A Virginia lawmaker is calling on the Air Force to reverse a decision to remove a Latin reference to “God” from a logo after an atheist group complained.
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Rep. Randy Forbes, (R-VA), said the Air Force removed the logo several weeks ago from the Rapid Capabilities Office. The patch included a line written in Latin that read, “Doing God’s Work with Other People’s Money.”
But after the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers complained, Forbes said the line was rewritten in Latin to read, “Doing Miracles with Other People’s Money.”
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Forbes, along with a bi-partisan group of 35 lawmakers, sent a letter to Air Force Secretary Michael Donley and Air Force Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz expressing concern over the decision to remove a non-religious reference to God.
“It is most egregious,” Forbes told Fox News. “The Air Force is taking the tone that you can’t even use the word ‘God.’”
Forbes said his office contacted the Air Force and officials there confirmed that the logo had been changed after the atheist group complained.
A spokesman for the Air Force told Fox News they had received the letter and would investigate the claims.
Forbes said the removal of “God” is a “bridge too far in terms of the rights of men and women who serve in our services and their ability to express their faith.”
“But the significance of this is what the Air Force is saying with this move – that the word ‘God’ – whether it has any reference to faith or not, can’t be used in the Air Force,” Forbes said.
He said the incident is one of several in recent months that have caused him to wonder if the military is cleansing itself of religious references.
“It’s a very dangerous course to take,” he said.
“I am concerned that the RCO capitulated to pressure from an outside group that consistently seeks to remove references to God and faith in our military,” he said. ‘The RCO’s action to modify the logo sets a dangerous precedent that all references to God, regardless of context, must be removed from the military.”
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People atheism is NOT a religion. Religion is a belief system in the absence of facts. Atheism is a scientific understanding of the world based upon reason and evidence. Religion is primarily a belief in fairy tales intended to scare small children into adhering to another's code of conduct.
gotta love it when a less than .05% of the population tells the other 99.5% that they have it wrong. People's atheism is nothing but Marxist style gobbletygook. Like the Marxist regimes which claimed to be rooted in scientific reasoning the world of atheism offres nothing to mans
gotta love it when less than .05% of the population tells the other 99.5% that they have it wrong. The idea of a People's atheism is nothing but Marxist style gobbletygook. Like the Marxist regimes which claimed to be rooted in scientific reasoning the world of atheism offers nothing to man's soul and by it's denial of the spiritual world is designed to kill the human spirit. Better to believe in something that offers you comfort and solace than in nothing which offers only the coldness of the Void.
Larry Claypool Marxism is just an industrial-age rehash of Jesus's message of giving up material wealth for moral wealth. Jesus is an iron age rehash of the same message given by Buddha in the bronze age. The only thing separating the three is the cultural context the people were in and rebelling against. Buddha was in a Hindu culture and rebelled against the corruption inherent in the caste system. Jesus was in a Roman occupied Jewish culture and rebelled against the corruption in the priesthood and government. Marx was in a science and technology driven industrial culture and rebelled against the corruption of the industrial giants and sweatshops. It's all about empowering the lower classes against the wealthy by giving them soothing lies and getting them organized.
Larry Claypool Which God are we supposed to believe in? And when you do have to believe in one, how do we contact him? Where does he/she live? I have yet to see this sky wizard you speak of.
If he is all encompassing, why does he let children starve and die in third world nations? Is he too busy helping Americans and could care less about people in those nations? Does he just spend time helping the right people and let the wrong people die?
These are all valid questions I have yet to see answers to from anyone with a Bible in their hand.
Larry Claypool the percentage is higher than that.. but it's not a question of right or wrong. it's a) a question of different and b) EQUAL..
And I think the human 'spirit' predates judeo-christian religions..as do laws and morality.
jeez_I don't remembering specifying any particular relgion or belief sytem. my bitch is atheists trying to tell everyone else they have a lock on the truth re the universe at large and for their claim to have any science behind their boorish attacks on other peoples beliefs.
Larry Claypool You're statement is confusing but I assume you are saying that science rules?
Larry Claypool You're statement is confusing but I assume you are saying that science rules?
a atheist attack is no differnt than a evangelicals-nothing but vitriol
a atheist attack is no differnt than a evangelicals-nothing but vitriol
Larry Claypool I am not an atheist.. I just happen to believe in separtion of church and state
I am. "Christians" who are also Faux Ooze listeners and support people like Rick Sanctimonius and Eye of Newt Gangrene bring out the worst in me. But Larry's right as far as it goes, it's not fair to paint all Christians with the same brush as the Ku Kluxers.
Seriosly, when are we going to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?
We did. Jessica Alhquist did and had a school prayer banner removed. The Air Force decided it was in the interest to remove God. I think things are looking up now.
I think if you don't believe in God I feel sorry for you. I love God and Jesus and I also read the Bible and it tells you that when the time come you will be Judge so remember that you people that don't believe.
Which God are you believing in? Is it the right God? What about the Muslim across the street who believes in his God? Is that the right God? What about my Invisible Pink Unicorn? I believe in her so she is my God. Which one is the right one to believe in?
Come on Larry 99.5%? Not even close. Considering what people on these pages seem to not only believe in, but their belief that it gives them the right to shove their beliefs down other people's throats and make public policy while defaming non-believers, I'd much prefer the "coldness of the void," whatever that is. I have seen people I respect who also believe in the teachings of a person who may have lived over 2000 years ago named Jesus. I have also seen and heard from too many people who have used that set of beliefs set down in a tome called the Bible use it as a political instrument to beat others into the ground. The KKK and the Nazi Party regard themselves as Protestant-Christian organizations. Rick Perry, the Governor of Texas is particularly proud of two things. He defunded Planned Parenthood and his state has the highest number and quickest expedition of executions of any state in the U.S. Guilty or innocent he'll see they're done, in Jesus's name no doubt.
Don't forget Rick Perry and that family ranch scandal with the N word Head written on the rock at the entrance: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rick-perry-familys-hunting-camp-still-known-to-many-by-old-racially-charged-name/2011/10/01/gIQAOhY5DL_story.html?hpid=z1
Wow, there's a lot of juvenile comments here – atheists seem to be the worst offenders.
Juvenile in the sense of reason? Like I said earlier, debating theists is like arguing with Kindergartners while wearing a clown outfit. It's hard to get the point across when all you want to do is run around and spew your mouth off about nothingness and your imaginary sky wizard friend.
God, Guns, Guts. and Glory! That's what America is like it or leave!
I like it just as much as you. But which God are you endorsing? I'm unsure which one we need to like. There are so many. Can we make sure if that all Gods are included in your phrase?
I disagree and you know what I am not going any where. I will continue to stand for what is right, which is our government remaining neutral to this subject. If you don't like it then you leave.. There are many other Theocracies that you could go to. The USA is not a Theocracy though.
I am ashamed of the Air Force. One more way of the USA giving in to the 4% and not standing up for the rest of us that believe in God. It made me feel good to know that in the monument at DC that there are thanks to God and other Godly things. Ashame on the Post Office and schools for removing God from the halls, etc. America, Stand=up for your religious freedoms and thanks God for all good things in our lives (like "heros" that serve our Country).
No one is taking away YOUR religious freedom.. or anyone else's. You've lost nothing. The GOVERNMENT cannot voice an opinion regarding religion ..it must remain neutral..
You still have church.. you can pray in school or work or home.. wear a cross. whatever YOU want to do. Only the government can't.
You should be happy about that.. and it's been the law for 230 years.
You and I pay the taxes to fund the Air Force. They put a reference to God in the motto. I don't think that's fair. I think there needs to be some verses from Qur'an in there as well. Will you let me and other Muslims have our say? Or is it because they are a minority that they don't have the ability to have their say just like you have your say with endorsing God?
You can't have it one way (what you see fit), and not the other way (fair to everyone). Religion has no place by endorsement of publicly funded taxpayer money. It violates the first amendment of the Bill of Rights.
David Marcantonio The word God represents the totality of all, and does not name any one specific religion (organized). This includes Muslims, who have a God by a different name but a God none the less. The word God does not in any way operate within any organized religion. Now tell me how "theories" involving science has explained how the entire universe was created. Science has not and never will establish a concrete "theory" in how the universe was ever created unlike what has been noted in several of your postings. Theories are just that "a possibility" much like God is a possibility yet noted in the Dead Sea Scrolls….which science cannot dispute.
Rhonie Messner There's more basis in scientific theories than there are for theories about God. Science can back up their claims with physical proof. Religion backs up their claims with a feeling of the spirit. How does that make any sense?
Can you prove your God exists?
Rhonie Messner "God represents the totality of it all' Doesn't that exclude atheists and other who do not refer to their 'deities' as god ? Don't they enjoy the same rights ?
The Air Force Rapid Capabilities Office, located in Washington, D.C., reports directly to a Board of Directors chaired by the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology, and logistics. Board members also include the secretary of the Air Force, the Air Force chief of staff, and the assistant secretary of the Air Force (acquisition). The office responds to Combat Air Force and combatant command requirements.
The logo represents everyone in the office, who in turn represent everyone in the Air Force, who in turn represent America as a branch of it's military. What does it say to the rest of the world when the people in command of such authority say that they are doing "Opus Dei (The Work of God)"? How can that not be a religious statement?
I think they (the religious folks on here) believe the government is about to close all churches in this nation and go towards a socialistic form of governing.
So in essence our cival liberties can be throwen away in order to appease a few; it is a sad day when a country that is founded on religious tolerence has no tolerence for it's majority, but all accomidation is given to a select few… May God have mercy upon us.
Where were civil liberties thrown away? Did they take away your church? Enlighten us.
David Marcantonio
Michaele Cormier
By having us remove our symbols of faith the name God that is where our cival liberties are taken away
Michaele Cormier Was the reference to God used in a private instance? Is the Air Force a privately funded institution? I think people like me and other non-denominational taxpayers the use of God shows favoritism towards one belief. By not showing religious/belief tolerance, you create a totalitarian society. That's not what we're about. We're a melting pot of beliefs and tolerance. To be intolerant is immature and selfish.
Yes but seeing how the use of God is supposed to cover Allah as well and it's a case of freedom of speech and expression… as for tolorence the atheists aren't too tolorant of the believers now are they?
Michaele Cormier Atheists are intolerant under what circumstances ? Online ? On facebook pages ? There are some who are intolerant.. there are some who have the patience of Job..they are individuals.. Just as christians are.. I find (some of) them to be extremely intolerant – to the point of bullying and threats of bodily harm. You are judging an entire group over specific instances.. which I am sure you wouldn't appreciate if it were the other way around ..
(them = christians in the bulling comment)
I have seen prayer taken out of school ( a moment of silence ) I have seen any mention of God taken out of the public… as for "them = Christians doing the bullieing comment " how exsactly was I bullieing someone by stating an opionion? Have I raised arms against those who disagree with me? Have I threatened anyone with a lawsuite and or bodily harm? So which Christians are you referring too?
Michaele Cormier There was a girl in Rhode Island (I love the irony) who had a court case to remove a prayer from a school wall. The post/twitter/etc to her were past the point of hate crime and bullying. She needed police escort and people were arrested for the harrassment. The people doing the bullying (and using language I won't repeat) were all 'christians'. Threatening her life ..literally.
The school/government has to remain neutral..NOT preach god, not preach there is no god.. neutral.
And no.. NOT you. i was speaking quite generally but can get specific info
Eric Goberman I apologize for the terror this girl went through ( though I was not involved in anyway) furthermore are we sure that these people threatening bodiely harm and using course language are truly Christians? By their actions I would say no… and on a personal note I would like to see that specific info… As for our school being neutral and not preaching God, what of the evolution that is being taught in schools? Is that not saying that their is no God?
Michaele Cormier I would say they aren't either . but THEY say they are. Mostly catholic, as a matter of fact. And, please, don't take this personally or as an insult.. look up the term "no true scotsman".. It's a little snarky but kinda true. No one with morals would do these things.. and they have none.. but they identify as christians and they are doing it in defence of their religion.
Look up Jessica Ahlquist.. you can find the comments
is it any different from, say, the kkk. they certainly are NOT.. or westboro.. but THEY say they are. Of course, reasonable people write them off.. but it does give a bad name.
Eric Goberman I personialy wonder why the kkk, neonazies, or the white supremist are not charged as a terrorist organization; they certainately qualify as one… as for the cathalics that poor misguided religion wasn't even encouraged to read the Bible for themselves until the late 1970's and as they pledge their allegance to the church, God, and "holy" rome first, can we really take them seriously?
Michaele Cormier Freedom of speech. cuts both ways !! Don't get me started on them. I have no love of organized religion in the first place. Very few encourage personal excellence..only deference to the bible.. also not on the top of my 'good; list. Morality speaks for itself. Belief in god .. personal and shouldn't have to be worn on the sleeve or the chest.
Michaele Cormier Freedom of speech. cuts both ways !! Don't get me started on them. I have no love of organized religion in the first place. Very few encourage personal excellence..only deference to the bible.. also not on the top of my 'good; list. Morality speaks for itself. Belief in god .. personal and shouldn't have to be worn on the sleeve or the chest.
Eric Goberman I am all for freedom of speach and expression of it; I personaly enjoy wearing my religion on my sleeve; I don't tell people that they are going to hell because of their beliefs, I am not the judge… as for religion not encouraging personal excellence, you are wrong. The Bible teaches us ( if you study it ) to get along with others ( tolorence ), help those in need ( charity ), don't lie, steal, cheat, or basicly act a fool ( lol ) those are lessons when applied encourage the individual to personal excellence; unless I have the deffinition of the term wrong…
Michaele Cormier It has a lot killing and stoning and other 'fun' things. One can have the highest morality and impeccable integrity and never have looked at a bible..
We can have this conversation in messages..and not have to search the thread for the posts, if you prefer ..
Eric Goberman I would love too I don't get to debate much lol do you need my email
Michaele Cormier check your friend requests
I'm still trying to figure out "which" religion was being established in the article in reference to a military patch. Each military branch offers multiple churches and buildings for anyone…..no religion has ever no will ever be forced on any military establishment. I am however, still awaiting for that one Atheist to show a me a law that congress has passed that enforced a specific religion upon anyone…..the problem is they can't because there has been none. Placing the word "God" on a military patch was NOT conducted under a law passed by congress……….several military awards have the word "God" on them….no matter the language. Funny though how the word "God" was replaced with the word "miracles" can't have one without the other.
Rhonie Messner ANY religion that prays to God. not all do.
Making accommodation for ALL religions is, by definition, remaining neutral.
The military is a branch of the govt. It does NOT have to be a "law".. it simply needs to give the appearance of an endorsement or favoritism.
For those that compare the attacks on religion from our government and call it a step towards fascism, may I point out these two pieces of information:
Gott Mit Uns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns.
Hitler's Christianity: http://nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm.
For the record, when you compare Obama to Hitler, your comparing him to a man who used Christianity as his reason for his atrocities against mankind.
And just to be fair, when you say "well Bush did this", you are are admitting Obama is the same jackass he was. And for those that bring hitler into any conversation that "proves" the other side is bad, you are the EXACT person you are trying to educate.
Can we please stop with the ridiculous assertion that this country was "founded on Christianity". It was founded on principles of freedom, democracy, and tolerance. All the things that religion does not stand for (as demonstrated very well by many of the posters here). Just because a majority were Christian, or that some founding fathers were or weren't Christian is irrelevant. They also wore powdered wigs but no one is claiming the country was founded on that.
I believe in conservative ideas like smaller government, free markets, and responsibility. Those things may be eroded by terrible politicians who are bought and paid for by special interests, and we need to put a stop to that. Religion is a completely separate issue. That's eroding worldwide simply because people, when exposed to a free flow of information and reason, question the foundation of religion and realize it has none. The ideal society is a Secular Capitalist Republic. What we have now is some kind of bizarre Corporatist Theocratic Republic.
P.S. The "Many of the posters here" was in reference to the discussion on Fox News lol.
You sir, are owed a drink. That is if you drink.
You sir, are owed a drink. That is if you drink.
You go, John!
You go, John!
I've heard an interesting point that if Charles Darwin were around 100 years earlier, the founding fathers would have likely accepted evolution. But since there really were no scientific answers for a lot of the questions at the time, religion was the science of the day.
But since we facts and science to back up things, you're right, people start questioning the meaning of organized religious institutions.
If atheists don't believe in God, then why are they so offended when his name is brought up? Oh yea, I can pretty much say that they are of Satan, thus offended, and shaking in their boots when the Lords name is mentioned. World…going to hell in a hand basket, but thank you Jesus, that I will NOT be in that particular basket, but in my hot air balloon on the way to heaven. : – ) We live in a world where evil is good and good is evil, but I know where I am going when my Savior comes back!
Don't know what an atheist is, do you ?
Don't know what an atheist is, do you ?
Eric Goberman, nope I doubt it Eric.
The atheist, who has not the intelligence to create a speck of dust, would have us believe the beauty of our infinite universe was created without Conscious Intelligence.
The atheist is the one who is unconscious of his Creator, whose voice cannot penetrate the dark vacuum of empty space in his head; as sound cannot travel thru a vacuum.
That an atheist has neither the power nor intelligence to imagine or believe in a God who could both love and forgive him is unimaginable, unthinkable and unbelievable.
Since the atheist cannot see the song of a bird, or the fragrance of a rose, nor the taste of milk and honey, he would convince us such invisible pleasures do not exist.
Even light is invisible traveling thru empty space; even so the Light of the knowledge of God cannot be perceived as it passes thru the vacuum of a dark and empty mind.
Since the atheist cannot see electricity moving thru wires, he does not believe the light is shining over his head, and can prove it by shutting his eyes; that he is blind.
Since the atheist cannot see the air, he does not believe the jet he is flying in is carried on its wings, but rather by an imaginary fairy that he does not believe exists.
Since the atheist cannot see radio signals as they travel thru invisible air, he does not believe in the invisible music he hears that is traveling by invisible sound waves.
Since the atheist cannot see the Infinite Universe, nor infrared or ultraviolet light, nor the atom or a multitude of invisible sub-atomic particles, these also do not exist.
The atheist has the unique ability to talk on a phone with someone he cannot see thru an invisible connection he cannot believe using a brain the rest of us can’t see.
Michael, I follow the evidence. There is overwhelming evidence that birds, roses, milk, light, electricity, air, radio, infrared, UV, and subatomic particles exist. Not so for your God. Give me a test I can do to confirm or deny your God, and I'll do it.
So how could the overwhelming evidence of the beauty, diversity and grandeur of an infinte universe that goes on functioning (as all the plant and animal life on this planet) in such superb order after over 13 billion years not lead you into thinking and believing that there is an incredibly powerful and intellignt mind behind the Creation of it? If someone could prove to you thru expert medical tests that they were in fact immortal (that their body was not aging) would that be enough evidence to prove to you that God is real? Otherwise what could evidence or proof possibly look like?
It is my understanding that atheists don't believe in God–so how come it bothers them so bad for others of us to do so?
You can believe all you want. We're all pretty used to the fact that many Americans believe in an invisible man in the sky. But this is about government endorsement of a sectarian belief.
America was founded on Christian foundations.
http://thinkabouti.blogspot.com/
this country is going tofar taking god out of everything I sad a prayer and said the pleag to the flag I grue up just fine not the kids now putt GOD back were it was.
Cindy, with all due respect.. no one taking god out of anything. The government and the schools (part of the government) are not the place for god. At home, in your church, anywhere you want you are free to worship and pray as you see fit.. The government will protect your right to do so .. but it isn't and cannot endorse any religion.. that would impose on the rights of those who worship differently from you.
Eric Goberman that is the grate thing abought this country everyone can s defronsee thing
Cindy Stader sorry defronsee ?? i don't understand..
see difrontlee or things
Cindy Stader AH differently.. Got it. Yes, it is a good thing
For those who keep spoting off about no proof og GOD, well let me ask you the same question in the other direction, where is your proof he does not exist….i may be dead before I get a reply because I am hold my breath…lol.
I agree! The government is not the nation, and the government of the United States is not the same as the state and local governments. In adopting the First Amendment, the Founders clearly intended that there be no established religion at the national level, but they left the states free to have their own establishments. A primary reason for the adoption of the First Amendment establishment clause was the different establishments at the state level. Much like the stupidity of a few Muslims going to a private Catholic College and demanding that they receive a separate room for they're prayers …..and the "government" has to "think" about it…
The bully mentality by christians is hilarious. I thought jebuz zombie said to love everyone..including your enemies..or was that boo-duh? Us atheists are going to hell? Can I get gps directions to verify it actually exists? No? Then crawl back into your cave and pray…oh wait..that doesn't work. Silly sheep..waiting to be lead to the slaughter..or chased into hiding by logic and reason. Just remember..the flying spaghetti monster loves you more than thor does.
Thanks for posting, your own fb just proved that Atheism is in fact a religion that has a church, and a ministry. "church for atheist free-thinkers who are fed up with religions toxic influence in the world.
Feel free to check out our Wall here on Facebook where you can see posts from the Ministry as well as from our growing congregation". Now explain to me again why Atheism is NOT a religion?
No rituals, no fear tactics, no guilt…game, set, match.
SaintRandy PatronSaintofporn Wrong! Church and ministry on your fb and of course the load of dung on the other site. The United States Supreme Courts states that a "religion" does not need to include rituals again you failed. But then again most trolls do. Not posting to you any more because you are so not worth it.
"I shall fart in your general direction!" – French Taunter, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
For someone who spews a lot of BS about religion being a joke you sure have embraced it,atheism is a religion. Religion just means a belief system, does not mean GOD, CHRIST, JESUS, just means you believe in something whole hartedly and you believe in Atheism no doubt so you believe in a religion also and the highest court in the land even said its a religion. For someone who claims to be a non beliver in GOD or CHRIST you sure do fear them by the looks of your fb page, only people who deface someone elses faith or belief is someone who fears it.
All caps for your imaginary friend(s)?? I shall dub thee CAPtain America.
SaintRandy PatronSaintofporn well you must agree with what i said sence the only thing you commented on was my use of caps
Want me to comment on what you wrote?? "GOD or CHRIST you sure do fear them" .. finally a christian admits they are not the same. Bye bye trinity.
God cannot be proven or disproven, Randy. Why don't atheists ever understand that?
"For those who lack faith, no explanation is possible.
For those who have faith, no explanation is necessary."
Joseph Werner (sp?), author, "The Song of Bernadette"
Randy–and I never said you were going to hell!
Rhonie Messner – Ok atheism is a religion. Next.
Randy–as for bullying, who is it has to take every eensy-weensy reference to God to court? Or are they all afraid of something?
I run into a lot of prejudice against my religion, but I don't go around telling them that they believe in a spaghetti monster! That is pure bigotry!
I'm going to start a tax free atheist church.
Why don't you take the True Faith Test…all you have to do is drive around the block blindfolded (unable to see at all). Do you have enough faith to do it? Nope. hehehehehehe
Tina Loving They already have, I guess you are a behind the times a tad bit. Or is that the The nonprofit Freedom From Religion Foundation works to educate the public on matters relating to nontheism, and to promote the constitutional principle of separation between church and state…..and failed to tell you that Atheist have churches in every state of this nation. Sounds like the "do as I say, not as I do" theory with those that state Atheism is not a religion, yet they have an organized church …….ummmmm I wonder what an organized Atheist Church peaches from the pulpit? http://www.churchoffreethought.org/….is just one many. This is what they state, (I know this will bore because you already know this right?) "The North Texas Church of Freethought is a Fellowship of Unbelievers. We do what all the other churches do, but with one less god. Our aim is to offer atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, and freethinkers all the educational, inspirational, and social and emotional benefits of traditional faith-based churches. We do this by preaching Freethought, a rational approach to religious questions of life, love, meaning, and happiness. Our growing community of freethinkers provides a positive, affirming environment for leading a good life, free of the illogic and intolerance of other religions based on holy books and supernaturalism". Oh wait! You must already know this too, correct? I am sure others here would like to see this for themselves, you know, "free will" and all. " http://firstchurchofatheism.com/ …now don't forget to click on the button that states the following, "Click
HERE
to become ordained today fast and FREE!……well I am not to sure, but I am thinking that that this [retty much sums up the question as to whether or not Atheism is a religion!
Perhaps you should "google" the words "mockery" and "sarcasm". Slamalama ding dong.
I think these people who complain have serious issues with right and wrong and their life and that's why they are offendedby something as nonthreatening and possitive as christianity. GET OVER IT. wrong is right and right is wrong. we are rich but the poorest country on the earth with all the technology for what just so pople consume it on their lusts. You people who get affended get me sick.
Rediculous! Now everyones really gonna die.. No, I hope not, yikes! Pretty Lame , Airforce… Fail. Whatz next ? Outlawing prayers during crashlanding & combat situations??
Explain the positive aspects of religion and show us all the good things it's done over the last six centuries.
So Angela.. you want this to be a christian country ? Which denomination ? If it's going to be a theocracy, like Iran, we want to make sure we have the right one.
Some people are missing the point. The United States of America may not have been founded as a Christian nation, but we were founded as a Godly nation. God has never left us and never well, as long as we recognize Him. Muslims worship God. Jews worship God. We must all defer to the one and only God. We cannot erase Him from our verbiage and expect Him to continue to cover us. We were founded on the principal of freedom of religion. If people want to be atheists, that is their right, but it is not their right to tell us not to worship God.
But it's wrong for the government or any part of it to endorse one belief over everyone elses.
If Americans as well as Christians do not stand for what is good, right, and Holy in the site of God we just as well curl up in a corner some where and allow the prince of the air to have his way……sounds rediculous right! Well, sit back and compromise, make consession that is exactly what we do when we know there is wrong being done and we do nothing to combat it!
It seems funny that they always want to remove God from everything that it stands for, And yet when something bad happens who the first thing they call on is GOD. So if God is good for one thing he should be good in all things.
Are you kidding me. Since when do the atheists have more rights than I do. If they don't like it don't read it. I don't oppose you not believing in God but then again when I tell you to go to "H… you'll think you can't because you don't believe. I hope you have a good party when you all meet there. Give me a break, this country is supposed to be for "ALL THE PEOPLE"!
Hi.. what rights do they have that we don't ?
What I've noticed in this firestorm of controversy is the arrogance of the so-called atheists is simply put, exceeded by their ignorance.
Arrogance is a two way street. Thankfully there's more traffic on your side.
Did you know…that on the day that Obama was inaugurated, the daily TORAH reading in Synagogues all over the world, I think, was from EXODUS 1:8…..
Exodus 1:8 (New King James Version).
8 Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph.
Coincidence?
Obama, from all appearances and actions, does NOT honour the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I got this from Perry Stone by the way….just recently. He was discussing the prophetic meaning of the earthquake in Washington D.C. last August…..
He might give lip service to Israel being our ally, but his actions speak otherwise….. Those who hate and disrespect and come against Israel are really coming against God…… It is the world's rebellion against God and His place in our world…. The world/unsaved have contempt for Israel, America. and Christians.
1 Peter 4:14 (New King James Version).
14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.[a] On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.
My post is in response to what Gladys said about the war on Christianity and I totally agree with what she is saying. I got saved in 1984 and I have been hearing and reading about this ever since, especially through JAY SECULOW, a Messianic believer and brother in YESHUA
You should see the antagonism and mockery and rudeness going on over in YAHOO ANSWERS from many of the atheists. You can almost FEEL the anger and hatred through
their words…..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OOPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
******
CORRECTION….. to above post… I just saw it…. but the one I was referring to who "gives lip service" to ISRAEL is BARACH OBAMA……but by the way I wrote it, it looks like I meant Perry Stone…..and it's NOT…… Please forgive the mistake…. I wasn't thinking about what I was typing, obviously…… so I hope nobody got the wrong impression from the above. I am just glad I caught it….. (I do this a lot….
) God definitely knows that I tend to think or type too fast at times…….
Jeff Tarr, I was with you up til you added "white"…since Jesus was obviously Jewish…also, adding Santa Claus just made me laugh, since "he" is obviously not real, nor ever has been. Other those two glaring mistakes you made, I'm with you.
Other than**
Kimmi Noelle McKnight Sammy Davis Jr was black and Jewish.
David Marcantonio, i know that…and i have no issues with that, either…i am about as anti-racist as they come (my first husband and my kids are mixed). And i adored Sammy Davis, Jr!
Jeff Tarr just comes across as racist..at least that's how it sounded to me…
and when i said that Jesus was Jewish, i meant racially…not religiously, as Sammy Davis, Jr. was….so i'm not quite sure the point you were making there…
Kimmi Noelle McKnight actually Jesus was jewish.. religiously.. what else would he have been ? Christian ???
Kimmi Noelle McKnight – Jesus never existed except as a fictional character.
Richard Notizia OK
OR IF he existed, he would have been jewish
Santa WAS real. He is originally St. Nicholas, the name of a 4th century bishop–Greek, I think–who raised money to give poor women dowries so they could get married. Someone on this post has said that already.
I am asking for all CHRISTIANS to take a stand against all these atheist. They are running this country and the high officials and American people are so stupid for letting it happen. One atheist can get a wild hair and flap their lips and they do nothing about what they're saying or doing.I can't wait until GOD gets ahold of them. GOD forgive me for saying that. Wake up people vote OBAMA out out out and I mean out.
Which God?
I'm curious… How are atheists ruining this country ? How many are in political office making laws, screwing the american people, stealing monies from foreclosure..Should I go on ?
Seems like there's a lot of christians in that mix. Which atheist was it who said he didn't care about poor people and loved firing people ?
David Marcantonio Does matter. Just get Obama out of office! And Eric, they are ruining it by running to this or that judge whining and cry-babying every time they see a reference to God! You want to remover the reference, go to your Congressman or Senator. Since all of you idiots claim to know so much about the Constitution, look it up! That's the way the country is supposed to work!
Mary O'Donnell I've read it numerous times. I think you fail to understand the definition of some of the words and how they're played out. I'm not being arrogant and twisting words and only believing the parts I want to believe. I'm sorry, cherry picking. I've seen too many religious fanatics cherry pick what they want to believe and interpret based on what suits their needs. It's ok to be arrogant and believe what you want to believe. That's ok. The rest of the world will just continue to evolve into something better. Don't worry, since you don't believe in evolution, you'll just be left behind.
Wait, maybe there is a God after reading this: http://i.imgur.com/T7nlS.jpg
Mary O'Donnell " And Eric, they are ruining it by running to this or that judge whining and cry-babying every time they see a reference to God!" – in the government.
David Marcantonio You will know which GOD, when HE comes in the clouds of glory. And by the way do you know JESUS as your savior? Read the BIBLE. Then you can ask which one.
Eric Goberman Now to you. Why do the atheist run to the courts to get GOD, JESUS, out of everything? JESUS, loves you and HE does not want to see you lost. Why knock JESUS, until you give HIM a try. JESUS, went to the cross, what did a atheist do for YOU?
David Marcantonio – I'm not a religious fanatic. I'm not saying all atheists are going to hell or whatever. But the Constitution DOES refer to a Creator/Supreme Being. It does not deny the existence of God! And the courts do not have the authority to do so!
Eric Goberman " The government cannot ban all references to God and still claim to live by the First Amendment. READ it! Nowhere does it say that the government is atheist! And just because some of these stupid judges rule with you doesn't mak you right! It means the judges are stupid!
Linda Williams Not everyone believes in jesus.. including many of the people who wrote the constitution and bill of rights. (no mention of god or jesus in either one of them). No one is knocking god.. this is not a religious debate.
The country is secular- neutral.. all religions welcome which includes people who don't believe in god. Everyone is free to worship who/what/how/where they want. The government is not allowed to prefer any one religion over another AND it is not allowed to stop you from having whatever religious belief you want.
To suggest that jesus loves me really is irrelevant to me. Great rabbi ..not a god. And,lucky for me, I live in a country where I can say that without fear that the government or you can stop me.
I am no more defending atheism than I am preaching christianity.. they are personal choices and I respect them both.
The Air force decided to do the same. respect you, me, and all others by selecting neutrality.
And that is supported by the supreme court.. the men and women who read the constitution and bill of rights and render opinions on what the laws actually mean.
If you want to know what atheists have contributed to you life you can google it. Like many other minorities I think you will find they have contributed far more than you or I have.
You can start with Apple, the internet, and facebook.
Eric Goberman I only believe in the BIBLE and not the internet and so forth because the internet can produce lies same as man. Why don't you read some of George Washington's letters that he wrote. He said, that we needed divine guidance to the colonies. GOD, is our divine counselor. Now I, know that a atheist does not believe in GOD, JESUS, HEAVEN, or HEll, But one day you and ALL atheist will believe and see for yourself when JESUS, splits the Eastern sky open. Read your BIBLE. Do you believe HISTORY? There are other documents that verify the BIBLE, other than the BIBLE. If you are from the University of Florida, you have access to all kinds of historical documents. GO AND READ. Have you read any of these children's books where they went to HEAVEN? Do you think they are lying? Do you have dreams? Where do you think they come from? How do you think that you are formed , born, then die. Do you believe that you have a spirit, soul and a body? Who do you think gave you the spirit, soul. Your Mother and Father gave you the body. And if you have any smart remarks just go get the BIBLE and read it will do you some good. GOD, have mercy upon you in JESUS, name.
Linda Williams How about Jefferson: from his autobiography, where they were discussing changing the preamble to the constitution.
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
The founding fathers had varied religious beliefs. Some were christian, some were deists. Consider. REGARDLESS of the personal belief in tgod or nature or other form of supreme being, their intent was inclusion of all, exclusion of none.
Do you not agree with that goal ?
Linda Williams I do not wish to debate your religion or personal beliefs. They are yours and not for me to condone or criticize. Whether I agree with them or not is not important. Like freedom of speech – I will heartily defend your right to have freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Can you say the same ?
Eric Goberman Would you like to live in a country, that had only marshal law, where each is to his own? But you are enjoying the law in the U.S. that basically came from the 10 commandments? You can believe what you want but you will believe on judgement day. There is one GOD and only one GOD. You need to talk to David Barrett who is an authority on American History and American Government. He will educate you if you want to learn the truth. Thank You Very Much. I'm finished.
Linda Williams Marshall law has nothing to do with the separation church and state. We live in a democratic/constitutional republic.
We are dealing with OUR country..not some military junta on another part of the world.
"But you are enjoying the law in the U.S. that basically came from the 10 commandments"
No.. they didn't.. for if they did then there would be phrases about god and worship and images. Murder, lying, adultery are morals within any society – even those that never heard of the bible. If you have reference they did.. cite it..
Judgement day.. is for me to contemplate for myself.. Live a good life, be moral etc. and that should cover it. I have no fear that my god is a jealous, vindictive, love me or go to hell kind of guy. Live in terror all my life ? No thank you. (and for the record, I do believe in god).
If you mean David Barton he is a self admitted history revisionist whose goal is to rewrite history to the christian perspective. You need to read both sides (as I have)
Please see HIS SITE (walbuilders.com) where he admits he screwed around with us history.. told blatant lies, and conveniently omitted things that weren't to his liking. NOT an atheist site. HIS site.
Here's a commentary: http://candst.tripod.com/boston2.htm
Here's david's attempt to fix his 'mistakes' He got caught.. and he has enough weasel words in this document (that is not easy to find) that he could make a lawyer spin
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=126
Sorry but he's done more damage than good for you. Whatever fair, factual information is available he has made suspect for all of us. Many sites quote him.. better to do more investigation than to read just his stuff.
Linda Williams We don't live in a military junta.. which is NOT each to his own. It's do as the government says- or die.
Cite your source. The 10 commandments are not in our government – there is no required belief in god, idols, etc. The remaining ones are rules in any society that wants to survive and they certainly predate moses.
I have no doubt there's one god.. no argument from me.
Now if you want to discuss David Barton (?) he is a self admitted liar, and history revisionist. Please look at HIS website/ wallbuilders.com and see how he tries to fix what he screwed up:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=126
You might try reading through many more than one site. especially other than barton's works. He is quoted OFTEN.. repetition does not make it true.There is more to US history than he would like you to think.
IF you want to be fair to yourself..look at other websites.. this one is just ONE the shows barton for what he is:
http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9705/quotes.html
Just an aside: this is a nice conversation.. but doesn't change the separation of church and state. Why not search and see what our presidents have said over the last 200 years about it. I thought it pretty interesting.
Eric Goberman Sorry Eric but without GOD in state and church there would not even be a world. If it were'nt for Christians praying for this world it would have ended a long time ago. So don't tell me that GOD is not into church and state. All I can say is that people will open their eyes one day when it's to late. And that is going to be an awful time. So I'll be praying for you and it's been nice talking to you to. May GOD have HIS hand upon you day and night and everything you do. Good luck and God bless.
Linda Williams When GOD is in the state you get IRAN Who will be America's Ayatollah ? You get to wear a burka.. stay in the house, no education, no shopping, no driving.
You really don't pay attention .. your emotions have totally clouded what you are seeing and saying.
God is IN the church. Right where he belongs.
When religion (aka THE CHURCH.. and , mosque, synagogue, whatever) tries to run the government .. you get IRAN. The government does not tell the religious entities of the country how to run their business. AND THEY CANNOT TELL THE GOVERNMENT.
Has your religion blinded you to all facts ? Go ask your preacher what it means or a lawyer and stop spewing nonsense you can't back up.
"t people will open their eyes one day when it's to late" And you will be one of them.. when a religious group runs this country and it isn''t YOUR religion and you are forced to pray in ways that YOU don't like. Can't conceive of that. can't happen to you .
Ask the christians in egypt who's church was blown up. THAT CAN HAPPEN HERE.
But you want GOD in the government..and I don't !
And really, God and i are just fine. don't pray for me.. I don't need god's help. The kids raped by priests do. and those starving all over the world. Pray for them.. Better yet DO SOMETHING FOR THEM
Linda Williams By the way, I know you don't actually look at any thing I post.. sites, quotes because THAT would allow you to think.. and your adherence to religion must forbid thinking for yourself.
BUT TRY to do something for yourself. go to this site and then tell me that there is no separation of church and state. and that all these men are liars and YOU and YOUR FAITH are correct..
http://www.americainprophecy.com/famous-presidential-quotes-separation-church-state.asp
Eric Goberman I'm sorry that you think that I want what Iran wants. You are dead wrong. What I am saying is that ( why is it so wrong to have a cross put up or even mention JESUS name, and people go crazy?) Why are people ,atheist, so offended by HIS name? That is all I'm saying cause all JESUS, did for us is go to that cross and die for our sins. People can take any kind of word and turn it around to fit what they want and they run to the court and sue, to have what they want removed. I'm not asking you to believe GOD, but you do need JESUS. I feel sorry for any body that thinks they can make it on their own. Ask your self a question. Where did you really come from and how have you got enough brains to get where you are today if it was'nt for GOD. JESUS, is coming soon and boy will I be glad to be out of this non believing place. But I will still pray for you anyway.
Eric Goberman I'm sorry that you think that I want what Iran wants. You are dead wrong. What I am saying is that ( why is it so wrong to have a cross put up or even mention JESUS name, and people go crazy?) Why are people ,atheist, so offended by HIS name? That is all I'm saying cause all JESUS, did for us is go to that cross and die for our sins. People can take any kind of word and turn it around to fit what they want and they run to the court and sue, to have what they want removed. I'm not asking you to believe GOD, but you do need JESUS. I feel sorry for any body that thinks they can make it on their own. Ask your self a question. Where did you really come from and how have you got enough brains to get where you are today if it was'nt for GOD. JESUS, is coming soon and boy will I be glad to be out of this non believing place. But I will still pray for you anyway.
Linda Williams "why is it so wrong to have a cross put up" The issue is very restricted. this has nothing to do with what you do on your property, church property, or anywhere else in your life. The issue is strictly what the government can do on gov't property.
Government property belongs to all of us. To put a cross/star of david/crescent or any other symbol that represents one religion would imply the government showing favoritism, endorsement, and telling all others that their religion "doesn't count".
Once again, I respect your right to believe whatever you wish as, I am sure, you respect mine. I would not want my religious symbol(s) on a government building where it could represent that your religion is dismissed and mine is "right".
That's really all this is about. Government staying neutral. Doesn't that seem fair ?
Linda Williams "why is it so wrong to have a cross put up" The issue is very restricted. this has nothing to do with what you do on your property, church property, or anywhere else in your life. The issue is strictly what the government can do on gov't property.
Government property belongs to all of us. To put a cross/star of david/crescent or any other symbol that represents one religion would imply the government showing favoritism, endorsement, and telling all others that their religion "doesn't count".
Once again, I respect your right to believe whatever you wish as, I am sure, you respect mine. I would not want my religious symbol(s) on a government building where it could represent that your religion is dismissed and mine is "right".
That's really all this is about. Government staying neutral. Doesn't that seem fair ?
Eric GobermanIf You think that the government is going to be neutral in anything here lately? I don't think so. Look around you with an open mind and opened eyes. Just take a good look. The government is in everything.
Linda Williams yup.. I know.. one more reason I don't want it in my religion.. OR yours ! I live in the biggest nanny state in the country.. but we don't stop trying to keep it out of our personal lives.
Eric Goberman Can you tell me how that we, people can keep the government out of our personal lives? The government wants to control birth control, abortion, now they have drones that fly to keep and eye on everything. You wait and see the antichrist is about to come into the picture. And if you don't do what he tells you to do, well it's good-by to all of us. Now you can't tell me that the government does'nt have anything to do with everything. It's so sad that people just stand back and let satan do what he wants. And people are so blind. You may not believe what I'm telling you, but it's coming.You can't even get a divorce unless you have an attorney. It is all in the laws. I may not have a BS degree but I do know what is right and wrong. I'm not book smart, I am street smart. I came from hard knocks school. I have had it hard all my life and I have lived through hard times. And I see it is all coming to pass. Now you tell me why that a muslin can go to a Univ. here in the U.S. and then start yelling that the cross offends him? You and I sure don't see eye to eye on certain things, but I will stick to my beliefs as to what should or should'nt be. If it offends someone then let them go somewhere else. No body is stopping them from leaving. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone but why does Americans , have to bend over backwards to please someone that comes on this soil when we have been here since birth and they go to the system because a cross offends them. Give me a break.
Linda Williams Can you tell me how that we, people can keep the government out of our personal lives?
- We keep electing people who "know what;s good for us" We, the people, are responsible for that. Sorta.
- Elect different people !
- Politicans lie to our faces.. they say they will do one thing, then they do another. They vote themselves pay raises – even while we, who work hard everyday, had our salaries cut or frozen. We retire with soc sec and if we're lucky some money in a 401k.. Politicians get their salary for life. And heathcare – for life.
The government wants to control birth control, abortion,
- Obama care want's to make it available for all.. the republicans want to limit the availability (thanks to the catholic church). Which do you prefer ? Making it available is NOT making you take it – no harm to anyone, no rights taken away. Making it unavailable hurts – women have no choice – that takes away rights.
now they have drones that fly to keep and eye on everything.
- I'm in technology. Do I LIKE drones ? NOPE. DO I worry about them .. only in a minor way. If they can prevent another attack on the US by foreign radicals – I like them a lot. I don't see the govt using them to find jaywalkers. If they find major criminals .. I'm all for it. I don't do anything that would merit a drone chasing me all over the place. Besides, they can already find me – credit card, cell phone, whatever. It's not the technology – it's HOW the technology is used.
You wait and see the antichrist is about to come into the picture. And if you don't do what he tells you to do, well it's good-by to all of us. Now you can't tell me that the government does'nt have anything to do with everything.
- not how I see things but that doesn't mean I think all is well. Iran, Al Queda, taliban.. I worry about them and (back to your prior point) if technology and drones can help.. how can I help them ?
You can't even get a divorce unless you have an attorney. It is all in the laws. I may not have a BS degree but I do know what is right and wrong. I'm not book smart, I am street smart.
- you need a lawyer cause politicians are lawyers and they like to make money. There are states where you don't need two lawyers. You can get an arbitrator.. much cheaper and very fair.
- Never knock street smart. Neither of my folks went to college – they learned the hard way – and they were damned smart. But they were book smart too. They educated themselves every day with the news, books, papers. They would have loved the information available on the internet. They didn't hand me life on a platter so I worked and learned too and then I went to college to add to what I already knew.
Now you tell me why that a muslin can go to a Univ. here in the U.S. and then start yelling that the cross offends him?
- They can't.. and don't. Most schools (at least all the public schools/colleges) that I know don't generally have a display of any religious symbols. Not even a chapel. If they do have a chapel it has symbols of all religions – all are welcome to attend.
- If it's a private collge with religious backgrounds, the people who don't like it can pound salt. They signed up knowing it was a religious facility. In your words: They don't like it, leave.
If it offends someone then let them go somewhere else. No body is stopping them from leaving. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone but why does Americans , have to bend over backwards to please someone that comes on this soil when we have been here since birth and they go to the system because a cross offends them. Give me a break.
- Because even people who were born here have different beliefs than you or I do.. and they should feel welcomed in their country…this country. YES the majority are christian.. but we, as a country, were formed to ACCEPT all people.. regardless of race, color, creed, religion, etc. Why should they have to go someplace else ? This is their home too.. and as long as they don't try to make the government make them special then we are all equal.
Linda Williams Can you tell me how that we, people can keep the government out of our personal lives?
- We keep electing people who "know what;s good for us" We, the people, are responsible for that. Sorta.
- Elect different people !
- Politicans lie to our faces.. they say they will do one thing, then they do another. They vote themselves pay raises – even while we, who work hard everyday, had our salaries cut or frozen. We retire with soc sec and if we're lucky some money in a 401k.. Politicians get their salary for life. And heathcare – for life.
The government wants to control birth control, abortion,
- Obama care want's to make it available for all.. the republicans want to limit the availability (thanks to the catholic church). Which do you prefer ? Making it available is NOT making you take it – no harm to anyone, no rights taken away. Making it unavailable hurts – women have no choice – that takes away rights.
now they have drones that fly to keep and eye on everything.
- I'm in technology. Do I LIKE drones ? NOPE. DO I worry about them .. only in a minor way. If they can prevent another attack on the US by foreign radicals – I like them a lot. I don't see the govt using them to find jaywalkers. If they find major criminals .. I'm all for it. I don't do anything that would merit a drone chasing me all over the place. Besides, they can already find me – credit card, cell phone, whatever. It's not the technology – it's HOW the technology is used.
You wait and see the antichrist is about to come into the picture. And if you don't do what he tells you to do, well it's good-by to all of us. Now you can't tell me that the government does'nt have anything to do with everything.
- not how I see things but that doesn't mean I think all is well. Iran, Al Queda, taliban.. I worry about them and (back to your prior point) if technology and drones can help.. how can I help them ?
You can't even get a divorce unless you have an attorney. It is all in the laws. I may not have a BS degree but I do know what is right and wrong. I'm not book smart, I am street smart.
- you need a lawyer cause politicians are lawyers and they like to make money. There are states where you don't need two lawyers. You can get an arbitrator.. much cheaper and very fair.
- Never knock street smart. Neither of my folks went to college – they learned the hard way – and they were damned smart. But they were book smart too. They educated themselves every day with the news, books, papers. They would have loved the information available on the internet. They didn't hand me life on a platter so I worked and learned too and then I went to college to add to what I already knew.
Now you tell me why that a muslin can go to a Univ. here in the U.S. and then start yelling that the cross offends him?
- They can't.. and don't. Most schools (at least all the public schools/colleges) that I know don't generally have a display of any religious symbols. Not even a chapel. If they do have a chapel it has symbols of all religions – all are welcome to attend.
- If it's a private collge with religious backgrounds, the people who don't like it can pound salt. They signed up knowing it was a religious facility. In your words: They don't like it, leave.
If it offends someone then let them go somewhere else. No body is stopping them from leaving. I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone but why does Americans , have to bend over backwards to please someone that comes on this soil when we have been here since birth and they go to the system because a cross offends them. Give me a break.
- Because even people who were born here have different beliefs than you or I do.. and they should feel welcomed in their country…this country. YES the majority are christian.. but we, as a country, were formed to ACCEPT all people.. regardless of race, color, creed, religion, etc. Why should they have to go someplace else ? This is their home too.. and as long as they don't try to make the government make them special then we are all equal.
Linda Williams can you take a look at this and tell me what you think ?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/15/8-facts-prove-the-tea-party-is-ignorant-of-the-u-s-constitution/
this is ONE point of view of … There's the 'government' getting into your business ..and it's the republicans.. the so called christian party..
Maby muslims should go to their own muslim schools, maby they should fly on muslim airlines, where you may get on with any weapon of their choice, maby if they dont like our christian beliefs, then dont come here, they know our wat of life before they come, dont try to change my country into what yours already is.
funny, the majority of Democrats in congress are lawyers. The majority of Republicans in congress are business owners.
The is great news. I have more respect for the Air Force. YAY!
So let's see, prior to this you had no-liitle respect of the military? You know, a fine group of people that risk they're lives every D A M N day of the year. Seeing that you have never served this country along side some of the most brave, honest, respectable, unselfish, and proud men and women of this military that I proudly call MY family is a mighty stupid response from you pertaining the "word" respect. However, as soldiers in this great country proudly reserve your right to the freedom of speech no matter how stupid you sound. Just remember, when your kids grow up, one of they're paths may be serving in the United States military, then think back to your own post noting that you had little respect for your son or daughter before removing "God" from a military patch that you didn't even know existed except through a news article.
^ yawn
Tina Loving I'm seriously bugged by Rhonie. She has her head in the sand on a lot of blatant facts.
Rhonie Messner My turn to say YAY! And I might add that if you are seriously bugged by Rhonie, well, that works in all directions. What blatant facts? What proof have you found that there is no God? So what if Genesis 1-3 did not really happen; that still doesn't disprove God's existence. You need a good theology class!
So what if there is a god; doesn't mean I have to worship it. BTW – I don't believe in any superstition and the includes allah, buddha, jesus, biblegod, thor, or a devil etc.
David – I don't care enough to reply to Rhonie's rant but if you want to knock youself out.
Tina you are a sad..pitiful ..lost soul individual..my prayers are with you my dear……
Mary O'Donnell I'm bugged at the ignorance and the fact that you're still commenting on this. Either way, God is still out of it.
^ yep.
Our country is going to hell in a handbasket! I am a Christian and the atheist offend me! This country was found on Christianity period! If you don't like then get out! These people are turning their backs on God and now God, who has protected our country for all these years is saying "fine" you want me out? Let me turn my back for a few minutes" Guess what happened? 911! We as a nation need to get on our knees and repent and plead with God not to turn his back on us and so many people have now done!
No one is stopping you from dropping to your knees,Candy. There is no god despite your fervent wishes to the contrary. Any event you point to – 9/11 for instance- has a definitive explanation rooted in the real world- and not a supernatural explanation or cause. It seems that common sense is what offends you most.
Richard Notizia You cannot disprove the existence of a God, anymore than I can prove His existence. All you peopl should go get a life! Who made you the national authority and what gives you the right to put YOUR religious/non-religious view the official one?
Mary O'Donnell – You cannot prove the existence of your god because its a fictional contruction- just like ghosts,demons and OTHER gods. I can explain the HOW (primitive imaginations coupled with no knowledge of modern sciences) and the WHY (a need to understand the natural world) of people like yourself insisting on a god.I have no religious views. I leave such nonsense to those unable to think through this simple concept. I merely state the facts and apply common sense- this seems to be upsetting to you but im not here to coddle your feelings.
Mary O'Donnell – You cannot prove the existence of your god because its a fictional contruction- just like ghosts,demons and OTHER gods. I can explain the HOW (primitive imaginations coupled with no knowledge of modern sciences) and the WHY (a need to understand the natural world) of people like yourself insisting on a god.I have no religious views. I leave such nonsense to those unable to think through this simple concept. I merely state the facts and apply common sense- this seems to be upsetting to you but im not here to coddle your feelings.
I am curious as to how many men and women currently serving are claiming to be athiests.
I had a notification that said I had a reply to my comment on here from Ronnie Messner and Eric Goberman but I don't see anything here.
HI Wayne..i put a message at the top. hope you find it
The constitution guarantees freedom OF religion NOT freedom FROM religion. 1st amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Do you see a No reference to religion allowed? Do you see a No mentioning God anywhere? Do you even see a separation of church and state in there? I didn't think so! It says there shall be no law made to establish a religion, NOT the banishment of all religions.
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Doesn't that include NO religion ? Aren't you free FROM gov't intervention of your faith at church, home, in the park ? You have both . freedom OF the religious direction YOU choose, and freedom FROM the gov't or anyone else prohibiting you from doing what you choose.
Eric Goberman Yes, you are free to not practice your religion! But why can't the Air Force, in general, keep God in its logos? How does that force you to be Christian or Jewish or whateverr?
Mary O'Donnell It doesn't force anyone to be christian/jewish whatever. .. it forces them to be (or feel to be) an outsider. Ever been to a synagogue.. or a mosque. Ever been in a neighborhood that is all ethnic, not your ethnicity. Ever been to a country that doesn't speak english and you don't speak their language ?
You have to put yourself in the other person's shoes. How would YOU feel.
Eric Goberman Actually I have visited other churches,synagogues, and foreign countries that don't speak English. I also don't expect them to take down the sign in front of their church or learn English or change their traditions just to please me. I also don't expect the Air force to change it's historical symbol, or the Supreme court to tear the statues of the ten commandments off the wall, or in god we trust off the money, just because I may not like it. I am an american and I respect other americans choice to believe or not believe what they may choose, But I don't believe we should rewrite the entire history of this country because someone may be offended by it.If this country offends you so much there are many other places in the world that you may find more to your liking. Go visit one or two or three and I think you will find that you like it better in the USA.
Michael Caldwell You're the better person.. but you have no empathy
Michael Caldwell you missed the point, Entirely.
I joined the United States Air Force during the Cubian Crisis and served proudly and Honorably and galently in Vietnam and a Disabled Vet because of it AND you will never hear me complain I have urged my Grandson to join his family is both Proud of our service to The United States of America and although we are dying off quickly I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE ANOTHER MARCH ON WASHINGTON by not only Vietman Veterans but other veteran service men and women _ What are you going to tell the families of 53,256 indivuals that are on THE WALL – and you athiests that are pushing this if you don't want to stand by us and those fighting I'm sure they would welcome to stand in front of them. I wanrt evryone to write their congressman/woman and demand that Ombama have the Previous Logo reinstate AND dismiss the current Secretary of The Air Force NOW. And remind them THAT THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND THAT VETERANS VOTE!
Isn't 'equality' one of those things you fought for .. swore to defend: The constitution and the bill of rights..
Why are you looking to tear that down ?
Wayne Debien It isn't easy.. click on the down arrow just above and to the left. select reverse chron order.. then keep opening til you find them!
you missed the point, entirely.
These are only a few quotes below, from our Forefathers, there are many more. They knew and they believed in God, the same as I and the same as millions of Americans do. Atheism is for me not a religion, it is a hell created by needs from people who, for one reason under many, want to be different.
Atheists are thought to be closed-minded because they deny the existence of gods, whereas agnostics appear to be open-minded because they do not know for sure. This is a mistake because atheists do not necessarily deny any gods and may indeed be an atheist because they do not know for sure — in other words, they may be an agnostic as well.
What do they want in a Christian America?
Atheists can believe what they wish , just keep their remarks and their hands away from my Christian God. I am Christian and I believe in my God.
The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." – Thomas Jefferson.
"The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." – Andrew Jackson.
"We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." – James Madison.
"It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." – Patrick Henry.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almight God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor." – George Washington.
Posted for Jay Dee by The Dee Clan.
Your 2nd statement says it all Jay. You believe in god- you cannot produce this superbeing or any real evidence of his existence. This is called a delusion and sharing it with millions of other dupes makes is no more real.
Some where deists, others theists, and others chistian. Their letters and those are wonderful. But please, show me the law that makes this a religious/christian nation.
You've ignored any and all quotes that remind us that this is a secular nation – open to all equally.
Some were deists, others theists, and others chistian. Their letters and those are wonderful. But please, show me the law that makes this a religious/christian nation.
You've ignored any and all quotes that remind us that this is a secular nation – open to all equally.
Eric Goberman There is no such law, and nobody said there was! But since when does putting "God" in an Air Force logos make us Christian?
Mary O'Donnell Does it matter if it's christian/jewish/muslim ? It excludes those who do not call their supreme being god or, perhaps, believe in one. How would you you feel if it had a star of david ? crescent? a pentagram ? They are all religious symbols.
Rather than look at this as a personal attack on christianity (since it isn't), isn't fair to err on the side of "all inclusive" rather than just the majority ?
What if the majority changes, what if you disagree with the majority, are you to be cast as a second class citizen ?
You haven't said this, but others have. "They are taking away my rights" or "They are attacking my religion."
No one's rights have been taken away. If you think so, and you might, which right(s)?
This isn't an attack on anything, it is preserving the law, the1st amendment. I know, arguable, but not to the supreme court. They have ruled over and over that it is the government's role to be neutral in all matters of religion. Neutral IS a good thing, isn't it ? Or do you want special privileges for some religions ?
If they feel the 10 commandments do not belong in a government office then how is this any different.
Mary O'Donnell – Are you claiming that the god in the Air Force logo is something different than the Abrahamic god of the OT? Its a fair assumption in this religiously infected country to see a reference to 'god' as the jealous sociopath deity from the bible.
Look up in the Webster Dictionary or The Encyclopedia Britannica or any other Literature, the definition of an atheist, when you understand the meaning , then be one, when you wish. I use a Bible for the understanding of Christianity, I am Christian…. God Bless America! Posted for Jay Dee by The Dee Clan
Jay Dee is informing you, he has left the discussion. The Dee Clan
These are only a few quotes below, from our Forefathers, there are many more. They knew and they believed in God, the same as I and the same as millions of Americans do. Atheism is for me not a religion, it is a hell created by needs from people who, for one reason under many, want to be different.
Atheists are thought to be closed-minded because they deny the existence of gods, whereas agnostics appear to be open-minded because they do not know for sure. This is a mistake because atheists do not necessarily deny any gods and may indeed be an atheist because they do not know for sure — in other words, they may be an agnostic as well.
What do they want in a Christian America?
Atheists can believe what they wish , just keep their remarks and their hands away from my Christian God. I am Christian and I believe in my God.
The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." – Thomas Jefferson.
"The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." – Andrew Jackson.
"We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." – James Madison.
"It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." – Patrick Henry.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almight God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor." – George Washington.
Posted for Jay Dee by The Dee Clan.
Atheists can believe what they wish, that is a constitutional right from us all. I say it again, the atheist thinking person should keep their remarks about the Christian God and their actions away from my God. I am Christian and I believe in God, I will defend him also. I may be only one, but as long as I stand and live, America is safe from atheism.
The lone christian warrior lol. Short on brain power and filled to the brim with superstition and pre-1st century folklore. Hey Jay? Who do you think actually is better for America? The believer in horseshit that is so sure of his own personal deity that he will commit crimes because of said beliefs- or the atheist who relies on reason,science and common sense?
Actually, atheism is part of america and has been since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island. Don't let facts get in your way. You don't have to like it, you don't have to understand it. Just as atheists don't have to understand or like christianity. But you BOTH have equal rights to practice your philosophy. Just as there are radical christians who blow up doctors, protest at military funerals (Westboro Baptist in case you forgot) there are atheists who wish to fight for their rights – by going to the courts – not by blowing up things.
I'm not an atheist and I don't quite understand their philosophy either but then, I don't have to .. but I will defend your right to your religion and their right to their philosophy. There are no "sides" since we all equal under the law.
As far as keeping to themselves. I think when christians stop trying to get their philosopy into schools (that's part of the government), into pennsylvania "year of the bible" and all sorts of other things where religion is not supposed to be.. then they'll stop.
And please, if christians can 'come on strong to any and all non-christians' then why can't atheists reciprocate. it's really obnoxious to be preached to when asked to stop.
I do have one more comment to make. The discussion was about the word God and atheists complaints and the air force. Not all things written, by each of us, belong here. There are 20 major religions in the world. I respect these religions when mine is also respected. The leader of my religion is God. The only difference, atheism is for me no religion. How sad a life must be, when you have nothing to believe in as to mock the God of others only to have proof no God exists. Evolution says the atheist is wrong. Quote "God is incorporeal, divine, supreme, infinite. Mind, Spirit, Soul, Principle, Life, Truth, Love."
from Mary Baker Eddy Unquote Mary Baker Eddy is the discoverer and founder of Christian Science. In 1879, she founded the Church of Christ, Scientist based on the teachings and healings of Christ Jesus.
God Bless You Mrs. Eddy Posted for Jay Dee by The Dee Clan. He wishes each a nice evening.
I believe with all my heart that the stands that are taken to take the word of God out of our everyday life, is the beginning of the end of mankind. we do this unde rGods laws and his redemption of our sins , and with all reference to God taken away, what does that leave mankind to believe in,? the works of the devil that's what, and the atheiests and the un-believers are trying to dictate to all of us, well let me tell you God is my saviour and my redeemer and will be forever more. they cannot dictate to anyone , unless you permit it. so take a stand against all this devils work.jeff you are a true man of God.
"Beginning of the end of mankind?" Really? That's a bit far-fetched. Mankind existed before Christianity and organized religion and it will after…
yes man existed back in the dark ages as it was called ,if you remembr your history, the the light of the world come in the form of the redeemer JESUS CHRIST, and he was and is the light of the world, taKe that away and mankind will haVe no direction or anything to believe in. and the ten commandments is a good place to start if you are a non-believer.
Maxine Hardy Hammond That is Christianity's idea of history. A lot of other prophets have been known as the "light of the world." Mankind existed before Jesus and will after. No it was not the "Dark Ages." If YOU read history you'll know mankind goes back much farther than that.
NO ONE KNOWS KELLY CALDER, JUST HOW LONG MAN GOES BACK IN OUR WORLD. BUT THE CAVE MEN WERE THE FIRSTMAN AND THEY DID FIND A WAY TO COME SOUTH WHICH IS THE U.S NOW ACROSS THE STEPPES WHICH WAS FROZEN IN ICE AND WHAT WE KNOW AS RUSSIA AND EUROPE.AN MADE HIS WAY DOWN AND THEN MANKIND DEVELOPED INTO WHAT WE RE NOW AFTER MUCH DIVERSION AND ENDURING A VERY BRUTAL WORLD BACK THEN I HAVE READ AND STUDIED A LOT ABOUT EARLY MAN .AND IN COLLEGE WAS WRITING A LENGTHY PAPER ON EARLY MAN THERE WAS NO RELIGION THEN .OF COURSE THAT ANOTHER STORY, EARLY RELIGION. AND NOW WE ARE AT ANOTHER CROSSROADS IT SEEMS.PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, EVEN IF IT THE FARTHEST FROM THE REAL TRUTH.
Retired from the AF in 1996, and now a proud member of the American Legion who's Motto is "for God and Country" to boys in blue stand up and be heard, some change is ok BUT this is not, God is everywhere wether you believe in him or not!
Anybody know the words to The BATTLE HYMN of THE REPUBLIC, look it up and tell me what you see. It is one of many US government references in the AMERICAN PATRIOTS BIBLE NKJV.
For everyone in this thread who says that we are a "Christian nation" you obviously are a product of our failing public school system. I'll give you a short history lesson if you like. Now, gather round children:
The Treaty of Tripoli: of 1796 was submitted to Congress by one of our founding fathers, and sitting presidents: John Adams. It stated…*and I quote*:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
I also hate to rain on your parade, but many of our founding fathers also had a dim view of religion, and christianity:
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." -Thomas Jefferson.
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than thsoe which spring from any other cause. – George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792.
annd…I could go on forever…
This ain't the same Air Force I was in. They are a disgrace and should be very ashamed of themselves!
Did you work at the Rapid Capabilities Office? Were you even aware of such a thing? Did you know that "god" was even in the logo? Before this "article" were you aware? No…then who cares? I don't see how it's "disgraceful" or makes the AF need to be "ashamed."
Another win for intelligent thought. Buh bye religion your time has come and gone.
These non believers offend me I want god put back in our everyday language. I am offended that they do not want us to mention God. I LOVE GOD.
Well it doesn't matter if "non-believers" offend you. We have the right to not believe in a religion (I am not atheist by the way or liberal so don't accuse me of such as others have done on these forums). I choose not to believe in a religion because none of them make sense to me. I believe what I believe – you believe what you want. Did you really know what this organization was in the AF before today OR that they had "god" in their slogan? I doubt you did.
I am a VETERAN AND DEFENDED OUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE IN SOUTH VIETNAM, I PREY THAT GOD WILL DELIVER US THE USA FROM THESE UNFAITHFUL BELIVERS. GOD BLESS AMERICA.
No one has lost their freedoms and it was on some RANDOM Air Force logo for some RANDOM office. Who – cares?
In opposition to the numerous references to the Treaty of Tropoli, I offer the following quotes from our founding fathers. These quotes and many many more can be found on http://www.wallbuilders.com website.
John Adams
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.
John Quincy Adams.
In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
Samuel Adams
I conceive we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world… that the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace.
Elias Boudineaut
Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils…. We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning… in order to open the meeting with prayer.
Congress, 1854
The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus.
Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854.
Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle… In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.
John Dickinson
[Governments] could not give the rights essential to happiness… We claim them from a higher source: from the King of kings, and Lord of all the.
Benjamin Franklin
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.
John Hancock
Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement.
And for all those quotes you can find 10 more quotes from the SAME Founders who denounce religion. It depends on when it was and where they were in their lives. This is NOT a "Christian" nation. If it were intended to be one, they would've written it into the Constitution. They didn't.
Kelly Calder You completely ignore the "Declaration of Independece Kelly. How is it that you can isolate facts and then use them to color the whole of your reality? Any fair person looks at all of the facts.
Kelly Calder And do please stand up to your challenge and provide the 10 quotes in response to my own that I've given if what you say is indeed true.
Kelly Calder And to from a previous article where you defended Muslim women as being advanced. I offer the following videos on Islamic sexuality.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBarnhardt?feature=mhum#p/u/4/aCfbYkXtHuA
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBarnhardt?feature=mhum#p/u/3/6mZPIbz-n_c
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBarnhardt?feature=mhum&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FAnnBarnhardt%3Ffeature%3Dmhum%26oref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.youtube.com%252Fuser%252FAnnBarnhardt%253Ffeature%253Dmhum%23p%2Fu%2F2%2FFEKAuJewbXg#p/u/2/FEKAuJewbXg
part 3 requires you to verify your age
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBarnhardt?feature=mhum&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FAnnBarnhardt%3Ffeature%3Dmhum%26oref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.youtube.com%252Fuser%252FAnnBarnhardt%253Ffeature%253Dmhum%2526oref%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.youtube.com%25252Fuser%25252FAnnBarnhardt%25253Ffeature%25253Dmhum%2523p%252Fu%252F2%252FFEKAuJewbXg#p/u/1/rfqNPJVWzpw
Paula Hall TO answer all three of your ridiculous posts, the Declaration of Independence is a HISTORICAL DOCUMENT – not the law of the land. The only thing that is the law of the land in the US is the CONSTITUTION!!!! I have already posted quotes by the same people you mentioned on other articles. I am not in the mood for this argument right now because I know I'm right. I have better things to do then argue with some lonely old woman.
Kelly Calder So you're not prepared to back up your posts then. But prefer to go the lazy man's route of attacking a personality to win your point.
Paula Hall Yes I am prepared, I just don't feel like looking through my folders to find it. Go play with your cats.
Kelly Calder And let your sort solve the problems of the world. Not hardly Kelly. That would be the biggest mistake I could ever make. As for me and many others we agree with Jeff Ta whose comment is below. "GOD, JESUS CHRIST, BIBLE, MERRY CHRISTMAS, I LOVE, GOD AND JESUS AND SANTA WHO IS A HETEROSEXUAL WHITE CHRISTIAN MALE! I BELIEVE IN GOD AND I AM ATTRACTED TO WOMEN! IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE, I'M GLAD!
Paula Hall Santa is a mythical being based on a real person…the bible is written by men and has been mistranslated and misinterpreted for centuries…Christmas day is not the true date of Jesus' birth and was a tradition stolen from so-called "pagans"…I don't believe in religions' views of god and that's my right and if someone is attracted to the opposite or same gender I don't care. I don't care who someone has sex with – as long as they are two consenting adults not related to each other not my business or the government's. And your point was…
Kelly Calder All I'm asking you to do is to give proof of your stated arguments. If you are too busy right now, this is important enough to be able to wait for your answer. I am very patient (a Christian virtue). If you have enough time to defend your original statements and stay away from Ad Hominum attacking, I would be more than glad to wait and continue this conversation either tomorrow or later in the week. This is the only fair way to argue.
Paula Hall I really don't care – I'm bored with this and now trolling. Once I go back to work on Tues I won't be on FB and worrying about debates with lonely old women. So please just stop commenting on this because I – don't – care. You're not even debating the topic of the article.
Kelly Calder Or maybe you can't defend your arguments Kelly, because they are mythical and don't exist? Hmmm?
Paula Hall You, madam, are not patient. You are a troll. The DoI does indeed reference a god, but not a specific god, and most definitely not the Christian God. It describes a deistic god because that is what the Founding Fathers were: deists, not theists. Kelly Calder does not need to provide you the proof, you can look up the quotes yourself. And pushing for it only goes to prove how much of an internet bully you are. You are quite condescending and witty on the internet; I bet that translates well into the real world.
Paula Hall You, madam, are not patient. You are a troll. The DoI does indeed reference a god, but not a specific god, and most definitely not the Christian God. It describes a deistic god because that is what the Founding Fathers were: deists, not theists. Kelly Calder does not need to provide you the proof, you can look up the quotes yourself. And pushing for it only goes to prove how much of an internet bully you are. You are quite condescending and witty on the internet; I bet that translates well into the real world.
Michael Steven Jellema I know exactly what references Kelly was refering to. Just wanted her to put it on paper so that I could prove that her arguments are mythical. Her sources consist only of quotes after 1950 and not original source documents. And it is indeed Kelly who is the troll as this is a predominently Christian website and she is the one who detracts from all the Christians she talks to. Look up the history of her comments. She even admitted to trolling in her last comment which I deleted from my FaceBook page and it got deleted on the this post too. My comment was in response to her freely admitting she was trolling. So what good would more patience do under those circumstances? Can you answer me that.
Paula Hall It would stop the stupid rivalry you seem to have. It doesn't matter if she has trolled or not. You are doing it now. At least SHE admitted it. Look above: you have about two posts to every one she made. Be a good "Christian" and grow up. What do the quotes of people matter anyway? This is not a Christian nation; it is a nation of religious freedom. And freedom of religion also means freedom FROM it.
Michael Steven Jellema Michael Steven Jellema Stupid. You can't troll if you're a Christian on a Christian website. Ohhhh… You're the ones who declared war on us with viscious lies from mythical sources. What do you want us to do, just hang our heads and say you're right and meekly comply with your dictatorial agendas?
Paula Hall Whatever. Get mad. Be childish. See where that gets you. Have a nice life. Believe whatever you need to sleep at night.
Michael Steven Jellema Thank you.
I didn't even know they had "God" in whatever that emblem was – and I don't know any Air Force people who I used to work with who knew that either. Oh it's from some random office in the Air Force? Who gives a crap? How is this even news?
Without God we are nothing! He is the beating of our hearts! He gives us a free will to do what?
Throw him out of the picture, well God ask us to pray for our enimies and the coals will accumulate on their heads. We are not to take revenge for God it is his vengance he will be the judge. Evil is just collecting souls for the devil right now. Be not afraid for God is there always and forever! PRAY , PRAY , PRAY!
Such a sad move.
God bless you!!! Btw, I really hope we meet a day soon too!!!!!!! I'd love to meet all my friends in Heaven someday. Praying all end up saved, and in the Kingdom of God. <3
Love you!!!!!!!!!
Love you too! We need to pray for each other living and when we pass.
This is a disgrace! God has blessed this country so much and we elect athiests who want to tear it all down and eliminate God from everything.As a veteran of the US Air Force, I am outraged, disgusted and I have a horrible knot in my stomach!