Oct 26, 2011
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An Alabama school district has been accused of allowing prayers that invoke the name of Jesus during high school football games, according to a complaint filed by a national atheist organization.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation said the Lauderdale County school district has violated the First Amendment by allowing the prayers at Brooks High School.
School superintendent Bill Valentine confirmed to Fox News that he had received the complaint.
“We’ve referred that complaint to our attorney and we are in the process of reviewing it,” he said.
The complaint was lodged by a single resident who objected to the student-led prayer before high school football games played on school property.
The Times Daily newspaper identified the complainant as Jeremy Green. In an email to the newspaper, Green said he was taking a stand for the so-called “separation of church and state in an effort to protect the constitutional rights of the non-religious.”
“It is not the job of the public school system to endorse religion,” he wrote.
Valentine said that to his knowledge, no one has ever lodged a complaint with the school system about the prayers.
The Freedom from Religion Foundation filed a similar complaint against a school in Arab, AL. That school decided to end pregame prayers and instead offer a moment of silence.
Valentine said they haven’t made any decision about prayers for Friday night’s football game.
He said the complaint has generated lots of telephone calls – mostly in support of keeping the prayers. He added that most callers have been understanding and “seem to appreciate the quandary we find ourselves in.”
Lauderdale County has about 8,600 students enrolled in public schools and Valentine said the community has a very active religious community.
Among those is David McKelvey, pastor of the nearby First Baptist Church, Killen. He discussed the controversy during his Sunday sermon.
“It’s very sad,” McKelvey told Fox News. “I would think that any other prayer from another religion would not receive this kind of negativity.”
McKelvey said he’s attended football games when students deliver prayer and to his knowledge they have always been benign – mostly prayers for the players, the coaches, the referees and the fans.
“They are in the Christian context with the student ending the prayer in Jesus’ name,” he said.
The pastor called the complaint “unfortunate” but not surprising. Christianity, he said, is under attack.
“It’s going on all over the place,” he said. “You just hate for it to be coming to your doorstep.”
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12 Fundamental Christian's in the deep south United States are on the Jury of a man facing the death penalty for murdering another person with a knife. The perpetrator's DNA has been found on the victims clothes, on the knife and elsewhere at the scene of the crime. The victim's DNA is found on the knife and on the perpetrator's clothing. Essentially, this DNA evidence prove's beyond any reasonable doubt that the perpetrator is guilty of murder. Every single juror find's the man guilty. They elect to execute him for the crime.
Yet, when you show those same 12 Christian jurors how DNA science proves beyond ALL, doubt that human DNA is 98% related to the DNA of the Chimp and Gorilla, they absolutely refuse to believe this evidence! Yet they will kill someone with the same DNA technology…. Go figure..
Your really going with the the whole ape theory???? lol.. Ok so apes spontaneously happened and then we evolved from them, and that's easier to believe…What about EVERY other species of life on this planed and the intricate way in which it all works together. Uh, well I'm sticking to the higher power theory….And it's not in the plan for us to even think we're intelligent enough to figure out God's plan….So there will always be 2 sides..But you're really going with the ape theory???
Speaking of the death penalty,I know an innocent man who was put to death,a brutal death at that.He was completely innocent.He was mocked,beaten beyond recognition to where his flesh was torn back and his internal organs were hanging out,blood everywhere,and they spat upon his face and stuck a crown of thorns upon his head and forced it into his scalp.He had done nothing wrong.His name was Jesus Christ.Who killed Him?You did .Your sin.My sin.His blood was shed for you and me
I believe, based on a documentary about the use of DNA in crime forensics in the UK, that no person should ever be convicted, let alone executed, based SOLELY on DNA evidence. It is not full proof because of the way DNA in labs can be contaminated.
Tracy Hill- Modra You clearly do not have the slightest education on Evolution. Nowhere in Evolutionary Theory does it state apes spontaneously appeared, and if one did spontaneously appear that would actually DISPROVE Evolution. So stop talking about things for which you not the slightest about. I don't go to a mechanic and tell him how to fix my engine.
Tracy Hill- Modra You are a complete fucking moron… Only term to describe your lunacy. Don't talk of things which you small mind does not understand…
Mike Copeland: where did the very, very first molecule come from? If we are to trace back our "evolution" must get to a point in time where all matter came from. So, if we descended from apes, apes descended from something, that something from something else…and we keep this process going, eventually there was a starting point. What was that starting point? And no, the Big Bang is not a starting point because, where did the matter come from that allowed the Big Bang to occur?
God ceased to exist on the 24th November 1859…
As someone who went to HS in small town Alabama, I remember walking away from my (Teacher led) band's group prayer and not participating in other prayers (including one over the speaker before the game) and being treated quite differently for it. I love the logic that "no complaints" = no one is unhappy with what they are doing. It is easy to be a teenager or adult in the majority and say "everyone here likes it this way." Turns out teenagers don't like being social pariahs. Not all of them are (understandably) brave enough to speak out against an overwhelming majority. Especially one that can actually come to the conclusion that "Christianity is under attack" when someone complains that they are doing things that are illegal and have been for a long time. Perhaps every single student is completely happy with the status quo here, but you can't know that for sure. And seeing the reaction to this, I think it's even less likely an unhappy student will feel comfortable standing up for their own religious rights. The right to be free of the overwhelming influence of yours (over others) at a school sponsored event they are a participant of. I have no problem with prayer. It is your right to pray. But I don't believe for a second that you need a school's loud speaker to get God to listen. I wish there had been a Jeremy Green at one of my school's football games, so kudos to him.
Separation of church and state is a bedrock principle of our Constitution much like the principles of separation of powers and checks and balances. In the Constitution, the founders did not simply say in so many words that there should be separation of powers and checks and balances; rather, they actually separated the powers of government among three branches and established checks and balances. Similarly, they did not merely say there should be separation of church and state; rather, they actually separated them by (1) establishing a secular government on the power of the people (not a deity), (2) saying nothing to connect that government to god(s) or religion, (3) saying nothing to give that government power over matters of god(s) or religion, and (4), indeed, saying nothing substantive about god(s) or religion at all except in a provision precluding any religious test for public office. They later buttressed this separation with the First Amendment, which constrains the government from undertaking to establish religion or prohibit individuals from freely exercising their religions. The basic principle, thus, rests on much more than just the First Amendment.
That the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the text of the Constitution assumes much importance, it seems, to some who may have once labored under the misimpression it was there and, upon learning they were mistaken, reckon they’ve discovered a smoking gun solving a Constitutional mystery. To those familiar with the Constitution, the absence of the metaphor commonly used to name one of its principles is no more consequential than the absence of other phrases (e.g., Bill of Rights, separation of powers, checks and balances, fair trial, religious liberty) used to describe other undoubted Constitutional principles.
James Madison, who had a central role in drafting the Constitution and the First Amendment, confirmed that he understood them to “[s]trongly guard[]… the separation between Religion and Government.” Madison, Detached Memoranda (~1820). He made plain, too, that they guarded against more than just laws creating state sponsored churches or imposing a state religion. Mindful that even as new principles are proclaimed, old habits die hard and citizens and politicians could tend to entangle government and religion (e.g., “the appointment of chaplains to the two houses of Congress” and “for the army and navy” and “[r]eligious proclamations by the Executive recommending thanksgivings and fasts”), he considered the question whether these actions were “consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom” and responded: “In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the United States forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion.”.
It is important to distinguish between the "public square" and "government" and between "individual" and "government" speech about religion. The constitutional principle of separation of church and state does not purge religion from the public square–far from it. Indeed, the First Amendment's "free exercise" clause assures that each individual is free to exercise and express his or her religious views–publicly as well as privately. The Amendment constrains only the government not to promote or otherwise take steps toward establishment of religion. As government can only act through the individuals comprising its ranks, when those individuals are performing their official duties (e.g., public school teachers instructing students in class), they effectively are the government and thus should conduct themselves in accordance with the First Amendment's constraints on government. When acting in their individual capacities, they are free to exercise their religions as they please. If their right to free exercise of religion extended even to their discharge of their official responsibilities, however, the First Amendment constraints on government establishment of religion would be eviscerated. While figuring out whether someone is speaking for the government in any particular circumstance may sometimes be difficult, making the distinction is critical.
"Once there was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time is called the Dark Ages." – George Bernard Shaw.
I am the light of the world – Jesus Christ
Bear up, my child, bear up; Zeus who oversees and directs all things is still mighty in heaven.
Sophocles
Brahma is the great Creator,
Life a mystic drama;
Heaven, and Earth, and living Nature
Are but masks of Brahma.
Men have been creating gods for tens of thousands of years, the current batch is no more real than the last.
John Ballard: you might want to do a little more research because one of the reasons it was called the Dark Ages is because it was actually, visibly dark. Researchers have concluded that an increase in airborne particles (suspect from a meteor strike) caused the sky to become dark which, in turn, caused a catostrophic impact on the Earth. This has been documented by scientists evaluating dark layers in soil and tree rings. So, a major reason it was the Dark Ages has little to do with religion.
I am the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father, but by me.-Jesus Christ Son of God. John 14 v 6.
why cant I look at the comments instead of reading a small part of comments on the bottom of this page with the article covering up most of the page?
There are several reasons prayer in public schools or at public school events should not be permitted:
1) Legal
Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion….
According to the First Amendment Center, The US Supreme Court has ruled in five school prayer cases:
Engel v. Vitale, (1962)
Any kind of prayer, composed by public school districts, even nondenominational prayer, is unconstitutional government sponsorship of religion.
Abington Township School Dist v Schempp (1963).
The second so-called "school prayer" decision. But it was the more far-reaching — prohibiting school officials from organizing or leading prayers and devotional Bible reading in public schools. The Abington v. Schempp decision invalidated a devotional Bible-reading requirement in Pennsylvania; a case consolidated with it, Murray v. Curtlett, struck down a similar law in Maryland. Abington v. Schempp requires that teachers and administrators neither promote nor denigrate religion — a commitment to state neutrality that protects the religious freedom of students of all faiths and no faith.
Wallace v. Jaffree, (1985)
State's moment of silence at public school statute is unconstitutional where legislative record reveals that motivation for statute was the encouragement of prayer. Court majority silent on whether "pure" moment of silence scheme, with no bias in favor of prayer or any other mental process, would be constitutional.
Lee v. Weisman, (1992)
Unconstitutional for a school district to provide any clergy to perform nondenominational prayer at elementary or secondary school graduation. It involves government sponsorship of worship. Court majority was particularly concerned about psychological coercion to which children, as opposed to adults, would be subjected, by having prayers that may violate their beliefs recited at their graduation ceremonies.
Santa Fe v. Doe, (2000)
The Supreme Court held a school may not ask students to lead prayers over the public address system before football games. The Court found the situation in Santa Fe, TX, similar to the situation in the Lee v. Weisman case. Santa Fe's practice was not a matter of private student speech, but of students speaking on behalf of and at the request of school officials. This factor changed the situation from being one of true private student speech to school-sponsored and -endorsed speech. This case demonstrated that schools cannot use a proxy, such as outside clergy or even students, to engage in activities they are themselves forbidden from practicing.
2) Religious.
Is there a consensus by the religious and non-religious about to whom to pray, how to pray, etc. With respect to Christianity, Jesus reportedly said: “"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (Matt 6:5-6).
Is there a consensus with respect to what is “acceptable” prayer among the religious groups in America? The reiligious (and non-religious) diversity in America: http://religions.pewforum.org/reports.
3) Historical lessons.
Refer to 1) Bible Riots http://candst.tripod.com/boston3.htm and 2) School Prayer Has Always Been Divisive http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/school_prayer_has_always_been.htm as a start.
4) Validation of prayer.
What does prayer offer with respect to scientific inquiry, critical thinking, and problem solving – the things that actually do solve problems in this world?
Does common sense validate prayer? http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Does science validate prayer?
http://www.examiner.com/science-religion-in-houston/scientific-studies-on-the-effectiveness-of-intercessory-prayer
Am Heart J. 2006 Apr;151(4):934-42.
Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer.
Benson H, Dusek JA, Sherwood JB, Lam P, Bethea CF, Carpenter W, Levitsky S, Hill PC, Clem DW Jr, Jain MK, Drumel D, Kopecky SL, Mueller PS, Marek D, Rollins S, Hibberd PL.
Mind/Body Medical Institute, Department of Medicine, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA. hbenson@bidmc.harvard.edu
Comment in:
• Am Heart J. 2006 Oct;152(4):e39.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Oct;152(4):e33.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Oct;152(4):e31.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Sep;152(3):e25.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Apr;151(4):762-4.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Oct;152(4):e41-2.
• Am Heart J. 2006 Dec;152(6):e63.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.
METHODS: Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.
RESULTS: In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.
CONCLUSIONS: Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
Prayer may be helpful for some individuals, similar to meditation, etc., which is fine – that is a personal choice that we, as Americans, should respect. But prayer in public schools is a completely different issue. I do not wish for my children to be forced to pray, or be forced to be exposed to prayer, by anyone in a public school or at a public school sponsored event – prayer is a personal matter that should be left to families and their places of worship – not public schools.
Knowledge and action provide solutions and solve problems. Prayer may contribute to the acquisition of knowledge and motivation for some, but it is by no means a necessity. As far as our kids in school – they should be taught to value scientific inquiry and critical thinking, learn to respect life, and strive to do no harm and make a positive impact in all they do. Prayer is not necessary for these things that have helped, and continue to help, us all.
Finally, this matter is not one that James Madison intended to leave to a majority to decide – he, as well as a majority of the founding fathers, explicitly feared an oppressive majority developing in a democracy and forcing their views upon minorities, which is precisely why the First Amendment reads: “Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”.
(And for some perspectives on Jefferson’s and Madison’s thoughts on government sponsored prayer, please refer to “NO GOVERNMENT ‘INTERMEDDLING’ WITH RELIGION! Jefferson And Madison Opposed Government-Sponsored Prayer Proclamations” http://www.au.org/resources/history/old-docs/jefferson-and-madison-on.pdf as a start.)
For the reasons previously cited, and others, I believe public prayer should not be sponsored by any governmental agency in America, and it should definitely not be in our public schools or at public school sponsored events.
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect."
"Conscience is the most sacred of all property."
"We are teaching the world the great truth that Governments do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion Flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Government."
– James Madison.
Ron: nobody is forcing anyone to do anything…why are people so afraid of prayer. I have not seen any comment in the story that said "the school held a gun to the heads of the students until they all prayed to God". Come on, get real Ron.
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear. He who dwelleth in love, dwelleth in God, and God in him." – I John 4.
Seems to me like an awful lot of my fellow Christians are allowing themselves to be manipulated by the commentators at FOX, and letting rumors and innuendo fan their bigotry and fear into a really big bonfire. I do not think this is very constructive or helpful to the world, and, frankly, it's embarrassing to those Christians who are actually trying to follow the teachings of Jesus: "Love your neighbor, love your enemy, bless those who curse you, turn the other cheek, blessed are the peacemakers, forgive, be wise as serpents but gentle as doves…" If you're letting yourself get all riled up for Jesus, please stop. You're not helping his cause. "God bless the whole world. No exceptions."
Oh! And Jesus advised us to pray in secret, and not make a big show about prayer in the hopes that everyone can see us and see how wonderfully pious we are. No one can stop you for praying silently.
Change the "for" to "from"…
Good ole 'murica
Good ole 'murica