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By Todd Starnes
An Olympia church is considering its legal options after the state of Washington denied its request to hold a baptism ceremony at a park on the grounds of the capitol.
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Officials at Reality Church had wanted to hold a barbecue and baptism last Sunday at Heritage Park. The park, located on the grounds of the state capitol includes a 260-acre man-made lake. Church members had wanted to use a portable baptistery, not the lake.
The Department of General Administration, the state agency that oversees the park, turned down their request stating that the proposed baptism service was a violation of the state constitution.
“We approved their permit for the barbecue but our state constitution does not allow public grounds or funds to be used for religious ceremonies so we got advice from our attorney general’s office and we denied their permit for the baptism,” GA spokesman Steve Valandra told Fox News Radio.
The American Center for Law and Justice filed an appeal with the state on the church’s behalf, but it was denied. ACLJ attorney Jordan Sekulow said the state of Washington is treating Christians like second-class citizens.
“They’re basically saying the barbecue is just fine – but if you can’t baptize anyone,” Sekulow told Fox News Radio. “It’s an outrage.”
“GA (General Administration) is not precluding members of the Reality Church from exercising their First Amendment rights to express their religious beliefs or conducting a baptism ceremony at the church,” wrote acting director Jane Rushford. “However, the use of public property for the performance of religious worship, exercise or instruction is prohibited under the Washington State Constitution.”
Article One of the Washington State Constitution provides that “No public money shall be appropriated or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment.”
Sekulow claims the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from suppressing or excluding speech of private parties. But the state refused to back down.
“So now you’ve got a state saying this is too much religious activity so it’s not really speech anymore,” Sekulow said. “This violates the U.S. Constitution.”
“A baptism ceremony is a form of religious exercise and worship,” Rushford wrote. “And as such it would violate Article one, Section eleven to authorize the use of state property for this purpose.”
The church ultimately held their baptism service at a local YMCA. Sekulow said the state’s decision makes it “uncomfortable for Christians to use the facility in the future.”
“If they open up this property for people to use they can’t ban religious groups from being able to access it and perform something like a baptism,” he said.
He said the church will ultimately decide whether to sue the state but if they do, he predicted it could set a national precedent.
“Who is the state to decide what is worship and what isn’t,” he asked. “The state of Washington has taken the extreme approach to banning religious.”
Valandra said he believes the state is on solid legal ground.
“We feel we’re on good legal ground,” he said. “We have to abide by the state constitution.”
This is clearly unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has said for years that if you allow public access, you cannot forbid religious gatherings. See the numerous cases of school districts trying to restrict access to school facilities for Bible studies and worship services. If you allow public access, you cannot discriminate.
So one is not allowed to pray on the grounds of Washington property because it is "a form of religious exercise and worship"?
If they were Muslim they would get to to do what ever they wonted to
Are you scared of the muslin or God
Complete seperation of church is the way to go.
There is only one true church.
Good!
This is a melting pot of different people from different Lands and different Religions!
It is time these Christians get the message, that in a free Nation it cant be under the Christian Rule!
I seriously don't think Christians were trying to "rule" here. In fact, I don't really think that most of these cases have anything to do with Christians trying to impose their beliefs on anyone else. Were they proposing grabbing random citizens off the public streets and dunking them against their will? Who in the world is trying to put the nation under "Christian rule," as you say? One must be very feeble-minded and weak-willed if the simple personal practice of religion by another is enough to make that person feel "ruled over."
Bet they wouldn't deny a bunch of muslims to bend over and pray at the park… but, opps — they wouldn't have asked for a permit!
All I ever hear is how we are the land of the free and we need to be respectful of other religions etc. WHAT ABOUT THE RELIGION THAT THIS COUNTRY WAS BASED ON!!!! We need to all start standing up for what this country was built on…we also need to take care of our OWN hungry and poor in this country before we span out and help other countries. Im all for helping but we are being violated in our own country…Lets help ourselves people!!!
Finance 101 final exam (also used for Constitutional Law 101).
Q: Exactly how much more money would the state have needed to spend if the church held Baptisms than if the church only held a barbecue and did not hold Baptisms. Show your work.
Separation of Church and State is clearly implied in the Constitution and constitutional lawyers know this; and it has always been upheld by our Supreme Court. Christians were spoiled in the past but now it is time to realize we can't favor a religion and please all religions. The far right is just using this to stir up trouble and it is political propaganda. The far right will continue to push their views on the rest of us until they become their own worst enemy. This political driven obsession with heaven and guns will end up hurting them in the long run. Idol worship is the unforgivable sin. Christians are idolizing guns and religious politics. This is not a God movement. This is a political evil.
WE DON'T IDOLIZE GUNS, WE KEEP OUR FREEDOM WITH THEM AND CHRISTIANS HAVE AS MUCH SAY IN THE USA AS GOVERNMENT AS AN ATHEIST DOES, CHRISTIANS ARE AMERICANS ALSO AND ARE EQUAL UNDER THE CONSTITUTION AS ANYBODY ELSE, NO EXCEPTIONS WERE MADE TO KEEP CHRISTIANS FROM HAVING THEIR FUNCTIONS IN PUBLIC PARKS ETC. (IN THE CONSTITUTION) THEY(CHRISTIANS) PAY THEIR TAXES AND ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE MORE HONEST THAN AN ATHEIST AS THEY(ATHEIST) DON'T ANSWER TO ANYTHING HIGHER THAN THEIR OWN GREEDY, HATEFUL AND SPITEFUL WAYS TOWARDS PEOPLE ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT WORSHIP GOD. ATHEIST, YOUR CONSCIENCE MUST BE BOTHERING YOU BECAUSE GOD IS MAKING YOU FEEL THIS WAY,NOT HIS PEOPLE/FOLLOWERS, WISE UP AND LEAVE THEM ALONE AND THIS GOES FOR THE GOVERNMENT TOO, YOU ATHEIST WILL ANSWER TO GOD FOR YOUR CONDUCT HERE ON EARTH WEATHER YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR NOT, WE ALL HAVE TO DIE AND THEN THE JUDGEMENT OF GOD. ETERNITY IS A LONG LONG TIME, THINK ABOUT IT.FREEDOMRINGS
Hey FreeWillChoice,
You might as well give up. These people have a genetic propensity for a reasoning bias that reliably produces erroneous judgments. They make assumptions that non-theists are all motivated by the same values as themselves. What scares them is that they think that their invented gods will keep believers in check, but atheists have logic, reason, and common sense — something they lack.
There is no language in the Constitution that says we are to have seperation of church and state. The Constitution says Congress shall make no laws establishing religion. There is nothing in this story that indicates establishment of religion. There would be no additional state $$ spent if the church had a baptism service than would have been spent if they had a bar-b-que. This is really pitiful! If a group of Wiccans wanted to go and pray to Mother Earth in the park no-one would say a word. We are supposed to be free to exercise our religious beliefs without governement intrusion in this country, but for some reason that only applies to non christian religions. Some of the taxpayers that fund that park are Christian, some are not, so it seems to me that the use of the park should be open to those that are and those that are not.
Obviously a moron.
First, it's the STATE constitution that applies here, not the federal constitution. The federal constitution has no jurisdiction in this matter on state property.
I assume the church has it's own property, so they are not being denied the right to baptize anyone. I'm sure they do it all the time at church. They are being denied using state property, paid for with state taxpayer dollars, for the specific purpose of holding a religious ceremony. They are free to hold it on city property or federal property if they can get a permit, or on private property if they can get permission.
All you religeous zealots out there who think you have the right to do whatever you want to do whenever or wherever you want to need to get over yourselves .. you don't. The only religious right you have is the right to practice your religion on private property. You have no right to do it on public property unless you can get permission.
If you don't like the the law .. change it. Until then, shut up and deal with reality.
There are only two ways to baptize in our religion. Catholics normally do it in a Church or they have a small font if a Church is big. The other denominations do their best to baptize in a moving water i.e river, or an ocean. Yes, I do agree with Mr. Roland that had this issue been raised by Muslims the authority in Washington would have agreed due to the violent behavior of this community on religion. I personally feel that baptism must be allowed. This Church must be allowed to perform this rite and any related rituals. .This is most important sacrament in Christianity.
As a Christian, you, sir, have my respect. Thank you for acknowledging the right of a Christian (or any other) group to utilize public facilities (using their own expenses, of course, for any religious ceremonies or such that take place), in the very same way that you, yourself, would have that right.
I will, in turn, acknowledge that you are correct that many religious groups use government improperly. For example, I don't have a problem with a public prayer before a Friday night football game at a public school, but if people there have a problem with that, then, folks, it's a public school, and Christians can gather in the stadium or parking lot for a private prayer. Problem is, there are lots of hot-headed "Christians" out there who will rant and rave that it's their right to have that public prayer at a public school. They'll pitch fits and bring in lawyers, and even organize national groups insisting that prayer be forced back into a publicly funded school. These are a great example of people that misuse government for religious purposes. I'm a faithful Christian who raises my kids attending Bible class and worship every Sunday and Bible study on Wednesday nights. Our lifestyle reflects our Christian beliefs. I was raised in the same type of home. Never once, in all my years in public school, did I feel as though I could not offer a prayer before lunch, during a test, or at any other time. Never once was it a problem for a group of us from church to gather for a private devo and prayer on our public school's campus. And, never once did we try to force others to be a part of it, or turn it into a school-wide thing. See, fellow Christians? No one has or ever will be able to take prayer out of school, and reasonable people don't actually want to. I submit that no rational person really cares if you pray or gather a group together to pray, as long as the school as an institution isn't organizing or funding it. They're trying to keep the school/government from favoring one religion over another by publicly allowing one religious group to be endorsed over others, and that is 100% constitutional.