Apr 27, 2012
Print This Post
As many as 100 high school students walked out of a national journalism conference after an anti-bullying speaker began cursing, attacked the Bible and reportedly called those who refused to listen to his rant “pansy assed.”
The speaker was Dan Savage, founder of the “It Gets Better” project, an anti-bullying campaign that has reached more than 40 million viewers with contributors ranging from President Obama to Hollywood stars. Savage also writes a sex advice column called “Savage Love.”
Savage, and his husband, were also guests at the White House for President Obama’s 2011 LGBT Pride Month reception. He was also invited to a White House anti-bullying conference.
FOLLOW TODD ON FACEBOOK FOR CULTURE WAR NEWS
Savage was supposed to be delivering a speech about anti-bullying at the National High School Journalism Conference sponsored by the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association. But it turned into an episode of Christian-bashing.
Rick Tuttle, the journalism advisor for Sutter Union High School in California, was among several thousand people in the audience. He said they thought the speech was one thing – but it turned into something else.
“I thought this would be about anti-bullying,” Tuttle told Fox news. “It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.”
SARAH PALIN LOVES TODD’S NEW BOOK
SO DOES MARK LEVIN AND SEAN HANNITY.
CLICK HERE TO GET YOUR COPY OF DISPATCHES FROM BITTER AMERICA
Tuttle said a number of his students were offended by Savage’s remarks – and some decided to leave the auditorium.
“It became hostile,” he said. “It felt hostile as we were sitting in the audience – especially towards Christians who espouse beliefs that he was literally taking on.”
Tuttle said the speech was laced with vulgarities and “sexual innuendo not appropriate for this age group.” At one point, he said Savage told the teenagers about how good his partner looked in a speedo.
The conservative website CitizenLink was the first to report about the controversy. They interviewed a 17-year-old girl who was one of students who walked out of the auditorium.
“The first thing he told the audience was, ‘I hope you’re all using birth control,’” she told CitizenLink. “he said there are people using the Bible as an excuse for gay bullying, because it says in Leviticus and Romans that being gay is wrong. Right after that, he said we can ignore all the (expletive deleted) in the Bible.”
As the teenagers were walking out, Tuttle said that Savage heckled them and called them pansy-assed.
“You can tell the Bible guys in the hall they can come back now because I’m done beating up the Bible,” Savage said as other students hollered and cheered. “It’s funny as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-assed people react when you push back.”
The executive director of the National Scholastic Press Association provided Fox News with joint statement from the Journalism Education Association that was sent to members – after a number of people complained about Savage’s remarks.
“We appreciate the level of thoughtfulness and deliberation regarding Dan Savage’s keynote address,” the NSPA wrote. “some audience members who felt hurt by his words and tone decided to leave in the middle of his speech, and to this, we want to make our point very clear: While as a journalist it’s important to be able to listen to speech that offends you, these students and advisers had simply reached their tolerance level for what they were willing to hear.”
The NSPA said they did not have a prior transcript of Savage’s speech and that wish “he had stayed more on target for the audience of teen journalists.” They also said it provided a “teachable moment” for students.
As for Savage’s attack on people of faith?
“While some of his earlier comments were so strongly worded that they shook some of our audience members, it is never the intent of JEA or NSPA to let students get hurt during their time at our conventions,” they wrote.
However, not once did the NSPA or the JEA offer any apologies to the students or faculty advisors or anyone else in attendance.
Savage did offer a sarcastic apology “if I hurt anyone’s feelings.”
“But I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other.”
Tuttle said that he “felt duped” by the event. “There were Christian schools who went to the conference. To have this happen was disappointing and shocking.”
The NSPA said they should have done a better job preparing schools for what to expect.
For his part, Tuttle said that he will definitely be more cautious about the speakers at future conventions.Tuttle related how Savage told students that for a number of years he was not allowed in schools. He told the students that because it’s gained national acceptance “he’s reveling in the fact that it’s basically a middle finger to all those teachers and administrators who wouldn’t let him have access to those students before.”
But for some of Tuttle’s students – they felt like the anti-bullying activist was in fact – the bully.
Related posts:
FOX News Talk
The majority of the comments here agree that Dan Savage is an intolerant person. I read the article and then the comments before I noticed that this article was taken from Fox News. I should have known due to all the crazy remarks: calling people Commies, porch monkeys, socialists in the first few posts. What rash extremist people? Where is this article from? Oh, Fox News. I am so shocked.I should have known since the article is slanted in such a way that I thought when I viewed the video it would be all f— Christians this and f— Christians that. It was not of course.
All those people who walked out were walking out on his statement to ignore the bullshit in the Bible. I am assuming you all follow word for word everything in the Bible then like stoning women and promoting slavery. I assume you all support walking out on someone attacking hate. It's okay to be against bullying but not against literature that supports bullying. Pot meet kettle.
God forbid you act like a logical person and listen to the other side's viewpoints on your religion. God forbid those people stay and actually respond to some of his statements. Should he have phrased his first comments about the Bible better? Certainly. Does that make what he said wrong and hateful? No. Pointing out hate does not make you intolerant.
For anyone who wants to know what kind of teacher Rick Tuttle is, here is the YouTube video of our high school's recent anti-drunk driving program "Every 15 minutes," which Rick Tuttle ran as school coordinator and school liaison to the various cooperating first responders, such as Fire Fighters and Police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2sClHIqvc&feature=youtu.be
This video was deemed so effective that some other schools are using it in their drivers training programs.
While it takes many hands and a lot of effort by a lot of people to make this vital student program have the desired impact on the lives of our students, I cannot over-state how vital to the success of the project is the teacher who coordinates all the various groups to bring the activity together. And that teacher at Sutter Union High School is Rick Tuttle.
If his students walked out of a "Tolerance and Anti-Bulling" conference then it was because the speaker himself was engaged in intolerant, bullying behavior. There are few more tolerant people that I know personally than Rick Tuttle.
South Park did an episode on this subject just a few weeks ago. It is vulgar but excellent political satire. I recommend it for adults only.
Toleration is not the opposite of intolerance but the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms: the one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, the other of granting it.
– Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man.
An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. HE THAT WOULD MAKE HIS OWN LIBERTY SECURE, MUST GUARD EVEN HIS ENEMY FROM OPPRESSION; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
– Thomas Paine, Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795), thanks to Laird Wilcox, ed, The Writer's Rights (2002) p. 31
There is a lesser known individual who has written a book that addresses this issue head-on having been subject to heart-wrenching circumstances all of his life.
The ebook version is free to download. Copy and paste …
LIVINGINTHEHOPEOFMYIMAGINATIONEBook
Oh hell no, don't chicken out, chicken little. Say what you mean and mean what you say!
Suck it up my fellow Christians. Stay and listen. Talk to them and your parents and your pastors. Is it any wonder Dan and others are so confused (about scriptures) and so angry! This speaks to the very core of their being and their desire to be loved. It's the basic drive of all of us, down deep, when you really think about it. Its what attracts us to God, isn't it? That deep desire to be understood, loved…accepted unconditionally. And yes, amen, human sexuality IS very complex.
Unless YOU know WHY (and can articulate) the reasons homosexuality doesn't belong in the same bucket as those Dan referred to from Leviticus, such as 'shellfish, slavery, dinner, masturbation, etc.", then be patient and be quieter in your protestations. It might be better if you seek answers to those important questions. And KNOW THIS – like you can take it to the bank know it – a good many Christians, including Christian scholars, counselors and clergy cannot answer those difficult questions, or articulate them satisfactorily if they do know. So why, in the name of our precious Lord, would we expect someone who does not love the scripture and study it "for all its worth" (like apologist Hank Hanegraaf likes to say), why would we expect them to honor or speak respectfully of the Word of God? And then add all those references to "hell" and "abomination" to the mix and, well damn, its a real no-brainer folks.
Dan Savage, I have listened to these three minutes five times now. Each time, I see a bit more into the incredible frustration you must be feeling. I agree, we must seem a bunch of "pansy-asses" (great word by the way) if we can't sit still for a few minutes and just LISTEN. Not exactly the fault of these young people though.
Did you notice teen audience, that Dan didn't use offensive words until YOU started to get up and leave? I know in your heart you wanted your response to be interpreted as "I really really love you, but I don't agree with you, I believe something else and what I believe is true". However, that isn't the sentiment that comes across by your sudden, silent departure. To the speaker, he is seeing and hearing (probably…please correct me if I'm wrong, Dan) something more like this: "I really can't stand you. You have nothing important to say to me. I don't care what you think or what you feel. Buh bye, I'm outta here!".
Shame on us.
Making comments like that isn't how "it gets better"…
You notice how the queers always bring up "slavery" as a way to somehow tie that into homosexuality. Talk about an apple and oranges argument. It's also funny to watch them justify their bullying by playing "victim" and making the claim that they are just "defending" themselves. This "pansy-ass" is just a hypocrite.
You notice how the queers always bring up "slavery" as a way to somehow tie that into homosexuality. Talk about an apple and oranges argument. It's also funny to watch them justify their bullying by playing "victim" and making the claim that they are just "defending" themselves. This "pansy-ass" is just a hypocrite.
The Bible does justify slavery; Don't be a neanderthal all of your life. So the argument the "queers" would be using, is very sound. Let me break it down for the elementary logicians: If the Bible is wrong on Slavery (which it UNDENIABLY is), is it possible the Bible equally doesn't have a scientific capacity to understand the complexities of human sexuality? Let me help you: Yes! #Right-WingReligionKillsBrainCells
I find it interesting that this was an "Anti-Bullying" conference…Looks like if you're doing reverse bullying it's ok? I don't believe in judging people for their lifestyles because that isn't what I'm here to do, however if you go bashing people and belittling them because "you were the one receiving for so many years" doesn't make you any better. You've just stooped to the level of people who have hurt you. Sad that so may people cheered this person on when they were all at this "Anti-Bullying" conference…stupid.
I know how many people know this but Savage has some how gotten a show on MTV called Savage U. Just like with the show Skins MTV continues to move away from music programming and into the Social Programming of American Youth. FYI
It's good to know some things never change. Especially is it good to know that, in the mind of the conservative / "Faux News" echo chamber, the "establishment" clause of the 1st Amend always gets warped into "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, except conservative-evangelical Chiristianity and to hell with Islam and the likes of liberal Episcopalians and Peesbyterians". The Framers would be so proud of y'all!
WOW
Did you, or anyone commenting here actually watch the video? It doesn't look like it from what I"m reading. It's also pretty obvious the students who walked out had planned to do so as a group beforehand.
Dan Savage did not curse anyone.
Dan Savage's comments in this video were dead on, and appropriate given the context.
I curse Pansy Asses of all stripes. A pox on ye!
Did you, or anyone commenting here actually watch the video? It doesn't look like it from what I"m reading. It's also pretty obvious the students who walked out had planned to do so as a group beforehand.
Dan Savage did not curse anyone.
Dan Savage's comments in this video were dead on, and appropriate given the context.
Not a bad speech at all. Why are people upset. You want to expand your mind you have to experience different ideas and the way they are presented to you.
It could have been a better speech with greater effect if he would have toned down the language and did it in a less insulting way…A Christian could have done it in away that would not insult anyone…I can't go along with the hypocrisy here…
It could have been a better speech with greater effect if he would have toned down the language and did it in a less insulting way…A Christian could have done it in away that would not insult anyone…I can't go along with the hypocrisy here…
Kelly Jackson The only hypocrisy I see is from Christians. You want to blame the victim. He said something that needed to be said and it was 3 minutes of an x amount long convention/ talk. Sometimes you have to be able to admitt that if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
I think it's wonderful when Christians (the mean-spirited ones) get a dose of their own [hateful, hideous, and horrendous] medicine. The shoe never feels good on the other foot.
Not a bad speech at all. Why are people upset. You want to expand your mind you have to experience different ideas and the way they are presented to you.
You're all so full of shit! Oh no! someone is speaking bad about our religion, just so happens to be the same way your religion speaks out badly about sexuality. You can't be against homosexuality then expect everyone to sit down and take the hateful speech. In a nutshell you need to stop being feeling like religion is the one being suppressed when in all reality religion suppressed freedom.
Republicans strike again!
Democrats hate you for what you believe. Republicans hate you for who you are.
Democrats hate you for what you believe. Republicans hate you for who you are.
Yeah, Obama cares about everyone getting bullied or abused…. unless they're unborn. He's one of American unborn babies' biggest bully.
What a load of garbage! He's got a lot of nerve to get up there and talk about how he has a right not to be bullied and then get up there and clump Christians together as a group of haters. He has the right to speak out yes, but in doing so, he chose to point himself out to be a hypocrite, as he is just as much a bully as those he would speak against.
your day is coming! YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU SPEAK..thank goodness for the teens that walked out….I would too!
Clearly Dan Savage is not a speaker who is ready to be presented to teens, considering he has the nerve to use the "bully pulpit" to verbally batter teens from his position of power, based on their religious values. He leaves no room for anyone to have any position that is not 100% in line with his, making him pretty intolerant and apparently proudly so. There is nothing wrong with him being a paid public speaker, but kids attending a school-sponsored function are more or less a captive audience and his abusive language is itself a form child abuse. He is charmingly uncivil, depending in part on the civility of others to push his own lack of civility. His message of intolerance itself would not be so smoothly delivered if, in fact, he had to deliver it to a largely hostile audience, yet he feels fine in creating hostility for some teens in his teen audience. Wow. That's just what every school administrator who values his or her job should want.
Far more damaging and potenially long-reaching is the damage that the National Scholastic Press Association has done to itself with their selection of this keynote speaker and then their lack of sufficient warning about the potentially graphic and/or offensive nature of his speech. Most school districts have a signed parent release for opting out of such graphic material. NSPA violated the trust of schools, teachers, parents and students by not providing a clear warning about the potential content of the speech. Unless they change their policy in this regard, high schools schould not send their kids to NSPA events in the future.
He spoke the truth, his language was a bit rough, however, the hypocrisy he points out is right on. Sorry you can't think about it. Also, when we are bombarded by messages like the following, you wonder why we are angry about all the things you so called 'Christians' are writing about? http://youtu.be/_im7wh2Hz7U
Whatever, it is all opinionated garbage anyway…
If: You are a college grdauate and cannot express yourself without using profanity.
Then: You should go back and ask for a refund.
I wouldn't concede that he had legitimate points at all. This guy is claiming we ignore most of Leviticus but keep that bit about homosexuality. This is simply not true. We're not ignoring parts of scripture at all. Yes, Leviticus says homosexual behaviour is wrong, but that's not what we base our present position on. As Christians, we base our conviction that homosexuality is sin not on Leviticus, but on Romans 1:21-28, I Corinthians 6:9, and I Timothy 1:9.
Leviticus is giving the Law to the Israelites. We Gentiles, and we Christians, are not under the law, and never were, so when we don't conform to Leviticus it is for a good reason.
And I don't agree with that list of things he says we have learned to ignore – shellfish, slavery, dinner, farming, menstruation, virginity, masturbation. I could give an anser about every one of those things – we are not ignoring them; at least, I'm not.
And the Bible is certainly not a radically pro-Slavery document. In fact, it was Wilberforce who eventually had slavery outlawed because of his Christian convictions. And the Bible has not got the subject of human sexuality wrong.
My first question is, why would they have this Mr. Dan Savage give a lecture on anti-bullying? Did Rick Tuttle, the journalism advisor, not look into this guy's track record? He has a history of saying abusive things. I found several examples of them with a simple search of his name. I'm not sure whether I should question the journalism advisor's motives or his competence. One would think if Tuttle's crew were doing their job properly this sort of thing would never have occurred.
I think this speaker was way out of line. It is really sad that he got away with this under the guise of "journalism", much less was it any form of legitimate high school education. I am proud of the people who left; good for them. How sad that the speaker was cheered-on by the rest who stayed.
Still, the Christians here don't sound anything like how Jesus sounded, according to the New Testament record. It IS a shame, and much to the Church's blame, when and if people are ever bullied in the name of Christianity, or treated in any way that does not show humility and an acknowledgement that "there, but for the grace of God, go I". As Jesus said, only those without sin can cast the first stone. He never talked like a lot of people here are talking. Yes, He called people to repentance, He called sin for what it was. I am not suggesting that Christians do otherwise. I am suggesting that we need to do as He did. He wept over the lost, He did good to them, He gave Himself for the chief of sinners.
The speaker had it so wrong, but it seems like many here have it wrong, too. The Word of God says that it is God's KINDNESS that leads us to repentance. Homosexuality is a sin as is fornication, as is taking God's name in vain, as is lying, adultery, as is lusting in your heart or hating your brother. Is there anyone here guilty of any of the above? Oh, and did I mention this is only a partial list?
Christianity is being very poorly represented if we think that beating anyone up is okay, for any reason besides true self-defense or defense of others. I don't agree with this guy; I believe in the Bible but I can agree with him on the point that bullying is wrong; and it sounds as if some here think it's okay. If, as some have suggested here, someone was being annoying about something and therefore deserved to be put-down, I'd still say it is incumbent upon followers of Jesus to control themselves. We remember that He did not revile again, nor did He return evil for evil; He did not defend Himself.
We aren't going to win people with all this ugly talk. The truth is that for many people, all the sense and rationale in the world will never change their minds. One could try to have a sensible conversation with this man and tell him in what ways he is misunderstanding the Scriptures, but it's possible it would not phase him in the least. But the point is to have a conversation that would represent the Lord Jesus Christ well, and not bring shame to His name. There will always be those who will still choose to willfully misunderstand, but let us not make it our fault. I think we should be careful what we say.
Jesus said that the shepherd rejoiced more over the one stray that was recovered than over the 99 who did not stray. Let us think about what that means. Jesus died to save anyone from every kind of sin. There is only one that is unpardonable; perhaps this speaker has committed that sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but that is for God alone to decide. Therefore, we must seek for the lost sheep and try to represent Jesus to be as winsome as He is.
Hats off to Dan Savage for speaking frankly and openly. It is important to highlight the rank hypocrisy of those who cherry-pick the Bible for those parts that support their own bigotry (embracing, for example, its homophobic and sexist teachings,) yet ignore the inconvenient parts (such as the support for the institution of slavery expressed in some books of the Bible, the prohibition on wearing clothes made of two different fibers, and the advocacy in Deuteronomy of the stoning to death of adulterers.)
The is great wisdom in the Bible, and there is also a whole lot of stuff that is anachronous, nonsensical, and downright immoral in the modern world. There are also many issues where the Bible simply gets it wrong. Believers and non-believers alike need to view the Bible thoughtfully, critically, and in context. Non-believers need to recognize the wisdom of some parts of this book, and believers need to have the courage to recognize the immorality and contradiction that is also to be found in its pages.
The United States claims to be a democracy, and to value freedom of speech and the open exchange of ideas. This applies to all ideas, whether they appear in the Bible, the Constitution, or the op-ed pages of the New York Times. Those who believe in the truth of the Bible should welcome any criticism as an opportunity to highlight the persuasive power of their own opinions, and the truth of their point of view. Trying to silence or delegitimize one's opponents rather than counter their arguments is a cowardly way to deal with criticism.
Wow, what a loon…to believe that parts of the Bible are wrong…I would rather you rejected the whole thing altogether…You're like luke warm milk, make me want to puke…
Kelly Jackson That's because you aren't using your brain. If you believe for one moment the Bible is infallible, you are more of a 'loon' than I previously thought. The Bible was selectively canonized "by MEN" – get this. God doesn't do "demonic possession" thus, human beings wrote the Bible. Familiar with Emperor Constantine? Do you homework (scholarly homework) and see just how much involvement (the decrepit pervert) Constantine strategically had with your beloved faith (Biblical Canon and various Doctrines). Christianity, which is a philosophical formulation "based" on what "humans" perceived the Christ manifestation (in the earth) meant!
There was no UNIFORMED Christian theology. So your buddy Emperor Constantine assembled an ecumenical council (At Nicea) to "achieve" consensus! Yes, "Human" consensus as to what the central message of Christianity should be, and, to debate the deity of Jesus (yes, it was not always accepted). Again, Humans debated this. We now have Nicean Creed – a statement of faith accepted by many mainline Christians.
Slavery: Justified in the Bible. Mars and extraterrestrial bodies: Not even mentioned in the Bible. Hmmm.. well that's probably because they didn't have 'scientific sophistication' to peer into the infinite heavens.
In short, the Bible is a book of [some wisdom] [and some madness] that is simultaneously representative of the very best of humanity [Agape Love, John 3:16, Fruits of the Spirit] and the worst [Justification for Slavery, and extermination of "ungodly" civilizations].
In context, as a historical compendium of cultures of bygone era, we can glean insights into human past and receive awesome inspiration through proverbs of wisdom that transcend every age of men. When the unscholarly begin to 'pretend' that the Bible is the "Word of God" knowing how it was selectively engineered by a host of 'cast members', is so intellectually offensive, I can't muster the words to describe such an atrocity against reason, and civility – in the name of religious indoctrination and brain washing.
Anthony Batiste No, that you have totally no spiritual insight into the Bible…Yes, you know everything…I think if you had a thermometer that measured your actual knowledge and not the BS factor, you'd have a very low temperature…Duh…Emperor Constantine???He wasn't a real Christian but used the Bible to gain political advantage…Sorry, funny…doesn't make much sense though…whatever….What do you think that I went to college for how many years and never learned this before???Anyway, nice try…
The Christians I know do not go around bashing gays. We pray for them in the quiet of our homes and give respect in the world around us. Yes there are ones who name call and act without love, but there is also a militant group of gays who do not want anyone to oppose them. They want full and total control over how America thinks and behaves. And will be opposed all the more for it. May God soften their hearts to His salvation provided for them and for the rest of us sinners.
praying doesnt get things done. thats why the great things in history are called movements. and you cant lump people that dont believe under your laws that you choose to live by. your god, your problems. if you want to make a statement, you have to be loud and do something that shows you care, not just thinking to yourself that you do.
On more example of someone showing his ignorance of Bible knowledge. It's a pity he didn't take the time to read the Bible in context. We are not living under a theocracy as Israel was in the OT. However, human sexuality covers all ages and periods. The OT penalties are not carried out as we live in God's dispensation of grace. Yet, if this man, and others, wish to practice their sodomy then let them pay the final price.
another person just thinking about gay sex. lolz.
I think I might have been tempted to throw my big print Bible at him. Lord help mi!
Violence is never the answer…. Bahahaha a joke ann!
Does Christian students walking out because Dan Savage offends them show that Christianity is strong and true not afraid if opposition, or weak and afraid?
According to the bible… every young christian female who walked out of that conference who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stones to death. No one is saying that Christians should be beaten, or discriminated against. However Christians *are* saying that gays should be…. No one is "bullying" Christians.
To put this in perspective, if the tenets of Islam can rationaize walking into a Christian church and murdering people who his faith tells him are apostates…. then can't Christians see how hate and bigotry done in the name of christianity is *also* wrong? Calling Savage a "Bully" would be like calling Jews bullies for protesting Nazi's. Some of the people posting here aren't Christians… they are bigots who use their "faith" to enact their small mindedness.
It is apparent that Most of the alleged Christians posting here have never actually read the bible. There is nothing more anti-American than a litteral translation of the bible. This country was founded on the heels of *THE ENLIGHTENMENT*…. The concept of *METAPHOR* is what brought us out of the dark ages.
you'll be surprised how many christians haven't actually read the bible. i'm pagan, and i've read more of the bible then most christians.
Martha Camejo its a scray truth. i hate when they pick what is meant to be a metaphor and what is meant to be takin as law.
Depends on your version of bullying, I guess…As much as gays are bullied, Christians are so there you are…Most of the time, it isn't Christians doing the bullying…That is what they believe but think about it…They aren't usually at the same place at the same time…If using words is the same as bullying, then we are all being bullied and we are all bullies, if that is what you're saying, including you..But this isn't the same thing. These kids are innocent and Nazis are not…How can you compare a Nazi to an innocent child, not even thinking about religion. It is apparent that you sir have not read the bible. Yeah right, a Christian doesn't read the Bible but a pagan does, really???You think??? Smoke a lot of crack???
Martha Camejo I think you guys must be smoking some crack if you think that you read the Bible more than a Christian does….Right, perhaps when you wake up from your drug induced stupor and stop hallucinating, you'll realize what a total load of bull crap that is…
Martha Camejo I think you guys must be smoking some crack if you think that you read the Bible more than a Christian does….Right, perhaps when you wake up from your drug induced stupor and stop hallucinating, you'll realize what a total load of bull crap that is…
Kelly Jackson … I am not a pagan… but neither are you a Christian. Crack?… Really?? Do you believe that people should own slaves?… do you believe that non virgin women should be stoned??… do you eat shellfish??? If not, then you, too believe much of the bible to be untrue… if you do, I suggest you get counceling. It is you who have apparently not read the bible.
Kelly Jackson Oh, and I would like to take back that comment about comparing Christianity to the Nazis… You're right Kelly. The Nazi's were only around for a dozen years or so, and got their asses handed to them by the allies… whereas Christianity has a long, righ history of rape, murder, torture, slavery, genocide, bigotry, not to mention the rampant kid touching presently occurring in the church. But it's amazing how you can see yourself as a victim…. How delusional the mind of a religious fundamentalist. Who is trying to take away christian rights?… except their twisted sense of entitlement when they feel that they can pick and choose pieces from the bible to enact a bigoted, self righteous indignation. I pity your children, for you are mentally subjugating them, and robbing them of their ability to think.
Kelly Jackson Oh, and I would like to take back that comment about comparing Christianity to the Nazis… You're right Kelly. The Nazi's were only around for a dozen years or so, and got their asses handed to them by the allies… whereas Christianity has a long, righ history of rape, murder, torture, slavery, genocide, bigotry, not to mention the rampant kid touching presently occurring in the church. But it's amazing how you can see yourself as a victim…. How delusional the mind of a religious fundamentalist. Who is trying to take away christian rights?… except their twisted sense of entitlement when they feel that they can pick and choose pieces from the bible to enact a bigoted, self righteous indignation. I pity your children, for you are mentally subjugating them, and robbing them of their ability to think.
Kelly Jackson i'm pagan and i've read more of the bible then some of my christian friends.
I do believe if they could burn us at the stake again they would:) Ide like to see proof that all these rules are what God wanted. Oh wait there is no proof there is a God and if there is a 1% chance I am wrong I am pretty certain all these organized religions with mass amounts of wealth and spewing hate was NOT his plan. Love how if you are not a Christian you must be smoking crack. lmao. Do I even need to post how many dirty deeds done by so many so called Christians? Oh wait I dont have that kind of time on my hands:)
Kelly Jackson i didn't say i read the bible more. i said i have read more of it. maybe you should lay off the crack and read what people say before trying to ( and trying being the operative word) insult people. just sayin.
Kelly Jackson you are not making any sense and need to quite lying to your self ma'am. you rhetoric is that of some one that watches Faux News way to much, talking to you would be like talking to brick wall.
and dont subject people to what you believe, such as sin. thats all on you and you should keep it to yourself.
Kelly Jackson "Smoke a lot of crack?" I guess your Christian peaceful "demeanor" is going up in smoke? Was it a charade?
Well, if a person says he's a Christian, depending on a warped definition of "Christian" that you and they may have, the definition of "pagan" is also relative. Perhaps we need some clear definitions spelled out before we go on, because clearly we are not on the same page…I never said that I had a peaceful demeaner. I do not go around saying that I am so tolerant , Anthony Baptiste as you have all the while calling everyone idiots. Rochelle Sprague, lay off the crack, seriously…No Tony, just like a liberal, confusing saying that someone is hallucinating from drug use is as hateful as calling someone an "idiot", you also should lay off the liberal koolaid. Well, Rochelle, if you knew what you were talking about perhaps, we could agree on something…I don't watch Fox news, they all lie for ratings and for steering an agenda…I just don't tolerate the bull@#$%. That is what I am intolerant of…Tony you are so full of it and really think that you have it all figured out…
Martha Camejo Well, I can play that tune also, you talk like you watch MSN too much and the other networks…you keep referencing your herd…you need to learn to think for yourself…
actually, i don't watch the news at all. all the news does is give slanted view points. either right slanted on fox news, or left slanted on msnbc. i gather information from both sides, and think for myself from there. thinking for myself is something that as a pagan, i am allowed( and encouraged) to do.
for the conservative atheist – while I may disagree with your view, do you think it is appropriate for the kids at a journalism conference, on a speech about bullying, to be subjected to this? This man should be jailed, not to silence his speech, but to save the country from grotesque anti-American scumbags.
if they have done any research on Savage they should have realized this is what to expect. teens are not stupid they shouldn't cover their eyes and ears they should look and listen and open their hearts to what is being said. to say "lallalal go away" isnt how life works. and all he said was bullshit. people say it all the time and if they are old enough to read the bible that talks about rape, murder, incest, and the supposed killing of thousands of people by their god, surely a little curse word(that was not directed at them) wouldn't hurt.
This is just wrong in so many ways. I'm so proud to see fellow Christians not stick around to be bullied further by this jerk. Shame on the people left in the room applauding this guy's intolerance.
It's been a couple days now, and still no one has answered my question about what Dan Savage said about the Bible that is factually untrue. Perhaps that's because "Faux News" addicts have been watching O'Reilly and Hannity so long they no longer understand the concept of "fact".
I would not make a general comment here because the comments will be cross posted, and I avoid flame wars wherever possible. I also think you (Jim) need to contemplate the difference between "fact" and "truth".
In general, that's true, but I'm talking about very specific biblical texts, the same texts to which Dan Savage alluded in his talk. To wit …
+ The Bible does condone — does not promote, but does condone — slavery. Paul did not advise Onesimus to run away. (He could have suffered the same fate as Spartacus, if he had.) But neither did he advise Philemon to set Onesimus free … something that might be reasonably expected if Paul really were against slavery.
+ The Bible does advocate for a secondary position for women.
+ The Bible does inveigh against homosexuality, again in both Testaments. Etc., etc., etc. … No point in multiplying examples.
Now, the biblical text contains numerous instances of all these things, plus other instances that Dan Savage pointed out. To allege that it does not, or to allege biblical ignorance on the part of Dan Savage (I just heard a woman "challenge" Savage to read the Bible … completely overlooking the fact that Savage HAS read it … where does she think he got his critique?) … to allege either is simply whistling-past-the-graveyard-at-midnight. There is a perfectly good and understandable reason why the Bible takes these positions: it was written (the NT, anyway) in the FIRST century, not the TWENTY-first. So issues like slavery, the status of women, homosexuality, etc., were not as clear-cut to them as they are to us. (What moral / ethical issues will be clear cut to people 2K years from now that are ambiguous to us? Not eating the flesh of animals? Who knows?) But the text is there to be read: women should be silent and "in subjection" to men, homoerotic activity incurs abandonment by God, slaves should return to masters and subject themselves to their masters' discipline, etc. You can "hermeneut" your way around these texts, but they are there, and the fact that they have to be "hermeneuted" around is itself prima facie evidence that we find them … inconvenient.
Besides which … Christianity, like Judaism and Islam, is a historically based faith. I.e., the FACTS of history have a critical, in some cases, make or break, bearing on the TRUTH being promulgated. (E.g., St. Paul's "If Christ be not raised [from the dead], then our preaching is in vain".) So you can't separate fact from truth … unlike, say, Hinduism, which is almost entirely parable- and metaphor-based, e.g., nobody really believes that the great battle scene in the Upanishads happened in the same sense as, say, Picketts Charge.
In any case, I think Savage's larger point was … OK, we ignore the Bible's condoning of slavery. Good for us! So … why not similarly, and for identical reasons, ignore biblical injunctions of homosexuality and the secondary status of women? There is certainly no reason — within the biblical text itself — to ignore the one and to continue to give the other weight. Without going into detail, because I don't have room, I would argue that the reason for the double standard is not in the Bible, but in us, in how far we have evolved ethically, and how far our definition of "family" has (so far!) extended.
It's been a couple days now, and still no one has answered my question about what Dan Savage said about the Bible that is factually untrue. Perhaps that's because "Faux News" addicts have been watching O'Reilly and Hannity so long they no longer understand the concept of "fact".
I love it when people get offended. the headline makes this out to be much worse than it actually is. plus these are journalism students, they need to be able to handle listening to things they don't necessarily agree with and/or offends them. looks to me that he was talking to the ones that take random passages from the bible literally and use them against groups of people, in this case gays. Bible should not be taken literally, if you argue that it should be than I will counter with passages saying rape, incest, and brutal baby killing is appropriate.
Both sides are practicing their Constitutional rights. The right to speak and the right to not have to listen. Let's get it on. We're long overdue for the third American civil war as it is. 1776, 1861, . . . 2012?
Funny how at an anti bully convention a speaker can single out a specific group of people and bully them. He certainly was a great example of how not to act if you are accepting people as they are.
I don't know what has me more concerned; the content of the speech by Dan Savage to a group of teenagers (any speech like this against gays in schools or school related programs would be halted immediately) or the large number of teens that actually applaud Savage over the terrible things he said about the bible (which he omits key scripture and doesn't understand the relevancy of the scripture he selected). His language is inappropriate and he is bullying others. I guess he only stands up for gay teens all others are allowed to be bullied (especially by Savage).
if they have done any research on Savage they should have realized this is what to expect. teens are not stupid they shouldn't cover their eyes and ears they should look and listen and open their hearts to what is being said. to say "lallalal go away" isnt how life works. and all he said was bullshit. people say it all the time and if they are old enough to read the bible that talks about rape, murder, incest, and the supposed killing of thousands of people by their god, surely a little curse word(that was not directed at them) wouldn't hurt.
As a young Christian woman I want to apologize for any acts of hate or discrimination that has been shown to Dan Savage and any other homosexual or nonbeliever who has not yet come to know our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. He is not an angry nor unforgiving God and the fact that some Christians portray him to be so through their acts of unkindness and hatefulness breaks my heart. Though it is our job as Christians to teach and live out the word of God it's not our place to judge and make others feel beneath us because we toow are sinners. Its through his love and compassion that he has saved us so why should we got about this issue any other way. All I can do is pray for the souls of Dan Savage, others struggling with homosexuality and the common sinner including my brothers and sisters in Christ who may have gone about this battle the wrong way. There is only one that is forever perfect and His name is Jesus Christ. WWJD?
Like to see this guy say these same comments about the Quran and The Hadith teachings on Homosexuality in a predominant Moslem country or say in Dearborn Michigan!
Do ya think the crowd would do MORE than just walk out of His diatribe? Oh Yea!
I'm a conservative agnostic and this guy was an embarrassment..and an obvious unbalanced asshole.
Get a clue mister.
When you are giving students an anti-bullying lecture on how to deal with bullies..you shouldn't act like one.
If he uses a "homophobic" term like "pansy assed," does that mean that he's self-loathing, or does he abuse his "partner" with that term? (Which one is the submissive "pansy-assed" one in that relationship?)
Here is the thing. Dan Savage is trying to justify the way he lives through "social justice." However, we know that he questions the living a homosexual life because of the pride of life that is within him. If he really wanted to prove a point, then he should have made this an academic debate. The precepts of scripture tells us that homosexuality is an abomination. We are suppose to "Agape" them and not support their "Eros" ways according to Romans 12. If I were in that place, then I would walk away just like that lady and a few others. He has substituted the Absolute Truth for Relative Truths. I will take my Yeshua Ha'Mashiach any day over these type of people. Amen!
obama makes me sick. Plays right into the hands of the homosexuals. I wonder who wrote that speech for him? I'm getting sick of all this bullying crap. I WAS bullied as a child for something I could not actually change. I was ridiculed and even beat up and taken-advantage of. no president or group came to my rescue. boy, the gays have it made don't they! they have the president pushing their agenda down our throats now too.
It seems to be the same thinking as the pro choice movement. If you dont agree with them youre automatically labelled as a hostile pro life enemy. There never seems to be any moderation in their thinking. Its all or nothing and anything quoted is usually out of context. Good for those students who walked out. Apparently the speaker felt it was perfectly okay to ridicule and intimidate all in response to actions of some.
What a nut….
what a bully… hes a hypocrite
Leave the country then Neanderthal. The future belongs to the reasonable, intellectual, and rational.
yes, we can only hope they leave huh!
Disgraceful to try and be a theologian, incorrectly sharing and influencing students in a forum that got so off topic. As a former high school educator and member of both NSPA and JEA I'm deeply concerned they would offer this as "training" for future journalists. You don't leave your convictions at the schoolhouse or the newsroom door in order to accommodate or to be tolerant to others. To say all of those who believe in the Bible believe in beating homosexuals is like saying all homosexuals transmit AIDS and blah, blah, blah. This blanket of stereotypes further incites bullying of Christians–back to the coliseum! Ah, but we are so enlightened!