Jun 19, 2012
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UPDATE: Mega-dittos to Rush Limbaugh for reading our story on the air Tuesday. Here’s a link to Rush’s commentary.
A group of New York City children banned from singing “God Bless the USA” at a graduation ceremony were heckled by adults when they sang the song at a nearby playground.
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The protest had been organized by parents at PS 90 in Coney Island. They were outraged after principal Greta Hawkins banned kindergartners from performing the song at their graduation ceremony. Staffers said the principal was worried the patriotic anthem might offend other cultures.
She also feared that the Lee Greenwood song would not be age-appropriate for the youngsters – concerns shared by the New York City Dept. of Education.
Among those attending the protest was Rep. Bob Turner (R-NY) who had been invited by parents. Turner is running for the U.S. Senate against Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY).
“I thought it would be a great idea,” Turner said. “The kids were a delight.”
According to video of the incident, boys and girls were waving American flags and singing “God Bless the USA” when adults began swarming and shouting.
They were shouting down the kids as they were singing,” Turner told Fox News Radio. “This was really bad form.”
The website Politicker transcribed some of the protest.
“You Republicans come go to a Republican area and do that, we don’t do that here,” one of the hecklers said. “This is ridiculous, this is sad. This is so crazy. This is sad.”
A Turner staffer can be heard off camera asking the protesters to stop – and to “let the kids sing.”
“The kids don’t even know what they’re singing,” the unidentified protester replied. “They got something you tell them to say. It’s ridiculous. It’s sad, sad, sad. You all are going to burn in hell. You all burn in hell. Shame on you. Shame on you.”
At one point, a tattooed protester cursed.
“You got a right to make noise, I got a right to make noise,” the protester said.
The video shows boys and girls as they began chanting, ‘USA USA” in an attempt to drown out the protesters.
Turner accused the Gillilbrand campaign of orchestrating the hecklers. He said at least one “tracker” from her campaign was present filming the altercation.
“These people were doing some provocative things to get some sort of a news story,” Turner told Fox News Radio. “We can have our political differences, but I thought this was over the top.”
Glen Caplin, a spokesman for the Gillibrand campaign said it was outrageous to think that they had anything to do with the incident.
“This is a bizarrely-false claim,” Caplin said in a statement to Fox News Radio. “No one from our campaign had anything to do with the mayhem of this event. Young schoolchildren know the difference between the truth and make-believe, so it’s too bad Congressman Turner didn’t learn anything from the kids.”
Turner said Gillibrand needs to explain herself.
“That would be a good starting point,” he said.
Todd Starnes is the author of “Dispatches From Bitter America.” Get your copy by clicking here!
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This is utterly disgusting. God bless the USA!
but the are so "tolerant"…and "everything for the chiiiiiiiiildren" – what a caca…
see my post 3 up
GOD BLESS THE USA.
The little kids look stunned and upset… These parents are idiots…
So are you!!! Please go to another country!!!
Debra, you want me to go to another country? Why?
@Debra: Wow, you are a jerk. Shame on you!
There is absolutely nothing controversial about this song unless you hate America and don't want children to like the country they live in. These protesters are sickening. I honestly don't see how you can defend this. The parents thought it was absurd that the kids would not be allowed to sing the song so they put together an event to let the kids sing it. Why would anyone have a problem with it? It is a great song with a very positive message. Do democrats hate America? And what is a "republican area" and why don't you do this here? What is racist about God Bless the USA? The protest makes no sense. It is just mindless hate hurled at children.
No, the people who heckled them are idiots. The parents just had them singing God Bless the USA. It was on a public street and they had the right to. Who'd get mad over kids singing that song anyway? Can't blame the parents for that, but the hecklers.
Debra Swartzlander Vivian is right ,why upset the kids like that!
What's pathetic is Bob Turner using kids as props to prop up his campaign that's going nowhere. This is what happens when politicians pull stunts like this. It's a real shame that the kids has to be involved and feel hurt. Ugly situation all around. Obnoxious parents, obnoxious candidate.
Hey Russell, did you read the article? "Rep. Bob Turner (R-NY) who had been invited by parents". Your priorities are screwed up there buddy. You should be kind of worried that we have in this country enough people who hate what we stand for. They hate freedom and success. They want to tear us down and rebuild us into the Scheisse holes from where they came from.
Hey Russell, did you read the article? "Rep. Bob Turner (R-NY) who had been invited by parents". Your priorities are screwed up there buddy. You should be kind of worried that we have in this country enough people who hate what we stand for. They hate freedom and success. They want to tear us down and rebuild us into the Scheisse holes from where they came from.
I believe Turner was invited. Its the idiot parents that should be ashamed. The kids looked alarmed, and that worries me.
I believe Turner was invited. Its the idiot parents that should be ashamed. The kids looked alarmed, and that worries me.
No wait stop blaming the Parents…..we as a nation should be ashamed that there are A$$holes getting into the faces of those kids. Really!!! We watch how kids are sucked into OWS and have no idea what they are protesting. At least the children understand that a positive song about our nation and feeling patriotic is at risk. Let them see first hand who are enemies are within this country. Let them be shocked before they become shocked with Civil strife like over seas.
Paul Schietinger , our great country stands for freedom of choice and freedom from oppression indoctrination. Forcing children to sing about a 'god' is vile and despicable.
The Principal is being supported by the vast majority of parents in this manner…only a couple of superstitious religious wing nuts are crying about it…
Paul Schietinger .. Liberals never READ the STORY.. they just SPEW….
Russell Schaffer
Turner was invited by the parents, get your facts straight and don't be a hater.
Coward Aubrey
You are vile and despicable. Since when are patriotic songs indoctrination? Tell you what, why don't you run for office and get the separation of church and state to become an amendment to the Constitution if that would shut you up.
Coward Aubrey
You are vile and despicable. Since when are patriotic songs indoctrination? Tell you what, why don't you run for office and get the separation of church and state to become an amendment to the Constitution if that would shut you up.
Vivian Bennett-Cohan
At least these parents are brave enough to make a stand while you sit in your comfort zone and blast them. Lighten up.
Vivian Bennett-Cohan
At least these parents are brave enough to make a stand while you sit in your comfort zone and blast them. Lighten up.
The heckler should've been arrested for disorderly conduct for cussing in front of all those children!
well what we have are people like yourself, Russell Shaffer, who will do anything to destroy America. Blame the republicans, thats your answer for everything. There are increasing number of people who have joined the "socialist dictator's regime, and want to destroy the very freedoms and liberties, that this great Country has give the citizens. You all want something for nothing, you hate God, you hate the peoples love of their country, so much that you are becoming the citizens of HATE. These kids and their parents are to be proud of what they tried to do. I can only hope that come Nov. we will have a new beginning, with a new president, who will know how great America really is, unlike this administration whose only accomplishment is to divide our country and put it into a financial state from which we will never recover. God Bless The USA
Comrade Schaeffer. I suppose you approve children in the schools singing praises to Barack Hussein Obama???
Liberals pretend to be tolerant, but they are really the most bigoted, arrogant and intolerant people you meet.
If those protesternites…would have stayed out of it…evrything would have been ok…
if you..yes you…don't like America…..GET OUT>>>OUT OUT OUT NOWWWWWWWWW
If those protesternites…would have stayed out of it…evrything would have been ok…
if you..yes you…don't like America…..GET OUT>>>OUT OUT OUT NOWWWWWWWWW
Seriously Russell Shaffer? Just another Liberal troll making stupid comments on a conservative blog. Did you even read the article? THE PARENTS ORGANIZED THIS AND INVITED REP. TURNER. Is it clear enough for you now that I yelled it?
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
There is absolutely nothing controversial about this song unless you hate America and don't want children to like the country they live in. These protesters are sickening. I honestly don't see how you can defend this. The parents thought it was absurd that the kids would not be allowed to sing the song so they put together an event to let the kids sing it. Why would anyone have a problem with it? It is a great song with a very positive message. Do democrats hate America? And what is a "republican area" and why don't you do this here? What is racist about God Bless the USA? The protest makes no sense. It is just mindless hate hurled at children.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4
Read the story Hank. And then choke on your own words, please.
That article says absolutely nothing. There are no facts, no circumstances, nothing of any substance. What exactly did you think it was going to prove? I read through it several times trying to find anything of consequence. It is sad that she got hate mail from the KKK, provided she didn't send it to herself. But the rest of it was meaningless. And what does any of that crap have to do with parents and children singing in the park? The fact that you based all of your hate rants on something so inane is just sad. Log off delete this account. You've destroyed all credibility. Reinvent your identity and try not to be so gullible in the future.
James, from the article in the link that I posted:
"…Ms. Hawkins’s rationale for excising the song, Jessica Scaperotti, a spokeswoman for the Education Department said, had to do with the belief that its opening lines, in their suggestion of dramatic misfortune, might unsettle 5-year-old minds. In the same way you might not want a stage full of kindergartners to perform Merle Haggard’s ballads of loneliness, you might opt to have them skip a song that introduces visions of sudden and annihilating material adversity: “If tomorrow all the things were gone/I’d worked for all my life…” "
Now, that's pretty clear to anyone who can either read, or who has a brain. Perhaps you lack either? Your embarrassing interaction on this forum shames both you and the Conservative "base" which you represent.
Look in the mirror when you accuse others of "Hate". Your hatred blinds you to facts and truth. Though you pretend to a civil manner, but in fact, your very replies here are in fact contemptuous retorts which would seem to be based in some alternate reality if we on the Left were not intelligent enough to recognize the insult of denying Truth while asking for endless clarifications of unrelated and unfounded allegations.
You have embarrassed yourself. Unfortunately, the best advice I could give you to try to silence the voices of Truth which assault your delicate sensibilities and haunt your dreams is the advice you yourself have given. Go to the court house. Change your name. Get plastic surgery. Re-invent yourself and enter the Commenter Protection Program. You're ruined.
LOL!!!!
that just made me laugh. I read what Ms. Scaperotti had to say. I doubt that she spoke the truth, but it still doesn't matter. Even if that is the true reason the song was cut, I don't care. It is a weak argument. I disagree that the song's themes are inappropriate for children. Apparently the parents also disagreed. This has never been about why she cut the song. It is about the fact that the song was cut. It is about the fact that some people think it was stupid and wrong to cut the song. The motive doesn't matter. I have no idea why you are obsessed with this. You want to accept that statement as being true, go ahead. It changes nothing. Rather than trying to assess motives, just stick to the facts. The song was cut. People got upset. There was open disagreement with the decision aired publicly. As a show of defiance to the decision, parents and children gathered to sing the song off school grounds where the principal has no say in what they do. Then a bunch of jerks showed up and attempted to disrupt the song and prevent it from being sung while shouting curse words and professing hateful opinions like yours. This is a free speech case. None of the other BS matters at all.
Looks to me like the kids were haveing fun. All the detractors did was make it more new worthy. Not saying I would have let my kid Participate but I don't think it was a bad thing.
Pure scum!
You're a little bitch Russell
The kids did a fantastic job! Even with the whiners, screaming in their ears. I just don't understand these people. What country do they think we live in? They also have a problem with our flag? I don't get it. Plus, they pass this ignorance to their children. These children were wonderful and I would have let my daughter participate with no problem. I know what country I live in and I am grateful that I was born here and I will shout it to the world, if I have to. God bless the USA!
I can't understand why anyone would be protesting GOD BLESS THE USA ?? What ideas that are in that song do you NOT agree with ?? And if you do not agree with the ideas in that song, why are you still here ??? I was VERY proud of these little kids who showed strength and courage when faced by these ignorant adults !!! In fact it was very hard to tell who the kids were and who the grown ups were from this clip !!! Honestly people , you are screaming at American kids who are signing a song about being PROUD to be Americans, first of all, and second… you are screaming at 5 year olds trying to sing a song?? Really? where in the helll did you get your perspective from? Because you should go back and ask for a refund !!! And then get some more !!! You were yelling at little kids !!MY GOD , if that is what the left has to offer, they can keep it !!!
John Rivera these would be the same ones who are against bullying~
These are the same type of people that when a man on the street interviews them about basic American civics questions and who the key players are in Congress are absolutely clueless and have absolutely no understanding of America's founding principles, oh but they know all the talking points regarding Sarah Palin. They talk about rights but only the people that agree with them get to exercise them the rest must be shouted down and censored, what are these people really afraid of? Afraid of derailing the welfare state meal ticket, afraid of being required to be responsible for themselves, indoctrinated in history revisionism that paints America as the oppressor standing in the way of the leftist utopian dream? The sad part is that these people if required to articulate publicly their worldview they couldn't do it because they have no true educational foundation for it based in facts and reason, it's all programming garbage in garbage out!
If you have never done it Google "Red Skelton Pledge Of Allegiance" it's on YouTube experience what Americans used to think and what patriotism is about. Patriotism isn't about a geographical location it's the understanding and love and allegiance to a philosophy. People are probably asking themselves what happened? The short answer is that good people stood by and did nothing as the very foundation of our culture was being undermined and systematically destroyed. God help us! But as a nation we've turned our backs on him too, it's connected.
John Rivera What a previous generation understood about America and patriotism told only in a way that Red Skelton could tell it. The principle that Red is talking about would be completely alien to the protesters shouting down the children and in a way I pity these protesters they have bought into a lie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM
@ Sherry Cesnajke … HIGH FIVE !!! You are so right !!! But kid on kid bullying is WAY different than Adult on kid !!! They really look pathetic doing and yelling what they are doing and yelling !!! Its seriously insane , and ridiculous !!!
Mike Nelson : Thanks for the Red Skelton info. You are absolutely right…. as our public schools slowly and deliberately were being taken over by liberal teachers, with liberal attitudes, not interested in open dialogue or open exchange of ideas, just programming our kids to think exactly like they do , OR ELSE, we are starting to see the sad fruits of their labor. (the many young college age kids today who grew up in that system since the late 90's, who now are the general group making up the OCCUPY movement). What I still can't get over is that there were adults, some old enough to be grand parents, yelling at these five year olds, were only trying to sing a song about being PROUD TO BE AMERICANS !! What in the hell is wrong with that ??? If those people really believe that singing PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN is wrong, and punishable by going to hell (as one of the people were yelling )… then… they are ALL living in the wrong country !!! They should get on the next plane, train, bus, boat, or raft leaving this country.. and do us all a favor… DON'T COME BACK !!! GOD BLESS THOSE KIDS.. AND GOD BLESS THE USA !!!
I love Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegience. A thousand and one thumbs up for your comment-you nailed it.
John, apparently you're among the Ignorant who either don't know, or don't WANT to know the timeline of how this non-issue was turned into a cynically-manipulated-and-sold "cause" for the Rightwing agenda machine. Here—educate yourself and learn something. This story had N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with either God, religion, patriotism, or anything esle as noble or profound. It had to do with a teacher (who is probably a mother herself) making a judgment call about having five-year-olds sing a song that starts with a line that might scare them because it's a little too profound and "conceptual" for young minds with great imagination. "If tomorrow all the things were gone that I'd worked for all my life…"–THAT can scare young kids to imagine the end of everything they know.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4
Please get off this false interpretation of what you've been sold. There are people in the media who are very deliberately stoking your anger so that you're so emotional that you turn off your brain and power of discernment.
"I can't understand why anyone would be protesting GOD BLESS THE USA " – of course you cant, because you love the idea of your invisible magic man in the sky waving his magic hand and letting sparkling blessing dust fall down on the people like rain….on the other hand, some people actually respect REALITY, and the reality is that God doesnt exist, nor do we want theocracy or your god in our schools. If you dont like it, then quit the secular schools and join a religious school. Keep your god out of our schools and we will keep our commons sense out of your church.
You totally ROCK, Jeremy. Well spoken!
John Rivera – We protest it because we dont want your religion. We dont want it forced on us, and quite frankly we would prefer that you keep it to yourself. Every time you get the urge to talk about your faith in Jesus, please, fight that shit back because we dont want to fucking hear it. Mixing your religion with patriotism is a trick that only works on people like you…we can see through it. If the children were singing "real americans are atheists", and you opposed them doing such, then I get to question your love of america right? Oh, Im not allowed to play the same games?! Yeah, now you know why we dont want it in our schools.
Zizzer… and Jeremy… the song is titled PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN !!! What is so wrong about that concept, that grown adults felt compelled to heckle five year olds while they were signing it? Watch the video again, because apparently you did not see it the first time. There is no defense for their actions,[ unless you think its so wrong for anyone (young or old ) to sing about having PRIDE for the USA] … that it warrants grown ups to verbally heckle and chastise kids… five year old kids in this case… for doing so !!! That is my point !!! If that is ok in the world of the liberal left… yelling and heckling little five year old kids for singing a song that professes PRIDE in the USA… then the LEFT is messed up !!! PERIOD !!! That is my point !! Nothing more , nothing less.. the kids were not the ones out of line here.. the people screaming at them while they were trying to sing were !!!
John Rivera – there you go again trying to implant "left" or "right" into this situation. No. this is clearly about respect for the first amendment and for our secular institutions. We don want religion in our schools, and because the religious groups CONSTANTLY fight tooth and nail to convert our schools into a church we who respect and defend the first amendment must not allow a single slip, because if we allow this to happen, next week they will force our children to sing bible hymns. Let this serve as a warning..ZERO TOLERANCE for encroachment of religion into our secular schools. If you dont like it, then pull your kids out and put them in a religious school.
John Rivera – I also wonder if you would have the same defensive reaction if you saw a group of Arabian kids on prayer rugs singing "Allah bless the usa". would you be praising them, and wanting your kids to join in? Would you question peoples love of America if they protested the obvious Islamic slant of the song? Open your mind for just one second and you will finally understand why this was protested. If you support the first amendment, you will understand what i am talking about.
Jeremy Martin Jeremy.. kids singing about having pride-in and for blessing the USA.. no matter what their religious order is, is fine by me. I'm not injecting anything left of right… but I'm here to tell you the people who protested and yelled at those kids were from an extreme left wing group, according to the report. Those were NOT right wing people. and if they had been right wingers.. screaming at kids singing GOD BLESS THE USA.. OR ALLAH BLESS THE USA.. I would rebuke them as well for those actions. THEY ARE BOTH OUT OF LINE !!! These kids were singing a song about pride in the USA… PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN… they were not making a political statement ! And you damn well know that the people yelling at those kids were from a LEFT wing group, because no right wing group would scream at kids for singing about having pride in this great nation of ours! As for your ZERO TOLERANCE attitude , are you to tell me that any principal should never allow for the singing of GOD BLESS AMERICA? Because the word GOD is in the title??? The fact is, GOD is a major part of the making of this country. GOD's name has been used in prayer by many leaders of our great nation. Go check out FDR's speech on the day after D-DAY !!! you tube… link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-weBUzQleo So in your book, FDR was a cook too for invoking GOD's name in our hour of need when our brave troops faced the evil of the Nazi's in the last century's most important war??? My point is, GOD BLESS THE USA is nothing more than a song about patriotism and feelings of pride for this great nation. And GOD BLESS AMERICA has been sung in our public schools for decades!! It obviously did NOT do you any harm or me !!! So why be so upset about it !! And by the same token, if you are about maintaining a ZERO TOLERANCE policy, then we need to hear you scream about the public schools in the country that are ALLOWING Muslim kids more access to their prayer needs during school hours than other Jewish or Christian groups! Where is the ZERO TOLERANCE out cry from the left in that situation ??? LINK : http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-25-muslim-special-treatment-from-schools_N.htm
John, I got no problem with the song, but you're being manipulated and lied to–this whole stupid issue that's been completely represented by the Rightwing puppeteers had NOTHING to do with "God", nor "Patriotism" in the FIRST place.
Do yourself a favor–read this report on how this turned into the greatest scam that I've seen in a long time. Man, are you and your ideological constituents being PLAYED here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4
And can I state for the record that I think it's horrible that these protesters were screaming at little kids, BUT MAYBE the parents shouldn't have USED their kids to promote their agenda in the first place? I mean, I couldn't see MY parents dragging me into their ideoogical battle at that age–could YOU??!!
The first amendment says the government cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion. Forbidding the word God from being used in public places is the very essence of prohibiting the free exercise of religion. "Let this serve as a warning..ZERO TOLERANCE for encroachment of religion into our secular schools. If you dont like it, then pull your kids out and put them in a religious school." You are basically saying that anyone who freely expresses their religious beliefs or even uses words that atheists associate with religion should be expelled from public school and not allowed to be part of society. You obviously have no idea what the first amendment is all about. This sort of intolerance, segregation, and tyranny is revolting. People are free to believe anything they want and are free to express it verbally, in writing, or publicly in groups to petition the government for redress of grievances.
James, once again, for the umpteenth time, this issue is not–AND NEVER WAS–about Religion. It was about a "parenting" call by a woman who was concerned about childrens' sensibilities. You keep flogging your own personal agenda which–not coincidentally–dovetails perfectly with the misrepresented agenda of these Conservative manipulators.
THEY were wrong; YOU are wrong; and the truth is that when "public" is "public institution", then–YES, quite positively YES–the promotion of "God" IS–and has been repeatedly confirmed by multiple court rulings–out of bounds.
NOT THAT THIS EVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH "GOD" IN THE FIRST PLACE-but you keep flogging this donkey and calling it a horse.
Zizzer Why do you think I was talking to you? Jeremy is the one who is all about ending free speech and instituting an atheist dictatorship. You seem to like that idea, but I still wasn't talking to you. Get over yourself. No one is listening to you. Your crackpot theories just sound like a load. I've repeatedly given you a sound analysis of constitutional law. I don't care about your crazy conspiracy theories. Let it go and talk about something relevant. You know, If my objective analysis meshes with "these Conservative manipulators" and I haven't read what you think they did, then maybe they are the ones who make sense and you are the one who doesn't get it.
James Lightfoot – Just look at James' avatar Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz. Sure looks like a con man to me. He will not believe anything unless Fox news tells hims its okay. Imagine that…me…a freethinking musician ending free speech and instituting an atheist dictatorship…LMFAO…James, you are a fucking douchwaffle that wears his ass for a hat.
Yes, James–were but it that you could silence the voice of Truth, eh? Sorry, but I refuse to allow you to continuously WILLFULLY misrepresent the facts to suit your ignorant agenda. Once more, for the record:
"Ms. Hawkins’s rationale for excising the song, Jessica Scaperotti, a spokeswoman for the Education Department said, had to do with the belief that its opening lines, in their suggestion of dramatic misfortune, might unsettle 5-year-old minds. In the same way you might not want a stage full of kindergartners to perform Merle Haggard’s ballads of loneliness, you might opt to have them skip a song that introduces visions of sudden and annihilating material adversity: “If tomorrow all the things were gone/I’d worked for all my life…”
The issue has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the dead horse which you shamefully continue to abuse and beat into dust. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION. Your brain is stuck in "stupid" gear. Please re-read the newspaper clip that I posted and enlighten your mind. You are wallowing and floundering in ideological idiocy.
Shame on you. You embarrass yourself continuously in spite of every effort to educate you.
Doesn't matter if you're talking to me or not, James. We can't let you go about inventing your own facts and promoting them as truth. You are entitled to your own misinformed opinion, but not your own made-up "facts".
You've been manipulated and you don't even know it. Or maybe being manipulated and lied to feels "normal" to you by now? In any case, you've become your own deception. Time after time again it has been proven to you that the this issue has NOTHING to do with the horse you relentlessly keep beating–that garbage about "Religious freedom" blah, blah. blah. When it has been pointed out to you, you move the goalposts to this canard about "singing a song".
The tacit admission, of course, that you are afraid of the truth. YOu cannot even address the fact that the principal stopped this song because she was making a responsible decision as an adult. When you address that issue, you will regain your integrity, Until then, you're simply a parrot repeating falsehoods ad nauseum.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz – why do you insist on trying to reach James…he is unreachable…eventually he will claim you are an atheist Islamist Nazi Communist tyrant who wants to replace Jesus with kiddie porn…there is no talking to con men such as he and there never was any chance. He dont give a shit about being consistent or factual…he only cares that you do what he tells you to do. Every thing else is just jibber jabber filler or the typical use of child psychology. Authoritarians such as he enjoy manipulating people with words. Words are not about logic or reason or even to make accurate sense to these types of people like James. No. Words are merely a tool to get people to do what you tell them to do….nothing more, nothing else matters. Ziz, move on to better things instead of wasting your time with this dude.
I'm willing to concede that she believed she was doing the right thing. I think she was wrong, but I believe she may have thought it was a good reason. The parents at the park disagreed with her decision. They believed they were doing the right thing. You disagree. It is a free country. People have a right to disagree and express dissenting points of view. The point remains that they were singing a song in the park and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact that you accept that pathetic explanation of why the song was cut from the program based on a statement given by another person to a mind-numbingly stupid reporter writing an inane article about the imagined victimization of a school administrator who continually puts politics and ideology ahead of education makes you look gullible. I find it dubious at best. But even if every stupid word of that stupid article you keep linking to were true it would not change the fact that the parents did nothing wrong. They had every right to express a difference of opinions even if it were politically motivated.
James, …….(deep sigh); which is it now? Are you "willing to concede that she believed she was doing the right thing" or are you discounting the report "based on a statement given by another person to a mind-numbingly stupid reporter writing an inane article about the imagined victimization of a school administrator who continually puts politics and ideology ahead of education ". SERIOUSLY—I don't know if even YOU know where you come down on this. You need to calm down–your emotion is obfuscating even your OWN brain about this.
And let me ask you this–where do you get YOUR information that this had anything to do with what YOU believe it was based upon–the whole "religious" aspect? I'll tell you where–from a Fox idiot who–TOO CONVENIENTLY–has a book to sell that alleges a "War on religion".
Now James…I'm not claiming o be a know it all, but even YOU have to agree that something there STINKS.
And I should point out that my belief in the veracity of the teacher's original motive is NOT ONLY based upon the report of her intention, but ALSO based upon the report of how this whole story originated in the FIRST place. The article I cited not only reported her statement, but also the highly suspicious and unlikely attribution of the cynical invention of this "anti-God" charge to a certain "newspaper" and media outlet. The source for that attribution was NEVER cited nor confirmed. So who's looking "gullible" now?
Seriously–not to do a "gotcha" on you, but think of that quite seriously.
The source doesn't matter. The motive doesn't matter. none of it matters. I have no idea what you imagine the sinister motives behind this were, but even if you delusions were all true, it still wouldn't matter. It was a peaceful and lawful assembly of people expressing what they believed. They were not rude. They didn't insult or degrade anyone. They were out there to prove a point and didn't hurt anyone. Why you are so determined to vilify them, I simply don't understand. But you can go ahead and hate them if you want. You sound utterly insane and irrational to me but you have a right to your insane and irrational opinion. Go scream at the dirt if it makes you happy. It would make as much sense as anything else you've said.
James. you're seriously becoming unhinged, and I cringe for you at the sheer transparency of your self-contradiction and inability to think beyond the spoonfed talking point when challenged.
"The source doesn't matter"? Oh yes, but it DOES indeed, James–for if it did not, you wouldn't have chastised me for what you just believed was an irreputable source. And the motive doesn't matter? Well then, if motive didn't matter, you wouldn't be believing this cynical proposition that there is some kind of "War on religion", now would you?
James, you are making less and less sense the more you chatter. If you seriously "have no idea what you imagine the sinister motives behind this were" just go up to my last post where I told you EXACTLY what the motive is–to sell you a book, and to sell you a false presumption of persecution.
Now, if you can type with a straight face that "even if you delusions were all true, it still wouldn't matter" then you are really at the point where you're not even thinking rationally, now are you? For if it IS true (and I allege that it most certainly IS true) then you are becoming hysterical and undone for a lie, and a cynical manipulation of your sensibilities. So……that wouldn't matter then? What a weak and strange set of principles you have then…?
I saw no ads for book sales. No one told me to be outraged. I'm willing to look at all sides of this, but you still seem like a lunatic. What are you doing if not selling a false presumption of persecution? You are desperately trying to convince me that this song is forcing you to practice a religion against your will. I don't think even you are stupid enough to believe that. So I have to assume you know you are lying. But I don't care about that. You have a right to lie to me or lie to yourself. You can try to manipulate people if you want. I still don't care. Truth is subjective. I'm saying the motivation doesn't matter because the actions were lawful. I really don't care why they thought they needed to do it, but they did it and it was a harmless act. You can pretend to be outraged all you want. Eventually you will know you are deceiving yourself, or maybe you won't and I still won't care. You are whining like a child because you think someone told a lie. Get over it. People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about. Either you have been lied to petty hard and manipulated into this warped ideology you profess or you are just insane. Either way, I can't fix what is wrong with you.
James Lightfoot "People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
"People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
"People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
Tells me EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW about you, James. Thank you for the inadvertent admission. I live for moments like this, when people show their true colors.
THANK YOU.
James Lightfoot "People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
"People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
"People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."
Tells me EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW about you, James. Thank you for the inadvertent admission. I live for moments like this, when people show their true colors.
THANK YOU.
you're welcome. perhaps you can assimilate that information and become a part of the real world some day.
Hmmmm..the "real world"??
Now, would that be the one that I inhabit, where things like Truth and Integrity actually matter and hold sway, or….
..the one you live in where "People lie all the time and it is nothing to throw a fit about."???
I think I know which one I'll stay in, James….
If you think everything you hear is the truth you are lying to yourself.
Thanks Sandi Lyn Bunch, for liking my message !!! Its been interesting to see all the "likes" that my comment has received. Also want to say… Thank you Sandi Lyn Bunch for your service !!! God Bless you and all our Troops for the job you do and sacrifices you make to help keep us safe !!!
I'm not saying that, James. I'm not naive, but at least I know not to believe everything I hear without a little bit of research and objective research.
AND–more importantly–unlike you, apparently?–I am not willing to overlook lying as "nothing to throw a fit about" especially when those lies are egregious representations of important facts and truths with an aim to manipulate and influence. There is no greater lie in the world. And the Rightwing employs this tactic regularly.
Wow the hecklers all look like upstanding citizens…lmao!
Sandi Lyn Bunch
I could of swore I saw those America hating pieces of evil denouncing America from foreign shores on the nightly news casts.
I think those few brain dead humans most likely were mad at that school for getting kicked out in that kindergarten class when they were younger. They explains their mentality. lol
Ironic that Bob Turner is using Latino children for this phony act of patrotism.
Didn't see that the PARENTS invited him.. did ya….
Joshua Pierre
If you took the time to read the article, the parents invited him. Why call his patriotism phony there son? His patriotism is more real than yours.
I read the entire article and I know political theater when i see it.
A Democrat.. uh huh…
Why are you here then Pierre…feel free to get the fuck out!
Kids and families exercising their rights and their voice which was stifled by an American-hating left wing principal…. Problematic for you? Only okay when folks like OWS trash parks?
Pierre my left nut is more intelligent than you. You are just another give me handouts, while I sit on my ass, drain on this society. I see the idiots you value as mentors. Please by all means exercise your freedom and go somewhere else. No one is stopping you. You won't implement your agenda I suggest you get a space on the boat before November…
Joshua Pierre
And I know ignorance in dark shades and a black shirt when it speaks.
Hank Vonk I wonder who called the parents and orchestrated this fiasco?….uh huh….
Obviously you don't because I bet you voted for Obama and that's a political opera!
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
There is absolutely nothing controversial about this song unless you hate America and don't want children to like the country they live in. These protesters are sickening. I honestly don't see how you can defend this. The parents thought it was absurd that the kids would not be allowed to sing the song so they put together an event to let the kids sing it. Why would anyone have a problem with it? It is a great song with a very positive message. Do democrats hate America? And what is a "republican area" and why don't you do this here? What is racist about God Bless the USA? The protest makes no sense. It is just mindless hate hurled at children.
The police should have called the parole officers. The protesters would have hauled-ass.
It's pretty obvious that there is no 'god'. If there were, she would never have allowed anything as vile and useless as conservatives to pollute her universe….
I used to be a great little leftie just like you, so I can't blame you too much. I'm just glad I escaped.
Spinal Tap IS a good flic, though.
^^ Punchline to a very bad joke.
Robert Briggs
The joke being Coward Aubrey.
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
If I were a Democrat, I would have ignored the entire event. 70% of GOP primary voters in NY don't even know who these candidates really are.
So you admit Liberal voters are STUPID as well?? Well, at least you got one thing right!
YOU'VE BEEN PLAYED, Hank–read the article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=2
Talk about "stupid" and gullible. This is a completely manufactured, entirely UNTRUE "controversy", designed to manipulate gullible Conservative voters like you.
Read the article. Oh yes–it's an eye opener.
You Republicans come go to a Republican area and do that, we don’t do that here,” one of the hecklers said. “This is ridiculous, this is sad. This is so crazy. This is sad.”.
so the DEMOCRATS there ADMIT they are UNPATRIOTIC? How nice…
True love of country has nothing to do with singing mindless songs about god and country. Actions speak louder than words. republicans think that blind idiotic nationalism = patriotism. The truth is patriotism is appreciating your country for what it is, and trying to improve the things that are wrong.
Socialism RUINS every nation that tries it… YOUR PLAN is????
Socialism RUINS every nation that tries it… YOUR PLAN is????
Nick Wrong
Your constant ranting and raving on the topic of God and religion is mindless. No need to constantly be sounding like a broken record proclaiming your hate for this every time a news item on the topic comes out, because I'm sure you made your point and it's getting old.
Nick Wright you are splitting hairs here. Nothing wrong with singing a simple (albeit somewhat cheesy) song.
LMAO ,DUMBOCRAT IDIOTS
OK NICK… I agree we should ALL work together to imrove what we can with our nation. SO.. tell me, how is YELLING and SCREAMING at 5 year olds, while they are trying to sing a song that says GOD BLESS THE USA , how is that going to help improve our nation? These protestors were directly yelling and screaming at five year olds !!! How is that going to help improve what is wrong in our country???
Nick wrong..I'm so sorry you don't have a place to call home…where are you from..oh it don't matter guess they didn't want you…with your attitude I can see why..just saying..
Nick Wrong- thanks for explaining what patriotism is doof..
Nick Wright NICK, DOES IT FEEL GOOD TO BE A IDIOT?
JUST ASKING
Nick Wright Where on earth do you get off saying that 'Republicans think that blind nationalism = patriotism'? My husband puts on a uniform that allows people like you to voice their opinion — no matter how wrong or misguided — and he and his fellow soldiers know more about patriotism than you ever will.
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
@Melissa Galloway … thank you for your husband's service !!! And since this post is really about Lee Greenwood's song, here is a link that I believe best expresses what I think about when I hear it . Say thank you to your husband on my behalf and enjoy the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZf619DIpo
Larry Fisher can't even master the english language and he is calling people idiots! This is allsum.
Nick Wright:So those patriots trying to shout down kids signing is showing your love of this country .And banning a song about America because it might offend other cultures is love of country .Funny how god bless the usa is offensive to other cultures who are now living in this country .
Moron.
These protesters, such outstanding model citizens, the ideal role models for kids……WELL PISS ON THEM AMERICA HATING MISCREANTS. God Bless America, God Bless these kids and their parents. It's about time that people start making a stand against these left nutted buffoons
AWESOME POST JOEL !!! From one Rivera to another !!! high five bro !!! GOD BLESS THE USA !!! so proud of these kids who shouted USA USA USA .. BACK at the ignorant "adults" who were so f****king rude while they tried to sing !!! VERY proud of these kids !!!
Right back atcha. America may not mean nothing anymore to some people, but it does to most. I just wish that if these undesireables have such a big problem with America, that they would just simply leave for these communist countries or to Canada where they make it a habit to take in cowards from from the states.
Once again high five bro !!! AGREE 100% !! Like my grandfather once said.. to a group of communitsts in the 1970's, you should SUPPORT the country you live in, or , live in the country you support !!!
Your grandfather had it right! I will have to remember that quote.
Joel Rivera You're a clueless too, just parroting meaningless slogans out of contextl—this has nothing at all whatsoever to do with "supporting the USA". Read the story that your buddy Howard posted– http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=2 -this is about sensitive, good parenting.
Your puppet-assters turned this into a faux-outrage by (what else?!) distorting and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of the case. YOU'VE BEEN P-L-A-Y-E-D, FOOL
Only one problem…it may seem small but it is actually pretty big…There is ZERO evidence that your god is nothing more than a fictional character in a dusty old religious tome. Your God doesnt exist, and many people every day are finding that out through science and common sense. They dont want your religious bullcrap in the public schools, and I dont blame them. If you dont like it, then go to a religious school, otherwise stop whinning.
Zizzer Zazzer Jizz
One last time, I don't talk to cartoons.
dont confuse Christianity with America, they are mutually exclusive no matter how much you try to argue otherwise. If you dont like our secualr government, then I suggest you move to Ireland. I hear they let religion and politics mix over there…sure, you may have to dodge the rocks and the malotov cocktails, but you will be able to force your version of religion on people all you want over there. Over here, on the other hand, you WILL meet resistence and you WILL lose. So keep your superstitions to yourself or get out of my country.
Jeremy Martin
Save your whiny atheist BS for some bastard who actually gives a damn tough guy.
Jeremy Martin
You're going to have to put a bullet in my head because I, nor like minded people aren't budging. So go ahead, if you think your balls are inflated enough, I dare you to pull the trigger, otherwise your words carry no weight, and it should be you removing your carcass and settling in atheist infested communist China. So come on, grow a pair, look for me and put a gun to my head and don't coward up sweetheart.
Joel, your pseudo-macho posturing is REALLY getting old. It must be quite a burden to tote around–that inferiority complex and chip on your shoulder? You're more pumped full of yourself than AHHHnold was at his prime. What a weenie. Only under-endowed weenies feel the need to project their false machismo in such constant commentary as you. And not only once, but TWO posts to the astute Jeremy Martin?! Man, what a burden…
Joel Rivera "Save your whiny atheist BS for some bastard who actually gives a damn tough guy" – Im not whinning. I am stating facts. If you try to push your religion into public schools, you WILL be heckled. You WILL be opposed. You WILL be taken to court. And you WILL lose. The laws are very clear, and you could have an ARMY of lawyers on your side just against me without any lawyers and I would STILL WIN against you. So stop your whinning and respect the laws of the land or GTFO.
Germ Martin
By the way, have you burned down any churches lately? You look like the bigoted type who would. Tell you what, just like I told another poster, I'm going to tell you — run for office and fight for the seperation of church and state to be a Constitutional amendment, then ban all songs, patriotic or otherwise that mention God; ban the use of the cross as a public/private display; close down churches and criminalize those hat would congregate in homes; make any usage of the phrase, "God bless you/ God bless America, punishable with a prison sentence; remove any reference to God off of our currency and age old documents and remove the 10 Commandment off the supreme court. If that would make you stop whining then have at it otherwise you're going to have to learn tolerance.i
You think you are the only kind of people that can resort to violence? Or that you are the only kind of people who have and know how to use guns? Yet I should have expected this. Most people on the right, when they are losing the discussion, resort to talks of violence and shooting guns in hopes that fear will stop the conversation. I merely laugh at it. I dont pull triggers over things such as this, but I betting that you would consider doing it. You havent the slightest idea what atheism or communism is do you? i dont pull triggers over stuff like this. I get educated and take people like you to court and I win everytime without needing a lawyer. the laws are clear.
Germ Martin
You strike me as the type who would resort to violence if you cant get your way. You cant get rid of people like me so you are just going to have to try harder. You could be as educated as you claim to be and still be an idiot. Now as for the topic of this story, its about a principal taking issues with a patriotic song just because it mentions God and yanking it so as not to offend cultures/foreigners. So if we cant teach kids to love their country and be patriotic, then do we teach them to hate it or not give a damn because some may be offended? If people want to see this song as religious, which it isnt, thats on them, but its just a patriotic song that harms no one, except maybe whiny crybaby's with thin skin. Songs like that have been sung in schools for decades long before you even learned how to wipe your own ass. People had no problem with these songs until now in these twisted and politically charged times. You say to take myself and my religion out of "your" country? Well Im sorry, but you paid not one damn dime for this country, and the title of ownership is not in your damn name. Its just as much my country as it is yours, and I know that there are athiests out there, unlike you, who really dont care to bitch about something like this and would leave it alone. No one is trying to force anything on anyone, and if people do get that idea, then instead of huffing and puffing, they should cover their ears or not participate. Its their right whether they want to or not. Like I said before, make the seperation of church and state a constitutional amendment if it'll help you stop crying and get your way. Now dont you have a Klan meeting to go to?
Jeremy, do you realize you that you are trying to force everyone to follow your religious beliefs? You are effectively trying to make atheism the established state religion and punish anyone who refuses to follow it. You have no comprehension of what freedom of religion is. Freedom of religion means everyone is free to believe, practice and express any faith at all at any time. Another person expressing their faith in no way forces you to adopt their faith. It is not cramming their religion down your throat. However by forcing people to not make expressions of faith, that is exactly what you are doing. You are cramming atheism down their throats. Making all religions illegal is no different from making all but one religion illegal. It is just a theocracy dedicated to atheism. Hearing someone sing "God Bless the U.S.A." doesn't compel you to believe in God or to love the USA. It is simply an expression of their belief. I a free society, everyone is free to express their beliefs whether you agree with them or not. The society you want to create, where all people of faith are forced to leave the country is not free at all.
Jeremy, do you realize you that you are trying to force everyone to follow your religious beliefs? You are effectively trying to make atheism the established state religion and punish anyone who refuses to follow it. You have no comprehension of what freedom of religion is. Freedom of religion means everyone is free to believe, practice and express any faith at all at any time. Another person expressing their faith in no way forces you to adopt their faith. It is not cramming their religion down your throat. However by forcing people to not make expressions of faith, that is exactly what you are doing. You are cramming atheism down their throats. Making all religions illegal is no different from making all but one religion illegal. It is just a theocracy dedicated to atheism. Hearing someone sing "God Bless the U.S.A." doesn't compel you to believe in God or to love the USA. It is simply an expression of their belief. I a free society, everyone is free to express their beliefs whether you agree with them or not. The society you want to create, where all people of faith are forced to leave the country is not free at all.
James, here's the salient point that you are conveniently overlooking–YOU CAN sing your song, your children can sing your song, you can sing your song all over the USA without fail or censure.
YOU JUST CAN"T ASK A PUBLIC INSTITUTION TO SING YOUR SONG. Because the PUBLIC institution represents people who may not share your creed, or some who don't share your beliefs at ALL. "PUBLIC" = " ALL the people".
Nobody's stopped you from singing in your church or home, have they?
Are we good on that?
Joel Rivera Joel, you shame yourself with the depth of your willful ignorance!
How many times has it been pointed out here that this issue was NEVER ABOUT a "objecting to the word "God" in the song?!?!
IT WAS ABOUT OBJECTING TO THE CONCEPT OF LOSING EVERYTHING YOU OWN IN AN INSTANT. Are you just stubborn, or STUPID?!
If you can read, read the truth which has eluded you for so long!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4
THAT'S HE TRUTH THAT YOU CONTINUE TO MISREPRESENT LIKE THE PERFECT TOOL THAT YOU ARE!!
James Lightfoot – Sadly that line of child psychology you spewed out may convince you, but it only makes me question your level of intelligence. So let me get this straight, you HONETLY believe that if we dont allow christians to enforce their religion within secular schools, then we are defacto enforcing atheism? You HONESTLY think this is a sound argument? you also make a flat out lie in my name that I am trying to make all religions illegal or that I am for forcing religious people out of this country. I do not appreciate your lying or even suggesting that I would do such a thing. My mother is christian and I support her right to that belief. Suggesting that you can have a "theocracy dedicated to atheism" just screams to me that you dont know what those words mean. I highly suggest that you go online and study the basic definition of the words you use before you use them again.
I always find it sad that atheists don't understand that atheism is a religious belief based on faith that there is no God. It is no different from having faith that there is a God. It is a deeply held belief about God whether it is a positive or negative belief. Being allowed to say the word God in a public place does not enforce a religion. It simply expresses a religious belief. Expression is not compulsion. When you try to control what people can or cannot say, you are a tyrant. You are stepping on the right to freedom of speech, not just freedom of religion. A free society must be one in which people can express themselves freely. Whether they are in school, in a park, or in congress, people must be free to believe what they want and say what they want about it.
I don't care if you believe that space aliens are going to make the cockroaches rise up an hurl humanity into the sun. I you want to talk about it, you can. I'm not going to start believing it just because you say it. Did hearing the words to "God Bless the USA" force you to be a Christian? I don't think it did. So why are you so afraid of it?
James Lightfoot – Look man, the word "atheism" means EXACTLY "Not religious" or "without religion". You are trying to convince me that not being religious is being religious. It makes as much sense as a Christian saying "Im not religious, but i love the bible and worshipping Jesus"…just as inane as the suggestion that being a member of a religion makes someone not religious is that your posts show over and over again that you have no idea what some of the words you use actually mean. Let us be clear that this is NOT private property, but tax payer funded property. If they want to sing their religious songs, then let them do it in their homes, or in their church. You have no idea what true tyranny is if you consider what I posted to be tyranical. Sadly, you reflect ignorance of basic definitions and even basic concepts over and over again in all of your posts. BTW, I am not "afraid" of that song. Frankly I think the song sucks ass, but many people get all teary eyed when they hear it so I tolerate it. I do not tolerate religious music being played on public property that uses my tax money. This is not negotiable. If you bring religion into my public schools, I will sue you and I will win. The laws of the land are quite clear about that and do not hinge on the outcome of this discussion.
" I do not tolerate religious music being played on public property" Thus you are a bigot. I don't know how you can think that such censorship is justified or even lawful. You are not entitled to be shielded from hearing ideas you disagree with. In a free country, you are guaranteed to hear things you don't want to hear. Wherever anyone goes, they take their faith, their beliefs, their personal philosophy with them. Saying you can't "bring religion into my schools" is saying you want a segregated society where people who don't believe the same as you are not welcome to participate in public schools, courtrooms, parks, or anywhere else. In effect you seem to want ghettos or reservations where people who are not atheists can be safely shielded away so you won't have to be bothered by hearing any opinion but your own. Sir you are a sad and pathetic excuse for a human being and you have no comprehension of justice, liberty or law. You cannot sue someone for exercising free speech in public places. In order to sue there must be damages and you are not damaged in any way by people expressing beliefs that are different from your own.
James Lightfoot – Then the constitution is bigoted as well, because the constitution is clear that government and government institutions are to remain neutral to religion. Like I said before, your child psychology does not impress anyone but yourself. This is non-negotiable. If you try to sneak religion into public schools I will sue your ass and I will win even if you had an entire army of lawyers on your side. The law is clear. Feel free to argue all you want, it changes nothing….the rest of your post is you trying to be sneaky, or trying to use "gotcha" traps. Im not falling for them. I know the constitution and the constitution agrees with what I am saying in these posts…you can claim I cant sue, or I cant win, but I know better James, and you do to. You know that religion intruding into public schools is illegal. I highly suggest that you get educated on this basic fact if you were unaware of it before I posted it.
It is impossible to know there is no God. It is impossible to prove a negative. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So the best you could possibly say is that you have never seen proof that God exists. However, millions, billions of people around the world firmly believe they have in fact seen that evidence. To them the existence of God is not a matter of faith, it is a known fact based on clear evidence seen with their own eyes. Have you seen through their eyes? Do you know what they know? If you saw a shooting star and no one else did, could you prove it was there? If people doubted you, would it make you believe you hadn't seen it? You saying there is no God is just like saying there are no shooting stars just because you've never seen one. It seems true to you based on what you know, but you don't know what you don't know. You are asking people not to speak what they believe to be true just because you believe something else. It is exactly the same as cultures that forbid any religion but their own. It just happens that in your religion you don't believe that you believe in anything. You can lie to yourself because you believe your lies are true. Every true believer believes their beliefs are true. A fool thinks himself wise, a wise man knows he is a fool.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It says congress can make no laws about religious institutions and people are free to practice any faith they choose. Furthermore, it says the government can't tell you what to say or what not to say. It doesn't say that you can only speak freely in the privacy of your own home. It doesn't say you can't speak freely in public places. It says you can say what you want.
Any law that says otherwise is unconstitutional. There have been ignorant bigots who hate freedom of expression who have had influence in the creation and application of unconstitutional laws. That doesn't make them right. Bigots like you don't win all the time. You're hatred, tyranny, ignorance and prejudice are not what America is based in.
I have no desire to teach religious dogma in schools. I believe that would be unconstitutional. But it is even more unconstitutional to forbid expressions of religious faith in public places.
You havent comprehended a damn word I have posted have you? Still insisting that Atheism is a religion *rollseyes* There is no talking to you, so there is no sense in wasting my time with you any longer. Goodbye James.
I never thought I could convert a religious zealot like you. You are free to practice your faith as you choose. Just don't try to push your faith on others.
James Lightfoot
Isn't it funny how this boys is all of a sudden a constitutional authority when it concerns religion yet he knows nothing of it or of the founders intent? All he knows how to do is rationalize in a hateful, intolerant and bigoted way while pounding his chest and acting high and mighty in his delusional state of mind. These whack jobs are going to have to deal with religious folks till the day they slip into oblivion, or what they consider non existence when hey croak.
James, I have read your sad exchanges with Jeremy here and I have to weigh in. I have to ask you a serious question without sarcasm or facetiousness.
In post after post, you are constantly reiterating this view concerning what you perceive as religious censorship. I, on the other hand, have, on several posts (and even in direct response to you) posted the story which in fact reports that the motivating factor in this teacher's decision was NOT religious-based, nor had ANYTHING to do with religious bias.
Yet time and time again, you ignore this salient and important FACT and continue to promote this entirely false, concocted propaganda that this somehow involves some alleged religious persecution. This is, in fact, ENTIRELY FALSE–and yet you continue to promote what was a deliberate falsehood.
I want to know why you are continuing to promote this propaganda when it has NOTHING to do with the facts of the case? Why do you continue to pursue this false agenda? Is your attachment to this manufactured "controversy" so emotionally invested that you can't actually assimilate REAL facts?
And furthermore, can you see how a voter like you–who can so easily be sold this fallacious tripe–can be so easily led by the nose to voting for propositions that are ENTIRELY FALSE and designed only to invest these Machiavellian puppet masters with more power to destroy America? I believe it's called "Divide and Conquer"–and you're a perfect example of someone who is having their emotions manipulated by falsehoods.
Can you answer my questions?
James Lightfoot Atheism is not a religion, James. Atheism has no "faith" attached to it. Not that I think that you're emotionally ready to accept that Truth either, but it needs to be stated for people who care to speak accurately about philosophical positions.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz – There is no talking to him Ziz. He gets his answers from Fox, and he does not question them one single bit. He plays word games and tries to set "gotcha" traps and people like that should just be flat out ignored because they arent having a discussion, they are trying to tell you what to do while setting traps for you. He barely understand the definitions and positions of the terminology he uses, yet he is just smart enough to make a superficial argument. Anyone who knows the definition ond use of the words he is using knows that he is using those words wrong. The question I want to ask is if James Lightfoot knows he is using these words incorrectly on purporse, or if he even knows better?
I know better than you do apparently. If you were more confident in the subject matter you might not be so scared of logic and reason. Oh yeah, you called them gotcha traps and word games. I suppose you are afraid that if you open your mind something will get in there and mess up your stuff. That's OK, crawl back under your rock and pretend you know everything. I'm sorry I threatened your fragile little egos with all that knowledge, reason, and logic. Just turn off your computers and you will never have to read an opinion that differs from yours again. You can even pretend you are smarter than everyone else on Earth, as long as you never talk to anyone else on Earth your self delusion should be safe.
It's high chutzpah for you to speak of "delusion" and "Knowledge", James, when your own posts illustrate quite clearly that you possess bucketloads of the former, and NONE whatsoever of the latter, lol! You "know better"?!!?! About WHAT, exactly James?–perhaps about diversionary rhetorical circumlocution? I"ll give you that, HOWEVER:
"Ms. Hawkins’s rationale for excising the song, Jessica Scaperotti, a spokeswoman for the Education Department said, had to do with the belief that its opening lines, in their suggestion of dramatic misfortune, might unsettle 5-year-old minds. In the same way you might not want a stage full of kindergartners to perform Merle Haggard’s ballads of loneliness, you might opt to have them skip a song that introduces visions of sudden and annihilating material adversity: “If tomorrow all the things were gone/I’d worked for all my life…”
Once again, please educate yourself on the FACTS, James. You're entitled to your agenda, and your misrepresentation, bu you're not entitled to your own FACTS. Please learn the difference. This was NEVER ABOUT RELIGION.
OUCH. That's gotta hurt?
See what I mean…
@ James… great insight and perspective !! Your posts made the most sense in this rant. I just guess that in the world of Liberal thought, any song that praises the United States of America and dares to profess "PRIDE" IN this country , should NEVER be sung, because that song is WRONG and BAD !!! Its just a song about Pride in this country, nothing more , nothing less, and if there are ideals that are in contrast with yours, so be it. Isn't that what its all about ? FREE exchange of ideas and FREE and OPEN debate of positions !!! But for the liberals, they attack and shout down any position , INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY.. "PRIDE IN THE USA" every chance they get !!! You either agree with us, or you are wrong !!! Well, if you are RIGHT, and you do have all the answers, then I have NO idea why any of you would waste a second of your time responding on this topic??? Isn't this beneath righteous and perfect liberal people ??? Because, last time I checked, no body is perfect, and no body is right 100% of the time!! NO BODY IS PERFECT !!!! That much I know !! That's why the founding fathers , in their wisdom and thought, built this nation on the idea of protecting the FREE expression of ideas !! Religious or otherwise. And yes..Jeremy… ATHEISM is a faith and a religious belief !! Maybe not in the traditional sense, but it is a faith. Faith in that nothing beyond this life exists. That's an idea, a faith , a belief in something that can not be proven or disproved !!! The very definition of Faith !! You can NOT prove that GOD does NOT exist anymore than I can prove he does !!! Its your faith that dictates your belief !!! So when you try to say that the only position that should be defended in public schools, is the ZERO TOLERANCE of mentioning or allowing the mention of God in any form, well.. that comes from your belief, and why should that belief be more protected in public areas of our country than others ??? The constitution says freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion !!! Your point of view has no more right to be pushed on kids in public schools than the other. Because they are both based on personal belief and definitely are both forms of Faith !!
John Rivera – Thats right John, I am rigteous and perfect, not only that but I am dead sexy as well. Dont hate me because I am smarter than you. By all means, go out and get an education. And I will have you know my faith in atheism is strong, unless it is confronted with talk of Jesus. this is because deep down inside I know that Jesus is the living and true son of God and I want to ignore it so that I can sin in this lifetime. Yes, my faith dictates my beliefs, but not as much as the god of Atheism, satan, does. Satan is constantly wispering things in my ear, one of the things he wispers the most is "satana doesnt exist", but I am too ignorant to understand how foolish I am to believe such things from Lucifer. In fact my faith in atheism is actually an evidence that Christ exists and actually rose from the dead. And yes, the constitution says freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion…so then I must obviously be forced away from atheism to Crhsitianity, since I have no freedom from religion. Yes, Christianity is the main power behind America. America is great because out of all of the other countries, God likes America the best (almost as much as he likes Israel) and that people like me in his country make him mad. Yeah, I know, I should be kicked out of america for being an atheist (since there is no freedom from religion), but you christian right wingers are so kind, compassionate and generous to allow me to live here. I promise I will just shut up from now on and let you right wing evangelicals pull all the levers.
@Jeremy… Never said the Atheism is belief in Satan as god. Atheism rejects all concepts or beliefs that souls or god, or even satan exist !! So, I never said that Atheists are devil worshipers !! Nor did I suggest that Atheist choose that , because they want to live a life in sin !!! I know that there may be many Christians you may have heard that from , but I'm NOT one of them. I'm also not here to suggest that FREEDOM OF RELIGION , means that anyone should convert or conform to anything. Its in the 1st amendment to insure that we are all free to worship as we choose. What gets this topic so heated, (and the only reason that it applies to this original topic is because Lee Greenwood's Song PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, contains the phrase GOD BLESS the USA ) is that for many there is NOTHING wrong with singing that song in a public school. But for others, that is a violation of the constitution. We all pay taxes, and we all believe that we are right in our views of this. My point is that because the constitution said, FREEDOM OF, not FREEDOM FROM, religion, that your concept of ZERO TOLERANCE, does NOT work !! But in no way did I ever suggest that atheist are believers in satan or choose that belief because they want to sin. We are all sinners. And everyone commits sin !!! We all do it, because we are not perfect. NO body is perfect no matter how much you believe you might be. But to my original rant, I DON'T UNDERSTAND, and CAN'T UNDERSTAND, why anyone would be this objecting to the singing of the song PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN by kids, that they would act the way they did in this report ??? That's where I'm coming from !!!
This is quite interesting, James. Apparently, the owners of this website have taken to removing the last few responses that I made to you where I point out the place in that article where the principal's motives are clearly spelled out–and they have NOTHING to do with Religion. She simply sought to protect the children from the disquieting thought of losing "all the things that I've worked for in my life", as the lyrics state.
Either it's a tacit admission that the Rightwing cannot stand the truth, or you've been whining about it too much? In any case, it doesn't change the fact that you and the entire Conservative Spin Machine is dead-wrong on this issue, but are too ideologically blind to see, and too politically cowardly to admit the truth.
Zizzer, we are having a conversation on multiple topics. I read your article and it says absolutely nothing that makes any difference in this discussion. The motives of the principal don't matter. The motives of the parents who organized the sing along don't matter. They all had a right to express their beliefs. On a completely different discussion thread is the concept pushed by you and Jeremy that expressing religious beliefs in public places ought to be forbidden. When discussing that concept, the circumstances of this particular case don't matter. Try to keep up. You seem to be getting confused.
Zizzer, we are having a conversation on multiple topics. I read your article and it says absolutely nothing that makes any difference in this discussion. The motives of the principal don't matter. The motives of the parents who organized the sing along don't matter. They all had a right to express their beliefs. On a completely different discussion thread is the concept pushed by you and Jeremy that expressing religious beliefs in public places ought to be forbidden. When discussing that concept, the circumstances of this particular case don't matter. Try to keep up. You seem to be getting confused.
James, I never said, and state for the record right here and now that I have NOTHING AGAINST people expressing their religious beliefs. Just don't encode or adopt them into a ritual or performance which impels other people who do not share your beliefs when they are under your aegis, or when the institution which you represent in turn represents the public. THEN, your beliefs are being imposed upon others whom you have no right to impose belief upon.
I don't know why you're so stuck in the mud about this, except that perhaps you're listening to some local demagogue down there who is preaching revisionist history or something. The principles which I espouse are nothing new. They have been CONSTANTLY re-affirmed by ruling after ruling in courts across this country. If you believe otherwise, you are SERIOUSLY misinformed. This is no my ideology. This is not my atheism speaking, This is a matter of settled law, on the books, researchable and citable. I honestly hope for your sake that you take some time to research the facts about this. I know that the Right wing, and especially the Religious RIght has been steadfastly pushing revisionist ideas about the role and reality of Church/State issues, and I can only assume that you've been taken in by some of this? Honestly though, what you see as a stifling of your religious "freedom" is more accurately you and your kind not being informed about the true limits and parameters of "allowable" expressions of religion in public, and especially by public and governmental institutions.
Yes, and the Nazis had no problem with Jews as long as they stayed hidden in the attic. I really can't see how you can imagine that controlling what other people say is remotely allowable in a free society. Seems like you'd be more comfortable in a fascist state.
"allowable" expressions of religion in public
…nor abridging the freedom of speech…
You don't see anything contradictory there? Really? Really?
it appears you don't speak the same English that I do.
James, the Nazi reference is really scraping the bottom of the barrel and a sign of an intellect that has reached its limits of rationality and compelling intellect. Shame on you.
No, James–you misunderstood, and I didn't state that quite eloquently enough. "Allowable" in "Public" as in "a public institution". You cannot invoke sectarian gods of ANY creed in a public arena if that arena is part of the representative public's domain. Save your invocations of your god for your churches and privately-sponsored gatherings where you know your crowd and where there is no obligation to respect others' religious views but your own. What's so hard to understand about that?
"Freedom of speech" is not a universal, unabridged "right" You can't yell "Fire" in a theatre; you can't even say the word "Bomb" in the airport. You can't threaten to kill the President. Let's not be disingenuous, James.
God, Buddha, Allah, Thor, Vishnu, Cthulu… Did that hurt you? Did that create a hazardous situation? Did that incite people to panic or fear? It did not. They are just words. A person expressing their beliefs is not trying to start a fight. Expressing one's beliefs does not endanger others or inhibit their liberty. People like you seek to inhibit liberty by controlling speech and only allowing your religious views to be expressed. Freedom of religion means that all religions are welcome, not that none are allowed. School, church, home, courthouse, field or park, it doesn't matter. The right to free speech protects the rights of all people of all creeds to express their beliefs anywhere they want to. If you don't like hearing it, tough. Lots of people don't like hearing what you have to say either. Lots of people would like you to shut the hell up with your hate spewing insanity. But free speech protects even crazy atheist bigots like you. So feel free to keep professing this crap all you wish.
Your attempts at an "Argument" are becoming more and more childlike, James. you are regressing.
"Freedom of religion" ALSO means that no religion has supremacy or primacy. This is the concept which you either TRULY don't understand or are pretending you don't that you may continue your hysterical, off-topic rants. But you're right about people being able to express their beliefs anywhere they want to–PRIVATE CITIZENS do indeed have that right. But elected officials and representative parties DO NOT. Your grumpiness about this fact is not going to change either the Law, nor the settled history which backs me up. Don't hate me for trying to enlighten you, James. It's not very Christian.
I'm not very Christian. Christianity has certainly influenced my beliefs but don't comprise the whole of it. I'm more of a deist than a theist. At any rate that is not really relevant to this discussion. Nothing in the constitution says that one religion can't be practiced any more than any other. It just says that the government should not interfere with people's religion. What you advocate is suppression of religion to the point where the people all behave as if they were atheists. Representatives of the government, in a republic, are in fact still citizens of the republic they represent. While they should not make any laws referencing religious institutions, they are still free to express their personal beliefs and exercise their religion in any way they deem appropriate so long as it in no way impedes the religious freedom of others.
I'm not very Christian. Christianity has certainly influenced my beliefs but don't comprise the whole of it. I'm more of a deist than a theist. At any rate that is not really relevant to this discussion. Nothing in the constitution says that one religion can't be practiced any more than any other. It just says that the government should not interfere with people's religion. What you advocate is suppression of religion to the point where the people all behave as if they were atheists. Representatives of the government, in a republic, are in fact still citizens of the republic they represent. While they should not make any laws referencing religious institutions, they are still free to express their personal beliefs and exercise their religion in any way they deem appropriate so long as it in no way impedes the religious freedom of others.
James Lightfoot "…so long as it in no way impedes the religious freedom of others.".
EXACTLY. NOW you're finally getting it.
There's hope for you yet, James.
A person talking about their faith in no way impedes the religious freedom of anyone else. People saying things you don't agree with is no impediment to you believing what you want to believe. They can't force you to go to church. They can't force you to pray. But they can say what they believe and you can believe something different.
James Lightfoot I have no argument with that sentiment, James. The individual PERSONAL EXPRESSION of religion is an American right and I support it fully.
Perhaps we should look at it as belching. You have a right to belch to yourself, or in a like-minded group of belchers, but you do not have the right—nor is it either polite, nor decorous–to belch loudly in public where your belching might offend, nor may you force others to belch IN YOUR MANNER of choice.
Works for me, James. How about you?
Shame on those who would use these children as political pawns. This is disgraceful.
Oh so having kids march around singing songs in school about Obama like they had the kids in brown shirts do in NAZI Germany is OK? I would rather a kid learn a Patriotic song that invokes positive things about our Country and the name GOD in it than singing Barack Obama……
Another thing Nick, when you feel Patriotic and appreciate this country people tend to wave the flag and sing out loud songs about your country. I know I feel proud when the National Anthem is played and I have my hand over my heart. I think of all the people who gave their lives so that we may chat here online in safety without the SS breaking down our doors. At least for now!
Nick Wrong
Shame on Hawkins for removing a song that no one had issues with in favor of an age inappropriate Bieber trash. Shame on her for her last minute decision rather than asking the parents.
Nick Wrong
Shame on Hawkins for removing a song that no one had issues with in favor of an age inappropriate Bieber trash. Shame on her for her last minute decision rather than asking the parents.
Poor, ignorant Joke Rivera…..
She tossed the Bieber first little fella….
The majority of the parents have been supporting her decision all along….
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=1
'Facts' are so inconvenient, aren't they Joke?
Now, shouldn't you be practicing acting depressed so you can keep getting those checks?
Your a nasty left winger aren't you Howard?
Paul, what you are talking about is nationalism, and its a dangerous thing as history has shown over and over again. The United States is NOT an exceptional country as the republicans try to stress. That is just a talking point the right uses to justify invading foreign lands and demonizing the left who for the most part recognizes that we are one nation among many and no better than anyone else. This country has its good qualities, and its bad qualities. Believe me, there is much that could be improved. Where do we rank on health care? Where do we rank on education? And I love my country, and I love the national anthem, but I don't need to wave a flag and loudly sing to show that. I show it by trying to work to improve this country. Let's get everyone health care and then talk about "american exceptionalism".
I never once said I agreed with a class singing Obama songs, so your point is irrelevant.
Joel Rivera, I don't agree that Bieber songs would be appropriate either. And it seems the majority does agree with this principal, just not the theocratic tea party.
Paul, what you are talking about is nationalism, and its a dangerous thing as history has shown over and over again. The United States is NOT an exceptional country as the republicans try to stress. That is just a talking point the right uses to justify invading foreign lands and demonizing the left who for the most part recognizes that we are one nation among many and no better than anyone else. This country has its good qualities, and its bad qualities. Believe me, there is much that could be improved. Where do we rank on health care? Where do we rank on education? And I love my country, and I love the national anthem, but I don't need to wave a flag and loudly sing to show that. I show it by trying to work to improve this country. Let's get everyone health care and then talk about "american exceptionalism".
I never once said I agreed with a class singing Obama songs, so your point is irrelevant.
Joel Rivera, I don't agree that Bieber songs would be appropriate either. And it seems the majority does agree with this principal, just not the theocratic tea party.
Nick Wright you are correct and I agree whole heartily with doing rather than saying. But there is nothing wrong with flag waving in the appropriate amounts and if it is lead by the people not by Government. I very strongly disagree with your statement; "The United States is NOT an exceptional country as the republicans try to stress." We are indeed EXCEPTIONAL! That is why people come here, in some case die to get here. American = exceptional, sorry Nick you are wrong. We should always strive to be that but keep humble. Sure we have our faults, hell look at Howard in the above statement…LOL. Also Health care is not a right, to fix it would mean competition not run by the government. Same goes with education, hell look at NYC! Kids today know very little of anything and we wonder why we are calling India for support or manufacturing overseas. I can't find decent help, or just even someone with a decent work ethic. We are doomed with this generation, they are not doers, leaders or thinkers. They are takers and give me this I am owed that……but look at what we have as teachers.
Nick Wright you are correct and I agree whole heartily with doing rather than saying. But there is nothing wrong with flag waving in the appropriate amounts and if it is lead by the people not by Government. I very strongly disagree with your statement; "The United States is NOT an exceptional country as the republicans try to stress." We are indeed EXCEPTIONAL! That is why people come here, in some case die to get here. American = exceptional, sorry Nick you are wrong. We should always strive to be that but keep humble. Sure we have our faults, hell look at Howard in the above statement…LOL. Also Health care is not a right, to fix it would mean competition not run by the government. Same goes with education, hell look at NYC! Kids today know very little of anything and we wonder why we are calling India for support or manufacturing overseas. I can't find decent help, or just even someone with a decent work ethic. We are doomed with this generation, they are not doers, leaders or thinkers. They are takers and give me this I am owed that……but look at what we have as teachers.
Nick.. HORRORS that the kids my be taught that America is a GOOD nation!! Then they wouldn't grow up, and expect everything HANDED to them, or go out and act like the low life OWS bums, etc etc… PERISH the thought!!
As to these "wars"… what do they have to do with CONSERVATISM ?? For your info.. WW1, WW2, and both Korea and Viet Nam were all DEMOCRAT wars…. hmmmm…
Nick Wright : Let's get everyone health care and then talk about "American exceptionalism".
So only after we accept SOCIALISM, can we be "exceptional??? Why don't you move to Britain, and you can be exceptional right now!!
Hank, what about the invasion of Iraq? A country that never attacked us? What justified that invasion? Who authorized the invasion?
Healthcare for all is not socialism. Its doing the right thing. I advocate for a single-payer health care plan, its not socialism. Right now, the U.S. ranks 37th in the world for quality and efficency of health care. Hardly exceptional. 45 million uninsured and risk early death due to lack of health care. Hardly exceptional. Is Medicare socialism? It seems to work pretty well for the people it covers. Why not use those same principles and get everyone covered?? That would be exceptional.
Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Is this what you call exceptional?
You want to know where the U.S. leads in the world? Prison and incarceration. 730 prisoners per 100,000 citizens. Is that what you call exceptional?
I do think we have an exceptional constitution. I do think we've had some exceptional leaders. I do think we are exceptional in that we are a melting pot of cultures and come from a wide range of backgrounds from all over the world. But the idea that the U.S. is an exceptional nation, at least right now, is a load of horse sh*t.
Nick, you have to really read between the lines on those rankings. Let's use Britain or even Canada as an example. Free health care right? Try waiting in line for a major health procedure, in some cases people died because of it. Go to canadafreepress,com and read some of what our neighbors to the north say about free health care. Go to Ukonline.com and read the horror stories there, it would blow your mind. Like I said we have our faults but we are the best in the world and other countries look up to the USA to be there on top. Now to your points on Prison yes I agree, way to many incarcerations for small time crimes like pot. Which should never have been illegal in the first place. It blows my mind how something natural which literally grows anywhere can have your life ruined forever by smoking or possessing it. This is coming from someone who does not smoke by the way, its just common sense. But you know you have one major positive statement above which brings us closer together than you realize. It was the Constitution, without that we are screwed! We all need to talk and listen more to each other, but learn from the mistakes made by others, but weigh any answer to a problem against our Constitution. Does anything infringe on our GOD given rights? If so, then it is not worth the risk…..
There's certainly some overlap in our beliefs here. The constitution is above all the most important document in the history of this country. I absolutely agree pot should have been at the very least decriminalized a long time ago. Think of the tax revenue that it would generate, not to mention it would eliminate millions of dollars to the black market and to criminals.
I believe our rights come from humanity, as fellow human beings we are all created equal and share equal rights. I'm not religious. i do happen to believe that healthcare is one of those rights. We disagree there. I'm sure the systems in Canada and the UK are not perfect, but ours is terribly broken and I really think a single payer system is something worth trying. This is about saving people's lives.. something like Medicare for all, seems to me that it would be a worthwhile experiment. Once I see something like that, I would be proud to call this an exceptional country. Until then, we are just one of many and on the decline btw.
Coward Aubrey
Howard rhymes nicely with coward, now try again and while your at it get a life.
You posting something from the NYTimes is like using something from the Huffington Post to try and prove your mindless point. You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you.
And "Joel" rhymes with A**HOLE.
Now try again and please spell "YOU'RE" at it correctly, moron.
And "Joel" rhymes with A**HOLE.
Now try again and please spell "YOU'RE" at it correctly, moron.
And "Joel" rhymes with A**HOLE.
Now try again and please spell "YOU'RE" at it correctly, moron.
Paul Schietinger The USA USED TO BE an "exceptional country". But thanks to people who support the predatory Capitalists and Republicans like most of the people on this site do, we're well on our way to Third World status.
Paul Schietinger The USA USED TO BE an "exceptional country". But thanks to people who support the predatory Capitalists and Republicans like most of the people on this site do, we're well on our way to Third World status.
Paul Schietinger The USA USED TO BE an "exceptional country". But thanks to people who support the predatory Capitalists and Republicans like most of the people on this site do, we're well on our way to Third World status.
Coward Aubrey
Keep on trying son. I only had to change one letter. A**hole is how you act towards everyone in here with your condescending attitude and delusions of perfection, Mr Perv. You know, you dont have to even try hard in being an a**hole, you do it with such finesse. What talent!
Nick, It seems that you hate America, hate individual liberty, hate fee markets, hate religious freedom, hate free speech, and hate anyone who is proud to be an American. Stop peddling your hate to children. The point of the song is that it is not about what American can do for you, it is a place where you are free to make of your life whatever you can. You have no idea what socialized medicine is like if you think it is a good idea. I'm a disabled veteran. I've had "free healthcare" for 15 years. Or rather I've had the promise of free healthcare. The VA is very good about making promises, not very good at keeping them. The best thing I can do for my health is to stay the hell away from government run medicine. There is no health problem so bad that government medicine can't make it worse. When I actually need help, I save up my money go to a doctor and pay out of my own pocket. And because I'm disabled, I also have medicare, but I have to be careful not to tell the hospitals about that because they won't take you as a patient if you have medicare. You see, the government is really bad about actually paying bills and they keep piling on so many regulations and restrictions they make it impossible to run a business. Many doctors won't treat people with medicare even if you offer to pay cash. Accepting medicare patients lets the government interfere and ruin your business. Paying cash is the only way to get quality medical care.
James you can look at Nick and tell that Nick hates Nick .don't blame him.. with the attitude he has..he's lost with no where to go..he's been no where and no one will accept him! I really fill sorry for him..God Bless Him..James all you can do for people like him is pray for him. God can change him…
I hate America? lol. Ok. Glad you can see whats in my heart. Typical right-wing ad hominem response, you must watch a lot of Sean Hannity?
And please, pray away Marshall. Probably isn't going to do you any good, because there is as much chance of that working as praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There's as much evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster as there is for what you call 'God'. So glad you know me so well.
James, while you got that free, "socialized health care" from the government to pay for your disabilities, were you in the newspapers whining and complaining about that FREE "socialized medicine" you were receiving on MY TAXES and demanding that you should be allowed to pay for it? Uh huh….
No, shame on those who heckled the kids. It was stupid as well as mean because it made them look like jerks.
Zizzer, I just said I pay for my health care because regardless of what the government promises, what you get is nothing. I would much rather know from the start that the government is not going to help rather than have a false promise that they will take care of everything, causing me to be dependent upon that assistance and then it never comes. I've been waiting on them for 15 years. It caused me a lot of pain waiting on promises that are never kept. You're beliefs on the subject are not going to change my 15 years of first hand experience
So James, you've got the cash to pay for your treatments. Wonderful. Good for you. So now, would you deny health care to those who can't afford to pay for it? Think about that pain you had. Would you wish that on anyone else? Your buddies who served with you? Where would you be if you didn't have that cash to pay for it? Answer–in chronic pain, possibly, or dead–like a lot of other poor people who can't afford it because of the ridiculous rates and charges that Republicans that YOU SUPPORT are fighting tooth and nail to keep up in the stratosphere.
At what point do you have to make a moral decision about what and who you advocate?
So James, you've got the cash to pay for your treatments. Wonderful. Good for you. So now, would you deny health care to those who can't afford to pay for it? Think about that pain you had. Would you wish that on anyone else? Your buddies who served with you? Where would you be if you didn't have that cash to pay for it? Answer–in chronic pain, possibly, or dead–like a lot of other poor people who can't afford it because of the ridiculous rates and charges that Republicans that YOU SUPPORT are fighting tooth and nail to keep up in the stratosphere.
At what point do you have to make a moral decision about what and who you advocate?
I am in chronic pain. Every minute of every day for the last 17 years and it is never going to stop. I'm not rich I subsist on my VA disability pension. The money that is supposed to be my subsistence allowance has to be carefully saved and managed to pay for the health care that the VA won't provide. Did you know that health care is more expensive when you ask insurance to pay for it? Did you know that when you deal directly with the doctor you can save 50% to 70% because it saves the doctor so much time and money they would spend trying to collect that payment? Did you know that Medicare has one of the worst reimbursement records of any third party insurance provider. Medicare denies over 30% of claims filed. When Medicare refuses to pay, the patient gets stuck with the bill. Are you disabled? Are you on Medicare? Do you suffer unbearable, agonizing pain every single day of your life? If not, then you don't have any idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't wish this life on anyone. I'd rather let you remain ignorant and keep spouting idiotic slogans that you don't comprehend than for you to live even one day of my life. Please, continue to go through life in ignorant bliss.
Yes, isn't it sad how the Right wing is deliberately inflaming silly issues like this to cause this kind of rancor and emotion to surround little kids who shouldn't be subjected to this kind of religious agenda being fomented by the likes of FOX "News" and Todd Starnes and their hysterical followers?
When I look at the column of headlines on the right of this page, I just think: "Man! This guy and this station are playing you guys like a fine Stradivarius! Start a little tune, put "patriotic" or "Christian" in the title of it, and BOOM!–you people are falling right in step with your masters! To read the outrage and manufactured indignation on these pages is a LIBERAL DELIGHT–but also, VERY SAD to see how easily you people are led and duped by your latent fears and prejudices.
Carry on, Right wingers; ONE two three, ONE two three…
Only tards acting hysterically.. were the LIBERAL Hecklers… nice try tho….
Only tards acting hysterically.. were the LIBERAL Hecklers… nice try tho….
Just take a gander at the "hysterical" commentary from the Faithful below, Honk:
"PISS ON THEM AMERICA HATING MISCREANTS"!!
"…utterly disgusting."
And MAYBE the most idiotic, MORONIC and hysterical of all:
"Socialism RUINS every nation that tries it"–WHERE DID THIS WINGNUT GET "SOCIALISM" OUT OF THIS!?!
Oh wait–that's YOU!? Wanna explain yourself, silly man? (…as the band plays on; ONE two three, ONE two three…)
The progressives are religious fanatics dedicated to destroy our country so they can build a progressive fascist paradise like in Nazi Germany, the USSR and Cuba. Where the can enforce their will on the rest of us.
Part of their fundamental transformation of the USA is training the youth in public schools to hate the country and strive for socialism. They want to create their own Hitler youth who will vote progressive in the future. That is why the 5 year olds couldn't be allowed to sing God Bless Americal.
You're genuinely, SERIOUSLY deluded, Konrad. What flavor is that Kool Aid you're drinking? Or are you mixing all the flavors as one?–they tell ya not to do that, you know.
Seriously–I have to just ask you–have you reread what you just posted? What a bunch of Neo-Conservative pinko CRAP.
Let me ask you this, Konrad–WHOSE side is the Religious Right on? WHOSE party declared a free-for-all on civil rights during 2000-2008 under the guise of war? WHOSE party wants to amend the Constitution to stop Gays from marrying; WHOSE party wants to get in womens' bedrooms and CONTROL what they can do with their bodies? HINT–it AIN'T the Left.
Why don't we talk about the Religious Right's "Project Exodus" in which they urged their fellow sheep to pull t heir kids out of public schools so that they could defund and "starve" the public school system just because they didn't want their kids to learn about Evolution and actual Science instead of Bronze-Age religious dogma?
Seriously–why do I waste my time replying to radical nutbags like you? Oh yeah–because YOU'RE the idiots helping to destroy America by electing these treasonous., fundamentalist worshipers of POWER and CONTROL.
Get a Klue, K-K-Konrad!
Conrad, you nailed it !! thats exactly whats happening !
The name you have yourself under shows your intelligence and your mental age. Go play in the sandbox.
That juvenile comment does nothing to address the careful manipulation of fools like you and your cohorts here, Melissa. You're obviously intimidated by my astute observations and commentary.
And the band plays on; ONE two three, ONE two three…
That juvenile comment does nothing to address the careful manipulation of fools like you and your cohorts here, Melissa. You're obviously intimidated by my astute observations and commentary.
And the band plays on; ONE two three, ONE two three…
That juvenile comment does nothing to address the careful manipulation of fools like you and your cohorts here, Melissa. You're obviously intimidated by my astute observations and commentary.
And the band plays on; ONE two three, ONE two three…
If Obama had sons, they would be just like you…
Hopefully, Marshall. I actually care about this country, rather than you paranoid freaks and haters.
There is absolutely nothing controversial about this song unless you hate America and don't want children to like the country they live in. These protesters are sickening. I honestly don't see how you can defend this. The parents thought it was absurd that the kids would not be allowed to sing the song so they put together an event to let the kids sing it. Why would anyone have a problem with it? It is a great song with a very positive message. Do democrats hate America? And what is a "republican area" and why don't you do this here? What is racist about God Bless the USA? The protest makes no sense. It is just mindless hate hurled at children.
JAMES, STOP SPAMMING THE SITE WITH MULTIPLE CUT-N-PASTES.
SAY WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT TO SAY AND BE DONE!
I was responding to multiple delusional morons who all needed to read the same message to point out how stupid they were being. I'm so sorry that you read the same message twice. I only meant to direct it at you once.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz You are an antitheist bigot. Your posts reveal an irrational, pathological hatred of people who have religious faith. Your ridiculous beliefs about the "religious right" show a pronounced delusion and a complete break from reality. Were you the only person professing this absurdity I'd call it a psychotic break. However, since millions of mindless liberals profess the same delusions as if they are facts I can only assume it is an organized group that accepts the same false teachings based on faith and uses their dogma as an excuse to persecute people with different beliefs. You are a member of a cult that hates and denigrates anyone who doesn't share their faith. Just because you don't believe in God doesn't make you any less of a religious zealot.
James, sorry, but a "religious zealot" doesn't force their dogmatic views on anyone. The fact is, James, that you Christians have it pretty darned good in this country, but you've been so manipulated and bamboozled by these Machiavellian cynics in your party (who understand how to push your buttons all too well) that you've begun to believe (erroneously) that "exercising your faith" means that you can shoehorn your beliefs into the PUBLIC square and public POLICY. From coast to coast, these people who only want your emotional votes are trying to interject religion into everything they can–and then feigning and fomenting faux outrage when they are rightfully rebuked.
Take this story for instance. Your "type" has been so thoroughly PLAYED with this completely BOGUS story that it would be embarrassingly funny if it weren't such an accurate reflection of what I just alleged about your gullibility and spiritual arrogance. As reported in this story—http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=3 —this was NEVER about "Religion". Uh, that is unless you factor in what seems to be a distinctly anti-religious bias on the part of CHRISTIANS (!!!) who apparently have had something against this Jehovah's Witness principal?
Now don't get me wrong–I think the JW"s are among the wackiest of the Wacky out there–but this principal made an arguably sensitive call based upon her intuition that children may be scared by the thought that (paraphrasing) "everything they worked for all their lives may suddenly gone one day"–a perfectly valid concern, as I can attest by the "cute" misunderstandings of my young nephew who got the bejesus scared out of him one day at school by a simple tutorial on fire alarms. He came home one day and cut paper "alarms" out, and pasted them all throughout the house, and cried if we tried to take them down. Some of them are STILL there, three years later.
James, I can live with the charge of "religious bigot". I'll freely admit–I don't like you fundamentalist types telling me what I can do in my bedroom, whether my fiance can use birth control, or what her options would be in case she accidentally got pregnant. If you want to remain celibate, take sexual risks, or overpopulate the Earth or raise an unwanted baby, YOU ARE FREE TO DO SO. But don't tell me that I have to obey your stringent, "faith-based morality" while you supprt the Death Penalty, try to limit rights for those among us who are born Gay, and support the most rapacious, immoral and greedy b*stards who ever populated this rock. The hypocrisy just makes me want to vomit, James.
When did I say anything about my personal beliefs? I don't think I did. You really don't know anything about my personal religious beliefs. I'm not a member of any organized religion. I'm not defending religious liberty for only those who agree with me. I defend it for everyone, even atheists. People talking about their faith in no way compels you to adopt their beliefs. Free speech guarantees you will hear things you don't want to hear. Freedom of religion guarantees that there will be people who disagree with your beliefs. You have a right to not like it. You have a right to say you don't like it. But you have no right to silence it. If you believe in free speech you have to stand up for the people who are saying things you don't want to hear. I swore an oath many years ago to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. I meant it when I said it. Being disabled and discharged didn't release me from that oath. I put my life on the line to protect the rights of people to say and believe things whether I agree with them or not. I believe that anyone has the right to say anything they want in public, even if it is religious. You could stand in the park and sing about atheism. I'm sure it would offend some people, but you have the right to do it. My stake in this is all about freedom.
Well I can't argue about that admirable ethic James. For me this is all about the manipulation and perversion of that admirable ethic and concepts like "Freedom"–in every manifestation; religious, personal, patriotic. REMEMBER–this principal made a questionable judgment call based upon her belief of what was good for the children that had NOTHING to do with "God" or "Freedom" or patriotism or ANY of all that. She simply thought that the lyrics were a little bit confusing or troubling for a five-year-old. I can't find fault with that, whether I agree with that or not. In the end, SHE THOUGHT that she was just looking out for the children's peace of mind. NO harm, NO foul.
But, of course, some A-hole had to try to pervert it into an agenda-driver, and to inflame the fragile passions of "the Base" by using those ol' "dog whistle" politics; you know–something only a certain constituency can hear, or WILL hear provided that the right "language" is used. And use it, they did. What's sad is that none of this was even necessary or on the radar until the media decided to turn it into a damned circus–and these innocent kids are caught in the middle of a VERY "adult" agenda and purpose.
She made a call and perhaps she had her reasons. The parents disagreed, but did not try to disrupt the graduation to force her to change her mind. They simply said, fine you can decide what the kids sing in school, we decide what they can sing outside of school. And so, they decided to sing their song outside of school. Why is that a problem? Oh no! there are children singing in the park! Better go put a stop to this atrocity. Lets go shout them down, cuss them out and scare them to death so they will know that kids can't sing in public in America. I'm still not seeing what the parents or the children did wrong. They gathered to sing a song someone told them not to sing in school. Should they be publicly flogged for daring to resist authority?
James, with respect– did you read anything I just said?! I DON'T AGREE WITH THE STUPID PROTESTERS! Their judgment was just as bad as the parents' judgment was in the FIRST place in putting their innocent, wholly-UN-partisan kids in the middle of this to push THEIR agenda! And the presence of a politician no less?!? How much clearer does it have to be?
"Daring to resist authority"!?!! James, let me assure you–I"m Public Antagonist Number ONE when it comes to resisting/hating ANY kind of abuse of Authority–but this was NOT a call for that. This was MISINFORMED parents–or QUITE POSSIBLY bigoted parents with an agenda of a minority religion about which they're fearfully ignorant (read the link that I've posted several times around here) willfully dancing to the tune played by the cynically-motivated Rightwing band.
With all due respect, you're ascribing noble intentions to an action that had no "nobility" about it. It was wrong–and cowardly– to put those kids up as sounding boards for their agenda and wrong to make those kids participants in something that is not even what it being misrepresented as being.
Gotta chime out now. It's nearly 3:30 AM in Milan, and I'm going to bed.
You are wrong. You are dancing to a tune ginned up by left wing extremists. You really are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Conservatives do get offended by things they perceive as being anti-American and anti-religious. Even if they were wrong in how they interpreted the action of the principal, they had a right to protest. And the protest didn't harm anyone. I firmly disagree with asserting a false equivalency between these two sides. Parents and children singing in the park is not equal to thugs shouting obscenities at children. False equivalency is a propaganda tool used to excuse bad behavior by equating it with behavior that is not bad at all. I'm not buying it in this case. There may be equivalency between the principal banning the song and the parents singing it anyway. Both are people acting on what they think is right. But don't try to equate them with the thugs who shouted and cursed at kids.
At any rate it has been an interesting debate and I would not mind having further discussions in the future. I enjoy a spirited debate with people who hold widely differing beliefs. Add me as a friend if you'd like to chat about political philosophy in the future.
James, your post honestly saddens me, truly, because I don't know how to make it any clearer that I IN NO WAY support the actions of the protesters. I don't know why you're "stuck" on this, and perhaps you need to take a step back and re-read this exchange between you and I and recognize that I'm not equivocating the kids vs protestors. My animus is directed PURELY at the orchestrators and provocateurs who first took this innocuous personal judgment by the principal and turned it into a cause-de-celebre for the Rightwing agenda. Really–and you have the chutzpah to call me a "conspiracy theorist"? James, these WAS a conspiracy here. A conspiracy very plainly outlined and reported HERE in this story of the timeline of this brouhaha– http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4 –ONCE AGAIN, I post it for your discovery. READ IT, please.
If you still insist on standing behind your misinformed data concerning the crux of this issue, then that is cause for true regret. How can a nation ever hope to find itself when one side of the table refuses to accept–out of pride or just plain willful ignorance–that they are being lied to, being manipulated, cynically used to further a self-destructive agenda? Yes, I'm talking about you and our constituents. This board is full of posters who either don't know–or don't WANT to know that their anger and "righteous" indignation is misplaced; that they made a bad call and look the fool. We've all seen this before in everyday kerfuffles–people who cannot, will not back down no matter what the consequences or how clear the facts. It's a shame that the people who are running this agenda –so adroitly manipulating the proclivities of the religious, Conservative, patriotic voter–don't have the integrity to respect the values that they are corrupting and destroying and turning to parody. ANd by keeping a stiff back in this, you are one of their pawns.
I genuinely lament your obdurateness. I truly hope that you read the timeline of this story and–though you may not admit it here–privately realize that your "understanding" of this issue is wrong.
I'm still saying the orchestrators did nothing wrong. I will not accept your attempt to vilify them. I'm willing to concede that the principal acted out of good intentions, however misguided they may have been. We both agree that the hecklers are scum. What I keep arguing with you about is your insistence that letting kids sing a song in the park is an evil act that is the equivalent of throwing your kids to the wolves. It is an argument that makes no sense. Are democrats such monsters that defying them should be considered inherently dangerous? You are backing a losing hand.
James. in a word. bullship. Your pride blinds and shames you. It is quite one thing for adults to act stupidly and irresponsibly as the protesters did; it is quite another altogether to shamelessly exploit your children for the promotion of a stupid political agenda–and one yet which has been based upon deliberately, willfully misrepresented data. You're so deeply entrenched and invested in your ideology that you can't see that–or are simply too proud to admit it.
On a secondary point: "Letting kids sing a song in a park"? I chuckle with cynical rue. If you HONESTLY find no fault with the orchestrators, that implies that you would in fact consent to the exploitation of your own children in such a manner? SHAME.
I don't have kids, but I would have no problem with it if I did. It is a group of people and their kids singing a song in a park. There is no reason to expect violence. There is no reason to assume that people would be so violently opposed to such an event that it would place children in danger. This was a peaceful demonstration of a difference of opinions. I've been to many Tea Party rallies and it is a perfectly safe place for children. Why should people expressing their beliefs in a public place they have every right to be fear for the safety of their kids?
Because this has nothing to do with "expressing beliefs", James. It's about putting your kids in the middle of an emotionally-charged atmosphere in order to exploit them and their innocence for a political agenda.
Th fact that you so obdurately dance around the issue with such disingenuous sophistry tells me that you recognize this fact quite readily enough, but that your pride precludes you from admitting the obvious.
Why are you so emotionally charged about this. There is no reason to get so emotionally charged about this. Reasonable, rational people can disagree without getting emotionally charged about it. If the democrat protesters couldn't contain their emotions and control their angry outbursts they should stay away from children.
Why are you so emotionally charged about this. There is no reason to get so emotionally charged about this. Reasonable, rational people can disagree without getting emotionally charged about it. If the democrat protesters couldn't contain their emotions and control their angry outbursts they should stay away from children.
RIGHT. They should stay away from the children that the Conservative parents WILLINGLY put into harms way in the FIRST PLACE.
Well put, James, well put. NOW you're getting it.
It is a park across the street from a school. It's kind of the natural place to find children. But of course that is the point I guess. Exactly where the pedophiles, atheists and democrats would be lying in wait for them. Now I see. You should hide your children in the closet so predators like that won't be able to find them. Seriously. Listen to yourself. Get help. Your mind is broken.
James, your emotion is getting the best of you. Perhaps you'd better have a stiff drink before we continue….? Most pedophiles are Republican, and actually, if the public record counts for anything, priests–i.e., religious people.
Blah, blah, blah…
Have you heard of hyperbole? What about sarcasm? The point was that you describe the hecklers as predators who were baited in and compelled to do what they did by the irresistible lure of children singing in public. I was drawing the comparison to pedophiles in the hopes that you would see how stupid that theory was. I guess it requires a little bit more intelligence to be aware of your own stupidity. My mistake for assuming you were mentally competent enough to see your own mistakes.
James Lightfoot "The point was that you describe the hecklers as predators who were baited in and compelled to do what they did by the irresistible lure of children singing in public."—I can't see where I made such a ridiculous assertion? You are reading what you WANT to believe, apparently? Or you lack reading comprehension?
The point of this secondary issue is that Conservative parents apparently are such bad parents that they would willfully use their own children to promote their agenda, regardless of the danger and potential emotional turmoil present to their innocent children.
Please stop trying to misrepresent my words to suit your agenda, James. You are being no better than your puppet-masters.
Is that Vanilla Ice?
Where were the Politically Correct police to arrest these wacko's bullying and cussing at school children!
Where were the Politically Correct police to arrest these wacko's bullying and cussing at school children!
I like the guy with the neck tattoo. What a low life lol.
The ignorance of those people heckling those kids is so appalling it is not funny. But it makes me proud to see those same kids are able see that one guy is a complete idiot who hates his nation and drowns him out with chants of "USA, USA, USA". That one woman who said that this about the children and how they shouldn't be used as musical instruments should have looked at the man in the black shirt and scolded him for looking at those same children yelling "Burn in hell" for that man is not a man. Calling that guy a piss poor excuse for a man is an insult to men that are piss poor excuses for men.
The thing is though, no one is heckling the kids, they're heckling the adults. The protesters are mad because the kids are being used as pawns in a political agenda,. Notice that the kids are also not the ones that started chanting "USA", the chant was started by what sounds like the guy in the beige shirt.
That said, the protesters are definitely NOT helping things, especially by yelling out things like "burn in hell" whether it's directed to the children or not.
Your an idiot…The hecklers are just like you!!! If you don't like it here LEAVE!!!!!!!Please…
Jerry Jacoba Jr . Jerry they are also frighning and heckling the kids.
Debra Swartzlander . You Ok? Who are you talking to?????????
Oh they definitely are, the kids look so uncomfortable and maybe even a little bit scared. I know if I was their age and didn't understand why somebody had a problem with me singing a song like that I'd be pretty upset.
Were I present I'd have pulled aside one of the adults organizing this thing and asked them if maybe they could pick a better venue or better approach to this, because as things currently stand they're being dangled out like bait for a bunch of piranhas in a political war that has nothing to do with them.
They shouldn't be put into the middle of this and I feel like all of the adults present were at fault. The organizers for knowing what would happen if they put the kids up to this, and the protesters for not thinking more carefully about the feelings of the children.
You have sunk pretty low when your protesting 5 year olds singing God Bless America.
I think the progressive fascists are losing it. The know that the fascist in chief is going to get fired soon. He has become a tyrannt and its the duty of American citizens to stop him ASAP.
Jerry Jacoba Jr WRONG WATCH AGAIN! THAT POS BLACK GUY LOOKED RIGHT AT THE KIDS AND SAID "You all are going to burn in hell. You all burn in hell. ". WHAT A WORTHLESS POS!! ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS!!!
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
Jerry Jacoba Jr There is absolutely nothing controversial about this song unless you hate America and don't want children to like the country they live in. These protesters are sickening. I honestly don't see how you can defend this. The parents thought it was absurd that the kids would not be allowed to sing the song so they put together an event to let the kids sing it. Why would anyone have a problem with it? It is a great song with a very positive message. Do democrats hate America? And what is a "republican area" and why don't you do this here? What is racist about God Bless the USA? The protest makes no sense. It is just mindless hate hurled at children.
James, you seem at least somewhat sane, so I will address this response to you. The fact is that all of you here who are in faux "outrage" about this song have been–as I predicted–PLAYED FOR FOOLS by the Conservative Big Media, who are desperate to remove Obama from office.
Kudos to Howard Aubrey for putting up this link, which I will place again: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=2
The article reads, in part: "Since September 2009, Ms. Hawkins, a former French teacher who worked in the New York City school system for 18 years, has served as the principal of Public School 90, an elementary school in Coney Island, Brooklyn, where attacks against her have had an eerie constancy.
"The latest of these transpired this past week, as various news outlets deploying Tea Party memes brought Ms. Hawkins dubious national attention, portraying her as an invidious enemy of patriotism. The catalyst for this deluge was her decision to cut from a roster of songs to be performed at a coming end-of-year kindergarten ceremony the country singer Lee Greenwood’s “God Bless the U.S.A.”
"Ms. Hawkins’s rationale for excising the song, Jessica Scaperotti, a spokeswoman for the Education Department said, had to do with the belief that its opening lines, in their suggestion of dramatic misfortune, might unsettle 5-year-old minds. In the same way you might not want a stage full of kindergartners to perform Merle Haggard’s ballads of loneliness, you might opt to have them skip a song that introduces visions of sudden and annihilating material adversity: “If tomorrow all the things were gone/I’d worked for all my life…”
"But soon enough, we were treated to headlines and blog posts like this ungrammatical one from The Washington Times: “NYC School System and Greta Hawkins Supports Un-Americanism.” A Facebook page created by a self-described veteran who said he did not live in New York aimed to have the principal removed from her position.
At the same time, Mr. Greenwood, whose claim to moral supremacy might be challenged on the grounds that he has been married four times, took repeated opportunity to denounce the principal in the news media, saying that her decision offended him “as a Christian.”
"The most vexing part of all this, though, involves the claim that Ms. Hawkins sought to replace “God Bless the U.S.A.” with Justin Bieber’s “Baby.” On June 9, The New York Post proclaimed the switch, attributing it to no one. (Ms. Hawkins has refrained from speaking with the press, and did not talk to me.) The assertion is categorically untrue, Ms. Scaperotti said. Reviewing a list of songs for the ceremony, Ms. Hawkins removed both “God Bless the U.S.A.” and “Baby” at the same time. This hardly seemed to matter, though, as the story gained a momentum of its own with assistance from Fox News, The Huffington Post and various other outlets.
"Early last week, Representative Michael G. Grimm, who represents parts of Staten Island and Brooklyn, could be heard delivering his outrage regardless of the actual trajectory of events: “The fact that the principal nixed the performance of this patriotic, G-rated song while permitting an inane and age-inappropriate Justin Bieber song about teenage romance,” he said, “only underscores my concern about the skewed views being forced on these students.”
THIS IS MANUFACTURED CRAP! More "religious war" baiting, and ironically, probably a good example of ACTUAL religious intolerance aimed against a Jehovah's Witness by Christians who have some sort of a vendetta.
Please restore my faith in humanity a bit and confirm that your initial impression of this deliberately, cynically-manufactured hoohah was misinformed? People with Conservative leanings are being DELIBERATELY LIED TO in order to inflame and manipulate your emotions. BY YOUR OWN PARTY.
So the total rationale for opposing the song is that it tells people that they can overcome adversity and poverty to rebuild their life as long as they are free. Yeah, that's such a terrible message for children. Everyone knows that children never have hard lives. What the hell is wrong with you? If anyone is being duped it is you. I actually think it is good for kids to know that material loss is not the end of the world. Any kids that have parents who have lost a job would be encouraged to know that here in America they can recover and rebuild.
I'm not opposed to the song, I like this song, I've sang it at fireworks presentations for the 4th of July since I was like 3, I have no problem with kids singing it… As I've said, what I'm opposed to is using kids as leverage and shoving them into the middle of a political war that they'd probably rather not be a part of, which is exactly what's happened here. Look beneath the surface of what is presented here, it's rabble-rousing and using children as both the means and bait. The protesters took the bait and the kids are now stuck in the middle of it all, I feel for them.
@ Jerry, why do you believe the kids are being used as pawns? Because they are singing a song signifying their pride for their country? This is what is wrong with our country today. Everything has to have a motive/agenda. I remember singing "This Land is Your Land", at a school event when I was in grammar school. There was no agenda, just a school program, and a song about pride of our country! Our country is going downhill rapidly, when 5 year old children are being heckled by adults, for singing a song about the love of the USA!
James, then LET THE PARENT TEACH THE KIDS THAT AT HOME, each according to their own ability to assimilate those adult concepts. As I said, kids at that young age have a remarkable ability to dissemble and ponder concepts that we take for granted as harmless, and to inject unreasonable fear into them. Kudos to this principle and mother for being such a thoughtful person.
In any case, what's significant about this story is NOT that this principal made a simple judgment call that you may or may not disagree with–it's the fact that it's been SOLD TO YOU as a "religious" case, and that it has been deliberately exaggerated to get people of your ilk purposefully outraged–because we all know, when you engage your emotions, your logical brain goes out the window. And that's what the Right wing wants when you step into the voting booth.
No zizzer, your logical brain went out the window the second you started defending this and brushing it off as no big deal. The fact that they are yelling at children to go to hell is completely unbelievable. You are seriously sick in the head if you think this is ok. Please do not ever reproduce.
Jerry Jacoba Jr I still don't get what your problem is. These kids were NOT being used as "bait". Nobody invited these protesters. Your logic makes no sence. You keep pointing out that the kids were scared. Of course they were. There was a bunch of strangers yelling and cursing at them. You should be ashamed of yourself for defending these bullys.
These parents of these kids thought the song was appropriate for their kids to sing. They didn't do it at the school they did it off school grounds. And rather than letting children sing a song in a public place these filthy, disgusting, inhuman scum bags heckled them and told them to burn in hell. How you can defend this is beyond comprehension. When you say that people should only express their beliefs at home you are basically saying that there should be no first amendment. It seems that your ego is so fragile that hearing people express thoughts that don't match your own threatens the fabric of your reality. Get over it. The whole world doesn't have to agree with you. Even when you disagree with people's beliefs you can be respectful and courteous.
These parents of these kids thought the song was appropriate for their kids to sing. They didn't do it at the school they did it off school grounds. And rather than letting children sing a song in a public place these filthy, disgusting, inhuman scum bags heckled them and told them to burn in hell. How you can defend this is beyond comprehension. When you say that people should only express their beliefs at home you are basically saying that there should be no first amendment. It seems that your ego is so fragile that hearing people express thoughts that don't match your own threatens the fabric of your reality. Get over it. The whole world doesn't have to agree with you. Even when you disagree with people's beliefs you can be respectful and courteous.
I don't agree with heckling kids at all, James. Kids are too fragile to handle that. But guess who put those kids in harm's way? Who was thinking about their own agenda and satisfaction over those of the kids?
Answer–the A-HOLES who orchestrated this cheap political theatre in the FIRST PLACE.
I think I answered before that you're still free to express you religion or patriotism anywhere you want in America–you're just not supposed to try to inject your beliefs into those places or situations where you're compelling other people to engage them.
And did you get the memo? This was NEVER ABOUT "patriotism" or "God bless" ANYTHING. This was about a thoughtful teacher making a judgment call about lyrics that she thought were a little too "heady" for young minds to have to ponder. The puppeteers behind this shameful cynical political ploy have turned it into a sham to fill their own agenda–and used innocent kids to do that.
I don't agree with heckling kids at all, James. Kids are too fragile to handle that. But guess who put those kids in harm's way? Who was thinking about their own agenda and satisfaction over those of the kids?
Answer–the A-HOLES who orchestrated this cheap political theatre in the FIRST PLACE.
I think I answered before that you're still free to express you religion or patriotism anywhere you want in America–you're just not supposed to try to inject your beliefs into those places or situations where you're compelling other people to engage them.
And did you get the memo? This was NEVER ABOUT "patriotism" or "God bless" ANYTHING. This was about a thoughtful teacher making a judgment call about lyrics that she thought were a little too "heady" for young minds to have to ponder. The puppeteers behind this shameful cynical political ploy have turned it into a sham to fill their own agenda–and used innocent kids to do that.
Who cares if it was political. It was people freely expressing themselves in a peaceful respectful way that made everyone feel good. The parents were protesting the decision of the principal, who is an idiot, to ban a song that is completely appropriate for the kids. As a simple show of defiance, they got their kids together to sing the song the school denied them. The only politics of it were the parents defying the stupid knee jerk reactionary policy of an educator going too far. Yes, they wanted to get on TV to prove a point that the principal was being irrational. That point was driven home by the disgusting thugs that showed up to shout them down. It was supposed to just be a demonstration that the kids can in fact sing the song without being harmed by it. Those who disagreed, apparently thought they had to step in and inflict harm on the children for daring to sing a song their leaders told them was bad. They are thugs and bullies. How can you defend this?
I don't defend the protestors, James. NOT AT ALL, not in the least. I think they let their emotions get the better of them and THAT superseded any good judgment that they might've had left.
But please, James. These same damned parents who you pretend to care SO MUCH about their kids welfare that they supposedly wanted to show "that the kids can in fact sing the song without being harmed by it" PUT THEIR KIDS IN HARM'S WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE!
THAT is the crux of the issue here. And YOU said it YOURSELF: "As a simple show of defiance, they got their kids together to sing the song the school denied them." –EXACTLY! Hard-headed, prideful (not "proud"–BIG difference!) numbskulls who USED THE KIDS to push THEIR agenda.
I blame the parents. You know what? If they wanted to make some statement of defiance, THEY should have gotten together and sung the damned song in a group BY THEMSELVES. NOT by using their poor kids! I mean, what's next? Sending the kids out to stand in protest lines with placards on them? Oh wait–I've seen some idiots do that too!
Saying they put their kids in harm's way is like saying that girls who wear skimpy clothes deserve to be raped. We should be able to gather in a park and sing without being in danger. The criminals and thugs make it dangerous, not the parents and children singing a song.
Saying they put their kids in harm's way is like saying that girls who wear skimpy clothes deserve to be raped. We should be able to gather in a park and sing without being in danger. The criminals and thugs make it dangerous, not the parents and children singing a song.
Saying they put their kids in harm's way is like saying that girls who wear skimpy clothes deserve to be raped. We should be able to gather in a park and sing without being in danger. The criminals and thugs make it dangerous, not the parents and children singing a song.
I gotta admit, James; your "logic" in that first zinger you wrote about girls being raped—if there's any dubious "logic" at all –completely escapes me. Perhaps I'm not dealing with the intelligence that I thought I was.
James, the parents knew EXACTLY what would happen if they led the kids out into a public place and had them sing the very song that had already gotten their school much national attention. It's not comparable to your rape example at all. In this case it's more like a fisherman attaching a worm to a hook, dropping it into a well-known honey hole at a lake, and then going, "Whaaaat?!?! Why are all these fish trying to eat my poor worm?! This is ridiculous, I can't believe they would do something like that to a defenseless worm that I put on a hook and dangled in front of them!!!"
The kids were told they'd get to sing that song after all, but they were never told the REAL reason why… this was all done in the interest of satisfying the parents' political agenda, the kids were used as both bait and ammo.
Donna Reith You don't have to look very far beneath the surface to see what is really going on. This isn't a protest against the song, this song has been out since 1984, nearly 30 years, yet this is the first time you see a protest against it isn't it? The fact is, this DID have a motive/agenda behind it.
I'm willing to bet that when you sang "This Land is Your Land" your principal hadn't caused the school to make national news just a short time earlier by denying your right to sing it due to the presence of the word "God" in the lyrics (not that that word is in the lyrics anyway, I'm just making a parallel) and instead had you all substitute it for some trashy pop song by a current teen idol. I'm also willing to bet that the country at the time was not in the midst of some of the most politically tumultuous times due to the citizens being divided over partisanship, overwhelming dissatisfaction with the actions of the current elected officials, a near-depressed economy, and overly-sensitive political correctness causing offenses left and right to the most prominent religion in this entire country over the past decade or so. Interestingly, I'm fairly certain that having a bunch of schoolchildren these days sing "This Land is Your Land" would bring quite a bit of hell from the political right due to its communist undertones.
Anyway, the article title would have you believe that it was a simple presentation by some school students and that some big jerks came along and ruined it. The fact of the matter is, this was a political theater organized by the parents of the children as well as some of the teachers it appears. The kids were used to push the political agenda of the parents in this instance, against their knowledge, just because they didn't have a full grasp of the current political atmosphere in this country. See my previous example of the fisherman and the worm.
Jeff Coil, of course these kids were being used as bait. Do you honestly believe the parents intended for them to sing this song to a wall or an empty street? They were looking for an audience, and they knew that this would be a very politically charged event as well due to the current circumstances surrounding the whole graduation song debacle. They knew EXACTLY what would happen if they had the kids do this. I'm not saying the protesters were right to make things worse, as I've stated like 30 times already, I'm simply saying that this is not a mere issue of "Gee those guys really hate that song." as everyone seems to believe… thanks in part to the extremely misleading article title.
Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz There was no "harms way" until the adults STARTED yelling at the kids, thus escalating a PEACEFUL situation into a VIOLENT situation.
Today I, along with 32 of my neighbors and friends, will be taking our children to the local park to sing this song (all perfectly legal btw). Please tell me what "harms way" we are placing our kids in?
Also, where was your outrage when a SCHOOL TEACHER was teaching her very young students a little song that went "barrack hussein obama…MMM MMM MMM"?
You are asserting that parents should know it is dangerous to allow children to sing in public. That just by taking your kids out of the house you are throwing them to the mercy of thugs and miscreants. They were within their rights and not doing anyone any harm. To suggest that the kids were used as bait to attract these thugs and miscreants is the same as suggesting that a woman who wears skimpy clothes is trying to attract a rapist. It is frankly disgusting that you would make such a suggestion and even more disturbing if you are doing it and don't even know it.
James, it's frankly disturbing to me how twisted is the pathway from "ludicrous" to "logical" is in your arguments about rape. To be honest, it is frankly disgusting that you would make such a suggestion and even more disturbing if you are doing it and don't even know it.
And the fact stands that a responsible, thoughtful parent would not have condescended to letting their kids be in ANY kind of such a highly-charged atmosphere such as this. Come on, James–who do you think you're fooling? You're acting like you don't get the concept of good parenting—or….don't you?
Concede the point already and move on. The parents were stupid to use their kids. Frankly, I think everyone here would respect you more if you did.
I won't concede the point because it is irrational. Even if it was a politically motivated demonstration it was harmless. Parents took their kids to a park under their direct supervision to sing a song. Why would there be any reason to assume that kids would be attacked for singing a song in the park. We allegedly live in civilization. Are you suggesting that everyone should know that democrats are too dangerous to let your children out where they might be seen or heard by one? The thugs who accosted these kids were filthy scum sucking miscreants. What you are suggesting is that we should accept the fact that thugs and miscreants make the streets of America too dangerous to take your kids to the park. So parents should hide their children in the attic when the democrats come hunting them down in the street? I suppose if you were a Jew in Nazi Germany then a wise parent would keep their kids out of the park. I really didn't think America had gotten that bad.
I think most of the people here agree with me that the parents did nothing wrong and that you are insane. Even most of the liberals agree that the parents were not hurting anyone by letting their kids sing in the park. The delusional fringe that agrees with you is very small.
You are apparently incapable of seeing through your blinding ideology, James. The parents DID INDEED do something wrong–they put their kids into an emotional-charged political situation in order to promote their radical agenda.
The fact that you don't see anything wrong with that speaks volumes about you. You would, presumably, use your children in the same way? Thank Trojan that you don't ave any kids to exploit and use in such a shamefully-opportunistic manner.
What radical agenda was being promoted? All I see is the radical idea that the song "God Bless the USA" is in fact appropriate for children. If there is some other hidden agenda, please spell it out for me so I can understand the source of your hate. I'm open to hearing it. What was the great threat these people posed by singing a song in the park?
What radical agenda was being promoted? All I see is the radical idea that the song "God Bless the USA" is in fact appropriate for children. If there is some other hidden agenda, please spell it out for me so I can understand the source of your hate. I'm open to hearing it. What was the great threat these people posed by singing a song in the park?
The "radical agenda" James, is the willful promotion of a hateful, divisive agenda that is based upon deliberately-fallacious information. The hateful, divisive agenda is to convince paranoid religious people that there is a "War on religion" so that the can not only sell their conveniently "available now!" books and other tripe to you, but also to sell you the idea that the part of he population which is fighting to protect ALL religious liberty (by resisting the domination by ONE creed) is somehow "against you".
Are you getting tired yet of pushing the "singing a song" canard? How much longer can you continue to flog this dead horse?
The only hateful divisive agenda I see is yours. You push your creed as the only one acceptable but you claim your creed is not a creed. You are not supporting liberty of anyone. You are trying to restrict liberty. You are everything you pretend to hate.
Were they not singing a song in the park? That sure looked like what they were doing. Perhaps you watched a different video than I did. I saw the one with kids and grown ups singing "God Bless the USA" and being heckled, insulted and cursed at by scum sucking pigs who, while you claim not to support them, seem to have the same ideology as you. Note that I've never claimed they broke any laws. They have freedom of speech too. It was just uncivil behavior. What video did you watch? Was there a song in it?
The only hateful divisive agenda I see is yours. You push your creed as the only one acceptable but you claim your creed is not a creed. You are not supporting liberty of anyone. You are trying to restrict liberty. You are everything you pretend to hate.
Were they not singing a song in the park? That sure looked like what they were doing. Perhaps you watched a different video than I did. I saw the one with kids and grown ups singing "God Bless the USA" and being heckled, insulted and cursed at by scum sucking pigs who, while you claim not to support them, seem to have the same ideology as you. Note that I've never claimed they broke any laws. They have freedom of speech too. It was just uncivil behavior. What video did you watch? Was there a song in it?
James, again, I question your mental stability, as this whole red herring about the "protesters" is a non-issue, and furthermore, one in which I have ALREADY expressed a sympathetic view with you. EARTH TO JAMES: YES, the protesters sucked! But SO DID THE KIDS' PARENTS for using them as innocent pawns.
And James, your first paragraph is just empty bloviating. I seek to restrict no one from their rights–but you don't seem to know — or CARE — what is a 'right" and what is an "imposition" Perhaps you only see "hate" in my agenda because you ae unable to process the fact that some other reality and truth exists beyond your own?
And once again you betray your pedestrian lack-of-knowledge of what TRUE "religious liberty" means. The concept is as deep and as significant as "Freedom", and you should study the history of the early colonies to learn how when one religion was given prominence in one colony or another, the FIRST people to be ostracized, banished, locked-up or outright killed were people of OTHER faiths! The lesson being that ALL religion must be valued equally, with no preference given to one or the other, THIS IS THE VERY FOUNDATION FOR THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
How in the world do democrats get to run around pretending they're compassionate and care for everyone when, in reality, many democrats are the most ignorant, rude, uninformed, and mean-spirited people in America?! This is why democrats need to be beaten from the top to the bottom of the ballot. They're bullies, liars, and petulant children.
I'm a liberal, and I disagree with this. I don't lump all conservatives together, so don't do it to us.
This entire ordeal is sad, regardless of who is doing it. People need to have some damn class and some respect. So sad.
Heidi- I certainly don't disagree with your second statement. And I'm very glad to see that you oppose this sort of behavior. That's just common decency.
The point I was making is that the liberal media consistently gets away with the portrayal that right-of-center people are insensitive, while the left carries out this kind of disgusting behavior. You've got to realize that if these were religious-right adult protesters screaming at pro-choice activist children the majority of the media would be calling for the end of free speech. Call a spade a spade and admit that the establishment media is incredibly biased. These people were completely unjustified in protesting school children singing a patriotic song. That's just mean.
Heidi- I certainly don't disagree with your second statement. And I'm very glad to see that you oppose this sort of behavior. That's just common decency.
The point I was making is that the liberal media consistently gets away with the portrayal that right-of-center people are insensitive, while the left carries out this kind of disgusting behavior. You've got to realize that if these were religious-right adult protesters screaming at pro-choice activist children the majority of the media would be calling for the end of free speech. Call a spade a spade and admit that the establishment media is incredibly biased. These people were completely unjustified in protesting school children singing a patriotic song. That's just mean.
These people were completely USING THEIR KIDS to push their agenda. I mean, what the hell kind of parent WILLFULLY puts their kids smack-dab in the middle of something so socially controversial and emotional?
The protesters were out of line and ignorant and offensive–but their damned parents should NEVER have put those sweet kids in that arena in the FIRST PLACE!
Zizzer- the parents never should have put their children in what position? A position where they were singing "God Bless the USA"? Please, tell me….what's so wrong with that? You don't think it's wrong that the school, apparently, thought the song was too controversial? Explain to me the problem with patriotism…
Gordon, don't be so facetiously ignorant. The parents put their wholly-innocent kids in a position to be used to promoting the PARENT'S agenda–one that was based ENTIRELY on erroneous, manufactured misinformation. Did you read the article that exposes how this whole kerfuffle was manufactured and baked to perfection in a Rightwing pressure cooker? Here– http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=3 –indulge yourself.
This principal apparently made a judgment call that had NOTHING to do with "patriotism" OR "God". She thought that the concept of "losing everything you worked for" might frighten a young, uncomprehending mind with vivid imagination–something to which I can attest from experience with kids. The Rightwing picked this story up, DELIBERATELY misrepresented it, and now here's these innocent kids beings made a tool of a rightwing agenda. Honestly, it makes me sick and sad.
The more you keep prattling on about "patriotism", the more you're showing your willingness to promote a completely false presumption that has a cynical and divisive agenda, period. These kids should NEVER have been stuck on display on the street–with a freaking politician no less! Talk about a contemptible piece of opportunistic political theatre!
Zizzer- ok, even if I take what you said at face value, the fact remains that these *adults* stood there and HECKLED *children*. Even if your story is 100% true, and you're SOOOO concerned with the damage that could be done to these children, what makes you think these adults screaming insults at them is ok? Do you not see the harm in that?!
Gordon- I am calling a spade a spade. That's why, as a liberal, I disagree with this whole thing. I can see right and wrong, clearly. I know some wonderful conservatives and some wonderful liberals. It's sad that the only ones who ever seem to get media coverage are whacked nut jobs like the people in this video. What did they think their screaming was gonna accomplish? I hate this behavior on both sides… It makes us look like a bunch of immature, whining brats. Too bad the good people in this country- the hard working Americans that love their country- are the ones who suffer for it.
Heidi North-McKown No problem with all liberals, just the morons who hate the song "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" so much.. that they will yell at little kids for singing it !! That's what has everyone here all fired up !! I mean can anyone explain to me what is so bad about that Lee Greenwood song and what Ideals are so bad that anyone can possibly hate it , so much, that they will stoop to the outrageous behavior of yelling and heckling FIVE YEAR OLDS??? Seriously !! I mean, anyone who despises that song that much, really should look for another country to live in !!! GOD BLESS THE USA !!!
John- you and I see eye to eye!
John Rivera, this song has been out for how many years now?… and exactly how many times have you seen people protesting a performance of it? As many have mentioned on here, it is not hate for the song that's the issue, nor is that what the protesters are even yelling about. It's that they're using kids as tools to push a political message.
Most of the protesters are very clear in that they disagree with a political demonstration in which the adults/parents are, to quote one of the protesters, "using the kids as pawns". It's in the video. The majority of the video is the protesters heckling the PARENTS who put them up to this. I see only a couple of occasions where any of the protesters even directly address the kids, that's why you hear the kid scream "Don't talk to my momma that way!" at one point.
All of that said, the protesters should have thought for a second about how the kids might have felt. They probably just wanted to sing a song, not realizing how politically charged their performance might have been due to their principal's recent actions, and then they go out there expecting to sing something and are suddenly swarmed by adults yelling at each other on all sides. I'll agree with the protesters in that kids should be allowed to be kids and they shouldn't be thrust into a situation like that, however, the protesters weren't helping things AT ALL and were doing just as much damage.
As I've said many times on this forum already, which seems to have gone largely ignored, shame on everyone involved for putting the kids through this. Both the parents/adults that decided to hang them out like bait, and the protesters who didn't once think about the feelings of the children and how much they might be affecting them by screaming things like "burn in hell!" over their heads at the adults involved. The kids were thrust into the middle of this partisan war/political debacle and they didn't even see it coming, they probably STILL don't even fully understand what was happening that day. Every single adult there should be ashamed. Those kids shouldn't have ever been put through that.
I don't get what is political about PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN ??? Where is the politics in that song ??? If you are an American, then there should be no problem with any group singing that song anywhere in the US !!! Period !! Where is the politically charged message ??? That's what I don't get ??? Enlighten us as to the politically charged elements of that song ??? Because when kids sing.. PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN / and / GOD BLESS THE USA.. I don't see the politics in that ??? At least not in this country !!
Jerry Jacoba Jr I do agree, that kids should not be used as political pawns by adults, however.. I don't see that as what happened here. Parents did NOT agree with the principal not allowing the singing of this song at the graduation, and some parents did not agree with that. Again, the principal only said that the song had "concepts" that were not age appropriate for the kids, but did not single out what elements of PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, were not age appropriate !!! To me.. that's where the trouble starts !! I think the principal does NOT want her students singing a song that professes PRIDE in the USA and sings about GOD BLESSING THE USA …. that's what I think !!! Because her explanation is void of any concrete explanation as to why kindergartners can NOT sing that song??? REALLY makes me wonder about the principals attitudes toward this great country !!!
What kind of parents use their innocent children as pawns to further an agenda? SHAMEFUL!!!
Heidi North-McKown If you agree with John, then you, as well, are misinformed. Read the timeline and backstory to how this entire manufactured incident was created by the Rightwing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/nyregion/greta-hawkins-a-principal-trampled-in-the-rush-to-vilify.html?_r=4
THIS HAD N-O-T-H-I-N-G TO DO WITH EITHER GOD, RELIGION, OR COUNTRY. It's all about making a certain voting block angry and stoling that anger so that they don't listen to the destructive, self-enriching agenda being pursued on the Right.
Dont encourage the knuckle draggers Heidi.. it only makes them worse. today its god bless America in the schools, tomorrow its forced prayers. the day after that it is the bible replcaing biology and history classes….they know that is what their goal is, and we have to stop them at the door. The protestors did the right thing…keep these unibrow superstitious types at bay. connecting their love of god to love of country only convinces small minded people. These kids need to quit public school and go to a religious school so they can have their witch doctors fuck their brains up.
Zizzer- how can you say the right is pursuing a "destructive, self-enriching agenda" when the democrat agenda since 2006 has been to destroy any vestige of traditional Americana (illustrated by the protesters in this video) and to spend us into oblivion with new entitlement programs and by enriching their cronies in the failed green energy business (Obama with Solyndra)? That sounds pretty destructive and self-enriching to me.
The left DOES NOT own compassion or altruism. In fact, they're not even borrowing it! You wanna talk about politicians using angry people to shore up a voting bloc? How about Obama's comments toward the gay community? Or his unilateral amnesty for illegal immigrants? The democrat party has used people, like union workers, for GENERATIONS to manufacture outrage, fill their campaign coffers, and secure disgruntled votes. Now, I don't believe at all that that's what these children were used for but, even if they were, it's funny to see how outraged most liberals become when they perceive their own tactics being used against them.
Gordon I am with you ONE HUNDRED PERCENT about these idiots taking their anger out at kids. I don't support it on EITHER side; simply put, they should've acted like adults!
Zizzer, you are still wrong. There was nothing wrong with letting kids sing a song. I think you have had your brain damaged in some way that you think Republicans are evil in some way. Perhaps you hate capitalism, free markets and individual liberty, I don't know what gets your panties in a twist about "THE RIGHT" but it is generating an irrational fear that is making you insane. Seek help.
BOWING to the all-mighty maha -rishi Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz !!! YO! OK… I will respectfully say that we agree to disagree here. But don't resort to name calling. I asked a simple question that you or Jeremy refused to answer. WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH THE SONG "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" ??? Jeremy kinda hates it because it references GOD BLESS the USA , but you have never said what your problem with the song is ??? I'm as informed as you are Zizzer… I just choose to not agree with your position on this matter. Its that simple !!! I don't have a problem with the singing of GOD BLESS AMERICA or GOD BLESS THE USA in public schools !!! You apparently do, or you would not be defending the morons who heckled five year old kids like a bunch of fools. And what is wrong with a liberal and a conservative agreeing on something like Heidi and I did? You basically called her ignorant too !!! So anyone who disagrees with you, or your position , is not only wrong, they are foolish and ignorant !!! Believe me I'm very familiar with this position because I lived in LA for the last 12 years and became very familiar with the liberal rant. You're free to say what you want and what you feel, so long as it agrees with us !!! Some freedom of speech you guys have !!! Oh well… this is America, and not everyone is going to agree with everyone. AMEN, or so be it! That's the beauty of this nation. WE DON'T always have to agree on every topic or any topic, and it should resort to threats of violence or even actual violence. That's what freedom of expression is all about. But you should NOT accuse one side of being close minded or ignorant , simply because they choose to exercise a view point on a subject that may not be in complete agreement with you. That's how we keep this thing civil !!! Otherwise, it will be reduced to heckling and name calling . (AS it was with the public demonstration with the kids singing "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN".) I've asked questions to try and get a better understanding of your position, and Jeremy's… all I have received in return is Liberal and atheist talking points about how the song, GOD BLESS THE USA is offensive. So I guess it just is best to stop here since we seem to be at an impasse !!! Thanks for your input.
John Rivera
All these attacks from these individuals can be summed up with this phrase, "If your not with us, then your against us." To simply disagree or have a difference of opinion, minus the smartass talk and insults, still means open season in the mind of these people. You cant reason with them, just put up with for as long as it takes otherwise its just better to ignore them and let them believe that they're right. All I got to say is what a difference a few decades make from when we were in school all the way up to this point.
John Rivera – You can agree to disagree. I agree that you are flat out wrong. I have made it very clear what is wrong with the song several times on this site… we dont want YOUR religion in OUR school. Tying your religion up and equating it with patriotism may fool you, but it doesnt fool intelligent people who can see past falacious arguments. How about "Satan bless the USA?" Surely you would support that as patriotic, and anyone opposed to the song must obviously hate Satan amiright? Wait, you dont like that? You can see the trick in it now and you arent falling for it? Welcome to the club. Wrapping your bible up in an american flag does not stop me from unwrapping the flag and tossing your bible into the river. The bible and America are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. will you have a problem singing "Satan bless the USA" or will you be an america hater and oppose the song?
John Rivera – how about "Allah bless the USA"? A bunch of kids on prayer rugs in front of a public school singing about allah and equating such a song to patriotism. Well, if you hate "Allah bless the USA" then you obviously not only hate Allah, but you are also an America hater…yeah…this game doesnt fool me. It may fool you. It may fool people like you, but I thing deeper than the surface on issues, and I can see the manipulation and politics involved in this, and I find it revolting that right wing politicians are using children to play this sort of biased game….. when it comes to using children to fool people with a political agenda you can count me out. I dont abuse children
Jeremy… if you are suggesting that you would take the bible from the American Flag and "toss it in the river", then… you really have not read the pre-amble , the US Constitution, the declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights !!! The founding fathers were all very much GOD believing and GOD fearing men, who used the Bible and prayer for guidance as they wrote the foundation of this nation. You CAN'T separate the two, no matter how much you hate GOD. The two are intertwined ! The INALIENABLE RIGHTS that they spoke about and wrote into the declaration of Independence , as well as the Bill of Rights, were rights bestowed by the CREATOR !!! And BECAUSE they fully believed that GOD gave those rights to man, that no man, can take those rights away. Life , Liberty and pursuit of Happiness !! So if you would throw the bible out of the American Flag, you must also try and do the same with the rights that the founding fathers all wrote about in the greatest documents ever published as the foundation of a nation. The rights as they saw it, were bestowed by the creator and therefore, no man could ever take them away. That's the difference between the American Revolution and the French Revolution. (And we have seen how well that revolution worked out in France). The bible is a strong reference point of guidance that our Founding Fathers used to assemble the rights you have enjoyed here, as well as I have and all Americans, since this country's inception . They were rights bestowed by the creator, as the founding fathers saw it, they didn't say you have to believe that point, but because they chose that path, the foundation of this great nation has endured for more than 200 years !! No other nation on earth has enjoyed that same length of stability !!! So it really is the atheist , who is at odds with this country's foundation, which is fundamentally rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs and values, no matter how much you try to deny that. Sorry, but if you would unwrap the American Flag from the Bible and toss it in the river, then you must also do that with the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution and the pre-amble !! Just an FYI !!!
Jeremy Martin- no one ever said you have to be a Christian to be an American, but Christianity IS an inseparable influence on our founding documents. You're completely free to practice any faith or no faith, no one is begrudging you that. But to say that Christianity has nothing to do with our nation as founded is flat out wrong.
John Rivera- here, here! Agreed!
John Rivera – I have read those documents John. None of them mention Jesus or a personal God, but dont let that stop you fantasies. Might I also point out that the founding fathers also owned humans as property (slaves), and those who were not white wealthy land owners were not allowed to vote or run for office. They also believed that sickness was caused by "bad blood" and would be lanced for a cure. Thomas Jefferson openly mocked Christianity, and many of the other founders went to church much, if at all. Benjamin Franklin was very critical of a personal God and used to employ whores when he traveled to Europe. Thomas Jefferson said the first Amendment was to be a "wall of seperation" between church and state. No creator created those bill of rights, we have vast piles of evidence showing that HUMANS created those bill of rights, and if you think otherwise then you are sorely ignorant.
John Rivera – I have read those documents John. None of them mention Jesus or a personal God, but dont let that stop you fantasies. Might I also point out that the founding fathers also owned humans as property (slaves), and those who were not white wealthy land owners were not allowed to vote or run for office. They also believed that sickness was caused by "bad blood" and would be lanced for a cure. Thomas Jefferson openly mocked Christianity, and many of the other founders went to church much, if at all. Benjamin Franklin was very critical of a personal God and used to employ whores when he traveled to Europe. Thomas Jefferson said the first Amendment was to be a "wall of seperation" between church and state. No creator created those bill of rights, we have vast piles of evidence showing that HUMANS created those bill of rights, and if you think otherwise then you are sorely ignorant.
Gordon Bull Then you must show me where Christianity, Jesus, and such are mentioned in the constitution and the dec of independence. Just a mention of Jesus or Christianity being our foundation in any one of them would be fine (you will not find it, because I, unlike you, have read those documents and I know there is no mention of them). The treaty of Tripoli, signed by many founding fathers, states that "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." *** So here we have SEVERAL founding fathers signing a bill that tells people the government of America is in no way founded on christianity…I tend to put MUCH weight on what they said then what people like you say. My statement will hold up in a court of law. Yours would be laughed out of court.
Gordon Bull Then you must show me where Christianity, Jesus, and such are mentioned in the constitution and the dec of independence. Just a mention of Jesus or Christianity being our foundation in any one of them would be fine (you will not find it, because I, unlike you, have read those documents and I know there is no mention of them). The treaty of Tripoli, signed by many founding fathers, states that "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." *** So here we have SEVERAL founding fathers signing a bill that tells people the government of America is in no way founded on christianity…I tend to put MUCH weight on what they said then what people like you say. My statement will hold up in a court of law. Yours would be laughed out of court.
Jeremy- I said our founding fathers were undoubtedly influenced by Christianity, not that the bible or Christian faith is our founding document. When our government was established, it was established so that the government might protect the rights given to us by our CREATOR, not to allow the government to tell us which rights we're allowed to have.
You've shown your own ignorance in many ways. First, if our founding fathers were NOT basing our government and laws on Judeo-Christian philosophy, tell me….what philosophy were they basing it on? You say I haven't read our founding documents? Sir, I'm a member of Freedom Works and the Heritage Foundation. I gave away copies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights for Christmas. In fact, I have a copy of both in my pocket RIGHT NOW.
You are a presumptuous, angry, anti-american liberal. If you think islamic countries are so superior, please….go live in one. And when you get there, look me up on here and let me know how they feel about women, homosexuals, atheists, and infedels such as yourself. Oh, wait….you won't be able to look me up on here from an islamic country because they don't believe in the freedom of speech and they don't allow dissenting opinions.
Go occupy something.
Gordon Bull – No, they are not "undoubtedly influenced by Christianity", and the Treaty of Tripoli is one of many evidence for it. When they say creator, you see, you are commiting your fallacy right there. They specifically say "Natures creator". You ASSUME that is meant to mean "Jesus". It is not. The founding fathers were VERY aware of Jesus, and could have easily included him into the founding documents but DIDNT! The silence is deafening. "Natures creator" is a reference to the distant creator of Diesm that was so pupolar among the intellectual elite of that time. Diests did not believe in a "personal God", nor did they believe in miracles or the power of prayer. Anyone who reads the diaries and letters of the founding fathers are very knowledgable that the founders didnt look to kindly upon Christianity, and mostly spoke of the god of diesm, even though talks of god and religion was rare between them. I do not appreciate you calling me names, and you show a high level of ignorance just assuming that I think Islamic countries are superior? Where did you come up with that lie? Please post evidence that I said Islamic countries are superior or you will be branded as a fucking liar….go eat your own shit you lying douchewaffle…I have fact on my side, you have nothing but lies.
Jeremy- I don't need to post evidence of what you said because you already posted it.
I'm pretty sure you're in violation of the TOS here. I used no profanity and wished death on no one. You just did. As liberals usually tend to do when they're proven wrong.
Congress used to open every session with a CHRISTIAN prayer.
I've read a great many books on the revolution and our founding fathers, including their own writings. I just visited Monticello last fall. They were heavily influenced by Christianity and that is apparent to anyone who believes in actual history, not your brand of REVISIONIST history.
I couldn't care less what a mean-spirited liberal like you chooses to "brand me" as. If you hate me, I wear it as a badge of honor.
Gordon Bull – So you make up horrid lies about me, then cry like a little baby when I get upset and use big boy language on you..and you make another freaking lie. I havent wished death on anyone you asshat… You are lying saying that I wish death on people…Im blocking your sorry ass. You lie WAY to much, and quite frankly I do not appreciate the libel.
Gordon Bull
Interesting exchange between you and Germ Martin. And there he away he goes like a lily-livered sniveling milksop. I would just ignore indivuduals who think they have something to prove if it builds their ego.
A totalitarian state that restricts religious expression and strictly controls public displays or expressions of any religion not sanctioned by the state is what you propose Jeremy. What difference does it make if the state religion is Islam or atheism. The effect on people of different faiths is the same. You are saying you want a theocracy where everyone is forced to believe the same things, but you pretend your religion is not a religion so your theocracy is not a theocracy. Fine call it Atheocracy if you wish. The net effect is the same. You are no better than those who wish to impose Sharia law.
James- Very well spoken!
James, it has become clear to me that you don't understand the principle of Church/State separation at all. As I said before, this concept and reality of our founding has been consistently upheld by numerous courts time and time again. You should put some time into researching it through distinctly SECULAR sources, as I am sure at this point that maybe you're an acolyte of some contemporary Christian revisionist or demagogue who has you confused.
Seriously, no sarcasm–please look into it, because your hyperbolic statements betray a serious and nervous ignorance of what the truth is, That is why, I suspect, your reason and ability to stay focused and sincere is going off the rails.
my reasoning is my own. I've studied the constitution. I know it well. I also speak English. I'm pretty good at reading comprehension. I haven't used anything other than that. It appears you are a bit too religiously devoted to these so-called SECULAR sources. It seems to me that you are the one parroting the ideas of demagogues and refusing to think for yourself. I don't have a dog in the religious fight. I do not follow any particular faith. I'm neither atheist nor theist. I support the right of all people to believe whatever they wish and freely express those beliefs. Being atheist is not neutral on religion. It is a distinct set of beliefs. You have a right to those beliefs. You have a right to follow whatever behavioral strictures you believe you must. If that means you must never say the word God, so be it. You have no right to force others to abide by your religious taboos. Everyone else on Earth has a right to express their beliefs and use the words they choose to do so. I get that denying you have a religion is a tenet of your faith, but you are not fooling anyone but yourself. I don't care about your ridiculous superstitions. You can talk all about them and I still don't feel compelled to adopt them. Hearing what other people believe does not compel you to believe what they do. You have got to get over this.
my reasoning is my own. I've studied the constitution. I know it well. I also speak English. I'm pretty good at reading comprehension. I haven't used anything other than that. It appears you are a bit too religiously devoted to these so-called SECULAR sources. It seems to me that you are the one parroting the ideas of demagogues and refusing to think for yourself. I don't have a dog in the religious fight. I do not follow any particular faith. I'm neither atheist nor theist. I support the right of all people to believe whatever they wish and freely express those beliefs. Being atheist is not neutral on religion. It is a distinct set of beliefs. You have a right to those beliefs. You have a right to follow whatever behavioral strictures you believe you must. If that means you must never say the word God, so be it. You have no right to force others to abide by your religious taboos. Everyone else on Earth has a right to express their beliefs and use the words they choose to do so. I get that denying you have a religion is a tenet of your faith, but you are not fooling anyone but yourself. I don't care about your ridiculous superstitions. You can talk all about them and I still don't feel compelled to adopt them. Hearing what other people believe does not compel you to believe what they do. You have got to get over this.
James, please don't insult me by lying to me about your obvious Christian fidelity; I am well-enough steeped in the vernacular and arguments of Christians at this point to recognize the tactics and familiar arguments which you predictably present. I TOO used to be a Roman Catholic CHRISTIAN.
Your "reasoning" about the Constitution may be your own, but it is far from correct. Again, James—I only "parrot" the "secular" side of this argument because quite simply it is the only one which is correct. The fashion in Christian circles the last ten years has been radical revisionism that has brought the real fundamentalists out into the mainstream, and they are really doing their best to misinform and pervert their follower's already-deficient knowledge of the Church-State wall.
Again—this is NOT my "opinion". The realities that I allege have been affirmed over and over again by many courts, both large and small. I Don't shoot the messenger for the message.
A recent case in the Nederland ISD involving children handing out invitations to church events led to this decision in the courts and the school changed it's policy.
The ADF motion to dismiss noted that the district changed its position, and decided to allow the distribution of the invitations, and adjusted its policy to reflect the new standard.
The new rule states, “The district shall not discriminate based on the viewpoint, whether religious or nonreligious, expressed in private, student-to-student, non-disruptive speech.”
The school also “paid fees and costs to plaintiff’s attorneys” so no further request for any compensation was being submitted.
The ADF said the district also decided to train all administrators on the constitutionally protected rights of students to engage in religious expression at school.”
A non-applicable issue, James. The student was free to engage in religious expression. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He's expressing his beliefs. This principle has also been affirmed, but the Christian right is trying to push it as far as they can.
If it was the TEACHER inviting the kids, well, now–that would be a whole other ball of holy wax.
A non-applicable issue, James. The student was free to engage in religious expression. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He's expressing his beliefs. This principle has also been affirmed, but the Christian right is trying to push it as far as they can.
If it was the TEACHER inviting the kids, well, now–that would be a whole other ball of holy wax.
What law did the parents in the park violate? The kids? What did they do that was so vile? They disagreed with a governmental official and dared to express their disagreement. I guess that is a crime when the government is liberal.
You're stuck on stupid, James, and you're avoiding the issue.
What issue? You are ranting about nothing and pretending it is something. You can't even articulate the issue well enough for me to know what the hell it is. Spouting irrational hate is not a debate. I've articulated my views on freedom of expression and freedom of religion. I've explained why I think this was a perfectly lawful and ethical demonstration. You keep saying I'm ignoring the issue but this is the only issue. You seem to have imagined some other issue out in crazyland and are disturbed that I haven't read your crazy mind to know what the hell you think is so important. Since we've talked long enough for you to make a point if you had one I'm going to assume you have no point. You are just a rambling lunatic who wants to force everyone to be as crazy as you are.
James, you make a lot of empty accusations using hyperbolic language that is a poor substitute for rational argument. You're hysterically ranting about this ill-conceived gathering in the park where the parents used the kids in a most irresponsible way as if it has now superseded the original controversy of this sad story?.
Accusing someone of "hating" carries with it certain prerequisites to prove an animus. You cannot do that in my commentary. What you perceive as "hate" in in fact, "Truth". The fact that you perceive Truth as "hate" only underscores the intense depth of your ideological brainwashing.
I feel sorry for you, to live with such a monkey on your back and an impediment to seeing reality.
Good thing I wasn't there. Just watching this makes my blood boil. These protesters need to shut up — they are a shame to America. Let the kids sing without these big mouths showing themselves.
@ Catherine … you and me both !! I was furious when I first watched it, but was quickly turned to pride ,when I heard those kids shout USA, USA, USA !!! Right back at those heckling them !!! Beautiful !!! Shame on those so-called adults for shouting at those kids they way they were. It was a pathetic and outrageous act !!!
the kids were great.. how come the people protesting werent at work? typical liberals, go back to ows and lets these proud american children be free.
I'd love to drop those protesters into a hot LZ.
Excellent sentiment, but you'll NEVER see that type, ever do anything FOR their nation…
This is truly deplorable behavior from the Dems
This is truly deplorable behavior from the Dems
I wonder if these "Americans" would have heckled servicemen and women singing this song. Or a Seal team? Probably not. Since they are rightfully cowards, shouting at children and telling them to "burn in hell." Is that how they speak to their own children when they disagree with them? Nothing but a bunch of bullies and I guarantee their own children are the problem kids at that same school.
I agree. What's even more intriguing is the fact that that one individual said "burn in hell", thereby affirming the existence of God and contradicting their very opposition of "God Bless the USA." That's public education for you!
I wonder if these "Americans" would have heckled servicemen and women singing this song. Or a Seal team? Probably not. Since they are rightfully cowards, shouting at children and telling them to "burn in hell." Is that how they speak to their own children when they disagree with them? Nothing but a bunch of bullies and I guarantee their own children are the problem kids at that same school.
So hecklers show up at a Senatorial Candidates Political event, and people are outraged… It makes one wonder if the "hecklers" were not arraigned to make it news worthy? No, A politician would never do that.
I agree with the protesters in that kids shouldn't be used as pawns in a political war just because they don't know what's actually going on, however beyond that I don't think their presence was necessary and they should have just left it alone. That and the media coverage there to egg it on seemed to make things much worse for the kids. Poor things.
Also of note, the children were not being heckled, it was the adults there who were making them do it that were receiving the criticism.
Shame on the parents, Bob Turner and the protesters alike. This reminds me of a custody battle where the child chooses which parent they want to stay with based on which parent has told the kids more bad things about the other parent. Kids shouldn't ever be used like that.
So in YOUR world, the kids PARENTS have no say….. nice!!
I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm saying that kids should not be used as tools, pawns, or any kind of leverage just because they're not fully aware of what's going on around them.
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
MARSHALL MILLER, STOP SPAMMING THE SITE WITH HALF A DOZEN OF THE SAME DAMNED POST!
Not SPAMMING, repeat enough maybe you and others will get the point. God Bless the USA. Thank God for folks who will get out and work, pay taxes, support their families and teach them values and ethics that made America STRONG through the years. The sludge and slime that infiltrates the airwaves, literature,the in your face bahaviour, affects our children in negative ways and I guess you're okay with that. Raise our children to be Patriotic – Love God AND USA – you may want them to fight for this country's freedom some day!
All you liberals out there – next time you hear about how conservatives are patriotic, and liberals are the most intolerant, bigoted, anti-American group of scumbag bullies ever to disgrace this land…..think of this video.
OH MY DOG; I JUST realized what this was? I just actually watched the video, and it's CLEAR that what this was was an ORCHESTRATED EVENT USING INNOCENT CHILDREN TO PRESS THE AGENDA OF RIGHTWING ADULTS!
Is there NO LEVEL LOW ENOUGH to which Conservatives will wallow? Is NOTHING "sacred"? Are INNOCENT CHILDREN just pawns and pieces to be used and EXPLOITED NOW? (shakes head, vomits on Republican election poster).
Now that I see this for what it is, I would have gone there to protest MYSELF if I knew that unethical abuse of children was being orchestrated for the benefit of the media. In fact, I would go as far to say that, with the "Maestro" Todd Stearns" here seeing all the hysterical commentary and fake-emotion beings exuded by all of you puppets here, that it was he, or FOX "News" which shamelessly put this travesty together?
ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE EXPLOITATION OF CHILDREN IN THE MATTER IS MORE "ANTI-AMERICAN" THAN ANYONE THEY WOULD ACCUSE OF FOR RIGHTEOUSLY PROTESTING SUCH BLATANT EXPLOITATION OF CHILDREN.
(Excuse my hysteria) and the band plays on; ONE two three, ONE two three….
Those Stupid Republicans! They don't believe in KILLING BABIES, I believe it's called an Abortion, now why would those stupid Republicans be against that..And they tell me they're even against that SAME SEX MARRIAGE thing, you know, where… a man and a man and a women and a women get married. Now what kind of MAN or WOMEN would be against that…especially when Mr. Obama approves it! I heard it's because they believe in GOD and HIS Word, something they call the BIBLE..Those Republicans, I tell you what..and they don't even think it's right for Illegal Immigrants to come across the US borders Illegally because they say it's against the LAW…How Stupid…They even think the US should protect the American Citizens and their FREEDOM no matter what! WOW Stupid again.. OH YES…those stupid Republicans, they didn't even want to go after Bin Laden…that is why they let Mr. Obama do it..That was sorry of them..Poor Mr. Obama, he had to do it all by his self…and the Republicans, they're so stupid they didn't want Obamacare just because most of the American people was against it… but Mr. Obama, bless his heart he pushed it right on through.. All I have to say is…Those stupid Republicans, they don't know wrong when it's starring them in the face.
let me put it mildly, so every libtard understands:………………………………………………………..YOU brainless scum sucking pigs! You bags of manure on two legs!
Just ef off of those innocent children! You prostituting yourself for FuBar Ack and DemocRATS party!
You are a total F.U.B.A.R. = > Fu*ked Up Beyond Any Imagination…..
have a lousy day and a s*itty life.
Takie słowa niemiłe!
Little bit of anger issues there, Rich?
Little bit of anger issues there, Rich?
Little bit of anger issues there, Rich?
Prowszę nie przestań, Rich.
Prowszę nie przestań, Rich.
Prowszę nie przestać, Rich.
"F*ed Up Beyond Any Imagination" would be F.U.B.A.I. not F.U.B.A.R. :-/
These people shouting at these kids, need to get the hell out of this country!
Watching the video for a second time, I cant help but laugh hysterically and be entertained by the two angry black broads, the dumbass black boy and his faithful tatted white boy sidekick. Its funny that these America hating indoctrinators think they speak for the kids. I think I'll watch again just for sh*ts and giggles.
These protesters have to be the most naive uneducated idiots that I have every seen. I think they skipped school entirely as you couldn't understand their mumbo gumbo. It surely did not make any sense or consisted of any logic or facts, but simple hatred, due to their own lifes being so miserable most likely. I know most of those little kids are much smarter then those low life losers. GOD BLESS the USA!
There is nothing more beautiful than Liberty. People need to taught to understand how precious Liberty is in the world. You do that by teaching them young. I don't even know if the protesters were speaking English or not.
I am speechless. Who looks bad in this video. All who. is there is any doubt, will vote for the incumbent this fall.
I am speechless. Who looks bad in this video. All who. is there is any doubt, will vote for the incumbent this fall.
This is poorly written. It makes you think that the Republicans who organized the protest were heckling the children.
People are coming here illegally and getting access to our country and then they hate on it? especially to our children? Who the hell do you think you are? We don't treat our children like that. If your country is so great then why did you leave it and come here. Our country, our rules. If you can't handle it you know where you can go. Sick of this crap. We Americans need to start pushing back. We have been forced to recognize your religions and respect you culture and beliefs…. so you need to respect our culture and beliefs. In fact I think you should have to convert to our cultures if you are going to be here. We would have to if we moved to your country. GOD BLESS THE USA AND ALL THOSE BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN WHO PROUDLY SANG IT!
If they do NOT love this country, then would they kindly, quietly, PLEASE LEAVE!
I never thought I would live to see the day that a group of children would be heckled at, for singing a song about God blessing the USA.
These same protestors would probably stand up & cheer, had the children sang a song about homosexual marriage or some other vial garbage.
So liberals think their ideology makes it okay to abuse and molest children? Pathetic, but so very like liberals who support freedom only when it applies to themselves. Cultural fascists at their best/worst.
And a note: not everyone in the district supports the racist agenda of the PS90 principal ("white teachers are the ruination of African-American students"), but they know that openly opposing a friend of the Mayor and a liberal black is tantamount to putting a bullet in your career.
Really great herd of liberals up there. They just hate this country. Interrupting the song and yelling at the kids that they are going to go to hell then telling them not to interrupt the adults when they are talking. Can't even follow their own rules just giving kids perfect examples of what a hypocritical ass actually is. I mean how does this guy expect kids not to know what they are singing about but then not explain what going to hell means. Wish one of the Father's would have physical explained to him why you are not going to talk to my kid that way. Not enough time for the Mr. Fresh Beastie Boy/Man. Go save your own kids G. Yeah, go dip away and roll up to your crib moron. Nice people you represent Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand.
I thought new York was a city full of tough men? Funny that a bunch of tough men didn't knock one of these punks teeth out for being a commie piece of shit. Shame on you
I thought new York was a city full of tough men? Funny that a bunch of tough men didn't knock one of these punks teeth out for being a commie piece of shit. Shame on you
I thought new York was a city full of tough men? Funny that a bunch of tough men didn't knock one of these punks teeth out for being a commie piece of shit. Shame on you
Even 20 years ago one could never have imagined that a song celebrating God and country would have morphed into something "controversial." Only in New York and other bastions of liberal think-so would children be accosted for deciding with their parents to sing in a public park. That Mr. Turner was present is irrelevant. The protest was peaceful and, frankly, none of the business of the hecklers. Parents have a right to pass their value system to their children. Unfortunately, some of them learned of the true ugliness of the opposition who would silence any form of free speech that does not jive with their views, even to the point of terrifying little children.