May 10, 2012
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It’s the story of David versus Goliath.
“David” is the small Alabama town of Sylvania, population 1,800. “Goliath” is the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation.
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The Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter to the town demanding that they remove Bible verses that were posted on four welcome signs. They said the signs were unconstitutional.
“Sylvania Welcomes You,” the signs read. “Ephesians 4:5 – One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.”
“The Sylvania ‘welcome’ signs are not welcoming,” wrote FFRF attorney Patrick Elliott. “They affiliate the government with one religion, Christianity, and exclude others.”
“No court would uphold this blatant violation of the Constitution,” read his letter to television station WAAY. “Local governments have no place in making position statements on such matters.”
Mayor Mitchell Dendy originally had the signs removed two weeks ago. However, he resigned due to an unrelated matter. The acting mayor and city council decided the signs needed to be reposted.
“We’re putting the signs back up and we’ll see what happens,” acting mayor Max Turner told Fox News.”If we don’t stand up for something, it won’t be long before we’ll have to go to the woods to have church.”
Turner said it’s time to draw a line in the sand and fight back against the FFRF.
“I had itchy feet to start with,” he said. “But we’re ready to have it. I’m not afraid to take a stand. We as Christians have got to stand up regardless of what the world might say about us.”
The 80-year-old acting mayor said to the best of his knowledge there are no atheists living in Sylvania and he said dozens of citizens are supporting their decision.
“We as Christians should stand up for what we believe in as much as them people stand up for what they believe in,” he said, noting that he was prepared to “go down trying to defeat the Devil.”
FOX News Talk
Overall the comments have been positive and good and even a few of the Anti-Chrisitans made a few good points. Spent a little time last night messaging with some Atheists and Agnostics in Iran. I think that the the Anti-Christian crowd should be thankful to live in a free society even if they want to tell the rest of US what to think. according to the Atheists in Iran, they have to be extremely careful or they could be hung or shot. The courts in the US recognize Atheism as a form of religious belief, so is it legal to try to force you religious belief on the public at large. Is it legal for communities to pass ordinances making it illegal to have prayer or bible study in your home? How about the city of San Francisco passing ordinances that are blatantly Anti-Semetic? Christians are not perfect and make mistakes, but do Atheist have a corner on righteousness? Joseph Stalin was a an Atheist and used his intellect to determine that 46 million people need to be exterminated from the earth for the good of the Soviet Union. There some Atheist who subscribe to the 'Useless Eater Theory' that the population needs to be reduced to 10% and be comprised of masters and slaves. That is one the underground reasoning of the Planned Parenthood originators who were the Atheist intellectuals of their time who had great influence on the ideas f the National Socialists in Germany. I could go on and on about the Pandora's box of eliminating Christian Morality from the US. But we do live in this Obama Thug Nation of Non-Christian entitlement and thuggishness.
Wow it has become apparent that some of these Atheist believe their IQ level and intellectuality makes the minor Gods over the rest of US poor simple folk. Kind of the way the Nazis justified murdering millions and the Communist following suit late. As a Christian I know we are not perfect but worry that the Perfect Intellectual Atheist may decide to rid the planet of us primitives to make their society the dominant 'PEACEFUL' one. After all we Christians are just more 'Useless Eaters', right?
you don't have to an atheist to be offended bu Bible verses. I too consider it an invasion of my personal choice..Im offended by it, I am a believer in a higher power whom is choose to call God, not the God of the Bible, I feel like it being shoved down my throat without having a choice.
the constitution protect freedom OF religion, it says nothing about freedom from religion.
That Wisconsin group is doing the same here in RI – trying to ban a veterans memorial. Won't happen here – people will really fight them. What are they doing? Scouring the country? Maybe they need to get jobs.
You have to ask who is really behind the Wisconsin group and why?
Eric, I never met Hitler either but believe all I read about him..I believe in Jesus Christ son of God , I couldn't get through this awful world without some Faith
this is where we are today…we have to fight to keep our religious rights, our flags, our constitution, our right to pick our health care….and we cannot even keep a standard light bulb…did you ever think that this is where america would be today? I am sure the germans asked themselves the same thing, in the 1940's.
Love this Welcome sign…. Kudos to Alabama! Love it…..
Love this Welcome Sign!!!!!!
Whether you believe in God, or Buddha, or Allah, or nothing at all, why should it offend anyone if you choose to display those symbols of faith? If you have a problem, don't look. On another note, wouldn't removing the things that these people choose to display be a violation of their freedom of religion?
It's one thing if it is a private sign, paid for by private citizens. They would have nothing to say about it then, and this article would be correct and the people would have every right to display it, and I for one would encourage them. HOWEVER…
It's a sign paid for by the government of the town, a government that represents more than just Christians. It's alienating."One Lord, one faith, one baptism," is a quote that is clearly meant to deny the validity of any other view point and to establish that town as a singularly Christan town. THAT is unconstitutional.
I don't think the Christians in that town would appreciate it if I put up an enormous star and crescent next to that sign, and would probably take it to court to have it taken down.
I don't think the Christians in that town would appreciate it if I put up an enormous star and crescent next to that sign, and would probably take it to court to have it taken down.
It is not unconstitutional. Show me the clause that you think it violates!!! Nobody in the town us complaining. Why does anyone care if they do not live in the town? If you want to put up your religious icon, of course they would take down since it reflects NONE of the sentiments of the residents. Get a life and get a copy of the Constitution and read it Sean is right on and you two are simply parroting hype you have heard. It is sad that so many Americans are so cowardly and bored to support such clearly wrong.
everyone knows this is a never-ending battle, right? "This offends me" "Well this offends me" It never stops. Christians….be a good person, and don't judge others. Atheists…be a good person and don't judge others. Whether you believe in God or not, there are much bigger things to worry about these days, so if something offends you, how about you think how much this is actually going to affect your everyday life, because chances are it isn't going to do anything except annoy you a little bit.I don't necessarily believe in god, but even I can recognize the fact that it's just a damn sign.
that's awesome that they are standing up for something
As usual, everyone supporting the lunatic minority has never read the actual Constitution of the United States. The sign is breaking no law, nor is it in violation of anyone's Constitutional Rights. When you do decide to read the Constitution, if you find it difficult, I would recommend going back to elementary school.
I can understand a non-Christian being annoyed by this sign. But how exactly does it violate the First Amendment?
The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". So… what law has Congress passed that is under discussion here?
do we care mind you'r business not mine you do your thing ill do mine and things will go on I don't care what someone does its no one business but there own god bless you all and to H*)) with you all you pick.
we all got to live this is not as the wourd turn or some thing like that stop the drama get in your own life and out of some ones elses.
For those who are Driving by and don't want to read the sign , just Close Your Eyes and step on the Gas….LOL.
I like the sign. why would this town have to fight to keep those words on their sign? Iam a bit confused. IF GOD STANDS FOR US WHO CAN STAND AGAINST US! pray for peace for those who want it taken down.My vote in Nevada leave the sign up! GOD BLESS
+1 for Sylvania! This is ridiculous. The atheist in this great nation are trying to remove God from everything. Sorry, not going to happen. Over 70% of the population in America is Christian. You really want to stir that pot?
I think it's a good idea for these small atheist groups to cool their jets. I can see it getting very ugly if they don't…
More than the first amendment or anything else, the city's breaking a rule of human existence, really. Don't be an ass by excluding others. Fuck, not even all Christians believe in baptism. I really don't even get the point of stuff like this. I don't run around telling people "Welcome to my town- God doesn't exist in the traditional sense, or any sense, really." That's annoying.
With that being said, the atheist group needs to focus their time and energy on more important instances of church and state getting too close for comfort. Picking on a town with not even 2,000 people? They could easily find something more important to do.
This is the silliest thing I have heard of. The sign says, "Sylvania Welcomes you." It doesn't say Welcome if you are a Baptist or a Methodist or a Jew. It says Says, Sylvania Welcomes YOU." That is what it means. The scripture simply exhibits the mindset of the population of the little town.
I just shake my head!
This is the silliest thing I have heard of. The sign says, "Sylvania Welcomes you." It doesn't say Welcome if you are a Baptist or a Methodist or a Jew. It says Says, Sylvania Welcomes YOU." That is what it means. The scripture simply exhibits the mindset of the population of the little town.
Way to go Sylvania. I was born in Alabama, recently moved back to Alabama and so appreciate the fact that in the Southern States, also referred to as the Bible Belt, we have a foundation of strong Christian beliefs. However, I am very disappointed in myself for not standing up for my Lord and Savior against the Atheists, the FFRF, and people like Obama and his band of cronies. To my fellow brothers and sisters there is something we can do to take back our heritage, our country and our government. If the Welcome to Sylvania.
sign is so offensive or against the law, according to some, and they want a challenge on their hands let's give them one. We can let our voices be heard through our actions. America has gone to heck in a hand basket with the gays and same sex marriag, abortions and all the attacks against our beliefs and what this country was founded upon. We happen to have a President, if you claim him as such, that sold his soul for a vote when he made the announcement yesterday voicing his approval of same sex marriages. And if Obama would sell his own soul what do you think he would do to us as a people and a nation especially if it furthers his own corrupt agenda. It doesn't matter if you are black or white, Democrat or Republican. What really matters is will your vote further the present administrations cause to divide us as a Nation and deny that we are a Christian Nation. Only God can save us from the economic woes, the lack of jobs and the moral deterioration.
of our country. Take a look at where a big % of Obama's campaign funds have come from – Hollywood.
The very epicenter of moral decay. Stand up, be heard. We can all display welcome signs in our own yards and at our businesses and place our favorite Bible verse on the signs. Put bumper stickers on your cars and ads, if funds allow, in the newspapers. Now is not the time to rest on our laurels – now is the time to stand up.
Stand up for what is right. And a note on the elections. Please, please look at our candidates and judge them.
on what is important. Do they deny that we are a nation founded on Christian principles, do they promote.
social activities that is so against God and human nature that it actually turns your stomach and do they promote the murder of those that do not yet have a voice. STAND UP – FIGHT TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK. I intend to. Won't you join me. STAND UP, STAND FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!
I am glad the town is fighting back, this getting to be absurd.
I appreciate Mr. Gonzalez of this discussion having identified himself rather forcefully as a high Wiccan priest. This gives context to his remarks. Mr. Gonzalez, your problem is not with the Constitution or your perceived threat to your religious liberties, which as has been pointed out, was guaranteed to you by a decidedly evangelical Congress. Your rights are secure to you, and no evangelical will deny them to you, knowing our rights are at risk as well. Your problem lies in the fact that your religion is opposed to evangelicalism, and that because both doctrines are mutually exclusive of one another. Even you will agree that "No man can serve two masters." You have chosen yours, as I have chosen mine, and we both shall live with that choice for eternity.
Laird no my problem is not, and has never been, with the Constitution. My problem is with other's interpretation of it, and the real threat, not perceived, to my religious liberties. Again, as I stated before, when Congress attempts to outlaw your religion in any context, get back to me. It did attempt it with mine, and that was at the beginning of the last Republican administration. With religion being such a high topic during this election as well, you'll forgive me for being a bit concerned with the outcome. No offense, sir, but it was evangelicals who were pushing hardest for the passage of the legislation. That is absolute, undeniable fact, and is in direct conflict with your comments on the matter. I have no problem with anyone else's faith. In fact, I belong to a Unitarian Universalist congregation as well, and we live by the credo of respecting each person's choice on their path to spiritual truth. My problem is when others attempt to infringe on mine. It happened, and in the US Senate of all places. Never happened with atheism, hasn't even happened with Muslims. A bill was introduced to ban the practice of Wicca at all government-operated facilities. I had faith that the constitution would prevail should the measure have passed. But yes, that attempt did color my perception of evangelicals – not all of them, but many of them. And of course I am concerned that it could happen again, especially with society and religions now more polarized than ever.
Since when did the "practice of wicca" become a religion? I, like most people would never have even thought to consider that a "Religion". It's a "practice" like you said. A practice of selling your soul to the devil. Good luck with that.
Joe Gonzalez I am not addressing recent legislation. I am speaking to the original intent of the Constitution to preserve and protect the freedom of conscience and religion for all. As recent events clearly show, evangelicals have far more to fear from the current administration than do the members of your congregation. Various philosophical groups including Unitarians have always existed and flourished in America. But there was a time when we all had the freedom to discuss our points of view without fear of government intrusion or inhibition. That freedom is being taken from evangelicals. Ironically, when that freedom is removed from them, it will soon be removed for all.
Deb Shriner Come out of the dark ages, Wicca has been around as a religion since the 1950's, and is based on religions that have been around long before yours. You "practice" your religion just like I "practice" mine. It's a fairly common phrase, but thank you for nitpicking it. And no, it is not a practice of selling your soul to the devil, as we don't believe in a devil. That is a Christian invention of fear and guilt. Wicca is a very positive religion that honors both the male and female aspects of the divine – some believe as two separate deities and some believe as different aspects of the same deity. Try reading some factual books about it. A good education goes a long way.
Laird Dale Baldwin Sorry, you can't dance around it so easily. You clearly stated "and no evangelical will deny them to you", when in fact that is EXACTLY what was attempted, right here in America, a mere 13 years ago. Has the outlawing of the very practice of your religion ever been the subject of legislation? Sorry, but removing a bible verse from a public sign or taking prayers out of public schools don't count. You are still free to practice your religion in your home, at church, wear your cross in public, yada yada yada. None of that has been taken away from you. The only limits are that government funded institutions (public schools) cannot endorse religion unless they endorse all of them, and governments cannot use public money to show favoritism toward one religion over another. There is nothing for you to fear. When your religion becomes the subject of a nationwide legislative ban, come talk to me. Until then, I am finding it very hard to find sympathy. A favorite quote of mine: Saying it is a hardship being a Christian in America is like complaining the handicapped people get all the good parking spaces. It reeks of ignorance and self-absorption.
Joe Gonzalez I'm sorry you feel so threatened, but the threat is not from me or those of my point of view. You are battling your own inner demons, not a threat from the outside. And putting me down will not bring you peace. You will have to deal with yourself. Sorry.
Dan Young you seem to be missing a key point in the posts of everyone that tells you the 1st Amendment. That point being is the word the "state" which this word is being used to describe the highest governing body in the nation not any of the smaller individual governments. And before you tell me I am wrong I have history to back me up on how this term has been used. So feel free to do some critical thinking over this first then respond back to me.
This country was founded on religion and Americans just need speak out more about this. Thank you to the Major of Sylvania Alabama for being bold. We need more people like you. Besides if the citizens of Sylvania are supporting this, why does it matter.
SOLUTION: If people are worried about the verse appearing ona sign that MIGHT be paid for my tax dollars & posted on public land, then the solution is simple.
Buy the land right next to the sign & put up a sign with the verse on it. Pivate message on private land paid for with private money. I'll pitch in for that…if only to shut the pie-holes of the whiny, want to be offended, bigoted, hateful, Anti-Christian, non-theists.
And.. why don't non-theists attacks islam? Simple…they are both in league with the same diety.
If the christians would let the muslims get away with putting up a sign like this on public lands they would be all over it too.
Why don't people just shut up and mind their own damn business? All these phony "so called" politically correct SOB's are destroying our once great country. THIS is the "liberal" mindset of the last 20 years. And talk about arrogance! Look at the comments they make on stories while they are hiding behind their computer. They attack peoples body weight, looks, and anything personable about them as if they were gods. What trash people they are.
Unless and until a citizen of the town files a named complaint, these Wisconsin thugs have no legal standing.
Okay. If SCOTUS can imply, by their interpretation of the "Establishment" clause that the words "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion" to mean that Congress shall make laws to PROHIBIT the free exercise of religion, doesn't that seem to directly conflict with "…or prohibit the free exercise thereof…"? Is there a difference between placing a religious symbol or verse on a sign that may not even be on public property (or maybe it is), than if I dress up like Jesus Christ and hang out in front of the Town Hall?
Does somebody want to tell SCOTUS that the building they hold court in should be radically changed so that the religious symbols be removed. Shouldn't there be a problem with towns named "Saint Paul", or "San Francisco"? Doesn't government itself promote the religion of government?
Joe Gonzalez – if you "want to go based on history" there have been a LOT of unhealthy and evil things done by mankind thru the ages. America was founded anew! Our founding fathers created a NEW country and set the laws according to the U S Constitution. No laws from other Countries are enforceable ONLY OUR CONSTITUTION. No other "history" but ours applies! Polygamy – not legal; Utah was forced the end polygamy in order to become a State. Gay Marriage – not legal; no Government throughout the history of mankind has survived more than about 50-100 years after they accepted homosexuality as a norm. Our founding fathers knew that – didn't think it required a law to prohibit something so unhealthy (per the CDC homosexual life style cuts 20 YEARS OFF LIFE – NOT AN ATTACK, JUST FACT). Multiculturalism has destroyed EVERY country where it has been embraced! Why do you think the founding fathers REQUIRED immigrants to learn English, renounce their old country and to swear allegiance to the USA. Why do you think FDR would say in a public speech "if the immigrant has not learned English and integrated in OUR Country within five years, he should return to his native country! The ONLY history that counts? Is and should be that of the United States of America – period.
Oh, and regarding the Pentagram? One of my dearest friends is a Druid – I show him my cross, he shows me his stone circle – That's what America is all about! He has no problems with this Towns signs and neither should anyone else…
It is cases such as this, where it is clear the Christian rightwing really do believe that the government serves to promote, endorse, further their own religion. They really think that the government is just a propaganda arm of Christianity. That is all it really exists for, in fact. Of course, the government should and must be neutral when it comes to religion, and neither promote nor endorse any view. If a town in Vermont (the most secular state in America) had on its' entrance a sign that said, "there isn't a god", than that would be clearly wrong. In fact, no Christian conservative in here would disagree with me on that fact. This is clearly wrong, the government serves all.
It is strange that this mayor says he doesn't believe there are any atheists in this town. A town with 1800 people and not one atheist! That sounds like those Iranian leaders saying there are no gay people in Iran. I am sure that atheists make up only a tiny fraction of this town but it is statistically improbable that there are no atheists in a town of this size. In 2008, 11% of residents of Alabama stated they have no religious identification. Now, most of those people aren't atheists, I am sure. But, a number of them are in fact. The odds that there is not one atheist in this town is about the same odds there aren't one Christian fundamentalist in the most secular and least religious town in Vermont, of comparable size. The fact is, it was probably an atheist from this town who complained to FFRF. FFRF doens't have the time to stop and take pictures of every town sign.
Wow
They sent letters to all 151 Mississippi school superintendents as well. Our answer to that is for one person in the stands to lead off with the Lord's Prayer, and then the crowd joins in if they choose. Sue ALL of us, FFRF. Bring it!