren't the only one who has lost loved ones, so don't give me your pity party. I've lost loved ones too. People die every single day. It's the circle of life. That still doesn't prove that a god exists, or that christians are not bigots.
Your son was lost due to religious bigotry (Islam), so why are you defending religion? It amazes me how blindly "faith" can leave people, even after "faith" has taken so much away from that person.
Brian Barkley, Ron Bracy and Dborah Jameson, if you guys are so religious how can you support an organization that discriminates against people? Aren't christians supposed to be open to all people and love everyone? It sounds like you all are full of bs. Any true believer in the bible and god would love every homosexual, not shun them.
Ted Dickson This is the case which I've been trying to make to them, but they are blinded by their "faith" and cannot think logically, because it's not in the good book of fairy tales. I should've taken Richard Dawkins's advice and not tried debating with a believer. They will never even look at the other side of the debate, because they are too biased and bigoted to imagine that they may actually be wrong. They don't consider scientific evidence as fact; they look at it as if it's non-existent.
I don't know why I even bothered posting on this forum. I feel as if I've just wasted an hour of my precious life talking to zombies.
Ted Dickson Do you believe the Catholic Church and all the other religions that teach that libidinous behavior is wrong, need to change that teaching?
Ted Dickson Do you believe the Catholic Church and all the other religions that teach that libidinous behavior is wrong, need to change that teaching?
Eddie Palacios Next time do us a favor and don't waste your time
Eddie Palacios Next time do us a favor and don't waste your time
Mark Adams How about you include some intelligent substance to your comments and actually contribute to the debate, instead of trying to tell me not to exercise my First Amendment right to free speech? Or are you just a blabbering fool with no intelligent response to make?
I usually don't agree with Eddie, however, if they are going to evict gays, will they extend that standard other sinners? …to adulterers, people having sex before marriage, lying and other sins?
Brian Barkley doesn't christianity teach to remove the stick from your eye before removing the twig from someone else's? He who is without sin cast the first stone, familiar? I guess christians preach but don't practice.
Ted Dickson I'm a christian Ted. Generallities about a group is not fair. Please attach the specific behavior.
Ted Dickson The next line in that text was go forth and sin no more. I am not throwing any stones but don't tell me that Christianity or any other major religion is going to declare libidinous behavior is as beneficial as people producing new people.
Starley Shelton I do not believe the article, nor the group, have talked about evicting gays. I believe the whole issue is if they are allowed to hold a post of officer to the group. They are not saying gays are not allowed in the group, just not allowed in positions of officership.
Eddie Palacios If they are truely following the bible and the word of god, then yes they are heterosexual. That being said, so too are are those heterosexuals who are not sleeping around from one partner to another during the week and then claiming to be a christian on sunday. They are lying to themselves, and to God just as much as if they were doing homosexual deeds. Same for lying, stealing, worshiping other gods (including themselves as their own god such as athiests do), etc.
True Christians have a completely different mentality than the sterotypical sunday/holiday christians. Pasters know this, as a true Christian is living it every day, not just on Sundays. They are the ones who are attending bible studies several times a week, and praying several times a day. As they say, they dont just talk the talk, but also walk the walk.
Sadly you assume that people who are Christians are somehow not educated. Most people in my church are doctors, nurses, pharmacists, lawyers, business professionals (MBA's), public school teachers (most with masters or better). We have a giant college student group too. I find that more people who are educated, actually find more insight into their reading of the bible. In our bible studies, I often have to go and research the incredible insightfulness they have of the word of god.
Brian Barkley , Go into a church and preach a lesson on gluttony and how it is a deadly sin and causes you to go to hell.
Jacob Weber lets be real here. A bunch of highly educated people believe in talking snakes? That god created light before creating a light source? That god is omnipotent but needed a day off? That Adam and Eve started the human population with two sons? That god made jealousy and envy sins then demanded that everyone worship him and no other? That god came to Earth and sacrificed himself to himself? Perhaps religion was created to control people? It gives hope to the weak and poor, yet the religious leaders walk around in exotic fabrics and gold jewelry demanding its followers give money to the church. Sounds legit to me.
Ted Dickson IDK about the snakes thing. My church doesnt believe in that. But yes on light. God didnt "need a day off", he choose to take the day off to enjoy what he had just created, and to remind humans that they should honor god for that. Yes god started with just 1 man and then decided to make a woman for that 1 man.
God did send his only son to earth, not just to sacrifice himself but to prove to the world that he could rise from the dead and overcome anything, thereby proving that Christ was the messiah. It does give hope to the weak and poor, and the rich too. If you had read the bible, Matthew was a rich tax collector who gave that up to follow christ after he saw his miracles.
I dont agree with what most Catholic Churches have used exotic fabrics and gold jewlery in their services and churches but I can see why they have. It was a way to show to people a contrast between the wonder of that on earth and to explain to new believers that there was even better than that in heaven.
Most modern US based churches are not anywhere close to having that kind of "riches".
Jacob Weber you didn't answer the part about Adam and Eve only having two sons, but somehow the human population grew from that. Or that god demands worship from humans but tells humans not to envy or be jealous. What about Mary getting pregnant without having sex? If the Earth is 10,000 years old, where did dinosaurs come from? If god is all powerful how was he only able to create life in 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe? Did Noah really put two animals of every species on the ark? God killed more people in the bible than Satan.
Jacob Weber you didn't answer the part about Adam and Eve only having two sons, but somehow the human population grew from that. Or that god demands worship from humans but tells humans not to envy or be jealous. What about Mary getting pregnant without having sex? If the Earth is 10,000 years old, where did dinosaurs come from? If god is all powerful how was he only able to create life in 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe? Did Noah really put two animals of every species on the ark? God killed more people in the bible than Satan.
All these groups should be looking for a different University, I should wouldn't waste my money on this one.
Good idea. Ask Christian alumni to withhold ALL their donations and Christian students to change schools or sit out one semester if possible, until the university changes its policy. The group is wrong according to the bible, actually, and should welcome all comers. If they try to destroy or damage the group, they can correctly be asked to leave the meeting. We should not spread the Gospel ONLY to other believers!
Kevin Marler The group did welcome all comers to the group. The whole issue is whether folks that do not follow the belief of the group should be allowed an officership position in the group. How is it that people continue to take the issue and extrapolate that the group isn't allowing all to be a part? Amazing.
Vanderbilt IS persecuting Christian students and groups. Why would a gay student want to be part of a group that didn't welcome him? I'm a lesbian, I wouldn't want to join a group that didn't want me among them. I certainly wouldn't want the group to be forced to accept me, regardless of the circumstances. If this is the way they're going to play, I'd love to see one of the gay groups be forced to accept a member who disagrees with homosexuality…
Going to have to write about this on my blog. This is outrageous
because they are using gay students monies from mandatory fees! idiot
Nathan Luebke The point stands that Mel made, why would they want to go where they won't be welcomed. This is just a reason to stir up trouble. My university uses my fees to pay for lots of clubs that I wouldn't be comfortable attending and who would likely do their best to get me to leave if I came to meetings. I don't demand the University fix it because they are using my money.
Meredith Ancret 'Sketch' Walker not that discriminate and have specific understanding that your not welcome. Your correct you may not attend all campus clubs but its another situation where you were specifically told you were not able to attend. To your point of not forcing your hand against a club you dont agree with, that may be your approach but that may not be mine and I would be all for getting their funding taken away
Mel Maguire. Excellent reply. Would a gay group allow an ultra conservative who hated gays join? And then run for president of the group or take an organizational role? Of course not. It is not reasonable. Reasonable discrimination is common sense.
Mel Maguire. Excellent reply. Would a gay group allow an ultra conservative who hated gays join? And then run for president of the group or take an organizational role? Of course not. It is not reasonable. Reasonable discrimination is common sense.
Starley Shelton you have obviously lost your mind! first by your logic it simply cannot be since Christians are a majority group and Gays are a minority so that's like comparing apples to oranges. Further yes a ultra conservative Christian can join and run for president of a gay group but it would be up to the members of that gay group if they want to elect him or her as president. Vanderbilt is not arguing that what is being discussed is that the ultra conservatives are not allowing gays to be members or run for president of the group, the ultra conservatives are trying to use religious exception to put barriers in place to prevent these students from being involved.
Nathan Luebke Heck I would join just to make my anti-homosexuality viewpoint known. They couldnt even kick me out since they would be "discriminating against me". This stupid policy goes both ways. It really doesnt matter because courts have already said that religious organizations do not have to accept anyone in their organization, nor leadership, if it interfers with their religious 1st amendment rights. This is a lawsuit this school will lose when its all said and done.
Nathan Luebke Heck I would join just to make my anti-homosexuality viewpoint known. They couldnt even kick me out since they would be "discriminating against me". This stupid policy goes both ways. It really doesnt matter because courts have already said that religious organizations do not have to accept anyone in their organization, nor leadership, if it interfers with their religious 1st amendment rights. This is a lawsuit this school will lose when its all said and done.
Nathan Luebke I fail to see your logic. First Vanderbilt is stating exactly that. Membership can't be exclusive. The nature of any group is that it will exclude those who disagree with its goals and unifying ideals. Should a group of 10 people who join together in a Christian God be forced to accept 20 people who are Moslems. Or Skinheads invade a Jewish group. According to the Vanderbilt policy you may not discriminate based on religious or ethnic grounds. Groups by their nature form to a certain philosophy or purpose. Other groups form to the opposing philosophy. Each has the ability to join together for their specific needs. Each has the ability to express itself.
Your point in minority vs majority is also invalid. Minority group and organizations also discriminate. Because they are a minority does not make discrimination impossible. These discrimination rules may actually make it harder for minority groups to form and express their views. The ability for like minded persons to join together to express themselves is a key element in freedom of expression.
i think the entire point is that they dont want groups on campus that dont welcome everybody. Just like they wouldnt want a KKK or nazi group on campus, they dont want christian groups if those groups are going to discriminate against homosexuals.
Another point is that nobody is telling these groups that they cannot form and they cannot meet. They will have to meet off campus (what, no Starbucks around?) and they won't get funds from the university. If you want university funds, especially from a private univeristy, you play by their rules. This has been upheld by the Supreme Court on numerous occasions – usually in favor of private Christian organizations who want to discriminate in their hiring/firing and/or membership policies, including the Boy Scouts. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, you are all boohooing. Can't have it both ways folks!!!
Jacob Weber your the one who misses the point. Minority groups are just that and our system is set up to protect minorities from the majority in our society. Its very hard to discriminate against a majority. Vanderbilt hasn't taken away Christian rights they simply have restricted the anti-movement on campus against Gays and non-Christians. 40 years ago Vanderbilt would have faced the same challenge when they forced their hand at not allowing anti-black movements or anti-integration groups on campus. With every comment on this page in offense to Vanderbilt providing a welcoming place for ALL students it just further shows how some Christian denominations needs to be removed from the general public because all many do is promote hate, divide, and cry persecution. You Christians have no one to blame but your selves.
Nathan Luebke Im sorry but protecting the "minorties" doesnt mean trampling over the rights of the majority either.
Im sorry but christains are not promoting hate, dividing, nor crying persecution when there isnt any. People like you are promoting the opposing view to that of the written word of God, and that is not hateful. It is in love that christians point out your sin, with the hope that you will see it and repent of your sins.
This is a sad commentary on our society when liberals have used this stupid line of mental thought to try to stop the mainstream society and how most Americans see evil for what it is and call you guys out on it only to be accused of discrimination. Im sorry but Evil should be discriminated against.
Nathan Luebke – the Constitution does not support protecting the minority from the majority. It only supports the rights of ALL, regardless of the feelings of a few. Vanderbilt can, contrary to popular belief, provide an inclusive environment for all students without forcing every group to accept members whose beliefs and lifestyles run counter to the beliefs of a certain group. It's like forcing a group of students to be friends with someone who complains they feel lonely on campus; even if the university were to force something like that, it would always be awkward.
It is a disgrace and an embarrassment that we're even having this discussion. The existence of a majority of Christians does not constitute an "anti" movement at all. Kids should be learning in high school – even more so in college – that you will cross paths with people throughout your life who disagree with your ideals and may believe your lifestyle is wrong. The purpose of teaching that in teenage years is to help a kid learn to navigate life without expecting everyone to be sensitive. There is no right to NOT have your feelings hurt, and that is really all this is about.
Jacob, I have to disagree with you there. Your religion tells you that homosexuality is "evil" – that doesn't make it a reality. The law will not support recognition of that sort of thing. You are entitled to your belief, but you are no more entitled to force your belief on anyone than Nathan is to force his belief on you.
Mel Maguire , this has nothing to do with the constitution or free speech. Vanderbilt, a private organization, sets rules and guidelines for student groups. They are allowed to do this. I really dont see the big deal.
Jacob Weber, Christians are promoting hate when they refuse to allow members of a group because of sexual orientation. That is the definition of biggotry.
oh they are right, they are not singling out any one Christian org> they are singling out every one, 11 in paticular.
If you don't want to practice your mythology while being encumbered, you're free to do so but cannot declare your mythological group as official unless you comply with the rules. What's the big deal? Why do mythology believers think they get special privileges?
And you're a top commenter! Do you believe in air since you cannot see it? or gravity? Do you believe there is life on other planets? Much searching still has not produce any evidence. Do you believe in dark energy or dark matter, or bosons? The last one not a shred of evidence, but one day it may be found and proved. Similarly, one cannot say there is no god, since it may just not have been discovered yet. You also have a religion and faith of your own. You BELIEVE and have FAITH that no god will ever be found. You choose to believe that any evidence of a god is absolutely false, though you also refuse to even consider it. Have you ever read the bible to see for yourself if it makes sense? Shouldn't you consider it as an adult knowing you will spend all eternity somewhere? Or do you CHOOSE to BELIEVE there is no eternity, though you cannot prove that either? I hope you will give it some thought, my friend.
WAY TO GO Vanderbilt..we are so proud of you. Why do students who are Gay or not Christian need their student fees handed to groups who have doctrines of discrimination towards them. They are not discriminating against Christians what they are saying is hey Christian groups treat people with dignity and respect and you can be a funded campus group or if you push your ugly outdated agendas on to the student body then do it off campus with no student monies. Sounds good to me!
Just curious… Should Christian/Moslem/Jewish student fees be used to support homosexual groups? Pro-choice groups? These groups policies discriminate against people who oppose their views. Is bigot a hateful word? Christians can, and do, treat people with dignity and respect, even when they believe they are wrong. There is a lot less vitriol from Christian groups then others.
Mark Leclerc yes they should support Homosexual groups. Why? because there is nothing wrong with Homosexuality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nathan Luebke Does that mean there is something wrong with Christianity? If funds from homosexuals are not to be used for Christian groups, because they disapprove of homosexual practice and belief (that it is a good thing), why should Christian funds be used to support groups that differ from their views? A true Catholic, for instance, (one who accepts Church thinking and doctrine) would not be welcome in a gay/lesbian club… and don't say many Catholics are. Those who do are not accepting their Church's doctrine…
Nathan Luebke Does that mean there is something wrong with Christianity? If funds from homosexuals are not to be used for Christian groups, because they disapprove of homosexual practice and belief (that it is a good thing), why should Christian funds be used to support groups that differ from their views? A true Catholic, for instance, (one who accepts Church thinking and doctrine) would not be welcome in a gay/lesbian club… and don't say many Catholics are. Those who do are not accepting their Church's doctrine…
Mark Leclerc yes there is something wrong with certain elements of Christianity. For example you obviously are a Christian and you seem or come across as very unhappy. Someone who would post, and I quote you "Christian groups, because they disapprove of homosexual practice and belief (that it is a good thing)" obviously has some inner issues that need to be examined. Many sects of Christianity are just disguised doctrine to empower people to spread bigotry, hate, and discrimination. The idea that you would create a group of people and segregate them as "others" and make them second class citizens and advocate against them based simply on the bible and inner belief and interpretation is very sad. Many denominations in Christianity round up insignificant people and herd them around like sheep and fill their head with idiotic ideas.Read this message board its just a group of nuts who are either quoting the bible or retyping right wing talking points they got from Fox News. Personally I think your a waste of time and I feel silly responding to you, but you may be able to discriminate now in the short term but every moment we go forward your sham belief system is exposed for what it is….ignorance.
In this diversity embracing society we have today, it is good to see that some groups do NOT give up their beliefs for the sake of convenience. Non-violent religious groups have the right to their beliefs, and I commend them for staying true to them. We should remember, diversity, by it's very nature, divides a people into groups that have differing ideals and viewpoints. Without some common ground, i.e. language, laws, etc, diversity will eventually divide people away from each other. We should tollerate diversity, but encorage those things that unify us as a nation. The colleges seem to have forgotten the big picture of unity in their quest for diversity.
If the campus makes the rules, the group must abide by them. The same applies to every American in this country. If the government passes legislation, we must obey it.
I am glad that the campus is implementing this non-discrimination policy, because the christians are the ones discriminating against people due to their sexual preference. I guess if you're not allowed to join a christian group for being gay, that is somehow NOT discriminatory? Gimme a break!
Self-righteous christians make me sick, and christians need to realize that God hates the sin, not the sinner. That's a concept that I don't believe bigoted religious zeolots will never grasp.
Finally, people have learned that the phrase "separation of church and state" does not ban religions, it PROTECTS them. So, now they are using the "its discrimination" rule to attack Christians. I think as Christians they should allow all comers regardless of faith or sexual orientation, as my church does, and show them the same love of Christ. If they are disruptive or destructive to the meeting then anyone would agree they should be asked to leave the meeting.
University spokesperson Beth Fortune- “Vanderbilt is a welcoming place of religious groups of all kinds,” she said. How can you welcome a religious group, and then say, "now this is what your beliefs must conform to"???
These "rules" are always detrimental to Christians primarily. A British airline recently banned flight attendants from wearing crosses at work, because "it's not part of their religious requirements". Interestingly, it wont affect the Muslims who are overtaking over France and Britain, because what they wear IS a part of their beliefs!
Finally, people have learned that the phrase "separation of church and state" does not ban religions, it PROTECTS them. So, now they are using the "its discrimination" rule to attack Christians. I think as Christians they should allow all comers regardless of faith or sexual orientation, as my church does, and show them the same love of Christ. If they are disruptive or destructive to the meeting then anyone would agree they should be asked to leave the meeting.
University spokesperson Beth Fortune- “Vanderbilt is a welcoming place of religious groups of all kinds,” she said. How can you welcome a religious group, and then say, "now this is what your beliefs must conform to"???
These "rules" are always detrimental to Christians primarily. A British airline recently banned flight attendants from wearing crosses at work, because "it's not part of their religious requirements". Interestingly, it wont affect the Muslims who are overtaking over France and Britain, because what they wear IS a part of their beliefs!
Kevin Marler The University is not telling the religious groups what to believe; they are simply telling them that they are not allowed to discriminate against homosexual Christians. Have you ever met a homosexual Christian before? I have, and they understand that God does not hate them; he only hates the sin. Even Catholics understand this concept, so why can't Christians?
You're just another self-righteous, bigoted, religious zeolot, so I wouldn't expect you to understand what's going on here. You don't understand, because if it's not written in the good book, you don't believe it.
The bible also states to obey the laws of the land, and the religious group is clearly defying the laws by disregarding the campus's rules, so this is just another example of how hypocritical christians truly are. If christians practice their religion, they should actually read and study the bible, and then learn about what the bible teaches. Instead, Christians rely on a preacher's own interpretation of it.
Eddie Palacios Should the black student union be disbanded, should the LGBT groups be disbanded, should the college democrats be disbanded because they don't allow Republicans? Should the Muslims student groups be disbanded because they don't allow Jews or Christians? Every group discriminates because you have to fit a certain set of attributes to belong.
Eddie Palacios Should the black student union be disbanded, should the LGBT groups be disbanded, should the college democrats be disbanded because they don't allow Republicans? Should the Muslims student groups be disbanded because they don't allow Jews or Christians? Every group discriminates because you have to fit a certain set of attributes to belong.
Luke Lindmeyer That is up to the Congress to decide. If the Congress decides to pass legislation to prevent the absolute discrimination of any group from any group, then it would be up to the Supreme Court to decide if it's constitutional or not. If legislation were to pass to prevent the absolute discrimination from any group, and it's constitutional, then I would say "yes."
Luke Lindmeyer That is up to the Congress to decide. If the Congress decides to pass legislation to prevent the absolute discrimination of any group from any group, then it would be up to the Supreme Court to decide if it's constitutional or not. If legislation were to pass to prevent the absolute discrimination from any group, and it's constitutional, then I would say "yes."
Eddie Palacios So the LPGA and WNBA must allow men to play? Even though they are private groups, in the LPGA they play on public courses and the WNBA plays in arenas that are tax payer funded, thus the government is discriminating against men. One can go as far as saying any organization is illegal even thouse which require certain academic or physical requirments as they are unfair to the weak and mentally disabled.
Luke Lindmeyer You're comparing apples to oranges now, and you're oversimplifying the issues here. The issue is about the religious group not allowing homosexual CHRISTIANS to enter their CHRISTIAN group. The CHRISTIANS are not allowed into the CHRISTIAN group, because they are discriminated against due to their sexual preference. That's against the law, because of the clauses, bills, and legislation which have been passed in order to prevent discrimination.
Therefore, the religious group is breaking the law, and the policy is constitutional. The policy will pass, and for good reason.
Eddie Palacios Sorry Eddie, but the rules say you can't discriminate due to religion either. and why are they leaving out gender discrimination. And by the way, the Civil Rights act does NOT protect you from discrimination due to sexual orientation. So it is not the law.
Eddie Palacios Sorry Eddie, but the rules say you can't discriminate due to religion either. and why are they leaving out gender discrimination. And by the way, the Civil Rights act does NOT protect you from discrimination due to sexual orientation. So it is not the law.
Eddie Palacios Your argument on Congress passing laws doesn't hold. There is not a law against private organizations discriminating. the Civil Rights Acts apply to discrimination in hiring and housing.
Eddie Palacios Your argument on Congress passing laws doesn't hold. There is not a law against private organizations discriminating. the Civil Rights Acts apply to discrimination in hiring and housing.
Starley Shelton Please read the Fourteenth Amendment. That will provide you with the evidence to support my premise. BTW, according to the law, you can't discriminate against any group, including religion, but that's precisely what this religious group is doing: they're discriminating against homosexual christians.
Starley Shelton Please read the Fourteenth Amendment. That will provide you with the evidence to support my premise. BTW, according to the law, you can't discriminate against any group, including religion, but that's precisely what this religious group is doing: they're discriminating against homosexual christians.
Eddie Palacios Actually, they are not descriminating against homosexuals joining the group. They are just not allowing them to hold positions of authority (officership positions). This is completely separate. Question to a comment you keep using in most of your posts….. These Christian homosexuals you refer to – are the practicing their homosexualness? If so, how do they rectify their faith with their activity, as you said in your post – God hates the sin, not the sinner….. Just curious because you seem to be using logic to rationalize logic that convicts the same logic.
Eddie Palacios Actually, they are not descriminating against homosexuals joining the group. They are just not allowing them to hold positions of authority (officership positions). This is completely separate. Question to a comment you keep using in most of your posts….. These Christian homosexuals you refer to – are the practicing their homosexualness? If so, how do they rectify their faith with their activity, as you said in your post – God hates the sin, not the sinner….. Just curious because you seem to be using logic to rationalize logic that convicts the same logic.
Eddie Palacios This is a common stupidity by the liberals like you. How do you know that God wont sentence that gay christian to hell.. The bible says otherwise. If you do not stop doing the sin, and do not repent from your sin, when you die and appear before god and he asks "who are you? I dont know who you are because you never asked for forgiveness", his only choice is to banish you to hell because he wont be around sin.
The bible does not say to blindly obey the laws of the land. As i mentioned before, that verse is talking about taxes, not morality and gods commandments. Mark12:17/Luke 20:25/Romans 13:7
"show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, FEAR GOD, honor the king" 1peter2:17
"Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon." Isaiah 55:7
I post these not to just be posting verses. I posted these to show how badly you are missinformed of the bible as you seem to "know it all".
Jacob Weber You're just a charlatan who thinks you know it all, and your answer is the right answer in every single debate. After this final comment, I'm done debated you bunch of bigoted Christians.
Not one shred of evidence that God exists, and all of the fallacy in the Book of Genesis, and you still believe in God and the bible is factual. Why on Earth would a God of Love condemn a sinner to Hell when He was responsible for sin to begin with by creating the Tree of Knowledge
He's omniscient, so He knew that Adam & Eve would fall for the temptation, and then the sin which He hates so much would become pervasive throughout the entire world, but what does He do? He puts the temptation tree right in the middle of the garden. Then, He sends Himself to die for the sins for which He was responsible???
If He's omnipotent, then why would He have to sacrifice Himself to Himself through the blood offering of the crucifixion? If He's omnipotent, then He can simply forgive all who ask without death and the spilling of blood.
In any case, Genesis is full of shit, because the scientific evidence which proves that the universe is 13 billion years old, the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, and that all species are related through evolution by way of DNA completely disproves creationism.
What am I trying to say? You exemplify the stereotype of the self-righteous, bigoted, I'm-right-and-you're-absolutely-wrong Christian. In other words…FUCK OFF!
Eddie Palacios The 14th amendment has nothing to do with "discrimination" in the sense that liberals are using it today. It was strictly meant to stop slavery and enforce due process of law against ex-slaves.
Discriminating (sp)
Money Talks…Actively engage alumni to NOT donate money unless the changes are reversed…Currently, Vanderbilt is giving itself a black eye. They must be proud!
Money Talks…Actively engage alumni to NOT donate money unless the changes are reversed…Currently, Vanderbilt is giving itself a black eye. They must be proud!
I teach 10th Graders at San Antonio Christian Schools. Today we took a Field Trip to the San Antonio Jewish Holocaust Memorial Museum. The policy of Vanderbilt is the exact type of policies which the Nazis used to create the mindset which resulted in the Holocaust — the murder of 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 non-Jewish groups which the Nazis considered inferior. How long before Vanderbilt-type policies spread throughout America against Christian groups? And, then, to other "inferior" groups. Be careful, you might be one of those "inferior" groups!
See Godwin's law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
See Godwin's law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Erik Jensen Excellent. Didn't take too long here, did it?
@Erik Jensen; I bet you've been waiting a long time to post that so you could feel intelligent. Did it work? I can't tell, because you still seem unintelligent to me.
Eden Stanton I think it is quite a leap to go from a student group being refused funding to Christians getting put in gas chambers.
Erik Jensen Erik, I think that was the point…. the folks that endured the holocost also thought it a giant leap to go from some small group being refused certain things, to all of the sudden getting put in the gas chambers….. That is the whole reason for his post.
So by a private college not allowing discrimiantion, they are somehow on the path to commit genocide?
Douglas Brininstool That makes it no less ridiculous. It didn't go from a small group being refused certain things to the gas chambers. It was out and out suppression of a large populus from the beginning. To compare it to what is going on at Vanderbilt defies logic. To complain that it is a hardship being a Christian in America today is like complaining that handicapped people get all the good parking spaces. It reeks of ignorance and self-absorption.
Joe Gonzalez , i would think it would be easier to compare christians excluding people from membership based on race/religion/sexual orientation, to the nazis instead of vanderbilt. Vanderbilt is standing up for ALL of its students, by not allowing them to be descriminated against.
Sean Brooks Indeed Sean. As Jon Stewart said, these Christians are confusing a war on religion with not always getting everything they want. Yet when we want to openly accept a gay person or someone from another religion (dare I mention the M-word?), then we are in the wrong.
the next generation is of value and mattress sports aren't. Most religions consider that a given. I wonder how long it will take to get to the Muslims. That won't go well for the school.
the next generation is of value and mattress sports aren't. Most religions consider that a given. I wonder how long it will take to get to the Muslims. That won't go well for the school.
There is a difference between persecution and not always getting your way. These rules apply to all student groups, so it is not persecution of Christians. The Christian groups happen to be the ones that don't want to play by the rules at Vanderbilt. They can form their own groups without official campus recognition if they want to discriminate (on belief or sexual orientation or whatever). Vanderbilt should be applauded for refusing to fund such discrimination.
Let me remind you that the courts have said that if they allow one "club" then they must accept all clubs. The courts have said that public schools can not prohibit a Christian group from participating in a club, if they allow any other clubs to participate. Doing so violated their 1st amendment rights.
So the only legal way that Vanderbilt can discriminate against these christian groups is if they kicked EVERY GROUP, including the gay groups, off campus.
Jacob Weber , the only thing stopping these Christian student groups from having a recognized club is their own policies of discrimination. Vanderbilt does not prohibit Christian clubs. They are refusing to fund and recognize clubs that discriminate against the students who are providing the funding. The gay groups don't discriminate, so they get funding.
I should also point out that Vanderbilt is a private school. Can a group of students at Liberty U start a satanic club and expect to get funding from the school? I think not.
Jacob Weber , the only thing stopping these Christian student groups from having a recognized club is their own policies of discrimination. Vanderbilt does not prohibit Christian clubs. They are refusing to fund and recognize clubs that discriminate against the students who are providing the funding. The gay groups don't discriminate, so they get funding.
I should also point out that Vanderbilt is a private school. Can a group of students at Liberty U start a satanic club and expect to get funding from the school? I think not.
Erik Jensen Im sorry but this whole idea that discrimination against EVIL is somehow wrong is truely what is wrong with our society today. The debate that being gay or having a gay group is somehow ok is just disgusting, and shows how morally bankrupt our society has become.
That being said, If they, or another group (like satanists) would want to be on campus, then I would fight for their rights to be there. As SCOTUS said in a freedom of speach ruling over the right of the KKK to assemble, "the first amendment is there to protect not just accepted speach but also speach that would be deamed by some as being offensive in nature" (or something to that effect).
I dont think that the private school can hide behind their own discrimination against these religious groups if they are accepting any sort of govt funds, including grants, or student loans.
Jacob Weber, you are inventing your own reality. This is not about the freedom to assemble or speak. The Christians can assemble and speak all they want (and so can the KKK and NAMBLA). Nothing in the Vanderbilt policy prohibits that. This is about university recognition and funding of student groups. That's it. There is no Constitutional right to recognition and funding by a university.
Liberty University shut down the campus Democratic club and I bet you they would not allow a gay club (or even an openly gay student). They aren't making being a Democrat illegal or prohibiting them from assembling. They are just refusing to fund and recognize this club which goes against their values as an institution.
As a Vanderbilt alumnus (M.Div. 1990), I will never send a penny to this institution. This is a travesty. This is nothing but oppressive political correctness to the extreme.
I am amazed at the hate that is being show. If you don't accept gays__then stay away from them. They have just as many rights as anyone else.
Do you believe the Catholic Church and most of the other religions can't teach that libidinous behavior is wrong?
Do you believe the Catholic Church and most of the other religions can't teach that libidinous behavior is wrong?
All religion is posion.
God is, and our government acknowledges that.
God is, and our government acknowledges that.
Brian Barkley, our government acknowledges that God is poison?
Tim Donovan Clever and stupid in one post. funny.
Thats funny to read because all the moral and economic decline in the USA can be directly traced to when GOD was banned from schools in 1949. After that, crime of all types went up 600-1500 percent.
Oh and if we were follwing the Holy bible, we wouldnt have $15trillion in debt and $100trillion in debt obligations because the bible talks extensively about how people should not borrow money they can not pay back.
Jacob Weber, the delusion is strong with you! I don't have enough characters to enumerate the myraid ways in which you're wrong. But given how you no doubt believe that Earth is 6,000 years old, there's no hope for you.
Jacob Weber, what about when "God" was in the classroom prior to 1949, when America had suffered for decades? While I find some of the philosophies of Jesus to be worthwhile, the overwhleming majority of so-called Christians wouldn't know those philosophies if they dropped in their laps. Today's Christian and Christ are like oil and water. Again, all religion is poison, and Western organized religion is the worst…
Jacob Weber "Oh and if we were follwing the Holy bible, we wouldnt have $15trillion in debt and $100trillion in debt obligations because the bible talks extensively about how people should not borrow money they can not pay back "
lololololol!!!! That has to be the funniest thing I have ever seen posted on this forum!!
One solution is to boycot the University. Imagine if the applications for the 2012 fall class dropped by 75 percent. THAT would send a message that Americans are, indeed, part of a Christian nation.
If the school wants to eliminate all discrimination, perhaps they should also not discriminate against those who score less than a 31 on their ACT, and students who on only have a B average. Isn't that a form of instant discrimination? Why have only good players on your sports teams? Aren't you discriminating against other players who would like to play? Discrimination of all sorts happens in everything you do. If you don't discriminate those who do their work and test well from those who don't then you can't even give grades. If you're going to eliminate discrimination – lets see it across the board.
Time to file a religious discrimination charge. All of you sue for an astronomical sum and receive a FREE education at the schools expense. Also, ask for the firing of the president while your at it.
Time to file a religious discrimination charge. All of you sue for an astronomical sum and receive a FREE education at the schools expense. Also, ask for the firing of the president while your at it.
How Come None of the Vanderbilt Christian's are talking about protesting this action. I mean if there are something like 500 Catholics alone I would expect that they could get at least 1000 affected Christians from their own Campus to protest and who knows how many people from outside. This is the only kind of thing that the haters in charge at places like Vandy understand bad Press.
you people need to read the bible the very first thing and then come back and comment.Nothing in the bible states how old the world is, the big bang thero. is crap that is when God kicked the divels out of heaven and they destroied every thing God had done and between Gen. 1 and 2 could have been billions of years and as far as christan groups disc. aginst homo read Rom.1- the whole chapter.
Religious commitment by definition has to do with the transcendent. Only transcendent meaning and value can inform our religious deliverances otherwise they are arbitrary. If arbitrary they could be subject to the pronouncements of university spokespeople and wouldn't have very much moral force or be especially useful. But then that seems to be the whole idea at Vanderbilt.
Being "non-discriminatory " is not the ultimate good. Nonetheless, according to Christianity all are sinners and all are called to repent. That is the ultimate non-discrimination policy.
All are sinners? Newborns are sinners? Downs Syndrome kids are sinners?
Ken Thor White : It is that all are born with a "sin nature". The inability to express that nature does not eliminate it. What provision God makes for those cases does not diminish the necessity for the rest of us to acknowledge our own moral inadequacy-which is more to the point here.
I don't see Todd writing articles about gay and Muslim groups that now have to allow Christian members to run for offices. I guess you're only being 'singled out' for 'persecution' by policies that affect all groups equally when you're Christian.
Paging Jay Sekulow, a lawsuit looks to be in order to demonstrate the Free Exercise clause.
Paging Jay Sekulow, a lawsuit looks to be in order to demonstrate the Free Exercise clause.
You can count the fact that many of us American citizens that have a faith, will not be sending our children to Vanderbuilt, nor will we support any activities of Vanderbuilt, and we will publically promote rejection of Vanderbuilt to all we know. They will only understand pressure via the pocketbook – and when tuition numbers decrease, they will respond in kind. Who will join us?
Poor Beth Fortune! — called upon to explain and support an unsupportable policy. I imagine that Ms Fortune is not the creator or the establisher of the discriminatory nondiscrimination policy, merely the minion called upon to be the "cutout" for the rest of Vanderbilt University, shielding the University hierarchy with her professional skills and her credibility, which are now being stretched to the limit. Who in the Vanderbilt hierarchy is being protected, and how much longer can they hide before making a statement or reconsidering the policy?
I feel very badly for academics, who have such marvelous theories for the advancement of humankind, especially when their theories collide with reality. Theories don't always work well in reality, as reality is the intersection of all theories. Dealing with the intersection-with-reality shortcoming of so many academics then forces the boundary-spanners, the poor public relations flaks who have to deal with the reality of the generated outrage, to fall upon their swords while dealing with the outcry. Perhaps the shielded academics in the Vanderbilt hierarchy will look out of their ivory tower windows at the clear light of day and reconsider their misquided, discriminatory nondiscrimination policy.
Perhaps some of you out there might want to communicate with the misfortunate Ms Fortune (!) about her plight! She can be reached at: beth.fortune@vanderbilt.edu which is clearly posted on Vanderbilt's website at: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/publicaffairs/vice-chancellor/fortune/.
Just because a non-Christian can run for a leadership position doesn't mean they would win, in fact I would think they would have very little chance, so it seems like these organizations are more interested in making a statement and preserving their "purity". I think they could learn something from this non-discrimination policy and try opening their doors to people of different faiths or no faith, otherwise they become nothing more than a closed, and closed-minded, private club, which is exactly how they are acting.
Jerry, what you do not understand is that for Christians, their God hates sin more than anything. So, to allow someone who sins without asking for forgiveness, and not wanting to try and get past the sin, but desires to continue living in the sin, is counter to that group in all foundational respects, and therefore should not be allowed a position.
I would be curious to know just how many of their campus religious organizations have had people who wanted to run for office but were not of the faith so were not allowed to do so. This seems to me would be a rare occurrence I would think. Because the reality is, what person in their right mind wants to do that? I can't help but wonder if all this energy and attention is based on one attention whore that wanted force the issue. Who goes where they are not wanted? Who tries to make the world want them? Does anyone really think this makes a person more "acceptable" to the organizations? Of course not. It simply will make them despised. It has to be a mental illness to want to be in a position that sets themselves up for such disdain.
I wonder what would happen if a heterosexual Christian were to seek a leadership role in a Gay/Lesbian group? Do ya think someone might tell him/her that they don't fit well in that scenario? Do ya think that the University would force the group to allow it? Somehow, I doubt it. Somehow, these scenarios always flow one direction……against the people of faith.
Not only do I see that happening, I hope and pray that at every meeting, a Christian would stand up and make a statement against homosexuality and would "apply for leadership to help transition them to a future without sin".
Republicans should do it in democrat meeting, and at every club on campus. Even a science club, go in and try to vote it to become a dirt club, or meat eaters club. Oh man this could be soo much fun to try to do this.
Eddie Palacios. You have obviously read the Bible. We are taught to "obey the laws of the land"….until they conflict with God's laws. Daniel and his 3 friends all faced this dilemma and were considered righteous for choosing God's laws. Paul and Silas refused to stop preaching in the name of Jesus, counter to the command of the authorities of their day, and were set free from their bonds supernaturally. Having set that record straight, I would like to make this observation: Too often Christians are labelled "bigots, hateful, intolerant", etc. It would seem to me that the people doing all the name-calling appear less like victims and more like agitators.
What the school is saying, in effect, is a Athiest can join a religuis groop, and become part of the leadership of thay groop. Or a Nazi skinhead can join a Jewish groop.. and this is a school of higher learning?
I find it ironic that one of their affiliated institutes is the FREEDOM FORUM FIRST AMENDMENT FOUNDATION. If they are getting any sort of public funds, then they are liable for violating the 1st amendment with this policy.
So then where is your outrage at the recent story of a Christian school firing their volleyball coach, an acclaimed teacher, for getting pregnant out of wedlock? If you claim it is their right to do so because they are a private institution, then you need to back off this Vanderbilt thing as well. Both are private institutions with a right to enforce their own rules, no matter how discriminatory they are.
Another point is that nobody is telling these groups that they cannot form and they cannot meet. They will have to meet off campus (what, no Starbucks around?) and they won't get funds from the university. If you want university funds, especially from a private univeristy, you play by their rules. This has been upheld by the Supreme Court on numerous occasions – usually in favor of private Christian organizations who want to discriminate in their hiring/firing and/or membership policies, including the Boy Scouts. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, you are all boohooing. Can't have it both ways folks!
That was different. That was an organization that was allowed by SCOTUS to have people in their leadership that was according to their own policies. Sadly, this private university is not allowing a different club to organize with their own separate policies. Ultimately, if it goes to court, the courts will ask if govt money is involved. If it is, then they will have to accept any social club, including these christian groups.
Jacob Weber Sorry, but in this case Vanderbilt University is the private institution. As long as any federal dollars it may be receiving are not going to any of the student groups it sponsors, then those groups asking for university money have to abide by university rules. The students are choosing to attend the private university, and can leave of their own free will at any time, they are not being forced to stay there. They must follow the university's rules to get university money. That is what the SCOTUS will support, and has supported.
Joe Gonzalez I doubt that. If they get even one tax dollar, no matter what its for, then they should be held to the 1st amendment. Whats sad is that if the gay group on campus was not allowed to be there because of them being sinful, i bet you would be demanding in a court of law that the school accept them.
Jacob Weber If it were a private institution, as much as I disagree with discrimination, no I would not be calling for a court of law to force the school to accept them. That is one of the characteristics of a private group/institution with its own laws. Why do you think nobody has sued Augusta National Country Club for not yet admitting women? It is private! This has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. Quite frankly, while I agree that all groups should welcome anyone as a member, I firmly disagree with Vanderbilt on allowing anyone to be a leader of these groups. Christian groups should have Christian officers, Jewish groups should have Jewish officers, but both should allow open membership. Open membership allows anyone to join to learn about the religion (or whatever the cause is if the group is not religious). Yes you run the risk of troublemakers joining, but such is life. Limiting leadership makes sense because it ensures that the group is led only by those committed to, entrenched in and well versed in the group's purpose, be it a religion, a charity, a rights group, whatever. It is common sense, and I think Vanderbilt is incorrect. However, it is their right to set their own policies.
As far as receiving any federal dollars, I disagree with you. They may be receiving federal dollars to support their research facilities, for example. That has nothing to do with tuition or student life. There are instances where it can be separate. The law still tips in Vanderbilt's favor.
Interestingly enough, if Vandy were a public institution, this would probabaly not hold, as state universities have not gotten away with this kind of action. The only reason that Vandy gets away with it is because it is a private institution. Is there not some irony in that?
Vanderbilt’s new nondiscrimination policy requires all groups, including religious groups, to accept members of different sexual orientations or faiths and allows them to seek leadership roles.
As a private institution they have the right to set the rules. However, by requiring religious groups to allow persons not of the faith to seek leadership roles it invalidates the purpose of the group. I say vote with your money. Have Christian/Jewish/Moslem donors withdraw their financial support.