By Todd Starnes
The British government believes that Christians do not have the right to wear a crucifix at work because the wearing the cross is not a “requirement of the faith.”
That’s the position the government is taking in a case pitting British Airways against two women who claimed they were punished for refusing to take off their religious symbols.
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Nadia Eweida and Shirley Chaplin claim they were discriminated against after British Airways banned them from wearing a cross and a crucifix.
The European Court of Human Right will determine if the right to wear a cross is protected under the European Convention on Human Rights.
The Sunday Telegraph reported that the government will argue that employees can not only ban the wearing of the cross, but they can also fire workers who insist on doing so.
That position has sparked outrage across Great Britain. Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, accused the government of “dictating” to Christians and said it was an example of Christianity becoming sidelined.
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“The irony is that when governments and courts dictate to Christians that the cross is a matter of insignificance, it becomes an even more important symbol and express of our faith,” Lord Carey told The Daily Telegraph.
Andrea Williams, the director of the Christian Legal Centre, said it was simply one more example of the British government and courts cracking down on Christians.
“In recent months the courts have refused to recognize the wearing of a cross, belief in marriage between a man and a woman and Sundays as a day of worship as ‘core’ expressions of the Christian faith,” she told The Daily Telegraph. “What next? Will our courts overrule the Ten Commandments?”
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FOX News Talk
How long until this happens in America?
It has already begun…
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/air-force-removes-god-from-logo.html
Dan, I'll give it 15-30 years.
Tom Black
I'll give it 3 if obama is re-elected!
Darlene Stone Wrong. That was from some random Air Force communications logo. The Air Force doesn't have god in it's service logo. Who cares? Did anyone know what that logo was before?
There are certain jobs where you can't wear certain types of medallions, etc, because of the nature of the job. Also there is no requirement by the Christian faith to wear the crucifix as far as I know. Some religions have actual mandates about certain apparel or facial hair etc. Overblown story yet again.
Darlene is right – religious expression has been under attack for years, and this is just another outrageous example. It is imperative that as a society we not allow this to continue!
Michele Boucher-Hines Oh religious expression is not under attack. Give me a break.
Michele Boucher-Hines Oh religious expression is not under attack. Give me a break.
Kelly Calder – religious expression has ALWAYS been under attach. There is barely a week that goes by when there isn't a new report of someone being killed for their religious beliefs and/or affiliations. Educate yourself!
Michele Boucher-Hines I'm talking about in America. Who in America is being killed for their religious beliefs solely? In the Middle East – yep. Other areas of the world? Yep. We were talking about America I thought. "Educate yourself."
Hey Dan it already is happening in America. Its been happening for about the last 30 or 40 years. They're taking down crosses and changing flags. Removing the word God from the pledge of allegiance in schools or not saying they pledge at all anymore. Making the right to kill unborn children legal. Taking Christmas pageants out of schools, Not allowing mangers in front of buildings. They're taking down the ten commandments, taking prayer out of school but allowing those of muslim faith to have prayer rugs. Christians are being attacked more and more and our government thanks to the muslim in chief who doesn't even believe in Jesus or God so sayeth the good Rev Wright since he sat in his church for 20 years, is doing everything thing they can to oppress christians. It's not just Jerusalem under attack. Everything this country was founded upon is being ripped apart and more so now that you have someone in the White House who doesn't believe in this country. He won't put his hand over his heart during the pledge. He doesn't follow the constitution. He usurps the power of Congress and his own director of the CIA in front of congress said that they will go to the UN instead of congress if they decide to do anything about syria. Wake up people. Teach your children about our history and faith because this country is heading straight to Hell.
Hey Dan it already is happening in America. Its been happening for about the last 30 or 40 years. They're taking down crosses and changing flags. Removing the word God from the pledge of allegiance in schools or not saying they pledge at all anymore. Making the right to kill unborn children legal. Taking Christmas pageants out of schools, Not allowing mangers in front of buildings. They're taking down the ten commandments, taking prayer out of school but allowing those of muslim faith to have prayer rugs. Christians are being attacked more and more and our government thanks to the muslim in chief who doesn't even believe in Jesus or God so sayeth the good Rev Wright since he sat in his church for 20 years, is doing everything thing they can to oppress christians. It's not just Jerusalem under attack. Everything this country was founded upon is being ripped apart and more so now that you have someone in the White House who doesn't believe in this country. He won't put his hand over his heart during the pledge. He doesn't follow the constitution. He usurps the power of Congress and his own director of the CIA in front of congress said that they will go to the UN instead of congress if they decide to do anything about syria. Wake up people. Teach your children about our history and faith because this country is heading straight to Hell.
Jon Morrison It has been happening in the US for years now, US citizens loosing their religious rights in the false name of equality. Why else make it illegal to pray in school & manitory to teach our youngest through the school system the facts & practices of homosexuality. Oh that the only people presently protected are the Muslims & illegals invaders.
Zachery Stephens 1. God was never originally IN the Pledge of Allegiance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance It wasn't added until 1954. 2. Christmas pageants probably shouldn't be in public schools. Do that after school or something. Prayer should NOT be in a public school either.
You want to see Christians being attacked? Read the news. You guys have it way better. You can still go to church, believe what you want, etc, right.
Kelly Calder And don't get started on the way the Fox Forums foamed at the mouth over the Rhode Island governor living up to his state's history of being non-denominational and inclusive with a "holiday tree" (which allowed people who celebrate holidays other than Christmas to participate) … OMG you'd think Jesus had a fir tree in the nativity it got so hostile in here! I agree with you, Kelly. It is not a requirement of the faith (quite the opposite, it's a bit of an idol … and it was ripped off from Hecate worshippers … Christians used an ichthus to mark their dwellings, but for some reason wearing a symbol of capital punishment caught on more than a fish).
Kelly Calder And don't get started on the way the Fox Forums foamed at the mouth over the Rhode Island governor living up to his state's history of being non-denominational and inclusive with a "holiday tree" (which allowed people who celebrate holidays other than Christmas to participate) … OMG you'd think Jesus had a fir tree in the nativity it got so hostile in here! I agree with you, Kelly. It is not a requirement of the faith (quite the opposite, it's a bit of an idol … and it was ripped off from Hecate worshippers … Christians used an ichthus to mark their dwellings, but for some reason wearing a symbol of capital punishment caught on more than a fish).
It is happening in The U.S.A. Where have you been? Obama will be re-elected, it's in your Bible. Revelation 13: 15-18 And everyone thought his beautiful smile was so comforting.
Lori Bische LOL. Oh I know. I pointed out to people where Christmas came from and all the traditions that go with it.
Jean Carlson Obama is not the Anti-Christ lol. Crazy.
Zachery Stephens I don't know where you grew up, but Christian kids bullied the shit out of the very few muslims that went to my high school, and they did nothing to deserve it. I constantly saw pamphlets for after school christian prayer circles getting shoved in my face when I wanted no part in it.
Kelly Calder I wonder what god thinks of her throwing around that term so lightly? haha, like WTF ARE YOU KIDDING ME MORTAL??
Matthew Malkowski I don't really care what "god" thinks.
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Kelly Calder Go put your heaqd under the sand now…. it IS apparent all this news is JUST too much for you.
The day this happens in America we shoot muslims dead in the streets.
Kelly Calder And it may come as a shock to you… HE LOVES YOU but allows you to chose whether you believe or not. There IS a price for your wrong ,wrong choice. Now do not claim you were NOT told this when on this earth. Prayers…yes you stand in need.
Lori Bische Kelly and you know nothing of faith and love in God. I pity you gals. You ahead and excercise your free will. You still stand in need of prayers.
Jean Carlson So Mitt Romney is the anti-christ?
Ron Baldus so much for freedom of religion
Already happening in Britain. Some British cities have sections controlled by Sharia Law (it is posted) and law enforcement officials are afraid to go. State courts are already deciding here that Sharia law can be used as the basis of civil law. Get your burqa ready and hide the little boys…..Islamic religion is coming to America.
Kelly Calder you truely are clueless—by shariah law a women MUST wear their rag over their face of die by stoneing, men must not shave, this is just a couple of their backasswards laws,women can't drive, in fact they can't even speak outside the home, they are there for breeding and serving the men, if the father of the home dies then the eldest male child is in charge and he has the right to murder their own mother if they wish for NO reason—check your facts because you are truely clueless!
Hi Dan ..I think it's already happened! I am wearing my cross, my Magen David and any combination thereof…they are picking stupid battles, but hopefully it will wake us all up!
In the U.S., most of us who wear them would ignore the rule.
I'm sick – this world is getting crazier and crazier. This seems to be a worldwide thing – putting down Christians – but we put up with Muslims even giving them rooms at work or schools to worship. I wear crosses all the time, I don't attend a church but I like the looks of them – they are jewelry. Who the h e l l has the right to tell a person what they can and can't wear for ornamentation.
An employer can tell someone what to wear or not wear. It's just like most employers have a dress code. You can't just show up to work in your outfit you wore out to the club over the weekend right? (Unless your job is a prostitute or something). You can't just wear whatever you want to work right? So yeah they can tell someone not to wear necklaces if they wanted to. Did they have them hanging out or were they under their shirt? I would just say put it under your shirt. Does everyone HAVE to broadcast their religion? I don't broadcast my beliefs for the world daily. Geez.
It is a religious war–the war against Christ and his people. . .
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann Wtf are you talking about?
Kelly Calder It is a war against Christianity–ever heard of the antichrist? Go to Bayside Prophecies website. If you don't believe the Holy Mother after seeing this, you are truly lost. . .
Kelly Calder – I admire your command of the English language. "WTF" – impressive. MMW is talking about the prophecy in the book of Revelation. She is correct.
Chris Vignola I will talk how I want to and you can't do much about it. I don't care what Revelations says – no one knows that is true. It's just something some MEN wrote down. She is not "correct" in any way.
Chris Vignola I will talk how I want to and you can't do much about it. I don't care what Revelations says – no one knows that is true. It's just something some MEN wrote down. She is not "correct" in any way.
The world has gone NUTS –
Kelly Calder – agreed with regard to how you express yourself. It reveals your character and you can live with the results. Similarly, I can admire your chosen style of communication and you can't do much about that, either
I believe you when you say you don't care what Revelation says. And you will live with the results of that, too. That you dismiss it so easily as merely something men wrote down reveals you have not done your homework.
Kelly Calder Then Muslims shoud not be able to were head scarfs. As you said… "Does everyone HAVE to broadcast their releigion?" They are bradcasting being Muslim!
Kelly Calder – and by the way, the issue is not about an employer setting a dress code. The issue is about a government restricting individual liberty.
Chris Vignola How's that?
Chris Vignola How's that?
Linda Fedorchak It's not their religion the head scarves. It's their CULTURE. Two different things.
Linda Fedorchak It's not their religion the head scarves. It's their CULTURE. Two different things.
Kelly Calder , you just made her point.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann Amen, sister! The war is on. I celebrate the fact, because it heralds that Jesus's return is imminent.
Peter Scranton Who's point? I'm so confused. Too many conversations going on right now.
Kelly Calder Muslims wear their Turbins all around us in the country. Try wearing a cross in Iran. See the hypocrisy yet? You keep defending the religion that has no tolerance for other religions. I agree in this: Most Christians are not good at apologetics, mainly because God is not logical. He is above us, therefore; a logical description is insulting to scientists and those who are not of the faith.
It would behoove you to try reading something on a scholarly level and gain insight into the historicity of Jesus and the preservation of the ancient literatures.
It would be nice to see my fellow Christians do the same and learn how to give a proper apologetic.
Prophecies of the past revealed that in time prophecies of the future are an absolute certainty, regardless of the truth you decide to believe in the fact remains there can only be one absolute truth.
The day is coming that being a Christian is a crime.
America is no longer free and I pitty all who wanted us to surrender our Religious rights because all our freedom then, will be lost.
Jesus is slowly revealing Himself to the world right now through prophecy…
JESUS, HOW GLORIOUS YOU ARE TO BE ABOVE US ALL, NOT TO LET MAN DISCOVER YOU THROUGH SCIENCE. YOU HOLD ON TO YOUR PROMISES THROUGH THE AGES AND REVEAL YOURSELF TO US IN YOUR TIME AND IN YOUR WAY TO LEAVE EVERYONE IN AWE OF YOUR MAJESTY, EVEN THOSE AGAINST YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DENY YOU ANY MORE!
Kelly Calder I see you ran into an 'end-times' argument. Here's the Wikipedia reference on Revelation, which I've verified in several other books. Revelation was initially considered heretical (due to it containing teachings similar to Montanism, a cult), and was not added as part of the NT canon (grudgingly – some thought it was too difficult to understand and therefore could be easily abused … Jim Jones, David Koresh, Harold Camping and Hal Lindsey anybody?) until the 5th Century. In American history, founding father Thomas Jefferson thought it was "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams," and promptly cut it from his bible. And let's not forget, "The Bible Answer Man", Hank Hanegraaff, has said he thinks the events of Revelation already happened, and that it was just a coded letter about government events. All of which are valid reasons why some critical thinkers reject it as being 'inspired' in any way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Canonical_history
Be well, ALL OF YOU, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Kelly Calder Obvisouly you do not have a clue and probably are too dim to even understand what is REALly going on.
Good luck surviving, YOU will need a lot of LUCK!
Kelly Calder WRONG!! They claim in NUMEROUS lawsuits IT, the headscarf, IS PART OF THEIR RELIGION.
Which is Kelly??? Can not have it both ways…. in a lawsuit it's their religion…no discrimination and here YOU say it is not.
Hey you are muslim??? If so, YOU are not very knowledgable on the political system calling its self a religion..islam. Oh, I just know you like shaira law and muslim ordered cliterectomies doncha?
Kelly Calder You like "honor killings" too??? Muslims are CRAZY for those. CRAZY in love with killing their kids for trying to marry who they LOVE NOT THE OLD MAN THAT THEIR DADDY SOLD THEM TO!!
Or to kill the gals who want to in college or work in the public eye…. wear western clothes. Or be a HOMOSEXUAL…WOW thay can get you STONED or HUNG if you have MUSLIM family!
ANd Kelly the koran says to throw Homosexuals off mountains or tall buildings and IF they do not die, then STONE them.
ISLAM the religion of LOVE 'EM TO DEATH!
Nancy G Warren Wow someone else who attributed something that I NEVER said to my name. Can you read?
Yeah and people misinterpret how homosexuals are to be treated from the Bible. AND?? How many murders and atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity???? Your religion isn't perfect.
I don't "love' ANY religion. YOu crazy old koot.
Kelly Calder, I agree with you that employers have the right to set a dress code and enforce it as such. However, you cannot deny that there is a huge bias in the treatment of different faiths. Also, you are an idiot. You are one of those ridiculous people that argue for the sake of arguing. I bet you were one of those a-holes at the occupy protests with a brand new Apple Computer and brand name clothes…
Kelly Calder You don't get out much, do you. She is talking about the war on Christianity. Pay attention please, or get off the page.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann …you are right, but those who don't study scripture CAN'T understand…remember they have to be spiritual before they can understand spiritual things. Also some will never want to hear our truth, it is like casting our pearls….you know….but you are so right…we are living in the time of the signs!
Kelly Calder give it up. You are a total loser. I can only imagine what you do in the army but I guarantee that you are not trigger puller. What lousy support job did you do? If you went to Afganistan or Iraq I know you never left the base to work with the Muslims. You are just support trash. Your arguments are based on your disbelief of religions. I do not believe in them either but hey, do not take away the poor peoples opium. I have a buddy that was just on Fox news. Romy Camargo was a warrant officer in 7th SFG while in Afghanistan he took a bullet in the neck that left him a qudriplegic. Tim Tebow had the decency to visit him. They both prayed together. But you would not know what that is about becuase your are just support trash….
Mark Belcourt Really? How do you expect to have a discussion with someone when you call them an "idiot?" You started off okay and then that…wow. No I was not ever at an Occupy protest. I hate those Occupy people. Most of them had no CLUE what they were protesting. I don't have an Apple. My laptop is like a year old. I don't wear "brand name" clothes. I know how to save money and not blow it so that's why I have an actual savings so if there's an emergency I'm not stuck like a lot of people. But gee thanks for criticizing me when you have NO CLUE who I am. I think you're the "asshole."
Alexis Jimenez Oh wow another winner in the discussion. "Loser?" Did you come up with that by yourself? No I'm not a "trigger puller" if you mean infantry because females can't have that job. Yeah I'm in support – oh shit so are a lot of other people!!! I went to Iraq twice and I did work with locals. "Support trash." Are you in the military? What do YOU do that you can judge? I've heard this support vs infantry debate bullshit for years now.
What does me being a support MOS have to do with RELIGION?!?!?! Omg you know what if I was shot or injured while I was over there (because I did go out on patrols sometimes even though I'm "support") I wouldn't pray with anyone. I don't care that Tim Tebow visited him. Good for him for doing that as a celebrity. Other celebrities visit soldiers too. Maybe not a lot but they do.
What does ANY of that have to do with anything. If you are infantry you're probably some piece of shit that they all rag on who doesn't do shit and worked in the TOC because he's a douche. See I can call names too against someone I don't know. Get a life.
Lee Anthony I'm never going to Iran so I don't care. That's not even what this article is about. Why do people always take things to the extreme? Man…
Kelly Calder you don't broadcast your beliefs to the world daily? what are you doing here?
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann its amazing how many people can't understand what you said, even members of our military do not realise we ARE in the middle of a war of idealolgy! they also have no clue that obama has been suppling money to buy weapons to our emenies!!!
Dn Zach Varghese Commenting on an article with opinions. It's not "daily" either. But nice try.
Jon Morrison When has our government NOT given weapons to our "enemies?" I know this. Our "ally" today could be our enemy tomorrow. I mean we gave weapons to Saddam, taught bin Laden and his group how to fight and gave them weapons against the Soviets. So yeah I know the American government is not perfect because *gasp* it's full of people. People aren't perfect.
What "war of ideology" are we in the middle of? I don't understand what Melissa says because it's slightly incoherent.
I believe people should be free…..to show their ignorance by wearing a cross, burka, or yarmulke.
I agree people should be free even to make a comment as stupid as yours!!!
Ouch! that hurt..Throwing stones..already..
Muslims claim they are discriminated against? At one time in very recent history the UK had sent forth more Christian missionaries than the rest of the world added together. It has now sunk to this. America beware! We are only inches behind this with a Presient and Administration who believe they can pick who are the pastors of a church (thanx to the Supreme Courts 9-0 decison, yes 9-0, it was that obvious, thus the administration has to rethink how they will do it) and can dictate to the Catholic church theologial issues. Not far behind.
agreed. Christians are discriminated against far more than any other religion. It is happening all around us. Yet the mainstream media rarely reports on it. It's a sad world we are living in. They hypocrisy is limitless. They are always preaching peoples rights, well what about the Christians' rights?
Wasn't religious freedom why we came to this country? And doesn't the Constitution guarantee this?
…now that I've read the rest of the news I'm sure Holder will sue the Christian faith for existing around Muslims.
Amy Bishop Whiddon Discriminated against MORE than any other religion in America? Tell me when someone was pulled out of line at an airport and frisked in front of everyone for wearing a cross? No? Tell me the last time a Catholic ran for office and was accused of secretly wanting to put Papal law over the Constitution. No? Tell me the last time someone robbed a gas station and called the person an anti-Christian slur. When was the last time a preacher of another faith called your "a lie from the pit of hell" to an audience of millions. Man, you christians have it way too good compared to us minorities.
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Larry Preston No, Holder will just send them al Christians l to concentration, oops, I mean reeducation camps so they can learn to love Mohammed and the Islamic faith.
for Larry Preston…this is in Britain…NOT America….read the article for simply applying this to a totally different situation.
Larry Preston ..so true my friend..Sad thing is they are even admitting now that the constitution no longer guides the their actions…they are more led by the UN and /or NATO…But we are living in the times of the signs. Keep looking up!
Roger – the liberals really don't care as long as they can stay in power. To heck with religious freedom and decisions based upon the truth.
James When was the last time a Christian flew a plane into a building in Saudi Arabia or Syria or Nigeria? I don't believe in discrimination against anyone unless there is reason to give a second thought. Try to build a Christian Church in Saudi Arabia or Turkey. Try being a woman under Sharia law in Afghanistan or Iran. Ever listen to a Wahabi Imam? In San Antonio a radical judge wanted to send a school principal to jail because some Christian kids in his school wanted to have a voluntary moment of silence. There is an obvious clash of modernism and the 7th century as well as a bit of government gone wild. I hate to see any of this, but when Nigerian Christians can't even go to Church in safety…Maybe just be a Coptic Christian in Egypt or Assyrian Christian in Iraq or try to… Be a Jew in Israel and watch the rockets fly…you get my point? There are well over 2 billion Christians and maybe 1.5 billion Muslims and I think most folks would admit the Muslims START more trouble than any other group. The problem is there are a lot of well intentioned Muslims, but they get lost in the shuffle. I have never seen a Muslim get checked at an Airport but I have seen my 5' 1" 115 lb wife and an 80+ year old lady I know get pulled over. I'm a retired Army Colonel and I have been pulled over. Aren't I the guy who defended us? Your point is well taken and I admit there isn't an answer until the end of Wahabism and the Taliban and Al Quaeda and… This didn't use to be a problem. I'm open to suggestions, I really am.
"In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world." Jesus the Christ.
The slippery slope is getting slippery-er.
Dont tell that to a Vicar ……
Fine, than burkahs are illegal too. No head wraps, nothing. And when I put up a picture of Moohammed having sex with a goat, you can't get mad, either.
Doug Franzen now you know he didnt like goats only 9 year old little girls
True, Shirley. I have 2 little girls at home – I didn't want to go down that road.
Shirley Sue Bryson-carden No he liked boys, goats and sheep…in fact that weirdo iman in Iran says it ok to have sex with a newborn as well as the above listed animals…. HOWEVER, after you "USE" the animals one cannot kill them for food. Now that IS a relief isn't it. LOL LOL.
but its ok for muslims to wear burkas over their faces or diapers on their heads! talk about being biased!
Muslims don't wear "diapers" on their head. Ignorance much. Although the burqa is not necessarily a requirement dressing moderately among men and women is in Islam.
Kelly Calder so are crosses for Christians—you are impeeding on our religion.
the problem I have for muslims are they do NOT respect others people's rights, so I can not respect theirs, they have proved time and time again they hate christians and hate America, probably because they still live in the stone age
Jon Morrison Crosses are NOT for Christians. The cross existed as a symbol WELL before Christianity. Before Christ it wasn't associated with him. Just like other symbols in the world. And yes most Muslims do respect other people's rights. EXTREMISTS don't respect other people. There are Christian extremists. They just don't blow stuff up (except abortion clinics) but they verbally attack people constantly.
Some Americans act like they still live in the Stone Age. Wow you're pretty ignorant.
You mean the Americans who still value the founding father's beliefs?
Todd Lindstrom What are you talking about? The Founders were not all Christian. Most of them were just spiritual. George Washington for example never proclaimed a religion. He would go to church, he believed in a creator but he never would answer the question on his religion.
This story is about Britain not America so Idk what the deal is.
The cross is a Christian symbol, and no government should be allowed to legislate whether it is worn or not.
Kelly Calder Wow your in the Army? No wonder our military hasn't dethroned Obama yet!
Kelly Calder So since you know so much about history whey don't you tell us where the cross was a symbol before Christ?
Pete Lanteri Wtf does that mean? Tool.
Kelly Calder Look up Bayside Prophecies, Kelly. . .
Kelly Calder You'd probably obey orders to disarm the American People too! Go ahead and try it! See what happens when the sleeping giant is awoken again!!
Kelly Calder Our country was founded on christian beliefs, that is a fact no matter how you twist it and the majority of the American population are Christian and it is only a matter of time before the pot boils over and we take back our country from the treasonous politicians.
Robert Schlie Here's real quick what I've found:
Pre-Christian crosses:
Some have sought to attach to the widespread use of this sign, in particular in its swastika form, a real ethnographic importance. It may have represented the apparatus used in kindling fire, and thus as the symbol of sacred fire or as a symbol of the sun, denoting its daily rotation. It has also been interpreted as the mystic representation of lightning or of the god of the tempest, and even the emblem of the Aryan pantheon and the primitive Aryan civilization
Another symbol that has been connected with the cross is the ansated cross (ankh or crux ansata) of the ancient Egyptians, which often appears as a symbolic sign in the hands of the goddess Sekhet, and appears as a hieroglyphic sign of life or of the living. In later times the Egyptian Christians (Copts), attracted by its form, and perhaps by its symbolism, adopted it as the emblem of the cross.[2] In his book, The Worship of the Dead (London, 1904), p. 226, Colonel J. Garnier wrote: "The cross in the form of the 'Crux Ansata'… was carried in the hands of the Egyptian priests and Pontiff kings as the symbol of their authority as priests of the Sun god and was called 'the Sign of Life'."
Early Christian Cross:
During the first two centuries of Christianity, the cross may have been rare in Christian iconography, as it depicts a purposely painful and gruesome method of public execution and Christians were reluctant to use it. The Ichthys, or fish symbol, was used by early Christians. The Chi-Rho monogram, which was adopted by Constantine I in the 4th century as his banner (see labarum), was another Early Christian symbol of wide use.
http://www.celtarts.com/celtic.htm
The Cross did not become a common symbol of Christianity until the 4th century. Images of the cross were in fact quite rare before the Golden Legend became popular and the "discovery" of the "True Cross" promoted fragments of the "True Cross" as powerful relics.
The Cross as a Symbol:
Ancient Egypt: the ankh
Basque cross
Christian cross
Coptic ankh
Original Coptic Cross
Coptic Cross
The Red Cross
The swastika is a cross shape – it was stolen by the Nazis and used for their agenda but had benign meanings before that.
There are crosses used in heraldry that have no meanings associated with them.
Pete Lanteri What are you talking about? No one has ever nor will they ever tell me to "disarm the American people." I swore to follow LAWFUL orders. I have never been given an unlawful order but if I were, I would not obey it. You're ridiculous.
Kelly Calder if you take the shape you can attach it to a lot of things in history. Hell you can take a straight line and say it is associated with everything. All those things mean nothing compared to the symbol it holds for us Christians. It is a symbol of Christ dying for our sins and actually giving us an escape out of the damned world. You can generalize any shape but to put a real meaning behind it is another thing all together. The end is near and nothing can stop it.
Robert Schlie No no it was not founded on "Christian beliefs" or that would be IN the Constitution. Religion isn't in there. We don't follow one god or one religion in this country.
Robert Schlie You asked for what it has meant in history – that's what it has meant. It wasn't ALWAYS associated with Christ. That's my point. So don't avoid what I posted and gave you what you asked for. It's not solely a Christian symbol. C'mon…and "the end is near" really? What end?
And just because YOU think it has real meaning people who aren't Christian don't see any meaning in a cross.
Kelly Calder talking to you is like talking to a wall. You just don't get it or see what is right in front of you. I can't help you there but I can tell you that people like you will be blind until the very end, they will explain away everything all of the signs and only when all is said and done and they are brought before God will they finally hit the ground and beg for mercy but at that point it will be to late. Sometimes things are not just random and have meaning the trick is to see those things and know whats random and whats not. Look at everything around you and then see if you still believe that it was just all random and has no meaning. Good luck and I'll pray that one day you can see whats right in front of you.
Robert Schlie I have the same feelings about you Robert!! You just don't get what I'm telling you. The cross is not SOLELY a Christian symbol. It's ONE association to the symbol. I mean are you retarded or something?
So you're trying to tell me in your crazy talk that god is going to just punish a bunch of people and the end is near? Um yeah okay. Someday I'll die and if there's a deity or higher power, I'm ready to meet it and be like "Wtf dude?" I already know "what in front of me." You can take your crazy talk elsewhere.
Kelly Calder: But Christ didn't die on a circle, nor on a line. He died on a cross.
While we're at it, you were not responsive about why it's forbidden to wear a cross, but not a burka or hijab.
Kelly Calder Well 25% of Marines WOULD disarm the American public. A Navy Commander did the study. Sad to say because I was Marine Infantry! Do not be surprised is you are asked those questions by your superiors! You are not in the US Army anymore. You are in the UN Army! Ever see that new navy recruiting slogan "A global force for good"? What do you think that means! Anyway, stay safe wherever you are.
Kelly Calder Well 25% of Marines WOULD disarm the American public. A Navy Commander did the study. Sad to say because I was Marine Infantry! Do not be surprised is you are asked those questions by your superiors! You are not in the US Army anymore. You are in the UN Army! Ever see that new navy recruiting slogan "A global force for good"? What do you think that means! Anyway, stay safe wherever you are.
Kelly Calder: "And just because YOU think it has real meaning people who aren't Christian don't see any meaning in a cross. "
Well, if it doesn't hold any meaning for you, why do you care if someone wears a cross? How were these ladies unable to do their jobs due to a cross hanging around their necks? It seems that because you are not a religious person (and I'm not either, really) you have no interest in the religious freedom of your countrymen. That's sad.
Kelly Calder – Actually YOU are the Ignorant one.
Samantha Wichman Conrad Omg…*sigh* he asked me what the other meaning of a cross were so I told him. Comprehension people. It's not that hard. It's in Britain so I don't care what they do. Those aren't my countrymen.
Kelly Calder I as a Christian are OFFENDED! BY YOU! Why don't you go live in a Muslim Country and leave the rest of the world alone.
Nancy Hardy Burka and hijabs are part of their culture – and dressing modestly is part of their religion. I think it shouldn't be allowed in jobs like the military and neither should they allow Sikhs to not shave but they issue waivers for it.
Jean Carlson Um because I'm an American and proud of it and wouldn't live anywhere else because here no one can make me be a Christian. I don't care if I offended you. You offend me by your mere presence and ignorance.
Kelly Calder I could run down the list of obscure now extinct winter holidays and say that Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus because culture x in year y also celebrated it, but for a different reason. What does that have to do with anything? Similarly, to say the egyptians used to have a cross like symbol is completely irrelevant today. No one cares about the ancient egyptians, or their symbols.
100% of people in the west understand that it's a Christian symbol.
Paul Sabrina Holmes 1. Jesus wasn't even born in December 2. Christians stole the celebration of Saturnalia to convert more people. 3. Trees have long been a symbol of life in beliefs BEFORE Christianity. I could go on and on but I don't have the energy to go through it again.
One association of the cross is Christianity.
Kelly Calder, Sorry Kelly, but that's not true. If non Christians didn't find meaning in the cross, they wouldn't object to it hanging in public places. You can't straddle both sides of the fense.
Kelly Calder, Sorry Kelly, but that's not true. If non Christians didn't find meaning in the cross, they wouldn't object to it hanging in public places. You can't straddle both sides of the fense.
@Kelly Calder: Have another cup of "The Kool Aid" after Oprah is over. They have you right where they want you.
Kelly Calder Muslims, like the ones in Iran who sentenced to death a man who converted to Christianity – are those the Muslims you refer to who respect other religions?
Kelly Calder Don't bother with these bullheaded nuts. This is why christianity (and major religions as a whole) have shrunk every year for 20 years. There isn't even any "real" christians anymore, just people that tell everyone else not to do something, then turn around and do that exact same thing. (Adultery, stealing, attacking other faiths, molesting little boys etc…)
Kelly Calder: You're the very rot that has infected this country.
Kelly Calder just needs to get it over with and join the Taliban…they already have his sympathy.
Wow! You are one ignorant person. Talk about hate speech!
Kelly Calder …you are a complete bafoon!!kelly,the suffering on the cross is what christianity is about..just because germanic peoples and vikings had crosses doesn't take away from its significance to christians…its obvious you are another christ hater..and you will be judged some day accordingly!!..even in the days of the bible,people hated it when they were told they were doing something wrong.im sure you are into this new no holds bared free for all society,but those kind of beliefs are a disgrace to the uniform-never thought i'd see a soldier take englands governments side over god almighty….just another sign of the times i guess
Kelly Calder Take your Muslims and shove it. These stone-age savages are trying to get the uniforms of the US Military changed so they can wear their stupid headwraps. As one who proudly wore the uniform of the Navy, I resent any changes to a perfectly good uniform that has served our country for years. Noone is allowed to wear any religious symbols openly with the uniform, but the muslims want to change all that. If they don't like the uniform as, let them go back where they came from and leave us alone. Christians are under attack yet again.
Kelly Calder Crosses are not for Christians? Maybe you'd like to provide some evidence. Also your moral equivalence between Muslim extremist terrorists and the rare and isolated instance of abortion bombings is absurd. As for verbally attacking people, you haven't watched much MSNBC liberal ranting, have you?
Kelly Calder -and when you talk about extremists,they dont kill there children….it happens all the time!its not a small thing,it happens everyday!!a father or husband can blow your brains out in iraq and its legal..my marine friends have told me horrible accounts of watching honor killings while there commanders tell them to stand down and let it happen.my buddy watched a teenage girl get her head blowed off my her father on the streets of iraq in front of 100 people and it was o.k….so no,i dont think you can compare muslims and christians…the muslim bible commands war and subjegation of all non muslims and women!!..fact!!..just last year in illinios a muslim,with the best wished of there muslim family,shot and killed his daughters for dating american boys!!..your ignorant view of the world is dangerous…and honestly,i dont know why the hell we care about those people when they dont care themselves….when a man can kills his kids in daylight in a so called "free iraq",and nothing happens….well,that war was a definite waste of time…and muslim men dont practice islam!,the practice oppression!!,a culture built on the enslavement of women…theft,murder,homosexuality,all things muslims are not to do are done on a large scale..the only time they get religious is when they want to kill something……
Chris Miller I'm not straddling anything.
Everyone stop arguing with Kelly Calder. You're wasting your time on that idiot. This is the anti-Christian America Obama has in store for you if you allow him to be elected again.
Everyone stop arguing with Kelly Calder. You're wasting your time on that idiot. This is the anti-Christian America Obama has in store for you if you allow him to be elected again.
Bryce Corbin First off I am no idiot. How rude…and am not "anti-Christian." Way to get someone to see your point of view…
William Scull That's not what Islam says though. So you fault everyone who follows a religion and extremist claims? So I should assume all Christians are abortion clinic bombers or part of the WBC and protesting funerals? They say they're Christian. I don't assume that because I'm not dumb. Yeah your Marine friends can't do anything – we're not there to "fix" their culture. The military isn't the Peace Corps sorry.
But Christians at one time had honor killings, stonings, etc. Sorry but Christianity's history is just as sordid.
Joe Schmidt: Hey folks!!! We have ANOTHER sympathizer here. It's Joe!
Jon Morrison I wonder if employees would be allowed to wear a heart on a necklace? We need to know from the Leviathon what we are allowed to wear or see or listen to in order to be good little subjects.
Kelly Calder The Cross reminds me of what OUR Savior (Jesus of Nazareth) went through and how He PAID THE PRICE of satisfying The Fathers Wrath, WITH HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD, ONCE AND FOR ALL, to ALL who will believe. The Cross IS A REQUIREMENT of the Christian Faith, FOR IF YOU TRY TO GET TO THE FATHER WITHOUT GOING BY THE WAY OF THE CROSS, The Father WILL HAVE TO UNLEASH ALL HIS ANGER AND WRATH upon YOU! I suggest EVERYONE start hiding behind The Cross of Calvary, THE WAY TO HEAVEN JESUS MADE FOR US, for THE TIME OF THE FULL WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD IS VERY NIGH!
Kelly Calder I am NOT anti Muslim but its a fact there is a war on Christians in the middle east/Muslim countries. people are slaughtered daily for being Christian in these countries like Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Indonesia, etc. If you could be so kind as to name a Muslim controlled country where its okay for Christians to even practice there religion freely? In many Muslim countries if you are Christian you don't even have equal rights. If you convert from Islam to ANY other religion its a death sentence. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/24/saving-pastor-yousef/ Our troops in the middle east are forbidden to even show any signs of Christian religion while we die to defend them. Tolerance is something I love about the west and the freedom to pray to what ever god you see fit. My Muslim friends from Iran, Iraq and other places around the world came to America for a better life and freedom and you know what they have it! Its a shame Briton has decided against these traditions.
Kelly Calder Kelly, I don't personally wear crosss but respect the right of Christians to do so. The point of all of this is that governements across the globe are increasingly discriminatory against Christians. Jon is correct. They wouldn't dream of telling a Hindu or a Muslim what they could or could not wear. Somehow it's all okay when the discrimination is against Christianity.
Dane Frederick Hoover And there was a war on Muslims by Christians before that. Those two religions have fought for thousands of years and always will.
Dane Frederick Hoover And there was a war on Muslims by Christians before that. Those two religions have fought for thousands of years and always will.
Don Layton Except this is in Britain where this happened. So I don't care what they do there.
Don Layton Except this is in Britain where this happened. So I don't care what they do there.
Robert D Fohr Yeah heard it. Don't buy it.
Robert D Fohr Yeah heard it. Don't buy it.
Kelly Calder OK…it's not a diaper. Kotex maybe !!!
John Wilson Ignorance.
Kelly Calder most of America's Founding Fathers were Christians, including George Washington. That is simply a historical fact.
Paul Abigail Miller Negative. George Washington NEVER stated what affiliation he was. He was more spiritual than anything. There is not one quote where Washington ever states he is a "christian." Spiritual. And most of them were deists not Christians.
Kelly Calder The cross was adopted by Christians but your superior intellect is leaving that out.
Adam Saldaña Holy shit some of you have no reading comprehension. Wow..
Kelly Calder . If Crosses are NOT for Christians than why is this an article and why would they ban it because of christian beliefs
Shawn Elliott I'm just saying Christians like to "own" everything that meant something else at one point. It's not even IN America so I don't see the big deal.
Kelly Calder The reality is that while crosses were not created just as a Christian symbol of faith, it has become one. If wearing it does not interfere with doing your job, anyone should have the right to wear it like any other religious symbol. No government would dare say anything to a Muslim about any of their religious symbols for fear of offending them, but Christians are fair game because they will not like the decision, but would not kill someone like the Muslims are always threatening to do to anyone who offends them. I respect other religions, but am sick and tired of other extremists including governments who will not respect mine;.
Kelly Calder YOU do not even know do you that its says in the BIBLE…" Take up your cross DAILY and follow Jesus".
As an Eastern Orthodox Christian IT is a requirement of my faiththat I do just that. When we are baptised we have a cross placed around our necks on a ribbon or a chain… and YES we are supposed to wear it all our lives.THey are blessed these crosses and we cherish them for what they mean to us…FAITH IN THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST TO SAVE OUR ETERNAL SOULS.
Kelly…you are JUST A PLAIN WRONG THINKING person!
One of these days the GATOR( islam) that you are hoping eats you last is GOING to get you or a relative! I would bet money on it. IT will be brutal and sudden. THey operate like that RIGHT NOW in Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Sudan and Nigeria where not a day goes by that Christians are not kidnaped, murdered , raped or multilated.
So, TAKE a long hike off a short pier…. the water hitting you in the face might WAKE YOU UP!
Adam Saldaña: That is not the issue. If BA in the UK says 'no' to openly wearing religious and other ornaments and it is in the employment contract, so be it. Lufthansa has it in the contract. To feel discriminated as a Christian in a Christian country is just ridiculous. Also, I have never seen Singapore Airlines staff showing off Muslim emblems and ornaments. You may want to note that 'real' religious symbols are allowed in the UK, i.e. turbans for Sikhs
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Rick Praml I'm not even arguing this because you won't listen.
Nancy G Warren Wow is that the Christian in you telling me to "take a long hike off a short pier?" How wonderfully Christian of you!!
What the heck? "Gator" "Islam"? Not the same thing. How do you compare those two? Ho wis Islam going to "eat my last relative?" You're a strange person lady.
Kelly Calder – What? If you see a person wearing a cross most of the time means this person is a Christian. To deny a person the freedom to wear a cross on the job is religious discrimination. I agree with you that not all Muslims are disrepectful of other religions. I disagree with you that there are a significant number of Christian extremists. Yes some Christians are very vocal but so are most other people when it comes to their beliefs. It is normal to voice ones opinion and yes sometimes disrepectfully. It is not normal to kill innocent man, woman, and children in almost every corner of the world as do the Muslims. If all they did was voice their opinions we would not be at war with them.
Kelly Calder, If the cross was picked up as a symbol to represent the death of Christ than it become their symbol doesn't. As to whether it was used before is of little issue.
As for Muslims I'm sure there maybe a few that are respectful to other religion as in all cases. But it’s hard to argue that when they are preaching that there religion is the only one and any other beliefs are punishable by death. Does that show respect or hate?
Dale DeThomas : So taking away the Burqa is fine and taking away the cross is discrimination? I know a lot of kids wearing crosses, crucifixes and other Christian symbols who have never seen a church from the inside. How can you declare a war on a religion? What is your goal?
Kelly Calder That's a slippery slope Kelly. What happens in GB is sometimes a precursor for what happens here.
Kelly Calder NAH SOME OF US CLING TO OUR GUNS 7 RELIGION & SOME OF YOU CLING TO YOUR SOCIALISM & ELITE INTOLERANCE!!!!!!!!!!!
Kelly Calder Neither was the swastika!
Kelly Calder guess your one of the muslims, poor thing your too stupid to understand what your getting into, guess you believe that female and child slavery is a good thing! your right some Americans think their in the stone age with their fellow muslims still selling children and stoneing women to death!!!
William Scull Radical muslims kill children, radical christians rape them
Kelly Calder guess you don't realise under shariah law a women caught not wearing a burqa in public is a death by stoneing sentance—-talk about stone age!!!!!
Kelly Calder Good chance in some areas of Britain controlled by Sharia law, that if you don't wear a burqa, you get stoned, burned, beaten, whipped, thrown in jail or have acid thrown in your face. Nice people who want to turn the clock back 1500 years.
Kelly Calder WRONG! The very moment that Jesus was nailed to the CROSS it took on great significance. That you don't understand that just demonstrates your IGNORANCE about a faith that you clearly despise. And no, Muslims do NOT respect other people's rights or religions. The Qur'an tells them they may not. 1500 years of additional writings tell them they may not. They are taught, openly, that there are only two options for any human being; convert to Islam or die. That is why adherents are so bloody violent. Jesus taught, however, that gentleness and love is the only way to win over another man's heart. When you are struck, turn the other cheek. Yes, a great many "followers" failed to learn that lesson and waged many wars in His name, but the Message is there nonetheless. However, when He returns it will not be all doves and rainbows, but that time is not yet. The Muslims believe however that they must forcibly convert the whole world or kill anyone who refuses.
They remind me of the Borg…"you WILL be assimilated. resistance is FUTILE." Where as Christians, true Christians, are more like the tribbles…love and care and feeding will multiply them to no end.
Matthew Malkowski muslims rape them 1st, rape their mama's, and daddy's, in fact gay sex is normal for muslims
Oh, and Calder, you might not want to share you affiliation with the US Military when spouting trash about Christians. Not that the US Military is a Christian organization, but there certainly are a lot of armed Christian's in the Army.
Also, one has to wonder if you haven't been brain washed like the "judge" who told an assault victim that he deserved to be assaulted because he offended the Muslim man who assaulted him and then explained that he knew that because of his time serving in the mid-east.
Jon Morrison So islam is just like christianity? NOW you're making sense! It's not just the priests and the altar boys either! Look at uber christian republican politicians too, they love the gaysex! (e.g. mark foley, ted haggerd, larry craig, glenn murphy jr)
Kelly Calder again wrong you are. Eric Holder, United States Attorney General, announced last week that the US Government has the right based upon a joint resolution of Congress (a joint resolution is NOT a law) to MURDER US Citizens abroad who the US decides are enemies of the state. When questioned by Congress on the issue a few days later, FBI Director Muller could not affirm or deny that the so called "authority" Holder claimed existed applied to MURDERS on US Soil. So, Holder clarified and stated that the authority is not limited by geography…meaning that one day your CO may very well LAWFULLY ORDER YOU to MURDER a US CITIZEN on US SOIL because Eric Holder decided that due process wasn't required. That US Citizen could even be a US PRESIDENT if the rest of the government decided that president was an enemy of the state. So, don't think for one second that you will never be called on to follow an order that the entirety of humanity finds inhuman, offensive, or flat out criminal, because the current United States Attorney General has said that one day you very well may be.
(for the secret service – JUST TO BE CLEAR I am NOT NOT NOT suggesting that Calder, myself, or anyone else do anything to our current president, living former presidents, or any person who might successfully obtain the presidency at a later date, elections work just fine for me thank you very much.)
Kelly Calder again wrong you are. Eric Holder, United States Attorney General, announced last week that the US Government has the right based upon a joint resolution of Congress (a joint resolution is NOT a law) to MURDER US Citizens abroad who the US decides are enemies of the state. When questioned by Congress on the issue a few days later, FBI Director Muller could not affirm or deny that the so called "authority" Holder claimed existed applied to MURDERS on US Soil. So, Holder clarified and stated that the authority is not limited by geography…meaning that one day your CO may very well LAWFULLY ORDER YOU to MURDER a US CITIZEN on US SOIL because Eric Holder decided that due process wasn't required. That US Citizen could even be a US PRESIDENT if the rest of the government decided that president was an enemy of the state. So, don't think for one second that you will never be called on to follow an order that the entirety of humanity finds inhuman, offensive, or flat out criminal, because the current United States Attorney General has said that one day you very well may be.
(for the secret service – JUST TO BE CLEAR I am NOT NOT NOT suggesting that Calder, myself, or anyone else do anything to our current president, living former presidents, or any person who might successfully obtain the presidency at a later date, elections work just fine for me thank you very much.)
Kelly Calder NOT RIGHT NOW WE WILL
Kelly Calder whats your point? What do you personally think of when you see someone wearing a cross? The way Israel gave God's blessing to Joseph's gentile kids or Jesus dying on the cross to save gentile and Jew alike. Don't say crosses aren't for Christians because they're older than Christianity. The Nazi swastika symbol used to mean peace before the Nazi's came around, now who do you attribute the symbol too?
Kelly Calder the cross has come to be associated with Christianity regardless of it's origin. And it has been for @ 2000 years. You are right that an occasional nut does go after abortionists (People who end the beating hearts of indefensible babies), but our Bible does not endorse it, whereas the Qur'an does indeed the killing of anyone that is not Muslim…if an occasional doctor murders his wife you certainly don't condemn all doctors! However young, male muslims have created a great deal of the world's angst in the last 20 or so years. And as to the stone age, muslims have not come out of 7th century Arabia if they strictly follow the Qur'an. Before the age of Islam the Arabian people contributed greatly to science and art, but once Islam kicked in it is THEY who dropped back to stone age participation.
Kelly Calder I believe the most ignorant bigot out there is you. Please stop calling others ignorant as you clearly don't have a clue. The thousands being murdered in the name of the sick cult islam is obviously not worse than being verbally attacked by a Christian. You are a hypocrite. Shame on you.
Kelly Calder is a filthy muslim convert.
Kelly Calder the only ignorant person here is you. When did you become a an expert on Islam? Have you ever worked with Muslims? You claim to be in the army but are probably either in supply or a clerk typist. There is a big problem when a government tells its citizens that you can not show a religious symbol because they deem it to be not inclusive of the religion. If you do not get that you are as ignorant as the muslims you are trying to defend.
Gary Farley I don't care if someone wears a cross. Fuck I was just stating that employers can state certain dress codes. At first without knowing I attributed the swatsika to Nazis but now I know better. It's called thinking outside the box.
Alexis Jimenez So because I may or may not have worked with Muslims (I did) I can't be an "expert" on it? I'm not an "expert" on any religion but I have read up on it. Are you an expert at your religion? No one is an expert unless they have spent their life to researching it.
You tell me I "claim" to be in the Army but I'm probably "in supply or a clerk typist?" Um I wasn't aware that "clerk typist" was still a job in the Army. No that is not my job either of them. I don't have to explain to you what my job is but I'm a female so it's not a combat arms MOS.
You're the ignorant one. What they do in Britain I don't care about.
Kelly Calder so the person who doesn't believe the cross is a symbol of Christians is and expert on when Jesus was born, but the way you talk he never existed? I've read many of your post and clearly you have absolutely no idea of what your talking about but I guess either liberal or muslim are paying you to post crap your clueless about, I hope some day you wake up and open your eyes before it's too late. People like your ARE the problem not the solution. as far as britain you need to realise after europe and britain America's next.
Jon Morrison No one is paying me to post crap. You're crazy man. Just don't comment to me anymore. "The way I talk" he never existed? When did I say that? You're weird dude.
Kelly Calder oh yes. In the army you are either a trigger puller or you are just a support puke. Well if you do not know what a 71L is, then you are probably in supply. That tells me that you have never worked with muslims outside the wire. Of course you will not tell me what your supposed MOS is because you are ashamed. I will tell you what mine was because I am not ashamed, 18F look it up because you do not know what that is. I worked with more muslims than you have ever seen…..
But today it is associated with Christians.
Lol, everything has to be about Muslims, doesn't it? Get that chip off of your shoulder, chap.
I hope you realize that the British Government is ran by Anglicans, not Muzzies.
Alexis Jimenez I am NOT supply lol. Wow. No I'm not. And I'm not a "support puke." There are a lot of MOSs that I haven't heard of in the Army and 71L – "administrative specialist" is not one. I heard of 42A which is usually admin and the clerks in S1.
I'm not "ashamed" of my MOS. So you're a SF Ops/Intel sergeant? So you're support too. Working in Ops. I doubt you work in SF. Most guys in SF don't say that they do but whatever if you say so, you are. I just don't feel the need to broadcast it.
So what if you "worked with Muslims." That doesn't mean you "understand" the religion. You know the guys who brag about the shit they do are usually full of it I've learned. And I guarantee you if I ask people at work "What is a 71L MOS?" They'll look at me crazy. You're a bit of a tool.
Kelly Calder But the cross is most definitely a Christian symbol. If not, then let's not quarrel about whether they can be allowed on government property. The swastika was long a symbol of good, but we all know ascribe something entirely different. We should celebrate spirituality, not deny it. We should not have an issue with the burka, hijab, yarmulke – or cross. Jon, the "diaper" comment is inflammatory and immediately removes any weight of your argument. Please consider showing the respect you expect.
Kelly Calder But the cross is most definitely a Christian symbol. If not, then let's not quarrel about whether they can be allowed on government property. The swastika was long a symbol of good, but we all know ascribe something entirely different. We should celebrate spirituality, not deny it. We should not have an issue with the burka, hijab, yarmulke – or cross. Jon, the "diaper" comment is inflammatory and immediately removes any weight of your argument. Please consider showing the respect you expect.
Kelly Calder the cross is a symbol of extreme importance in Christian terms. And the entire Muslim faith was founded off a branch Christian history.who the feck you calling ignorant?
Susan Kaitukoff Well, you want to re-read the Old Testament and check the applicability to some 'modern' Evangelists. An Eye for an Eye…Nuke them, kill them…really Christian
Susan Kaitukoff Well, you want to re-read the Old Testament and check the applicability to some 'modern' Evangelists. An Eye for an Eye…Nuke them, kill them…really Christian
Jon Morrison Does questioning your belief make a person a 'Liberal or Muslim' which, by your saying is basically the same 'evil'? Man, you really have a problem.
Kelly Calder I'm sorry, what generally well known subject was associated with the cross before Jesus Christ? Half the world believes in Jesus Christ, and most of the rest have heard of Him and His Cross.
Kelly Calder I do not mean to offend but your comments belie your grasp on the subjects at world we live in. They seem to reflect plethora of misinformation reported by the media as a whole. From someone who has lived in the middle east for three years and taught as an authority in a learned institution I believe you are severely misguided. I hope that it is of no fault of your own and that it is b/c you have not either lived in the region and studied the history of Islam or it is b/c you have not read authors who have lived the life in which the majority of Americans are clueless. A few authors that have a grasp on the subject: Brigette Gabriel (Lebanese), Irgun Caner (former follower of Islam and currently a professor), the Son of Hamas is written by the son of a founding member of Hamas. and then there's Wafa Sultan. These are just a few that come to mind as I respond to your comment of Stone Age. There are several others that risk their lives daily to enlighten the general populace. Unlike the creators of South Park (horrible show to begin with) who slander Christians and cow to Islam b/c of threats to its staff. Imagine that, Hollywood caving to such a peaceful people. I assure you that if there were extremist Christians to the tune of 100's of millions then we would be rounded up and summarily executed as was the fate of those who lived in Saudi Arabia in the 7th century. When 800 jewish men were placed in a grave they dug and their heads were loped off, one by one, at the behest of Mohammid himself. Ignorance is a cureable condition, please have the courage to read those I have mentioned. Many blessings to you and may your readings spark a light of truth in your life. I trust you realize that am not responding out of malice or hate, only to enlighten and educate.
Kelly Calder Wrong, the cross DID NOT exist as a religious symbol before it became assosiated with Christ after his crucifixtion. It is the primary symbol representing the Christian faith, and wearing it could very well be considered a requirment of the faith, since all christians are required to proclaim their faith in Jesus for the whole world to see.
In all honesty, I do not know why people like you have a problem with people wearing crosses. If you are not a believer, than it is just a piece of jewlery. What does it matter to you what someone else is wearing? I don't care if someone wears a cross, star of David, burka, or Spock ears.
Kelly Calder Kelly, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest person on the planet. Of COURSE the cross is a symbol of Christianity and it has been since Christ was crucified. The swastika has been around for thousands of years also, but only a complete moron would say that the swastika symbolizes anything other than Nazism. Grow up.
Kelly Calder they verbally attack people?What are you trying to imply by verbal attacks. I can assure you verbal attacks are not confined to only religious.
John Burnett Actually no I don't believe most of what the media reports. I know most of it is bs and they don't have all the facts. I have read up on Islam – not thoroughly – but it is no more violent than Christianity has been. You're going to tell me Christianity doesn't have a dark past? C'mon. Actually the South Park creators DID show Muhammad on the first Super Friends episode – before 9/11. THEY wanted to show it on the second one but Comedy Central pulled that decision not the creators. South Park is a pretty good show that addresses a lot of issues in our society that people are too scared to talk about. They slander EVERYONE on that show.
I never said Islam had a perfect history. ALL religions get twisted by the people who follow them. No one is perfect. I can't stand ANY religion. But I'm not going to sit back while people act like Christians are so perfect and never have done anything wrong. Christians have their extremists and have had extremists. People have committed horrible acts in the name of "god" and have been Christians.
Charlie Hill It is a symbol of Christianity NOW but it's not the ONLY group that uses it as a symbol. If you want to be technical it's a crucifix and not say cross. Example – the Red Cross is an organization that uses the cross symbol. I gave examples of how it was used BEFORE Christianity in belief structures.
"A complete moron would say the swastika symbolizes anything other than Nazism." Really? No a complete moron would say the swastika is ONLY a Nazi symbol. It's not. I think you need to "grow up."
Frank Fontain Yes the cross did exist as a symbol for other beliefs BEFORE Christianity. You do realize Christianity is relatively young in regards to other religions and that beliefs existed BEFORE Christianity right?
People like me? I don't have a "problem" with people wearing it. For goodness sake are some of you people mentally challenged? Like have a legitimate mental disorder? You keep saying that I think or feel a certain way when I haven't said any of that. I was commenting on the article and simply stated that employers can tell employees what to wear or not wear. That's all I said. So to be clear I DON'T CARE IF SOMEONE WEARS A CRUCIFIX NECKLACE! Does that help?
Jon Morrison Homosexual sex happens among Christians too.
Elspeth Doe @Elspeth Doe – I missed your comments before. Now I’ve read through them. Jesus was nailed to a crucifix which is a cross shape. Maybe call it what it was and not what it looks like. I honestly DO NOT care if someone wears a crucifix necklace. I don’t. I just said that employers can make dress codes all they want. You deal with it or you quit. Some Muslims DO respect other people’s beliefs. I have met some. There are Muslims in the US Army. So there are people who are Muslim and respect others. There are true Christians (something I don’t think you are) who respect others beliefs. I know some of them. They don’t harp on me because I disagree with what they believe. Hmm…it’s funny because Islam believes many of the same things that Christians do. Those two and Judaism are the three Abrahamic religions. They hold Jesus in regard as a prophet just not a Messiah for example.
Jesus may have taught his followers to be gentle but they certainly haven’t listened in the last 2000+ years have they? Christians are just like the Borg too. They actually DID force people to convert. Read some history.
The US military is not a Christian organization you are right. “A lot of armed Christians in the Army.” I don’t care. What are they going to do? Shoot me because I’m not Christian? I ‘d like to see them try and then see what happens. Are you even in the Army? You sound very ignorant.
No I’m not brain-washed. The story that you mention about the judge – first off that atheist dude did not get “assaulted.” You can’t see anything on the camera and the dude was trying to start a fight. NOW what the judge SAID after his dismissed the case was WRONG. He should have not put his personal opinion in. He should’ve just said he dismissed the case due to lack of evidence – which there was a lack of evidence. Did you watch the tape? You can’t see anyone but only hear the atheist guy saying “Oh he’s hitting my sign” or something.
I know about the thing you mentioned with Holder. But no my CO will not “lawfully order” me to kill a US citizen on US soil. Also there is no way the government would “order” someone to kill the president. All this is in reference to Awalki. That guy was a terrorist. He hid behind his US citizenship while he plotted, planned and supplied for attacks against the US and soldiers. So he got what he had coming in my opinion.
Elspeth Doe @Elspeth Doe – I missed your comments before. Now I’ve read through them. Jesus was nailed to a crucifix which is a cross shape. Maybe call it what it was and not what it looks like. I honestly DO NOT care if someone wears a crucifix necklace. I don’t. I just said that employers can make dress codes all they want. You deal with it or you quit. Some Muslims DO respect other people’s beliefs. I have met some. There are Muslims in the US Army. So there are people who are Muslim and respect others. There are true Christians (something I don’t think you are) who respect others beliefs. I know some of them. They don’t harp on me because I disagree with what they believe. Hmm…it’s funny because Islam believes many of the same things that Christians do. Those two and Judaism are the three Abrahamic religions. They hold Jesus in regard as a prophet just not a Messiah for example.
Jesus may have taught his followers to be gentle but they certainly haven’t listened in the last 2000+ years have they? Christians are just like the Borg too. They actually DID force people to convert. Read some history.
The US military is not a Christian organization you are right. “A lot of armed Christians in the Army.” I don’t care. What are they going to do? Shoot me because I’m not Christian? I ‘d like to see them try and then see what happens. Are you even in the Army? You sound very ignorant.
No I’m not brain-washed. The story that you mention about the judge – first off that atheist dude did not get “assaulted.” You can’t see anything on the camera and the dude was trying to start a fight. NOW what the judge SAID after his dismissed the case was WRONG. He should have not put his personal opinion in. He should’ve just said he dismissed the case due to lack of evidence – which there was a lack of evidence. Did you watch the tape? You can’t see anyone but only hear the atheist guy saying “Oh he’s hitting my sign” or something.
I know about the thing you mentioned with Holder. But no my CO will not “lawfully order” me to kill a US citizen on US soil. Also there is no way the government would “order” someone to kill the president. All this is in reference to Awalki. That guy was a terrorist. He hid behind his US citizenship while he plotted, planned and supplied for attacks against the US and soldiers. So he got what he had coming in my opinion.
Mark Stepp @Mark Stepp – You don’t seem very intelligence. No I will not “join the Taliban.” I do not agree with the Taliban. They are an example of Muslim EXTREMISTS and they are terrorists. I don’t support terrorists or extremists.
Mark Stepp @Mark Stepp – You don’t seem very intelligence. No I will not “join the Taliban.” I do not agree with the Taliban. They are an example of Muslim EXTREMISTS and they are terrorists. I don’t support terrorists or extremists.
William Scull @William Scull – Oh I’m a “bafoon” am I? Way to get someone to listen to your point – insult them. Nice. Yeah it’s a Christian symbol BUT it’s not ONLY a Christian symbol. I don’t “hate” Christ. I have no opinion on Jesus. He might be a cool dude I don’t know. My beliefs are NOT a “disgrace to the uniform.” Because of people like me who VOLUNTEER to wear this uniform YOU have your rights. I didn’t say whether the government of England was right or wrong. I said an employer has the right to make a dress code. Now if they let other people wear religious symbols and not Christians fine that’s wrong. Sue their pants off. God people take things so seriously. It’s just Facebook comments.
William Scull @William Scull – Oh I’m a “bafoon” am I? Way to get someone to listen to your point – insult them. Nice. Yeah it’s a Christian symbol BUT it’s not ONLY a Christian symbol. I don’t “hate” Christ. I have no opinion on Jesus. He might be a cool dude I don’t know. My beliefs are NOT a “disgrace to the uniform.” Because of people like me who VOLUNTEER to wear this uniform YOU have your rights. I didn’t say whether the government of England was right or wrong. I said an employer has the right to make a dress code. Now if they let other people wear religious symbols and not Christians fine that’s wrong. Sue their pants off. God people take things so seriously. It’s just Facebook comments.
Dee Bristol Wow Dee Bristol you are a massive tool. Who is trying to “change the uniforms of the US military?” I think only Muslim chaplains can wear the head wraps and only while performing duties. I know that the Sikhs (who are not Muslim) have gotten waivers to not shave and to wear the head wraps. But I don’t know any Muslims who can. So I think you’re confusing Muslims with the Sikhs. Are you even in the military? You just don’t sound like you know much about it or religions outside of your own. They aren’t “my” Muslims. I can’t stand any religion. But I’m not going to treat someone like crap because people have misconceptions about a religion. Christians in the US are not “under attack” at all.
Dee Bristol Wow Dee Bristol you are a massive tool. Who is trying to “change the uniforms of the US military?” I think only Muslim chaplains can wear the head wraps and only while performing duties. I know that the Sikhs (who are not Muslim) have gotten waivers to not shave and to wear the head wraps. But I don’t know any Muslims who can. So I think you’re confusing Muslims with the Sikhs. Are you even in the military? You just don’t sound like you know much about it or religions outside of your own. They aren’t “my” Muslims. I can’t stand any religion. But I’m not going to treat someone like crap because people have misconceptions about a religion. Christians in the US are not “under attack” at all.
Jon Morrison No Jon Morrison I am not a Muslim. I don’t believe in any religions. To me, they’re all dumb. Well mostly the people who follow them are. No I don’t think that “female and child slavery” are a “good thing.” I’m not sure why you only said “female and child slavery.” I think slavery period is a bad thing. What am I getting into? Nothing. Oh and Christians never stoned people to death or burned people at the stake? Hmmm…I know there are nutty people who follow Islam. Just like the WBC nuts who are Christians and nuts who bomb abortion clinics. Or the terrorist in Norway who is Christian. Nuts are everywhere. I think I’m talking to a few on here.
Sharia law is not necessarily Islamic law. Also countries that use sharia law take it to the extreme. When Islam started, women had a LOT more freedoms than you realize and more than their European, Christian counterparts.
Jon Morrison No Jon Morrison I am not a Muslim. I don’t believe in any religions. To me, they’re all dumb. Well mostly the people who follow them are. No I don’t think that “female and child slavery” are a “good thing.” I’m not sure why you only said “female and child slavery.” I think slavery period is a bad thing. What am I getting into? Nothing. Oh and Christians never stoned people to death or burned people at the stake? Hmmm…I know there are nutty people who follow Islam. Just like the WBC nuts who are Christians and nuts who bomb abortion clinics. Or the terrorist in Norway who is Christian. Nuts are everywhere. I think I’m talking to a few on here.
Sharia law is not necessarily Islamic law. Also countries that use sharia law take it to the extreme. When Islam started, women had a LOT more freedoms than you realize and more than their European, Christian counterparts.
Who cares. Let them wear their silly little trinkets, if they are foolish enough to believe in imaginary space pixies and magic charms, why not indulge them if only for amusement.
Why is our news media refusing to say any thing about Christians being murdered in egypt, iran, Iraq, libya, all over africa, or saying any thing about hundreds of Christian women being held in jail and raped in Saudi Arabia all because their Christian?
Obviously it's in the media somewhere – and I have read it in the news here.
Satan is that you??
Kelly Calder
not on main stream news, only the underground news your president is trying to get rid of! why isn't your president doing some thing about it—probably because he enjoys it!
Jon Morrison Nope I've read it in mainstream news before. The president enjoys raping women? What are you talking about?
Jon Morrison No, because he's part of the plan. . . the media is controlled by the left. . . all except Fox News. . .
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann Oh Fox News is controlled by the extreme right that wants to just wage war on everything and be Christian and nothing else. All t he mainstream media have a political bent. I'm glad I'm not part of any political party. They're all ridiculous.
Jon What about your leaders?
Jon What about your leaders?
It's not covered because it doesn't fit the media's lexicon. They would actually have to admit that there are many muslims around the world who are radicals and dangerous. That is not the meme they've been pushing since 9/11, so therefore the violence must be hidden and marginalized.
Oh, and they think Christians are more evil than murdering muslims because Christians believe abortion is murder. So there's that too.
Samantha Wichman Conrad That doesn't even make sense. No people admit there are Muslim EXTREMISTS. There are also Christian EXTREMISTS – you know WBC and abortion clinic bombers. Or the guy in Norway who committed a terrorist act against Muslims. Yeah that got brushed away pretty quickly.
Some Christians are evil, some Muslims, some Jews some of any religion or belief can be evil.
I'll tell you why, because SATAN! is here on earth and The Mainstream Media are his most loyal followers.
Jean Carlson How's that tin foil hat of yours?
Kelly Calder People who believe in Evil are crazy. I've never seen any evidence of evil. There is no God and no Satan, and anyone who disagrees is insane and wears aluminum foil on their heads.
Not here the U.S. no, but in overseas they are. And the pictures and videos out there are truly horrific. From burning them alive to sawing their heads off slowly to make sure the person suffers. Christians are being brutally tortured and murdered especially in the middle east and Asia. The media here does not want people to know that this is going on.
Paul Sabrina Holmes You've never seen "evil?" So you don't think serial killers, people who commit genocide, people who have no basic regard for human life aren't evil? I think good and evil exist. I just am not into religion.
Jean Carlson haha I so imagined you as the church lady from SNL when I read your post… SATAN????
Todd Lindstrom: It's just his mouth piece, Kelly Calder.
And your facts / evidence for this is actaully happening since you claim the news media is not covering these reports?
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Dborah Jameson
Just as dem's and liberals under Bush–I don't have to accept obama as my saviour, you forget obama become the dem's saviour in 2008 much the same way hitler become the saviour of Germany in 1938.
Joe Schmidt try using your computer for research and learn a few things!!
Kelly Calder so you agree murdering millions of babies is evil—as obama is sending our money to Kenya for abortion!!!, I see we do have some common ground!!!
Obama would tell us that they are so violence because we have treated them so badly over the years. Shower them with our love, tolerance and welfare, and they will become great citizens, adding to the diversity which makes our nation great.
Kelly Calder …key word is "here"
Jon Morrison What are you talking about? You're crazy man.
Kelly Calder you referred to good and evil—you should know obama is NOT the good, look at his true record such as "the obama/odinga connection, where he help put a man responsible for murder and terrorism in power of a once democratically nation!!! by the way their cousins, so before you knock or back some one or some thing find out more of the truth!!! and learn the difference between good and evil
Jon Morrison I know the difference.
Christians of the world have to unite. The slippery slop is gone, we are now living in a world I do not understand or believe. We will all answer some day. Praise to Jesus Christ, may he forgive all of us.
You KNOW, Diana. . .
Yes, now is the time to stand.
Since when does wearing a cross, or other symbol of one's faith, have to be a "requirement" of the faith before one is allowed to wear it at work, or anywhere else, for that matter? Freedom of faith, freedom of expression are both basic human rights and the UK, which has so often led the way in these areas for the rest of the world to see, should not only recognize this, but continue to be an example to the rest of the world. I suspect that if Christianity taught, as a matter of doctrine, that there was no such thing as sin, and that any individual was free to live their lives without any concept of a moral accountability for their actions, that wearing a cross would not be an issue. The world will accept as truth any doctrine that DOES NOT confront them with the concept of sin. The cross does this, as it was through the cross that Jesus Christ attoned for our sin, and that is exactly why it is not considered by so many to be an affront to them. We are living in the last days of this age. The cross is the world's greatest fear, and God's greatest triumph over fear, His greatest expression of His love for His Creation. God bless you UK, My prayer is that you will find your way to the right path.
Interesting ideas …thanks
Interesting ideas …thanks
Amen Charles…the issue libs have a problem with here is the word "freedom": forgot what it means or never learned it.
The Christian faith has often talked of the coming of the Anti-Christ as an individual, but I suppose it could be a political movement as well…. Science seeks to explain 'How" things are, but religion is about 'Why' things are. Anyone who seeks to eliminate religion in favor of pure science seeks to "steal the soul" of humanity. I dread the day when the Earth is ruled by scientists alone, humans would be mere cattle.
Oh give me a freakin break…really? Religion does NOT explain "why" things are. It says "well god wants it that way." That's not a why!! Get real.
Eric–the antichrist will have a one-world govt and a one-world religion–the people in charge have been working on this for years–i.e. the Bilderbergers. . .
Bri Cole "God wanted it that way" is true, but you can do better than that can't you? WHY did you go to work? "You wanted to" What a lazy answer.
Bri Cole "God wanted it that way" is true, but you can do better than that can't you? WHY did you go to work? "You wanted to" What a lazy answer.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann the majority of the violent muslims are the foot soldiers of the one world govt and the anti-Christ.
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
HI Eric…the Bible teaches us that before THE antichrist is on board that the SPIRIT of antichrist will abound. Also that there would be many antichrists before the main guy…don't think there's any doubt about that!
Paul Sabrina Holmes I went to work today because I had to in order to get paid. That's why it's a job. That has nothing to do with god.
I'm not sure what Bri Cole thinks but I'm sure that's what she would say too. I'm not sure what that meant though what you said.
Kelly Calder That is what I thought and was going to say. I too am confused by saying "god wants it that way" is true but I can do better than that? Why do I go to work? Why does anyone go to work? How is "you wanted to" a lazy answer? I'm so confused right now.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann obama, clinton and penetta ALL have pushed the agenda 21 plans and have all pushed for the one world government, obama has been trying to position himself for years to be the king of one world!!!
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann obama, clinton and penetta ALL have pushed the agenda 21 plans and have all pushed for the one world government, obama has been trying to position himself for years to be the king of one world!!!
Jon Morrison How do you figure that he's positioning himself to be "king of the world?"
Step by incremental step.
Enough already! When will we stand up to this BS? We need to take back our RIGHTS.
When you are willing to pick up a weapon and stand in the street and demand it stop! http://www.threepercenters.ning.com
Pete Lanteri Had 14 ancestors in the American Revolution and I am sure they would do it again if needed to stop tyranny. I can do no less.
I think the Wrong question is being asked.
Try this one.
Where does a Government get the authority to tell a person what Ornamentation a person can or can not wear as long when it does not involve the health or safety of that person or others. What next what hair color is appropriate. When did the Brits move from Citizens of the State to Minions of the All Powerful State….. I Missed IT.
Well in the military they tell us what hair color we can have…it is a bit different scenario but an employer can tell someone how they should look and dress.
Look up the Bildergers group. . . they and a few others are in control. What they don't understand is that Christ WILL defeat them!
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann O-m-g. Ridonkulous…(what you said and that you believe it).
Kelly Calder never once in my 22 years in the US NAVY was I told what color my hair could be. What an idiot you are unless you wanted pink and blue stripes on your noggin.
John Wilson In the Army it has in regulation for females – Idk about males – that if we dye our hair it has to be of a natural color. No purple, pink, neon, etc. You would think people would use common sense but obviously not. I would also assume that applied to men since some dudes like to dye their hair. That's what I meant smartass.
Kelly Calder, the military is a very different scenerio. Riddle me this, just because I have a cross on my watch or around my neck does that make me religious? Does it offend you that I may were something like the crosss but not be a christian. Maybe I just simply like the look. You might like a heart shaped pendent but I might think it looks awful. Who are you or I to tell the other person not to wear it because we might not like it or it offends me even thought it's not offensive.
Brian Whitaker Wow I never said I was "offended" by religious symbols LOL! Where do you people get this crap from? Do you like attributing statements to people that they didn't make?
I just said an employer can tell employees what not to wear or they don't hire them or can fire them. There are dress codes, etc, in civilian jobs. And some jobs you shouldn't have jewelry on. Is that not a fact? Calm down man.
Kelly Calder
Did they force you to join? If you joined on your own accord than you accepted the reqiurments of doing so. I don't think they want you in the field with bright red hair so everyone can see you. If you did you would be dead in short time as well as others around you.
Kelly Calder Just curious are Sikhs allowed to wear headgear in the army?
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann …you are right and you know you are…don't listen to "her". Yeshua wins in the end, and so do all believers, but between now and then we will see a terrible malevolent world and have much sorrow. Remember "in the last days mockers will come." They are all around us.
Jerry Bookout Omg are you retarded? I NEVER SAID that I wanted to dye my hair a non-natural color. LOL. Geez. I used that as an example of an employer putting out guidance on what employers could wear or have their hair. Wow – and people think the younger generations are dumb. I mean really why are people attributing things to me that I never said??? It was an EXAMPLE! Got it yet?
It's Britain who cares? Also as far as I understand it's not a requirement to be a Christian you have to wear a cross. In fact I know of no requirements in the Bible or anything else about Christians having to wear such things.
No, Kelly, because wearing the Cross came later with the development of the Christian movement. The cross and the ichthus ( sign of the fish, fishers of men) were mainly displayed in secret–because followers of The Way were tortured and killed for displaying it. . .
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann Whatever. It's not a requirement as part of your religion.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann …TAKE up your cross and follow me, SAID >>>>WHO??? Jesus. So that is what we should do.
Melissa Matthews Wiesmann there have been a lot of developed requirements for Christians by man…one is displayed in First Timothy and First Corinthians — Women should not speak, should not be a leader, should not be the head of faithful worship (i.e. Sunday School Teachers, Teachers, Politicians, Local Leaders)…neither of which do I agree. Be Like Christ means to love God and Love Your Neighbor (a constant NT reference). I can not speak for Christ as I have not be designated to do so, as no other person should as well.
Nancy G Warren "Take Up Your Cross and Follow Me" is not LITERAL. It means to be like Christ. That is an indisputable interpretation by legitimate biblical scholars that Christ's call is to be like him, not to become him. To become Christ you remove the importance of his call and replace it with someones personal interpretation.
If it is "required" then it is meaningless. A man converted against his will remains unconverted still. We wear our symbols to show it is OUR faith, not an attempt to make it anyone else's. Tolerance is so one-sided….
Susan Kaitukoff Then all those people who have been forcibly converted by Christians over the years are not true Christians right? By your logic?
By the way, the cross depicted with this article is not a crucifix–the true crucifix will protect you against satan…
LOL!! OMG no it will NOT! Are you serious? If there's a devil you think a cross will stop it??? What world do you live in?
Bri Cole Christ's world and it is not of this world. . . go to Bayside Prophecies website and you will be amazed at the words of the Holy Mother throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s at Bayside, New York. . .
Bri Cole Old Screwtape has you fooled …his biggest success…fooling folks into thinking he does not exist. YOU fell for it.
Gotta agree with Bri on this…a cross is only a symbol, and Jesus did not finish his mission on the cross, but victoriously OFF the cross.. Only the Holy Spirit can take on satan…we are told not to engage him but ask God to engage for us…Maybe we should wear an open grave instead of the symbol of the execution???
But I like my crosses, especially the ones linked in the "roots of faith" symbol, thought by many to be the actual first symbol of Christianity…
The only reason one would be repulsed by the crucifix is if you are possessed.
Amen, Monika!!
But you can sport a beard and a rag hat? Kiss my _____!
Not long now, all of this is predicted in the bible. Governments turning on God is in revelations. The end is nearing, are you ready?
It would be nice if it just happen & get it all over with. Still waiing on big daddy in the sky to put an end to all this cahos & ignorance.
Agreed.
This is the beginning of a bloody renewal for the USA. Jefferson predicted this. Christ -centered Libertarians will be left standing.
Amen Brother;-)
Amen Brother;-)
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Yeah it is hard to wait and see all this stuff coming true right in front of us, but remember God is patient so that every last one who WILL come to Him, DOES come…He is not willing that any should perish…good thing I am not God…
One Bible teacher stated that before the Balfour declaration in 1920-ish times they had to scratch like chickens just to see a sign of prophecy being fulfilled. Today the signs are in our face. Even so come quickly Messiah!
Amen!
Peter Scranton Funny Jefferson is my fav president I'm a libertarian christian who is willing to fight for my beliefs so you may just be on to something I know many others like myself.
Wilburforce just rolled over in his grave!
I'm an American that lives in the UK (English Husband) and frankly speaking, a Christian in the UK is the target of more hate and vitriol than any other group. Everything that has ever happened in recorded history that is horrid is blamed on Christians….quite a break for Alexander the Great etc. To believe is seen as a weakness and that you are racist, homophobic, and probably kick puppies. Yep it is heading to America, be strong folks!
Persecution of Christians alive and well! Everyone of every faith should stand up and support each other, or governments will get rid of each and every faith on the face of the earth! This is not an attack on one but an attack on all!
I will wear my crucifix, fly my AMERICAN flag and carry a gun. If you want any of those three, you can rip them from my dead hand. It's time for God fearing Christians in America to stand up and refuse to tolerate the double standard emerging in this country. And Kelly Calder….no need to respond, I'm just going to pray for you.
Christians of America: Boycott British Airways. The AntiChrist Airline.
Leland Williams Jr. France while we're at it
Leland Williams Jr. I already did. When the incident happend originally several years ago I cancelled a package deal to Scotland with Brit airways…. went to France instead. AT least the food was MUCH BETTER.
James Ferguson France is at least trying to stop the islamic madness… no head gear at school and public buildings,no halal meat in schools and not sold in stores to unsuspecting non-islamics. I just read that they are not allowing the muslims to dictate the science class subjects either. At least they RECOGNISE they have a problem! I pray they succeed.
Wow. Such arrogance.
Wow. Such arrogance.
James Ferguson …do you know what the French are credited with inventing? The white flag!
Why are people going after me? All I said was employers have dress codes. Geez. Oh and Marie L. Monyak THIS WAS IN BRITAIN NOT AMERICA!! Did you read the article?
To: Marie L. Monyak I don't wear my crosses much but I think I will start wearing them more because I agree with everything you said.
What the hell is all this god fearing stuff about?
This is not about the cross. It's about a job where you work with people directly and they want a neutral appearance. It's the christians who are trying to shove it down everyone else's throats.
Just like at disney, you aren't allowed to have visible tattoos, but you can have tattoos that are hidden from view, which is where the cross should have been as well.
Do not confuse a 'war on christianity' with not always getting your own way.
Must be a California thing. I have never had a problem with a tattoo at Disney World and I’m sure it because they would not have anyone going in.
If an employer has the right to do as he pleases then he is free to disallow gay people from occupying rooms in his hotel as well, like he is free to disallow any other religious attire. But should he do so he will be sued and he will loose. So I guess it's a wee bit to early to speak. The court is yet to deliver a verdict. But yes this is an attack on the Christian faith. Simply cos the government has chosen to interfere.
Jerry Bookout Not you. The people who work there.
This is not about the cross. It's about a job where you work with people directly and they want a neutral appearance. It's the christians who are trying to shove it down everyone else's throats.
Just like at disney, you aren't allowed to have visible tattoos, but you can have tattoos that are hidden from view, which is where the cross should have been as well.
Do not confuse a 'war on christianity' with not always getting your own way.
Kiss my Ass! a Christian
Try and remove mine!!!
Or they could just fire you, if you were an employee of British Airways, and wore your cross where visible, and refused to remove it for your working hours.
Once again, this is Government interferring with our rights as Christians. I won't remove mine and I won't ride on British Airways; I'll give someone else the money!
Once again, this is Government interferring with our rights as Christians. I won't remove mine and I won't ride on British Airways; I'll give someone else the money!
When is it we can say OUTLOUD! That "S A T A N" is here amoung us?
When is it we can say OUTLOUD! That "S A T A N" is here amoung us?
It's clear to me that that indeed is the case NOW! Where, precisely I cannot tell yet. For me, I am left with the Lord Jesus Christ as my refuge. All is following God's divine plan. No need to worry.
This is no different than refusing to let Pagans wear their pentacles at work/school. And yet, I havn't seen such an uproar as this one… But I know why. The overwhelming majority of Americans and English-speaking countries are CHRISTIAN. Why do you feel like you're being persecuted when there's so many of you? As a Pagan, being less than 1% of the American population, I feel like I can speak about being discriminated against… It happens every day to me. But I don't whine about it. I know that even if I'm not wearing my pentacle, that I am right with my gods. These symbols are just pieces of metal, and while they are religious expression, do you really need to express your religion at ALL times? No.
This is no different than refusing to let Pagans wear their pentacles at work/school. And yet, I havn't seen such an uproar as this one… But I know why. The overwhelming majority of Americans and English-speaking countries are CHRISTIAN. Why do you feel like you're being persecuted when there's so many of you? As a Pagan, being less than 1% of the American population, I feel like I can speak about being discriminated against… It happens every day to me. But I don't whine about it. I know that even if I'm not wearing my pentacle, that I am right with my gods. These symbols are just pieces of metal, and while they are religious expression, do you really need to express your religion at ALL times? No.
You are definitely right with your gods, but they don't have the authority to damn to hell for eternity.
Paul Sabrina Holmes They sure don't. Luckily I don't even believe in a Hell and neither do they.
You should be able to wear your religious jewelry < It does not offend me as long as everybody gets to do the same. ANd the govt/authorities have not even got a
"dog" in this fight… and not the courts either. IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED PERIOD. ALL or NONE. Either everybody gets to or NOBODY gets too.
Julianne Luna-Kitty Yelfiah …Read Genesis Chapter Three…the "Seed plot" of the Bible and see the four lies that satan used to get Eve to sin…they are the same today….satan uses what works…the denial of God's Word l. And I don't believe the argument here is that you can't wear your symbols if you desire. But you should be concerned that Christians are being denied as it will apply eventually to all "faiths" except the final one of satan…which will then be destroyed by a true and righteous God. The end is decreed, but man will create much sorrow between now and then. Jesus came and died to pay a price we couldn't pay…at least consider it…He did it because He loves you…he loved me even before I cared a whit about Him and proves Himself daily. Prophecy proves scripture…no other belief system has it…
I guess I'll think twice before saying "God Bless You" when the passenger beside me sneezes. They might hand me a parachute for proselytizing without a license.
What is right is deemed wrong, and we can see this in so many places in the world today. Our leaders have no moral character, care less about the people they serve, and are headed to wipe God from the hearts of men. Satan relishes fear. Hold firm, the Lord sees the evil of men and despite all, evil does not win. God is in control. Meanwhile we must live with small minds and those who have forgotten where their breath of life comes from.
What is right is deemed wrong, and we can see this in so many places in the world today. Our leaders have no moral character, care less about the people they serve, and are headed to wipe God from the hearts of men. Satan relishes fear. Hold firm, the Lord sees the evil of men and despite all, evil does not win. God is in control. Meanwhile we must live with small minds and those who have forgotten where their breath of life comes from.
if someone in government authority ever tells me I can't wear a cross or crucifix they had better be armed and ready cause it's going to go down hard right then and there.
EVEN a small mouse, some day, when backed into a corner, will some day turn on his attackers.
Christ predicted persecution….don't worry…all will turn out well for those accept Christ as their personal savior.
You are right Paul, yet I mourn for those who turn their backs. Isaiah Chapter five as wrong and right exchange places in our world…
be assured that it is the secularists worldwide, but especially in the Western World, that are intent on taking down the most powerful, influential religion, Christianity, first, then one by one the rest till there are none left. They will deceptively use the one faith against the other to do their bidding, but care for none of them as they are surely the agents of the Evil One that wishes all to live under the dark flag of the godless.
"Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our.
heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove.
ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy.
will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning,
and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and.
confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way.
Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people, the.
multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues.
Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those whom in Thy name we.
entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice.
and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we.
may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In
time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the.
day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which.
we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."
President Thomas Jefferson.
Washington D.C.
March 4, 1801.
You go Chris! Shalom!
Nice try Chris but Thomas Jefferson never wrote OR said these words. http://candst.tripod.com/studygd7d.htm
Thomas Jefferson did write this though: The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
and this:
Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences…. If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you.
– Thomas Jefferson, to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787
Yes Richard, he did, and any source you have that says he didnt is simply false.
why are christians not allowed to build a church in saudi arabia, the most virtuous country of islam which muslims claim but can not demonstrate to be a tolerant religion?
Anybody wonder how long it will take for liberal judges in this country to find precedent in decisions made in foreign courts?
Scarily true and sadly already happening…google… leon panetta NATO UN U.S. congress….
Scarily true and sadly already happening…google… leon panetta NATO UN U.S. congress….
Scarily true and sadly already happening…google… leon panetta NATO UN U.S. congress….
America. Love it or leave it! Iraq is due east, now all you sympathizers head east and carry your trash with you.
Too late for brits. If they don't want to be discriminated in Londonstan they have only one right: to convert to Islam.
Too late for brits. If they don't want to be discriminated in Londonstan they have only one right: to convert to Islam.
What are you talking about? Muslims are 3% of the population, and are not running British Airways or in the government
James Ferguson Exactly! Sheesh this has notin to do with Islam. This has everything to do with the lobbyists who run the show in Britain. And they are not Muslim!!!
What does this article have to do with Islam,Tatyana? One can infer from your post that you think Islamists get preferential treatment over Christians in the UK but the article makes no mention of how other religious symbols are dealt with and really there is no difference in Christianity and Islam as far as sheer lunacy goes.
Facebook spell-check clearly shows muslim as a miss-spelled word when using lower case. It does not give Christian the same respect. Stand up for your religion all you can, because things like this will soon move to America.
So now Spell-Check is persecuting Christians too?
It's selective
Adam Saldaña Quick unrelated question: You don't actually pull up rail spikes by hand, do you? There's gotta be some sort of machine for that, right? I'm actually curious about this.
Ken Thor White we use a "rail-road" claw bar. You can google it under IMAGE and there are a few pictures. But there are machines that bigger companies use.
So yes in our case it's by hand. Thousands and thousands of spikes per year. Ton's would be a better way to put it.
Overrule the Ten Commandments? Not a good idea. Except, that is, for that good ole' Second Commandment where God the Father becomes a character from The Godfather.
but you can wear a vail?
and allah is aan idiot….. only invented by mohammed to control ignorant middle easterners….
Employers have rights, including, quite often, dress codes. No big deal here.
True. But then again this is selective. These are state organizations attacking a faith. Whereas shld a private organization enforce strict code that interferes with any religion(minority including gays) in any way,the pvt organization wld get sued and would loose. In that event you would not see the government interfering. But in this instance the government has taken it upon themselves to fight this case. Besides the government has also taken a distinctly anti-Christian stand.
This issue is not about "an" employer have dress code rules, which is fine. This is about the GOVERNMENT saying NO-ONE can wear a cross to ANY employer. Not acceptable..but lets argue over the same thing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UAnb51BYlU
Jewelry is not a requirement for any faith. The truly faithful know that such jewelry is but a tinkling of the bells. It is show for some crutch for others. Those who wear it well know when to take it off. You know, like when an employer asks you to.
True rant from a muslim…….
In The Name of Jesus of Nazareth I curse the darkness of Islam! For it is written to the Christian, Matthew_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT prevail against it.